Red Flag Laws. If you don’t know what that is, let me summarize for you.
The Dangers of Red Flag Laws
It is a guilty-until-proven-innocent, pre-crime confiscation of one’s firearms. It is triggered when anyone (literally anyone) makes a Red Flag accusation against you (or whoever). I’m not kidding. It’s that easy.
There doesn’t have to be a truthful reason to initiate the process. The police or SWAT team will come to your home, unannounced (probably at 3AM), and take/seize all of your guns when someone triggers the Red Flag law against you. The responsibility will then be upon YOU to PROVE your innocence in court (with all associated costs thereof).
Does anyone see ANY problem with this? Do you think that maybe there’s a wee bit of probability for ABUSE here? Is there not a violation of at least our 4th Amendment rights with Red Flag law? Or what about our 1st Amendment rights?
Red Flag Law Abuse
Lets say you’re an outspoken advocate on “the right”, utilizing your 1st Amendment right of free speech. It ruffles the feathers of the snowflakes on the left (for example). They in turn melt-down in anger (which they do), and call the police to trigger a false Red Flag accusation in retaliation (which they will do). Think it won’t happen? Think again.
Here’s another one. You break up with your girlfriend. Or you’re getting a divorce. She is so vindictive that she calls the police to falsely report a triggerable Red Flag offense. The next thing you know, they’re breaking down your door in the middle of the night to seize your firearms.
You’ve got a neighbor who really hates guns. Especially the scary looking ones. They know you have them and think you’re one of those “gun nuts”. They’ve seen you take your scary one out to your vehicle to go and target shoot at the range. It frightens and angers them to the extreme extent of reporting you via a Red Flag triggering phone call to the police. The process has been put in motion (guilty until proven innocent) and they arrive at your home to confiscate ALL of your firearms.
Listen, I could go on and on with hypothetical examples. It’s nearly endless the scenarios that someone could use to falsely accuse another of a Red Flag law violation.
The Leftist’s Dream Come True
Here’s another thought. All of you know (or should know) how nearly EVERY leftist politician wants to take your guns. This fact has actually become stunning to me. Have you heard the words that have come out of the mouths of the current batch of Democrat presidential candidates? Clearly in no uncertain words, they do want your guns. It’s as though they are under communist influence (they ALWAYS take the guns first). So, if these politicians seize power, they WILL use so called Red Flag law as one way to achieve their goal.
But wait, IT GETS WORSE…
Red Flag Laws are Fundamentally Flawed
I recently read an article at the Washington Examiner. It is written by Donald Kilmer, a law professor and practicing attorney who has litigated dozens of restraining order matters, defended against state and federal gun charges, and prosecuted several Second Amendment public interest cases.
He says “They’re all [Red Flag laws] meant to disarm dangerous people — but they’re all fundamentally flawed.
The following are excerpted from that article:
Everyone is debating “red flag” laws like they’re some new thing, but California has had variations of them for decades. We call them domestic violence restraining orders, civil harassment restraining orders, workplace restraining orders, elder abuse restraining orders, mental health seizures and prohibition orders, and, more recently, gun violence restraining orders.
~Donald Kilmer
They’re all meant to disarm dangerous people — but they’re all fundamentally flawed.
None of these red flag laws would have prevented recent mass shootings. And in my 23 years practicing law in the heart of Silicon Valley, I have litigated dozens of these cases. I’ve seen firsthand the practical enforcement problems that emerge in real-life cases.
These kinds of court orders are usually obtained from a judge ex parte. That’s fancy Latin for: The judge only hears one side of the story, it is not your side, and you may not even know about it until after the fact. Then they immediately strip you of fundamental constitutional rights for the duration of the orders. You’ll get your “full due process” hearing, but not until later.
And any violation of these orders is separately punishable as a crime. So even if you are innocent of the underlying conduct that inspired the “red flag” order, if you violate the order pending your hearing, you can still face criminal charges.
That kind of situation is ripe for danger. In one situation in Baltimore, police ended up shooting a man when they came to collect his guns under a “red flag” law.
In one case in Southern California, a client had to pay a $1,000 ransom, that was reduced from an initial “offer” of $4,000, to get his 50-gun collection back.
Experienced counsel to defend you in a “due process” hearing will run about $15,000 in fees. If you lose and want to appeal, expect to spend another $25,000 to $100,000 in fees and costs. And even with all of that, you might still lose.
To win these hearings, you have to refute an allegation that you pose a danger to yourself or others where a judge already issued a temporary ex parte order that concluded you were already a danger. Many judges will likely err on the side of caution, and against your rights.
