Use This Time To Get Ready For The Coming Second Wave Of This Virus

138 Comments

1. indeed, just had this conversation with hubby and family yesterday. My sister asked if she could use some space in my freezer. I don’t have any space left. It’s packed to the top. And you can’t buy a freezer (in a timely fashion–like NOW) for love or money.

   I am canning pork loin today.

   also, today, I will be ordering canning lids in bulk. I do have plenty in storage, but how soon till we can get them again? My daughter wants to learn how to can and I want her to be able to do this. Ppl will begin to figure this out and want to learn to can, too. Which is a good thing… but how will the market be with all of us after the same thing?

   She and I are picking up any canning jars we can find at the stores.

   Seems there is a perfect storm on the horizon.

   1. Grandee,

      Good heads up on the canning jars. I am noticing an absence of wide mouth pints in our area. Wide mouth lids are scarce, too. If anyone needs more canning jars/lids, now is the time to get them. I ordered some reusable lids from Harvest Guard, on-line. They were still in stock a week ago; not sure if they still are.

   2. Grandee, I asked DH to pick up as many wide mouth lids as he could find last week. He said the stock was low, but he bought whatever there was….I use wide mouth predominantly….so wanted to be able to use the jars on the shelf. Good point though for all of us to GET READY for the supply shortages.

   3. Grandee;
      I went to Amazon the other day to see if regular canning lids were still available, and boy, oh boy, have they increased in price. I’m glad I did my annual purchase of 12 dozen regular lids back in January. Although, when you’re talking about being able to feed your family, they are worth it at almost any price.

   4. I swung by one of the local Amish/Mennonite bulk food stores yesterday on my way home from the “big city” and bought a “sleeve” of wide mouth canning lids.

      Not sure where these lids are made (suspect not here), but they’re used by the local A/M communities and a small sample I tried last year seemed to work just fine. They sell these lids by weight, and it works out to about @2.19/dozen. Next trip will get some bulk rings.

      I also picked up 2 blocks of SAF-Instant yeast and a bag of bulk active dry yeast (Red Star). Wondering what the best way to store the active dry yeast might be….vacuum seal and freeze or refrigerate?

      I don’t normally use a dough enhancer, but if I bought that in bulk (plastic bag of various weights), how would it be best stored?

      1. I freeze my yeast also. I have dough enhancer in bulk in cans. When I open one I store the rest in the frig as I am using it. I live at 7600 feet and notice when I use the enhancer, my bread doesn’t fall.

      2. Finally, I freeze my yeast until ready to use. Then I keep it in the frig. I did purchase some dough enhancer awhile back and put it in canning jar with O2 remover. Seems to ‘keep it just fine.

   5. From the west side of CA here, all local big and small stores appear to be out of freezers. Wal-Mart was very well stocked today, (but no TP) and most stores are now requiring masks to enter. Noticed hair clippers are gone from all shelves which makes sense given no barber shops are open.

      Have got two refrigerators and a large freezer and still wondering if its enough.. Stay safe and healthy everyone.

      1. Freezers are in short supply! Things are looking up, though. This morning, the soonest I could get a freezer from Home Depot was June. Now, there are several available for delivery May 1. Keep checking, if you are looking to buy.

         1. BTW…The Maytag freezers are “designed, engineered, and assembled in the USA” (Ohio). I’m sure the parts come from somewhere else, but at least part of it is from here.

         2. Nice, thanks for the tip!

         3. Take a look at Best Buy online. Was looking for a friend and found a convertible fridge/freezer that is now scheduled to be delivered next week. Whether or not it really gets there is a different things.

            DT

         4. also, for those looking for freezers, check out Hardware Stores/Lumber Stores/Many Drug Stores/Car Stores…— just a few of the “odd” places I’ve seen freezers and fridges for sale. Often they are “specialty” ones, say with logos on, but not always. And, one may be able to order fr these places/have delivered. If folks are beating down their doors, they likely happy to place an order.

2. Ken,
   As usual…a good article with great reminder of lifestyle and planning. Thank you.
   Several of my children (late 30’s and 40’s now) are NOW on board with all that hard planning I did years ago. In fact, several have asked me to UPDATE the family “talents” list so that we can share supplies and chores should we need to….so proud of them all. By talents…some are medical professionals, some are LEOs, some teachers…you get the picture. Fortunately ALL like to garden, bake, cook, shoot, organize and clean, etc. AND having grown up in a LARGE family, they all understand the need for organized chaos LOL. So, the new questionnaire has gone out via email to ask what they have and/or would be willing to share/do in a crisis that put us mostly together and/or at least networked for a supply chain. Be glad to share that questionnaire with others if they want.

   1. Pioneer Woman
      Since you do not mind sharing, I for one would like that questionnaire.
      Thank you

      1. Will send it along to Ken and see if he wants to post! or maybe just forward.

   2. I would also like a copy of the questionnaire, if that is possible.

      1. – Pio,
         May I add that I would like to see that questionnaire, as well?
         – Papa S.

   3. Pioneer woman, would like the questionnaire if you would. Many thanks. I am also very concerned about the Fall and Winter. I have continued to do things and put stuff away. Have to check my lids and jars to see how many of each I have, so far we can still get them in the stores but that could change in a heartbeat. Need to contact the yarn + material stores and see if I can get more yarn, material and the sewing necessities. Can’t go into the stores yet but they will do pick up on some things around here if I can order what I need online. I keep telling the boys and DIL’s to get here ASAP if they need to.They like their father keep telling me It’s going to get better, stop worrying so much but I’m afraid that it is going to get much worse before it gets better if it ever does. Yeah I’m kind of having a pity party here, sorry about that, I’m so tired of the snow and cold. Want to get out in the dirt and play but on the other hand, I got my Takada settlement check last Friday . As I opened it said to DH “well here’s 50 more cents we didn’t have” but surprise it was almost $75. Went right into my credit union account (aka my prep money).
      Stay safe and God bless us all.

      1. granny o,

         You are not alone. Hope you can feel that here. If you can’t get outside and play in the dirt (woman after my own heart!), maybe planting something inside – even just sprouts, or some greens in a pot – might make you feel a bit better.

         1. Farmgirl,Thank you so much for the encouragement.
            Would love to have plants in the house. Unfortunately I have a new cat who goes nuts for greenery, has even tried to eat my silk flowers. He tried to get the 3 yr old Poinsettia I had. Unfortunately, when I moved it from the window sill in the kitchen to keep it away from him, it died. But the weather is supposed to get better in the coming weeks so I can wait. Was just feeling sorry for myself and having grand baby withdrawal symptoms LOL.

         2. You’re welcome, granny o,

            Everyone needs a ‘you got this’ once in a while.

