Security & Situational Awareness (Level 2 Preparedness)

My hypothetical for level 2 preparedness is being prepared for 1 month of disruption. That includes electrical grid down for 2 to 4 weeks.

Your personal safety and security becomes a increasing concern as time marches on during the event. The longer the duration the higher the risk in this regard.

Certainly this risk will be dramatically higher in some regions versus others due to demographics. However as the event continues past week #2, the ability for unprepared people to cope will result in difficult (and very difficult) times if they are unable to get help. And those difficulties could affect your safety and security.

Note: This subject may or may not be relevant for level 2 preparedness. However when we get to level 3 it most definitely will be relevant.

 

HOW PEOPLE REACT

People react and deal with hardships similarly and differently. Throughout my life, my career, and my interactions with others, I have dealt with LOTS of different types of people. I am no longer surprised to discover that someone turns out to be quite different from first impressions.

There are some really great people out there. AND there are some really wacky people out there. Some of them are obvious and many of them not so obvious. I’ve learned to treat others (especially initially) with a healthy bit of skepticism (as to what I might believe are their characteristic traits), especially if and until I get to know them better.

Why am I saying all this? Because during a time of stress and hardship (grid down for 2 to 4 weeks) you may be encountering your own neighbors (near and maybe further away), some of whom may present a threat to your own personal safety & security.

In my opinion there’s no need to go off the deep end here in level 2, however you will benefit from a keen sense of situational awareness during this period.

 

Security Issues That May Arise

So, what should you look out for? The duration of this hypothetical event is “only” 2 to 4 weeks, but that time frame certainly cuts into the probability that most of your neighbors will not have adequate solutions to their problems. And that may likely affect you.

RUNNING OUT OF FOOD

Most people will have enough food to get through a short disruption. And some might be able to scrounge up enough to last a week or two (although on average many don’t have that much in the house according to the many reports I’ve read over the years).

But when you start getting into week #3, #4, even those who thought they had a deep pantry will discover they’re running out or have run out of food completely. Then what?

Well ordinarily during local or regional disruptions you could just get in your car and drive out of the region to get / buy what you need (although a pain in the ar$$).

This hypothetical though, we’re saying that you can’t drive out (because that’s too easy).

When people get hungry enough, they will become highly motivated to find food. Most people living in modern society have never experienced real hunger. You probably haven’t either.

Although I have been quite hungry from time to time, I have not experienced what it’s like to go without food for days on end (thankfully). That said, I do know (and I’m sure you do too) what it feels like to miss a number of meals in a row and how it catches up with you (motivation to get some food to eat!). Now multiply that times 2, 3, 5, etc… imagine the motivation? It will become your priority!

People will turn to their neighbors looking for food. How will you handle that as a prepared person who has plenty of food? Or better stated, “How SHOULD you handle that situation to minimize threat to your personal or household security?”

Since this event will be over within 4 weeks (although I didn’t specify whether or not you know this), do you set aside some ‘staple’ foods for your neighbors who may come knocking? Do your neighbors already know that you are well stocked? If they don’t, do you pretend like you don’t have any food either? “Food for thought”…

 

THEFT

During most any disaster you hear about theft. People looting stores. People stealing from others.

Some people have an easier time than others with stealing. Some people are just “bad” people. Others may steal only when they get desperate enough (thresholds to their ethical trip wires).

Point is, depending on where you live and who lives among you, there may be a threat.

Maybe someone wants your generator or your gas cans or your propane tank.

 

SITUATIONAL AWARENESS

We’re not talking about gangs of marauders in level 2 preparedness (although quite possible within urban inner city regions well know for their bad elements). However we are talking about people getting pretty desperate after several weeks of grid down coupled with little or no external help or aid.

This will affect you. So plan a strategy to deal with it.

I personally prefer to prevent a confrontation situation. I am fortunate to have good neighbors and would help them in a heart beat. They are the type who would return the favor. But not everyone has good neighbors. And what about neighbors who are “way down the road” so to speak, people who you really don’t know… what about them if they come knocking?

Think about it…

 
( MSB Articles on Situational Awareness )

 


LEVEL 1 – 4
Preparedness Level 1 – 4 OVERVIEW
 
LEVEL 1
Preparedness Level 1 OVERVIEW
Water & Food
72 Hour Kit
Kids & Pets
First Aid & Medical
Cash
Seasonal Considerations
Safety & Security
Consumable Supplies
Gear
Planning & Documentation
 
LEVEL 2
Preparedness Level 2 OVERVIEW
Water Storage & Availability
Water & Food
Electrical Grid Down For 2 – 4 Weeks

Similar Posts

162 Comments

  1. I sure as hell hope we don’t have some idiot say “Backhoe and a Bag of Lime”……..

    Good food for thought Ken, My concern is we don’t know how long this SHTF will last, do you have enough food/water for 6 months for all the neighbors? Feed a cat once and you’ll never get rid of them, just think a Husband with 3 starving kids and a wife yelling at him, what would you do? AND yes 2-4 weeks, people will starve.

