CoronaVirus 2019-nCoV | No Symptoms 14-Days | What Could Go Wrong?

Today’s topic is this. The 2019-nCoV coronavirus is new. Humans have no immunity defense. Worse yet, the virus is highly contagious (and deadly) while exhibiting NO SYMPTOMS for up to 14 days!

So, lets put our heads together and identify some of the worst places for humans to be –given that people may be in proximity to one another while unkowingly SHEDDING THE VIRUS for 14 days.

The following thoughts are not intended to panic. Rather, a logical thought process regarding a deadly virus that doesn’t show symptoms for weeks. And a brainstorm of some worse places to be while in its highly contagious phase — all the while undetected…

My thinking is about places where people are together for longer periods of time. This would increase the likelihood of contagion.

CoronaVirus Danger | Schools

When the ordinary flu gets real bad, localities will shut down schools for a time. With the 2019-nCoV coronavirus, schools will be going along just fine, for weeks, until there is even a hint of a problem. By then, too late. There’s going to be a lot of infected humans.

CoronaVirus Danger | The Workplace

How many people do you know who go to work while sick? Lots. It’s bad enough when other people come to work while sick and spread it to others. But can you imagine a 14-day asymptomatic period while shedding the deadly 2019-nCoV coronavirus? How long until the workplace figures out that it’s affecting everyone? The answer is weeks later. And then it’s too late. Practically everyone’s got it by then.

CoronaVirus Danger | Air Travel

I recently posted about the notion of “super-spreader” airports. It doesn’t take much in the way of brain cells to understand the potential risk of hundreds flying together in small cylindrical tubes for many hours on end… all over the world.

CoronaVirus Danger | Cruise Ships

Thousands of people together on a cruise. How many times have we heard of noravirus or some other sickness contagion on a cruise ship?! Now can you imagine coronavirus?? Up to 14 days with no symptoms. So, during this early stage of 2019-nCoV, there could be high contagion on a cruise, “if” others on board were shedding virus. No one would connect the dots until many weeks later…

These are just a few of the scenarios that popped into my head while thinking about the long incubation period of this deadly virus while showing no symptoms.

I hope I’m very wrong about this. But I have a feeling that this is going to go real bad. Why? Because China has stopped the release of on-the-street information there – as of 48 hours ago of this writing. Now it’s “state-information” only. There are more than 50 million there under quarantine and countless infected and dead. That we know of…

The predictable mainstream news media here in the US has downplayed this right from the start. In fact many of them are going out of their way to say that they are so NOT concerned, bla bla bla… to the extent that it’s obvious they’re countering the notion of public concern.

The WHO and CDC are POLITICAL run organizations. Do you put your ‘complete’ trust in what they’re saying? I don’t…

This is a preparedness site. I feel obligated to point these things out. Get prepared. Prepare to self isolate. If it turns out to be nothing, you will have lost nothing by preparing ahead with consumable supplies to get you through.

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350 Comments

  1. Think about an infected mail carrier. Each piece of mail will have the potential to infect someone, maybe everyday for two weeks. I wonder if microwaving your mail would help with this ;) ?

    Until we know more real information, not propaganda, the best thing is to avoid crowds. Use the grace period we are in to top off your preps. Many articles on many sites give guidance on what will be useful, reread them.

    Be alert but don’t panic. This isn’t a movie and the virus isn’t “Captain Trip”. The next few weeks will tell the real story for good or bad!

    1. I’ve been thinking I am lucky to be retired and able to stay home until the pandemic passes. your comment about mail is scary, but, I think the virus wouldn’t live outside the human body.

      1. DaisyK, To keep this thread on topic…. any gathering beyond people you know have not traveled/contacted others. That includes even church services, grocery stores, drug stores, dollar stores. flea markets, second hand stores. Use every possible precaution if you have any thought of needing extra protection., from any contamination…ie seasonal flu? stomach virus.?
        The virus lives in carpet/soft surfaces for 7 weeks. Heat kills it. info i heard was over 75 degrees for 48 hours.Thus a winter release is more deadly.
        Doorknobs, phones, keypads can hold for 5 days… i have been scouring for transmission info.. do not remember where i got this piece….
        Remember it is a viral. peroxide will kill it. food grade peroxide- takes a lot of water to a few drops of fg peroxide/35%… to be effective.
        I will be spraying all our mail with antiviral spray. after removing it from box with gloves and placing it in a plastic bag…. once dry. the microwave sounds like a good followup option if certain no electronic strip in it. once summer gets here should remove many organisms.. sun is a great disinfectant.

        1. Just Sayin’,

          I have been thinking about this bit on how to kill the virus by holding it at 75f for over 48 hours. if that is the case, how is it living in bodies at 98.6F???? I realize the virus in the body has a nice place to live. But if a temperature over 75F kills it, something does not seem right about this.. Maybe I am missing something???? Maybe being in an oxygen atmosphere over 75F for 48 hours kills it?
          BTW, thanks for all your support and help with the herbal remedies. big help there.

          1. Minerjim, I am thinking..( and everyone else here should be also considering what they can and need to do.. how we will improvise with supplies we have…and boost any shortages..).. that info was presented. ..as true and right….Was part of one of the scientists reports, way beyond my pay grade.I have been searching for information- for our family, and passing on what answers am finding, as they seem reasonable.. When others post it dies easily outside the body that info is wrong… it could lead to others making bad decisions and exposing themselves un necessarily…
            … We will have no way to check ( heat killing treatment)until someone does it and it either works or doesn’t. This is beyond my experience., just been researching for every piece of information that fits with rest, of what i am finding. Some i can not discern whether true or not, example. This is a RNA virus..some say it is mutating, some say it is not.??? Information is mostly consolidating. ..number of cases/ deaths in China is no where near correct. The crematoriums were over run with bodies.They were ones who squalked. Organ shut down, massive organ failure, and pneumonia… all can be listed as cause of death instead of flu… to skew numbers…
            I t is …Possible that temps of 75 in DRY environment would dry it up., breaking the “shell” on each molecule and causing death of virus.PLUS
            .High oxygen is considered to be controlling to bacteria, virals and other un wanted organisms in the body…
            ..That s why they do high oxygen treatments for wound care and for other healg treatments.
            .Higher temps of our bodies is moist and when present would be feeding on us. ..sugars, glucose in bodies…etc.
            There is also ultraviolet light and ozone makers that produce heavy oxygen molecules and kill all kinds of gunk.In summer, hanging things in sunshine for a day… especially if sun is as intense as it was last year.
            There is another channel on you tube i found today “Jeremy See”
            Glad to help where i can. take care and the precaution level you are comfortable with prevention is certainly better than having this stuff.

          2. Its designed to live in the body, inside your cells. It takes over your cells.
            So 75 degrees outside the body, which is a hostile environment, for them.

          3. My thought it was 75 degrees C (About 167 degrees F) but time will tell.

          4. Heat “kills” viruses and bacteria by denaturing genetic material and proteins. Think of cooking an egg. This is why our body uses fever as a defense mechanism. But that fever is dangerous and can cause the same damage to our cells. The 75F you mentioned does not sound like it came from an accurate source. Did they mean 75C? Hope this helps clarify.

      2. DaisyK…I have read it can live on hard surfaces one to two weeks. Also, read that only sure thing to kill it is alcohol. And as Ken stated, I have read on different news sites/different journalists, it can take 14 days before any symptoms show.

        1. I say if alcohol is the only solution, then if we fill up on alcohol we kill the virus in us before it grows! Simplest solution.

      3. I don’t want to scare people, but it can live for hours and possibly longer, that’s one of the major reasons it is spreading.

        1. the reason the coronavirus is multiplying is due to the fact that people are stupid and are not doing the simple things of washing their hands and staying home. I am a microbioligist and people are stupid and just like the bubonic plague we still have states that have not shut down their cities we all pay the price. let the virus run it’s course and open businesses now. some will die, but not like the influenza has infected us the last century. You cannot stop life. Why are we scared. we all die. let it happen. the chinese government are a dictatorship and liars. I do not trust them period. educate yourself america. this is not our last pandemic.

          1. Dr Nelson

            I believe they are, as you say, letting the virus run it’s course. The mitigation process isn’t intended to stamp it out. We missed that train. It’s so we can catch up to the virus before the hospitals and you and your colleagues get overrun. It’s currently projected to kill over 200,000 with mitigation. That’s a damn sight better than the 2 million projected if we do nothing.

      4. I saw on the news it can live on cardboard for 24 hours so I’m thinking mail is not exempt !

    2. Deep South and DaisyK:
      I agree with Nuking the Mail.
      Make sure your new CC is not in there….
      But let that stuff fry for a minute or so.

    3. I thought of that as well. mail carriers could be the harbormasters of the virus and they wouldn’t know it themselves.

      I suppose you can use gloves to handle your mail (letters and bills) then microwave your mail and boil or microwave your gloves every day.

      I always get food stuffs early when stores open and wear gloves always. Less people, less risk. Problem I have with checkers years ago one sneezed while I was unloading groceries, and she coughed right at me. I caught her cold. Now if I see a checker with sniffles or watery eyes, I leave my cart and get out of the store, and go to another store. Sick contagious people should not be at work.

    4. I keep a can of Lysol and thoroughly spray mail and packages prior to handling without gloves. Hope this helps!

      1. Lowell, I do the same with the mail. I get it from the box with gloves, spray it with Lysol and then let it dry. Nothing is that important that I need to open it immediately.

    5. Hello Deep South. My husband is a package carrier and handles over 100 parcels a day. How should he disinfect before entering our home?

      1. Kelly
        It appears the group missed your request.

        Do you have an entrance where he can take off his other clothing put into the washing machine? Then sponge bath the skin areas which are exposed, with soap & water. At work he should be wearing latex gloves-nitrile and if he is in an enclosed area a mask. At least an N95 or greater N-100, an as many have mentioned close fitting to the exposed skin for protection.
        Check out the references by me2, an Just Sayin for health preventatives. There are others so just skim through the posting, there is great information, just have to look for it.

      2. Thanks Antique Collector I was busy and missed Kelly’s request.

        Most of the information your seeking has been posted in the “How to survive a pandemic” article.

        Grateful that Kelly’s husband is doing his Job both at work and now after getting HOME to protect his family.

      3. Kelly,

        You might want to research how long viruses live on various kinds of surfaces–porous versus nonporous. When they say the flu can live on surfaces for up to X hours, they mean a sterile nonporous surface (the ideal surface for keeping viruses alive). Mail is typically a porous surface. Viruses do not live as long on porous surfaces.

    6. Do not microwave your mail or papers. The temp it would take to destroy a virus would cause the paper to ignite. If you’re the fearful, use gloves to retrieve and open, then throw away the envelops/packages. Though many if not most, wear gloves to not damage their hands as well. Be careful and be smart.

      1. ceaser,

        Folks worried about covid-19 contaminated mail. According to CDC, temps of 167 degrees F kills all virus. Paper has an auto-ignition (spontaneous combustion, flash point, etc.) of 451 degrees F. I see no reason that placing mail in an over set at, say, 250 degrees for a few minutes would not be safe and effective.

        Not recommending it, but I would use that method myself, if I felt it necessary.

        1. P.S.- For what it’s worth, it’s highly doubtful the majority of your mail was ever touched by human hands other than the one delivering it to your mail box, unless it’s a personal correspondence.

      1. Raid???? It kills bugs, but I’m not sure it kills bacteria. I wouldn’t want to get that on my hands.

  2. I’m not doing much shopping but when I do it’s in the wee hours of the morning when there are no crowds. I now ask the clerk to drop my receipt and change into the bag. Lord only knows how many hands have touched the money.

    I think President Trump should stop all international travel into the country by all conveyances period. It is the best way to check the spread
    of this disease.

  3. Well hell I’m screwed! got 2 little booger monsters to deal with, luckily in private school vs. the cesspool public schools.. Still that virus will rip right through all school systems

    Right now I am war gaming Virus/flu management. When we get contaminated…
    I am setting up with stores of Ibuprofin, ORS, Immune Boosters, Zantac-D, anti-diarrhea meds… Also Methods for Rectal re-hydration with ORS. Basically covering the management of symptoms related.. to the virus. Also have all my sanitary needs covered. Including construction a clean room and and decontamination room etc.

    Right now I am trying figure on timing when to pull the kids out of school when this shtf.
    I am thinking once it is apparent that this has spread into large Urban centers. Even before the Hospitals start to get overwhelmed or even before the urban schools are shut down?

    Any Feedback or input would be appreciated. Not sure right now?

    1. White Cracker
      Coronavirus is a virus that involves the respiratory system. Bronchitis and pneumonia are not uncommon — prepare for those two illnesses as best you can.
      Do you have a vaporizer?
      Vicks VapoRub (has Eucalyptus in the salve)
      Cough medication for the ages you are concerned with
      Elderberry tincture or syrup

      Learn the symptoms of pneumonia so that you can get to a doctor asap. I was caught unaware and had pneumonia after H1N1, but I didn’t know the symptoms.

      Boost immunity starting now: vitamins and supplements. Be careful with the rug-rats…some supplements shouldn’t be administered to children (safe items are the basic vitamins for children, Tang powdered drink, etc).

      Have some ‘favorite foods’ on hand, esp for children. Anything that will provide liquid will be beneficial, even Jello, popsicles, ice cream, soda, or Ramen Noodles. Gotta keep the kiddos hydrated if they get sick.

      I hope your family is spared….

      1. thanks for the info it is helpful, kids meds are covered right now no problems.. we are practicing even better hygiene procedures.
        1. Shoes off outside Soon to be clothing too.
        2. hand sanitizer at the door
        3. washing hands 30 seconds scrubbing with soap. Will change to full shower and scrub down.
        4. fresh clothing
        5. Place kid in plastic bubble… just kidding… well for now at least 😁

        1. White cracker,
          Look up home made sanitizers… can make with basic ingredients.. using water, mouthwash and little cooking oil with some essential oils.like oregano, peppermint, thieves, etc.. more effective than straight alcohol based ones.cheaper in the long run… 8 oz bottle requires about 2 oz mouthwash a few drops of olive oil to mix essential oils you choose in., fill with water.. then put in bottle and shake well before each application. oregano is my fav. ( there are several ppl that have posted their recipes.) my go to…. could smell worse than spaghetti..

        2. White Cracker., for one extra layer….on children if school age i would make up a weak..oil rub. with 2 tbsp olive oil, 4-6 drops of oil of oregano and 3 drops of peppermint essential oil – this is half strength to 1/ strength of what i used on adult w/ pneumonia… worked as decongestant and antiviral…. and rub on their feet at night. esp the bottoms. put socks on them.

          1. white cracker.. edit of above. explanation. number is missing this blend is 1/2 to 1/3 the strength i used on adult and was effective.. i used 15 oil of oregano and 9/peppermint. to same amt of oil.for adult with no lower breath sounds bilaterally. I did need a suction machine..and had that. DM had been set home to die and we lost the memo. also used Garlic/prepared for allicin release in ACV. used solution off of it.8-10 cc.

      2. Oil of Oregano also a good anti-viral and anti-bacterial. Can be taken in pill form, very good albeit expensive brand is Oreganol. It can be taken as a prophalactic and also if you begin to notice symptoms – of anything, seasonal flu, bacterial infections, etc. Hope this information is useful. Cheers!

        1. Lowell, i use oregano also for chronic lyme. lomatium highly anti viral. both can be used in hand/area sanitizers.m ix oil of oregano in sm amt cooking oil add ro a spray bottle of mostly water with strong alcohol.. shake welll w/ each use. .

  4. On the subject of infection passing on flights, just read that American Airlines pilots union is suing the airline to stop China flights. But how many have already been made on the last couple weeks?

    How many potential virus carriers changed planes to continue a journey after their China leg? And what kind of germ fest would any plane be once a carrier rode on it? And the flight attendants for and seat mates of an infected person? I’m surprised we aren’t already seeing some of those folks getting sick… may still be to come with this longer incubation period?

    1. I was in Hong Kong and then Bangkok a couple of months ago. All I can say is that personal hygiene is not what it is in the States – and people are clueless enough here.

  5. How about a little levity? A coworker just sent me a picture from a grocery store in China today. One old man in line had fashioned a respirator from a woman’s brassiere; one cup inside the other, straps pulled tight behind his ears. It took me a second to figure it out; I choked on mineral water when it hit me.

    1. tmc, a good example of using what is available to make what is required. can be sterilized and re used.. .

  6. Folks, do NOT put your mail in the microwave. Microwaves have exhaust fans that will push potential spores all through the kitchen area. Think about popcorn. When you microwave it the aroma is in the kitchen and beyond. Mail is a real danger because mail comes from different locations here and from abroad. I’m filling spray bottles with 91% rubbing alcohol and misting my mail.

    I’m convinced the virus is a biological weapon that was accidentally released from a BSL-4 laboratory located in Wuhan city proper. This laboratory has accidentally released viruses 4 times in the past and I believe they did it again. I saw a video of a middle aged man on a subway car or bus vomit a huge amount of blood onto the floor while the car was moving. He died in seconds. This is way to fast for a natural virus to attack the organs in my opinion. Having attended numerous NBC classes in the Army and National Guard I can recall other bio weapons acting very similar to this. When you develop bio weapons you strive to infect as many people as possible. The longer the incubation period the more mass casualties.

