New York Gun Laws Imprisoning Tourists
January 3, 2012, Submitted by: Ken Tweet
A Marine is the latest in a series of arrests and prison sentences in New York for tourists unknowingly breaking a gun law. Some tourists while attempting to be responsible when seeing a ‘no gun’ sign and asking security where to check their gun, have been arrested and thrown in jail – even though the citizen has had a valid permit to carry (in another state), and had been misinformed regarding the legality to carry elsewhere.
This kind of enforcement should NOT be what these laws go after and prosecute (e.g. responsible carry of licensed citizens). Laws like these only hinder the innocent and responsible from carrying, while the criminal element thugs carry on.
The lesson learned from this story might be, if you are carrying and you wander into an area that is restricted, do not reveal to ‘authorities’ that you may be carrying – else face the wrath of the system. Just get out of that area, which you should have not entered in the first place…
Ryan Jerome was enjoying his first trip to New York City on business when the former Marine Corps gunner walked up to a security officer at the Empire State Building and asked where he should check his gun.
The 28-year-old with no criminal history now faces a mandatory minimum sentence of three and a half years in prison. If convicted, his sentence could be as high as fifteen years.
“I’ve been a law-abiding citizen my entire life, and for something like this to come down, it rips me apart,” Jerome told the New York Post. “It’s like taking a good dog and scolding him for something he didn’t do.”
In December, Tennessee nurse Meredith Graves noticed a “no guns” sign at the World Trade Center site and asked where she could leave her weapon, only to face similar charges.
Source: The Daily Caller
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@All; Well, I certainly don’t support this (otherwise innocent people in jail), BUT if you have a CHL/CCW or carry in your car (under color of law in your state), then it becomes YOUR responsibility to understand what caveats, constraints, limits and laws are in effect in whatever jurisdiction you seek to travel to/in. Ignorance of the law has never been a valid excuse for not knowing things that are considered to be in the “common ken of knowledge”. Even though I was born and raised in the South and lived in a state that had open carry (in theory), I knew that carrying a gun was “an issue” somewhere. Now, having said this, this sort of thing would show why we need (maybe???) a national RECIPROCITY law, if it is well written for the gun owner’s well-being. I would hesitate to support a national carry law as I don’t see a way to not muddy the state’s 10th amendment rights while doing so, not to mention the fact that the law could/would become a doorway to a MANDATORY Federal requirement (i.e. abuse of power) for carry as well as, if it is then mandatory, it then becomes a de facto “gunowner registration” database. Of course, for the ever paranoid, conspiracy theorists, you would be on “the list”. Well, we’re all on a list somewhere about something unless we truly “do nothing”. I will guarantee you that the Culinary Institute of America, the Female Body Inspectors and the No Such Agency agency and other TLAs ALREADY have your name. As a note of help and contribution, instead of pontificating, here are 2 very helpful websites
http://www.handgunlaw.us/
http://www.usacarry.com/
READ WHAT THEY SAY, don’t just look at the pretty pictures and make assumptions. Now, even though they are very informative sites, it is still your responsibility to know the law where you’re going. You should know though that in some states the cities have the right to make their own carry (or not) laws that do not conform to state law, e.g. New York City’s carry law does not correspond to the state law and they DON’T HONOR their own state carry licenses!!! I feel truly sorry for these people as the best that they will get (if they get a lenient DA) is a nolo contendere plea for no time in jail, but they will be a convicted felon, which means they can never possess/own firearms for life. I think this issue of “full faith and credit” for what is generally acceptable across the nation needs to go to the supreme court and have these felony convictions in these circumstances vacated. JMO Something is wrong when one state has no requirements for concealed carry and just across the state line it is a felony for the same act and common sense can’t prevail. Survive well. Enjoy.