    1. PS;
      I hear a lot of talk about the Lone Wolf not surviving, and one MUST have a group. Problem is with a Group is, how many neighbors has each one in that ‘group’ invited to the “Store”?
      OPSEC is important to this article, As Ken mentioned, how many of your friends and neighbors know you have “Stuff”. How many in your group know how deep YOUR Deep Pantry is, how Deep is theirs?
      Can you protect this ‘store’ for 2-4 weeks? And how? Shooting the neighbor, or telling that mother of 4 she can have no food for her starving/crying kids?
      Can you imagine the ramifications, after TSHTF is over, and its 3 months later, and the neighbors remember you not giving them food/water?
      Or when the LEO show up after you shoot someone knocking on the door or stealing food?
      Will be interesting to see what Rambo, Macho, Survivalist with 100,000 rounds of ammo and 50 guns (aka Backhoe and Bag of Lime guy) has to say……

      1. Let’s all remember, the scenario we’re talking about here is 2 to 4 weeks. Any talk of shooting thy neighbor is seemingly ridiculous in this context (unless of course defending one’s life – which of course could happen any time, including so called ‘good times’). Let’s not go down that road if we can help it.

        Instead lets talk about what common sense things we might do to minimize threats to our security under a 2 to 4 week disruption where others may not be prepared as we are. Lets identify our own behaviors which may play a role, as well as that of others, etc..

        1. So,,,,
          When you or I or NRPp are in the middle of that 2-4 weeks,
          How do we know its only for 2-4 weeks?
          I agree talk of unload the mossberg on thy neighbor is (tongue in cheek) ridiculous.
          But lets just say your pushy neighborhood watch organizer is being belligerent, pushy and demanding and tries to force his or her way into your home?
          Let em in?
          Put a 230g JHP slug in their forehead?
          Exactly what?
          Stuff to think about,
          And NHM, forget about your plan BB olive barrel for a minute,
          You really going to let a bunch of douchebag so snd sos rummage through your house?

          1. @Tommyboy, Because hopefully you have a portable battery operated radio and have gathered news & information. This event is not nationwide, not EMP, not long lasting SHTF (level 3 and beyond). It’s 2 to 4 weeks.

            “Handling” a pushy neighbor by blasting them with a “230g JHP slug” will be murder. And you will go to jail after the event (or during).

            On the other hand, some states have laws which may give you that right if your life is threatened and you can defend yourself in a court of law in that regard.

            Related article: Does Your State Have A Castle Doctrine?

            How To Determine When It’s REALLY SHTF instead of a ‘blow over’

            I hear what you’re saying. Don’t get me wrong. However it rubs me the wrong way when some people automatically say they’re going to start blasting their neighbors.

            While defending one’s life is certainly justified, I hope to be able and steer the conversation towards what we might do to prevent these things from happening during a 2 to 4 week period of hardship. I know some things are not preventable though. I get that…

          2. Ken,,
            Believe me, i get it, have no plans of resorting to gunplay as the first plan,
            I will not however allow anyone into my home, allow anyone to threaten me, nor allow anyone to threaten my family.
            Tough questions though, ive seen stuff go sideways real quick and seen people do rash things in a moment.
            Rather not find out.
            OTOH
            Even if it is short term my answer will be NO to anyone but the neighbors i know and NO even to some of them as i know them, for almost anything,
            Again, tough situation, but we come first, if others didnt assure their own well being thats not my problem. While it may well be short term, what about next time?

          3. Not only that, but perhaps my ability to resupply is just not there.
            Maybe funds were tight before, will be same after if not worse.
            Then theres that old give a mouse a cookie thing, sooner or later that mouse will want more….,

          4. 230g jhp.. why so messy ?
            That’s right through a “part” and all your walls.

          5. Brotherhorse,
            Messy?
            Not near as messy as those 375g shuttlecock slugs i load or the 15 00 buck pellets,
            Just sayin is all

        2. You’re talking about the worst time frame with the 2-4 week scenario,
          Week 2 desperation. Week 3 despair. Week 4 die off.
          Seems to be an eventuality for the populations within a socialist/communist country lead by a dictator.

          1. This so much depends on so many things. With ZERO help, the 3 to 4 week time frame will become exceedingly difficult and dangerous. I agree.

            By keeping my hypothetical local or regional, my intention is to present a scenario worse than 1 week but not so bad as to be complete entire breakdown of infrastructure along with social chaos and collapse with little or no hope of help (that’s level 3). Something in-between where the unprepared will not be dropping dead, but will becoming very desperate. And how will we (the prepared) deal with this…

            (These were my original thoughts when coming up with levels of preparedness)

            I know that people are prepared at a variety of levels. Very few are prepared to self-sustain and survive beyond one year. Few are prepared adequately to survive a year. More are prepared to survive a month. Many are prepared to survive a week.

          2. If local/regional, then you’re most likely to see logistical assistance from outside of the area.

      2. I dont care about the guy with the mountain of ammo,
        WHAT will NRP do? And how do you know those strays you feed wont stick around and finish off your stash after they ambush you when your asleep?

      3. NRP groups require trust and rules. My folks know the rules and any uninvited guest will be handled like the other uninvited guests. All of us bring a lot to the table. Most of all we can staff 24 hour a day 360 degree security for a extended time frame.

        The uninvited guest situation is why we have several barrels full of dent corn protected by food grade DE to keep bugs out. At around 8 dollars per 50 Pound Bag and treating it with wood ash like they do in Mexico is a HUGE amount of Masa or Corn Mush or… That plus any beans we can spare is your daily meal. I would like to fill a couple of barrels with dried pinto beans so we could grind it up into FAMEAL.

