Four Survival Guns
June 29, 2010, Submitted by: Ken TweetPermalink
Owning a gun, or a variety of guns can be a core element to rural survival living. Gun ownership compliments the lifestyle of those who are already living a way of life of self sufficiency. Although I know there are some who are wary of guns, and there are parts of the world where gun ownership is outright banned, owning guns is really just like owning a particular set of tools to compliment the other tools that you have.
I recently received an email from Kent, a reader in Alaska, who already lives a lifestyle where hunting, fishing, gathering, gardening, canning, etc…, is common and simply part of his and his wife’s current way of life. He brought up the notion of how firearms are integral to rural survival living and listed some practical recommendations.
Kent from Alaska writes:
If I had to pick one firearm only, it would be a .22 rifle. Even a good one is inexpensive, as guns go, and so is the ammo. It is good for small game, adequate for home defense and medium game, and in a pinch one could take a deer or even a moose with a well-placed shot.
If I could pick a second, a 12-ga. shotgun (pump action) would be it. It can fire a variety of loads for small, medium, and large game – bird-shot to buckshot/slugs. It is the best home defense weapon there is.
Some might argue that the shotgun should be the first weapon and the .22 the second… but the .22 is more accurate at longer ranges and if your survival depended on taking that marmot way over there, I wouldn’t want a shotgun.
For a third, it’d be a tossup between a revolver and a scoped rifle. It would sort of matter on where one lived. In a rural area, the rifle would be handier for game like pig, deer, antelope, elk, et cetera. As far as general use, it is hard to go wrong with a .30-06 in the lower 48. Here in Alaska, with bigger more-dangerous game to deal with, a .338 or .375 would be the way to go.
In an urban environment, the revolver would probably be handier. A .357 magnum or .41 magnum is excellent for home defense. Don’t go for a little short-barreled pocket gun. Get a nice, solid, 6″-or-better-barreled pistol. With a scope, it can also be used for hunting.
Best bet, get all 4 types…
While fancy semi-automatic weapons with large clips may be popular survival weapons in the movies, simple bolt- or lever-action rifles, pump shotguns, and the ever-reliable revolver are far less likely to jam, mis-fire, or break.
Ken adds: I agree with the set of recommendations, especially regarding the .22 rifle. I own several .22′s. They have many advantages including the fact that they are relatively quiet and won’t widely advertise your position (not always a concern, but it could be). I can still remember the very first time firing one as a kid at summer camp so many years ago, the smell of the powder, oh what fun it was…
Lauren’s comment: Ladies (and Gents), I just had to throw in my two cents about my favorite firearm which has always been my Marlin 880 bolt-action, .22 rifle. Unfortunately I can’t really pinpoint for you why it’s my favorite. Though it was my first gun, that’s not the reason. I’ve always loved a bolt action rifle, not to mention the ease with which I can carry it.
Could this be the list of the top 4 survival guns to own?
1. Glock 19
2. Remington 870
3. Ruger 10/22
4. AR-15
You may find it interesting, educational, and beneficial to read the following very popular book which covers an extremely wide variety of firearm topics, including the book author’s own favorite recommended firearms.
Boston’s Gun Bible
By the way, the author of that book suggests the following (with caveats – you’ll have to read the book)…
Glock 30
Remington 870
M14
Marlin M70
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click here to check out our current homepage articles…
I would not own an AR-15 rifle. Same goes for the semi auto pistol. I have two scoped bolt action rifles in .270 winchester. For defense I use a lever action .357 magnum rifle with matching revolver. I use 2 single shot 20ga shotguns for food gathering. I do own a semi auto .22 and have hunted with it. I like the shotguns better by far. Again, it fits where I live. You don’t need to get fancy. Simple honest firearms that one is familiar with and can use with confidance are more important than a whole closet full of AR-15′s IMHO…
I have a few guns .50 cal online bolt muzzleloader,sks3 30rd mags,2 9mm highpoint 995 carbines new fully dressed 6 clips ,270 remington 2 mags, mosin nagent ,22 rifle scoped10rd mag, 20 gauge , 12 gauge moss berg 590 a 9 shot shotgun, walther p 22 pistol 2 mags, glock .40 5 mags. High point 9mm 2 mags. Plenty of tannerite . I save propane tanks from the scrap yard for the drive way . I try to keep 500 rnds for each gun . What else should I consider getting ?
In a survival situation an AK-47 or similar rifle would be preferred to the AR-15. Love ARs but the need alot of TLC
The AR-15 is the best survival rifle (If you have the money)
My son & I both have AR-15s and have never had a single problem with them. He has an AK-47 and has had continual problems with it.
I have a 380 LCP for concealed carry, a 22 rifle, a Glock 19, a Remington 870 and the AR-15. The AR-15 is by far my favorite gun and my son’s favorite also but, it will not serve the functions best suited to the LCP, the Glock nor the shotgun and you can get an awful lot of 22 ammo for very little money relative to the rest of these guns. I am happy I have all five as they each serve their purpose very well.
An m14 is very versatile, reliable and easy to maintain. I had mine tuned by the guys at http://www.m14.ca. I guess I’d say a custom 22 with heavy barrel, my m14 for hunting, a glock 30sf and a 12ga moss berg, but something with a choke so I can hunt birds.
The AK-47 is the worlds most manufactured (and cloned) rifle in the world bar none. I bought 2 for less money then 1 stock AR would cost. Replaced the stock with plastic to reduce maintenance (no linseed oil). The ammo is common and in-expensive. Magazines are 30 round but, I have 40 rd mags. I can fire 3 shots in the time that you flip a lever. Don’t even subject your AR to my tests (mud pack, sand bath, wash in stream, and snow bank cool off).
Odds are – it is what more of your friends (and enemies) will have (bullets too) – I can use their ammo with my rifle without moving scopes, dots and lasers.
@michael c; First, have you been in the military? I don’t usually, mud pack, sand bath, wash in stream, and snow bank cool off, my AR-15 rifle on purpose, OR ANY OTHER RIFLE I own for that matter. Ha ha. It’s not good for them, even AKs. And yes I own 2 AK 47s but I depend on AR 15s. I have the AKs for S&Gs. Spent many years in the military, over 38 years total, with 11 AD and over 20+ reserve as a combat engineer. I can say with certainty, that I have never had a failure with a properly maintained AR-15A1 or AR-15A2 or M-4, and they’re good for an all day fire fight, if you’ve ever had one. I have never, in my career, had first hand knowledge or experience of the failure of an AR 15A1/A2/M-4 that wasn’t broken. And even AKs break and need maintenance and cleaning, to function and function properly at their best. Let me just ask ONE logistical question. In a full blown, TSHTF situation, grid down, super volcanoes, 9.0 megaquake, large ET object hit, global pandemic, mega-X disaster, how long do you think there will be IMPORTED AMMUNITION? No American manufacturer of ammunition makes ANY significant amount of 7.62×39 ammunition (much less Nagant pistol, rifle or Makarov). IT IS ALL IMPORTED, 99.5% and I’m being generous. How much can you carry? How much do you think you will find on a dead National Guardsman, or in a NG Armory, or a military stockpile? How many AK parts do you think you’ll find? Unless you break in to a special ops unit that uses AKs for some unknown reason, you will not find any! Period. Most farmers have a .30-30, maybe a Ranch Rifle (.223, that sucks that you don’t have an AR, just pack your AK in some mud, sand and snow that’ll help you), some .30-06 or .308 (7.62×51 NATO). Those four rounds make up 96% of the RIFLE ammunition mfg’ed in the U.S., not counting .22 LR. Most major mfg’ers run the other ammo as an ASIDE, after their main ammo runs for the top four. If they can still make ammo in a SHTF situation, what do you think they’re gonna make, 6.5 Swede? After a month or two your AK/SKS (and I like SKSs) becomes a club. My son was an Army Ranger for 6 years before being medically retired, for a wound he received in combat. I asked him if he had heard of anyone having function problems with their ARs and he said, no. I asked him and a number of their cohorts at the Ranger Btn. if they had the choice in combat to pick up an AK or an AR (this was a room of about 20+ combat experienced Rangers) what would they pick up? To a man, it was the AR-15/M4. I could not find anyone that had a modern AR (NOT an AR-15 from 1963, as opposed to an AR-15A1 or an AR-15A2, or M-4)that failed. Your AK is good, as far as it goes in it’s little niche, but you would be better off using, at least a Mini-14, better yet an AR-15A2 and learn how to use it, NOW while you still can. Think about that ammo thing….could be the difference, you know? Survive well. Enjoy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9oITR_KZok
My major problem with an AK is when a typical American sees one they think of a terrorist. So in a post SHTF situation are you going to carry it? What if someone sees you and thinks because of the gun you choose you are the bad guy? Another prepper suggested putting a shmegma in your BOB and went on and on about how useful it is. But like the AK when I see a shmegma I think terrorist. The objective in a bug out situation is to not call attention to yourself. I would think this would be true post SHTF too. I would no more carry a AK after SHTF then I would wear a speedo at a gay pride parade.