            Re: the cat –
            You can make a spray with cayenne and water, maybe a tiny smidge of soap (I use molasses ’cause it feeds the bacteria that feed the plants, but that might cancel out the pepper spray effect.) Just a light spray on the leaves should discourage the cat.

            I trained my cats to stay out of my garden beds by keeping a hose with a spray nozzle nearby. Worked very well. They would walk on the path, but not go in the beds. Once, one chased the other into the potato patch. As soon as the ‘chasee’ realized where he was, he quickly looked up at me with a ‘please, don’t!’ look on his face. Very funny. He still got sprayed. Lest you think I’m crazy, I’m not advising the use of a hose inside. Squirt gun, maybe?

3. Ken, everyone should take a look at Rashib Buttar. This thing is mighty big. His view simes to fit the going on’s.

   1. TXDAN, thanks for putting that out to about Dr. Buttar. I have never heard of him, but just looked him up. Very interesting for sure. I watched parts 1 & 2 of his Facebook videos. I will watch the other 2 later today. I agree everyone should definitely check him out before they take them down.

   2. Yep, checked out this video three days ago. Pretty scary but another chain of thought that reinforces the need to get ready for Act 2 just in case.

4. The foundation for this summers ( not the fall) SHTF event has already been cast in stone. Here is the why;
   People are using their credit cards to pay for:
   1. Mortgage payments (apartment rent)
   2. Electrical/water bills
   3. Car payments
   4. Car and home insurance bills
   5. Medical expenses
   6. Food costs
   The credit card payments only buy you 30-45 days of time and then these payments come due but at a 20-24 % interest rate. Cedit card payments were used because folks could not pay their bills in the first place.
   Result: our societies financial collapse. Banks collapse since they are the ones issuing credit cards.
   The only way anyone can survive this collapse is if they know how to live without cash. Cash (or barter) will become the only way to conduct business. Are you prepared for this type of life style change? I am seriously working on a way to live without money or credit.

   1. Texas Boy;
      Here’s one that boggles the Brain.
      I know 3 families that actually pay the CC Bill with another CC….
      AND they make GREAT money, enough to be out of debt…
      Go Figure.

      1. NRP, perhaps they get rewards of some kind?

   2. If I could put everything on a card I would. I bought my truck and they would only let me put $20k on my card. I use the shit out of them, getting thousands of dollars back in rewards and cash. I have more credit cards than fingers and toes.

      It is almost always better to use someone elses money than your own.

      There are plenty of people in over their head, and it isn’t just credit cards. As far as credit card default rates we have been worse than the last recession for almost two years now. Last summer several major cities hit auto loan default rates to match the last recession also.

      Cheap rated have kept us afloat.

      Banks will likely fail. There is too much money to be made for widespread losses worse than last time.

      1. On the credit cards. I had noted my score had dropped 20 points for no apparent reason. McGyver added that his too had dropped 20 points. Today I checked it again and although my credit use is way down with sitting at home my score hit an all time high. Are they trying to tempt me to go into debt?

         1. me:

            I’ve validated my theory. I’ve got three cards with cash-back and one the gives free Marriott nights. All I ever do is cost them money. Six months ago all had dropped my score from 850 to 830’ish. So one month I just distributed my monthly expenses across all cards, let it ferment for a couple of weeks, then paid them all off before interest could accrue; yet after the cash back was posted. Within 45 days all had returned my file to an 850 score. Today, four months later, all have fallen back to 830 again. In every case the bureau details show no negative credits issues.

            I used to pull this crap with AMEX too, but they got wise, and then they got mean; cutting my limit and other petty nastiness. So I cancelled them, after being a member since I was 18. A few years went by and a colleague showed me some deal for an AMEX platinum… if I used his referral code, we would both gets spiffs. Less than a week later I received in the mail, the nastiest, most caustic, corporate invitation to GF myself imaginable. They wanted all kinds of details about how I expected to use the card, full dossier on my financials too. I just laughed and threw it away. In hindsight, I should have kept it. It was simply odious, like the rantings of a spoiled toddler deprived of a pacifier.

         2. tmc
            as I’m sure you know the difference between 850 and 830 on your credit score means nothing. I am up in the same range and once you are past a certain point you are going to get the best deals either way.

         3. Personally I don’t care what my credit score is. I don’t even check. Why? Because I am not going into debt. That’s the best score possible 👍

         4. 👍🏻 Agreed.

         5. Credit scores can make a difference on a lot of other things besides going into debt with loans,credit cards ECT Ken as I am sure you know. renting a home or apartment, some employers check your rating before hiring you and other things. I am a firm believer in NO DEBT except buying a home but use CC all day everyday and earn about 6-700 a year in cash back just on my Amazon card Which since I go through your site to there makes you a couple of buck also LOL. Credit isn’t the problem not being able to control spending is.

         6. Good point, poorman. I don’t even know what my score is anymore. It used to be very good. But I just haven’t used cards & debt in so long. For that reason, it’s probably bad for all I know ;) (They like it when you use debt a lot – sort of perverse).

         7. I have two cards for emergencies, which I may use once every three or four years. I have never had debt.

            As I understand it the credit agencies primarily go by ratio of credit to debt. If you have 10k in credit and no debt, and no history of default or missed payments, your score should be high. If you have 10k in credit and half of it is used (a rolling balance of $5000) your credit rating will be low.

            Closed cards matter because it’s a reduction in your credit. So if you have 10k in credit and you close a 5k card, your available credit has just been cut in half. If you had 5k on the remaining card, your credit score has just dropped into the depths of hell because suddenly you’re using 100% of your available credit.

         8. You should look into it. Play the game to your advantage.

            The biggest thing is your credit score can adversely affect outside of finances are insurance and employability. The difference between a 700 credit score and a 830 credit score might be $30/month/car for auto insurance. Same for medical.

            I hate to say it, but if someone is bad at their own finances how can I assume that they will be any better as an employee at making decisions? Therefore, a poor credit history adversely impacts your ability to find good employment.

         9. Pinky:

            That’s an excellent point; it’s almost like a social credit score now – isn’t it? That’s why I picked up an interest in tweaking their algos; to better map, and ultimately exploit their modeling.

   3. I think it will be a global financial collapse. Just MHO.

      1. DJ5280:

         I think you are exactly correct. And I think we are in the middle of it right now.

         1. Very good point Kula. Also enjoyed your advice on dealing with a-hole neighbors. There is this boisterous, 20-something gamer-tard child next door who sits up all night long with a headset, screaming his bloody stupid head off. Is there something I can spray on that freak, so I can sleep at night? He does leave his effing window wide open… Just wondering. Had to scream at his dumb ass again last night to get him to shut the hell up. Mama is a classic Mexican Patrona and this is her darling little mijo who sits at the right hand of God, as far as she is concerned.