As a practical matter, if the government’s interest is in separating a potentially-dangerous person from guns, it makes no sense to leave other guns that belong to family members in the home. So, if you live with someone that gets a red flag order issued against them, then you and others living in the same home risk losing your guns, too.
Even if you win, the judge isn’t going to just hand your guns back to you at the end of the hearing. It’s probably a good idea to “lawyer up” just to go through the process of recovering your guns, so you don’t go to jail or prison for accidentally breaking an obscure firearm law or regulation. You wouldn’t want to set off a red flag.
Are Red Flag laws simply good intentions with a MAJOR flaw? Or are they groundwork for abuse and gun-grabbing power?
Do Red Flag laws violate the 2nd Amendment? Do they violate the 4th Amendment? What about the 5th, 6th, 7th, and 8th? (Reference here)
Rather than requiring probable cause that someone has committed a crime, red flag laws are based on the supposition that a crime could occur based on the subject in question. NO PROBABLE CAUSE REQUIRED!
States With Red Flag Laws
So far as I know, 16 states have implemented some form of Red Flag law as of this writing:
California
Colorado
Connecticut
Delaware
Florida
Illinois
Indiana
Maryland
Massachusetts
Nevada
New Jersey
New York
Oregon
Rhode Island
Vermont
Washington
Additionally, the following states have evidently introduced Red Flag legislation in their state legislatures:
Alaska
Arizona
Arkansas
Iowa
Kansas
Maine
Michigan
Minnesota
Missouri
Nebraska
New Hampshire
North Carolina
Ohio
Pennsylvania
South Carolina
Tennessee
Republicans Caving To Red Flag Laws
In addition to all of that, apparently Republicans Donald Trump, Mitch McConnell, Lindsey Graham and Marco Rubio are also considering Red Flag law at some sort of national level. At least that’s what I’ve read. Whether or not they actually promote this for real, remains to be seen.
The Takeaway
Listen. I don’t have the answer (at least a simple answer) for the “violent people” problem (using guns) that we’ve seen of late. But the answer is NOT penalizing the 99.9% majority, law abiding citizens in this country.
WE HAVE A SOCIETAL ROT PROBLEM
In my view, Red Flag laws are ripe for abuse and violate the principles of our 4th Amendment, not to mention the 2nd Amendment itself. This whole notion of pre-crime is going from science fiction to reality. It’s here.
The gun-grabbers are utilizing every single opportunity to add more “cuts” (death by a thousand cuts) to our rights and freedoms. I’ve really come to believe it is largely sinister. Incidents involving guns are cherry picked to achieve specific goals. While the problems in major cities such as Chicago and Baltimore (just a few examples) are orders of magnitude worse but ignored. It’s a violent people problem.
We are the only so called free country on earth. The rest of the world’s ruling elite (globalists) are chomping at the bit to take us down. We have enemies within. Clearly. And they are succeeding, one slice at a time.
Continue reading: When There’s No Law and Order and the Politicians are ALL Corrupted
Sadly the deep blue State of Hawaii, with its lone Republican member of the State Senate (no Republicans in the House), has enacted a Red Flag Law. Add this to the numerous gun laws already on the books (14-day waiting period for every purchase, mandatory firearm registration, no open/concealed carry, etc.) and it is easy to see that the honest, law-abiding citizens of this state are the persons being restricted, not the felons or the mentally ill.
I agree 100% with the gist of the article…Red Flag Laws are the work of the Devil and he is good at his job.
Sadly, we are seeing more and more in Congress “signing” on to this absolute and evil corruption of power…and of course, R’s and D’s are all part of the same den of thieves so any of you who thinks there is one Patriotic Freedom and Liberty Loving Human in Congress is a fool. They do not exist in DC. Every man, woman and child within the borders of Washington DC needs to spontaneously combust at the same time in order for this once Great Republic to have a chance.
PS…Add TX Rep Dan Crenshaw to the list of “once patriotic Americans who are now traitors” for his support of Red Flag Laws.
The Once Great Republic has long been past the tipping point so none of this surprises me, yes it hurts and disappoints but does not surprise.
A few weeks ago I had this discussion with an individual online. Apparently as long as there are laws in place making misusing red flag laws a crime, it’s “totally” constitutional.
What I should have said is “Murder is illegal too. How’s that working out?” So who is responsible for looking at the accuser and determining whether they had a legitimate reason for making an accusation? The judge who approves the order should be doing that, but it’s not part of the laws. Red flag laws are very simply confiscation of property, accusation without due process, without the right to trial by jury (red flag accusations are not aimed at existing crimes, therefore there is no trial and no public defender), for a possible future crime.