In a post SHTF time – anyone who sees you (rifle or not) is probably going to shoot at you. Carrying any “rifle” in the open will get you shot. I really think that the answer here is “hide the guns”.
Be like me, carry the gun CCW style and your rifle (with folding stock) in your sleeping bag. I need to be ready too so I use a 10 round mag which does not stick out.
Many people scoff at the fact that a .22 rifle is viable for anything but shooting small game. However, many people do not realize how deadly that.22 round actualy is.
I am a retired law enforcement officer and I had first hand observations of deaths from .22 rounds. Also, the Isreal army uses the Ruger 10/22 in urban warfare.
A 22 would be my first choice for all the above reasons. The ammo would also be a valuable barter item. An avid sportsman, I own all the weapons above and then some. Should chaos erupt, gangs could end up working together in mass. That’s when you would want that AR by your side.
A .22 by far is the best choice in a shtf situation. In my younger days I was thinking firepower, so I stocked up. An AK, several SKS rifles, and A LOT of ammo. Here in the past couple of years I’ve been re-thinking my strategies. I’ve already got the firearms and ammo. If I’m holed up somewhere then I’m set. Nothing to worry about, 7.62 X 39 all day long. But if I’ve gotta “head to the hills” there’s no way I can pack all of that. Good luck carrying several thousand rounds of 7.62 ammo on foot. On the other hand, it wouldn’t be that much of a problem packing a few thousand rounds of .22 ammo. Plus it’s the most common caliber in the world. Don’t forget about a good sidearm. Other than one in .22 caliber, I would also recommend a .357 mag revolver or a 9mm pistol. Both very common calibers. Don’t forget you can also shoot .38 special out of that .357 mag revolver. Above all else shot placement is the most important. Know your firearm. A few hits with a .22 are worth far more than a hundred misses with a larger caliber. Good luck to everyone, and may God help us all.
A .22 is the most common caliber in the world, and it is the easiest to pack if you gotta hit the road.
Hell you can carry 500 rounds of .22 in ONE pants pocket long as the pants fit right and your belt’s tight!
I think a .22 is fine as long as the other guy isn’t armed with a gun. If he has a higher calibur gun and is firing back, is on drugs, or pumped full of Adrenaline, you might have problems. I certainly do think the .22 is far better than nothing … and there were some really valid points made about being able to carry a lot of the .22 ammo easily, the inexpensive nature of the ammo, and controlability of the firearm, but again, I don’t like my odds with that gun in a combat situation with another armed individual … or in a situation where I need to try to take down big game … good luck! You’ll injur a lot of large animals, but you likely won’t get much home to your freezer without an amazing shot. In terms of rifles, there are a lot of good options out there at a variety of price points. I have a Springfield M1A that I love. It’s a very reliable gun that takes up to 20 round magazines. The .380 ammo will easily take down just about anything that it meets up with. I too have shot .22′s since the days of scout camp many years ago and think they’re a great gun to have on hand. But if I were to only have one rifle in my home for hunting and self defence, it certainly wouldn’t be a .22
I think the Glock 19 is a great handgun. I’ve also been really impressed with the Sprinfield XD and the XDM. They’ve been super reliable and accurate for me.
four survival weapons for the wilderness I would chose is the the .22, a bolt action 300 win mag or 30-06, then a M1911, and then a mossberg 870 12 gauge. Then four survival weapons for the urban environment I would chose is the FN five seven and a tactical 12 gauge shotgun and a AR-15 and a AK with a drum magazine as a light machine gun
I don’t know guys. That’s a hard one. Depends on the situation. Bug in: SKS, 870, cz 527, hi cap 45. Bug out in car: every gun I own. Bug out on foot: cz 527, kel tec sub 2000, 10/22 and Ruger sp101 (357). To me on foot is about getting the most bang for weight carried. AR, sks, ak47, socom ect are just too heavy even without ammo. Shottie? Ditto, unless a single shot. The cz 527 carbine (7.62×39) is a 300 yard gun. Not a sniper but I never claimed to be one and most folks aren’t proficient even at 300 yards. Kel tec close range defense. 10/22 small game and defense. SP101 close defense and can be used for hunting in a pinch. ALSO, never, ever buy a revolver in .38 special. It can only shoot .38s. The same model .357 magnum adds negligible weight or dimensions. .38 only caliber severly limits the guns usefulness.
I have to agree with brad, for the most part. I would think you will be on foot unless you live in the middle of nowhere, or at least i will. I love my Ruger revolvers both sp101 and 100, they go off everytime until the are empty, and taught my girl friend to use them easily. now my 1911 is another matter she can pull the trigger and hit the target but she has a hard time manipulating the the saftys and the mag release and reloading. I also like my marlin .22 mag with a 9 power scope, ammo is still light weight and a little more knock down than a standard .22. I think a small single shot 12 or 20 gauge would be good for gathering small game and deer with slugs, but ammo gets heavy. i think semi auto rifles to be a waste of weight and space, because if you are walking out you probably won’t be able to carry enough ammo to be able to use it to your advantage, so a good scoped rifle that a person is proficient with would be better.
also i wouldn’t have anything with a laser, worst case you may not be able to get batteries then you have to learn how to shoot it without the laser when you may have limited amount of ammo.
I just bought a Remington 870 pump for close range, and now I was looking for another medium range gun for deer or game. I have an AR but that isnt that good for larger game. I was thinking of a marlin 336 lever in 30-30 or an AK. An AK shoots faster but I think the marlin would be better for hunting.
A 22 rifle is a must have. In a mobile situation, a light weight or take down rifle would be best. A nylon 66 or Papoose would be good picks. I have an ar7 which I would not recommend. It is light but at least mine only likes certain ammo. The sights are crude and trigger pull is not on par with the other rifles. The ar 7 has no sling attachments yet one can improvise. Yes it can be packed into its own stock and floats. I have a Thompson Center 22 rifle that is very accurate, dependable and has a quick detach scope. The iron sights are very good. If I was carrying more than one rifle I would choose the nylon 66. It is very light weight and can be scoped and has acceptable iron sights. Again it is a compromise. The nylon 66 is very dependable, loads through the stock so no malfunctioning mags to worry about and seems to shoot various 22 lr. ammo.
