Iran Conflict With Israel Ready To Ignite?
November 11, 2011, Submitted by: Ken Tweet
During the past several weeks, there has been a noticeable ramp-up from many main-stream-media outlets reporting of an inevitable Iran conflict with Israel. Whenever all of the MSM outlets simultaneously begin repeating the same message, my radar lights up with suspicion… not always of its validity, but more-so of the reason ‘why’.
First, there were the recent reports of the so called ‘damning’ evidence from the IAEA that Iran has apparently overcome the Stuxnet virus and is now back to its nuclear weapons program.
Iran is attempting to engineer and test nuclear weapons at a series of banned production sites in defiance of United Nations sanctions, according to a report to be released next week.
The research by the UN’s watchdog, the International Atomic Energy Agency, will add a substantial layer to seven years of investigations that is likely to inflame tensions in the Middle East.
They believe the IAEA has substantiated evidence from intelligence reports, interviews with Iranian scientists and on-the-ground inspections that Iran is carrying out a nuclear weapons programme in parallel to its civilian energy goals.
Source: The Telegraph
Then, reports that Israel has test-fired a particular ballistic missile which could be the weapon of choice to hit nuclear sites in Iran.
42 Jericho missiles suffice to hit nuclear sites
Experts sceptical, say no alternative to air strikes
Ballistic missiles could be Israel’s weapon of choice against Iranian nuclear facilities if it decides on a pre-emptive attack and deems air strikes too risky, according to a report by a Washington think-tank.
Israel is widely assumed to have Jericho missiles capable of hitting Iran with an accuracy of a few dozen metres (yards) from target.
…a 114-page report (titled, “Study on a Possible Israeli Strike on Iran’s Nuclear Development Facilities” from the Center for Strategic and International Studies) said a Jericho salvo could draw an Iranian counter-attack with Shehab missiles. Other reprisal scenarios include Iran choking off oil exports, hitting U.S. Gulf assets, or ordering proxy attacks on Jewish targets abroad.
Source: Reuters
Although it could be considered a routine IAF exercise, the Israel Air Force recently conducted ‘comprehensive drills on long-range attacks’ at a NATO base in Italy.
The drill included most of the aviation components that are likely to take part in future long-range attacking missions: combat squadrons, aerial refueling and air monitoring stations.
Normally, long-range drills last two weeks, but the IAF left this drill after five days, and by the weekend all the IAF planes had returned to their air bases in Israel. The IAF’s early departure ignited the spreading of conspiracy theories which suggested Israel was heading into a possible mission.
Source: HAARETZ
Other reports are popping up regarding training exercises that NATO countries are preparing for war.
Germany has put its Air Force Tornado warplanes in intensive training for a possible attack on targets in Iran, after taking part last week in a joint drill with the Israeli Air Force and other NATO members at the Italian Decimomannu air base on Sardinia.
Iran, for its part, is gearing up for a gloves-off reprisal against its attackers.
Source: DEBKAfile
There is now wide spread speculation that Israel may attack Iran next month.
Part of the reason for the rush is fear that Iran may be able to move the majority of its nuclear processing equipment underground.
A senior Foreign Office figure told the Daily Mail newspaper, “We’re expecting something as early as Christmas, or very early in the new year,” adding that Israel will attack Iran’s nuclear sites “sooner rather than later.”
Iran has already claimed that it would retaliate violently to such an attack and would not limit its actions to just its attacker. “Our enemies, particularly the Zionist regime [Israel], America and its allies, should know that any kind of threat and attack or even thinking about any military action will be firmly responded to”.
Source: New American
So is all this sabre rattling just a coincidence with the timing of the present teetering European economy?
Are the powers-that-be arranging an attack on Iran to shift the public’s mind off the likely horrific socio-economic domino effect of failure to bailout Greece, then Italy, then Spain, then… ?
If Israel goes it alone, will the US be drawn in to the fight?
Will Iran follow through with its promises to destroy Israel off the face of the Earth and to inflict great harm to the West?
Will oil prices rise well above $100 and send the already faltering economies into a faster tailspin?
There are lots of questions. The one thing we can do is to become better prepared for an economic collapse, be it induced from a catalyst of war, or entirely by it’s own weight. Stay abreast of the news, build an inventory of food and supplies, and don’t put all your eggs in one basket – for starters…
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Russian and Chinese forces have been on high alert and will most definitely have something to say about anyone attacking Iran. This scenario can so easily turn into WWIII in the blink of an eye. Don’t rule out Iran’s other ‘friends’ wading into the melee. I guess the Eeeewuuuu figures if the Euro can’t survive, they might as well destroy Europe along with it.
The answer to the “Iran/Israel Conflict Ready to Ignite” question is an solid “Yes.” Israel will not tolerate Iran obtaining Nukes. The rest of the world may shake their collective finger at Iran for having poor listening skills (i.e. don’t make weapon’s grade Nuke material), but Israel takes Iran a little more seriously. Israel’s complete existence is put at risk by Iran obtaining Nukes, so they will take action, whether the rest of the world likes it or not.
Chiller makes an chilling observation in that China has stepped up its public showing of support of Iran and the Israel/Iran conflict could easily escalate. China is also unhappy with us inflating the heck out of our currency (TARP, QE1, QE2) essentially devaluing the billions/trillion in debt we owe them and paying them back with dollars worth much less. Let’s pray the conflict does not escalate, though it most likely will be a conflict. Especially since our current President is too inept to be able to de-escalate a 4th grader tether ball argument.
Thanks to Ken and his guest contributors for teaching us how to prepare, my family and I are heading their advice.
God Bless the USA.
Question: Can Iran destroy Israel with its current arsenal, of course. If they could do so what is stopping them (if they dont care about surviving)? If Iran had nukes how would it change the equation.