    The last R0 ( R naught) figures I saw from researchers was 1.9 – 5.1 which means the infected individual will pass the virus to 1.9 to possibly 5.1 other individuals. This is way past serious. Top off your preps ASAP and surf numerous sites to get a sense of what is really happening. Stay informed. Any vets with recent NBC training please update this comment for us. Thanks

    1. 19D40, Thanks for posting… that was my thought as to source… aware of the closeness of facility. next thought was” if accidental vs purposeful ” . antiviral spray… my first use choice. this is a virus.. and if manufactured …may have other components requiring strongest antiviral…available…

      1. And I got the news from a couple doctors including relatives…most sources saying its a bio weapon are from Far Right and much of those stories in the past were debunked. It isn’t that its not possible. Just Very unlikely.

    2. 199D40

      The microwave comment was a little tongue in cheek but a virus is not like anthrax. NO spores. Actually RF or microwaves are used in some methods of sterilization.

      1. So put the mail in a sealed bottle and pressure 20 minutes… ROFL

        Don’t stress it, and everybody needs to use their freakin’ BRAIN. Use gloves, junk mail goes straight in the garbage, anything important stays out in the sun for three days. Set up your bills for automatic bill-pay and let friends know to e-mail you. How often do you get important stuff in the mail anyway?

      2. Deep South and others.. Bake it? stick in hot oven….there are many uses for a cookie sheet… short bake time? guess we will need junk mail to experiment to keep from burning up. what we want to read… LOL

    3. I am going with an R naught of about 4 after reading a pretty solid modeling article: Effective Reproduction Number of 2019-nCoV published by a few Hong Kong and Chinese scientists (google Xhidong Cao as first name listed on publication, should be able to find it). No, the article is not peer reviewed because information is coming very fast and changing day to day.

      As well, looks like about 70% of victims are male due to ACE2 receptors in lungs etc. in males at about 5 while in females are about 2-4. Might be relevant to the men out there to know that they may be at higher risk than women. It is well accepted that this was the case with SARS, and this new virus shares a ton of the same bat genome info. As for the possibility of a lab breech, hey it could happen for sure. That being said, Mother Nature is a very elegant architect and plays no favorites.

      1. Lowell
        ” 70% of victims are male due to ACE2 receptors in lungs etc. in males at about 5 while in females are about 2-4″ —-
        so– males have more or bigger ACE2 receptors in lungs?

  7. One possible thing to add to your preps is baking soda. When the Spanish Flu Pandemic of 1918 went global, one group of health care professionals were able to stave off the effects of the virus by drinking baking soda mixed with water. Viruses and other bugs cannot live in the human body if you have a high alkaline pH. I apologize for not adding any references, as I read this a long time ago. FWIW, this is something which should be followed up on.

    Keep in mind this contagion presented itself in Wuhan back in December. The Chinese are not like the poverty-stricken, ignorant, and superstitious Africans in the grip of Ebola. They have money and are able to travel. Ask yourselves, how many flew the coop before Xmas? Keep your weather eyes open if you live in a Blue Hive with a Chinatown. That is where it will start presenting itself. Think of Monterey Park, CA, SFO, the Reno-Carson City area, and Vancouver, BC. Loads of Chinese. Closed-mouth and tight-knit communities. Just saying.

    1. The Patient ZERO for this outbreak had to have been infected in NOVEMBER…not December. This patient was showing symptoms of the pathogen when he was diagnosed at the very beginning of December, so was infected in November. His wife got it too…and neither of them were linked in any way to the Marketplace everyone wanted to be source.

      The Chinese Bio Warfare Lab in Wuhan is about 20 miles from this marketplace..but the virus was brought to it before anyone was infected there.

      This looks like a weaponized virus. It could have been an accidental release…or a deliberate release. If deliberate, the vaccine for it is already in existence. If accidental, it could have been related to the Canadian pathogens the Chinese agents stole from them. Since the Chinese government acted very quickly to lock down so many cities, so early…Patient Zero could have direct links to their Wuhan Bio Lab.

      Disease is the best option to cull populations. It has the least political hazard.

      1. Ision, check out channel deep south bama w/ Mr tom. he has a vid tonight tells about Germanys first cases. He goes thru the graph item by item…points out what he sees. cases were followed from exposure and their viral load was checked after symptoms gone. still were shedding virus… SOOOOO not good.

      1. Mrs. U, baking soda is safer than this virus. for everyone.
        some sites recommend very small amounts of 1/8th tsp as effective alkaline.Every prevention/treatment we use must be done at first thought of exposure. NOT symptoms.. May be hard choices for a lot of ppl. Just Thinkin’

        1. Check out Dr. Gregor’s site at Nutritionfacts.org..Baking soda does not raise blood pressure like regular salt and helps to lower cholesterol. If it curbs the virus, all the better.

    2. Here’s a link for diseases and alkalinity.

      naturalfoodpantry.ca/blogs/mind-body/no-disease-can-exist-in-an-alkaline-environment

  8. well, maybe you all want to not travel to Canada…Contrary to other countries, and China’s own findings, Canada govt and health folks seem convinced it is not contagious if no symptoms are showing…Been many news reports of “folks released because no symptoms” etc etc….

    “Ontario’s Chief Medical Officer of Health, Dr. David Williams, has said that people who are not showing symptoms of the virus are likely not contagious and the risk of spreading the infection only arises once symptoms start to appear”

    and

    “Canada’s chief public officer of health Theresa Tam told a news conference that a Toronto man, who is the first person in the country to test positive for the SARS-like coronavirus, was symptomatic on an airplane last week that arrived in Toronto from Guangzhou”….

    apparently, only within (according to Canada) two meters IF symptoms are showing…???? (myself have read that airborne sneeze /cough droplets can travel twenty to forty feet)
    “Health officials are working to contact passengers seated within a two-metre radius of the man to inform them of the risks and advise them to monitor for the development of any symptoms.”

    etc etc

    1. Ignorance and deliberate falsehoods abound about this pandemic, which is NOT like Sars…nor the common Flu. Sars was an upper respiratory attacker…coronavirus is not. Sars victims had to be symptomatic to infect others…coronavirus does not. The R-O factor of Sars, and the common Flu, is MUCH LESS…than coronavirus. The mortality rate of the corornavirus is unknown…nor will it be known, until this virus outbreak is complete. One cannot divide the known deaths into the known infected to obtain the mortality rate for coronavirus, like so many twits think.

      It appears contact with skin is sufficient for infection, its just direct contact with mucous membranes makes it easier for the virus.

      There shall be millions of people dead and social upheaval with this pandemic, worse than 1918, worse than the movie “Contagion,” worse than a bad sci-fi paperback.

  9. A tenth of the people at my workplace went to a large conference last week. They met with a lot of people; there was a lot of shaking hands as they were making contacts. A large contingent of the people they were meeting with were from China. Now I’m at work with them! I wash my hands regularly and try not to touch my face. I’m trying to go to bed early so that I’m well-rested, and I’m eating things that are good for me. I need the job and haven’t been there long enough to have any sick days (much less a bank of them) that I can use to just not show up for a while. While I have everything I need to stay home for a good long time, it’s not ideal if I get the virus before that time comes. I hope and I pray this doesn’t become a true pandemic.

    1. Wendy eat garlic heavily., take oil of oregano. look at the other thread on herbal remedies, and if they work… a lot of info there.

  10. Can you shut your front door..and not open it again for 90 days? How about 180?

    Why go out of your home to buy food..which is not going to be there?

      1. kula.. makes one glad to be rural, to “able to shut the gates” and tend to own business does it not? I am glad that i would be able to go out in sunshine and rain… those poor people in cities will go stir crazy sitting in house.. and unable to leave.

    1. Ision:
      First question… yes more like 1-2 years, even for water.
      2nd question, see question #1.
      Hence we prepare

    2. Exactly! This is why we have prepared for the SHTF events.
      Once the fresh foods like apples, potatoes, and onions have been eaten, we will be eating veggies from freezer bags and #10 cans.

      For us, the mail isn’t really an issue because 99% is junk mail. I pay our bills online and it really does cut down on the incoming stuff. Maybe people should consider switching over to online payments for now. And it doesn’t take much to put a “hold” on incoming mail, either.

      1. Folks ever hear of the phrases “Spring the Starving Season” because the root cellar was almost empty?

        Or “Don’t eat your Seed Corn”?

        Before Just in time trucked-flown in foods brought in from everywhere food was VERY Local.

        Got seeds for 2+ years on hand? Amazon or Gurneys might not be available if this REALLY goes sidewise.

        Keep a couple of those potatoes for chitting so you’ll HAVE seed potatoes friends. If you don’t have onion seeds do you have some garlic bulbs on hand that you can KEEP for planting?

        Potatoes, sweet potatoes (sweet potato leaves makes good cooked greens too) can be chitted, Heads of cabbage can actually be re-planted an X cut on the top to reveal fresh leaves and often a flower stalk will occur and SEEDS!, Dry beans maybe a few should get sprouted for viability before you cook them up for chili? Whole beets can also be planted for seeds.

        For my 94 year olds food and water isn’t the main issue MEDICATIONS that you cannot buy ahead will be a real problem in about 90 days.

        The WINDOW of action is closing IF this really is a Pandemic or Bio-weapon.

        Think carefully buy seeds and DON”T Eat your Seed Corn friends.

        1. Me2
          A few other things that can grow from the bag in the super market or your stash…
          Amaranth
          Quinoa
          Sunflower seeds
          Some peanuts (unsalted in shell)
          Cellery can re root
          Onions can regrow
          Garlic
          Ginger
          Turmeric
          Galangal (like ginger)
          Popcorn
          Almost all dry beans and some organic whole lentils
          Theres a lot
          Personally, im going to be pushing the garden and wild edibles

          1. Good stuff Kulafarmer! so I guess “Don’t eat your seed corn” rings true again?

        2. I’m running a test at the moment. Some potatoes had started to sprout. I took the sprouts off and stuck them in the dirt. So far, so good.

          At least a possibility if you need to eat those potatoes.

        3. Some things can be grown in a sunny window or under a simple grow light. sunlight bulb.
          …all kinds of greens( 3-4 weeks?)can begin to pull biggest leaves.
          , radishes( light,fertilize-water and many will be ready to pull in 35 days.).. sweet potato vines.. can be ready 6-8 weeks/begin pulling biggest young leaves.after about a foot long., then plant..when temp is right.
          Is cold then hot, low was 19 last week this week in 55s… here and wild greens are already coming up.. wild onions and dandelion.. big enough to pull enough to give green veggies….sage has fresh leaves on it, giving it some protection with clear grow bag…forsythia is blooming already not fully – way too early.
          . .. mini green house can be made from a plastic tote turned upside down. using lid for base and a bag of potting soil cut open, one side.. and seeded.

        4. And people…read an article on sprouting. They are amazingly nutrient dense. You can store ball jars of broccoli seeds etc. and sprout them a couple of times a week. Literally, if you have a protein and fat source you can cruise along just fine with sprouts. All you need is a little water and a dark place and voila. You might get sick of them, but you can grow them in your cupboard and they will keep you quite healthy! Cheers

          1. Lowell, even stuff like garbonzo beans, mung beans, radishes, onions, all have slightly different flavor profiles,
            tacos
            Hand made rustic tortillas, taco seasoned rehydrated de hydrated meat crumbles
            Dehydrated or freezedried cheese
            Alfalfa sprouts
            Radish sprouts
            Lots of em
            Taco sauce

  11. Via Alerts USA:

    SMS Alert Text:

    USGOV issues Level 4 Travel Advisory (Do Not Travel) for China due to novel coronavirus 2019-nCoV. More via email.

    Supplemental Info:

    Travel Advisory
    China – Level 4: Do Not Travel
    January 30, 2020

    Do not travel to China due to novel coronavirus first identified in Wuhan, China. On January 30, the World Health Organization has determined the rapidly spreading outbreak constitutes a Public Health Emergency of International Concern. Travelers should be prepared for travel restrictions to be put into effect with little or no advance notice. Commercial carriers have reduced or suspended routes to and from China.

    Those currently in China should consider departing using commercial means. The Department of State has requested that all non-essential U.S. government personnel defer travel to China in light of the novel coronavirus.

    In an effort to contain the novel coronavirus, the Chinese authorities have suspended air, road, and rail travel in the area around Wuhan and placed restrictions on travel and other activities throughout the country. On January 23, 2020, the Department of State ordered the departure of all non-emergency U.S. personnel and their family members from Wuhan. The U.S. government has limited ability to provide emergency services to U.S. citizens in Hubei province.

    The U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) has issued a Warning for all of China.

    travel.state (dot) gov/content/travel/en/traveladvisories/traveladvisories/
    china-travel-advisory.html

    1. Now you see it, now you don’t! Link above doesn’t seem to work.

      This one takes you to a map with China in red = do not travel
      When you click on “more info” it takes you to the same link as above. Weird.

      travelmaps.state (dot) gov/TSGMap/

    2. Whelp, there it is. Presumably everyone has their deep pantry filled up. What you ought to be hoarding now, is every piece of power tool, chore equipment and electronic devices you think might be needed in the next year or so. Depot, Lowes, Menards et al. are going to get hit hard. Same goes for all of the so-called small town mom-n-pop hardware places too. They ALL order from one of a handful of inventory management companies, who aggregate China orders in bulk.

      If this goes on longer than a month, I don’t see how a greater depression is avoidable.

  12. We now have 6 confirmed cases (along with how many more that are not being talked about). The sixth case is the first person to person transfer in the US and is the husband of a lady who traveled to China.

  13. So the SHTF, what is the long term results? Yup the truckers stay home and gas and food stores go empty. The poor get hit the hardest, so less people to pick any crops in the fields now, so even less food. No gas, no fuel to run farm equipment, no crops planted this coming Spring. The electric grid workers, Cops, Nurses/Doctors and Firemen stay home, or die off. Looting in the Cities? Banks/Stores/Schools/Churches/ Hospitals close? Maybe China, with It’s huge population invades a weakened Taiwan, Japan, South Korea, Vietnam,even Australia?

    Stay tuned Boys n Girls! Is this the “End Times” and is Jesus returning soon?

    1. Say that you live in an infected country or state, what do you do? Either move to where there is “good” medical care or catch the Wu Flu and die? Look for a major increase of Illegal’s from S-hole countries coming here as well.

      1. Seminole Wind.. ideal.. if possible go to a bug out location pre selected and ready, take as many needs as possible with you..including seed, work tools,groceries. second alternate would include ( ….Not all are able and ready to do this. and many will wait to late to leave..)..
        … to have antivirals on hand and use at least 2 of them DAILY as a preventative
        …minimize physical contacts as much as possible.
        …. use antiviral spray in work area.( office? or )use diffuser with essential oils in work area. just some things one can do where you are for some work settings…

    2. Baltic Dry index tanked so i would assume that some shortages of overseas junk will be afoot.
      Maybe on some tools and such, but honestly, i still dont see a downside to that.
      Whoda thunk a good plague would take care of those trade wars

      1. Had a notice the other day that a container ship from China and bound for the Suez had feverish crew on board. I doubt they will be able to unload or disembark.

    3. SW: I sure hope so! And it’s looking more like that every day. Each morning before my feet touch the ground I ask myself if today’s going to be the day that God looks at Jesus and says, “Son…go get my children!” What I do know is that none of this surprises Him and that despite everything swirling around us right now, He is good.

      God bless!

  14. This weekend some 70-80000 people from all over the country and the world for that matter, will converge in one stadium for the Super Bowl! After this weekend they spread out to return home! What could go wrong with this ?

    1. Thinkin, yup and a bunch of them will be from the “infected” city of San Fran, where I understand people poop in the streets. Let us not forget all of the “Stupid Bowl” parties, drugs/booze consumed, and Hookers who flock to these events.

    2. Thinkin –

      Lessee..70,000+ people, who in the middle of a pandemic, elected to spend thousands of dollars to confine themselves, in a bowl-shaped stadium, with like-minded primitives, to worship out-sized men in tights, fighting over a pigskin pouch…. these guys might return home and obliterate their genetic down line? This is the concern? I’m actually kind of OK with this.

  15. Guess the best answer is wherever people congregate, including church. Restaurants, movies, concerts. Gun, garden, car, and home shows. I like that google feature that tells when a store is busiest. Any sort of public transportation, esp daily commuter trains and school buses.

    I go to town a few times a week for green grocer scraps for the pigs. They leave boxes out and I pick them up and go.

  16. all the more reason to be smart about this and WASH YOUR HANDS A LOT stay of public as much as possible use lysol on EVERYTHING wear masks if you can and most of ALL USE COMMON SENSE

    1. Read this tidbit in a WSJ article yesterday:
      In the city of Chongqing (30 million) pharmacies are now required to report the names of everyone buying OTC mess for symptoms like coughs and fevers, part of the effort to track down potentially ill people. This was reported by state broadcaster China Central TV yesterday.

      I guess the moral of the story is to have remedies on hand ahead of time, or risk a knock at the door insisting the ibuprofen you bought must be because you have virus symptoms, and not just arthritis or a headache.