If you are by yourself then weight will be an issue especially in a bug out situation. I would probably take my
car 15 as a first choice. I wouldn’t take a sks or m1a because I don’t have one. I do have a M1 garand and carbine which are good in their own right. I also have several 1903s, some with scopes and a m40a1 clone. The car 15 is a compromise between accuracy, power, dependability and weight. The best chance of survival is not being alone. A group offers the capability of fielding several different weapons with different capabilities.
When considering any survival weapon one would be wise to consider threats at night and how to best deal with them. The advantage of the car 15 is that dedicated light and laser systems are easily adaptable to this platform. It is also easy to install a night vision scope on the car 15 that is quick detachable. Those who say they see no need for a laser on your rifle must not have used one. They give you an edge of quickly and accurately engaging targets at close range in low light. I would suggest shooting at night using iron sights and see how you do.
Even though I shot and carried handguns for years, a handgun may not be worth the extra weight in a bug out situation. For a bug in situation a handgun is fine along with a shotgun or m1 carbine or car 15. The 223 with the right loading is probably the least likely to go through numerous walls and kill your neighbors if you miss your intended target,
The downside to the 223 is the reported lack of power with fmj ammo especially at range when the round
goes below 2700 fps. I believe that accuracy can overcome some of this lack of power. I have found with my
car 15 that it had so so accuracy with regular hard ball ammo. With reloads it became a tack driver. Head shots
became duck soup with a scope and geissele trigger even at range.
If I lived in Alaska or remote area I would probably take the m1 garand or 1903 and my model 19 in 357.
In that environment having a more powerful rifle would be a first priority and defense capability second.
History being; a downed barrel changer, dead ammo feeder, and melted 50 barrel, I know the visual of the soles of sandals due to a .45… I know the 22 tops U.S. deaths, must have merit… I like Michael C.”s thought and go for the unmentioned CAR-15… .223, NATO rounds, AK, and others that top the availability list are what you want. 22 in the U.S. is in that list, my Marlin and Whetherby 22′s go with the CAR-15. I’ll take them and a .45 for the get out and run choice… Survive-All…
Info, worth cross reference: “North Carolina Gun Ban During Hurricane Earl” Otter says:
June 26, 2011 at 7:56 AM
Your statements are in line with mine. That there is an antecedence, a primo, or base foundation to statements to follow in the deftly written language presented as a “Bill of Rights”. Please bear with me as this is the truth of the paradox of the writing of laws. This has been picked apart for the use of debate largely in courts as it is in short double talk or written as a compromise and inherently grey or rather imprecise in what seems at first glance straight forward. The foundational system is the organization of legislature to put a Big But.. into Bill as it was in this case the 2nd Amendment. Most people have never looked at or read it so I quote… 2nd Amendment… “A well regulated militia, , being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.” … So there it is. The premise of this statement comes from the antecedence. In this case a well regulated militia… All that follows is subject to that. ” being necessary to the security of a free state “. Here we have No capital letters there could have been a version that had five. The most key being free state; there is no specific out lay of black and white intent, except that it is positioned after the primo statement and hence carries secondary weight. I hope that our intelligentsia, our most capable readership do not need all of the nuances explained form here on out. You get the picture, each comma-no capital letters and diminishing value of merit as this near run on sentence continues… ( free state; not a Free State; or a free State, or a Free state… ) Next in this down play is “the right of the people to keep and bear arms, ” Which people ?, By here we have the third least in value aspect statement saying that a militia, that is a necessary militia, necessary for an ambiguous free state ( Say your state of mind, or free land in some condition or state. ) Are you in this flow? I’m not the anti-gun law persona, any of you that have read “Otter” knows that: so no negative feedback, please just read and learn. The closure a cloture; ” shall not be infringed.” , is of least relevance and is subject to all of the four prior statements with there complete vagaries. Grey areas written in legalese to appease the legislature and therefore gain passage and subsequent ratification. The end all of this is see how portions and placement are why these things can so easily be ignored. They really, really, really, don’t exist in the first place. what we have is a “Republic divided into “States”, that have a Federal “militia” or bringing it home, “Alphabets” ( F.B.I. , S.S., A.T.F, D.E.A. so on… ) and then State Police with their specialists, followed by the least powerful in this pyramid all of the local branches with their different names depending on your location. Them with their versions of S.W.A.T. etc… Well, there it is a 2nd Amendment over-view with it’s none existent right for “The People” to have or bear arms. That’s how so many laws in so many states have created battles 2nd Amendment rights only to fail. The chipping away continues and bottom line this is during times with no extenuating circumstances like martial law. In complacent belief of the deliberate semantics of a diminishing statement gives “The People” the exclusion of the “Right”. That again isn’t my belief system it’s just an edification I hope, you will, having read gleaned why it is that we don’t trust Government to legislate to protect us from ourselves… Survive-All…
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Otter says:
June 26, 2011 at 8:29 AM
Otter’s- P.S.-From prior… ( “what we have is a “Republic divided into “States” , that have a Federal “mIlitia” … ) By this if it wasn’t clear enough I mean the Armed Forces of the U.S… Followed by Federal law enforcement, then State, then Local Law…
Survive-All…
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Here here, take a look at huricane Katrina the militia ie: National Guard, local police were going door to door taking weapons. An elderly woman with a small bore pistol (revolver) was forced to give it up. The Governor gave the police a shoot to kill order. Which did more damage and caused more kaos then good. So if anyone honestly believes that door to door searches are not going to happen you my friend already have a lot to learn about our great government. They want you weak and helpless. Best bet DO NOT let on that you have anything, have secret hiding places ie: such as unseen doors in walls in your home, use weapons only when needed, have food and ammo stored, keep family close and only friends that you can honestly trust, and if someone comes begging for help send them away. If they don’t leave take care of the business at hand. You have to remember in a situation such as Katrina you and you alone are going to have to take care of yourself. As for the weapons I prefer. Of course a 10/22 w/high power scope good for long range. Mossburg 188 pump 12ga NO PLUG 5 in the tube and 1 in the pipe w/a slug barrol and pistol grip, all is easy take down, for good mid range and medium game an M1 Carbine, and a Barreta 9mm PXStormD just in case you need something for close range. And soon to be getting an M1 Garand in 30-06 (not the 30cal. No sence in having 2 rifles with the same caliber). And last but not least enough ammo stored up for all weapons and a good water and food supply. Martial law will be in effect.
That is the liberal LA & NO gov’t at the time for ya. Over here in MS, we were armed and openly carrying.
@ Ken, I am joyous that you are home, with life looking positive and You clearly editing my submissions once again. Thank you and telling All that before you type give your positive juice to our hosts… Survive-All…
thanks-
or if guidelines are broken, regardless of who the commenter is…
also, regarding edits, the only edits i do for anyone are either grammatical on occasion
Hello
I support the 22 first people out there. Just wanted to add, my option used is a single six convertable.
with scope this can put food on my plate from 100 yards. I can up the power to 22wmr and even use
hornadays critical defence ammo.
cons, dificult to conceal, longer reloading time (use a piece of tubing for a straw technique).
second is a break barrel shotgun or duble. I use good quality reloadable shells, as I have an old lee handloader.