I agree with the basis of what you’re saying. I do not personally believe that Iran (their political regime) wants to commit suicide. As a nation though, if they were able to claim that they have nukes, then it would be a huge game changer in the region. Iran, being in the middle of Middle East oil, would be carrying a big stick when they come to the schoolyard to ‘play’. Plus, it does appear that Ahmadinejad is a bit of loose cannon, at least with the words he speaks.
@ BEER MAN. I throughly believe Iran has nuclear bombs, probably less than 5, but they have nukes. North Korea was able to make muclear bombs without much technology, Iran has China and Russia and maybe Pakistan aiding them in their nuclear industry for many years. What they want though is many more nukes. When you have less than 10 nuclear bombs you have what is called a one strike capacity and that is it. Countries like Pakistan that have at least 100 nuclear bombs can hit their enemy several times and then strike again against targets missed.
It can be assumed that within a nuclear arsenal that about 80-90% of the nuclear bombs will function like they should. The you can assume that 80% of those nuclear bombs will reach their target. 20% will fail through missile malfunctioning, be intercepted, etc. So 80% that will detonate and 80% that will reach the target, that is 64%, 80%x80%, that will hit and detonate at their targets. If Iran had say 5 nuclear bombs, then 64% of those would be only 3 that would hit Israel, not enough to destroy it. To destroy Israel it would take about 15-20 nuclear bombs at various locations.
IF Iran is found to have nuclear weapons and mass producing them, then Turkey and maybe Suadi Arabia will follow siut, and perhaps Egypt. Israel is fully aware that its size which is a little smaller than the state of Massachusetts knows that it cannot be hit by multiple nuclear strikes by many Arab countries. It has already gone through several wars to understand that the Muslims, all the Muslims countries would rather have Israel driven into the sea. With other countries possessing nuclear weapons all Israel can do is built up its own arsenal enough to assure MAD, mutual assured destruction as the only deterrent. An arms race that will add much nuclear weaponary to an area that is already a powder keg.
Also don’t forget about the use of chemical and biological weapons that both Iran, Syria, and Iran’s personal thugs Hezbollah have magnitudes of.
Do not underestimate Israel. There is no country in the Middle East that could attack them and “win”. Even if/when Iran gets nukes this will still be true. The klinker in this equation is that because Israel is so tiny two well placed nukes could destroy their country and kill well over half their population. BUT since Israel has nukes it would destroy the attacking country. This is Iran’s Hobson’s choice. They can only be sure of destroying Israel with well placed nukes (which they probably cannot assure today) and they are willing to sacrifice their country, their people and everything to do it. When that time comes that Iran feels confident they can destroy Israel they will do it. Iran believes that if they start WW III the 12th Imam will return and create worldwide Islam so the sacrifice in their mind, is worth it.
Russia and China will tolerate an attack by Israel and let the two countries fight it out. Russia will not allow Iran to become another Iraq and never allow the United States to occupy Iran right on the Caspian Sea and its door step. China will never allow almost 20% of its oil supply to be taken over by the United States, their economy is way too dependent on energy, and their coal deposits could not make up for a loss of 20% of its oil. So as long as the United States does not get into the battle between Israel and Iran, then whatever happen between these two countries will decide if World War 3 starts or not.
If Iran and Israel battle it out then expect a cataclysm on a regional level, the Middle East, AND oil prices and the world’s economies to die off quickly. A type of nightmare in which countries implode around the world without the mushroom clouds other than in the Middle East. As I have written before, my enemy’s enemy is my best friend, Muslims will defend other Muslims over Jewish people. There is a deep engrained hatred between the Jews and Muslims, and even the hatred that some countries have for Iran, there is much more hatred for the Jewish race. Muslim countries will side with Iran over Israel, trust me, it is just one of these things.
If the United States tries to to aid Israel, LOOK OUT!. Russia will send its forces to the borders of Iran at least, to defend it sovereignty. Just as the U.S. was fully willing to start World War 3 rather than have medium range nuclear missiles 90 miles of the shore of Florida in Cuba. The United States then has to back off, or what is likely to happen is launch on warning of Russian ICBM’s to avoid losing them with the enemy within a couple hundred miles and less than one minute within striking them. Russia will do exactly what the U.S. would do if the Chinese were in Mexico, make sure that their nuclear arsenal was not taken out before they could use it.
If the U.S. tries to put a blockage around Iran, China will likely attempt to run it or at least protect its oil tankers or the oil tankers that transport oil to China. I don’t believe Iran has the pipeline capability to ship oil to China across land. The second that a Chinese ship is hit, that is World War 3. China will immediately attack Taiwan because to have an ally of the U.S. sitting off its shore would be crazy. North Korea will attack South Korea, probably with China’s blessing. God knows what will happen with Japan.
Too many people have FORGOTTEN that World War 3 is very possible and have not prepared for it. Ecomonic collapse is still more likely, as are so horrific natural disaster, but global war has ALWAYS been there, and now is much more possible than anytime since the fall of the USSR. Surviving a global war is much harder than the regular survival of even a total EMP of the entire planet, but it is survivable. People can make it through World War 3, they just have to try harder and be more prepared, but it is survivable. This wonderful MSB site has much to offer in being prepared, and much of the advice given just has to be multiplied a few times to be ready for World War 3.
