Off Grid Living: Propane Gas
Living partially or totally off-grid-living presents its challenges. If you wish to maintain a standard of living in your home or retreat, and keep a comfort level not too far different from ordinary modern living, then one of your biggest decisions will be choosing what will be your fuel sources for energy. You will need to answer questions like, What will you cook with? How will you refrigerate? Light your home? How will you heat your home? What about energy for appliances, your water-well pump, computer, or everything else that normally ‘plugs in’?
There are many questions for sure, when you consider all of the modern conveniences that make our day-to-day lives easier. I believe that an approach of power diversification is the best one. Having multiple sources of energy will provide you a backup in some areas, and should one energy source be removed, at least you won’t lose ‘all’ of your living conditions.
One source of energy that could play a significant role in an off-grid-living environment is Propane gas. Unlike ‘natural gas’ which is often available in suburban homes from gas lines which are piped underground throughout the area, ‘propane gas’ is stored in stand-alone tanks sitting (or buried) right on your property. The gas is piped into the home and is drawn upon as necessary until the tank needs to be refilled. It’s refilled by a delivery truck, kind of like how an oil truck will deliver home heating oil for your furnace (if you have that type of heating system).
Propane is one of the cleanest burning fuels and burns with no soot and very few sulfur emissions. The gas evaporates quickly at normal temperatures and pressures and is usually supplied in pressurized steel gas cylinders. The most common tank (for typical portable home use) is a 20 pound tank (also sometimes referred to as a 5 gallon tank). This is the kind of portable tank you would find at a Home Depot, Lowes, etc.
Propane tanks also come in larger sizes, designed for more of a permanent installation, and can be installed large enough to keep you supplied for quite a long time. Generally, 500-gallon tanks easily accommodate an average four-bedroom home while 1,000+ gallon tanks can fuel very large homes. Propane can power most types of home appliances that we are accustomed to, so long as the appliance is designed for propane. Propane gas powered appliances include refrigerators, freezers, ranges, cooktops, outdoor grills, room heaters, central heating, water heaters, generators, clothes dryers, and more.
Propane gas is measured and distributed in gallons, pounds and cubic feet, and is usually sold by the pound when dispensed into portable tanks, and sold by the gallon when weighing the tank isn’t feasible.
Propane tanks are typically filled to 80% capacity to leave room for expansion.
1 Gallon of Propane = 27 kWh (Kilowatt Hours) of electricity.
1 Gallon of Propane = 91,600 Btu’s.
1 Gallon of Propane = 4.2 pounds as a liquid at 60-degrees F.
1 Gallon of Propane = 35.97 cubic feet.
1 Pound of Propane = 21,810 Btu’s.
“How long will my portable tank of propane last?” This is easy to figure out if you know the number of pounds of gas that is in your full tank and the btu/hr demand of your burner or other gas appliances. One pound of liquid gas in your tank has 21,600 Btu/hr fuel value.
If you have a typical portable 20# tank, and if you have a typical low pressure burner gas grill, for example that is rated at 40,000 btu/hr maximum output, then you can run that burner at full blast for 10.9 hours:
(20# x 21,810 Btu/# = 436,000 Btu’s in the gas in a 20# tank)
(436,000 Btu ÷ 40,000 Btu/hr = 10.9 hrs)
For off-grid-living, or to be more self-sufficient without relying solely on an electric utility service for most of your energy needs, consider using propane gas and appliances. If you are planning or designing an off-grid-living location or retreat, consider propane as an alternative energy source. As an added benefit, propane gas energy will not ‘go out’ during a storm, etc. since it is located right there on your property. It is also EMP proof (provided your appliances don’t contain electronic circuits). As a side note, I would compliment this energy source with solar power (photovoltaic and direct solar energy design), because propane energy requires the services of that occasional fuel delivery…
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Great writeup!
Most overlooked is usually the easiest. Craigslist one can find the 100# bottles from 75 to 100.00 .
While a lp fridge can run as much as a new high end ( 1500 min for 5.8cf ) however, 2 100# bottles will last just over a year in the northeast, if the fridge is kept in a garage.
Using a combo camp stove with oven, I can cook daily 3 meals, bake bread daily, and use only 3 little greens a week…. Another cheap grab!
Combined with 10 20# bottles you can aquire over time, you have an easy means to support a family well for a year…..
@All; Yes, propane is the way to go, I fully agree. It has a higher calorific value than NG by a factor of three. It is sold by the gallon and NG is sold by the cuft, so sometimes it is hard to make a true comparison with out a LOT of research to figure out which is cheaper. Short story is LPG is cheaper per unit of energy than NG. Also you can get refrigerators that use LPG and with good quality “on demand” LPG HW heaters you can reduce most of your electrical energy usage. Standard tank HWHs probably account for 40% of my gas usage and I will soon change to the “on demand” LPG system and it will probably account for less than 20% of my HW usage and that is a significant usage savings, (actually it should be more like only 10-12% if the mfg’s data is correct). If I had one of the refers I would not use it and save it for when I needed it for refrigeration, but I would have a small one on hand. With any significant grid interruption you can still have HW and a cool drink. Couple this with a PV system of sufficient size and you’re off the grid (mostly) and not subject to it’s whims. Survive well. Enjoy.