I have it in the pack with plenty of primers and powder. In a pinch, I will reload with 7/8-1 oz of any gravel
yes, I may ruin the barrel eventualy, or maybe not. the powder can be used for other things as well, like fire starter.
ccw “belly gun” I have NAA’s black widow in 22 mag. (same ammo as the single six). and am looking at S&W’s 351pd
at 10.5 oz 7 round cyl. and a pocket holster.
also thompson center’s handguns with barrel swaps to fit common ammo I might run across. they even have 410
wonder if I can score doves with that?
thanks for reading, Of coarse my opinion is to avoid conflict and servive. Once all the ar’s and AK’s have anialated each other, I’ll go see if there’s any beer left in there pantry…sorry…”servival bunker”..
P.S. there are no poisonous birds… unless someone makes them that way.
P.S. almost forgot, surviving on foot plan… modified cart (golf dolly or hand truck) to hitch to light pack.
I live in AZ and need water which is heavy and I have a bad back. pelican cases loaded with rations ammo and other servival stuff. tobacco for barter maybe some nice shampoo to barter a womans favor
Interesting comments above. I carried a CZ75 for nearly twenty years while overseas. Used to cast and load my own rounds. Never, ever, had a jam. Now I am retired in the UK that is all a dream. But I do have a .22 AIR rifle! I use it to keep my eye in and also for picking off rats that raid my bird feeder. Will have to try it on rabbits one day.
@Richard111; I have an RWS model 48 in .22 cal. If you use the heavier pellets (18-23gr) and can get 800-1000 fps you’re in the .22 Short/Long range of power. Should work fine on ye olde hare with a solid chest or head shot. Mine will shoot an 18 gr pellet through 3/4″ of hard pine at 30 feet. With the right pellets it will stay in an inch and a half circle at 25 meters (82′). The only problem with the single stroke pistons is that they still make a lot of noise, relatively speaking. Haven’t wanted to dump the money into a pre-charged-pneumatic as they are kind of pricey. Can you guys get the PCPs in the UK?
@ klipsch, I always loved the consistency of the” widow”. In youth; farming; we had the “Eskimo Rifles” .223. They were the B.I.A. hand out rifle for walrus hunting and bear protection. We had .22 “Wasps and Hornet” hand guns, power and precession. After planting, the youngest would have to walk the fields with a .410 to keep the crows from eating seed prior to germination. I have fired closer than a raised grouse and the deal with the .410 was it never took down a crow. Grandfather later in life confided that it was the safest rifle for the age to use and that it was the noise that was the deterrent not the shot. It was a right of passage to be given the .410 and guard the fields. Generally a.308 was the deer rifle, though the .223 was the creator of much venison steak, stew, and burgers. Personally , I’ve always loved that S.&W. .44 special. Not great on ammo status these days it’s mostly home grown as it’s so old school. You aim down range, fire, get kicked by a mule, hear the report, and have time to think, how did I miss that stump I put up on that chopping block. Then in slow motion that bucked log gets hit and goes flying. Well this was supposed to be my Saturday morning .410 critique and it became story time. Hope you are well out there and keep watching the metals going up. If the dow jones starts to crash get your fed. notes in hand and buy physical gold passed into your hand on the spot. If you can’t find gold suppliers willing to sell as they know the system, then get foods and water systems as those retailers generally aren’t in touch with the big picture and how it will come down. Adieux… Survive-All…
Getting the right survival weapon isn’t very hard. First your location/
enviroment, second is your ability to use and handle any weapon and last
is your needs. I live in remote desert area, and my picks are a bolt action
30-06, semi-auto 45 acp, a bolt action 22lr, 12 gauage pump shotgun, and
a semi-auto rifle in a 7.62×39.
Choosing the top four survival guns is dependent on the factors adroitly outlined by Gandyman. Once these are determined it is much easier to make solid selections.
As to the four selected, while I agree that they are all good choices my own personal choices would substitute a 1911 .45 in lieu of the Glock 19, and my AK84/S in lieu of the AR15.While I have owned both of these firearms in the past and agree they are fine guns, I must confess to being an “Old School” type who prefers the substantial feel of a 1911 and the rugged reliability of the simpler AK design to the black and polymer guns. While I also own several hi-cap wonder nines and don’t discount their capabilities, I still believe that the good ‘ol .45 ACP hits harder.
If I were ever to move to Alaska, I would substitute a Ruger Redhawk .44 and a Browning BAR in .338 for the 1911 and AK84/S. Hopefully I could still access my other firearms, but could make due with only these four.
May God bless America and make these choices a moot and strictly fun issue.
Pump 12ga;.22; 1911.45; 30-30. And don’t forget you knife.
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
It amazes me how much bloviation there is when it comes to the Second Amendment. When the “Enumerated Rights” were first created the definition of “militia” was, in it’s simplest terms “all healthy adult males” and of course translated into 21st century PC speak would mean “all non-criminal adults”. It also amazes me how little the English language is understood. The ordinate clause in the SA is “the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed”. The ordinate clause is made up of a noun phrase and a verb phrase, similar to the sentence “Jesus wept”. Jesus is the noun and wept is the verb. Therefore “the right of the people to keep and bear arms” is the noun phrase and “shall not be infringed” is the verb phrase (it is more complicated than that but this simpler explanation entails all of the grammatical essentials). These two clauses make a complete stand-alone sentence and no other combination in the SA does so. The other clause in the SA is SUBordinate and is descriptive in whole as to “why” the ordinate clause is the statement. The phrase “being necessary to the security of a free state” is a phrase that is subordinate to the phrase “A well regulated Militia” because without the clarifying subordinate phrase “A well regulated Militia” has no sensible stand-alone context in the sentence. Therefore the SUBordinate CLAUSE is made up of two phrases “A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free state”, BOTH of which are SUBordinate to the ordinate clause. That is the grammar part and some of the history but there is the etymology of some words as well as jurisprudence. First the contemporary etymology of the word “regulate” used in its 1791 vernacular means “to be well trained” coupled with the aforementioned definition of “militia” and you have “every adult citizen being well trained” which is “necessary to the security of a free state”. Also as to the “state” which would be dependent on circumstances as the “state” can be the community/village, county, State and the Federal State, but in this case is “specifically” the Federal State, although this would be found by courts to be all of the aforementioned “states”. Also the term “the people”, regardless of whether capitalized or not, has been held on ALL occasions, in the purview of the Supreme Court, to mean “individuals and hence individual rights”. So, in context and contemporaneous to the 21st century the SA means “A well trained group of all non-criminal adults, being necessary to the security of a free state (domicile, local area, town, county, state, country, foreign policy) the right of the people (individuals) to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed”. It really is as simple as it seems, you have an individual right to bear arms in most everyday circumstances. Carry, carry often and practice and practice often. NOTE: the National Guard is not the “militia” of the SA, they were not created until 1913. The State Guard (not National Guard) that some states have, like Texas, Virginia and others is also not the “militia”, these would be a “regulated militia” which has a legal definition. You should make no mistake, YOU are the militia. Enjoy!