5 books I recommend for excellent advice on making through World War 3 are:
Nuclear Defense Issues, by Sharon Barton Packer, M.S. Nuclear Engineering, and by Paul William Seyfried, New Mexico Military Institute. From the Civil Defense Volunteers of Utah
Nuclear War Survival Skills
, by Cresson H. Kearny
No Such Thing As Doomsday : How to Prepare for Earth Changes, Power Outages, Wars & Other Threats
, by Philip L. Hoag
Life After Doomsday
, by Bruce D. Clayton, Ph.D
, by M&M Engineering
The Ultimate Do-It-Yourself Survival Shelters Construction Manual
The huge naval base being built on the South Korean island of JeJu will be open for US naval ships. This will essentially place a US naval base just 300 miles off China’s coast near Shanghai. No Provocation there…
Are these the same people that said that there where WMD’s in Iraq because this sounds eerily familiar except now we are using propaganda to prod another country to do our dirty work so we dont look like we are trying to take over another country.
ding, ding, ding!!! FINALLY, we have a winner. will none of you learn? this is a giant load of crap. iran has no navy and little air force. they are not capable of flying or sailing into israeli territory to deliver any nuclear payloads.
iran is likely concerned that america has troops in three of it’s bordering nations. saber rattling? most likely, just as saddam did to keep iran guessing with his claims of WMD’s. we all know how that turned out.
israel has air, sea, and missile nuclear capabilities.
maybe, just maybe, people need to consider the possibility that western and israeli military posturing, drone attacks, regime change escapades, etc., are pushing the iranians to desire nuclear capabilities. after all, nobody’s messing with north korea now, are they?
with american christians in charge of the military, i’m pretty sure that the role of apocolyptic prophecy found in revelations is more important than a bit of common sense.
OF COURSE IT’S A GREAT IDEA TO BASE AN ENTIRE WORLD’S ECONOMIC, MILITARY, AND CULTURAL RESOURCES ON THE GOAL OF BRINGING ABOUT THE HALLUCINATIONS OF AN ERGOT POISONED “PROPHET.” makes sense to me!!!
@Sam. Big problem, Iran has a proxy called Hezbollah and plenty of missiles that can easily reach Israel. Iran’s air force stinks, their navy is nothing but hundreds of speed boats. Iran does have missiles, and lots of them. Thanks to China that worships missiles, Iran is teeming with missiles land based, on their speed boats, their army. Missiles can definitely make the difference in a war. Iran does not have ICBM capability but almost certainly has nuclear weapons that it will hold on to just like North Korea. As long as you have the nuclear material to build a weapon, it is not that difficult to do so. Pakistan proved this. Iraq would have been able to build nukes if the its facility was not taken out by Israel. Building nukes just is not that hard, getting the fuel to do so is the problem.
Talked to some actually Israeli soldiers that were engaged with Hezbollah 5 years ago and they said that you would not believe how tough Hezbollah is. This terrorist group that is nothing but a proxy of Iran has been loading up and stockpiling on rockets like there is no tomorrow. They estimate that Hezbollah has between 150,000 and 250,000 rockets. Many of these are not the little Katyusha rockets that have a range up to about 20 miles either. Hamas has thousands of these down in Gaza and the West Bank. Hezbollah is armed to the teeth with longer range missiles that can hit ALL of Israel. Probably about 33% of their arsenal has rockets with 50 miles+ range. That is again, 150 to 250 thousand total missiles. It has been ranked as the most heavily armed area EVER in the world per square mile, even more than Vietnam or Korea.
Israel has about 9000 sq. miles and most of the land is desert or agriculture land. Try to imagine even 50,000 missiles hitting the Israeli cities. Then try to imagine if poison gas was detonated with some of those rockets. Remember Hezbollah almost sunk Israel’s best missile cruiser with a Chinese surface to surface missile. They disabaled or destroyed 100 of Isreal’s best tanks. They held Israel to a stalemate. This is history that actually happened and now Hezbollah is even better armed with many times the fighters. You bet Isreal is worried, for good reason. Oh, don’t forget the hundreds or a couple thousand Scuds that Syria also has.
Iran wants to mass produce nuclear weapons like Pakistan. Both countries are very radical Shi’a dominated and believe all sorts of insane rhetoric about if they can start a regional war that the 12th prophet of something will come to make the entire world Muslim. Iraq was ruled by a mafia type thug, and saddam’s idle was Stalin and tried to pattern his life after him. I totally agree that if saddam was allowed to sit in his little box like that nut from North Korea, and the attack never occurred the U.S. would have been much better off economically and would not have lost thousands of good troops and tens of thousands injuried for no good purpose. Iraq kicked the U.S. out and is going to go right back to being an enemy again, nothing accomplished.
Israel feels it has to attack Iran, so be it, that is their security issue. For the U.S. to join in would push Russia and China to do something to prevent from being further boxed in by the U.S. and NATO. Oh, World War 3 is knocking loudly at the door and that door is ready to be opened.
1) you are speaking with assuredness that iran has nuclear weapons. no official reports, whether from the military, media, or government, from any country or the UN, concurs with this, even though their is a vested interest in making confidential, anonymous claims about their capability. please cite any actual official report to the contrary and i’ll eat my hat. all that exists is conjecture and war-drum-beating from neoconservatives and the AIPAC. the same assuredness was given in the lead up to the iraq invasion and that cost thousands of american lives, tens of thousands of american limbs, and tens of thousands more concussive brain injuries AND trillions of dollars for absolutely no reason or gain. i’d like to avoid part 2.
2) i concede that iran has missiles and a military. please concede that israel can daftly play any MAD scenario with their air, sea, and surface nuclear capabilities. also, concede that israel cannot possibly know where all nuclear assets are, and cannot possibly destroy all of them in a single rush of planes across jordan and iraq. iran has been setting up hardened surface to air assets all over their western border for years.
3) calling iran crazy may be right, but israel is equally messianic in thought and equally fundamentalist, just with a different abrahamic delusion. shit, the same goes for america, in terms of being driven by prophetic intent. you’re employing the “they’re crazy when they do the same exact thing that we do” mentality that is wholly illogical.
4) i am sick of american wealth and prestige being gambled on israel’s apartheid idealism. we spend billions of dollars yearly on their defense and we have no actual foreign policy interest beyond keeping revelations-minded christians happily marching toward conflict with gog and magog.