I have some super advice to EVERYONE that enjoys and feels strongly about personal freedom and exercises that right: STAY OUT OF AREAS IN WHICH THEY EMPOWER THE CRIMINAL AND TAKE THAT UNIVERAL RIGHT AS A HUMAN BEING TO DEFEND YOURSELVES FROM BECOMING A STATISTIC. AVOID AREAS THAT THE VICTIM DOES NOT MATTER, AND THE “POOR” CRIMINAL HAS THE ADVANTAGES OF CONTINUING THEIR SPREE OF FELONIES AND ATROCITIES.
Attn America don’t give a single tourist penny to these commie states! Take your vacation elsewhere! Truelly a shame but make a stand. I quit my gym just because they posted no weapon signs. I made sure they were aware of why I quit too!
New York City is OUTRAGEOUS when it comes to carrying ANY kind of weapon. A friend of mine went to the city for the weekend and he was arrested, thrown in jail and eventually had to pay a fine and probation with community service. He had to communte to the city regularly to fullfill the community service. All that for carrying his very small fixed-blade knife. He puts it in his pocket every day and didn’t think anything about it. A policeman saw just the tip of the handle sticking out of his pocket and arrested him on the spot. The same thing applies to mace or pepper spray. Don’t get caught with that either. THEY ARE EXTREMELY STRICT.
A fitting quote here I believe is, “Stupid is as stupid does”.
@All; I wholeheartedly agree. My preivous post was informational. I don’t go to those places. I don’t spend my money there nor do I visit. I have no desire to see the statue of liberty if it means that I have no libeties. They can ESAD for all I care. I did go to D.C. to see my wife while she was at Walter Reed (that or divorce), but I din’t like it. Still carried my “automatic” military knife (switch blade) and kept my pistol locked up i acase until I got back to Virginia (she lived in wheaton, Md). Also as expounded upon about their strictness “up there”, they also do not have any “castle doctrine” ethos about their “use of force” laws. You have to retreat to the point of no retreat to use force. What BS! I don’t buy Colt firearms for this very reason. I also don’t go out of my way to buy S&W. I buy firearms that are made in free areas if possible or are such great values that you can’t help it. Unfortunately most of our historical firearms are made in New England. If we can force the “mainstream” firearms manufacturers to MOVE their operations, it will create a political force that will change some things. Bill Ruger saw this coming and managed to move out of a “closed shop state” successfully without the gubment suing him. Call them and tell them that “I would have bought X but you are in New England and I can’t support you because of that”. I fnmore people did that then they would move or go out of business. I realize that that is two faced to still buy some of their goods, but money is money but I won’t go to the SHOT show in Las Vegas since they won’t honor my carry license there. When it becomes a financial issue, they WILL change their tune. Survie well. Enjoy.
@All; Okay, I don’t really spell that bad. My wife has a MAC which I effin hate. The Keyboard went berserk and did all kinds of strange MAC crap this evening, that I don’t understand and I lost a 1000 word post. Anyway, my apologies for the FUBAR spelling in the post. Survive well. Enjoy.
I was a LEO (2006) from AZ when I flew into New York City.I was required to go to the nearest police station and ‘check in’ and when leaving NYC I am to again ‘check out’.
A fellow officer had gone earlier in the year and staff in the police station had him cool his heels for nearly three hours before anyone spoke to him. It was nearly two hours when he was leaving. In most different jurisdictions there is a certain comradery or sense of Brotherhood. This is completely absent in NYC. Very close to a hostile reception. Turns out this is a common experience and we are talking about sworn officers from another state. The NYPDs intent is to follow the law but make the experience as difficult and annoying as possible. I don’t blame the street cops but rather the Pols and brass that set the agenda.
I chose to pick up my checked weapon and skip the precinct cooling-my-heels experience. Probably should not have done so but I hate getting jerked around.
Have visited since and carry Kimber Guardian LifeAct pepper spray and a small folder. NYC restricts ones pepper spray to only one brand and you must buy it in NYC and take a proscribed course to secure a permit! My daughter (lives in Brooklyn) was caught with a Kimber Guardian, supplied by dad. The officer gave her a lecture and a warning and pocketed the Kimber. Nice huh? I agree and would never go there except to see my daughter.