I think if I were a betting man, I would put my money on, all other things being equal, a person with an AR-15 and Glock 17 versus the lever action and revolver, no contest. Of course, you should always go with what makes you comfortable, but you are at a tactical disadvantage against more modern weapons. I have both, but unless I wanted someone to think I was weak or some other tactical misdirection, I would go for the AR and Glock. If you aren’t familiar with them, I would get the training/experience necessary to be proficient with them. Of course the number one rule in gun fighting, is to have a gun. I am a competitive shooter with a heavy military background. I have never met anyone that shot Glocks competitively that has every had one jam, that’s hundreds of people and potentially millions of rounds. Also, autos get many, many more rounds shot through them than any revolver ever has. Revolvers that have been shot in torture tests do not fare as well as autos. A torture test for a revolver is 5k rounds, one for an auto is 20k. Also, the transition from DA revolver to Glock is nil. If you can put parts together you can fix a Glock. The same cannot be said of a revolver, even if you could get Smith, Colt or Ruger to even sell you the parts. Now, mind you I hate Glocks, and I’m a dyed in the wool 1911 fan, but if you are using the KISS principle, this is as FUBAR-proof as you can get. The same goes for quality ARs. In 38 years of military service I have never had a jam in an M16-A1,A2 or an M-4. Also, if it hasn’t been run over by a tank and you can put parts together you can repair it. Every weapon will fail when neglected, even the apparent super-uber AK 47, I know I’ve seen them fail. OBTW, does anyone know where 98% of all 7.62x39mm ammo is made? (hint; not in this hemisphere) Does anyone know how many U.S. military units use 7.62x39mm? (hint; a number less than 1) Does anyone know how much 7.62x39mm will be imported after TSHTF? (hint; see question two) FYI; TulAmmo’s largest customer country is the U.S. but most of that 500 million rounds is purchased by the military and is direct delivered to Iraq, Afghanistan and other places. There is substantially more commercial and surplus ammo in 5.56x45mm, 7.62x51mm and 9mm in the U.S. than there is 7.62x39mm. If you don’t have thousands of rounds in storage you will have heavy stick. But use what suits your circumstances and yes I also own 2 AKs along with the aforementioned ammo. The worst sound an AK makes is the noise from the muzzle when someone is shooting at you. The best sound an M-4 makes is when the AK stops making noise! Me 17, them 0. And just for fun, the worst sound that an M-4 makes, just to be fair to the AK, is a very loud…..click…quickly followed by Oh s*** LOL. Food for thought.
TripodXL, great sentiments! In words the power of the US constitution is a document that empowers, and safeguards the rights of, the people it was written to protect – both in the present and for the future.
Unfortunately it is only words.
The Prime Minister of the United Kingdom of Great Britain has in the not to distant past appeared on national television to inform the ignorant populace of these benighted isles that the United Kingdom does not have a constitution.
This is how dumbed down the population have become – how unaware of their rights under the law they are.
The Magna Carta and The Bill of Rights 1688/89 are the constitutional law of this land and the foundation upon which all of our common law is based. The Bill of Rights 1688/89 is the document upon which the US constitution is based, however the ‘Rights’ thus granted are more powerful.
Your fifth amendment ‘without due process of law’ (so they just change the law and thus with due process of law…) appears in the constitution of the UK as ‘without conviction’ – in other words the punitive on-the-spot-fines levied by our Police Farce are illegal ‘without conviction’ as are the procedures of our Child Support Agency (which cares naught for the child and only for the coffers of the chancellor) etc… etc…
How the populations of our respective countries are intended to enforce their ‘rights’ is beyond me, it seems clear that the US constitution grows more ethereal by the day; while that of the UK has already been erased from the minds of the people it was created to protect.
@ TripodXL, Yes generational and cross pond descent brought forth the growth of the colonies and the amalgamation of peoples and processes that led to the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution, and then the Bill Of Rights… However not being a witness first hand I can’t list all of the patriots that had influence in the writing of the Constitution but, I can make one very real and historic comment. ( Yes, history is written by the victors yet I speak of histories of more than one nation. ) The U.S. Constitution was largely Jefferson’s who took the alliance of the Iroquois Confederacy and copied it to create the Constitution virtually verbatim. Do like your posts, great input that needs to be assimilated for the awakening. Survive-All…
@ TripodXl, We are on the same side and I would guess you have some grammatical schooling. However, the run on sentence that is the second amendment has 4 comas and no inserted capital letters mid-sentence. Doubtless while standing on the same side of the firing line I still see how the way it was written has led to so many gun laws and Supreme Court Decisions. I don’t believe it was their intent to have it ripped a new one in the future, but I have to stand by my post of June 28th. Keep them coming you are needed… Thanks. Survive-All…
@Otter Yeah, the way we have been taught in school is that it is, as you say, “a run on sentence…et al”. But, we in modern times do not have as much appreciation for the art of language and it’s rolling beauty as our forebears had. The problem is that it wasn’t written in Latin. Instead it was written in the King’s English as opposed to the malleable and evolving “hobo stew” that we Americans call English, which as time has passed has changed significantly. One would think that the learned (politically appointed) judiciary would be intellectually honest and admit this, instead of nitpick (interesting word) a fairly simple sentence. All I was trying to show is that there is a simple core sentence, of which there should be no confusion, and that if contemporary definitions for the words “regulated” and “militia” were substituted, it would make a fairly easy to understand sentence, particularly in light of what the phrase “the people” has been taken to mean in American jurisprudence. Yep, same side of the firing line. If you enjoy fine language, you might try reading Don Quixote. The original English translation is probably the most masterful English text ever written, including Shakespeare. It is the second most printed book, in English, after the Bible. Enjoy.
I agree with the authors statement on pistols. A good 357 is usable by all, can be hunted with and if it does not go on the first try you just try again. no smokestack or jams.
Saw this and had to add my comment to the other 41. A friend and I were having this discussion the other day, and came up with virtually the exact same guns in the same order, with the exception of the mossberg 500 instead of the 870…
Cheers!
This is a subject the Wife and I have talked and researched to death I think. I should say that we have developed a plan to take our last stand at our rural property and these choices do not represent a bug out scenario. As such we have settled on the following.
I carry a Glock 17 and the wife a Glock 19. The Glock is not my favourite handgun but it seems to shoot anything I load in it and I have found it to be very very reliable so we chose it. The choice of 9MM is due to the abundance of this NATO approved round. While we carry 2 different models the magazines are interchangeable should we end up in a firefight (God forbid) we can use each others. I also carry a 357 Ruger snubnose revolver (police service six) on my ankle, it has been my backup gun for years so I am used to it though I would not suggest someone who is not used to carrying a backup revolver on their ankle try carrying around that extra weight. Cost $1100 new and perhaps as low as $800 used.
We have 2 shotguns. A Mossberg 500 and a Saiga 12 gauge. The Mossberg has both the tactical and traditional hunting stock. The Mossberg was purchased with a budget in mind, you can get these for quite cheap however you get what you pay for keep that in mind. The choice of this shotgun was both defence and hunting. As for the Saiga it is simple the most terrifying gun I can imagine in a firefight. It will fire slugs as fast as you can pull the trigger and large capacity magazines are available. I suppose it could be used for bird hunting but really that’s not what we have in mind for it. Mossberg cost $500 new $350 at the pawn shops. Saiga cost $600 new, very rare used.
We also have a Ruger 10/22. It is mainly a varmint rifle (bunnies are yummy). However as said before a head shot with a 22 is nothing to sneeze at should it be needed for that purpose. Cost new $300, don’t waste your time buying used at this price.
Finally we chose a Ruger mini 14 in 223 with both tactical and traditional hunting stocks for it as it is both a self defence and a hunting choice. While not the best caliber for big game it does the job quite nicely on our abundant and annoying mule deer. High capacity magazines are available and affordable. The 223 round is affordable and abundant also. Finances were a contributing factor in this choice of rifle. We are consider a 2nd rifle as the budget allows but have not settled on anything yet. I am leaning to a Ruger gunsite scout in 308 for hunting larger game. With a good quality scope this gun is a formidable survival rifle for sniper applications as well as large game hunting. Have I mentioned the Grizzly problem where I live? Problem solved in my opinion. Mini 14 cost $700, used $500. Gunsight scout $750, used very rare.