There’s a word for accusing someone of a crime they might commit in the future, but I can’t remember it at the moment.
Thought crime
Watch The Minority Report again, cuz I can’t remember either…
They’re now calling it “future crime” or “thought crime,” but there’s an actual legal term for it. I just can’t remember.
Pre-crime
I believe the thought crime concept was introduced in George Orwell’s “1984”. Bill Gates has warned of the dangers of AI, when machines will do the judging. We are headed that way. All those surveillance cameras will be armed with red flag software to detect potential problems.
There were discussions about this historically, because certain legal systems allowed arrest and even conviction for a crime that hadn’t been committed but had been considered or planned (according to the arresting authority). The legal precedent was roundly rejected for our own laws, which is why “red flag” people aren’t accused of a crime. I can’t remember the word for it.
As I recall, Virginia was considering using a formula on your likelihood to commit another crime in the future to determine your sentence. it was shot down.
Apparently the same formula won’t work on illegal aliens 🤔
intent to commit.
As I mentioned yesterday on Open Forum what happens when an “Offended or Threatened” person calls in a Gun Shop owner. Will they have to “Secure” his whole inventory to “Protect” him? Most gun shop owners are not wealthy folks and a lawyer is expensive aside from the months of time needed to work through the system. Would be the kiss of death for them.
In sad news an old favorite gun shop announced yesterday that they are closing soon. Maybe they see the writing on the wall? Official story is the family members that are employed by the shop don’t want to run it after the parents move onward into retirement.
Red Flags and loss of gun supplies through laws crippling-closing gun businesses is occurring. I hear a Ammo and Gun TAX is again proposed to Fund mass shooters victims costs.
We are preppers, we look ahead at what IS not what we Hope it will be.
Unfortunately there are not enough freedom loving, liberty minded and Constitution minded people in this country to make a real difference in preserving what we once had .
Red flag laws are a terrible step to the brink of our destruction.When guns are confiscated and a person can no longer protect themselves and their family , the party is over . We will soon be on the ash heap of history. There are too many examples to think otherwise : Cuba,Venezuela,North Korea, China to name some .
I have read statements that our president made comments about getting the guns now under red flag laws and sort things out in court .
The roaring twenties will soon be here .
Red flag laws, at least the ones I’ve read about that require removal of guns without an adversarial hearing in court, are blatantly unconstitutional. Those pushing these laws know that. They also know how expensive it is to fight these laws, and in the process have them ruled unconstitutional. They count on that. All the 2nd amendment “victories” we’ve experienced in the recent past have come when organizations such as the NRA and the 2nd Amendment Foundation have furnished the financial assets necessary to go through the appeal process. The cost of prosecution of these laws are, of course, born by the tax payers.
Witness the unconstitutional law passed by New York City making it illegal for residents who legally own guns to transport them away from their home. After a citizen challenged that law, went through the expense of appealing it through the liberal court system, up to about to being heard by the Supreme Court, New York City rescinded the law hoping there would be no final decision made by the Supremes. They knew the law was unconstitutional when they passed it. They were depending on the deep pockets of the tax base compared to that of the average gun owner to force acceptance of an unconstitutional erosion of the 2nd amendment.
Apparently, as per the list of states involved, many politicians are capitulating toward gun confiscation.
Will the military equipment distributed by the previous administration be used for such things, when the next Dem. occupies the WH?
Amazon sells a product called a “Mono vault” which is built to be buried and is air/water tight. You do the math
Why ossifer I only got deez 2 gats here… the rest fell of da boat while me and my bro where cat fishin 😉
I see that San Francisco has passed a resolution declaring the NRA a terrorist organization. So I guess they can confiscate all the guns of NRA members in their jurisdiction.
I saw that….I guess the entire NRA gun collection at their museum (which is a fantastic museum) will need to be confiscated now.
KINDA SORTA
Maybe they should expand the red flag law concept to confiscate the vehicles of people that posts online pictures of them drinking, people that by more than one case of beer or two bottles of wine per month, people that visit a bar more than twice a month to prevent DUI deaths. They must then go before a judge and prove they have never driven while intoxicated in order to get there car back.
It would make as much sense except there is no Constitutional right to “Keep and bear automobiles”. This isn’t a slippery slope, it’s a cliff.
Personally I like what Texas has done recently in the wake of the most recent shootings. Instead of making the law biding citizens deal with stricter guns laws they are making their gun laws more lax. I have to agree.