Sam,
I would wholly agree that Iran does not have nuclear warheads – in very much the same way that the UK went to war with Iraq over WMD that were simply not present. It takes only a moment of consideration of the actual facts to realise the real reasons for the war were economic factors and empire building, as it will be with the other hand.
Israel most certainly does have strategic nuclear capability, the events during which these warheads were traded are not a secret – merely one of those events in world history that the mainstream media does not wish you to know.
All four of the points you make are completely valid. Number three needs further strengthening by pointing out the disproportionate number of civilian casualties and collateral damage caused by the ‘Wars for Profit’ that have already been fought. Only one country is historically the agressor in modern times and it’s transgressions/violations of human rights and the rights of sovereign states are both gigantic and plethoric.
@ sam. I am to sick and tired of wars for profit everytime the economies of the world, throughout history, have relied on war for saving their economy. Iran has nuclear weapons, forget what the media and other sources say, they have nuclear weapons. It is just not that difficult to build a nucleaqr weapon, if Pakistan can do it, so can Iran. This is no reason to invade Iran, if they are using these for self protection. Iran has had a nuclear program for many years with far more access to technology than North Korea ever had. You, me, Ken, the public are never told the truth about what is really going on with anything until years or decades later. Logic says that Iran has probably had crude nuclear weapons since 2000-2005.
I can point to so many different times throughout history that the public was not told jack about what what really happening in other countries. Rather than go into pages long examples I will site two incidents. After World War 1 countries were prohibited from massing huge armies and weaponary in an effort to curb another possible world war. Hitler was very sneaky in that he ordered to train every last person in shifts so Germany never had a standing army, well within the parameters that was set up by what I can remember was The League of Nations. Been very long since this that lecture in college about this. This allowed Germany to maintain a massive reserve army that trained and retrained over and over again. Both Germany and Japan, secretly built up huge weaponary. The public did not know about this until after the second world war.
Next example is the ex-USSR. No one knew about their nightmare biological weapons program of the 1960′s until the collapse of the USSR. The type of inhuman weapons developed were beyond imagination. They had strains of smallpox that someone could catch in 1-5 days that came from India. Antibiotic resistant anthrax and pneumonic plague (near 100% fatal), all loaded up and ready to be launched by ICBM’s. Marburg, the more stable version of Ebola, oh that one was especially designed to kill every last single person that was the enemy. No one ever knew about this program until after the collapse. Read the book “Biohazard”, the chilling true story of the largest covert biological weapons program in the world, told from inside by the man who ran it. By Ken Alibek.
Any country that is as paranoid as Iran is going to develop any type of weapon they can, especially nuclear weapons. I can only imagine what North Korea has. I can only imagine what the United States and China has. I so much recommend again reading that book, it is scary that anyone, any country could come up with such heinous ways of killing, and practically everyone to boot.
Nuclear weapons do not scare me, what frightens the hell out of me are biological weapons. A nuclear bomb uses up the available fuel at one time and it is over. Biological weapons that are contagious just keep going as long as they have a host. The fuel for a biological weapon that is passed from person to person never ends until a vaccine comes up against it, some anti-viral drug is designed to stop it, or until it kills everyone. Bio weapons are known as the poor man’s nuclear weapon, but are actually far worse. Bio weapons are also very easy to conceal their manufacturing under a country’s medical program. Iran, Syria, and other Arab countries have bio weapons programs and this worries me a lot more so than nukes.
Case in point sam, and anonymous, we are not told jack about anything.
I hate to resurrect the old arguement about WMD’s in Iraq but you seem to have hung your anti-American hat on it. There were WMD’s in Iraq but it behooved the politicians to hide it, confuse it and deny it. Probably Obama would not be president today if the Democrats were not so successful in spreading the meme of no WMD’s. In the months just before the war Russia sent in scientists, engineers and Spetsnaz to dismantle and evacuate the facilities and thousands of tons of biological WMD’s that they were responsible for providing to Iraq. During those same months the highway between Baghdad and the Bekaa valley in Syria was full of trucks moving the WMDs and equipment to make WMDs that were mostly provided to Iraq by our friends; Germany and France. After the invasion the U.S. forces found 550 tons of yellow cake, numerous chemical weapons and an entire underground facility to turn yellowcake into weapons grade uranium. To say that Iraq did not have WMDs is naive. This coverup persists. Some say it is because Russia and our “friends” (Germany and France) made specific offers that we could not refuse in exchange for secrecy.
I don’t know what Iran has or what level they have reached in developing nukes, but I am confident that Israel does or at least does with greater certainty then we have. They cannot afford to remain uninformed since they are smack dab in the middle of hell being surrounded by enemies. They have no choice but to protect themselves.
“i am sick of american wealth and prestige being gambled on israel’s apartheid idealism.”!!!
Apartheid??? The only country in the Midlle East that allows diversity is Israel. There are about a million muslim Arabs living in Israel. They vote in Israel and they practice their religion without fear. They enjoy democracy in Israel and no Arab country in the MiddleEast enjoys democracy. On the contrary being a Jew or a Christian in an Arab/Islamic country is practically a death sentence. So who is “apartheid”???
Like it or not israel exists. For more then 3500 years Jews lived in the area we think of as Palestine. They built the cities before Christ was born and they governed the territory until the Romans conquered them. After the Romans they again ruled those lands until the Islamists raped, pillaged and murdered them. They lived as a majority their quietly until about the 1920′s when Arabs from other countries began to illegally cross the border and settle there (is there a lesson to be learned from that?). They lived in peace with their new nieghbors until the 30′s when the Arabs began allying with Hitler. After WW II the region was embroiled in open anti-Jewish fighting and the UN took steps to divide the region into two countries giving Israel the land that was “mostly” occupied by Jews and giving the Arabs land that was “mostly” occupied by Arabs (hence the strange shape of the country). Israel allowed Arabs to stay if they so choose but the Arabs forced the Jews from their area. Israel embraced the new borders which cut their land in half but the Arabs refused their new country and started a war with israel on the very same day the treaty was signed. The Arabs have been at war ever since and adopted the made-up name “Palestinians” to give their claims an appearance of legitimacy. Now, who is it that is apartheid?