  17. ZeroHedge is reporting that they are burning bodies in Wuhan. NOT GOOD

    To quote a famous poet from the Hawaiian Islands, ” Stay away from crowds!”

  18. Mixing up my PGA and some water. I have purchased from Amazon and another auction place. One is due in today and it is from Wash State.

  19. The Lancet ( lancet dot com )has just completed analytic forecasting on nCoV. Article dated 1/31/2020 entitled “Nowcasting and forecasting the potential domestic and international spread of the 2019-nCoV outbreak originating in Wuhan, China: a modelling study”

    Important finding: “This new modelling study estimates 75,800 individuals in the Chinese city of Wuhan may have been infected with 2019 novel coronavirus (2019-nCoV) as of January 25, 2020 – but authors caution that the true size of the epidemic remains unclear.”

    Introductory portion of article:

    Findings
    In our baseline scenario, we estimated that the basic reproductive number for 2019-nCoV was 2·68 (95% CrI 2·47–2·86) and that 75 815 individuals (95% CrI 37 304–130 330) have been infected in Wuhan as of Jan 25, 2020. The epidemic doubling time was 6·4 days (95% CrI 5·8–7·1). We estimated that in the baseline scenario, Chongqing, Beijing, Shanghai, Guangzhou, and Shenzhen had imported 461 (95% CrI 227–805), 113 (57–193), 98 (49–168), 111 (56–191), and 80 (40–139) infections from Wuhan, respectively. If the transmissibility of 2019-nCoV were similar everywhere domestically and over time, we inferred that epidemics are already growing exponentially in multiple major cities of China with a lag time behind the Wuhan outbreak of about 1–2 weeks.

    Interpretation
    Given that 2019-nCoV is no longer contained within Wuhan, other major Chinese cities are probably sustaining localised outbreaks. Large cities overseas with close transport links to China could also become outbreak epicentres, unless substantial public health interventions at both the population and personal levels are implemented immediately. Independent self-sustaining outbreaks in major cities globally could become inevitable because of substantial exportation of presymptomatic cases and in the absence of large-scale public health interventions. Preparedness plans and mitigation interventions should be readied for quick deployment globally.

    (full article on website)

  20. Some could say don’t panic and don’t spread the numbers. I say being a bit hyper is one way to NOT spread the virus. You can be one of the Lemmings that didn’t jump.

        1. Mrs U , and others… I understood you. I just stated same idea… a different way…
          When this first came out there was limited information,( and it is still limited.) I was a bit perturbed. I began to search… as much info as i could dig… Knowing Elderberry, oregano, and silver take care of this POTENTIALLY..gave me peace. that is only 3 of the naturals in my toolbox.. do not forget the nasty tasting lomatium. It works when other things may not work as well. very strong antiviral.
          True numbers must be waaayyyy under reported, for them to be building 3 -1000 bed hospitals. Their building site is right beside the main water supply for many cities and people.. NOW What COULD go wrong there?.

  21. Thought someone on this site might know what happened to Natural news website. Run by Mike Adams.

    1. It’s there along with his other sites. if you can’t get to it try again and ctrl+f5 to reload the entire page, if your using winblows.

    2. Concerned.Goober search engine blocks natural news. and sometimes i have difficulty going from startpage…. so you are not alone in having his site easily accessible.

    3. They said that there were secret courts that were convening in order to get secret warrants, to shut down websites that were putting out ANY anti-vaxxing info, or any TRUTH about vaccines. Which gives this whole thing an even more ominous appearance. And the fact that they just had that big drill, 3 months ago….. about this EXACT scenario…. Im beginning to believe that the virus is just a red herring, and the VACCINE that follows (possibly FORCED), is the TRUE KILLER!!

      1. “THEY” being Mike Adams & company. they are one of the sites that got shut down that way, and their lawyers found out that it was through a secret court proceeding, HIGHLY ILLEGAL.

      2. I read that also and I think that basically it just means that G has gotten even more control. They make a FISA court look legit.

  22. So. How are the Chinese getting food into their epidemic cities are surrounding villages?

    1. Ision,
      Not there to verify. I’ve read that there are volunteer drivers which are helping to meet critical needs.

  23. Just a thought…

    In a Chinese city overwhelmed with the sick, is it necessary to test every single person showing symptoms? Since there is no treatment, there is no need to test for coronavirus, when the only treatment available is not dependent upon the presence of the this virus…and is given to all patients suffering from such symptoms..regardless. Since the Chinese are not isolating the coronavirus patients in dedicated facilities, there is no need to test. Since they are low on testing supplies, why no just test those patients who are critical/chronic only?

    Confirmed cases, means only those cases actually tested and confirmed. If one does not test thousands of symptomatic patients, or patients who are only slightly affected..and my only have the sniffles…then they cannot be confirmed…and will not be counted…even though they are carriers.

    The confirmed DEAD are in the same situation. If a person, who has NOT been tested, dies of organ failure, or respiratory failure, there is no need to count their death as a confirmed coronavirus casualty.

    Basically, there is NO WAY for anyone outside the hot zone, and who is not being provided with the actual data by the Communist Chinese, to know what is really happening…THUS, all of our experts rely on their own experience and medical models…ALL of which inform this is an extremely dangerous pathogen and pandemic.

    The bias of this virus to attack men over women, is probably simply a matter of this disease behaving without an actual bias…but killing equally in a population where MEN outnumber women..and MEN are involved in activities of greater risk to exposure.

    Just some thoughts..

    1. Ision;
      Add this to your thought process.
      70 million quarantined, no cure, no separating out those in the area.
      Has China written off those in Quarantined?
      Just my 2¢.

    2. No one in, no one out, fertile medium, known pathogen. It is what we called a petri dish. Add a cadre of scientists, it sounds like a controlled experiment……..communist style. Not saying our government is not capable of the same thing.

    1. Gold was down and now is heading towards 1600, closed at 1588. Silver also is slowly coming back up.

      7th confirmed case south of San Francisco.

  24. Received my snow spike things for my boots from china through twain
    according to the shipping info.
    I licked the package, love from china..
    People are freaking out over very little.
    It affects Chinese far more than any other ethnicity, to what I have
    seen like 98%

    I suppose, this could be the cleansing this nation really needs
    but highly unlikely.
    Time will tell.

  25. Something nobody is taking about,.. Imports from China and the Kung Flu. If the virus can live on a surface for up to 28 days and you just bought a new TV or whatever and brought it in your house are you now infected?

    Scary thought but true.

    Wow, if other people think about this China’s economy is toast.

    Shipping containers………

    Also hear the R0 is up to 4.08 from a PHD expert.

    Also first case in NY….this really scares me as little China is in NY. The potential for disaster just increased exponentially.

    1. Thor:

      Our guys unloaded two containers today and I pulled a random sample for QA inspection. It was pretty toasty here today and everything inside those cans was heat-soaked to around 110F. Going by what Just Sayin’ mentioned; that should just about kill anything in the suspect pathogen group. Pretty sure all west coast containers are the same during this warm spell.

      1. When someone said 75°, I believe they meant 75°c. Which is about 167°f. That kinda makes sense since they recommend chicken and pork to be cooked to an internal temperature of 165°f. However, it’s still too new and even the researchers don’t know very much about this virus yet. All they can do is best guess at this point.

        I normally only go out a couple times a month anyway so I’m just going to self isolate.

        1. Speaking of 167°f, instead of putting mail in the microwave, how about putting it in the oven at about 200°f, cooking times may vary depending on your oven.

          P.S. Paper burns at 451°f so try to keep a low temp.

        2. I saw that mistake at once, days ago. If the virus dies at 75 degrees F, the human body could not host the virus. The oven idea will work to decon anything which can handle the heat.

      2. Don’t kiss your girlfriend or wife or even stay at the same place just out of precaution for 2 weeks….you could spread it……..

      3. tmc, would be taking antivirals Right now…I suspect the 75 degree temp is Celcius, not F, when i posted did not consider the source… i do not know, who posted that temp and i saw info.. hot oven cook time of meats 167-170 degrees F , to kill pathogens. We do know it can linger on surface and from Germany numbers released begin passing the virus before symptoms by at least 2 days.( case number zero lady from China, no major symptoms, just felt bad..on way home….after exposure of case number 1 and even the other cases.tracked). and continues for a time after symptoms are past…time unknown. deep south Bama w/ Mr Tom goes over this. you tube.

    2. I know squat about the shape China’s economy is/was in, BUT I’ve been listening to folks that should know, that it has been tanking for quite some time. Our media has been avoiding telling us because of their hate for Trump, and their attempts to denigrate everything he’s doing concerning trade deals.

      My first thoughts when this coronavirus story first started was that it might be orchestrated by the chi-com leadership to divert attention from their economic woes, the Hong Kong rebellion, and bad press dealing with ethnic minority relocations and re-education. Heck of a way re-exert totalitarian control over a population, but wouldn’t be the first time human lives have been sacrificed by governments such as this. The delay in telling the world about the outbreak, so travelers could spread it worldwide, would direct attention away from their original intent

      Blaming catastrophe on a bad batch of bat soup is a whole lot easier to explain than a failing ideology. Famine, death, and socialism always seem to be companions.

      1. Blaming anything is better than telling the world your local bio warfare lab had an accident handling all the stolen pathogens…or that this pandemic is a deliberate release for population control.

        I think we shall never know the truth, as it is often classified….or simply too fantastic to be believed.

  26. Tmcgyver/Thor1
    I, we unload cans mostly from Japan, Philippines. Five to six a week.
    For now, once a month a China can.
    Every three months, one from France.
    It always freaked us out with the weird smells and mold….mostly Philippines….reminds one of cat piss. Sometimes so bad my eyes would burn.
    Makes one wonder what has been enclosed in those cans.
    A four to six week trip port to port. Air shipments maybe of a different concern.

    Has anybody read of the 5g startup in Wuhan, China, in correlation with this virus?
    Flu like symptoms caused by 5g.

    Too much $hit to read, but where lies the truth?

  27. The comment about China’s economy being toast (sorry, I can’t recall from whom), is leading me to grow more concerned about the ripple effect to our (USA) economy, specifically large companies/corporations dependent on Asia based manufacturing of goods and parts. Depending on how rapid this virus spreads, the financial impact may eventually hit the workforce in America via work slowing down/layoffs. I suppose personal virus protection includes double-checking if a person is financially set as best as can be for potential economic impact. Just a thought or “voicing” a growing worry. FWIW. More Spam and stuff to barter I guess.

  28. Does anyone know if the handheld UVA lights that are supposed to sterilize medical equipment could be used on things like incoming mail and packages (as opposed to the microwave and oven ideas)?

    1. Anything used to sterilize medical equipment should be effective. The issue is whether the light will penetrate into the mail effectively. If you only wish to treat the outside of the mail, fine. I wonder about mail from an infected person..instead of an infected mail handler.

  29. I just had a feeling something wasn’t right about this 2019- nCoV virus.

    I know a little about viruses. I had a feeling that this virus had some traits, that are not only not normal in nature, they are non-existence. Influenza virus usually are contagious in the 2nd or 3rd day. This new virus, could infect and be contagious, not sickening the host, for up to 14 days. Influenza Viruses don’t survive like that. They have to reproduce, in their host or they die.

    Now, a respected epidemiologist who recently caught flack for claiming in a twitter threat that the virus appeared to be much more contagious than initially believed is pointing out irregularities in the virus’s genome that suggests it might have been genetically engineered for the purposes of a weapon, and not just any weapon but the deadliest one of all.

    In “Uncanny similarity of unique inserts in the 2019-nCoV spike protein to HIV-1 gp120 and Gag”, Indian researchers are baffled by segments of the virus’s RNA that have no relation to other corona viruses like SARS, and instead appear to be closer to HIV. The virus even responds to treatment by HIV medications.

    But the ‘smoking gun’ in this case are pieces of the virus’s genetic code that Indian researchers, led by Prashant Pradhan at the Indian Institute of Technology, found may have been ’embedded’ from HIV, which belongs to an entirely different family of viruses. Notably there were 4 gene insertions. Indian scientists have just found HIV (AIDS) virus-like insertions in the 2019-nCov virus that are not found in any other coronavirus.
    Zero Hedge

    MSB Patriots, this is a genetically modified organism. MAN MADE.

    1. Frightening using it.

      This means that the virus as it stands if the report is correct is a diplomatic time bomb.
      I have Chinese friends who attest that this virus is US made and has been planted deliberately in China. (Chinese whispers by extreme nationalists).
      Then there’s the story of alleged Chinese scientists stealing the base virus from Canadian labs.

      This Indian report needs to be verified.

    2. I have suspected this nCoV was a bioengineered virus from the beginning. There are a number of suspicious “coincidentals” that occurred just before the outbreak was announced, too.

      HIV genes found inserted in the coronavirus, at four different locations on the genome, did not occur spontaneously in such a short time. This strain of nCoV is man-made. Given it’s unique signature, it will be traceable, but we will never know where it came from or whether it was released intentionally or by accident.

      Another important point that these Indian researchers said was this: “this structural change might have also increased the range of host cells that 2019-nCoV can infect”

      The paper from Lanset showed that the transmission rate outside China has greatly surpassed the rate inside China.

      Dr. Eric Feigl-Ding (@EricDing on Twitter) has an interesting thread on the most recent nCoV writings. Should be accessible to those who are not on Twitter by going to Twitter dot com, then searching his ID).

      1. I encourage you to also look into the “ACE2 virus receptor” attached to this new virus and how it relates to Asian males vs. white males/females. It’s almost as though it was engineered to reduce their own population or at the very least do a test run for the purposes of vaccine development.

    3. It was weaponized. It would appear they took the run-of-the-mill coronavirus (common cold) or the SARS-type coronavirus and crossed it with an animal virus (commonly found in bats) and then inserted glycoprotein/components of HIV (in order to actually penetrate the human cell because, remember, it’s now a virus found in bats). That would also explain why China is rumored to be using anti-virals specifically for the treatment of HIV to treat this beast.

      Also, another interesting development at the official DOJ website…there is now an unsealed indictment just posted RE: the Chair of Harvard University’s Chemistry and Chemical Biology Department — Dr. Charles M. Lieber — and two Chinese nationals (one from Boston University’s Department of Physics, Chemistry and Biomedical Engineering and the other a researcher at Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center in Boston). It involves a hefty payout, 21 vials of pathogens and the Wuhan University of Technology. I don’t believe in coincidences.

      Here’s a snapshot of the tale:

      https://www.boston25news.com/news/fbi-harvard-professor-2-chinese-nationals-arrested-separate-china-related-cases/4UWHV4V2YBCTTAJ2N5W7Q6FLK4/

  30. Is it true that USA closed borders for foreign tourists who were in China and ordered quarantine for USA citizens who were in China?
    It’s first time in 50 years USA did that! It was on TV in my country.
    Can somebody verify this information!

    1. Veteran,
      Yesterday, Jan 31, 2020, President Donald Trump signed a proclamation suspending the entry of foreign nationals who have traveled in China in the last two weeks and could pose a risk of spreading the virus.

      News states that “Foreign Nationals who are the immediate family of US citizens or permanent residents are exempt. US citizens returning to the United States who have been in China’s Hubei province in the two weeks before their return will be subject to up to 14 days of mandatory quarantine.”

      1. Wow!
        This is worse and worse! Concerning death rate I think soon we will know that!
        It looks like we are screwed!
        Probably they will quit internet in some moment. If that happens I will know that world as we know it is past!
        God bless you all my friend!

        1. You will not know the actual death rate, until the event is over…. But, all one needs to know about is how high are the bodies being stacked in the pits….

          If the rate is 1%, or 20%, your course of action will be the same..and have the same effect. If you get sick and die from the nCov, it will not matter if you were part of the 1%, who did….or the 50%.

          Right now…the death rate is a variable figure. One can only perform time specific studies of well documented cases..where all factors are known. We do not have this data.

        2. Veteran what is, is. We may never know the evil details but that’s not relevant.

          You and I can only do our part to protect our families.

          #1 is always Wash your hands before you touch your face and I would add anybody you care about. IF you have pets DON’T touch them before washing your hands. They might not get the Corona virus but maybe they can be contaminated with it?

          #2 Improve your immune system AKA your guts. Stay well hydrated, get plenty of rest, eat good foods like chicken soups. Fermented foods like sauerkraut and yogurt are good. Just Sayin’ has placed a lot of good information about herbal anti-viral’s. Personally I take hot kimchee soup daily lots of peppers, garlic and fermented foods, Elderberry + Zinc Gummies.

          #3 Social distancing, family isolation, having an OUTSIDE person do the work and shopping FOLLOWED by a strip, wash clothing and bathe BEFORE Tracking that NASTYNESS around the house. I have a place outside for a tarp to allow shopping to air out and sun cleanse a bit. Every bit helps. These are my personal plan as a Medical Worker who has to go into the nasty zone AKA Hospital.

          Worrying how and why this event occurs is a waste of time better spent preparing for things we CAN DO something about.

          If things get REALLY BAD Do you have SEEDS for 2 years ON Hand? Might not have seed catalogues and Amazon available to deliver. Best part is kept cool and dry AND Nothing Happens YOUR OUT Nothing as you just use them over the next two years. Bonus.