        Not Mc Donald’s but that is the basis of my uninvited guests feeding.

        Just some thoughts, please do not take offence.

        I’ve had to kill before, really don’t want to do that again.

        1. NH Michael;
          So you are advocating Detaining and Kidnaping people for the 2-4 weeks that this Article is advocating? Feeding them Masa and water, all awhile taking your ‘groups’ resources guarding them.

          I’m wondering how that will set in a courtroom at week 5.

          PS; “I’ve had to kill before, really don’t want to do that again.”

          Please do not believe you’re the only one on this BLOG with a past, some of us just don’t care to advertise it.

          1. NRP Where in the %ell do you get “So you are advocating Detaining and Kidnaping people for the 2-4 weeks that this Article is advocating?” out of my words?

            No I have set aside basic supplies to feed those who choose to come to my place asking for food. They can eat it or go somewhere else their choice. I would prefer not to feed cats but I cannot pretend I can shut the door and hide.

            Tell me straight NRP Would you BE Happy if you Drive me away from MSB? I an so sick and tired of people placing such weird meanings to what seems to be simple English.

          2. NH Michael;

            Without the cussing, I asked a question based on your comment of “That plus any beans we can spare is your daily meal” one could easily construe that as they will be there for more that just a hand out and move along. And the fact your group knows the rules.

            Until the latest post you did not state that the Masa was for handing out, although I would wonder if you would also be cooking it for them attracting more “uninvited guest” with the questioned “smells”.

            If you are willing to feed the masses, I applied you. I have a different view of the 2-4 week grid down catastrophe.

            As far as your staying on MSB, I surely hope you do, you have good information to share, although some of us are not adapted to reading well, your input is welcomed.

            And yes some as myself may disagree with your tactics, this is a HUGE world, and a lot of people have differences in a view.

            Or, as a lot of my friends say “Up to you”.

          3. Thank you NRP for the reasonable reply. I do enjoy MSB just wondering why you did not simply ASK for Clarification instead “I’m wondering how that will set in a courtroom at week 5.”

          4. NH Michael 09/19/2018
            NRP Where in the %ell do you get “So you are advocating Detaining and Kidnaping people

            It could be from other posts you have made about building camps and locking people you don’t trust in at night. As far as “driving you away ” from the blog, if you are so thin skinned you can’t take people having different opinions than yours then go ahead and leave. You seem to look for reasons to argue and take offence at others comments here as MSB stated to you the other day. Ken set up a scenario of a 2-4 week problem for us to discuss and you have consistently argued about not knowing how long it will last. I almost never post anything negative on the forum but this is one case where I wish we could block other users.

          5. Poorman I thin Ken can block people from his blog. The rest of us have to choose what we want to read or respond to.

          6. Sorry Poorman I hit send too soon. First off I enjoy reading your posts, quite informative. Seem from this one I am the one with poor communications skills. However I ask if I say something you understand as (Cut and paste here)

            NRP Where in the %ell do you get “So you are advocating Detaining and Kidnaping people

            It could be from other posts you have made about building camps and locking people you don’t trust in at night.

            This helped me understand the NRP comment better thank you. However as I asked NRP maybe ASKING for clarification could have resolved this misunderstanding before irreparable offence is generated.

            The Viking camp is to allow folks in a long term SHTF situation to be work for food and shelter with out having the risk of someone cutting your throat while you sleep. They choose to come into my camp looking for work and food. They can decide they don’t want my food and camping lifestyle and leave. My group does not need their assistance to handle OUR basic needs BUT I need their work to help provide for THEIR Needs.

            If in a long term situation some of them show themselves trustworthy they will advance outside the secured camping ground to build their own homes and become full members of the tribe.

            My personal beliefs which seem to offend some folks says I am to feed the hungry, clothe the naked as well as love mercy and do justice.

            I cannot just build a rock solid armed homestead with my trusted friends and ignore the hungry child at my gate. NOR can I open my gates and my home to folks I do not know or Trust and endanger my trusted friends to the possible crazies or criminals who would happily cut our throats as we sleep.

            Does this make any sense to you Poorman? I hope we can mend fences with each other.

          7. Me thinks NH wants to be this benevolent dictator/chief of a tribe. Gets to decide who is worthy. Anyone remember Jim Jones.

  2. When I went through the police academy in 1971, we were told that 80% of the population we would never really have to deal with, that they were decent, hardworking folks that wouldn’t hurt or steal from anyone. The other 20% were broken down into basically three groups, those that would commit crimes under certain circumstances (opportunistic), those who had few reservations against committing a criminal act except fear of getting caught, and another group that criminal activity was a way of life.

    I found this to be true for the majority of my career, but towards the end, it seemed the numbers were shifting downward for the first group. The overall moral compass of our country has changed for the worse. Acts that we would have considered unthinkable back when I was young are considered “just the way it is” now. This has happened during probably the most prosperous times for a people in history, especially here in the U.S. This does not bode well for behavior if our prosperity and good life suddenly disappears.

    I am not, nor do I believe I will ever become, a shoot first, ask questions later person. Nor am I a naive pacifist. If your actions arouse my suspicions, I will act accordingly. I don’t tolerate fools, or thieves now, nor will I later. Deadly force will always be a last resort, not a first response, unless fractions of seconds dictate.