         2. – tmcgyver,
            Ever consider buying one of those cheap dollar-store cs gas canisters, pulling the top off and replacing it with one of those bug-bomb locking spray tops? You can throw one a surprisingly long way, just FWIW. Be sure to wear gloves.
            Not that I would ever do such a thing.
            – Papa S.

         3. Something stinky under his window? My other ideas involve breaking and entering, so probably not. And I think a no-crow collar is out.

         4. Papa Smurf and Lauren –

            I forgot to mention, the all night screaming gamer-tard….. (brace yourselves)… is a rookie in one of the largest Sheriff departments in the world. So the chem-warfare, while satisfying to think about, is probably not a good idea. Means, motive and opportunity point right next door.

            About a year ago I had to tell the whole fam damily to STFU at 0245hrs, on a work night. I was not polite; induced incontinence is likely. Madame Patrona called the cops on me. I pulled the video the next day; it was hilarious; “It’s 3 in the morning ma’am, what do you suppose made him angry?”

            Guess I’ll just continue to loudly denounce the behavior, sufficient that his stupid mother hears me. I have about 50% success rate with loud public shaming of that brainless blob of protoplasm. An air-drive boat horn brings it up to 100%, when necessary. Trouble is, that wakes up half the town.

         5. – Well, there is always the ‘Big Gun’s – use a Have-a-Hart trap, capture a skunk. Cover the trap and all with a tarp, to calm him down. Carry the whole mess next to the boisterous, 20-something gamer-tard child’s window, remove the tarp, trap, and yourself quickly from the vicinity, and let nature take its course. Keep a bottle of Fabuloso from the Dollar Store next to the shower, just in case.
            – Papa

         6. Papa –

            err… can one purchase skunk spray? Real or synthetic; I don’t care. A 50cc feeding syringe ought to get it on target. Plausible deniability is built-in because we have skunks around in the warmer months. You cunning genius; bless you.

         7. – Well, I wouldn’t know, but skunk is a common cover scent for bowhunters and trappers. Might be available on Amazon, through Ken’s link.
            – Papa

         8. Look into Red Fox Urine Spray. It stinks to the high heaven. Trust me I know. Been used by hunters for years for a cover scent. Yes you can buy it easily online and most hunting stores.

            God I hate that stuff.

            A&O

         9. Maybe the fox is hunting the skunk?

   4. Texas Boy, I will be interested to see how the bank lobbies open up because currently they can control how much you take out per day by using ATM cards. The bank is probably not the best place to have your money right now.

      1. DAMedinNY-our lobbies are closed but drive-through is still open. Haven’t gone to the bank in almost 2 months now though, so not sure if there’s a limit with drive-through?

5. Lehman’s advertises that they have all canning supplies.If the thrift stores
   reopen you can usually find some jars.We found a good supply of lids at
   Ace Hardware.Pectin is getting scarce.Does anyone have info or advice on Tattler lids?

   1. Tattler has at least 2-3 week wait for shipping at the moment (due to the state of Michigan being on lockdown). Someone else here posted about Harvest Guard reusable lids. Might want to check those out.

      1. Southern Man,
         Harvest Guard re useables were trialed by a friend….of mine..They were very happy with their performance..Have recommended their use for our family…..
         . another one, sent me some tattlers.(said, were not going to be canning )every one i have that seals i one more jar i can secure.

   2. I bought a bunch of Tattler lids several years ago and after I reused them a couple of times the failure to seal rate went way up. Last week I canned 7 qts of beef stew reusing Tattler lids and 3 failed to seal. They worked fine on initial use but I can’t afford that failure rate and will be going back to metal lids.

      1. Romeo Charlie;
         3/7s failure rate is VERY unacceptable.
         Personally I have never used Tattler lids, have heard to many stories like yours.
         A lot of folks have no problems, but I’m sticking with the good old metal lids.
         Thanks for the report.

      2. Romeo Charlie
         Reason I ordered extra rubber gaskets.
         After using them, I oiled them with a good quality food grade oil, wiped off the excess and put away. As it was a feeling that the gaskets would be the failure on this system.

   3. When using Tatter lids you must tighten them a bit AFTER they come out of the canner. Plus, they really are only good for about a year on the shelf. I don’t mind using them for stuff we go through quickly like stock, jams, or fruit. If I want meats or stews/soups long-term (a few years) I use metal lids only.

      1. DJ5280, thanks for posting your experience with these.

6. NormlChuck
   You must keep them warm, the plastic lids and rubber gaskets. I put mine into a pot of water that I have warmed an keep warm during the canning process. Same as I would do for a metal canning lid.
   Discovered if you put it on a hot jar and it is not warm they will not seal closed. Lost a few jars of jelly that way, as the lids & gaskets had cooled down to far for a proper sealing. I have a lot of those both sizes and ordered the new Harvest brand for a JIC. One can never have to many canning jars an lids…

   1. AC “one can never have too many canning jars and lids”
      Amen sister. Except when you have to pack the suckers! LOL. I had BOXES AND BOXES and used a small tonnage of newspaper. Never the less….they are unpacked and ready to go should we get a decent harvest from our soon to be garden beds, and of course the chickens that quit laying….there is usually around a dozen aging out each year.
      Also, we have found the widemouth jars most excellent as replacement for plastic food containers for leftovers in the fridge.

   2. AC, Pioneer Woman,

      DW and i produce a lot of jelly with Montepulciao grapes out of the vineyard. We normally buy 4oz jars at wally-world, 5-6 cases at a time. Maybe do 10 cases a year. We have good stock of quart canning jars for other things, as well as lids. I am thinking about a ‘work around’ for the jelly side of things, if lids get scarce.

      My German Grandma Rose used to can jelly when i was a kid. She used to pour hot, liquid wax onto the jelly to seal them in the jars. Seemed to work pretty well, just needed to make sure where the wax touched the side of the jar that it was clean of jelly. Have either of you seen this done???? I have done it, but it was a gazillion years ago when i was at that little mining school in Golden. Think this could be a viable ‘work around’ to stretch our lid supply if things get short? thanks.

      1. Minerjim;
         My Grandma always used Wax for Jelly and the like.
         Don’t remember ever seeing a “bad jar”.
         PS: she was of German decent and helped my parents survive the First Great Depression.
         Knowledge is going to be the key to surviving this Greater Depression.

         1. Gulf Wax was always in my mommas pantry. Of course it can’t be used for all foods.

         2. Mrs. U
            Yes, that is the wax.
            Oh, better get it while one can still find it. Not sold that much any more and it took awhile before I located it in this area.