I don’t know where you got the impression you were required to “check in
” when arriving at the city. Since the LEOSA was signed and if you possessed valid credientials, you need not check in anywhere. I’ve traveled into and out of the city numerous times and interact with many of the NYPD and NJ/NY Port Authority. None require this. no idea where you got that info, but it’s wrong.
@Ken; As far as your reference to “get out” of the restricted area, some people are SO honest that they cause themselves significant grief. I have been in that situation when my wife and my daughter wanted to go into a “state capitol” to see the sights. Well, we walked up to the door and there was a metal detector and no “no handgun” signs. I had to sit outside for an hour while they toured the rotunda and the staff inside “watched” me sit there. In another instance we were at a street festival when my wife and daughter wanted to eat. Well, in my state we have 51% rule that states that if the receipts of the establishment are 51% or more liquor, then it is a BAR, and you cannot carry in a bar. Well, we go in and order burgers and wait for it to come out. While I’m sitting there I notice the big red 51% sign behind the bar. Now that’s not where it is supposed to be. It should be posted at the door. That not withstanding, I take my burger “to go” and go outside an sit on the curb to eat. My wife and daughter come out and ask me why I’m out here. When I explain it to them they’re going “oh daddy, it doesn’t matter”. Yes, it does. It is the law, and in this case a felony. You have to know your local laws and you MUST know the laws of the end point of your journey if you are traveling. Don’t believe uncle Joe or some website. Make sure you contact the local states attorney or attorney general and get the most up to date laws. Survive well. Enjoy and carry well.
If I was going to travel to a NON free area, after reading this, I would not only contact the local and state attorney general’s office but I would also obtain a legal, hard copy, document showing the laws that I could use in a court of law as proof that I was not ignorant of the law. This is so frightening, some of the suffocating laws of NON free areas, that I would probably not carry anything that might have doubt to it. Most likely you could not pay me to go into an area in which someone has a Swiss Army knife or a Leatherman tool type blade that GrnMtnBoy was describing could be thrown in jail. This is beyond horrible, it is illogical and irrational to the point in which satire could be written over this.
These cities and areas around the world, not just Illinois and New York City, in which they take away good honest people’s means of defending themselves has got to baffle you. The criminals that mean to harm the innocent are going to have the weapons and they don’t care about the laws governing non self defense carrying. The criminals are committing crimes that will get them 10 times the sentence of someone illegally carrying pepper spray, they don’t care and they have the advantage over the good honest person that is just trying to live their life.
This is one of my biggest gripes is the shear ignorance of taking away the innocent people’s means of defending themselves. There has been many terrorists in Israel that IF Israel had the policy of citizens not carrying weapons would have had terrorist attacks that would have been 100 or more dead rather than 1 or 2 or no one because some citizen stopped a terrorist from spraying the crowd with their AK-47. Twice a citizen stopped two terrorists that had stolen a bulldozer on separate times that was steamrolling cars in Israel with a firearm. Look at what happens when citizens have no way of stopping a deranged nut job, the fatalities add up fast.
If some area wants to take away everyone’s firearms, this is bad enough. Taking away ALL means of defending yourself is not over criminal it is just plain evil. Taking away some 5 foot tall innocent women’s self defense so she becomes a victim of rape or worse is beyond irrational, it takes legistation and someone with either 100% manure for brains or someone that works and benefits from the crime. There is no other explanation for it.
I use to live in a state and area in which the laws were suffocating, not the worst, but bad enough. There is a lot to be said about getting the hell out of hellholes like this and never going back or visiting them again. Any place that takes the rights of the innocent away to protect themselves are true hellholes, they are the bottom scum of a filled up outhouse. Sorry this really upsets me to see so many people become victims because the bizarro laws of an area completely favoring the bad guys. It is a pet peeve because it is so unfair to the innocent and the poor victims that have no way of fighting back. Then if some victim picks up a stick and somehow defends themsleves against a criminal they could still be in some trouble if they used excessive force to defend themselves. I better stop before I really upset myself and give myself nightmares tonight.