    Training, experience, and practice builds confidence in your own abilities. Confidence in your own abilities allow you to be more measured and calm in your response to possible threats. Broadcasting your intentions of violent response to threats will make you a target. A calm, confident demeanor may well convince a possible threat pass you by to seek out another victim.

    Just a tip from an old man who spent his life dealing with those who cause the problems.

  3. “A calm, confident demeanor may well convince a possible threat to pass you by to seek out another victim”. Wheather it is 2 days, 2 weeks or 2 months; we will not know at the time. To think you are going to present a confident demeanor and there by solve a problem for yourself by pushing a dangerous person on to your neighbor is way beyond what I find acceptable. That is what I call liberal or cowardice. How many victims must there be? Solve the problem once and for all times. Yes, I may (MAY) face a judge and jury later but a threat must always be faced head on.

    1. Texas Boy,

      Don’t know your background, your abilities, or your motivations. I’ve faced deadly situations head-on more times than I care to relate. I spent a career putting myself between the weak and bullied and those who would do them harm. Even in retirement, my neighbors depend on my coming when they feel threatened, before they call 911. If it makes you feel good about yourself, calling someone a liberal or a coward based on the comment I made, that says a lot about you. I would call your comment immature, but then, that would be playing childish games, which I try to avoid. Sad. It only demonstrates how easily civility and common sense will disappear with even a short term event.

      1. former lawman myself, you really know what you are talking about, you don’t let folks run over you,if it comes down to it, but use that brain folks it is the best weapon you have,be confident but don’t get arrogant with folks,and don’t be overly nice,because some may see this as weakness,and may even attack you, be ready for anything to happen,because at this point some people could be desperate and might try to kill you, just to get a meal, hunger can make people do things they would not ordinarily do.Be prepared and ready. Keep your powder dry.

    2. I am certain the comment made by Dennis was misunderstood. I have seen Dennis post here for some time, and I never have got the idea he is a coward. Quite the contrary.

      You bring up a good point that I have considered before, let’s say that I repel a thug without violence, but I can sense the thug has the propensity for violence himself, do I let him continue on over the way to someone more vulnerable than myself? Any prudent mature thoughts on the matter from the group?

      1. Anonymous,

        Thanks for the kind defense. I’ll describe an incident I had a couple of years ago, that may fit the subject.

        I’m 68 years old, at the time I was 66 and had been retired for 11 years. I live remote in a rugged, mostly forested area. There is a narrow trail/road that crosses my property that for years has been used by “landlocked” properties owners to access their land behind my place. One evening, just before dark, two pickups pulling trailers loaded with 4-wheelers came by my house under full acceleration, rooster-tailing dirt and rock behind them. I immediately gave pursuit (2-3 minute time lapse) and found them parked and unloading their 4-wheelers about a quarter mile down the road on my land. I confronted the oldest, who appeared to be about 21. Two other young men and two girls appeared to be in their teens were observing. I told the eldest that I was not going to tolerate the type of rudeness he displayed coming by my home nor allow him to trespass on my land. He angrily denied doing anything wrong and that he could use that road because he had permission from one of the property owners further down. I stood my ground, nose to nose with him, with me knowing he was about to become violent. Evidently he, with the urging of his companions, realized I was not being intimidated by him, and he backed away reluctantly, letting me know that this (confrontation) wasn’t over. I told them they couldn’t leave their tow vehicles on my property and they angrily left, going deeper into the area, but off my property.
        My experience told me this wasn’t the end of it.

        I returned to my house and called the sheriffs department, telling them of the confrontation and the fact I expected some kind of retaliation. I was informed that it would be 2-4 hours before a deputy could respond to make a report. I told the dispatcher just to make sure and make a note in the log of our conversation.

        About three hours later, I hear a 4-wheeler pull up in front of my home. I immediately stepped onto my front porch with my hand resting on the pistol in my pocket. One of the younger teenagers was just stepping off his ATV. Upon seeing me he said “my sister is hurt bad, I need to call an ambulance”. He was obviously intoxicated. I told him he couldn’t come on my porch, to stay in the driveway. He ignored my command and I pulled the pistol from my pocket. He froze momentarily, then repeated he was coming inside to use my phone. At that point I pointed the pistol at him and repeated that he could not come on my porch, much less inside my. He appeared confused, either from his intoxication, or the fact their plan was working. I stepped back inside the doorway to retrieve my cordless phone adjacent to it, never turning my back or removing my eyes from him. I then asked, “who do you want me to call, the ambulance or the sheriff?” He turned, ran to his ATV just as two other ATV’s started their engines little behind and to the side of my home accelerating rapidly away with him trying to catch up.

        There is no doubt in my mind this was a planned home invasion by a few angry, intoxicated teenagers. The way I presented myself, no doubt, prevented this from becoming a deadly force encounter. The deputies finally arrived after midnight. I don’t fault them. Underfunded, undermanned law enforcement in rural areas is a fact of life.

        My question is this. How would others here have handled that scenario?

        1. Dennis
          I have walked in those shoes, it’s not for the faint of heart. It will get a lot worse.

        2. I think you responded just right to the escalating provocations. Given my temperament, once they proceeded from the property onto the neighbor’s land, I would have blocked their return – dropped a tree, parked a tractor, rolled a boulder across the path. And I would have called the neighbor to come remove them right after I called the sheriff.