      2. That is the way that I remember it was done back when I was a kid.

      3. With the high percentage of sugar in jelly, it’s not going to go bad unless exposed to air. The wax sits right on top of the jelly, creating a tight seal. I’ve seen it done but never done it myself. I have two jars in the ‘fridge right now with wax seals.

      4. That’s how I learned to make jelly from my Mom. When i got a little older in Jr. High Home Ec classes they were using lids & rings and I thought it was strange.

      5. I read somewhere once that the French ages ago used to cool their jars of jam and jelly upside down to help seal just a normal jar lid. Anyone ever hear of something like that? Can’t remember exactly.

         1. Mom always cooled everything upside down.

         2. I’ve done this but forgot about it. I used all my gulf wax to make fire starters with egg cartons and lint. Back on the list!

         3. DJ, we always did everything upside down- except the jars we waxed. The heat intensified.. and they always sealed quickly… Both of my sets of Gpands Grew up , and raised large families…during depression era. One Grandmother canned 1000-1400 jars Every year.
            Do an exercise…figure how many times you have, and the size container(amount needed for each meal) string beans, sweet peas, mixed vegetables,sweet corn and tomatoes(all forms)…. over the course of 2 weeks. Double that and multiply x 12. Should give yearly need @ present rate of consumption… I did it this past week For string beans and Diced tomatoes.It was a wake up call.
            That included everything except… the staples they could not/did not grow themselves..Flour, sugar, tea, coffee, salt,black pepper, yeast, baking soda…..and Chore Girl copper scrubbers,,.Each one bartered with the neighborhood grocery store for part of needs… many times with eggs,butter, buttermilk, .. Each fall after they got paid for crops they purchased 2-3 big wooden barrels of flour..They raised their own dent corn, and ground it for cornmeal.

         4. Just Sayin
            Can you imagine how long it took to can 1400 jars!
            Thats some labor

      6. Minerjim
         ROWL,,, I have this wax in stock for a jic. Dang!! Now I will have to add more of this to my additional ‘GOTTA HAVE’ list. (head is shaking with laughter)
         I remember my mom doing it on her jelly that she made for the household growing up. It would be a good half to 3/4 of inch thick on the top of the jars. She would save the wax, clean it for using it again and again.

         You all are turning me into a canning jar/lid–seed–canning wax–tp/food storage acholic. That does not even begin with all the handy dandy tools I have had to acquire. Think of Rosie the Riveter with tool belts and kitchen appliances..gheez no wonder I am so short…lol

         1. LOL AC

      7. Minerjim, I used the hot wax to seal my honey in canning jars. I did not want it to harden. I melted he white wax and poured it into the warm jars with honey in about a quarter inch layer. Seems to work well.

      8. Minerjim, I have done paraffin lids on jelly.It’s the way my Mom was taught by her Mom and the way i learned to secure Jelly.
         Main thing to make a good seal…skim it very well…get all the bubbles… and make sure the inner neck of jar is very clean, of course sterilize the jars have them hot. Fill them in a place you can let them sit without any disturbance. ….ie,no moving them until they are set up well. we did a paraffin plug the depth of the neck. Yes when that was removed it was saved , washed and reused. Mom always kept 3-4 pounds of Gulf Wax on hand… It can also be used for other things, like waxing a thread/string you need to be water proof..stiffening the end of a shoelace that has become frayed./damaged…

7. A timely post. Now is the time not later. I am looking at different areas in my preps that I need to expand not just upgrade.

   In this vein I am looking to raise some goats along with chickens. I would rather have cows but my land is not suited to them. I do have lots and lots of brush and trees that could be fenced in. Anyone have a recommendation for a gentle duel use breed ( milk and meat) that tolerates hot humid weather?

   1. Deep South,

      Check out Nigerian Dwarf goats. They are common in my area. Great ratio of milk returned for feed input. Docile, not jumpers (squeezers). Can use the wethers for meat. They are mid-sized, not tiny, not large. I raised them for a while, and they were a delight. Not sure about their weather tolerance, but you can look that up.

      1. Farmgirl,

         Thanks I’ll look into them!

   2. Deep South, I would check into a hardy breed like a KIko. Many goats seem to need a lot of extra help birthing and with supplements, but not Kikos. I love the disposition and looks of our boer goats, and we are raising our group to be hardy. We will continue to breed the ones that are able to drop the kids on their own and are “easy keepers”.

8. Regarding the above comments on debt. I do believe that debt is slavery, slavery to whomever you owe the money to. Getting out of debt can be a painful and sometimes long process . Paying a bill with a credit card is only moving the payment date a few weeks ahead at best.Paying minimum amounts on credit cards creates a huge interest burden for the card holder.Our economy is based on people spending money and being in debt.
   I feel there is a small window right now to obtain additional supplies. The way things look nationaly there will be much more severe food shortages in the future. Food is not the only thing that will be in short supply. There will be shortages across the board on all things.
   Being debt free is very important ,especially at this time. I feel it is crucial.

   1. Bluesman, Amen…get out of debt and stay out of debt.

   2. No to start a fight but paying a bill with a credit card the paying off the card with no interest is a way to EARN money. You said paying it with a card is just moving it a few weeks but isn’t the fact that you use electric , gas , rent , phone , car insurance ( pick your poison) and then they send you a bill the same thing?

      You sound like a Dave Ramsey fan and I agree with almost everything he says so not faulting you. Putting all your recurring bills on auto pay means you only pay ONE bill a month which for me is a time saver. Credit cards are a form of payment just like cash debit checks or the change you find in your pocket. IMHO not using them to make money back is leaving it on the table

9. I know there is a lot about canning and freezing in the comment board but do not discount dehydration as a 3rd method for food preservation.

   4th method… Me and the wife are learning about cheese making, and meat curing as we speak these are lower resource dependent food preservation methods. We are just starting to experiment with these food preservation methods. look at all the milk farmers were dumping in FL… What a waste could made a lot of cheese & butter with it.

   Concerning Dehydration you can use one of Ken’s recommended fancy gadgets from amazon yes we have one too. But I am also working on a solar dehydrator…

   Gonna use it for Gator Jerky…. mmmmm jerkyyyyyyyy……..

   1. I have 3 small dehydrators and have asked for a solar one,… just has not gotten done…yet..
      The thing i like about dehydration, it intensifies the flavors, pack with an oxygen absorber-‘ still stores in as little as 1/2 space normally would be required.. so that a pint of string beans rehydrated =a quart… Meats requires 3 lb to = 1 lb of jerky, but conversely rehydrated 1 lb of jerky will expand to serve like 3lbs of meat…. If eating dry must have penty of water. I still am playing with rhydrating some things.. if n doubt cover with warm water and allow for at least an hour… some things take 35 min and some take 1hour and 15 min…..depends on thickness and density of product. Squash are awesome dehydrated… even with oxygen and moisture absorbers have not held a long time…about 6 month.s….