Ehud Barak: “If there is only one political entity, named Israel, it will end up being either non-Jewish or non-democratic… If the Palestinians vote in elections, it is a binational state, and if they don’t, it is an apartheid state.”
Michael Ben-Yair: “We enthusiastically chose to become a colonial society, ignoring international treaties, expropriating lands, transferring settlers from Israel to the occupied territories, engaging in theft and finding justification for all these activities… We developed two judicial systems: one — progressive, liberal in Israel. The other — cruel, injurious in the occupied territories. In effect, we established an apartheid regime in the occupied territories immediately following their capture.”
Shulamit Aloni: “The state of Israel practises its own, quite violent form of apartheid with the native Palestinian population.”
also, why is israeli regional primacy a befitting american foreign policy goal? why should anyone give a shit in this country? israel offers america ZERO benefits for its support. we get NOTHING but heartache out of deal.
besides the billions in aid that a wealthy nation receives, americans are also being drug into regional conflicts that are none of our business.
kissinger was right in an examination of national security to dismiss israeli issues because they lack importance to american realpolitik.
@ sam. There is an old saying that charity begins at home. Israel is quite well to do and does not need aid from a practically bankrupt United States. Instead of giving Israel all this military equipment, let them purchase it and give some Americans some work in the defense industry. Israel has a wealth of high tech industries that bring in a lot of money to Israel, they can afford it. Israel is more than capable of defending itself against most everyone. I am so sick and tired of good U.S. dollars going to countries that do not need like Israel, or to countries that are actual enemies of the United States.
There is too much wrong in this country that desperately needs to be fixed. Many people will say that foreign policy is extremely important, it is, but so is keeping the infrastructure of the United States from imploding. If Israel had signed into some sort of treaty like NATO then it is the United States’ business to defend all memebers of a treaty. Israel has not signed into anything, why should they? The good ol’ USA will come to their aid and fight their battles for them, and supply plenty of money. Without being too crude, the United States is Israel’s bitch.
hear, hear!
The question goes to should we make alliances. Should we have formed NATO after WW II? Should we have defended England, France, Holland, Italy, etc.? Should we simply wait until the forces of evil have defeated all our natural friends and THEN decide to protect ourselves? We have an agreement with Israel to defend it. Israel is the only democracy in the middleEast and the only light of freedom. If it falls the turmoil in the middle East will probably flare up into WW III. Would a wise mane choose to prevent Israel from having to use it’s nukes and allow chance to determine the world’s fate. You are free to hate Israel and to cite Israeli’s who hate Israel to try to prove your point. But that fact remains there are 8 million people there who would be wiped out if the surrounding Arab countries had their choice. Could the world accept that???
1) you couch this all in a “we are good, they are evil” context that is wholly lacking in any realism.
2) palestine is a democracy. they voted for the PLO and Hamas. your statement about israel being the sole democracy is a complete lie. if you’ll remember, israel (who you claim is sooooo concerned with democracy) instituted barbaric sanctions against gaza when they elected hamas. so much for their interest in democracy.
3) regarding that “light of freedom,” arab israeli citizens have their ethnicity printed on their voting cards. that “light of freedom” restricts basic medicines from entering gaza. that “light of freedom” sees fit to bulldoze the orchards of palestinian land owners in the west bank. that “light of freedom” sends commandos onto peace flotillas and kills american citizens. that “light of freedom” mistakenly sunk an american navy ship. that “light of freedom” has been caught repeatedly spying on american interests on american soil (not very friendly). that “light of freedom” has created a prison state in gaza all because the palestinians there dared vote in democratic elections for a political entity that the israelis did not approve. your “light of freedom” was the sole supporter of the south african apartheid regime (maybe the israelis thought they had much to learn from white south africans).
4) so, israel is holding the united states hostage by threatening to use nuclear weapons against iran? is that the rub? that the united states must do its bidding or it will begin WW3?
5) those aren’t israelis that hate israel. they are high office holders and government officials. ehud barak is a jew who hates israel? pro-apartheid israeli supporters refuse to accept that differences of opinion is allowed even amongst israelis!!! i would accept the destruction of israel because i don’t give a shit about religion or ethnicity. i actually believe that the freedom to swing your arms ends at the nose of another. i dont’ believe that the atrocities of the holocaust give license to israel to treat palestinians as animals or to use cluster bombs in civilian areas of lebanon against hezbollah. you would think that jews would experience empathy for those who are oppressed given their history. rather israel has come to represent some of the same values and ethos of there oppressors.
1) Everyday Islamist terrorist fire rockets into Israeli, do you consider that good? I consider that evil.
2) The USSR had elections too, did you also believe they were a democracy? The area you call Palestine is a thugocracy and the people do as they are told.
3) Medicine, food and necessities FLOWS into Gaza from Israel. You have fallen for the propaganda. “Peace flotillas”!! Give me a break they are intended to break the blockade so that radical Islamist can bring in more rockets and bombs to kill innocent Israeli civilians. All legitimate cargo is allowed to enter Israeli ports and after inspection transported to Gaza.
4) Israel will undoubtedly use nuclear weapons if nuclear weapons are used agains them. Wouldn’t you?
5) Do you not understand politics? That is what politicians do; tell lies and disparage the opposition. And YES, some of them do hate Israel.
@ GWTW. I do not know what you are saying that I am anti-American. I only go towards the facts. Empires use war to boost their economies, have since the start of civilization. OF COURSE THEIR WERE WMD’s IN IRAQ, MOST OF WHAT HAS NOT BEEN DESTROYED IS IN “SYRIA” RIGHT NOW! I just know that Israel does not deserve the United States coming to its aid all the time. Israel has done nothing to help this country, they are leeches to the U.S. and that is the sad truth of it. The U.S. needs to let Israel fight their own battles, which they are more than capable of doing.