  4. At this point, assuming 1) that the expected duration of 2 – 4 weeks is commonly known and 2) that it’s early enough in the season, I intend to pull all my neighbors together (within a certain range) and have a “garden” party. Everybody cooperates in pulling out lawns, I provide the seeds and know-how to create a garden that will feed them till the end of the “event.” For winter I’ll provide seeds at the beginning of the event and they’ll have to provide their own buckets/dirt and a place inside to plant.

    At 2-4 weeks I consider it more of a teaching tool than anything else. “Why didn’t you prepare while you could?” and help them become more self-sufficient for the future. With an actual experience and reinforcement it might not be such a big deal for the next event. Those who say “It’ll never happen again” are on their own.

    1. Sorry but why would you want to have people pull out their lawn and plant a garden for a 2-4 week event?

      1. Because a 2 – 4 week event is essentially training. With something that short it’s not a major catastrophe (except to the people caught in it) but the transitory thought to prepare and get ready for something larger is probably useless without a tangible reminder. That square of garden and eating lettuce for two weeks because you didn’t have anything else (I’d also go over which weeds can be eaten) MIGHT be enough push for some of them to start moving. If not, their loss and they can eat weeds for a week or two. Most yards have enough weeds and other edible plants to last that long on very short rations.

  5. I’m going to the sporting goods store this afternoon to get my game tags. From the sound of things, I think I’d better pick up another can of Bear spray. I also would shoot only as a last resort. Maybe also a small spray for my pocket. I would help someone if I could. But IF it ever came down to shooting, and I hope it never will, well, I’ve been a marksman my whole life. If I got off the first shot, that would be it. God forbid. Anyway, if I did give some food away, I would act like it was coming out of my own mouth, and tell them that was almost the last of it. Maybe that would work, maybe not.

  6. Strapping on a handgun. I’d have to think about it in this situation. I have no qualms with anyone packing a pistol while outside in the country. I do so myself if I’m the least bit concerned with poisonous snakes or other hazards.

    I’m sure most folks have run across a person in town, who is doing the open carry thing. What is your immediate thoughts of this person? He has the right to do it but, I instantly begin to form an opinion of this guy. I watch from a distance and try to keep that distance. Just makes ya wonder what’s up with this guy’s thinking. Maybe it’s nothing. Maybe it is something. At what point do ya want to become that guy and endure the inevitable concern of others. Could be a good thing, maybe not.

    I know, I know, do the concealed carry. I can and probably would in town. Open carry gives everyone pause. I’m not concerned with the “intimidation” part of this equation. Depending on the time of year, concealed carry is not very handy, ie; shorts and a tee shirt.

    My point being, think it over ahead of time. You must protect yourself. I would no doubt, stay home and thus, eliminate the issue. At what point does open carry become a good, and more importantly, become an accepted thing in an extended grid down situation?

    Where I live, gun shots are a pretty common sound. No one thinks anything of it. It’s just so and so target shooting again. I doubt there would be much target shooting in a grid down scenerio. I’ll probably be that open carry guy by day 3, even at home.

    1. Plainsmedic, what’s the status quo for your AO. Sounds like open carry is not the typical MO for your locale. Could be a newbe to your area who is from an area where OC is totally accepted, and thinking that it’s the same there. Should have done some checking first of course. Maybe a rookie at carrying and thinks that just because it’s legal, then may as well😯

    2. ” Depending on the time of year, concealed carry is not very handy, ie; shorts and a tee shirt. ”

      I carry a 45 in an iwb holster all year and wear shorts and tee shirt when its warm. But I have a big belly to help hide it. If I am expecting any kind of trouble I also put a 380 in my pocket. It’s not normal for people to open carry but many do on their way to hunt. And LOTS of people hunt around here.

  7. Ken,

    I’ve contemplated this scenario for the past several years. I’ve even gone so far as to strategically interact with both of my neighbors to gain insight into their mindset; a subtle form of psychological profiling. I believe it’s about asking the right questions, without raising any eyebrows or suspicions.

    Some might view this as being deceptive. The fact that one is interacting with a neighbor (or anyone for that matter) with an ulterior motive or agenda could be misconstrued as just plain wrong. But when we are talking about future security and survival, pre-planning and using good judgement is key.

    1. Liberty Defender- having just moved to a new area where we know no one. Can you please give me some good probing, non eyebrow raising questions to query on my neighbors? Thanks

  8. A quick note at lunch.

    First while it’s good to say it’s a month long problem I kind of doubt we would know that. Every day stress levels will climb. It’s human nature to worry. Folks will act out more and more each day the power is off. You can bet on that friends.

    Second If power is down and all that maybe Food is not going to be the 30 day issue. Water will be.

    Depending on the season and where you live Water is apt to be the problem. What is the rule of 3’s? Water 3 days before your almost dead? Food 3 weeks if I recall correctly?

    Not all of us live near a clean UNFROZEN stream or lake. Folks not knowing basic sanitation are apt to be doing their toilet business and washing up way to close to that water source.

    Bad water will also kill you in most cases a week of misery

    I mentioned my ladder of escalation in last weekends posting. Quiet Confidence with Bear Spray nearby is my first choice. Quarterstaff second and I hope never to shoot another person again. No Tommyboy I also will not accept some self appointed Community Organizer invading my home to search for food and such.

    1. NHM
      Didnt think so bud,,,
      We all have limits, like was mentioned somewhere the situation will be dynamic, ever changing.
      While avoidance will be the best bet, there may well be situations that are un avoidable.
      Lets just hope we never see it.