Total cost of our armoury between $3450 and $4000. Gun shows and shopping around might bring that price down closer to $3000. So far we have spent just over $2000 but have not found the Gunsight scout at a bargain yet.
We put many hours of research and thinking into these choices and still occasional argue with ourselves but it is what we have settled on. Luckily the gun safe is large and alternates are frequently in stock but these essential firearms are not ever traded or sold. They are the ones we will take our stand with if the SHTF (God forbid).
@MR; Just gonna go out on a limb here and say you live in the NW. The prices you mention sound awfully high. Are you talking about two guns each? A new Mossberg where I live is $300 dollars for an 8 shot Model 500 riot gun. Now I don’t know what an extra barrel with choke costs, maybe that is where I’m lost. If a Mini-14 costs $700, then an AR-15 would be better as magazines are cheaper and parts are easier to come by and easier to install. The price for the Glock or 357 Ruger snubby you quote at $1100/800. Is that for the revolver or the Glock and is that for one or two? Glocks here are in the $475-600 range depending on the version (gen 3 or gen 4) and model number, and Rugers….well nobody buys revolvers. If I was going to have a backup, it would be in the same caliber for ease of logistics. You also quote $300 for a 10-22, we get them at Academy sports for $189.95. If that is for two that is a steal, if it’s for one, well….. If you want a .308, then you might try a Savage. You cannot, absolutely cannot buy a more accurate rifle for this amount of money. I have a Savage Model 10 FP in .308 that shoots Sub-1/2″ groups consistently. I had a Savage Model 110 in .30-06 that shot 3/4″ groups consistently. I have never heard of anyone complaining of Savage accuracy, ever. It may not be as pretty as a Rem. or a Win., but it out performs them at a lower price point. You can get a Savage Model 10 FP AND a scope for the $600+ you would pay for something else, plus you will have a longer barrel than the scout, hence better long range accuracy. Anyway help un-confuse me over these prices. Good survival.
Thanks for the reply Tripod. Actually the prices were off the top of my head and as I own all the firearms in question I was not researching them. I have actually changed my shotgun choice since this writing and bought a Remington 870. So here’s my complete corrected list of prices;
Glock 19 New $475 Used $400
Glock 17 New $475 Used $400
Remington 870 New $320 Used $250
Saiga-12 New $550 Used $450
Ruger 10/22 New $200 Used $100
Ruger Mini 14 New $650 Used $500
Ruger Gunsite Scout New $750 Used N/A
Ok so my totals are New $3420 Used $2850
As for the Ruger snubnose I carry I already owned it and have carried it for almost 20 years as my backup firearm. I mention it only because I do plan to use it.
As for your choice of the Savage 10FP it simply is not my gun of choice. The choice of the Gunsite Scout (I have purchased one now) is just a superior firearm in so many ways. It is a different purpose firearm than the Savage however so it is not entirely fair for me to compare it but I will anyway. The Scout is a pound and a half lighter and can carry up to 10 rounds as opposed to the Savage which carries 4 as far as I know. Savages have just never been my choice, I just don’t care for their reliability. The extractors on them drive gunsmiths crazy. That said if it is your choice of firearm and you like that is what matters. If you were standing next to me when the SHTF I want you to have your Savage not a Ruger because you like it, you are comfortable with it, and most importantly, it looks like you are deadly with it. There are many choices of firearms for all of us but I will say that the most important thing is that you are comfortable and good with it. I could care less what firearm you carry if we’re back to back. I just want you to be good with it because that’s what matters.
Most SHTF cases will be over in 3 days. Your BOB will get you through it. Add a .357 magnum revolver with good sights and 6 inch barrel for self defense. You won’t need anything else.
In a true survival scenario (long term SHTF case), you have to think about the situations you would find yourself in, then think about the most common (multi use) tools to resolve issues on a “good enough” basis. When it comes to SD and food gathering (hunting), there are only a few situations.
Case 1: Someone wants to harm you. He will harm you. Because he planned to harm you. If he is going to get you with a trap of some sort, no weapon will help you. If he is going to get you using a rifle, you won’t even know what hit you (if he knows what he is doing). So, in that case, there isn’t much that could help you. Don’t be a target. Low profile. Hide as much as possible. Be a snow leopard. Scout your path. Don’t stay next to common gathering places. Don’t show yourself unless you want to show yourself.
Case 2: Someone wants to harm you but he didn’t have time to plan. Carry a good revolver, .357 magnum; 6 inch barrel; add good sights on it; will be also a good choice for medium game if you are close enough. Also most GSW in urban settings happen in 20 to 25 feet distance. A good .357 magnum revolver is all you need.
Case 3: You want to harm someone (to get they stuff or get them before they get you). Depends on your environment, but you better be able to reach him before he has a chance to reach you. Get a scout rifle (with iron sights as backup). Savage Scout .308. Best choice. Make sure you use scout sights. I would go with a Leupold FX-II 2.5x28mm IER Scout riflescope on that Savage Scout .308. This is also your primacy medium to large hunting rifle (if you need to use a rifle to hunt). Forget about LRH rifles sniper stuff et cetera. Your target is not sitting around at 1 miles distance in the open. Unless you are in some mountainous area, you really won’t need it. The only advantage of a .300 win mag or a 7 mm mag or a .338 LM is that you can reach him before he can reach you. But if you are not stationary and he is not stationary, then it makes no difference. You will be in less than 600 meter range, so a .308 is just as effective (maybe not as flat shooting). But your .308 will last you far longer, and the round is the most popular one in its class.
Case 4: There is lots of heat around and you need to go thorough it. Shotgun. Pump action. 12 ga. Ability to handle any load. I would go with a Remington 887 Nitro Mag (with turkey barrel 22 inches). This is also good enough for most hunting needs.
Case 5: You want to hunt. I would bank on my recurve take down bow. 60#. Won’t run out of arrows that easily. Traps are good. Fishing gear. Again, very light. If you are skilled enough, you can get anything with that set up. Now, in a survival situation, you are competing with someone else who wants to get your game. And so, there you have your .308 and your shotgun and your .357 revolver as backup.
Case 6: Long term out of other ammunition and need to get small to medium sized game down. .22 LR. A must have in survival situation. Simply because it is a must. AR-7. Just leave it in the backpack. Or maybe a Kel-Tec SU-22. It is a take down. Have it with some 300+ rounds just in case you run out of everything else. Frankly, I would just keep a Ruger Mark III Hunter pistol. But you never know how bad things get, and you may need the extra barrel length for getting that medium sized deer down with that well placed shot. I would stick with the Ruger Mark III Hunter pistol.
Case 7: You are going to be in a urban area where you will be engaging others who want your stuff. You need a serious enough semi. Go with a Kel Tec SU-16. This could also be a good hunting rifle for up to 200 meter for medium game. You can add any
Case 8: Close and personal. Make sure you have a WASP Injector Knife. Also, pepper spray and/or other forms of repellents.
But your most important weapon is your body. Make sure you see your dentist on time and keep things clean. Nails. Keep it all clean. One small problem, and your chances are reduced a few folds. Stay fit. Understand your environment. Learn various survival techniques. Learn how to conserve your energy. Stay fit. And remember, we are pack animals. You won’t be able to survive alone. So, improve your social skills. Learn how to do fix things, build things, grow things. Learn how to interpret multiple inputs before making decision. Think how to think on your feet. Get lost and find yourself again. Kill something. I mean it. Go hunting. Kill a deer. Cut its head off. Skin it. Learn how to clean it up using little water. Learn about traps. Learn first air. Learn not to panic. Your mind and body are your most potent weapons. All that ammunition and weapons won’t help you if you can’t use it effectively.