      1. Just Sayin’,

         I’ve been doing more and more dehydration the last several years. It does take up a lot less space! I dehydrate things that I add to soups, stews and other dishes – onions, peppers, leeks, zucchini, frenched green beans, apples and lots of other things. I’ve never actually rehydrated anything. I just toss a handful in the soup, chili, or what have you, and it rehydrates with the cooking liquid. I use the green beans in mac and cheese, adding them to the boiling pasta. So easy!

         1. Farmgirl
            I do the same thing. I have tried to re hydrate things like green beans to just use as a side dish with IMHO poor results

10. Some thoughts before I go out to the greenhouse again to keep potting-up starts:

    I have to throw in with Texas Boy here and say I don’t think we have much time before the already loose threads start unraveling in earnest. My spidey sense is on fire today. I know it won’t necessarily be the same everywhere all at once, but I think the tidal wave has arrived and we’re at the moment before the beautiful concave of the water comes crashing down.

    I am not a doomer by nature. In fact, I tend toward the more hopeful side, even as I take in lots of scary info. The amount of news flow around food that is now in the MSM has got to be freaking some people out. Even those with cash will realize how useless cash will become, and seek to quickly convert that to hard assets.

    If you need it, and have the cash, get it asap. Locally and in person, if you can. If you don’t have the cash, think about plan B, C, and D. Live out your life for the next year, in your head, and notice what you use. Propane, firewood, food preservation stuff, chimney cleaning, equipment maintenance parts and fluids, etc… I have the ingredients for all the birthday cakes, and the candles, because celebrating is good, and I don’t plan to give that up.

    Good neighbors are a treasure beyond gold. Be one. Barter already happens a lot in my neck of the woods, as some of us are fairly cash poor, and it’s actually a great way to get to know your neighbors better, and promotes more community solidarity.

    Are none of the congress critters in D.C.? Hmmm….wonder why?

    My apologies if this seems at all condescending to anyone. I know most of you on here are probably much savvyer than I am about these things. Sometimes though, just seeing one more person say ‘get going’ gives some much needed steam – it does for me.

    May the wind be ever at your back!

    1. Farmgirl;
       Great comment. but please do a favor….
       No need to apology for saying what you think and believe. You are in no way condescending to anyone.
       I know for me at least it’s always good to see things through fresh eyes.

       PS; “get going”….. figured I’d give us all just a little more push, like that wind at your back.

       1. Wind at my back… Reminds me I need to make/store some more chili :-)

    2. Farm girl,
       Looks like you got your head on straight. Keep going and don’t worry about being condescending. If folks are that weak they better toughen up. This is nothing compared to how it could be. It will basically become a pass/fail situation.
       Pass you live…
       Fail you die…
       Or wish you were…

11. NRP & Blue,

    Sorry, it’s a habit. (HaHa – see what I did there?)

    I’m taking a break and heading over to the Amish store to see if they have more lids. I got a few cases of Tattlers and Harvest Guard, but don’t want to put my faith in them after reading all the comments. It’s a beautiful day to be alive.

    1. Farmgirl, last week I pressure canned beets, potatoes, and cabbage using Tattler lids and seals that have been used at least twice before. I canned 21 quarts and 14 pints and had no failures using Tatter lids. With the Tattler lids, you tighten them differently than you do a metal lid. Also, you don’t fill it quite as full. The older Tattler lids asked you to tighten. The ring after removing the jar from the canner. I believe the new easy seal lids have different instructions. I always heat (hot water, not boiling water) my gaskets and lids before placing on top of the cleaned jars.

       That said!i also keep a supply of metal lids too, but I prefer using these to O2 seal herbs and spices.

       I did not realize the Tattler lid should only be used for one year. I have opened jars that were sealed more than two years ago our a regular basis, and a couple that were 4 years old that were fine. I have a tendency to can a lot of one particular product every other year so I don’t have to do everything every year.

       1. DAMedinNY,

          Thanks for the info on the Tattlers. I’d heard they were handled differently than the metal lids, but haven’t tried them yet. I can some things in pretty large batches, too. Strawberry jam, apples sauce, tomato sauce and salsa are some that I will often do every other year. Such a relief not to have as much to do in the ‘off’ years!

          1. Farmgirl, yes! And sometimes we have a bountiful crop and other times…not so much. But it does reduce the work load to over can and have extra for another time.

       2. I just checked my jars in the cellar to check age of oldest jars. I have sealed jars or pork tenderloin from 2014. When I was first canning with these, I left a couple jars to test throughout a time frame. The meat still looks appetizing and the seal is solid.

          1. DAMedinNY,

             Maybe let a friend know, when you’re going to eat one of those? LOL I’ve got some raspberry jam from 2011 that I found recently. Homemade poptarts?

12. Hey all,
    Glad to see folks are thinking ahead. Definitely prudent to be sure. I suggest folks order in extra parts now for essential equipment. Small gas engines are notorious for having carbuerator issues. Either rebuild kits or a spare carburetor. Pull starter rope,springs or another pull starter assembly. I keep starter capacitors for our freezers and refrigerators. I have replaced them on our freezers when they went out. About$12(or were) for new one.
    Some of you folks live in some harsh winter locations. I would have a worse case scenario plan. Like a broken furnace that you cant get repaired. Long term power outages. How will you stay warm?maybe move into one room blocked off to stay warm?
    We are buying socks,shirts,clothes,boots whenever we can. I expect shortages there as well. Buy extra blankets now before winter.
    Ordered lumber,plywood to get delivered. Bringing in paint,roof sealer,other possibly hard items to procure.
    Every body has different needs. Making a wish/shopping list now would be a good idea.
    The wife is already planning for small Christmas gifts. She really wants to keep the grandkids from being too scared over this.
    Btw, our family is out of isolation. The daughter is doing better now that she gets to go to our school. They are very happy that they are here. The wife is teaching at the school too.
    Husband is in security rotation and food growing.
    One other thing.
    We have had some issues with seed viability. We had whole packets of cilantro,okra,celery WITH ZERO VIABILITY. Not one seed came up. Another packet of the same with 70-90% viability . Same exact growing media. Weird and concerning at the same time. So trying to get same seeds from a couple different suppliers.
    Might be a good idea to keep records too.
    Prayers for our Republic and the good folks out there.
    Do your best…
    Father will do the rest…

    1. What supplier? How old were they? I just opened a can of Auguson just in case seeds that had a best by date of 2019. We’ll see how good they are a year past.