          1. me2
            I am ready much better than 90% of people in my country. But I am very concerned about this epidemy. I am not so stoked with medical supplies as like to be.
            In Monday I will go to pharmacy to buy some things. Budget is very tight and that makes me very nervous. I know what I want to do but I am limited with money. Anyway I will do best I can with resources I have.
            This situation is my worst nightmare!
            I am afraid for my children. It makes me feel sick.

          2. Veteran, Yes What me2 said. it is easier to build own immune system by using fermented food if you can eat them.
            .. peroxide is cheap everywhere.
            . . any natural antivirals stock as heavily as you can oil of oregano and
            ….. garlic…( process for allicin release and store in vinegar. can be used as expectorant and antiviral adult dose is 8-10 cc.. dose for small child 30-40 lb child would be 1/3 that amount….for 210 cc vinegar. i used 30 toes/about 3-4 whole big heirloom bulbs.. your number will vary with kind of garlic. peel cut off root end mash so membranes burst. let sit for 10 min.-15 min. then chop and put in vinegar.can be added to a little honey for taste.
            star anise can be used to make tamiflu but requires 3 weeks to make… to get best extraction, quickly cut in small slices /pieces.. use purest food grade alcohol available. adult dose is 10 cc. same as ours in double extraction.. our sweetgum tree is half strength and takes 6 weeks.and two batches of plant material ours is bitter. hope this helps.

          3. Veteran just in case you don’t make sauerkraut.

            A simple recipe. 450 grams of shredded root vegetables or cabbage mixing in 10 grams salt (non iodine preferred) mixed well layer in a container (I use a 5 gallon plastic bucket with a lid) keep doing until container is mostly full. Place a plate on top with a weight (I use a gallon plastic bottle full of water) to compress it. Soon the moisture from the vegetables will rise up over that plate. In about 14 days depending how warm it is you have sauerkraut. Kept cool good for a long time.

            Excellent fermented food add a excellent source of Vitamin C which is also important for a strong immune system.

            Not expensive, not that labor intensive. You could look up Kimchee recipes if you want to add even more anti-viral ingredients into your daily diet.

            Man kind has been surviving the FLU (and that is mostly what Corona Virus is) for hundreds of years. We are *Still* here so the Immune System GOD gave us seems robust enough.

        3. me2
          Sauerkraut is very common here! I have one barrel 100 l of fermented cabbage! We love it. Very good food.

    2. Veteran, when they were flown from the epicenter of disease outbreak makes perfect sense.
      Yes, they are in quarantine on a reserve airbase. near Riverside Calif. they had health checks on the ground in Alaska… they agreed when they GOT ON the plane. They put selves in hands of .gov. and the rules they set in place.
      Serving and flying a air barge filled full of “possibly hazardous/infected people” is hazard duty. Someone volunteered to go do this job. and the butt wipes do not appreciate that others risked Their lives to get them out of area.

      1. Veteran,
        Perhaps you can find some elderberry syrup. I believe you call it Borovica in Serb. Good antiviral for all viruses. I think you have this bush growing in your country. God be with you.

          1. Veteran,
            Elderberry is Borovnica. Sorry, spell check giving me fits today.

          1. Veteran,
            We are talking of a cooked juice of elderberry (borovnica ?) with sugar or honey. (Just to be sure, elderberry= sambucus nigra (Latin name))
            When sick, take 2-4 tablespoons (30-60 ml ) every 2-4 hours for adults. Think older kids could take the same. Would not give it to babies. Same amount can be taken each day to keep viruses from infecting. We like elderberry syrup on our pancakes here.(pfannekucken), amazing that something that tastes so good could be a strong antiviral too. Also, elderberry wine really good, and antiviral! Read through the comments here, many good recommendations for herbal remedies. Good luck, God be with you.

          2. Veteran it, elderberry syrup or tincture- if evaporated off of alcohol…can be given to children.(and cherished dogs). dose depends on weight. JUST do not include with honey to any child under 2 yo.
            General dosing instructions…for herbals that are considered safe for all ages. …came from a herbal web site… couple years ago.
            … child above 90-100lbs.. dosed as small adult.@ low end of an adult dose.
            ….40- 80 lb child half adult dose…
            … below 40- to 20 half of that… of 50 lb child… infant would be just a cc or so.cc+ one half…… safer than getting the flu as a daily dose or treatment.

          3. Just Sayin’,
            Thanks for this dosing information. Good to keep on hand.

  31. Picked up our last order of 3M N95 respirator/masks from Grainger yesterday, and when we got home, while double-checking to make sure they were indeed NOT made in China, we noticed that each of the boxes of (10) had a sticker on the bottom with a “best if used by” date. Unfortunately for us, each box had a date of either 3/18, 4/18 or 5/18 — as in 2018! Can anyone shed some light on this? Are they unsafe/useless? We hadn’t realized (and nothing was indicated on the ordering info) the masks would have an expiration date! They DO have the cool valve on the front, so maybe it has to do with the filter?

    Thanks for any help you can offer!

    1. It involves the filter element treatment by a chemical coating, which enhances the filtration fibers ability to attract and capture particles..and stick to them. This way air can more easily pass thru, letting one breathe better, while providing a higher filtration level. These masks are not bio warfare, but industrial dust filters..and vapor filters, and are basically one-use disposables. Dry dust particles, lead particles, and lacquer..paint..coatings…vapors, are what they are designed to inhibit. However, droplets of moist expectoration from the infected are larger than a single virus, and should be captured by an expired N95. In any case, better than a wet t-shirt.

      If this virus was engineered with HIV segments, there is a good chance this virus will have a built in ability to mutate its genetic signature, on a timed basis, just enough to cause it to be very hard for anyone to develop a vaccine for it. If it has a phase shifting, randomly scrambling, genetic signature…a vaccine will not be possible to develop for it. Instead, a nucleotide serum…comprised of a specific genetic sequence…must be produced, which attaches to the virus…and prevents the virus from constantly changing is signature. But, this is not easy and may not be possible.

      I am familiar with phase shifting bio weapons, which were deliberately designed to be impossible to be defeated by vaccines. If this nCov has this ability..it is definitely a man-made weapon. Furthermore, such weapons all have fully developed genetic serums for them. The danger lies in natural mutations within a released virus causing the receptor for the serum to “go away.” Such a field mutation would cause the virus to be uncontrollable by the serum.

      When I was educated about these weapons, we thought such a phase-shifting virus, was good…as the enemy could not hope to defend against it. We would even provide the enemy target with “aid” to allow them to develop vaccines…which we KNEW..would all be in vain. Thus, cover our deliberate release of the weapon by our false attempt to be of help to our target.

      It would be madness to have provided the nCov with this phase-shifting ability for world release. And, if people are actually getting better, after infection…the nCov must not have shifting ability…else, the cured are those given the engineered serum…as a cover.

      The truth is usually classified information. Even within the Community, not everyone is allowed to know the truth..and there are levels of “truth.”

      We can only do the best we are allowed to do….

      1. ISION: Thank you for that very detailed and well thought out response to my concerns. Expired masks it is!

  32. It’s been mentioned in the news that we are more at risk for the flu than the this new virus. Looking at the commonly available statistics it looks like for the flu ,1 death for every 1800 infections. For the new virus, 1 death for every 245 infections.

    1. These idiot news sites claiming the 2019-nCov is LESS dangerous than the common Flu are criminally ignorant!

      ALL of the data we have indicates EXACTLY the opposite.

      For example: The R-O factor for the Flu is 1, or very close to it. The R-O for nCov is between 2.5 and 3.8. This means nCov will not only infect more people in a shorter time..it will infect more people in total. If you attribute the fatality rate of the Common FLU to nCov…it would mean millions of more deaths attributed to nCov, than the Flu. However, if the fatality rate of nCov is even slightly higher than the common flu…and it IS…then the danger of the nCov is vastly greater.

      Couple this with the fact the nCov is entering a completely unprotected population and faces NO NATURAL counter to it, whereas…the common flu faces immunity already present in the population, plus vaccines targeted against it. NO COMPARISON!!

      Ad to this the nCov may take over cells in our respiratory system..AND..our intestinal system, just like SARS. People presenting with intestinal issues…may not be recognized as nCov infected..or tested for such.

      This pandemic is VERY YOUNG…yet, idiots are attempting to compare other pathogens, which have been at play for YEARS…making NO effort to show these other pathogens as they were for the SAME TIME PERIOD…as nCov. Doing this shows nCov to be much worse than SARS…and the Flu…COMBINED!!

      This is idiocy or disinformation. But, I bet is the result of just really stupid people, who cannot understand the science…or read a chart.

      1. I concur but lean towards deliberate disinformation. Nothing in the news about the suspected cases being cleared. How long has it been since that was announced? How long does it take to run a test to determine if an individual is infected? I doubt that we are being told what is really happening.

        DW has a chronic cough and is wondering how long before folks start questioning her about it.

        She is getting ready to do another run to Maomart aka Wallyworld. I wonder when we will start seeing disruptions in supply. She will be wearing a mask. As an aside she will picking up razors and shaving cream as it is time for my beard to go away. YOU CAN NOT GET A GOOD FIT FOR ANY MASK IF YOU HAVE A BEARD. I kind of think that most of the guys on this site are bearded although I could be wrong. I’ll be asking her to pick up some chlorox wipes for disinfection commonly touched objects around the house.

        1. I shaved two days ago. This is the first time I am clean shaven in the last 30 years. My wife thinks he husband was taken by the aliens..and replaced with an almost perfect replica.

          1. Ision, I’ve been with a beard since I threw my razor away after 10 years in the Army. I cut it off in the early 80s and immediately started growing it back. Again in mid 90s and again immediately grew it back. I think it will stay off for a while this time.

            First time I grew it make myself look more mature. In the 90s I grew it back to hide my jowls!

          2. ISION: Your comment really made me laugh. Here’s why: when my husband left for Iraq in ’03 he had a full head of hair (receding, mind you, but full head nonetheless). When he returned many months later and walked in off the plane (surrounded by a sea of others in the same gear) I looked and looked but just could not find him in the crowd. Little did I know he was standing darn near right in front of me BUT WITH A BALD HEAD! What a sight that was. He said to me, “I told you we shaved our melons! It got a little warm over there!” He never did grow it back. Shaves it smooth to this day and I wouldn’t have it any other way. [But it did take some getting used to]

          3. Ision,

            I sense from your comments that you know “that of which you speak” about this coronavirus.

            Lest anyone doubt your convictions here, the fact that you shaved for the first time in 30 years tells me quite a bit.

            Your wife may think that you were taken by aliens, but I suspect that she also thinks that you look ten years younger, too!

        2. me
          Have ‘Mrs. me’ wear gloves for touching products, she should also have wipes to clean the basket–jic. She has been through a LOT, and we do not need her to contract anything from that vermin deposit of germs.
          After exiting the building clean those gloves, toss them along with the wipe & put new gloves.

          Do not take your bags into the store, ask for new bags. When she gets home new gloves(toss the 2nd pair-hazmat material). Clean all products outside, place on clean material. Have her change clothes in a containment area, before you bring those food items.

          If they still have paper even better, but doubt that they do. Those bags plastic or paper go into the ”trash” not the recycle, hazmat material.

          Better to error on the side of caution rather then drag in a virus or any kind into your home during this unknown period of time. mho

  33. Veteran
    You do the best you can for your family. Key word is to pace yourself for the supplies that you will require for your family.

    What about the other adult members in your extended family? Can they add to what you think you/they would need? We have a tendency to buy for those who never think they might need a box of band aids or cough syrup.

    Does not hurt to ask them, all they do is tell you no.

    1. Antique Collector
      Unfortunately others are not convinced this situation is serious. Maybe they are right, maybe not! We will see. I will do what I can to secure my children as much is possible!

  34. I guess our custom of shaking hands will now be replaced with bowing, like the Japanese.

  35. Maybe a drop of reason. There are less than 10 people out of 320 million in the USA that we know are infected and people are talking about locking themselves away cooking their mail and not touching their kids and animals? Does anyone but me think we just may be going a little overboard with this?

    1. Only those not fully informed think this way. Many on this board, like me, have been members of military decontamination teams with very high security clearances, who understand the nature of the threat. Remember, the admitted and tested number of the infected was ZERO in November. Now, it is in the tens of thousands… This disease is advancing with a perfect curve for exponential increase. The number of the infected…known or NOT…will double about every 6.8 days.

      The first case was reported Dec 1, notice anything about how fast it is spreading? Huh?

      The KNOWN cases are NOT the actual number of people who are infected….that number is unknown..and will continue to be unknown.

      Just simply witness the actions being taken by various governments…who all stand to loose all sorts of very important things by taking them. Then, witness how these actions have always been out of proportion to what YOU have been allowed to know. Then, take this seriously.

      1. Ision

        Based on your experience and this is an engineered bio weapon what would be the expected “burn out” time for such a thing? Outside of a bio warfare lab are there any markers that would be apparent for the non medical personnel among us?

        It would seem to be counter productive to have such a weapon but not be able to protect yourself (your country) against it with a vaccine but there are certainly enough crazy people out there to release it. Caliphate perhaps?

        In regard to 60% alcohol I remember reading that it wasn’t even recommended for season flu anymore due to the virus being encased in mucus droplets that alcohol wouldn’t penetrate before evaporating. Anything better if no soap and water available?

        1. Ision

          What you said needs to be shouted from the rooftops.

          Look at what governments are doing and plan accordingly. We’re now turning away most folks who’ve been in China in the past couple weeks.

          This speaks volumes about the severity of the disease, untrustworthiness of information coming out of China, porosity of international borders, and experts’ beliefs regarding transmissibility.

          Someone asked about Africa a few days ago. People in many African and SW Asian countries have cultural practices and religious beliefs that do not include seeking out “western” medical intervention, epidemiological surveillance is spotty, and healthcare resources are extremely limited, especially in areas where medical practitioners were decimated by Ebola. Guaranteed numbers there will rise.

          Our southern border has been a path for illegal Chinese smuggling for a long time. Hope Mexico’s government is stopping and sending back every illegal Chinese they intercept, as well as South and Central American gateway countries.

        2. 91% applied liberally. Does a pretty good job. I use Lysol wipes. Does best job possible. I carry my own cylinder of them in my bag. I don’t bother with the ones at the supermarket doors because I have no idea of what the ingredients are and how strong they are. I’ve been doing this forever, so no new protocols in that regard. I also spray doorknobs, light switches, stair rails, etc. with Lysol several times a day and every time I come back from being out. As well, I wipe down steering wheel, gear shift. ignition button, main console, etc. with Lysol wipes each time I exit the car. And I wear gloves. No pumping gas, punching key pads, etc. without them. Do I live in the equivalent of an OR? Nope. Do I make a substantial dent in personal germ warfare… hope so! Also – I never, ever ever touch my face between soap and hot water washes and I sing ABC’s to myself while I am washing to ensure it is long enough to actually kill. Hope that helps!

        3. I have addressed these questions in other postings here.

          But, an engineered bio weapon need not ever “burn out,” as this requires a successful ability to control the pathogen, by limiting its ability to spread. So, one develops characteristics in the viral weapon, which prevents it from being easily controlled…or from EVER being controlled by the target.

          You see, an engineered weaponized virus can be deliberately created, so as to make it virtually impossible to develop an effective vaccine against it. This same technique also makes the human immune system unable to target the virus effectively, or to ever develop and immunity for it. Such a bio weapon is controlled by a completely different method, which most of the world cannot hope to discover or create…as they do not have the proper equipment, or knowledge.

          If this is a weaponized virus, it is most likely a Frankenstein conglomeration of various attributes take from existing pathogens, such as SARS and HIV. The origins of which could be any of the bio labs on Earth..but most likely the Canadian and Chinese labs..the Chinese lab being in Wuhan.

          If this was a deliberate release of an engineered virus, the controlling vaccines and, or, serums, have already been developed and were in place before the release.

          Forget about alcohol and just use the chemical we have always used for decontamination efforts… BLEACH. 1/4 cup in One Gallon of Water, plus the use of soap and water, as everyone suggests. You can put the bleached water in spray bottles and use rags dipped in it..to decon your body…and things..and areas. Mix in a little dish soap to make the bleach water cling to applied objects better..it will provide and extra killing ability, too.

          Maybe only 6% to 7% of the infected will die from this virus, if it cannot be broken soon…as with an estimated R-O factor of 4.08…there is not much time. This is why the Chinese shut everything down…it is the ONLY way to slow the virus DOWN. Slow down…not STOP IT. But, we need all the time we can get…and slow is better than NOT slow.

          With an R-O of 4.08, the entire planet’s population can be infected in a very short time.

          This is a VERY complex issue… But! You do not need to be an expert..all you need to do is try to keep from being exposed to the virus as best you may…get ALL the drugs you would need to self treat for a bad flu with respiratory and intestinal symptoms…just over the counter stuff…and make sure you have enough FOOD for at least 3 months..and STAY HOME.

      2. Well I’m not telling anyone how or when to prepare or when to panic I am just saying that maybe people are being a little premature. Let’s just hope I’m right

        1. Poorman, WE ALL pray you are correct. I am not panic’d. I can do some, and have basic supplies inn a rural area.. The regular flu by passes us because we largely self isolate normally.. The only thing we do on routine is worship. IF we are sick we stay home. That is why this is so concerning it is communicable before the one doing the sharing is aware of their illness.