So, here is the summary:
.357 magnum revolver 6” barrel [ 2 lbs ]
.308 Savage Scout rifle w/ Leupold FX-II 2.5x28mm IER Scout riflescope [ 7 lbs ]
— OR –
.223 Kel Tec SU-16 w/ Leupold FX-II 2.5x28mm IER Scout riflescope (if you are in a mostly urban environment and a long rifle is just not something you want to carry around) [ 7 lbs ].
.22 LR pistol Ruger Mark III Hunter [ 1 lbs ]
12 ga Remington 887 Nitro Mag (with turkey barrel 22 inches) [ 7 lbs ]
So, this comes to 17 lbs in firearms alone. Add the rounds for them, and you have 30 lbs. Add water (10 liters at all times for safety = 20+ lbs) and whatever else you have in your backpack, and you are at near 70 lbs. You can carry 35% of your target weight if you are fit (unless you go sheep hunting, which is then 20% to 30% if you are really fit). My target fit weight is 165 lbs. That means I can carry 60 lbs safely on long distances and not harm my knees et cetera. So, then the 70 lbs is a bit over the limit, but this being a SHTF situation, I won’t be running around in the mountains. So, I should be OK.
Some solid good advice here. You have approached the question with different scenarios that are well thought out. We plan to make our last stand at our home but lately have considered the “We have to get out of here” option. Your post has helped us start designing for that option. Thanks for the post.
To Ken and all the readers of this blog:
This was a fun blog simply to read the comments to the original article. I hesitate to send this blog in because I remember that the biggest cause of arguements within a gunshop or sporting goods store is to talk about weapons selection when/if the SHTF. Gun nuts are the most opinionated group of people I have met and I am one of them myself. I have submitted one blog that you all may have read already on living without power long ago. In that article, I mentioned what I used and some of my recent upgrades.
My wife and friends have told me I should write a book or article based on the animal control work I did those many years ago. (about the same time I was living off-grid) I did some of this work on a professional basis as part of my job description as a government worker. Most of this work was done on an informal basis to do favors to ranchers to gain access to hunting private land or through short-term contracts through cities and municipalities.
Nuisance animal control is a hush-hush subject in that NO government agency likes to admit that they use lethal means because it is BAD for public relations. A high premium was placed on safety, stealth and finally…effectiveness. Anybody who does this work will understand the need for secrecy. I have already had my truck vandalized by animal rights activists who located us due to unauthorized press releases.
Anyway, My thoughts on weapons for the taking of various game animals and current upgrades:
(1) The .22 rifle: a must have in that ammo is available on all continents and it does a good job in putting down critters if placed properly and hollow points are used. These days in North America, I have replaced a lot of my small game shooting with the new .17 HMR. It has better terminal effects and the animal does not crawl off and die in its hole. The .17 HMR also does not have the ricochet problem. The bullet will destroy itself within a gallon jug of water. But, fact is way back when, the times I shot various small game within my area, I used a .22 long rifle. The 17 HMR was not even invented yet. Bottom line: .22 long rifle because it is almost universally available. I hunted with CCI minimag hollow points and tried for head shots if I was hunting for meat or bounty.
(2) The .17 HMR (Hornady Magnum Rimfire) is a recent invention that is rapidly gaining popularity. The rifles give you slightly better range than the 22 LR and the 17 grain Hornady Bullet will destroy itself within the target. I have used the 17 HMR to remove mid-sized canines from within suburbs and it works quite well. No collateral damage reports were filed afterwards. The bullets came apart within the chest cavity without exiting. Now becoming widely available in the US, it is a round designed for prairie dogs but it is a very efficient cartridge that kills out of proportion to its size.
(3) The .223 Remington in a Bolt-action rifle. This is the workhorse in animal control around cities and airports. A lightweight, frangible bullet placed in the chest cavity will put down deer-sized animals without exiting. I reload the Barnes Varmint Grenade in California (lead free zone), Nosler ballistic tips in 50 grain, Hornady V-Max in 50 grain and the Hornady SX (Super-explosive) bullets long ago. All have been used with good success in the past and I still use them today.
(4) The 30-06 using 150 grain Nosler Partitions in reloaded cases/bolt-action rifle. I have used this rifle for rogue black bears and feral pigs within California prior to the lead-free law. It works and it is also widely available. If you gun-nuts wonder why I chose such a plain-jane caliber, The answer is I found a bunch of used rifles at the gun shops and estate sales. Apparently, todays hunters want something faster, sexier or more modern. (hence the numerous trade-ins.) Before you drop a lot of money on the latest magnum out there, I would like to remind the hunters out there that this 100+ year-old cartridge still works just fine and you can find ammo for it in a lot of places. Do not be surprised to see the clerk yawn as they ring up your box of shells.
(5) As a side-note to gun-control laws: doesn’t the 30-06 rifle and the 1911 handgun qualify as historical pieces these days? (both of them being 100 or more years old)
Shotguns are a whole different catagory and could be addressed within a book. Maybe next time.
Off topic a bit…was wondering if anyone could recommend a pair of hearing protection sets that have the acoustical option so you can hear when there is not a loud percussion? Something slimline if possible.
To Lynn:
I happen to have my Midway-USA catalog beside my computor (Master catalog #34) On pages129-131 has a variety of electronic hearing protectors/enhancers. The muffs are affordable starting at about $30 and upward. (up to $200) The inside-the ear plugs are anywhere from $80 to $400.
You do bring up a very good point in that all of us who have shot a lot over the years have some hearing loss. (my own is a 20% loss of high frequency bilateral loss.) I suspect most of mine was due to the many group hunts with shotguns and dogs over fields in my younger years.
The brand I use when I was a rangemaster and now that I continue to help others at sight-in service is Peltor brand products. I have had good luck with their stuff over the years. In the field, on varmint shoots, I use plugs made of foam.
For those days I am beside people firing 300 mags and bigger with muzzlebrakes, I use both plugs, ear muffs, shooting glasses and I find myself leaving within 30 min or less. The concussion will give you a nasty headache that even Excedrin will not be able to fix. I would rather go eat lunch and wait for the big-boomers to vacate the shooting benches.
If I could only have one weapon for SHTF, it would be a 10-22 with a 16″ integrally suppressed barrel from Tactical Solutions, a Kidd trigger, an NDS Picatinny rail with integral iron sights, an Aimpoint and a paracord sling. Light, accurate, and very quiet if you need to stay ‘under the radar’.
If I could add a second, it would be a Kahr P9 9mm pistol. Light and comfortable enough to have on all the time, and so discrete that it doesn’t attract any attention.
Third would be an AR-15 with a 16″ barrel, a collapsing stock and an ACOG. It’ll get the job done on anything up to deer, and I can’t think of anything better for home defense. Greater magazine capacity and range than a shotgun, and less risk of misses and over-penetration with the right ammunition.
The problem with shotguns as survival weapons is that the ammunition weighs more than the animals you are likely to bag with them.
We all tend to have Walter Mitty fantasies about grizzlies and moose, but unless you live in rural Alaska or British Columbia, a big-bore rifle is just dead weight in a survival situation. I love hunting with my old Sako .308 and Marlin .45-70, but if SHTF, they’ll be staying home in the safe.