How would you determine if your current appliances have the ability to use propane or do you need to purchase a special type of appliance?
@T, yes you need to purchase a special type. Some of the smaller RV recreational-vehicle appliances (refrigerator/freezer) will run on both, but I believe the large ‘home’ units are one or the other. I’m currently on electric, but I plan to be moving again in the not-too-distant future and may ‘need’ to have propane gas due to location. I will be researching this further.
@T in TX; If you are starting with new equipment, it’s easy, just buy LP setup stuff. That’s usually easy for cook tops, but somewhat more difficult for ovens but they are there to be had. If you have a current cook top there should be “orifices” (from the manufacturer) that you can replace in the cook top to convert it to LP from NG. Same for HWHs though for what ever reason ovens are harder to do. May need a service call. I don’t know of any refers that use NG, only LPG. Survive well. Enjoy.
“I would compliment this energy source with solar power (photovoltaic and direct solar energy design), because propane energy requires the services of that occasional fuel delivery…”
How exactly do you switch your propane appliances to electricity when your solar power kicks in?
@Terry, I didn’t mean it in that sense. Although some appliances (I believe only the smaller units meant for RV’s) can switch. My preferred solution to off-grid-living (energy) would be a combination of propane, solar, and wind. I would have one fridge/freezer for propane and another for electric (solar). I would cook with gas as well as a solar oven (when weather permits). I would generate electricity from PV panels and store it in battery banks. I would use direct solar energy to assist with hot water heating. To heat the house, I would use propane in combination with an efficient wood stove. The washing machine would be electric while the dryer would be a combination electric (to spin it) and propane (to fire it). There’s always a washboard and clothes line for backup
The well pump would run on electricity and the house would also be wired for electric from the solar PV system.
@Terry Mock; I fully agree with what Ken says, with one difference. The direct passive solar can be used for “preheating” water for the “on demand” HWHs and thus reducing their cost of use. During the summer or even the spring and autumn, depending on where you live and how much passive solar capacity you have, you can have ALL the hot water you want/need with mostly/all passive solar (you can have 140 degree passive solar HOT WATER in central Canada in the winter, properly built). Conceivably with a 500 gallon LPG tank you could go up to 3 years without a fill IF you have optimized your passive solar HWH/preheat, and you use solar ovens for a lot of cooking when you can, you can DRASTICALLY reduce your energy usage. Also during the summer I use outdoor ovens (other than solar) and wood fired grills for cooking. If you have all these options open to you, you can save a lot of money. Wind is dependent on location and even though I live in a windy state, my personal location is not conducive to wind usage. If you are not in a primo location for wind, don’t waste your money on it, research it well. If you can add wind along with some PVs then so much the better. Survive well. Enjoy
If you already have a NG stove in your house, you don’t need to replace it to switch to propane. You can get a kit to convert it from a hardware store, fairly cheaply (I think the last time I bought one it was only about $12)and install that yourself. It’s basically just another size valve.
One thing to keep in mind for the average household with propane range/ovens is the new ones require electricity to operate. The valves aren’t manual like they used to be. A cheap and reliable alternative is an outdoor grill. We cook on our grill about half the time anyway and we’ve found we use about 25 gal’s a year between the grill and range/oven.
@J in Central Tx; I have a current Kenmore, five burner LP gas cook top and it doesn’t need electricity to work. While it does plug in, that’s only for the ignition. Went and unplugged it and turned on the gas. Gas comes out but there is no click, click, click. But, it lights right up with a match. Now the caveat here is that if there are any digital controls to the cook top, it may not work, but I have not noticed any like that. However, the oven will probably not work without electricity, particularly if it is a built-in and has digital displays. They have to vent (via power) and the controls that turn on the oven (mine, late model Kenmore) and set the temperature don’t work! Tried it. Unplugged it and there is nothing you can do (without a lot of cannibalism of the oven itself) to make the oven work. It would seem that low tech (if a new oven is in your future) would be the way to go. I do agree with you J that you should have alternate and backup methods of cooking though. I keep two LP burners and a large charcoal/wood smoker/grill combo that can be direct cooked on as well as indirect for standing in for an oven. You can never have too many ways of doing something. Survive well. Enjoy.
Thanks for the sit-report on your oven. It’s good to know to keep that in mind (electricity needs) when it comes time to make a decision about an LP cooktop/oven combo, and if one wants the thing to work if the power is out.
To Ken and all others considering living off-grid:
It is me, the former off-grid guy and I wanted to point out several limitations with a propane system prior to the construction of your new off-grid homes.