        2. In the 1980s at the height of the Cold War when we in the military were planning to stop a Soviet attack through the Fulda Gap, we were told to expect to fight that war with what we had. The outcome would likely be decided before any major reinforcement or re-supply took place. The matter was referred to as a “come-as-you-are-war.”

          So it is here with individual efforts with regard to the coronavirus for most of the population. Yet, those reading this blog are those who are, more than likely, to have already taken steps toward preparedness in the past. While those in the general population will be scrambling once they figure out just how bad this coronavirus can get, most of us reading this blog are relatively prepared to do quite well.

          Even for the prepared, unlike with an earthquake that gives no warning, I expect that we can take a few additional steps that will serve us well. That should be the takeaway here. Those additional steps will also serve us well in dealing with other disasters, too, so it is not as if the effort is wasted if the coronavirus threat is nipped in the bud before it strikes the US in a serious way.

    2. Poorman. for me i am doing what i can to prepare and that includes gathering information.B y the time this virus is stopped, may it not be any further than it is now… with the viral loads and shedding before symptoms appear in the sick- i do not expect this outcome….. whether it reaches my area only God knows. He expects me to use grey matter between my ears.. Remember the Spanish flu went on for 2 years. Preventing that length of time -given this virus can cause chronic disability of heart and lungs( COPD) in 12% of people… Think i had rather avoid..to avoid chronic illness is not Folly.
      Purpose involves… planning how i will PREVENT and treat any possible infection. Thankfully i have no small children.who go to a petri dish called public school. I did have that for a time and we were all sick on a routine basis.
      doing disinfection may seem extreme to those who do not face illness of some kind weekly. I am making plans to TREAT my animals when the virus gets in the area. will put oil of oregano- a dilute, between the toes and in the ears of dogs.

      1. Just Saying,
        Do you think one could give elderberry syrup to a dog or cat without any issues? Asking for a friend. (Jake the farm dog) 🐕

        1. I would call and ask your veterinarian. Some berries and fruits (along with foods like onions) are toxic to dogs, and/or can damage their red blood cells.

        2. Miner, you can give dogs, cats and birds DMG which can be purchased on Amazon. I have a cat with feline aids and I give it to him. He is about 8 years old now and shows no signs of the FIV at this time.

          1. Don’t allow your cat to be vaccinated at all. Can set off the FIV. Happened to me with my Rag Doll kitten. Heartbreaking, didn’t even know she was sick. Came that way from the breeder.

        3. Minerjim, i will check with VET and let you know. I think so.. but not sure.. is safe for all ages of humans. I have successfully used lomatium/oregano on rabbits and dogs..I don’t know if it is recommended but option was not survive-able. 5.5 week old rabbit no longer has sniffles, draining eyes or wheeze.

          1. @JS

            FWIW, I was looking up using oil of oregano for my cat with an apparently chronic sinus issue and found references to oregano being OK to use with dogs, but NOT with cats. Haven’t been able to get back to researching due to other priorities getting in the way, but it did stop me from putting some in their water. Agree that we need to make sure to check it out with multiple sources or a vet. I do know oregano (the herb) is apparently put in some formulations of chicken feed, so not sure about the species differences…..

        4. Minerjim, Finally , Lowell,.. and others.
          I just received answer from one some of us know as COUNTRY VET, she says elderberry preparations are safe for dogs, syrup.. specifically ..NEVER RAW. Tell you fiiend. “Jake the Farmdog” he can enjoy his elderrberry syrup on pancakes w/ eggs. Besides being tasty,It will give him an immune boost. as well.
          I did not ask about cats. Cats are sensitive to a lot of things dogs are not so it is my best guess… do not give to a cat you wish to keep.
          I do not have cats and will not be owned by another. I have a Jack Russell and that and the border collie/heeler mix is Plenty to be owned by..
          I use oil of oregano often in dogs ears. and have used between toes for an antiviral antibacterial boost. in dilute amounts… i use one tablespoon oilive oil and 8 drops( of 6% carvisol strength) it kills ear mites and helps wounds heal. Daughter put on surgical incision of her little girl pup. Dogs do not care for the smell but it does away with ear mites and is soothing to inflamed tissue.

          I have chickens and rabbits in addition to the two dogs.. This little rabbit was sick and our other option was to end his suffering. I used lomatium2 drops( with oregano on 15 mil of pellets , colloidal silver( 4 drops in water..he did not drink it all), oil of oregano 2 drops pellets 3 times thru the day about 4 hours apart.( for 2 days).. and colloidal silver( used alone one time. successfully.
          tomoro he will get lomatium( on his feed pellets) and colloidal silver in his water.only.If he develops a wheeze will drop peppermint on his pellets again by drops.one.
          oregano leaves and mint leaves are put into blends for goats and other animals as part of a de worming./ formula that includes several other things. mint and oregano are pretty widely used for farm animals..rabbis will munch on them given a choice..
          For chickens,I give ACV in water one tablespoon per gallon.usually 2x amonth.. I usually use diatomaceous earth for most de-worming needs. i mix in some cornbread with high calcium citrate, or extra milk and proteins… they eat every grain. eggs come out pretty… feathers look good. I also give them pine shavings year round to use for dust-bathing. can add DE to that as well. with a little sand.
          I know if i had a small child and needed to give either to them i would. and I would not be concerned about giving the chickens… ie either oregano as a herb, ( chop raw herb finely…or powder dry and add to their favorite food.) or oil of oregano in their water…or collodal silver( alone-never mixed with anything else. including chemical laden water.. in their water.if a virus is in our area i will be dosing them with all of the above. I give them home cooked gruel made with various things for this purpose to get supplements down them… and they prefer their home made feeds to commercial layer pellets.

          Lowell,. I hope this answers your questions… that is all i know about goat care… have seen others use , but i do not have any goats or other farm animals.
          Heard on a report today the Chinese are being told to get rid of all pets…within 5 days or the government will do it for them.

          1. JS
            Last night, FWTB had shared the same info of Chinese pets/livestock
            being culled.

            All this stinks to High Heaven.

            I cannot make heads or tails of this dilemma.

            Time for more music…..

            Maybe some Christian rock, this time…

      2. Can you elaborate on using oil of oregano for treatment of animals? Are you speaking of cats and dogs, or of farm animals?

    3. Poorman, going overboard is HOW not to have a Pandemic. In 1918-1919 what would have been the outcome during the Spanish Flu if communications were like today? Probably millions of less dead young adults and children.

    4. Poorman

      Fear is a very strong motivator, and an invisible killer virus that spreads very easily from person to person is going to cause a lot of people to really freak out.

    5. I’m sure that the majority of people think we’re going a little overboard with this. Normalcy bias is a bitch.

      1. Normalcy bias is absolutely what it is. My brother and his wife have this devil may care (the gov will take care of us) attitude that is so annoying. Also, I’m currently in Chicago and I’ve gone outside twice since this all started and people are just walking around like this is just another strain of the flu. No masks, no gloves, and I’m sure the same people that went to work and school sick before are still doing it. Half the population have no idea what’s going on and the other half thinks it has something to do with beer.

  36. Veteran, isopropyl with 60% should be affordable. Have a spray bottle? Our CDC says 60% will kill the virus. Perhaps vitamin C and Zinc if possible. Raw Garlic and onions are helpful. What grows wild in the winter where you live? Any medicinal plants? Myrrh, it is said burning in an incense burner will help purify the air. If it not available in your country give your address to Ken and I will mail you some.
    hug hug

  37. Well, I just returned from stimulating the economy, in addition to what was ordered online this morning. Now I have t go soak my credit card. It’s on fire.

  38. from Alerts USA:

    SMS Alert Text:
    DoD selects Ft Carson, CO, Travis AFB & Marine Air Stn Miramar, CA and Lackland AFB, TX as poss quarantine sites for 2019-nCoV overseas evacuees. Monitoring..

    Supplemental Info:
    The move comes at the request of Health and Human Services for assistance with housing support for those U.S. citizens returning from overseas.

  39. Minerjim
    Look into Carnivora the information is on line. I did my homework before using this product.

    1. Joe C.
      Have read that a couple of European countries discontinued 5G indefinitely because it failed to meet their specs. for public safety.

      1. But you can bet our dumbazz dollardriven gubermunt donkeys will push it right on top of us without regad for safety

  40. This just in regarding the Boston patient:

    The student is “doing quite well” and is quarantined at his home, which is not in a residence hall, Lo said. He is being monitored by public health nurses who call him regularly.

    “We won’t release him from isolation until we are satisfied it’s safe to do so,” said Dr. Larry Madoff, medical director of the Massachusetts Department of Public Health’s Bureau of Infectious Disease and Laboratory Sciences.

    How do they know if he’s staying isolated? Is he wearing an ankle monitor? Is a phone call enough to keep the public safe? Why isn’t he quarantined? How is he getting food? Is the pizza delivery driver or grub hub driver wearing full protective gear?

    I sympathize with this kids situation but it sounds like whoever is in charge is just rolling the dice with “our” lives.

    1. Yea,
      What a joke,
      Have you ever known a college student who sat still and did what they were told?
      Yea, me neither.
      And “they” are in contact with him over the phone…..
      Cant make this bogus bs up

  41. I haven’t herd about any deaths other than asian peoples.
    No white/black pink purple swirled.
    I said earlier it seems to effect chinese prominently. as far as death,
    as general sickness it hits everyone else as a flu like thing.

    But at this point I may be behind in the news.

    I would like to know about the first black or whitey death from this.

    1. Yes. There is absolutely no doubt.

      However, the lungs are an easier path…as the cells with the receptors for it are in the lungs and in the digestive tract. So, contamination via the eyes, or skin, are just a less efficient paths.

  42. Alert

    I was wrong, these bastards mixed bat corona virus with AIDS.. Bioweapon from hell. This now makes sense why they were trying to treat it with anti- aids meds…..

    Nurses & Drs in Pittsburgh Pa. Diagnosed a patient positive for corona virus. They were threatened by Feds of nondisclosure. The patient was a business man who was doing business there for 2 weeks.

    They haven’t declared the case in Pittsburgh yet for fear of panic. Everyone needs to know this weapon is basically airborne AIDS and also surface contact.

    This is a bioweapons that was made illegally per international law and the Chinese demand an apology.. WTF

  43. Just read a piece over on “American Thinker”. I know there is a lot of speculation on the origins of the new coronavirus. Do yourself a favor, read the article on that site titled “Wuhan Revisited”, written by a person who has spent a lot of time, actually living there. The old adage “out of filth comes pestilence” comes to mind. His story/description of daily life/living conditions is sobering to folks who may view China as a first world country.

    1. Hi Dennis,

      Likewise a stroll through Oakland, Seattle, Portland and DTLA is sobering to folks who may view America as a first world country… or a glass house. One can find ‘filth and pestilence’ in any country if one is motivated enough.

      1. tmcgyver,

        Totally agree. Those places in America you pointed out are festering caldrons already brewing up diseases we long thought eradicated.

        Difference I see is comparative ratios and opportunity to change one’s circumstance………..and only talking of folks not alcohol/chemical dependent (overwhelmingly the reason for abject poverty here in America)

  44. China now has new cases of avian flu. They had swine flu for pigs and of course the kung flu. Sounds like a complete containment breakdown at their bio-lab.

  45. A word on cash. I just pulled my daily limit at both banks laid it out on paper towels at home and hit it well with virus type Lysol. The cash was no worse for the experience, but Lysol does turn thermal receipts black and it may dissolve the mag-stripe on your ATM card. Took one for the team there. FYI, FWIW, YMMV, Etc.

    1. Mail and money should do fine in an oven at 200 degrees. I doubt that a virus could survive that amount of heat.

    2. Mail and money should do fine in an oven. Gives a whole new meaning to the hotmail thing. Fahrenheit 451 was the name of the book burning movie and 451 was the temperature that paper caught fire at.

  46. Does anyone know if infected people who’ve “recovered” can continue to carry and spread the corona virus to others while they themselves are now symptom-less?

    Are people who’ve recovered from the corona virus now immune to it, or can they get re-infected all over again from contact with infected individuals?

    1. I have a friend whose spouse operated last week on someone who supposedly had the coronavirus and is now completely recovered and living in the U.S. While doing the operation, this doctor chose to wear the full haz-mat suit (or whatever they call it), just in case. I figure the doctors don’t know for sure, either.

    2. SMG,
      I read that they can still be shedding virus after recovery. Didnt say for how long. Maybe they don’t know yet…

    3. SMG,
      I have read that “recovered” persons still shed the virus in their feces after they “recover”. For how long was not known.
      Also, Doctors in China were warning people of the possibility of ‘re-infection”. truth is, I do not think they know one way or another on that issue yet.
      that’s about all I have been able to glean from the news feeds.

    4. SMG,
      it is my understanding this thing is mutating. set up for that as bioweapon, for mass effectiveness. IF THAT is TRUE , guessing one would be able to receive an extra chance at illness.
      IF I UNderstand this process correctly…makes the lungs specifically vulnerable to secondary bacterial infections. We will need to prevent as much as possible and have natural antibiotic substances that are useful on wide range of resistant bacterial.We also NEED to know the most effective ways to use each substance and the closest we can dose with each..
      iF CRISIS, may need to alternate some things we would normally use on q 4 hours with an alternate on q 2 hr intervals.result would be two different naturals/alternatives on Q 4 hours… alternating.. Until an improvement is noted. and substantial… Remember topicals can be used w/ orals.. chest rubs and foot rubs.. Like most pharma.. on children use in fractions depending on age…. can make many essential oils dilute enough to be effective with foot rub and warm moist towels to feet…DO YOUR OWN research. If the option of NO breaths is close. one will use things previously un-tried..
      IF you have not viewed the updates by PEAK PROSPerity and MED-Cram . Make sure you see the one by the “expert on the Spanish flu.. on Peak prosperity.. listen to first 6 minutes…i am thinking this thing will have to be stopped by isolation… voluntary or involuntary , possibly extended…

  47. Most of the FD and DH bundled food kits are “out of stock” now. Check Auguson, Emergency Essentials — maybe they are govt suppliers? Supplies for individual products appear to be available there, as well as via Amazon.

    What does this mean?

    1. Modern Throwback,…try thru dave hodges promo company… food 4 patriots. they have stock and are shipping.. i have gotten their food and what i tasted , was good. I can’t eat it because of milk, and milk , cream products unless it is an emergency…. If you need any parts get them in as well.asap.
      another one is Legacy foods i would go thru Preppernurse1, has a sale on. to help people.

      1. Just Sayin’ Thanks for the info. I am not buying any additional FD/DH foods, but I wanted to see if others were stocking up. Either a govt is buying large bulk sizes or these places may simply have stopped bundling because it takes time to gather and bundle kits. It’s surely different than the norm….

  48. The Philippines, the first confirmed fatality outside China.
    The patient was a 44-year-old Chinese man from Wuhan
    foxbusiness.com/markets/coronavirus-global-infections
    Effects only kills asian’s so far, everything else is flu like.

    Still zero real issue here in the states.
    A few infection (flu like) and it goes away.

    Still fun to watch people freaking out.

      1. It doesn’t involve you either, nor the majority of the USA.
        CDC: 80,000 people died of flu last winter in U.S., highest death toll in 40 years
        This is nothing in comparison.

        1. Horse, you are either ignorant or you are limiting your information gathering. You aren’t going to convince anyone here who is following the better channels of information AND DATA CHARTS.

          Watch Dr. Chris Martenson’s YT video “Coronavirus Continues Spreading Fast — How Bad Will It Get?” and then get back with us.

          1. May be.
            I also remember the hysteria about y2k.
            Oh, the world was ending.
            Get your preps.
            hide somewhere
            Get your guns.
            Chaos extrema.

            I see it’s bad in asia,it’s still spreading, that’s
            where I see the majority of it will stay
            because I looked at the charts and articles.
            Affects mainly asians.
            Everyone else that gets sick gets over it.
            Eventually a few non asians will die, they will
            have other issues that complicated the situation.

            Oh, Were there not charts and graphs before y2k also ?

            Lastly, if it combines with something else then there
            could well be an serious problem here at home.

        2. Horse, THat IS the POINT! I do not intend it to concern ME. Part of the reason we prepare… for life’s emegencies. My preps have pulled me thru job loss and unexpected major event changes…several times. It IS our insurance. It is Nothing in comparison NOW. I was not on the y2k mess. I am seeing many things i buy routinely change prices and go up in price… My DH had the flu last year, He also treated it with natural products… and did NOT die. We self isolated for almost 8 weeks last year….with sinus infections, bronchitis and flu…we did not make a big deal out of it.. we stayed home except for paying our bills.
          With a virus that is infective several days before and after symptoms, the spread of it will be much greater… IF we do not/ have not prepared and must go out in general public,we could have exposure to various pathogens. We choose to limit that spread.

          Thankfully, we CAN make the choice,to prepare for life changing events… as can you..When events are upon us it is too late to do sufficient preps…..I will refrain from making light of those who do not prepare. I have some for us, but not enough to share.. so those who have not what they need, i will have no/little ability to help.
          People who are weaken’d in immunity and have health issues are taken with major events.. Those that already have health issues CAN survive by being proactive..Each of us makes those choices. I prefer being proactive, esp. with things that concern health issues. So far i am on the topside of the dirt.