       1. Me,
          Packaged for 2020. The cilantro was Stover. I also have watermelon and cantaloupe from Stover. Both 70-80% viability.
          The celery is Ferry Morse. My radishes and Daikon are Ferry Morse. Growing like crazy!
          The Okra is Burpee. I have yard long beans and eggplant that are doing good from Burpee.
          That’s why I said it was weird. I have cilantro from Stover that came up quick from another pack. I planted it 2 weeks after the first batch.
          Never had 0 seedlings from a whole pack before.
          That’s why I mentioned it.
          Also had Lima beans rot in the starter pots. Not one came up. Replanting from a different supplier’s seeds.
          Threw some store bought kidney beans in a small mulch pile. The plants are almost a foot long already.
          Craziness…

          1. BJH
             Go to the garden store, or order and have it delivered to the place. You need a PH meter for your soil, something is way off for you to have such a major failure of seedlings.

             The soil the kidney beans are growing in is ‘happy soil’.

             Are you using bagged soils or is it a mixture of your dirt, garden soil, and cow manure from an outside source?

          2. IF in doubt soak them in buttermilk before planting.

             Not sure how long on the soaking part, baby sister did not give me that information. She did find it on line, in case you want to check it out for yourself.

    2. BJH

       Good point on the seeds. Had the same issue with some Ferry Morse this year, green peppers were a total dud, 100% didn’t take. Actually just ordered a bunch from “Annie’s Heirloom Seeds” not sure if anyone has had any experience ordering from them. One of the only online sites I could find that still had a large variety of heirlooms. At least around here it’s tough to find heirlooms in the Wally Worlds and other big box stores, almost exclusively hybrids.

    3. BJH, three years back, I had that problem with some pole beans I special ordered…not w one came up from one packet,, another packet gave me two or three plants that did nothing. The third packet I started in wet paper towels and got nothing. It these were all planted outside. I changed to a different pole bean and things were fine. I wonder if it is something that happens in their processing cycle to dry the seeds.

       The worrisome part is, we have a very short growing season so not a lot of time to fix these types of issues. We need a backup plan of what to grow quickly when veggies don’t come up.

    4. The most likely problem with the seeds is that they were picked too young. Next most likely is that they were processed wrong. Since it’s the whole packet, it’s a problem with handling or processing and not the type of seeds or the supplier. Even if a whole batch of seeds somehow died, some of them would come up. 0 germination is very rare, naturally.

       With tiny seeds it is very difficult to verify viability visually, so it may have been missed. Some things naturally have a low viability rate, I’m not sure if these count. It is probably NOT a problem with your soil. Even if it was a problem with your soil, some would have been in “good” soil and you could verify by which came up where the problem was.

       I can often visually identify in larger seeds which are viable. I suppose you could tell under a microscope for the tiny seeds.

       1. Hi all!!
          Thanks for responding about my seed failures.
          AC, I did check the ph. It’s good. We used new bagged media with perlite. We potted up over 1500 seeds. Most varieties we are getting at least70-90% germination. Not having any of the lima beans germinate was concerning. They were mush in the soil. Have since started another 25 just a few days ago. They are already pushing soil up and expect to see them pop through in a few days.
          Lauren, I figured something probably happened when they were packaged. As DAMedin NY brought up, have to plan for it and plant something else. At the end of the day, it put us behind by a couple weeks for that crop. That can make a big difference in productivity and harvest.
          Ken’s right about growing corn and potatoes. Lot of calories to be had there.
          Rb308, having a good supply of viable heirloom seeds will be like gold and silver in the safe. If this goes on for a long period of time, seeds and food will be the new currency. Can’t eat PM’s or that digital bank balance on a computer screen…

    5. Second the clothing stock-up. I thought I had prepared pretty well before this hit. Didn’t think about seasons changing though and kid’s outgrowing their old summer clothes. We’re going to have to start making shorts out of jeans soon! I need to think ahead to this fall/winter and start getting things purchased and tucked away.

13. Just a quick note: In the past whenever I read the Book of Revelations in my bible, I would wonder at how on earth we could ever have famine in the ‘last days.’
    Well……..look around at us at what is happening, what is coming.

    But, God is still on His throne. I don’t worry so much. Plan. Prepare. But I do not fear.

    1. I like what you said: “Plan. Prepare. But I do not fear.”

       Perfect.

14. I think if the GOV’t really wants to put a hand out to the American people they are going to have to force the banks/mortgage companies to go zero (0) interest for the rest of the year. We all know you pay double the selling price on a 30 year mortgage so the banks really not losing anything and the CEOS make mIllions. A $300k house with 20% down has a payment around $1,400 with escrow and a low percentage. Take away all that interest and that principal payment is like $400 or less. With unemployment maxing at $1,800 per person (In CA …I know), how can one afford to spend all their money on a house payment? For those with jobs, they can create a small nest egg, pay off other debts, save, pay down their house more, invest (economic stimuli). Those without jobs, will be able to live sheltered, keep their homes, find jobs, be less of a “drain” on the system. Landlords would be forced to pass the saving on to tenants or they would be fined their profits. Just one mans thought.

    1. Being debt free is so, so very important in my estimation. One should always be working towards it. Even if it seem futile. It can be done. And when that burden is lifted, it’s a feeling like no other. You can survive with much less income, for example.

       1. 10% interest, 1% cash back. It doesn’t add up.

          If your debt is 10% of your gross, and there’s 10% interest on that debt, that’s 11% of your income that you can’t use.

          I wish our congress-critters would do the math…

       2. Ken I totally agree. We worked hard to get there. We just have a house payment now. But the idea was, the banks can write off that loss, which in the end is a lot to you and I but nothing to them. But just handing out $1200, $2400, $2900, $3400 checks only increases the National Debt. Remember in the Great Depression bankers put in millions to bump the Stock Market out of the funk and it failed. They need to do something similar but with better results. Bet on the American Family/Worker for once and not be so greedy. Otherwise, you can count on a housing market bubble from the millions of unemployed and self employed who don’t qualify for unemployment. Dont forget the uncollected debts of failed business.

15. I’m thinking of buying another freezer. Wife cans fig preserves every summer. We have a lot. We may try canning meat this year. Our pinto beans are growing but I too have problem with okra. My peppers are good. Tomatoes not so good. My wife says we are in a solar minimum. It could last for years and effect weather.

    I think the corona virus will be with us for some time. I pray we can find a way to deal with it. People have to get back to work or it will get really bad. I am thinking more people will get sick and die because they have to work. As the government tries to provide financial assistance we may have to deal with hipper inflation during the second wave. I think it is best to buy what you can now.