If .22 is adequate, why not just get an air rifle? Some are as powerful if not more powerful. You don’t have to reload ammo or stock up on black powder. Just cast your bullet in .177 or .22 and you are done. I have seen some online videos of big game hunt with air rifles. Just a thought…
@BSS; While you can find HIGH velocity .22 air rifles, typically the higher in velocity you go the less accurate they are, the pre-charged pneumatics (PCPs) that have these velocities are VERY expensive at 5-8X the price of a .22 rifle or more. The most accurate .22 air rifles are the single-stroke spring-piston (SSSPs) air rifles at about 4x the price of a .22 cal rifle, but they do not have the velocity to surpass the foot-pounds of energy of the standard .22 rimfire round. The heaviest .22 pellet that I have found over the years was 28 grains @ 950 fps at (SSSPs normal velocity) about 20-30 foot-pounds of muzzle energy. The .22 rimfire cartridge is 40 gr. @ 1040 fps for about 100+ foot-pounds of energy. The premise that an air rifle, while useful, can replace the actual .22 cal firearm is just incorrect as you have neither the power nor the rapidity of fire (even with a bolt action) of a .22 cal firearm (rifle). The air rifle has its place but only after you have acquired the firearms first, IMHO.
@BSS; After further thought, I just wanted to reiterate that an air rifle DOES have its place for hunting small game up to medium canine size (with proper shot placement) and CHEAP rifle practice. In a pinch it could even be used for self defense in very rare and constrained circumstances. You can hunt small game with a significantly lower noise signature that would be very useful in the suburban environment for sure and other places in all probability. I do not know of anyone that makes (not saying they don’t) casting moulds for pellets. Pellets are made of 100%, DEAD SOFT lead. If they are not they will not perform correctly. The best way to actually make them is by swaging (sounds like staging). You would need some lead “wire” of appropriate size and a press to swage the wire into .22 pellets. You can check this out on the internet. Also do not use a .177 caliber for this as it just does not have the muzzle energy to be effective in any role, go with .22 (.25 is hard to come by). Again, unless your circumstances are very odd (and only you know) you should get a .22 cal firearm rifle FIRST, IMHO. Expect to pay $400-500 for a QUALITY SSSP air rifle. You will get exactly what you pay for in an air rifle. If you don’t want to pay in that price range, you should consider spending the money on something else, instead of a cheap air rifle. Air rifles can be very useful in the right application. Hope this helps. Survive well. Enjoy.
@ Benja S. Sariwatta. There are some air rifles that I am looking at right now in a magazine that have 1650 feet per second velocity, most are between 1000-1500 fps. The common .22 long rifle is about 1200-1300 fps. While .22 ammunition is cheap, about 3-4 cents a round and 7-8 cents for the better quality ammunition, an air rifle does have some benefits. The air rifle is a little more quiet and the ammo is cheaper and can easily put away what you need for dinner, probably even some raccoon size.
Another little benefit to an air rifle is for those that cannot legally own firearms, you can go into most sporting goods stores, at least where I live, and purchase them without any background check. Some people out there do have records and cannot legally get firearms. Also for those unfortunately that cannot get firearms, the old compound bow can put away just about an animal or person at a decent range of 50 yards or less. Some marksmen at the bow at a much longer distance.
@BI; Another benefit of an air rifle, and this is what makes it worthwhile after you choke on the price, is that you learn to shoot better. Yes it is cheaper, always an issue, but because an air rifle is more difficult to shoot properly, it will cause you to have to learn the fundamentals of rifle shooting significantly better than even a .22 firearm. When I teach my new students I teach (preach is more like it) three things; front sight, trigger control and follow through and nothing else for the act of shooting. Follow through (and I won’t even try and explain it here) is a very important concept that isn’t taught particularly well, even by good shooters and instructors. The concept is very abstract and is more about “not doing something” rather than doing something overt. If you read a technical description of how to shoot, it (follow through) will be mentioned but never fully explained in any detail. In any event, follow through is so important in air rifle/pistol shooting, because of the lower velocities, that unless you master the concept, you will not be a very accurate shooter with an air rifle. Survive well. Enjoy.
I think that the whole point has been missed in the comments. My point being buy what you can afford, practice with it, and have an ample amount of ammunition.
You can never go wrong with “standard cal” weapons. By standard I mean what LE and the Military use.
I have:
1) .22 bolt action and Ruger 10-22. Heck when the ammo is on sale you can buy a brick of the stuff $5.00
2) Two .357 revolvers. 357′s can fire both 357 and 38 I like that and again ammo is inexpensive
3) Glock’s in .40SW The 40 is becoming more popular in my area over both the 9mm and 45 but I have one of each of those as well just very little ammo on hand for either. I have plenty of 40 in the safe. (Provided on D-Day I can get to the safe)
4) Mossburg is my choice in shotgun. They are simple stupid and can go through 100′s if not 1000′s of rounds before problems exist. One Model 500 is in the 18″, pistol grip mode the other is dressed out. I like that they can take 3″ and 2 3/4 12ga. My 410 and 20ga are both single shot Remington’s. Pretty hard to have a problem with a single shot.
5) One AR-15 H-Bar, one Rem700 .308 SPS Both have huge optics as I am a former Long Rile Observer and ammo again is easy to obtain and used throughout the Country.
6) A Sig .45 and a Ruger 44Mag Redhawk
Kind of a mix and match but good general combo. My lack of a 9mm should be made up by the others but again, in my area 9mm is falling from grace quickly. I have enough ammunition around if needed and God forbid when it does happen my priorities will be water, food, find ammo.
Also remember to have a few good blades in your kit. Besides being an all around tool you have to know your backstop with a gun of any kind. Even a non-trained person can close 21′ as fast if not faster than many can pull the trigger.
As a veteran, I prefer a caring liberal watching my back than a conservative looking out for number one. Chicken-hawk politicians and officers buck for rank by risking soldiers lives while they stay safely in undisclosed locations. In combat, officers who don’t take care of their men don’t last long. In Vietnam, many got fragged or “accidentally” shot.
That said, with one well placed small caliber bullet, a good marksman can do the job of many bad ones loaded down with heavy ammo and big guns. Whatever weapon you choose is not going to be very effective and could well get you discovered and killed if you do not hit your target in the first shot. Target practice is key. You must know where your shots will hit at different ranges.
For close combat, I suggest the practice of instinct shooting. A BB gun is the best tool to learn it with, but you can use a 22 with shorts for this. A good instinct marksman can shoot an aspirin out of the air and I’ve seen one shoot a BB out of the air with another BB. It will make you into an excellent trap and skeet shooter also. But if you can hit a flying coin with a BB Gun, you will be able to hit a running shooter with a larger rifle.
@beavis; Fully agree with the practice. Should be more like practice, practice practice. Caring liberal is an oxymoron as all they care about is feeling good about themselves over the mind-numbing amount of legislation they pass. I would rather have someone that is out for number one as they will value you at least as an asset if not an equal and therefore very important person. Survive well. Enjoy.
The amount of legislation liberals pass was not enough to keep oligarchy banks and their conservative help from destroying the economy.
The problem I have with some liberals is that they have swallowed the government line about staying unarmed instead of listening to Washington and Jefferson about the need for guns, making libs easy prey.
My combat experience showed that contrary to popular thought, liberals tend to be good soldiers because they care about people and ethics. Conservatives only need you to keep them safe or making them money. I witnessed enough fear driven and brutal mob behavior from conservatives and enough heroism from liberals to change my mind about things.
This article refers to an interesting study of the conservative mind that we might read if we can take some self-criticism:
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Society/Conservatives_Deconstruct.html