Criminals don’t care or abide by the law, that’s why they are criminals. Criminals do their acts and the good people suffer from them and then suffer again at the hands of politicians. Why make it harder for the law abiding citizens to protect themselves? Does that make any sense to any one? NOT me.
I think people ought to be doing more to protect themselves…
Jabba,
Sadly, many won’t do a damn thing to protect themselves. They’ve been taught for at least 3 generations, maybe 4 if you are an inner city minority, that the Government is the only entity that is there to help you.
My Old Dad, long since dead, knew that when the Department of Education was created, that would be the beginning of the end to American Exceptionalism (generally speaking)
Soft Times Breed Soft Men and people, we are surrounded by soft men.
Everybody is on it now:
infowars.com/trump-administration-considering-social-credit-score-system-to-determine-who-can-buy-a-gun/
I think Clint Eastwood made an intelligent statement:
Giving up your guns because there are too many guns is like having a vasectomy because your neighbors have too many kids.
Nice. I had forgotten that line by clint Eastwood. but I don’t remember the movie
BECAUSE THEY CARE
We know they’ll soon confiscate all death-causing items and services: vehicles, beer/wine/hard liquor, airplanes, cigarettes, boats, sex, hospitals, doctors, drugs, allergy meds, seafood, aerosol cans, matches, roller coasters, bees, knives, junk foods, high fructose corn syrup, the Clinton mob…
“””We know they’ll soon confiscate all death-causing items and services: “””
But, yet, the sprays in our skies continues.
One thing is obvious from here — Our sky activities have drastically changed since Obama left DC.
This Red Flag Law. (red as in communism?) stinks to high heaven.
This one law alone breaks so many of OUR BILL of RIGHTS.
Ohh yeah, forgot where I was for a moment….we have no rights……
just hypocritical idiots that believe they know best for us Dregs of the Earth. (Dixie Dregs)
But they got another thing comin’. Hands off, private property (Judas Priest)
Keep your dirty hands off me.
HANDS OFF
What part of ” shall not be infringed ” do they not understand?
Since Walmart is stopping the sale of .223 or .556, I have bought thousands of rounds. Extra barrels, lower parts kits, upper repair kits, ar15 armorer kits and reloader kits for 9mm and .556. Go figure !!! I have also started a militia.
A friend of mine used to own a gun store. They had a picture of Obama on the wall with the words “Salesman of the year” because every time he opened his mouth gun sales spiked.
This law is where the medical community can be a participant in disarming Law Abiding Americans. Red flag laws have been on the books for decades in matters where the former law abiding citizen goes off the rails behaviorally and is sent to a locked facility where psychiatrists and psychologists declare a person to be mentally unfit.
A much more common reality that has been happening is: people develop dementia as they age and they are declared unsafe within their own home and a professional caregiver is called into the home. Care givers, relatives and spouses have been shot by people suffering from dementia of different types. ( aftermath of a stroke, Alzheimers, there are many forms of dementia.)
This is the other side of the coin that I do not want to see happen: Red flag laws are used against somebody that has a different belief system than you or me. One can always argue the similarities or lack thereof between people of a different political party/religious faith and being insane. When does being forgetful become dangerous?
I stated in open forum this past week about my wish that people refrain from chest thumping, bragging on any public forum including this one. One never knows when those laws created may be turned against you.
This is part of the reason I have refrained from discussing politics on this site in recent years. It is a very controversial subject in our present day and there are already enough fights out there to make more people angry.
I am looking at retirement within a few years. Partly due to my age but also, I do not want to be part of a system that takes away a person’s ability at self determination, self defense and human dignity. Sadly enough, one’s dignity is the first thing sacrificed when you enter a hospital and have to put on the gown that ties in the back.
As I stated last week: There is no reaction like over reaction and govt. agencies tend to over react in a big way.
Most of us show our complete dissatisfaction with Red Flag laws. Even many of us who no longer have any weapons or just one or two laying around. All due to horrible boating accidents where our stash was lost. Cry, Cry!
Okay, I cave. I’m turning in all my DVD’s that depict gun violence.
The people who scream the loudest about gun violence are the actors who make those movies that have gun violence in every scene.
Does this mean that all Hollywood movies depicting gun violence will no longer be seen on T.V., in theaters, online, DVD’s, etc.?
Are there red flag laws against those movies?
– Red Flag laws? Absolutely an end run around the Constitution, no if’s, ands, or buts. That is my take on it.
– Papa S.
“He that soweth the wind, shall reap the Whirlwind”.
“The only reason the NRA exists is because five million people decided they needed to protect their constitutional rights.