16. Would anyone give suggestions on what to try to stock up on? flour, cornmeal ,pasta ? Thanks in advance

    1. Nana246,

       I’d agree definitely focus on stuff with a longer shelf life that you actually eat whether it’s canned tomatoes, tuna, vegetables, etc. For long term SHTF storage we do beans and white rice. They get sealed in Mylar bags and then sealed in Food grade 5gallon pales. These should last easily for 15+years. Obviously not something youwould have to rotate out nearly as often.

       No shame when I first started prepping I’d buy whatever canned goods I could get my hands on. Ultimately the majority of it ended up going weeeell past expiration date and I ended up tossing. I learned after that prep what you eat and be sure to rotate food stores as not to waste. Good luck!

    2. nana246,
       Yes, grains had poor harvest last year. part was not harvested, land is not ready to plant yet. too wet and cold. Meat packing plants not operational at full capacity… animals eggs, chickens and milk and beef cattle all have been destroyed in some areas.. unable to get to market. and unable to feed.Farmers pressured.. to no longer produce because of x,y, z….and are between a rock and a hard place.squeezed. survive or keep the animals.
       If you eat it,now, or will eat it sporadically, buy and store. freeze all dry goods from 5-10 days/or pack oxygen free. as much variety as you can. most people say rice and beans.. stretcher foods…foods you can use a lot of different ways..
       If your family can eat them good place. to start… flour and oils- healthy oils olive, coconut,sunflower, avocado, grape seed oils, real butter.
       If your family likes and can eat nuts, peanut butter,dried fruits, also the seasonings and side things to make recipes with… baking powder, baking soda, cocoa powder, sugar, salt, spices., mustard.onion and garlic powders…vanilla…… hot sauce, ketchup, bbq sausce( don’t go wild on these, but an extra bottle
       Oils,Grains and meats first…It takes grain to grow meat-usually.
       As veggies become available from farmers markets.. figure your familys needs and try to get them all stored securely in jars, if possible.

       I began by compartmentalizing my food/meals. Our diets are prescribed heavy protein… this is how i did it…using grocery store items…..If you have room to grow anything… a flower pot can be used to grow greens or radish/etc
       I began with figuring the amount of milk, eggs, flour, cereal we needed for a month. First purchase was 3 -42 oz oatmeal, 10 lbs of flour, 36 oz olive oil, 32 oz coconut oil, 2 lbs butter, 12 dz eggs,.2 gal. milk., 5 lb bacon, 2 lb sausage., coffee 4 bricks..3 loafs bread… Some Possible menu’s…. gravy ,biscuit,eggs… oatmeal and bacon, oatmeal and sausage , eggs and oatmeal.w/toast or not.(35-50 days for 2 people.)
       …. (4 varied menus)- can also use grits or cream of wheat same way…
       when we used half of this i repurchased the same list again…with anything else i had thought of… like stuff to serve pancakes or waffles., or french toast(.cinnamon, syrup etc.)

       …. 2 weeks later i got :16 lbs assorted pasta, 12 lbs ground beef,(15 +meals) 8 spaghetti sauce.12 cans diced tomato and 6-corn.,10 -10 oz cans chicken, 10 cans tuna,20 cans string beans , 10-sweetpeas, 6 lbs frozen assorted vegetables.2 lb cheese, 6 lgcans peaches.5 lb cornmeal,5 lb rice, 10 lbs flour, 2 lg high vitamin c drink powders. 48 oz sunflower oil
       family pack pork chops x 3(10 meals) 40 meals-w/meat.

17. They can have the ashes

18. nana246:

    Better late than never, right? My best advice to you, drilled into my head by my wife, is buy what you normally eat! I too initially went the route of staple goods. And that’s fine… except I’m a really low-skill cook. Given the choice between my bumbling kitchen experiments, or a tin can of something yummy; I’m going for yummy, every time. This is especially true in times of enhanced stress; like right now.

    Buy what you eat and eat what you buy. – Oh Gawd, I cannot believe I’m quoting her; but she’s correct.

    1. Thanks everyone for the advise, I will make a list of what we are eating now , then start with the longer term stuff, also im going to do a garden this year to have some fresh stuff hopefully

       1. Make sure to store items you buy that are not already in cans etc in totes or something that mice can’t get into. I learned the hard way. They get into boxes, foil packages etc. Also on expiration dates. As long as the top of the can isn’t popped it is ok to eat. It may not have the fresh taste or provide the same nutrients but it is editble.

19. I highly doubt that true “National Guardsmen”, Police”, or any other “governmental authority” will be going homestead to apartment confiscating food and supplies. Small return for effort expended.

    Individual groups and gangs, out to fill their bellies short term, might employ the tactic of representing themselves as authorities. This happens in good times, I expect the tactic to become common in bad times.

    Whichever, I’m a veteran of both military and law enforcement. No doubt in my mind how I will/would deal with anyone claiming they were representing the government and were under orders to confiscate my family’s food and sustenance.

    Not saying it ain’t impossible that scenario occurring. I just don’t see it happening myself. Whether it’s your neighbor, a local band of ne’r do wells, ex-cons, or folks saying they are government representatives, theft is theft. There ain’t no such thing as “justifiable thievery”………there is such a thing as “justifiable homicide”.

    Said before that I would not kill for property. I stand by that. Forcible entry into my occupied home means they are willing to hurt my family. I will take appropriate action.

    1. Dennis

       I am not sure any of us could know the real answer to this however I do like your response.

       Lets face it, nobody alive in America today has ever faced real, authentic, famine style hunger and the accompanied psychological desperation associated therein unless they were born in another country.

       I certainly don’t know how Police, Fire, Natl Guard, Military would respond given a real world famine. I would hope they would play nice but the truth is, we really don’t know, I know I sure don’t know, but I am not taking any chances.

       We are 9 meals away from anarchy.

20. We went the grocery outlet today. We haven’t been in a grocery store for over a month. I wanted to replace what we have used and add a little more. I was pleasantly surprised that it was very well stocked. A good friend whose husband has always thought prepared people were nuts called to tell me he ordered a freezer. It was very small but it’s a start! She said the prices were high and they have to wait until next week to pick it up. I am going to continue to add to my pantry as long as it’s available.

    I also am thanking the good Lord that we are debt free. Not an easy feat, but the security that it gives is indescribable. Praying all of you are working towards that direction. It’s tough getting it paid off, and you will not find it fun, but it’s so worth it.

    Our WA governor is not making any sense. We can go out in our boats, we may not fish while on the boat. Yeah, it’s dumb.