  9. Ken;
    Now that I/we got the ‘shoot first ask questions later’ part done with, here is a little insight to my thinking.

    A two to 4 week is the PERFECT time to go Gray…. or darker.

    I have zero problems in Hiding, disappearing, and becoming invisible for as long as would be needed. This includes hiding one of your vehicles, intruders that know you may believe you left for parts unkonw.

    No smoke cooking (no wood burning, just clean fuel) or eating cold.
    No lights AT ALL.
    No noise from Generators. Yes the Freezers may defrost in a week (if you have ‘good’ freezers) Canning up stuff from the freezer is good, as long as you do it quiet and don’t advertise with smells and such.
    No Travel or recreational outside activates. Yes the Garden may go all to hell, ohhhhh well, better to look like the place is abandoned than attract visitors but tending the Garden. AND if someone raids the Garden, so what, you had better have food without the Garden for 2-4 weeks.
    No Garbage outside for visitors to find

    If someone, the neighbors, knock on the door, keep your mouth shut, do NOT answer the door, and stay out of sight. And yes if they break in than you may have a problem, BUT this is where OPSAC comes in handy, if they don’t think you have stuff, they probably will not risk entry.

    2-4 weeks is nothing as far as time if TSHTF temporarily. Sure you will want to help others, and that probably will be a GREAT thing, BUT once the SHTF is over will those that you helped not know exactly what you have, and EXPECT it the next time?

    Now before I get blasted by everyone, I’m not some heartless SOB that will not help, but someone please tell me how to without risking EVERYTHING I have worked very hard for the last 10 years, or do I just open the doors and give it all away?

    1. NRP
      Good points.
      Our neighborhood is pretty small, most of us have UTVs etc, most pay pretty good attention to whats going on. Thats our part, up the road live the organizers, the busy bodies, and ironicly they are also predominately liberals.
      I know most all of them even if they dont really know me.
      It will be interesting to say the least and am more than willing to have shouting matches with any of em. In all likelihood, they havent got the balls to do much more than that and if in fact even go there.
      Its forces from outside our direct area that im more concerned about.

    2. NRP: When you give something away, just start crying and say “well, I’ve done without before”. Pretty soon they’ll start feeling bad and not come back. Maybe.

      1. BigBadCat;
        Maybe, on the other hand, once you feed that “Cat” it seems to never leave,
        I’m wondering if you feed the Neighborhood for a week, will they ever leave? Or completely clean you out?
        Again remember this scenario is for 2-4 weeks. After Wally World again has supplies with those same neighbors learn? or just depend on you for “the next time”?

    3. NRP while it makes a good storyline to think it’s going to be a 2-4 weeks long event but you would not know until power started returning here and there etc.

      Your planning on canning your freezer stuff yes? Any meat in that canning plan? Can you really keep the smell of all that delicious meat cooking inside your “Abandoned” home from hungry noses down wind?

      When I can food it really smells up the house and I suspect the yard but I am NOT hungry so I don’t notice it. Also I generate a lot of garbage when canning and that trash bag will be smelling pretty ripe in a few days let alone 2-4 weeks. Human waste is also pretty hard to store inside your “Abandoned” home although the smell of feces would add a layer of authenticity to the “Abandoned Look”.

      Can you really accept that hungry folks will NOT search everywhere they can for Food and Water? Even “Abandoned” Homes? I would think that “Abandoned” Homes and businesses would be FIRST on my search for salvage foods. People in Occupied Homes might Harm Me.

      Yes it’s a hard situation NRP. OPSEC as we have found out from other posters here even recently is not as solid as we’d like to think. Hungry people have Great Memories of stories of gardens and pantries discussed years ago over coffee.

      I too don’t want to give away all I’ve worked for to strangers, I also don’t want to be burned out of my home by angry people who also DO NOT Know that power will suddenly return in just a few more days?

      Hard subject.

      1. NH Michael;
        My Storyline, as you called it, is specifically for a 2-4 week scenario that Ken specified in the Article. Also as Ken has commented on, anyone with the slightest skill set and preparedness has Comms that would also be monitored giving a fairly good assessment of what’s going on.

        Obviously you did not read my entire comment on “Canning”, here is the tag-line “Canning up stuff from the freezer is good, as long as you do it quiet and don’t advertise with smells and such.” Last time I canned Bacon, I used a Pressure Cooker, since the food was sealed in jars there actually was very little “smell” unless you obviously “cook” the meats beforehand.

        Next, I don’t know how much “garbage” you produce in a month, but it “should” be concealable for a short duration of time, maybe not if you’re trashy…. But for a month, a pile in a closet should again not be a problem

        Human waste? Ahhhhh Don’t know about you, but I have a Septic System and water, how about flushing the toilet? Even on a sewer system it should still be functional for a month or not.

        “I would think that “Abandoned” Homes and businesses would be FIRST on my search for salvage foods. People in Occupied Homes might Harm Me.”
        That’s the danger of being someone that is willing to become a criminal isn’t it? Are you sure that Home/business is “Abandoned”? For once you cross that line sometimes anything goes…..

        Quote; “OPSEC as we have found out from other posters here even recently is not as solid as we’d like to think. Hungry people have Great Memories of stories of gardens and pantries discussed years ago over coffee.”