  49. An article in the South China Morning Post today reports a 71 year old Chinese woman who tested positive for the virus, and was in the hospital, was treated successfully with a combination of flu and HIV drugs. In 12 hours she was able to sit up, and 48 hours after the drug cocktail was administered tested negative for the virus. The doctors combined the anti-flu drug oseltamivir with lopinavir and ritonavir, antivirals used to treat HIV.

    If further research proves it out, could be a breakthrough.
    Source: scmp (dot) com/news/asia/southeast-asia/article/3048629/coronavirus-thailand-has-apparent-treatment-success

    Reported number of cases and deaths continue to go up in China.

    1. All interested SEE VIDEO… evolutionary energy arts, ..2-2- 2020…. interview on situation in Taiwan… now. David D,of ADAPT 2030 @ minute 25-40… . he says we may have 3 weeks..food shelves are emptying.. restock in floor being emptied before to shelf…

    2. A doctor told me this very morning:
      “Surprisingly 90% of our patients get better despite what we do to them”

      The hiv treatment may be a happy coincidence, or it might actually work.
      In an article it reported the chinese were only using limited test kits on
      people they thought were going to get better anyway.
      psyops on the populous, Gov dis info to keep panic low.
      Mitigation.. whatever you want to call it.
      It might be the same with medication, lies to lessen panic
      or given to people they know were going to get better anyway.

      Unless you trust the world governments implicitly..
      I know you don’t.
      So why start now ?

      1. Horse,
        Always kind of bothered me that Doctors “practice medicine” rather than “actually doing medicine”. LOL.
        My question in the of the use of this HIV medicine in fighting this coronavirus is this: Is it effective on this Coronavirus specifically, or is this medicine “generally” effective against all coronaviruses and viruses ?

        1. Sadly everybody will have to wait until the aftermath settles and more
          details and facts come out, if the CPC allows relevant honest information sharing.
          They are throwing different idea’s at the virus and some do seem to work.
          Or they claim some are having positive effects.

          I would love to read the details, the story.

          I will hope the HIV treatments are the honest thing, that they are working.
          I have doubts.

          Our own Gov can and does hide needed relevant information from us, they
          always have so trusting information out of the CPC is problematic.

  50. The most recent videos coming out of China are alarming and disturbing.

    The Wuhan hospitals are full, and the walk in clinic parts of them are too. People are sitting in the waiting rooms, where each chair becomes a patients treatment place..their IVs on pole racks next to them. Dead patients are to be seen, lying on their backs uncovered on the floor. People being declared dead all around the clinic..continually. People screaming in anguish as they are told their father is dead, having lost the ability to breathe, and the grieving family members are also infected and having a hard time breathing themselves.

    Patients are seen lying on lab tables without a covering or padding. Sitting benches have been moved from the outside park areas into the treatment rooms, between the existing beds, their wood and wrought iron supporting a patient covered in blankets. All the nurses and hospital staff are completely dressed in hazmat suits, but many are only in surgical garb with face shields.

    Outside the clinic doors…a tourist bus is being used to transport the dead, in body bags, which are stacked into the bus like odd luggage..atop one another..to take away from the hospital. The bus I saw had just received eight bodies..as the loading crew went back for more, leaving the bus doors open..and the piled bodies in plain sight.

    The person who took the video did so knowing he would be breaking the law..and might be caught..but decided to act as a news reporter. He is a brave, but foolish, man…who owned a car…and drove to two hospitals to video what was happening. He was talking the entire time he was filming, telling us what he was seeing. The emotion and outrage in his voice, obvious.

    After seeing people die all around him, he was emotionally unable to continue his initial goal of going to all of Wuhan’s hospitals to film them…and went home.

    Naturally, this man was noticed by the Chinese security force, which took down the license of his car and probably photographed, or filmed, him. One can even see the Chinese security paying attention to the guy and study him carefully.

    So, shortly after the filming young man returned to his apartment, there was a loud knock on his door. The Chinese Security had found him and come to collect him, asking the fellow to open the door..so they could take the man’s temperature. The man refused to open the door, after asking for a warrant, and the ID of the people demanding entry…and got neither from the strangers at the door.

    The lad closed the door in their faces and turned away…the camera shows the man had only taken a step away from his door…when you could hear the door being broken down behind him…and the camera going crazy as the guy was brought to the floor.

    The fellow was taken away by force and vanished.

  51. Patient number 9 is another person in the San Francisco bay area. A lady who had recently traveled to Wuhan.

  52. You know SHTF when YouTube is threatening to shutdown sites for talking about Kung Flu.

    Ken, what about your site?

    They want to keep everyone in the dark so we all die?

    China has lost $400 billion in stock. Might have something else to do with it.

    Did Obama give control of the internet to China?

    1. Thor1, I don’t have a YT channel, so I’m not affected in that way. The way that I am affected is via the Big G’s algorithms and its AI — determining which search results are presented or NOT presented to people who are searching on XYZ. Sites like mine, even though I’m not out on the extreme edges of political discourse, are penalized to varying extents for having viewpoints to the right of center…

      1. Ken, thanks for clearing that up. I was just wondering if the government or big tech was trying to silence us judging by how far left big tech is.

  53. Hong Kong has 15 cases, South Korea has 15 cases and one guy had contact with 913 people, The USA has 11 reported with over 110 being investigated. Heard reports that the next 7 to 10 days will tell the story.

    China’s “offical”death rate has now exceeded the SARs epidemic and still hasn’t peaked.

    Also heard the Chinese leader hasn’t been seen for 5 days. In a bunker?

  54. Dr. Chris Martenson’s YT video for 2/2/2020 Coronavirus Continues Spreading Fast — How Bad Will It Get? recommended a website that is providing updated statistics that are broken down by country. One map of China is broken down into the different provinces.

    Check out Wuflu dot live

    As of 2/3/2020 at 3:49am, worldwide: 17518 confirmed cases; 362 deaths; 505 recovered

    Hubei Province in China (including city of Wuhan): 11,177 confirmed cases; 350 deaths; 295 recovered

    Unknown factors include cases not tested/confirmed, cases not reported intentionally.

  55. My patriot supply long term food storage has an ominous message:

    Rising Global Concerns over the Coronavirus

    Update: 02/01/20 12:27 AM MST

    A global emergency has been declared due to the spread of the coronavirus. This has created an unprecedented need for food storage and emergency preparedness items.

    My Patriot Supply spent the last several years building the industry’s largest warehouse and delivery infrastructure with multiple warehouses and Guaranteed 2-Day Delivery. However, even with these innovations, the demand for food storage has reduced our inventory, especially of our larger food storage kits.

    Orders are being shipped on a first come, first serve basis. It is highly recommended you get your order in NOW to get into the queue for the fastest possible service.

    In quick response to this increase in orders, My Patriot Supply has already implemented the following:

    Our teams are working 16 hours a day to ship as many orders as possible daily across our multiple warehouses
    We have contacted our suppliers and have expedited future purchase orders from as far as 90 days in advance on what is needed to create more food storage kits: this includes packaging, containers, ingredients (rice, pastas, vegetables, etc.)
    We have increased our customer service hours further into the evening and on Saturdays to better serve you
    With these efforts, we have shipped over 90% of our orders on time this past week. We will strive to continue our industry-leading, fast delivery to you in the coming days.

    1. Walmart online still has nearly all Augason Farms products available online with Next Day Delivery; while Amazon is also well-stocked, with SAME Day Delivery for Prime members.

      Pay attention to Thor’s early warning though. My Patriot Supply runs heavy ad rotations on talk radio; plus most of the bigger prep websites; so it stands to reason they will run out first.

    2. Thor. Patriot Supply. Is who I generally order from. I just read same message. Scary, 16 hrshifts trying to keep up, and they are just one company.evidently there are more prep type people than I thought.trying to stay ahead of the game so to speak. Be well all. Good luck and God bless.

  56. Now up to 11 cases with a husband and wife in San Benito CA. Husband had traveled to Wuhan and came home and his wife got it from him.

    The U of Mass, student has me worried as my nephew is in school there.

  57. I bought some supplies today. I spent 200 $ for food and I am now ready to go to the pharmacy.
    I find Elderberry juice. It is very expensive. 3,2 $ per liter! Children like this so I will buy more tomorrow.
    I already have honey in stock. My wife will buy some garlic.
    I will clean my bank account tomorrow. I have small amount of money on it. I think it’s better to have it at home. If this epidemy destroy economy I will be able to spend my money for serious things.
    People here are not understand what is going on. So they ignore situation.
    We will see very soon how much is this virus really dangerous. If it is not, I will have my supplies anyway. But if it is dangerous my family will at least have some chance.
    So far so good!

    1. Veteran,
      you might look around and find some elderberry bushes for your orchard. I am pretty sure they will grow there. We have four bushes that are now about 6 years old. last Fall we harvested 20 gallons of elderberries from them. That is enough for us, our kids, and our grandkids.

    2. Veteran have you access to elderberry plants growing in your area? Make sure it’s the edible version as in what your neighbors make jams and jelly’s from. There are several varieties of edible Elderberry.

      VERY Easy to propagate them. You could take a small sucker plant roots and all from the mother and plant that. You should trim them down to one meter in height to reduce transplant shock. Those trimming can be sued for cuttings propagation. See next.

      Even more fun is you can simply take cutting from last years growth in the spring 15 cm cutting with several leaf nodes. Some instructions call for an angled rooting end cut and a square top cut bot I generally forget to do the angle cut. Pinch off the leaf nodes on the lower two thirds leaving at least two leaf nodes for the top part, soak in water for 24 hours then place in a pot of moist potting soil (or at least rich garden soil). Commit to daily misting’s to keep damp but not wet. In about 6 weeks a gentle tug on the stick should have some resistance AND you HAVE Rooted that cutting. Ready for planting.

      So with a bit of help from a friendly gardener in your area you can have your own Elderberries next year.

      TWO different species are recommended but they do well alone. Plant initially a meter apart and while they WILL try to Flower and Fruit this year it’s better to trim them down to encourage good root growth. I found my being forgetful that good soil, plenty of water (Not a Swamp) and this tough plant will do quite well being left alone.

      1. Veteran I should proof read better, sorry. With the cuttings the rooting end peel back about a cm of the angled cut end to encourage rooting. They WILL root even if simply roughly cut and simply pushed into the ground but we are trying to improve the success rate here.

        Generally when I do cuttings I do 12 and expect 8 or so to thrive, I don’t feel bad if only 4 thrive and am thrilled if all of them thrive. I just give away the extras.

        Rooting hormone is useful but not critical. Do you have Weeping Willow Trees in your area? Take some green branch tips chop them roughly put in that cutting SOAKING Water for that 24 hours and you really increase the success rates.

        You can do cuttings on almost all berries, roses (vitamin C rose hips and natural barbed wire, I love to use graveyard roses as they are proven to survive neglect) and even fruit trees but those take years to grow into trees.

        Make friends with your gardeners, carry a sharp knife, pen and paper to remember what you cut and a plastic baggie with damp potting soil and get some cuttings.

        1. and according to herbalist the European Elderberry is better for medicine.
          Sambucus Nigra is used in most of the commercial products.

  58. Why is there still no news about the 3 patients in New York? They said the tests would take 36-48 hours, well it has been 2 days now. Are they infected or not? How many people have they come in contact with? How many surfaces have they interacted with? How many times did they eat out or order delivery? How many door knobs and public toilets have they flushed? How many Uber rides have they taken? Has the Uber driver disinfected his back seat after every passenger?

    1. Furthermore, why is it that we’re only hospitalizing people with nCov symptoms? Why isn’t everyone coming from China being tested? I know they’ve set aside a few military bases to quarantine new arrivals but why haven’t we quarantined everyone flying here from China since this crisis began? Just because they don’t have a fever they’re allowed to just walk around and interact with anyone and anything?

      1. Grits
        Never let a good epidemic Pandora’s box go to waste by not sharing those lovely virus with all those within breathing/sneezing range.
        (sorry it is a bit snarky)

        You are correct every flight in to the states should have been quarantined after seeing the YT article found by Thor1 which I watch today.

      2. Earlier Friday, officials said Americans who evacuated from Wuhan earlier in the week would be quarantined for up to 14 days at March Air Reserve Base in California — the first mandatory quarantine order in the U.S. in 50 years, according to NPR.

        As of Saturday, about 250 had died from the virus and about 12,000 infections had been confirmed, according to The New York Times. No deaths have been reported outside of China.

  59. Bills are made from ‘cloth’ not paper and bills can be washed if needed. How many of us have opened the washer or dryer to find clean money!

  60. Lysol…. from their web page, question answered on the coronavirus,,,
    Specific Lysol Products have demonstrated effectiveness to ‘SIMILAR’ 2019-nCoV virus on HARD NON – POROUS SURFACES when used in accordance with directions for use.

    Lysol® Disinfectant Spray EPA #777-99
    • Lysol® Disinfectant Spray Max Cover Mist #777-127
    • Lysol® Disinfecting Wipe EPA #777-114
    • Lysol® Multi-Surface Cleaner Pourable EPA #777-89
    • Lysol® Multi-Purpose Cleaner with Hydrogen Peroxide EPA #777-126
    • Lysol® Multi-Purpose Cleaner with Bleach EPA #777-83
    • Lysol® Power Bathroom Cleaner EPA #675-55
    • Lysol® Power Foam Bathroom Cleaner EPA #777-71
    • Lysol® Power Toilet Bowl Cleaner EPA #777-81
    • Lysol® Toilet Bowl Cleaner with Bleach EPA #777-102

  61. Someone or.persons mentioned this virus hitting just Asians and I had been racking my brain of an article I read sometime back.
    Found it….Dave Hodges of all web sites…..I take his articles with a grain of salt, but it appeared again.

    Has anyone heard of Chinese Defense Minister, Wei Fenghe?
    Appears that he had made a speech ‘recently’ July 10, 2019.

    Dave reports on the 12th of July words of Wei in his speech….just a few copies and pasted from the site:

    “Biological weapons are unprecedented in their ruthlessness, but if the Americans do not die then the Chinese have to die. If the Chinese people are strapped to the present land, a total societal collapse is bound to take place.”

    “Therefore in recent years, we have been conducting research on genetic weapons, i.e. those weapons that do not kill yellow people. But producing a result with this kind of research is extremely difficult.”

    “…..we have grasped the modern science and technology, including “clean” nuclear technology, gene weapons technology as well as biological weapons technology, and we can use powerful measures to eliminate their population on a large-scale

    “Therefore in recent years, we have been conducting research on genetic weapons, i.e. those weapons that do not kill yellow people. But producing a result with this kind of research is extremely difficult.”

    When I read this last summer, I thought BS
    Genetically modified bioweapons, based on gender?

    I dunno….fact or fiction

    1. Joe c
      Hate runs deep within certain nations, especially when they have been lied to for years. Why else would such a nation put a proprietary on companies inventions if they wanted to use China’s cheap labor.

      It is the old spider in the fly trap, come on in, but you can not leave unless you give us everything.

      Why Nixon every made the trip to open trade with that nation still baffles me to this day.

  62. The YT video was put out by Lisa Haven News on 1/30/2020. She presents a particular scientist who specializes in blending virus such as SARS & corona with bats. It is only 9 minutes long but well worth watching.

  63. was just looking at some photos of the new Chinese hospital built in a week. These photos were of parts of the building, near beginning. So, not so much detail, but there were several “units” already joined/built.

    what I found interesting, and am wondering if anyone noticed this, or is some kind of optical illusion…

    these “units/buildings” had lots of windows, but all of the windows appeared to have bars on them……?????????????

    1. okay, I have been googling all over, looking for photos of this hospital being built/done built. sure looks like bars to me.

      Cannot believe I didn’t notice this before.

      Hospital or Jail? ……. Will the doors be welded shut once facility is full?

  64. Sorry, this should have been a lone comment, not the reply I added further above.

    Earlier Friday, officials said Americans who evacuated from Wuhan earlier in the week would be quarantined for up to 14 days at March Air Reserve Base in California — the first mandatory quarantine order in the U.S. in 50 years, according to NPR.

    As of Saturday, about 250 had died from the virus and about 12,000 infections had been confirmed, according to The New York Times. No deaths have been reported outside of China.