The NRA doesn’t exist to kill people, that’s Planned Parenthood…THAT exists to kill people, little babies in the womb. But Joe Biden doesn’t have a problem with that. And, that’s not a special interest, of course, that’s a choice, don’t you know? It’s a deeply held view! And only women can have a view on that, men can’t!
So, we have groups like Planned Parenthood that exist to destroy human babies in the womb.
The NRA doesn’t believe in that, the NRA doesn’t do that.” –Mark Levin.
Get ready for a war against the American socialists, who must be driven out of this country for the sake of our Liberty and the safety of our families.
Excellent Post Ision
Yes, the socialists need to be driven from this once great republic if we expect it to return to the intended greatness of the Founders!
The world has done gone crazy and we have a shit-storm on our hands with waaaaay too many who don’t care about Freedom and Liberty and are willing to live under socialist rule.
God Bless the Republic!
On Red flag Laws….
Ok so you have a complaint against me, by a no-named complainant(s).
Hand cuff me, take me in the pound, let me sit ’til trial date, what ever.
There is no reason while I complacently give myself to you/ in your coustody that you need to enter my home/property to be ransacked, destroyed searching for weapons, which may/maynot exist.
In the mean time, all home/property repairs will be at my expense, loss of employment, loss of raided property, attorney and trial costs.
Go ream Yourselves
This “Rule” could be fought to the core with the right attorneys.
Good article at PewTrusts (dot org) entitled “Red Flag Laws Spur Debate Over Due Process”
clip:
“Red flag laws have survived two major legal challenges. In one case, the Connecticut Appellate Court found in 2016 that the state’s red flag law “does not implicate the second amendment, as it does not restrict the right of law-abiding, responsible citizens to use arms in defense of their homes.”
Since the Second Amendment was the focus in both cases, said Kopel of the Independence Institute, there is still room to address due process.”
The light at the end of the tunnel is indeed a speeding train. Plan accordingly. Do not waste your time trumpeting on websites about your “Rights”. Newsflash: You have none. STFU. Go gray. The Mango Emperor is has already caved concerning a “Social Credit Score” system, vis-à-vis who can “own” a firearm. Res ipsa loquitur.
The Red Flag law is merely a means to an end, like the camel’s nose getting under the tent wall…..soon the rest of the camel will follow. Any gun confiscation will result in a major screw-up that will wind up killing someone’s grandma or grandpa; at that point the balloon goes up and people start shooting back.
It will get very ugly in a big damn hurry.
Oh, “they” have an immediate answer for that–just look at other countries that have outlawed guns. The victim becomes the perpetrator, and any attempt at self defense becomes an immediate assault charge. Look at the wording–grandpa killed invader trying to hurt grandma? “Need for knife control obvious as 80 year old assaults burglar using illegal weapon.”
Red flag laws? Social credit scores? Hate crime laws? They all have something in common. They all are dependent on someone’s or some group’s decision of what is acceptable behavior. The standards for acceptable behavior are not etched in stone like the Ten Commandments, rather, they are nebulous, ever changing. What is acceptable today might be worthy of being put outside the camp tomorrow.
Think of the Confederate Battle Flag, once a symbol of pride and history in the south, now, anybody displaying it is immediately looked upon as a racist, white supremacist, hater.
Think of the Betsy Ross Flag. A symbol of national pride, flown proudly when we celebrate the birth of these United States. Then, when one washed up NFL quarterback who has a lucrative contract with a sports shoe manufacture decides that putting that historic flag on their shoes is racist, they immediately ditch the idea. The flag suddenly becomes a divisive symbol. A symbol of patriotism for some, a symbol of hate and bigotry for others.
Now, this morning I read that Major League Soccer (evidently the soccer equivalent of the NFL) has declared the Betsy Ross flag as racist and will not allow it to be displayed by fans at their games.
Banning guns, flags, plastic straws, sugary drinks…..the list goes on forever. Loss of freedom and choice by people who claim to be the champions of freedom and choice.
All to be decided by whatever they decide is the boogy man today. Not rules etched in stone. No,…….. whatever pisses them off today.
No country can survive under those conditions.
“We do not live according to the emotional state of the constantly offended.”
Sorry, don’t know to whom the credit goes for that one.
the Scotsman : OOO I love that one.
There’s talk about a buyback program. How can they ” buyback ” what they didn’t sell in the first place 🤔
CR,
“How can they ” buyback ” what they didn’t sell in the first place”
Of course they can’t, but that has long been a linguistic tactic by the left. Commandeer the language, pervert the meaning to deceive the masses.