        Ohhh I have no problem really if you and other “posters”, of coffee drinkers, here can figure out whereas I live within a 50 mile radius, but please remember, here in NM we have an interesting version of the Castle Doctrine and the Stand my Ground “laws”, again, if you want to invade my home please know there “may” be repercussions. Plus how many hundreds of miles is one going to travel to get here for a few cans of beans, and what reception do you believe one will get once someone kicks in that door?

        Tis a fine line whereas someone knocks and beats on a door as opposed to breaking in and attempting to “loot” a home. The hard part will be when a hungry mom has 3 starving children asking at the door for food and water…… I’m wondering how tough most of us would be?
        Talk is cheap.

        1. I agree with what you’re saying NRP. When we can here at home, there’s really not much smell going on. Mostly heat and steam. On the other hand if I throw a juicy steak on the grill or some burgers, sure that’ll smell pretty darn good. But canning? No. Not really.

          Communications (radios of a variety) are so very important. I can listen locally, regionally, nationally, and internationally with my various radios. This will help me discover what’s going on out there. I can’t emphasize it enough…

          Yup, there will be no issues with my septic system. And under the 2 to 4 week scenario, for those on town water and sewer – odds are the town’s municipal supply and sewage treatment will be running (they all have generators and fuel). (I mentioned this in the earlier article where we talked about water). If you have a well pump, well, we talked about that the other day.

          Regarding OPSEC among commenters on this blog, I agree with what you said and it seems overly paranoid to be so concerned. Like I’m going to drive to your place to steal your 600 rolls of TP? (or someone else?) ;) (got my own, thank you very much). I would like to think that we all are of similar mindset to an extent (preparedness mindset) and enjoy learning from each other. We don’t comment here to discover where others live so we can go steal their $hit. And Joe Sixpack or gangbanger are not reading the blog – and couldn’t figure out where we live close enough anyway even if they were. And even if they did, good luck with that. Even they are not that stupid… Better to victimize the weak and unprepared.

          1. Ken
            I guess the answer to your question should come from people in Venezuela – how far would they go for a roll of TP.? Better keep your situation awareness on high alert NRP. :)

          2. For sure, when you get to the Venezuela stage, it’s VERY different indeed! It took them awhile to get there. More than a few weeks or months ;)

          3. 2 weeks,
            4 weeks,
            3 years,
            Wont matter, theres going to be good smells coming from our place as the first stuff thats getting cooked is teriyaki beef, chicken, marinated carne esada, and steaks of all sorts as well as sausages and some other meats. All that stuff has to get used up first unless the power stays on, but if not, that stuff has to go first as im not wasting it, not really good canned, so rather than run refer indefinitely its getting BBQd,
            M pretty sure the smell will be good,

          4. That’s one reason why I’ve implemented several alternative energy sources (to keep my freezers frozen). There’s a lot of $ meat in there, and it was worth the investment. I won’t have to can everything if the power is out for 2 – 4 weeks (or longer).

        2. NRP can you please explain this comment? I’m feeling a little stupid tonight.

          “Ohhh I have no problem really if you and other “posters”, of coffee drinkers, here can figure out whereas I live within a 50 mile radius, but please remember, here in NM we have an interesting version of the Castle Doctrine and the Stand my Ground “laws”, again, if you want to invade my home please know there “may” be repercussions. Plus how many hundreds of miles is one going to travel to get here for a few cans of beans, and what reception do you believe one will get once someone kicks in that door?”

          Where did you get the idea I am even vaguely interested in finding your place NRP? Where did you get the idea I would ROB Anybody? I have a pretty decent set up here in NH with friends I can trust. Even my employment is local so I can easily get home during an EMP with my folding Bicycle or Boots. My comment was folks local to you seeking food and water.

          “Tis a fine line whereas someone knocks and beats on a door as opposed to breaking in and attempting to “loot” a home. The hard part will be when a hungry mom has 3 starving children asking at the door for food and water…… I’m wondering how tough most of us would be?”

          We seem to be in agreement here but when I replied to your post your plan was to hide in your “Abandoned” home and NOT answer knocks on the door. How would a starving family KNOW you were in there to “Break In to Loot you” if your home looks “Abandoned”?

          The Starving Mother is why I spent the time and money creating that food supply. I could not hide from a hungry child.

          “Talk is cheap.” Yep I agree.

          1. NH Michael;
            Respectively I believe we should discontinue the conversation.
            Lets call it good, ok?
            But again, you have good information that would be good for a LOT of the beginners to preparing. Tis your choice how to present it, but dont get all frustrated if others disagree.

          2. NRP & NHM,
            Naw, now Don’t either of you guys go away! We love the banter and comments, I have learned a ton from both of you. NHM, your demographics are so different from NRP’s, you are in the Woods, but with a high population density. NRP is in the SW, guarding the fabled Aztec TP Horde, where even if they count the lizards and coyotes, the county population could fit in a city bus. Two very different situations OPSEC wise, and two different approaches. But hearing your approaches to your unique situations really helps everyone else think about their situational OPSEC. Time for chocolate and a shot.