Should be interesting to watch NYC fly apart like a punkin chunker makin pie should the SHTF there.
@ chiller. You know what? SHTF has already occurred there and it is within the very law system. These creeps that make these laws consider that a 5 foot tall 100 pound women can defend herself against some buffed up 6 foot 6 250 pound sex crazed pervert without any weapon. To put this is a comparison it is like Michael Vick the football quarterback that was convicted of dog fighting and torturing dogs taking on a fully grown chimpanzee. The strength comparison is about accurate with a tiny women taking on some 6 foot 6 monster. The ONLY thing that is going to stop the chimpanzee is a weapon. The ONLY chance the tiny women has against the pervert that is 3-4 times as strong as she is, she must have a weapon.
You know, these so called Nanny states that Damkina describe are awful. The criminal always has the advantage when the potential victim has no way of equalizing the fight. The criminal does not care about the laws prohibiting weapons, they are going to prison if caught anyway. In these so called nanny states innocent people are constantly victimized because the criminal knows that they have no means of self defense.
I tell you and everyone it upsets me so much to see how people become victims that should have never been one. How often do we hear of a victim of a crime that had a means of self defense, especially a fire arm? NOT TOO OFTEN. If these creeps that make these laws that empower the criminal had to face a wild animal (like a blood thristy hyena) without anyway of defending themselves, maybe just maybe they would understand what it is like to NOT be able to defend yourself against a much superior foe.
This has really surprised me, I always thought you people in the States had a right to carry a firearm. It’s so sad when innocent people are becoming the easy targets to the law. I hope the poor Marine gets understanding without stain on his character or record. Pathetic really, a Marine not allowed or not expected to carry a gun! I’m quite honestly gobsmacked!
I could understand it here in the UK as we’re becoming a nanny state where ANYTHING could be against the law. We have to be so careful and sometimes dare not even carry a penknife, As everything… Including a baseball bat could be classed as a lethal weapon. So you could be stopped, questioned and maybe arrested.
I work in a University kitchen and was on my way home one night when I realised that I still had one of the knives in the side pocket of my trousers. We are a country flooded with CCTV cameras and I honestly thought I would get caught. I felt like I was a criminal when it was an honest mistake by racing out of the doors to catch a tram home. I must have looked more
subversive trying to hide the damn thing with my bag!
The law is such a grey area here too, where defending yourself, including in your own home is concerned. How much is too much when you are a victim and trying to defend yourself and your family.
@Damkina, The U.S. is approaching the ways of the UK… a Nanny state. Sometimes I wonder if it is the natural progression of any and all governments to eventually enslave their citizens. It certainly is very sad when one ‘feels guilty’ for having a kitchen knife on their person while making their way home in fear of arrest while countless government cameras peer upon them. I have come to believe that true freedom in the history of mankind is a rare thing indeed.
@BI; The best someone can do in those sits is to MOVE! Survive well. Enjoy.
@Ken, on The tram on my way to work one day, I once counted one side of the main road going back out of town to the University. In a half mile stretch there is 24 cameras facing all different direction! How many are on the other side of the road I don’t know, and I dread to think how many are in in the city centre itself.
We are definitely on the downward slippery slope towards enslavement.
when seconds count and your life and the life of your child are at risk
the police are only 21 minutes away
http://gma.yahoo.com/okla-woman-shoots-kills-intruder-911-operators-okay-091106413.html
A .45 reaction time is 900 feet/sec.
@Chiller; AR reaction time is 3100 fps.
@Satori; There is a joke attributed to the San Francisco area; call 911 and ask for an ambulance and a cop and then call for a pizza with a delivery time guarantee and see who gets there first. Survive well. Enjoy.
maybe in S.F. they can get the pizza guy to drive the ambulance ??