Embrace fascist methods? Call yourself anti-fascist or “anti-fa”. Declare the college campus a “free speech zone” then shut down any speech you disagree with. Gun confiscation? No it’s “mandatory gun buyback”.
“Mandatory gun buy back” presupposes that everything emanates from the government. That there is no such thing as natural, God given, or unalienable rights, only that can be handed down by a ruling body. Morality, right and wrong, good and bad is a fluid concept, never absolute, subject to change at any time……………until, of course, it conflicts with their perceptions and feelings. The tantrums and violence is always the correct response.
Make sense to you? It does to them. You will either accept their view…..or there will be a fight.
That most probably is their goal.
Hi Dennis
And what rubs even more salt into the wound is that if this comes to pass they are going to raise YOUR taxes to get the money to “buy back” YOUR guns.
And probably at a depreciated price.
And those taxes will have to cover the cost of the bureaucracy to manage that program.
The Socialists are growing more and more confident and they will continue to float these crazy ideas for new laws, some will happen some may just be campaign posturing.
But the facts remain, that each and every year more and more laws are enacted by this group of fools that We The People Continue to Elect year after year after year.
Many of you are not comfortable discussing what you personally are willing and able to do when johnny law comes knocking at your door, possibly a warrant in hand because some snowflake neighbor kid saw you pull out of Billy”s Local Emporium with a big black mean looking rifle.
If you haven’t thought about what you’d do, the time is getting nearer and nearer…
Only God can save this once great republic, we the people are (most of us anyway) are unwilling to do what needs to be done…
Think about it.
This will only worsen. Criminals will call in the security guard they need removed. Gangs will call in other gangs then attack.
There was a reason for due process and still is.
Since I am an ex-fed, I will never be able to become gray enough to hide from a government turned enemy. After all, they have my prints, blood, genetics, eye scans, photos, medical and dental records, psychological profile, training records, and my family history for the last ten generations. My financials are monitored and my travel is restricted and I am required to obtain permission before exiting the CONUS.
Both my parents are ex-feds, too. A nephew is a Fed, now. But, he is trying to get out, which is not such a simple thing as one might think. Doing so requires some inside cooperation with rank.
For decades I knew all this was coming, but I never thought the enemy would be as successful as they have been. The reason for my error is I stupidly over estimated the intellectual capacity of the American citizenry, confusing it with how I experience Existence.
For me, Socialism is simply an impossibility, an obvious irrationality, which Reason forbids. I guess, I failed to realize most of Humanity is simply prone to irrationality and at least half of us are interfacing with Reality with weak minds, weakened further with misinformation and lies.
Once Obama was elected, I knew it was over for America. His re-election, just confirmed this.
The dumb driven cattle of Humanity are being stampeded toward their Liberty’s end, with the Socialists whipping them on…even though they no longer need it.
Our enemies have taken off their gloves and are no longer standing in the shadows. It is time for them to do whatever is required to gain power.
If these Socialists are successful, I shall have no alternatives remaining. My name will be on their very first list. So, my time of peace shall be over.
Is a not so funny thought I had today.
I think I mentioned that I had purchased plywood and 2x’s to secure lower doors and windows. Have them precut and labeled. Stored in the basement.
My laugh is that of the use of them were to be of Shtf intruders, not that of my own gooberment’s unwanted intrusion.
Ahh what the hell, an enemy is an enemy. No matter how you slice it.
That Red Flag…is a Communist one.
Most of the concern about the red flag laws is they will used to take your guns away.
Along with that, but rarely mentioned, is that certain elements of the population will be immune to such confiscation due to anti-discrimination policies.
It was the previous president and his wingman at the department of justice that enacted these practices that prevented the police in Florida from nabbing the mass shooter in the Broward county high school, and I believe the shooter in the nightclub shooting also that had numerous warnings known by local police and the FBI.
If such confiscatory laws are passed there will be privileged individuals due to their race, religion or political beliefs that will be exempt. Guaranteed.
What we need is for folks that have been affected by these red flag laws to file a class action law suit in their state’s courts and hopefully we might get a ruling that these laws are unconstitutional. Should we get such a ruling that will pave the way to the supreme court at the federal level. We need the NRA, GOA, and all the other gun rights groups behind us, I believe we can win.
ThbeSouthernNationalist,
I agree with what you are saying and stand with you!
We continue to need more and more Freedom Loving Constitutionally minded Judges to be appointed and the commie judges to be impeached or removed as per the Constitution.