GWTW. Anti-American is someone that is not looking out for the well being of the country, and coddling Israel is not looking out for the U.S. Israel has more than enough of an air force, several hundred nuclear bombs ranging from atomic to hydrogen to nuetron. They can handle whom they judge to.
Iraq was an utter disaster for the U.S. because IF they had left them alone saddam would have died in his little box, thousands of U.S. troops would be still alive, their would be more money in the coffers of the U.S. economy. That thug saddam would never have done anything but remain isolated and command of his little tin horn empire. The Iraq war was not in the benefit of the U.S. Those WMD’s would have remain in Iraq and the inspectors might have even found most of the rest. Now those WMD’s are floating around in Syria and probably other terrorist’s hands. Just like in Libya. How the hell does this benefit anyone, especially the U.S. ????????????????
The phrase “wars for profit” is typically spouted by people who hate America. Perhaps I could have just responded to what you said rather then accuse you of having an anti-American hat. But your statement was intended to be provocative and it provoked me. Consider all the wars since WW I:
WW II: War for profit?? Hardly. The world was truely at risk from a Socialist/Fascist agenda.
Korean War: Hradly “for profit” but we could have let China continue until we faced them down on Japan’s shores.
Vietnam war: A stupid mistake by a unexperienced and unfit president too young and too politically correct to realize his mistake.
Serbia: A stupid war and it is doubtful we even supported the right side. But clearly not for profit.
Iraq war I: Probably had to be fought and again hardly a war for profit.
Iraq war II: Probably unnecessary, if 9/11 had never happened we would probably continued to let Iraq shoot at our planes and build up their military until they destabilized the Middle East.
Afghanistan: I think we should have gone after the Taliban and Bin Laden. But it too wasn’t a war for profit.
Libya: A stupid mistake, but again hardly a war for profit.
The ONLY purpose the phrase “war for profit” has is to convince the U.S. to weaken it’s military power. The effort is kept alive by Russian backed American communist organizations and a handful of other anti-American organizations. If YOU don’t believe in their philosophy then YOU should be careful to not use their propaganda in conversation.
@ GWTW. My whole point is that a symptom of a faltering country and or empire is resorting to the use of its military in an attempt to stimulate the sick and anemic economy. I do agree with your assessment of the necessity of war for each scenario. Lets look though at the state of the economy AFTER each war to prove my point that war brings economnic good times in the short time, to often later pay for it.
WW1- The roaring 20′s, economy in wonderful shape.
WW2- The end of the Great Depression, steep drop in unemployment.
Korean War- The 1950′s were a good time that resulted in Eisenhower being re-elected easily.
Vietnam War- More during it in the 1960′s the ecomony was better than of course the recessions of the 1970′s
Serbia- The economy was not too bad, but NATO dealed with this more than the U.S. so irreverent to the U.S. economy.
Iraq war 1- The economy took awhile to take off after this one. Absolutely necessary because Iraq was next going to go into Saudi Arabia.
Iraq war 2- After and during this war the economy was doing quite well, of course at a later expense of the collapse of late 2008. Terrible mistake as Iraq was so sanctioned they would never would have been able to rebuild much of anything to ever be a threat.
Afghanistan- Necessary to get Bin laden and al qaida, but costly. Should have sent in massive overwhelming force to end it quickly. Not 100,000, more like close to 500,000-750,000 and finished off the problem rapidly.
Libya- you right profitted no one and was asinine. Now ten of thousands of shoulder fired SAM’s are floating around ready for some terrorist to down a few passenger jet somewhere.
I am all for a very strong military, it is a wonderful deterrent. Getting rid of the nuclear arms is crazy because of the fact that many of the nuclear arms will not succeed in actual war because of being intercepted, faulty, etc. Russia and China especially know this and while the U.S. decommissions the defense, Russia you know cheats, and China is so secretive no one has a clue to what they have. I just want the military used in a constructive purpose of the defense of the United States and the people, not on asinine ADVENTURES that spread the military too thin to defend the country that you, I, Ken, and most people that visit this site call home.
Right now the United States has to concentrate on the homeland and not allowing jobs to float over to the enemy. Not allowing the infrastructure of the country to crumble. Focus on the fact that the people are not in need of cheap products, they are in need of good paying jobs to support their families and add revenue to the country. Only trade with countries that are on equal economic level or countries that are better off. In other words let America come first, and forget about other countries until the United States can heal internally.
Every war has to be considered the pluses and minuses. Each president and congress MUST put together a type of spreadsheet with ALL the considerations on how ANY war is going to either benefit the country or severely hinder and be an intense liability to the country and its people. No one likes war and everyone hates to see American troops coming back in body bags, but sometimes war is necessary to preserve our freedom. Many times it is not, when it is not someone must step up and say STOP, it is not in America’s best interest.
What I am trying to say is the leaders have to use COMMON SENSE and good old fashioned rational and logical thinking.
Well then we agree on many things and I apologize for making an assumption based on your comment.
@GWTW. You know what is so sad, if the leaders of the United States would simply agree on one point, put all of America’s best interest first we all would be in so much better shape.
Interesting article for everyone to read. http://familysecuritymatters.org/publications/id.10786/pub_detail.asp
Another article to add to the whole equation of Iran and Israel: http://www.ynetnews.com/Ext/Comp/ArticleLayout/CdaArticlePrintPreview/1,2506,L-4146973,00.html
All of this noise vis a vis Iran and Israel happens like clockwork every year.
I don’t expect any attack short term.
Why? Most nuclear facilities have been located in the mountains.
In wintertime the valley’s can be fogged up and mountain tops cloaked by low hanging clouds.