  65. Hey all,
    I had lunch today with a friend who is a doctor/surgeon. His father left him a substantial inheritance which allows him to participate frequently with the Doctors without borders program. A good man,level headed,smart.
    So of course, lunch topic was China and the coronavirus.
    So I will share some of his/my thoughts (with his permission as long as he stays anonymous) on what we talked about…
    Now he travels to many third world countries to perform surgeries mostly cleft pallets and reconstructive surgeries for kids. He sees firsthand how poor medical care is in many parts of the world.
    So I will post again our conversation…

    1. So I asked what he thought about the number of cases that the Chinese claim there are.
      Knowing how they are, he said it would not surprise him if there were 10 times as many cases. Or as he put it you can probably add another zero to their figures.
      Asked him about outcomes for people who contract it. Those who have other major ailments, heart conditions, lung issues and those who smoke especially can expect “poor” outcomes. I won’t put down the 30 minutes of explanation he gave me with regard to what happens in the lungs. I imagine others have YouTube videos about it.The takeaway is most likely the secondary issues are what are causing fatalities. Secondary bacterial infections in the lungs attacking the already compromised immune system.
      Why they are seeing more sick men in China(70%to 30%women) is cultural. 70% of men smoke as compared to less than 5% women smoking . Makes sense as their lungs are already compromised.
      His thoughts are that of the people who they admit died most likely 70 plus % are men.
      The people who have “recovered ” most likely make up 70 plus % women. Dont know for sure as that data hasn’t been released as far as I know. Just his opinion on it but it made sense to me.
      He expects to see more cases in the states over the next 10 days or so. Put in the mix the seasonal flu as well.
      His counsel to me was to take precautions like you would for flu season . Wash hands,stay away from obviously sick people,clean surfaces you come in contact with especially your work area at your job.
      Those with already compromised immune systems need to be extra cautious and possibly socially distance themselves from others for the next few weeks. Boost your immune systems with vitamins,fruits and veggies.
      Kind of all the common sense stuff we talk about here.
      The last thing we talked about was what he thought about the idea of it being man made.
      He told me he hasabsolutely no opinion on that other than man should not mess with Mother Nature. She doesn’t need help when it comes to killing … I definitely agree with that

      1. Bill Jenkins Horse
        Could you and your friend look at news clip with documents on this matter. It will be a YT put out by Lisa Haven News on January 30, 2020.

        1. AC,
          Is that where she speculates it may be man made and released either accidentally or on purpose?
          Whether it is feral or man made is for folks above our pay grade to figure out.
          We are fortunate that we have Information and time to respond and plan.
          It’s better to be proactive rather than reactive.
          The everyday folks in Wuhan and elsewhere had little to no warning.
          I saw videos today where families were being locked in their apts. With iron bars across doors and windows by Chinese officials. Signs put up to warn neighbors to stay away. How are those people going to get food or water? Or are they just to die in their home? Crazy…
          So I suggest folks use this time we have to prepare as our own conscience dictates…

          1. BJH
            Yes. It is not far fetched as many would think. Yet, I do have a feeling that the DNA sequence was not fully rectified when this was released into the population, whether on purpose or not.

            Our dentists family is over there, last I heard they were told to remain home. Grocery shopping was with escorts only to & from the store, caught outside those boundaries an it was an automatic 7 year prison sentence.

          2. AC,
            Wow! 7 years! Nice!
            The coming weeks will be interesting.
            Imagine if there was no internet to gather Information from.
            We would be at the mercy of the talking heads from media and the government…

      2. BJH, Thanks for posting. This fits with all i have been able to find. Soon info will completely dry up from inside the socialist areas. I believe it is important that we do not become complacent in our responses because others are. Those in cities are under greatest threat and will be under greatest pressure. I am thankful we are rural and will be able to leave our house without contacting others…IF we choose to.

  66. So, treat it like the flu.
    Simple enough.
    I knew this.

    Would have been helpful if the Gov announced this simple solution.
    But being simple though I doubt people would believe it and panic anyway.

    1. Horse,and others…
      In no way was I saying to be complacent about this virus. The protocols are basically the same. However,this is more infectious and the mortality rate is higher than the regular flu.
      The fact that people may infect even though they feel fine is the real problem.
      I suggest you research ,either by reading or watching videos how it affects the lungs.
      I have seen the videos where the father has died and his son is also infected because he has serious shortness of breath.
      The issue I see is that it spreads around the world. We may have minimal problems at the beginning. People will again become way too complacent. Then infected people get in through the borders or airports and it spreads around quickly.
      The Spanish flu wandered around the world for a couple years. This could too…just saying

  67. Summary:

    Hong Kong reports first death from coronavirus (2nd non-mainland China death)
    Hong Kong closes more land borders with mainland
    Virus death toll rises to 425 in China (426 if we count one death abroad)
    Total number of confirmed cases tops 20,500, 171,329 cases under observation
    2 more cases reported in Germany
    President Xi threatens to punish local authorities if they fail to contain virus
    Xi may delay visit to South Korea amid pressure to restrict travel from China
    ZeroHedge

  68. Hong Kong reports first death from coronavirus (2nd non-mainland China death)
    Virus death toll rises to 425 in China (426 if we count one death abroad)
    Total number of confirmed cases tops 20,500, 171,329 cases under observation
    2 more cases reported in Germany

    zerohedge

  69. Who are the psychopathic Globalist, who would stand to gain, from a world wide pandemic? Answer? BANKERS.!

    China and Russia are on board with the Globalists; they have both declared their firm support of the Globalist Banking System; IMF, World Bank etc., and the Head of the Rothschild China Central Bank sits on the Board of Directors of the Khazarian Mother Ship: The Bank for International Settlements.

    Release the hounds of bio-weapons… 19,600 cases in China, 426 deaths, 424 in china, ALL deaths are Ethnic Asian. Not ONE case in Central America, South America, nor Africa. Totally different Ethnic backgrounds.

    I just do not understand the World response to this out-break. Doesn’t make sense, UNLESS, TPTB, KNOW this is a Genetically Modified Organism, design to kill Asian people.

    Just thinking outside the box. Wow, my tinfoil hat is getting very heavy.

    1. SMG,
      The problem I have with it is you would expect there would be multiple out break locations to collapse the medical system as quickly as possible for maximum exposure to the virus.
      Seems like its gross incompetence and scared people covering their own asses.
      Now their trying to get ahead of it with harsh and radical measures. Everyday folks are taking it in the neck because of it.
      Right now it’s just conjecture on our part but it is definitely a S**t show to be sure.
      I’m hoping that its just human error and not machinations of evil men…

      1. Bill Jenkins Horse

        That’s just the problem, there is NO major outbreak, outside of China.

        Why? There’s plenty of proof, this virus escaped China, WHY, no large outbreak in the White race, or Black, or Mexican?

        There’s not enough info, on the cases outside of China, to know what the Ethnic background of the infected is. But, I’m willing to bet, it’s mostly Asian.

        That’s why, the response world wide of this viral outbreak, doesn’t make any sense. Unless, the TPTB, know something, we don’t.

        If this virus is GMO, the first outbreak with be mild, compared to what happens next. Count on it.!

        I’ve dealt with mutated viruses in baby calves (Rota-corona scours). It is a no win situation. No vaccine, no cure, just death.

        1. SMG,
          I have a bit of a different take or angle on this…
          This virus breakout started in the middle of China, in a city that is heavily, densely populated, and a major travel hub.
          It seems logical that Asians would be the population most hard hit.

          Add to that the stories emerging of doctors trying to raise early warnings only to be told to stop it under threat of punishment, and you have a virus now running through dense population during heavy travel season and allowed to flourish.

          The rest of the world knows now, and can jump on any cases that pop up, and with individual treatment rather than packing people into clinics where everyone ends up spreading the virus around.

          I’m not so sure we can attribute the spread among Asains to ethnicity, but perhaps to a combination of circumstances.

          Just my 2c worth.

          1. SoCalGal,
            The Chinese don’t have a diverse ethnic culture like most countries so it being Asians affected does make sense.
            My Doctor friend was of the opinion that because of the large percentage(70%) of Chinese men smoking(their whole lives) that older men would have poor outcomes to this virus.
            What we have not seen or heard is how many children have contracted it.
            Kids usually get sick too.
            Has anyone seen anything?
            This whole thing is troubling but makes for a great distraction from all the other craziness going on.

          2. BJH,
            I have not seen a study on children yet. But, I did read in one of the reports on the CDC site that there was a family afflicted that included children. The children were doing better than the adults. One child in particular was doing well, but may have been because she was more obedient about keeping her mask on outdoors.

            Also read a couple of stories where the kids are carriers, like walking pneumonia, both lungs involved… but the kids were up and about. There was speculation that the kids are shedding virus but not going down, a sort of Typhoid Mary deal. But it was anecdotal and unverified.

            I did spend a few minutes chatting with a friend who is a retired medical researcher, PhD. His opinion is that it is probably too soon to make a judgment on the origin (nature vs man-made). But, he did emphasize that viruses survive by shifting, and that he would expect the virus to evolve as it transmits and as it affects people in different areas.

            He said that a drug combo that may work now for some people may not work as well for others, or that testing may not be as effective as the characteristics evolve.

        2. SMG,
          Just watched a video on the modular hospital they just completed. More being built and large buildings are also being converted all over to accommodate the sick.
          Common sense should tell us there are way more seriously infected people than we have been told.
          On the subject of clusters outside of China…the fact that nothing has been said about Africa,Eastern Europe, South America,Mexico is of concern.
          Those places are usually the first places we see outbreaks. Leads me to believe it’s there but there is not enough of a cohesive modern medical system to know it yet.
          My concern is the same as yours. Seems no one outside of China is taking it seriously. Complacency, incompetence or insider knowledge?
          I personally am not taking a wait and see then act stand.
          After our group all got sick from friends visiting we put protocols in place. We also purchased medical equipment to outfit a couple rooms. A few members have been taking classes all last year in the nursing school.
          Just half measures but its something.
          The next few weeks may be all we have to get ready or it may turn to nothing at all.
          Time will tell I guess…

        3. Stand My Ground,

          Expect an outbreak in Mexico in the next 5-14 days. An infected resident from China took rides with Uber. The company has shut down just over 100 accounts–people who also rode with those drivers.

  70. Article: “Clorox vs. Lysol: Which Disinfecting Wipes Kill More Germs?”

    Clorox and Lysol disinfecting wipes both kill 99.9% of germs, bacteria, and viruses when used as directed. The key phrase to pay attention to is: when used as directed. To kill 99.9% of germs, you need to use enough wipes so that the surface you’re cleaning remains wet for at least 4 minutes.

    Most people associate Clorox with bleach; however, both Clorox and Lysol disinfecting wipes are completely free of bleach. Instead, their active ingredient is Alkyl C12-18 Dimethylbenzyl Ammonium Chloride. This ingredient is an antimicrobial ammonium compound responsible for disinfecting and sanitizing surfaces. It’s a common ingredient used in many different Environmental Protection Agency approved cleaning products and solutions.

    (clip)

    To ensure the surface is completely disinfected of germs, use enough wipes so that the surface remains visibly wet for 4 minutes. Giving the product time to work is the key part of the directions that most people gloss over. If you wipe down an entire kitchen counter with one wipe, it’ll probably dry in less than a minute. For small surfaces, one wipe could be enough, but for larger surfaces, you’ll likely need to use more than one.

    (clip)

    What Types of Germs Do Disinfecting Wipes Kill?

    Clorox Disinfecting Wipes
    (view on amzn)

    Clorox claims to be able to kill the following viruses and bacteria:

    Viruses: Human Coronavirus, Influenza A2 Virus, and Rhinovirus.

    Bacteria: Staph, E. coli, MRSA, Salmonella, Strep and Kleb.

    Lysol Disinfecting Wipes
    (view on amzn)

    Lysol claims to be able to kill the following viruses and bacteria:

    Viruses: Herpes Simplex Virus Type 1, Human Coronavirus, Influenza A Virus, and Respiratory Syncytial Virus.

    Bacteria: Streptococcus pyogenes (Strep), Staphylococcus aureus (Staph), Escherichia coli O157:H7 (E. coli), and Methicillin Resistant Staphylococcus aureus (MRSA).

    Lysol also claims that their wipes kill 95% of allergens, including pet dander, dust mites, and pollen.

    1. Just use bleach. Mix it with water and a little dish soap. Done. Kills everything…and is cheaper.

        1. Information on environmental survivability and the effectiveness of disinfectants for 2019-NCov is currently lacking (at least I’ve not found good data yet and searching regularly). However, Coronaviruses are surprisingly hardy as a group (including SARS, to which NCoV is closely related – so using SARS data, or data from other viruses in same family or with other similarities is best we can do until NCoV specific data starts coming out).

          Full text article available for free: https://www.mdpi.com/1999-4915/4/11/3044

          The article is dense, Table 2 list disinfectants and effectiveness against several types of virus including one from the Corona family.

          Take away – bleach concentration greater than 0.1% required, so be careful with your dilutions. 70% ethanol was effective. Dimethylbenzyl Ammonium Chloride (Clorox, Lysol) was not effective at concentrations/in conditions tested.

          The specific concentrations used, conditions, and definition of “effective” may or may not apply to you situation, so be cautious how you interpret this data, but I thought it might help.

          1. I am currently using 1/4 cup bleach into 1-gallon water (in a jug) for my counters. And I made some wipes with 100% saturation of 70% isopropyl alcohol for my store trip yesterday. At home, I occasionally use a spritzer of straight iso. alcohol for knobs.

    2. My posting above has some more info. Lysol states kills on Hard Non Porous Surfaces not clothing or money or any other surface. It also states has been shown to kill a SIMILAR virus to 2019-nCoV. No test have been done on this particular strain.

  71. “In no way was I saying to be complacent”
    I never said that, I avoid flu having people like the plague..
    One time in my life I got it on purpose, wanted to deal with it then rather than later.
    In other downer news :

    4 Plagues Are Marching Across Asia Simultaneously: Coronavirus, African Swine Fever, H5N1 Bird Flu, And H1N1 Swine Flu
    theeconomiccollapseblog . com/archives/4-plagues-are-marching-across-asia-simultaneously-coronavirus-african-swine-fever-h5n1-bird-flu-and-h1n1-swine-flu

    1. Horse,
      Just wanted to be clear about it.
      Seems like it might become the “perfect storm” as flu seasons go.
      My friends explanation on how our lungs work and are affected by these flu bugs was fascinating and scary at the same time. Slowly smothering to death is not my idea of a good way to check out.
      Perilous times we live in…

    2. All, The thing that stands out , …all these have VIRAL component. Some cases of most are weakening of the weakest for lung infections that are bacterial.. like MRSA ,Serratia M,. having concoctions both antiviral and antibacterial will be key… to prevention and treatments.

      1. Just Sayin’,
        Key point you have made here. The Corona-virus is the primary infection, but secondary infections are occurring that may be bacterial in nature. It will take anti-viral and anti-bacterial medicines to treat. The secondary infections could be a number of different bacteria. So….. that would point to having “broad spectrum” systemic medicines to fight this outbreak, not just specialized drugs and/or vaccines designed to kill one or two types of bacteria or virus alone.
        The big Question is, ‘Will the pharmaceutical industry be able to provide the quantities of allopathic (doctor prescribed) drugs in a major outbreak, that would be required to contain it? ‘
        Both anti-viral and anti-biotic “systemic drugs” ( drugs that travel through the whole body killing all viruses and bacteria) are available now, but may come into short supply in a pandemic.
        This is where the natural antiviral and antibacterial herbs we have been talking about come into play. They can be had and stocked by anyone, and they are effective. By taking them, and having them in our bodies ahead of time, they can help ward off disease.(prophylactic action). Additionally they can supplement allopathic medicines if you are able to get them.

      1. Thanks again Ken for giving us a platform to post our thoughts and ideas on this situation…
        Btw, folks should watch medcram videos on youtube. Update 10 he drops updated info and explains how they actually have a score that lets them know what your chances of dying from it will be due to health factors in your life.
        Definitely worth watching his stuff if you haven’t seen him before…

  72. A question for Ision?

    And maybe anyone else who has info to share…I only single out Ision because there is clearly some extensive prior experience and knowledge there that is directly related to my question.

    Was curious about surplus gas masks…

    I’m sure many of us here have them, what should we consider about their use against coronavirus?

    My sense of this is that NBC filters should be effective against NCoV, or other respiratory viral infections. At least as good as commercial or medical masks.

    However, if I remember correctly my mask in the service had filters with expiration dates. Not sure if this is for the material used, some substance on the filter media, etc. My surplus masks are German and Swiss, not really sure if their filters have expiration dates (will be checking and probably using google translate), although I’m sure they are expired. 90’s vintage and earlier.

    Also rubber, elastic, gaskets and valves will degrade over time.

    So my current plan, if needed, is to avoid, avoid, avoid. If that fails, plan is to use new commercial or medical masks (N95 or better), but should I run out, which is a real concern, I might find the need to use a surplus mask.

    Would need to carefully inspect all the rubber and valves, make sure it fits well (there goes the goatee…sigh, but I guess it needs to go with any mask), and do a negative pressure test.

    Regarding the filter, I guess if it doesn’t rattle and nothing seems to be dislodging or coming out when breathing through it, it just might work. Don’t know if there is a better way to test. Because “just might work” gives me stomach cramps.

    I’m trying to remember what substance was used for odor intrusion during N95 fit testing at work, totally slips my mind. But maybe something like that could be used for additional testing of a surplus mask and filters.

    If they are a viable option, it has the advantage/disadvantage of being reusable. Outer surface would need to be thoroughly and carefully disinfected before removal/reuse. So, useable longer term, which might be necessary, but critical to get the cleaning done right!

    Any other thoughts or suggestions?

    1. The military gas masks I used where all U.S. issue and new at the time. The M17A1 was the commonly issued mask and one could install various filters into it for specific filtration of specific agents.