God Save This Once Great Republic
I agree. The only way to (potentially) stop it would be to get it the supreme court. Lawsuits like these require big money. That’s something that “the far left” seems to have plenty of (and .gov has unlimited money). That leaves us Patriots to be members of organizations like NRA, GOA, and others. It is always about the money. And these org’s need ours to lobby and to fight in court.
Just thinking out loud, but I wonder if anti-gun people own the majority of stock in firearm and ammunition companies? It seems that every time there’s more anti-gun or anti-2nd amendment talk in the news, gun and ammo sales go up. August 2019 set new records. September 2019 may be better. Just wondering.
CD in Oklahoma
Best sales person ever for firearms and ammo….
Obama.
Look it up.
Hi NRP
Waaaaaal, I don’t know. It was during Big O’s time but pretty sure the idea that Hil might be taking over was the impetus for someone close (cough cough) to me.
The threats on Red Flag legislation isn’t even 1 month old and now today, Colt is suspending production of rifles for consumers, including the AR-15s.
The reason: “changes in consumer demand and a market already saturated with similar weapons.”
Sure.
Modern Throwback,
I think Colt is telling the truth by citing “changes in consumer demand and a market already saturated with similar weapons”.
The number of manufacturers producing an AR platform rifle has grown tremendously over the past years since the Clinton Ban expired.
To a casual consumer who probably won’t put 1000 rounds thru his newly acquired AR, can buy a Palmetto State Armory AR15 under $500 vs a Colt LE6920 for $900 or more. Nothing wrong with the PSA firearm but not the quality of what Colt used to produce.
Every year there are new producers entering the semi auto sporting rifle market with lower overhead and the ability to produce an acceptable quality rifle for the casual firearm consumer.
Slippy Skippy, It is difficult to take their actions at face value because of what we see going on elsewhere. Colt is still under bankruptcy protection, aren’t they? Maybe it’s a corporate decision, but maybe they have been instructed to drop production of their “assault rifles”…I suppose we’ll never know but it will be important to be wary of any other manufacturer who declares they’ve halted AR15 production.
As we’ve been watching, if they can’t confiscate our firearms, they will prohibit or curtail ammo sales, primer/powder sales, and more. The Deep State REALLY wants to disarm us.
Modern Throwback,
I did a search about Colt’s bankruptcy status and it appears that they emerged from Bankruptcy in 2016.
As far as anyone or any entity instructing Colt to stop production of their civilian AR15 Platform rifle, I highly doubt that but I guess it is probable. I do know that right now I can buy a number of Colt AR15 Platform Colt Rifles. I’ll reach out to some of my FFL contacts and see what their suppliers have in inventory as well.
And Yes, I agree that there are many who want We The People disarmed and the tactics to do so will be many. Be vigilant and Molon Labe!
…..and I read a piece today.
Demicraps aren’t allowing redflag laws to account for gangbangers and overall known hoodlums.
Wow go figure.
I guess they assume they would be on the list
Joe C.,
So here’s a thought. Use the Red Flags laws to your advantage. If you suspect or know the hood rats have weapons. SWAT them. I bet if the hoodies have guns, they are illegally owned. Lets start using the Red Flag laws to our advantage. Once the demtards realize we are using the Red Flag laws against their constituents they might repeal.
From ammoland
“Rep. ‘Ken’ Buck. ‘(R-CO)’ told Tucker Carlson he was opposed to the “Red Flag” bill being passed at all. His amendment was to point out the hypocrisy, to show the Democrats want to take guns from people without criminal convictions, but who demand full due process for the people most likely to be involved in violent crimes.
The amendment pointed out the hypocrisy of the Left. The Committee Chairman, Representative Nadler, said a taking guns from a person, for simply being on a database, would violate due process. Red flag laws require less evidence than probable cause for law enforcement officials. They only require an accusation of the potential of a threat.”
Just read “Dems Veto Red Flag Laws For Gangbangers” over on American Thinker and I have thoughts.
americanthinker.com/articles/2019/09/dems_veto_red_flag_law_for_gangbangers.html
Red flag laws are just one tool on the belt of the communists who have been trying to take over this country for a century now. Their goal is a populace unable to form or support militias to resist them. They are at work in the actions of every democrat from left of center to far far left. Especially that knucklehead Robert Francis “we’ll take your guns”. Beto for America? More like Beto for America’s Enemies! And that give ‘em up or we’ll nuke you nutcase.
They do not care about the poor, the young, minorities, the cities where they have been in power for years, or any of the enumerated freedoms for all. If they did, they would do everything in their power to remove guns from the criminal element, and put those criminals away for as long as possible. Instead they are fostering homelessness, decriminalizing the majority of crimes, and placing more school children at risk by limiting weapons.