Impossible conditions to undertake attack approaches, deploy infra red or laser guided arms or thermonuclear weapons for that matter.
Under all circumstances an Israeli attack (or any attack for that matter) will be a hazardous enterprise.
No need to add more risks and the uncertainty of fast changing weather conditions to these missions.
Think spring or autumn for the ideal conditions.
The primary objective for now is regime change in Syria
Part of the Iranian attack plan will be the taking control over the Strait of Hormuz and shield the Saudi and UAE oil installations.
Securing the Strait of Hormuz will require massive mine sweeping capability, boots on the ground in order to control the Iranian coastal area’s to prevent any land based attacks on oil tankers or Allied Naval Units and a complete destruction of the Iranian Navy, Air Force, Missile capability, the Revolutionary Guards and the decapitation of the regime leaders and government structures.
I don’t think Israel is going to perform such an attack alone. The US and NATO will be involved as well.
For now all the sable rattling has contributed to the current hike of the oil price.
Prepare for 300 or 500 USD barrel prices when a conflict with Iran takes off and thank Obama for not pushing the Canadian oil pipeline or other policies that would have made the US economy more redundant and independent from a regional conflict among the biggest oil producers in the world.
@ GWTW:
The phrase “wars for profit” is typically spouted by people who hate America. Perhaps I could have just responded to what you said rather then accuse you of having an anti-American hat. But your statement was intended to be provocative and it provoked me. Consider all the wars since WW I:
WW II: War for profit?? Hardly. The world was truely at risk from a Socialist/Fascist agenda.
Korean War: Hradly “for profit” but we could have let China continue until we faced them down on Japan’s shores.
Vietnam war: A stupid mistake by a unexperienced and unfit president too young and too politically correct to realize his mistake.
Serbia: A stupid war and it is doubtful we even supported the right side. But clearly not for profit.
Iraq war I: Probably had to be fought and again hardly a war for profit.
Iraq war II: Probably unnecessary, if 9/11 had never happened we would probably continued to let Iraq shoot at our planes and build up their military until they destabilized the Middle East.
Afghanistan: I think we should have gone after the Taliban and Bin Laden. But it too wasn’t a war for profit.
Libya: A stupid mistake, but again hardly a war for profit.”
You need to turn off your TV and do some learning.
I would suggest following the money as Roseanne Barr has said. Start with the OIL companies dispositions following the demise of Iran, then quickly move onto the OIL companies dispositions following the demise of Lybia – have a look at the banking systems of the indiginous countries involved
before and after conquest by the ‘coalition’.”
When you begin to see a pattern start to track back through history to look for this pattern.
It is a very simple thing to do:
1. The exploitation of natural wealth and resources.
2. Culling of the indiginous population – or a politically labelled ‘undesirable’ selection thereof.
3. The imposition of a fractional reserve banking system/currency.
Motive – method – evidence – suspects/perpetrators.
America and it’s allies are fighting ‘Wars for Profit’ – not for the security or benefit of it’s people – not for ‘Freedom’ or ‘Democracy’ – these are just words – only the corporations are feeling more secure: WWIII is being fought with banks and not tanks.
Your intent is not clear from what you said but I am assuming you are making a claim that oil companies made huge profits on oil from Iran and Libya and somehow this proves a war was for profit (but you don’t know which war I guess). First of all oil is bought and sold globally. An oil company can’t buy more oil from Iran or Libya because someone started a war. Oil companies pretty muc buy as much oil as they can sell and transport, no more/no less. So how does a war figure into it??? Secondly all of the worlds oil companies only own 6% of the oil in the world. The other 94% is owned by countries. When oil is purchased all of the many oil producing countries make 94% of the profit and the oil companies make 6%. So how is it you think a war changed that???? I think you have drunk the coolaid.
I’m not sure what it is that you think would replace fractional reserve banking or why you think it is bad. When it comes to banking/investing there are really only two possibilities: 1)Fractional reserve where by law the banks must retain some percentage of deposits so that withdrawals can be made on demand. 2)No reserve where all the money is invested and an investor must wait after requesting a withdrawal until assets can be liquidated.
I suspect you read something where a crazy anti-bank nut ranted on and on and all you remember about it was the term “fractional reserve” so you think that must be the boogey man. As you so eloquently said “You need to turn off your TV and do some learning”.
@ GWTW: Israel does have Nukes – historical fact – seek and ye shall find.
During your Civil War the British continued to trade in cotton fibres from the Southern States – combined with British wool production these were turned into Uniforms, but the South wore home spun butternut – now where did all those blue uniforms up North come from? – seek and ye shall find.
Similarly – where did the British find enough steel to churn out vast numbers of Enfield Rifled Muskets for supply to the Confederacy?
Playing both sides?
Lend lease to the Soviets during WWII – check out the raw materials supplied to Germany by the States during the same period. Research Hitler’s special relationship with Henry Ford and the Ford Maultier Armed Half Track – used in Normandy to rain rockets down upon the Allies – Wikipedia used to contain a reference to this – maybe it still does.
Playing both sides?
Anti-american? I have family over there.
WARS ARE FOR PROFIT – always have been – since the first man picked up a club to get for his family what some other guy has got.
“Prepare for 300 or 500 USD barrel prices when a conflict with Iran takes off and thank Obama for not pushing the Canadian oil pipeline or other policies that would have made the US economy more redundant and independent from a regional conflict among the biggest oil producers in the world”
So why is Obama not doing the job he was elected by the people to do?
Maybe it is not ‘the people’ that he is working for?
Everyone traded with Germany and Hitler prior to the war, even England and France. Perhaps their crystal ball wasn’t working and they didn’t realize what Hitler would become in the future. But to use hindsight to blame Ford for selling vehicles to Hitler seems to be unfair.