      I hated this mask, as the filer could not be changed while still in a contaminated environment, and they all needed to be changed after a very short time. The moisture from your own breath would cause out best filters to degrade, as it caused filter membranes to crack and allow the chemical agent to pass through. Simply changing the filter took time and required expertise to do so. If you did not re-assemble the mask interior correctly, the mask would fail. I remember being told the Russian nerve agent then in vogue would penetrate out best filter in about nine minutes. So, this was our “life span,” during which we could remain exposed to this agent, before we had to return to a safe environment. Nice, eh?

      The other mask was not issued to personnel, who were not on a Government fire team 24/7. I liked that mask…and, today, this better mask’s design is now the standard issue. The best feature being one is able to change filers while in a contaminated environment, quickly…and the filtration technology is much better now.

      The use of surplus military masks is risky, as the standard filter kept in them is designed only for riot control agents, such as various tear gases. Most of the filters in these masks are USED and not new. So, someone else already breathed through them during training.

      If you can obtain sealed filters for these foreign masks, the type of filter will be on the package. Anything is better than nothing, even if they are expired. Check the mask for degraded, one-way valves, for water damage at the exterior exhaust, for ripped stud holes inside the mask, for hardening and cracking of the “rubber” and for discoloration and oxidation…weak straps.

      I would rather purchase a full, or half, face mask with new valves and N99, N100, or P100 filters, which can be removed and replaced without taking off the mask. These will probably be a better tool..and cost about the same as a collector, vintage, military mask.

      I would rather used a n95 mask with exhale valve, which has a lined interior gasket, which snugs the seal to the face contours automatically…then wear eye protection of some sort…but, only when one is going to be in hazard of direct association of the possibly infected. But, if you ARE in a contaminated environment…everything on your person..and your person, itself…will face contamination to its exterior. Learn to remove your contaminated clothes properly, so you will not contaminate yourself further by doing this incorrectly. Place contaminated clothes…yourself…directly into the washing machine..or into a plastic bag..and use a bleach solution to decon everything else.

      Using the various “wipes” to kill virus is a weak idea. 1/4 cup bleach in 1 gallon of water..is all you need, and this will kill better. A “wipe” needs to make WET the item being decontaminated for about FOUR MINUTES for it to work. Meaning the object must remain WET with the chemical from the wipe to function…for at least four minutes…no matter if it is a Lysol, or a Clorox wipe. The bleach solution above works faster and kills better…and you can step up the bleach content at will. Mix a little soap into the bleach solution to allow it to cling to surfaces better.

      Since your expeditions into the hot zone should be extremely rare, the number of times you will need to decontaminate in this way should also be very rare. When it comes to decon, the EPA can suck it.

      I hope this helps…

      1. Ision,
        Oh, yes, that does help tremendously! Thank you for the clarifications and added information regarding military masks (as well as all the other incredible insights you are sharing for all of us). Really happy I didn’t know those things about the M17 while I was in…would have made for sleepless nights! As you suggest, I’ll stay out of hot zones at all cost. I have several commercial N95, N100, P100 masks and respirators that would be used first. I’ve ordered some new filters for the military masks and will inspect them and trial fit, but they will just be for absolute last resort (which I don’t expect to get to). Otherwise they’ll stay on the display shelf where they probably belong (with my old M17A1).

  73. I bought one of those for Halloween.. all black, it covers 4/5 of your head.
    The real old ones have asbestos as I believe to be the main filtering agent.
    I’m talking from the cold war era.
    Gotta be good : )

    1. Horse,
      I hope you are wrong about asbestos, but as widely used as that stuff was, I wouldn’t be shocked. One of my filters is Russian…probably not cold war era, but I’m not really sure. Don’t plan on using it. When I was young I was goofing around with a surplus Russian mask, put it on, and got a snoot full of powder when I inhaled. I really, really hope it was Talc.

      1. from wikipedia

        Many stories have originated from various Russian gas masks and their filters that are now common in surplus stores; the GP-5 was often considered to have an asbestos filter. Although the filter is made so that the asbestos fibres cannot be breathed in if the filter layer is not damaged, these expired filters and others should be avoided for risk of health. All Russian Cold War period gas mask filters contain asbestos and should be avoided.

        All the newer ones will be fine but very costly.

  74. Heres something that crossed my mind,
    JC mentioned a few blurbs about it being a selective virus,
    Heres a thought,
    Chinese were trying to make a virus that affected everyone but Asians.
    Some spook embedded in their bio research team took a one off shot and made the virus so it only affects Asians of Chinese blood, then released it. In many cases these pathogens can be altered by switching around one segment in a chain, they could also be trying to create something that would build immunity but that in so doing would gass the weakest, from the perspective of a communist dictatorship, a necessary sacrifice…
    the whole thing smells of an un natural flu.
    But then again, last flu season saydeaths in the 30k range anyway but nobody noticed

    1. I sense that you are wearing a tin foil hat.

      Engaging in such fantasies without factual support does not help anyone.

      1. Opinions are like arseholes bub,
        Was just suggesting a hypothetical possibility, dont read it if ya dont like it

  75. It was not that many years ago that we accepted that most children would contract a number of diseases – measles, mumps, chicken pox, ….

    Are all our attempts to eradicate all viruses leaving us more vulnerable to the big one? Are we pushing against the laws of nature? I have heard that healing is the mostly the work of our own bodies and minimally helped by medical intervention. I guess my clone will tell me in the near future.

    1. My clone is being developed in a University lab and therefore has a big mouth, no backbone and no balls – so I will not believe everything it says – it being binary neutral.

  76. Read a good, short article on BBC News this morning called “The Chinese doctor who tried to warn others about coronavirus.”

    This dr. is an ophthalmologist in a Wuhan hospital, saw several patients exhibiting SARS-like symptoms, and put a message up on a doctor-group chat board warning them, and recommending protective clothing to avoid infection (Dec 30th).

    A few days later, he was called into a . g o v Security Office and made to sign a form that said he was stubborn, impertinent and making false comments that “severely disturbed social order.”

    He was warned he would be brought to justice if he did not stop. He was one of 8 such doctors in trouble for “spreading rumors”. By Jan 10th, he was coughing. 3 days later he was feverish and admitted to hospital.

    Jan 20th, China declared the outbreak – officially. Doctor tested SEVERAL times for coronavirus, all came back negative. On Jan 30th, a test finally showed positive and he is now, finally being treated for it.

    In late January, officials had apologized, but other doctors had also already been infected because party leaders insisted doctors were not at risk. This doctors parents are now also ill.

    We always learn after the fact that it takes a series of actions, bad decisions, etc.., to create a perfect storm of a tragedy. Seems like this is one of those awful chain-of-events that will cost who-knows-how-many lives before it’s through.

    And, keep in mind the doctor tested negative SEVERAL times before the positive reading came through.

    1. SoCalGal, Did the article say the type of test performed? Was it ELISA or PCR? Do you recall?

      1. MT,
        The article did not say, the doctor just said he was tested several times before registering a positive… and he was already sick including a fever.

    2. Communist government and country,

      That pretty much says it all,
      Big red flag says stay away and caution,

      Shocker huh

  77. Very interesting (and frightening) research article on the background of coronavirus — research, development, etc. The article also discusses bioweaponry. The authors believe that China is gearing up for worldwide biotech dominance.

    The article is “Did China Steal Coronavirus From Canada And Weaponize It?” (date Jan 26, 2020) over at TheBurningPlatform dot com

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    It seems to me that the coronavirus is but one biologic of many that is being ‘studied’ for possible bioweaponry. Once we collectively get past the coronavirus, it would be prudent that we become better versed and better prepared in this type of man-made disasters.

    1. Modern Throwback
      That was a great article, copied to email account now sharing with family(head in the sand)and friends.
      She just worked her way into that lab without anyone becoming suspicious of her intentions of borrowing a few containers for good old China.

      What happened to the ol days where using a firing squad was a basic requirement when espionage was discovered? Now a days they slap their hands send them home with the prize and a cookie.😫 Good grief we are all in D E E P crap! mo no longer humble

  78. The NY Times just published an article with a few points that I had not previously read:

    China’s Death Toll Soars as Wuhan Plans Roundup of Infected

    A Chinese official, likening the outbreak to “wartime conditions,” ordered Wuhan to set up mass quarantine centers.
    Here’s what you need to know:

    Death toll in China rises to 564 as lockdown enters third week.
    Wuhan is told to round up infected residents for mass quarantine camps.
    In the quiet streets of Wuhan, the party tries to be heard.
    Italian hospital uses an experimental treatment.
    Day 2 of a cruise ship quarantine: permission to breathe.

    The lockdown is unprecedented in scale and experts have questioned its effectiveness. Wuhan and Hubei Province have borne the brunt of the epidemic as the sudden shutdown of transportation links into and around the area slowed the shipping of vital medical supplies. The fatality rate in Wuhan is 4.1 percent and 2.8 percent in Hubei, compared to 0.17 percent elsewhere in mainland China.

    The Chinese government says the quarantine has prevented a broader outbreak, but its effects on residents of the lockdown zone have raised ethical concerns.

    1. More:

      Many doctors believe that deaths and infections are undercounted because hospitals and laboratories are under severe strain to test for the virus. Local officials in Hubei Province, the center of the outbreak, have called on health care workers to speed up the process.

      Many sick residents in Hubei also say that they have been turned away by overstretched hospitals, which lack test kits and beds.

      Wuhan is told to round up infected residents for mass quarantine camps.

      A senior Chinese official has ordered the authorities in the city of Wuhan to immediately round up all residents who have been infected with the coronavirus and place them in isolation, quarantine or designated hospitals.

      Sun Chunlan, a vice premier tasked with leading the central government’s response to the outbreak, said city investigators should go to each home to check the temperatures of every resident and interview infected patients’ close contacts.

      “Set up a 24-hour duty system. During these wartime conditions, there must be no deserters, or they will be nailed to the pillar of historical shame forever,” Ms. Sun said.

      The city’s authorities have raced to meet these instructions by setting up makeshift mass quarantine shelters this week. But concerns are growing about whether the centers, which will house thousands of people in large spaces, will be able to provide even basic care to patients and protect against the risk of further infection.

      A lockdown across the city and much of its surrounding province has exacerbated a shortage of medical supplies, testing kits and hospital beds. Many residents, unwell and desperate for care, have been forced to go from hospital to hospital on foot, only to be turned away without being tested for the virus, let alone treated. They have had to resort to quarantines at home, risking the spread of the virus within families and neighborhoods.

      The city has set up makeshift shelters in a sports stadium, an exhibition center and a building complex. Some went into operation on Thursday. The shelters are meant for coronavirus patients with milder symptoms, the government has said.

      Photographs taken inside the stadium showed narrow rows of simple beds separated only by desks and chairs typically used in classrooms. Some comments on Chinese social media compared the scenes to those from the Spanish flu in 1918.

      According to a widely shared post on Weibo, a popular social media site, “conditions were very poor” at an exhibition center that had been converted into a quarantine facility. There were power failures and electric blankets could not be turned on, the user wrote, citing a relative who had been taken there, saying that people had to “shiver in their sleep.”

      There was also a staff shortage, the post said, where “doctors and nurses were not seen to be taking note of symptoms and distributing medicine,” and oxygen devices were “seriously lacking.”

      (clip)

      Soothing recorded messages playing over loudspeakers say that the government cares, and admonish residents to wear masks and minimize outings. Red banners hang on road barriers and walls, telling residents not to heed hearsay about miracle cures.

      “Don’t panic,” says one banner. “Don’t allow rumors to make a mess of things.”

      But after Wuhan officials silenced early talk of the outbreak as “rumor mongering,” many residents are skeptical about the reassuring official message.

      “First, we need honesty and transparency now,” said Mao Shuo, a 26-year-old engineering company worker who had briefly tugged down her mask outside for a cigarette. “Who’s to blame, who gets punished, that must come, but now we just want to survive.”

      1. Two Chinese citizens from Wuhan who have the coronavirus remain in critical condition at a hospital in Rome, where they are being treated with an experimental combination of antiviral drugs.

        The Lazzaro Spallanzani hospital, which specializes in infectious diseases, said in a statement on Thursday that the World Health Organization had identified the drugs as “the most promising, based on the available data.”

        One drug, ritonavir, is often used with other medications to treat H.I.V. and has shown “antiviral activity on coronaviruses,” according to the hospital. The other drug, remdesivir, was developed as a treatment for Ebola but has not yet been approved for use against any disease. There is some evidence that it could work against the new coronavirus, and Gilead, the company that owns the remdesivir patent, has donated doses to China.

        With no proven cure in sight, the race is on to find an effective treatment for the new coronavirus. In China, scientists have reported preliminary success in treating coronavirus patients with a combination of Arbidol, an antiviral drug used for treating influenza in China and Russia, and Darunavir, an anti-H.I.V. drug. But the researchers did not say how many patients they had treated with the combination therapy, and their findings have not been reviewed by outside experts.

        The Chinese authorities have also turned to other types of treatments. In a treatment plan released last week, the National Health Commission of China listed traditional Chinese remedies as well as antiviral drugs.

        Source: “Coronavirus Live Updates: China’s Death Toll Soars as Wuhan Plans Roundup of Infected” NY Times dot com

  79. The Chinese Doctor, who is called the “whistle blower” for his early attempt to get the correct information out to the West, has died of the nCov virus.

    This virus is a profound killer! The number killed by the nCov in China is in the tens of Thousands…the infected in the HUNDREDS of Thousands.

    It really does not matter what you believe, nCov does not care. All actual numbers are unknown, and unknowable…just as they were in 1918.

    Everything about this virus qualifies as your worst nightmare.

    One’s only hope is to stay alive until this Pandemic is cover, or until one can manage to acquire a working cure, or already possess the ability to fight this virus off.

    Isolation seems to be the ONLY effective action. But, even this could only be a delaying action.

  80. With this doctor’s death, makes one wonder if he had ’a little help’ in his passing, knowing he knew a little too much…..??

  81. Ok everyone, If it gets as bad as you are preparing for there will be no mail service.

    Your best hope is to change all your bills and important stuff to e-mail and do online banking.

    I don’t have anything coming in the mail that is that important that I need to even get it.

    Go to a web site and find out what supplies you need for an extended time (like for a hurricane) and be prepared for most things. You can’t prepare for everything.

    Once people are told to stay home, there will be people that will go out just because. Example: during a snow storm (the fools go out) during a hurricane, even during a Tornado, some people just don’t care.

    1. Ken, you are nuts!!! This flu is just a flu. Now H1N1 was a bad flu and did we go into as much tizzy as the coronavirus? No, we didn’t. I had it and I say again, it was a bad one.

      1. Well I hope you are not over sixty and living in Italy. They will no longer treat anyone over 60. People are complaining that no one is collecting the bodies in apartments. This flu has overwhelmed all medical facilities. Doctors have to chose who to try and save. You can expect the same here once we hit peak.

      2. Mary Nell Pettitt,
        It’ ok , Ken fits in with the rest of us here., that is why we gather around the campfire. regularly and discuss things that may help each other thru any kind of “hard time” like bad weather event, job loss or economical downturn..Because of this site and others similar many of us have an amount of our needs that keep us from needing items when others panic purchase…. If you don’t like it- you do not need to return. Just “don’t let the door Hit ya’ where the Good Lord Split ya.”..
        Unless you were tested for the different forms of flu , you DON”T know which one -to or there or 4(?) you had… there are at least 3 ..and have been for many months.. Type A, Type B , and another neither(.? )possibly this kung flu? or is the Kung flu number 4.. not known since neither the non A non B type was not identified … and no tests were available for Kung Flu until recently… and many who have all symptoms are not tested.

  82. Various claims, suggestions discussion, ideas etc. This is the first time I’ve come across MSB. What qualification does MSB have that tells me I should listen to MSB over WHO or CDC?

      1. Chinese bots and trolls flooding Twitter, zerohedge, facebook etc. now, I’m sure MSB and similar sites will see an uptick also…

    1. DFV, COMMON SENSE. apparently you have a lack ? or brainwashed?
      .. read and think for yourself. ask a few questions try to find the answers…
      .. what does the WHO fund? and WHO funds WHO? Who funds the CDC and what organizations do they fund? Have they applied to get gain off of others distress? follow the Money. You may learn something.

    2. DFV,

      Common sense and a decent ability to separate propaganda from fact helps. If you tend to place more faith on government approved information without doing some research yourself to verify the veracity of what the “experts” are telling you, you probably wouldn’t fit in here. If you have the ability to absorb and test for yourself advice from others, most times, hands on tested advice, you will fit in fine. Granted, that takes a little effort on your part, but you will find it rewarding.

      NRP has been telling us for years that 600 rolls of toilet paper might not be enough…………

      1. Lol
        Well, you all made my typing shorter.

        Copy/paste
        Short answer

        “What qualification does MSB have that tells me I should listen to MSB over WHO or CDC?”

        Common Sense

    3. DFV:

      “What qualification does MSB have that tells me I should listen to MSB over WHO or CDC?”

      Answer – None whatsoever. Note that it cost you nothing to read it too.

      What are your qualifications? What can you contribute?

  83. I’ve been trying to find an answer to this question – How long does it take to die from the Coronavirus from the time a person is infected? I don’t have the virus, but I was wondering. It seems like it is a very short time.

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