Was watching an interview with that marine that could face jail time for the mistake of trusting a web site that it was legal in New York City to carry a concealed hand gun. By what legal experts expressed during the interview was that this marine does not necessarily have to be charged, it is up to the prosecutor of the city.
This person that served his country and has no record of any crime even asked where he could check his gun. What I do not understand is why the city cannot simply say that the website “could have been” misleading and has seen been corrected to make everyone know the exact interruption of the firearms laws of the city. This way the city does not actually admit to any wrong doings, but avoids jailing a honest person that served the whole country in which the city is within. The city also now has a clear defintion of its law for the future.
There also has to be some understanding from the “brotherhood of all marines” that their fellow marine is faced with a possible terrible plight of miscarriage of rational justice here. A total boycott of the city by all marines would be devastating to the tourism industry. The city would have to weigh in, “it is worth it?” People also have to remember that members of the armed forces volunteer to serve this country and without our military we better get use to speaking Chinese or Russian. Let this honest marine go, that make a simple non-intentional mistake.
This is also an issue of absoluteness of the law. This is a quote of wisdom, ” I SAY THIS TO ANYONE WHO MAY BE LISTENING, THERE CAN BE NO JUSTICE SO LONG AS LAWS ARE ABSOLUTE. EVEN LIFE ITSELF IS AN EXERCISE IN EXCEPTIONS”. From Star Trek Next Generation: Captain Jean-Luc Picard to a God like being on the absurdity that everyone no matter what was executued for any crime, no matter how small the infraction. He was trying to save a crewman from being executed on a planet where absolute law reined. The God like being agreed. Science fiction, yes. Poignant with everyday life and especially with this situation, SO TRUE!
@BI; It’s NYC, they won’t change. It’s all political and mayor Bloomberg is one of the premier gun-haters of the world. He formed the VERY anti-gun Mayors Against Illegal Guns (MAIG) which go out of their way to make examples of people with legal guns. It has nothing to do with reducing crime, which Mayor Giuliani had accomplished already when Bloomberg came into office. Billionaire Bloomberg uses the mayor’s office as a platform for his liberal politics and policies. Hopefully the marine will not be prosecuted and be left alone. If he is convicted he will be put out of the marines with a LESS THAN HONORABLE, general discharge. If you are convicted of a felony you cannot be in the armed services. Survive well. Enjoy.
To further quote in behalf of that marine, “When has justice ever been as simple as a rulebook?” Justice has a way of being twisted to serve a person’s radical agenda like TripodXL said. Like the warped justice system also goes public outcry outweighing one politician’s deformed bias. Anyone that respects reasonable and rational justice cannot see this loyal and devoted to his country serviceman being convicted of something reserved for the true criminal scum that do murder people with firearms. I can still remember a law professor in high school talking to the class that there really has to be INTENT on committing a crime to fully prosecute someone. That marine intended on obeying the law, not breaking it, and went to the extra measures to attempt to do what was right within the law.
If rational fairness does not sway the DA, then maybe hitting the very lucrative economic well being on the city that highly depends on tourism dollars flowing in. As I understand from a marine in the family that marines have a code of honor, and that code has been broken with one of their own with this illogical blind miscarriage of justice. Many marines and other members of the armed forces visit NYC often, a boycott would be some mega bad publicity for the city and its coffer. Bloomberg being a billionaire fully understands the economics of losing money, and again, in this isolated one time case, “is it worth it”?.
This marine is a nice guy and absolutely doesn’t deserve this horse manure in his life. No one that attempts to go out of their way to do what is right and within the law, deserves to suffer like him because of a simple misinterruption. The intent was there to follow the law, this is obvious. Here is someone that has served his country totally honorably that could go to jail for trying to obey the law. Then there is someone that gets away with murdering their 2 and 1/2 year old daughter, gets away with it, and is probably going to get all sorts of million dollar book deals. Talk about the lady of justice with the scales being blinded.