Saying “wars are for profit” is naive and uneducated. It is a nice snappy slogan for an anarchist or hippie demonstrating against… against… Oh, that’s right they are clueless about what they are demonstrating against but they do have snappy chants. Wars are either for aggression or defense. Some “conflicts” may have participants with purely political motives but for the people on the ground they were either the attackers or the attacked. The fact that commerce still goes on is hardly proof of anything.
Of course Israel has nukes. What made you think they do not?
At least we finally took delivery of the right conventional weapon to take on the nuclear facilities of Iran.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/munitions/mop.htm
@ GWTW, Last time promise to myself… Re: “The phrase “wars for profit”… I can only feel one of 2 things is being disseminated via your posts. 1st is you have very strong beliefs likely filtered down through the education systems. This is a meritless debate point not worth absorption. Certainly absent merit as regards survivalism. The 2nd feeling is a more delicate matter to comment on; as to espouse the truth as to the often confused mind set you propound regarding the clarity of someone’s post; not productive. To be clear: coins have 3 sides. A forked tongue is still a tongue, the lack of use of which negates true input. Moving blindly through a sensory world without the instinctual survival tools that are available to you is counter productive. To not use all of your genetic memory, sensory and ultra sensory input is to condemn oneself to the survival of the fittest equation on the dead end side. Sorry, have to question where you get your historical data? As well as how you formulate hypothesis? Maybe study the cycles of repetition with which, war, being written by either the winner or looser ( clearly opposite views ) mandate an intellectual ferreting out of the foundational reasons that war comes to pass. Clearly the 3rd side of the coin that exists is the intuit, without which, unfounded, incomplete opinion arises. (This?, or, That?, May be a Collectivist Amalgam?; Both as One? ) Clearly an intellectual waste of time for oneself and those exposed to defective data used for debate. Again with zero merit to the wisdom that should forward “Survivalism”. Not personal agenda. My educational bias toward M.S.B. purposefully uses paradox. Here both sides at war are the reason… “Greed” (colonization, naturalization, domestication… )” Power” ( corruption, control, oppression… ) “Genocide” ( This goes to the complicit corporate nation states involved and encompasses an over all “Eugenics” of all waring factions. Integration of the conquered, both for new blood ( Breeding stock… ) and acquisition of their territory for exploitation at the cost of the lives lost by all… ) “Gluttony” ( Devouring painful death, all the more for us… ) “Tyranny” ( Not just Power but, complete disregard of Human Rights just for jollies… ) This goes on from the alpha to the omega and creates the ultimate lull in between. (Peace? No, “Think Tanks”! ) What’s it been, since 1832 that “Skull and Bones” in Britain started the ever escalating cycles of war?… Refining, replaying, using different commodities from Drugs ( Opium Wars, still going, not just the Boxer Rebellion… We grow and distribute the Afghanistan crops.-Heard of Op Fast and Furious, Gun runner, Iran Contra? Oil and every other acquisition potentiality are “War for Profit”. My premise is centralized wisdom. Peripheral visualization of “Universal Law”. If it has happened it will. If it will happen it does. If “It” happens again we are F#$%&D! Just as that top picture is worth 1000 words. Oh, and the Rockefeller’s funded Hitler. Mien Kampf is plagiarism. The Globalist’s are making their NWO today, and it’s time to wake up! Now that’s on topic and progressive survivalism. Time to take back the Constitution and The Bill of rights. Time to take your money out of the bank before it is gone. Awareness/Earth Sense/Action… Survive-All…
What it would take for Israel to hit Iran??? http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4192055,00.html I think it would take more like 200 planes and all sorts of missile strikes from subs. Even then you would have a real difficult time doing anything to a mountain base. A small nuclear device may have to be used. After this Israel is likely going to be pummelled with 10′s of thousands of rockets in the fist few days from Iran, Syria, Hezbollah in Lebanon, Hamas in the West Bank and Gaza. Israel THINKS they can do it. Anyone for $8-$12 per gallon gas for who knows how long.
I had to send this: http://www.debka.com/article/21760/ it is within the 6 weeks discussed in this article that the Iranian oil bourse is set to start on March 20. It is before Passover, Israel will attack before or after this holiday celebration. It is before the summer driving season in which oil could already be $150 by summer, and shoot up to $250-$300. If they attack now it will only go up to maybe $200-$225. It sets up a time frame the Israel that has to act or it is too late. I personally still believe that Israel is trying to prevent Iran from mass producing nuclear weapons rather than just one or two, but this is beside the point because the results are the same.
Still 3-5 days before or after a new moon is the best time for an attack on Iran. Time frames Feb.23-26, March 17-27, April 16-26. New moons happen on March 22, April 21 and are the darkest times. I sure hope everyone is getting ready for this, it might not happen, but probably will. I would say there is a 70% chance of an attack on Iran within 3 months, then I feel that the odds drop because Iran at that point, the world will accept that Iran has nuclear weapons like they did with Pakistan. The oil bourse will not affect the U.S. dollar that much or Iran chickened out of it. I would say after the 3 month period the chances are 50% or less for war in Iran.
Israel has enough military might to destroy ALL its neighbors including Iran.There is not now any existential threat to Israel, and there has not been any since 1960′s (President Johnson’s time). Netanyahu is in Washington to again pick the pockets of US taxpayers to pay for a pre-emptive war to assure Israel’s overwhelming firepower continues to dominate the Middle East into the foreseable future.Israel will continue to pursue its financial and expansionist policies without resistance whenever it chooses.Despite some of its inflammatory rhetoric, Iran poses absolutely NO threat to to the US.Why is it absolutely forbidden to even discuss the Isaeli-Iran problem in the US media?
Since 1945, all nuclear weapons are defensive. Why is it then that Iran must never have an atomic bomb, but it is okay for Israel (>250 nuclear) devices to have one? or North Korea, or Pakistan or India etc? I have never found a clear and plausible explanation for this?