Now that police have been prevented from confronting them, antifa is becoming increasingly armed; just read about the John Brown Gun Clubs springing up. If they are allowed to gather outside your house to protest you, and the police don’t come to protect you, when they show up with weapons next time, will there be any police showing up then? Not if the libsider authorities have anything to say about it. Not if those in inner cities now targeting LEOs have their way.
The urban hellholes are being ignored right now, except for a handful of conservatives who are doing what they can and being publicly pilloried for their efforts. This allows the commies in socialist’s clothing to concentrate on deweaponizing the law-abiding and then impoverishing them through massive taxation; that money to be tossed down a rathole, except for the portion that winds up in the pockets of the select few in favor.
People joke that Medicare for All should be called VA for All. Take a closer look at history and realize Indian Health Service for All is more like it.
We must resist red flag laws. We must disconnect “mental illness”, especially among veterans, from the murder rate. A handful of pathetic losers and an occasional terrorist go on a rampage over the course of a year and folks forget that in gang territories this happens every weekend and every holiday. Any loss of an innocent, and most gun murders are of young people, is a tragedy.
Lists of gang members, as well as terrorist watch lists, should be the first go-to for those seeking to reduce the gun murder rate in this country.
Rant for the day. Now off to the Downton Abbey movie.
It’s about to get (more) sporty, ole chaps.
In God We Trust
And that His Hand shall Guide us All through what is forthcoming.
We The People
Revisiting the “Red Flag Laws” debate.
We are currently watching the drama unfold on the “whistle blower” complaint against Trump concerning what was said during a phone conversation with the Ukrainian president. “Red Flag”?
First reports were that the complaint came from someone who overheard the conversation. “Red Fag”, something has got to be done…….and quickly! Preconceived notions kick in, rumors of what Trump said, what he demanded, screaming that laws were broken. Rabid calls for impeachment, destroy Trump before he destroys the country.
Days of anger and demands for action, now we’ve got him, got to destroy him……….then we find that the “whistle blower” (red flagger?) didn’t actually hear the conversation in question, he had only heard about what was said from a third party. That’s what is known as “hearsay” in a court of law. “Hearsay” is not evidence, it’s gossip.
That’s why we have what is called “due process”. Due process ensures us against being punished without having a chance to answer the charges against us first. Not be found guilty because of gossip.
Watch how this latest charge against Trump plays out. Watch the actors, pay attention to their rhetoric. Then ask yourself if you want to give up your protections against tyranny of the “gossip”. Then you will see “red flag” confiscation of guns for what it is.
Just an old man musing out loud.
Typo on “Red Flag” in 3rd paragraph. Not intentional.
Yea,
But Dennis, you know as well as I that there are different rules for liberal judges and polititians and LEOs,
This is exactly why Due Process was put in place. Our Forefathers lived through that already. That slippery slope started with Domestic Violence Laws though where even the accused can no longer carry a weapon including LEOs. They are put on admin duties until it’s resolved.
This is something to be fought for just like any other right.
Dennis
Yes, I watched the P get all fussy about HE could have broken the law we are going to try him for impeachment. WELL, really???!!
Someone was stating treason on news show, which they had no idea of what it really takes to file that against anyone let alone a setting President.
This really ramped up after Trumps speech at the UN where he stated that our country would “never” be socialist, nor would we abandon our 2nd amendment to satisfy other countries.
AC
Was there not a saying that went something like “show me the man and I will show you the crime”
They will keep looking until they find something, anything, true or not – we could loose the President because of a jaywalking infraction or him tearing off a mattress tag.
hermit us
Will it take those who support him to invade that sinking/stinking swamp back east?
There are more of us then they realize, a visual show of deplorable’s over swamp dwellers-trump every time.
While that sounds fun and all, about as fun as a heart attack,
Stay away from crowds!
There is not one single politician worth exposing yourself that much.
Pick you fight, your battle ground and your weapons wisely, that toe to toe stuff went out with the British!
Just MHO
Kulafarmer
If they can gather a bunch at Area 51 for weekend of fun & games. Why not the same principal to get butts in to the swamp for a meet & how do you do session.
There are time shares about an hour out of the swamp that can be rented for a very reason amount. We used to have a time share back there. Because of acdh’s health issues our traveling was totally curtailed, so we were able to vacate from that club.
AC
I would gladly take a trip to DC next summer in support of the President and the Constitution. One week would be a very little sacrifice in support of the country. All I need is a place to park my RV trailer because I’m not a high roller politician that can afford those hotel rates.