    1. – Miss I Made It Myself,
       “I am going to continue to add to my pantry as long as it’s available.” Exactly So!
       – Papa S.

21. Any suggestions for how and where to caching supplies?

    1. Found a great video on you tube last night about buying heavy duty, plastic Septic tanks. different sizes, perfect for burying caches… Wish I had a backhoe :-)

       DT

       1. DT,
          Problem with plastic septic tanks is in normal use they have to be backfilled with water before burial, otherwise they can collapse. I would consider screw top 55 gal drums first, and space them out, not have all ” your eggs in one basket” so to speak.

       2. Great point, didn’t think about that. Thanks!

          DT

22. In my opinion, there will most definitely be civil unrest and violence. And I predict it will start on November 4th, no matter the result. If and it’s a big if, we get our civil liberties back, they will be clamping down harder, especially if the left comes to power. I believe we are in the last gasp and it’s going to get very bad before it gets any better. God help us all.

23. 11HE9
    How far will a 60ml syringe shoot that fox spray out? Just wondering…since we don’t want a certain party getting in to trouble.
    Better send that certain party an extra set of latex gloves.

24. I called over to my neighbor this afternoon to see how they were doing. She is on oxygen and her hubby does all the shopping. He also works for FEMA son scansion gets sent elsewhere. I asked if they were doing OK and did she need anything? I also mentioned that I go into town on Wednesday to do shopping and ge things for a couple other people, so I didn’t mind picking up anything she hasn’t been able to find.

    She said they were doing well but she was rearranging her cabinets because she needed to store more food. I said that is a good problem to have. She said she was regretting getting rid of their extra freezer as that limited her. Her husband told her that they needed to store more canned goods as he felt there was going to be a food shortage.

    I generally don’t get into much with these newer neighbors (been living here two years) as they appear to be very liberal, but they are neighbors and they are very friendly, I was shocked that they were storing food…did not expect that to say the least. I told her that it sounds like he is probably right and it would not hurt to have a extra on hand. She was concerned that her freezer was gone and they could not get another one now. Hmmmmmm. Reinforces my gut instincts.

    1. DAMedinNY — if folks like this are getting worried, it is time to get worried

25. Hello everybody. I do hope you are well.

    Now, you might want to call me a cynical old fart, after all, there is nothing I can do to stop you. But I’m sat sitting here casting a rather jaundiced eye on the proceedings. At 69 (and a quarter) having survived 4 heart attacks and a triple bypass, I feel rather vulnerable, but I have plenty of TP.

    I do not watch television and I was surprised to find, via the web, so many countries had enacted population control legislation in the wake of this Covid-19 outbreak. Normally this takes a long time to write, but almost overnight, THERE IT WAS. Almost like it was sitting on the shelf, just waiting to be implemented.

    Now, this is where people can switch off and say “Conspiracy Theorist” aka Nutjob and can be ignored.
    But, think on.

    In recent years what have we had? Globalisation. SARS. Swine Flu. Ebola (Gates was involved with that too. Funny that.). They didn’t catch. And now Covid-19.

    Finally, They’ve struck GOLD!

    Imagine, some party sets a virus free in a heavily populated area, not far from a viral research laboratory in China. The MSM then tell us that China lied, hid the outbreak etc. What if they were trying to determine if the viral outbreak was due to a leak from their resaearch labs?

    Meanwhile, Wun Hung Lo goes to Beijing International Airport to cough and sneeze over outgoing travellers.

    Some commenter here (WA) said they could go out on their boat but couldn’t fish? WTF?

    Here in the UK, some police authorities have been sending their officers into supermarkets to prevent people buying “Non-Essential” supplies.
    I have to say, that I trust the utterances of the opportunist parasites, sorry our “Leaders” (and “philanthropist” Bill Gates) as far as I can throw the Atlantic Ocean.

    To be honest, when I see them, all I can think about is a red hot poker, rear passage and cauterized eye balls.

    In a world without boundaries, who needs Gates or Windows

    1. Arfurmo
       You may well be on to something

26. Hi Ken

    I hear you on the rant. Mayors allowing unmasked mobs to burn and loot their cities are arresting folks on beach and at parks. The worst of disgusting hypocrisy.

    However, following is presented for your consideration:

    This study shows the efficacy of properly wearing N95 masks to reduce the wearer’s risk of infection:

    ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/
    articles/PMC5906272/

    Today I asked a former colleague who’s in the thick of all this about masks and transmission. Here’s what they had to say.

    Asked about mode of transmission – aerosolization (encased in moisture) vs airborne (naked viral particles in the air). They clarified droplet rather than aerosol or viral particle.

    “Droplet contamination which is different from fine mist aerosols; and, much more contagious!”

    And added “a cough can expel droplets at 200 mph with detection 15 ft from source. Singing, yelling, talking loudly/forcefully can spread this virus readily. Much data showing masks reduce transmission risk. You could not pay me to sit in a restaurant, attend a rally/protest, congregate in a setting with singing (church), etc…”

    So, while viral particles are extremely small, in this case their droplet mode of transmission is much, much larger, albeit still microscopic. That’s why wearing masks of cloth and surgical masks, as well as N95s are helpful. They contain almost all larger droplets and exponentially slow the rest of the expelled droplets.

    I asked whether an infected person wearing N95 with the built-in microventilator could release droplets via that ventilator spot? [The study above addresses that these vents have protection which reduces likelihood of transmission to the wearer.] Answer was “Yep.” And “There are several studies which should be published soon; will send when the e-print release shows up.” When I see these will pass them on.

    There have been several articles on how a light exposure tends toward a light infection and a heavy exposure a heavy infection. This is why health care workers are at high risk.

    My friend says “An infected person should be isolated from interaction with others.”

    However, asymptomatic transmission is a factor with this virus. Again, from my friend “most individuals breathe harder when wearing an N95 mask. If you have to interact – social distance at 6 feet or greater; have less than 15 minute interaction.”

    I mentioned an article where Dr Fauci indicated this was a very complex and scary virus.

    “Fauci added that there is still a world of uncertainty around the virus and how it spreads and impacts the body. He said COVID-19 is much more complex that HIV, a virus he spent his career studying, because of the varying levels of seriousness in infections — from asymptomatic carriers to patients who develop fatal conditions.”

    foxnews.com/us/fauci-nightmare-coronavirus-is-far-from-over

    My friend responded “it is the most contagious virus we have ever encountered; complexity of infection beyond anything we have witnessed in modern times.”

    So around other folks inside a store I always wear a mask to reduce possibility of transmission in any direction. I don’t “gather” with others anywhere else and keep my distance when chatting with friends outside. No hugs or handshakes for now. Am a prepper; very strongly believe in the ounce of prevention.

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