1. Propane gas does not flow well when the temperature drops. If your propane line is short and well insulated, this is not much of a problem. I was in a cabin that was several hundred feet from the large tank from the main propane tank. I found out about the interuption of propane flow when the pilot light on the propane fridge would go out just about every day. (I don’t remember the temperature back then but I was getting snow during the day and night.)
2. Keep mantle for lanterns and light around and have either matches or lighters on hand.
Hopefully these problems can be solved by a simple design change by somebody out there. Keep your gas tank relatively close and well insulated (along with the fuel lines)
I’m a little new to the propane world, but trying to come up to speed. My question with relation to the temp issues would be this: Can you use a warming blanket/cover/etc or something along those lines like they use on diesel tanks, batteries, and other stuff to regulate the temps? I know for the property I plan on burying the tank and insulating the line(s), but I’m not 100% on how to make all that happen just yet.
Love the article and comments.
Bury both below the frost line. Needing electricity to warm things is less than optimal.
Be well.
While this is kind of OFG, it really can’t be compared to the other sources, unless you have a free propane well of your very own! In most all of the cases though, the propane has be to “delivered” to the customer and that alone makes it a dependant source and and far from really being OTG.
You are correct regarding delivery, however, you could choose to purchase a large tank (e.g. 1,000 gallon) which could get you by for a very long time depending on what you are using propane for, and how big your retreat is. It could last years. If you supplement the fuel with other methods, it will be a good all around solution until such time you need to revert fully back to the cave man…
I had a 500 gallon tank. In hindsight, I would have put in a larger tank. Gives you the ability to stock up when prices are favorable, seasons do matter, if nothing else.
Be well.
@Tango Down; Ken is right about being able to survive for some years with a large tank AND structuring your household such that you use the least amount of LPG that you can. I am in the process of changing to an “on demand” LPG HWH. This will knock my LPG usage down from about 40% of my usage of LPG just to “maintain” my HW, this doesn’t count actually heating it when I run it out. I only run it out 2-3 times a day but it cycles 5-6 times or more a day. I also have LPG cooking and central heat. I have a wood stove that I use for heating with wood as much as I can and only use the heater if there is company or it is just that cold, which isn’t too often. I am upgrading my tank to 500 gallons and I should be able to go 3 years without a fill. Now that’s not OTG but it is certainly the kind of thing that would mitigate the seriousness of “lights out” type scenarios. I also use an electric refer and have looked into getting a small LPG refer for the back up in case the grid is down. Survive well. Enjoy.
Another propane item to think about is a generator. They come in different sizes. It was only myself and I lived in a small trailor off the grid for about 2 years in FL. I bought a 3500W propane generator which ran all my appliances and was comfortable. During the summer months ran a small A/C also. Also seperately, bought an on-demand tankless propane water heater. One #20 tank on the water heater lasted a good 12 months. The generator ran about 35-50 hrs wk on about #20 tank depending on use. Of course, the A/C was a energy hog and being a poorly insulated trailor I did use more. Saying all that, having propane on hand and stored I had one fuel for everything instead of worrying about propane and gasoline.
Food for thought.
Before everyone starts to jump on the propane wagon and yes propane is a way to go but…. has anyone priced the cost of propane now?In some places it’s $3.00 a gallon and for a 20 gallon tank it would cost you $50.00 to fill up.How about a 1,000 gal tank.It would really depend on your usage.I can take a small propane tank 2.5 sold for camping and hooking up to a two burner stove top and make it last a week and a half.
I hope someone can help me with this as I’ve looked everywhere.
I have a 500 gal propane tank that just feeds my furnace and a small ventless heater in my shop. I want to tap into the copper line (size is 3/8) in my shop with a shutoff valve & flexible hose that I can use to supply a small propane burner to cook and boil water with in emergency’s. (I know i can use a #20 tank for this but this is really for shtf scenario)
It would also be nice to be able to fill up those small 16oz propane bottles from this line as well. and the burner be able to accept these small bottles as well as the main supply line from my 500 gal tank. I’ve seen a burner with this ability to do both but had bad reviews of poor quality it was the “Buffalo Tools Single Burner Portable Cast Iron Stove” from amazon to give you an idea.
to do this will i need a pressure regulator to reduce pressure from my 500 gal tank to the small burner?
Can someone with more expertise than myself help me with a parts list for this project? It gets confusing with all the different fittings.
I have the flair tool just need to figure out the parts to make this work.
I would appreciate so much if someone could help me with this.
In an extended state of emergency, it might become difficult to obtain prpoane delivery. But, natural gas might be available, so, would it be wiser to have NG powered or LP?
I would like to know how many pounds of propane is needed to run a hot water heater, stove and oven for a year. For 4 persons. Trying to prep.Thanks. K
I am having a hard time finding a 500gal propane tank for purchase in Central Virginia, and also at a reasonable cost. Does anyone have any contacts for me? I want a new tank, and everything that is required for installing above-ground (pad, regulator, etc etc etc). Help!
Thank you!
Chris