          3. Why is it always “A mother and her 3 starving children”?
            Say the truth! A women with 3 children from different fathers, who did not spend a dime on extra food and water but, had no problem spending hundreds or even thousands of $’s for tattoos and piercings.
            Getting her hair done once a month, her fingernails every week, the latest high end cell phone and the designer sun glasses and purses.
            And driving a high end vehicle that should have never been sold to her and was behind on payments for said vehicle by the third month!
            And you expect me to put extra food to the side and take it out of the mouths of my family to support this “Gimme It Cause I Am Entitled’ woman?
            Me thinks it ain’t gonna happen on my watch!

          4. MadDog
            THAT is exactly what we see here, EBT buying steaks and shrimp and then jumping in an 85,000$ silverado with a lift and 4000$ tires
            Who is John Galt

        3. Hehehe. OK, my brain just did a backflip.

          ” Plus how many hundreds of miles is one going to travel to get here for a few cans of beans…”

          Oh, I would walk 500 miles
          and I would walk 500 more
          just to be the one who gets the TP
          stacked behind the kitchen door…

          1. NRP is horrible at opsec. That picture’s been around for YEARS. :)

          2. Lauren, Ken:
            Thats an old photo, has 4 more layers now and some hangimg from the ceiling LOLOL

      2. NH Michael, If you had a portable battery operated radio, chances are that you would know it’s only going last 2 to 4 weeks. News & Information is VERY important during a grid down situation. One of the first things I will want to discover is WHAT happened. This will enable me to make my own estimation of probable outage duration. Or at least give me a clue if this is going to turn into a level 3 event (which would make a HUGE difference in what I do next).

        1. Ken, I do have a couple of battery operated radios and that reminds me to check if one is in the Faraday Cage with fresh batteries.

          I hope the radio gives useful and reliable information about the situation. However if history is any guide the Propaganda will be thick.

          Thanks for the reminder Ken, knowing there was hope and power coming back makes it easier to feed reasonable folks basic food with out so much concern I am throwing away my Tribes reserves forever.

          1. Intelligence gathering includes ingesting the propaganda from broadcast outlets, tuning in to personal broadcasts (HAM radio), listening to emergency response frequencies, law enforcement, communicating with your neighborhood network (if you have one), etc…

            If you have no intelligence gathering capability, you will be blind (and at a great disadvantage).

            Regarding Faraday, you SHOULD already know if you have a portable radio in there (I recommend several types of radios including 2-way communications). If not, I advise that you make a list of what’s important (to you) and get it done. Then you don’t have to check later.

            I also recommend keeping documentation (a binder for example) with this type of quick reference information.

    4. NRP, That’s why you give any food to a local church or food bank with the expressed knowledge that if anybody asks, “It was/is an anonymous donation”.

      1. blackjack22, ALL;
        Actually that’s an excellent idea, as long as it’s totally anonymous.
        There are only two local churches in the area, would be a simple Night-Run.
        I believe others has also mentioned it,

    5. Consider this, you don’t know upfront the crises will only last 2 to 4 weeks, you refuse to aid/help someone that shows up on your doorstep and that individual later dies. The 2 to 4 week period ends, you still have plenty of supplies left for you and yours, late at night when the demons come how will you deal with that for the rest of your life?

      1. Max & Agent 99—-do you give money/food to every panhandler you see? do you give to everyone who now comes to your door? (we get a lot of folks at the door)? Likely these folks too die within a limited time span. ————

        1. Wasn’t advocating either way, just wondering if anyone else ever thought about it…touchy group this week…explains why Noah loaded mainly animals I suppose..

      2. Max & Agent 99;
        Without trying to sound like the Azz-Hole I am, one cannot save the world.
        Thousands of people around the world die everyday from starvation, disease, ‘Bad’ water, and a million other things.

        Those Demons you speak of, don’t be so sure they don’t already visit me and many MANY here on MSB now.

        Anon brings up a good point. Socialism is great till one runs out of other peoples money,

        Question is, do you or I give up everything to those that are in need and live in squalor ourselves?
        As you stated we don’t know if the crisis will last 2-4 weeks, so do I die because I gave everything away to others that did not plan because the SHTF lasted for a year?
        How many months to I save for as others eat my food? When I die because I gave everything away will that’s same Demons visit those I gave to?

        Food for thought, not trying to cause a fight.

        1. NRP ——I can hardly imagine who/what would show up at my door in a SHTF situation. I already get the “most improbable” solicitors/askers/scroungers at my door. For example, a (different type of) person comes knocking at my (and other houses) door several times a year for going on ten yrs now, seeking donations for money to build a wheelchair ramp for “one of your neighbors who has a kid in a wheelchair and needs a ramp”…..Some of these “askers” are fairly blunt/aggressive. I do like to send the rougher looking family members to the door, it helps cut down on verbiage. But, never do I open the door anymore (speak through a small window)……Interesting thing is, I have yet in ten or fifteen yrs to see any family with in wide range of my neighbor hood with a child in a wheel chair. mmmm And this is mild compared to what will happen in SHTF

          1. Anon;
            I get time in the morning I’ll relay me encounter with a pair of Jehovah Witness gentlemen that wandered down my drive…..

        2. If all indications from intel gathering indicate a short term duration for the emergency, then by all means, if you have the wherewithal to offer assistance to the less fortunate do so. They probably won’t care if your donation was anonymous or not.
          The important thing is to make sure that it’s going to those who are in genuine need of help.
          Something I’ve often wondered is why is it that the people who have to decide to either buy groceries or make the mortgage payment seem to be the ones being solicited to help the less fortunate. Where are the multimillionaires and billionaires who can actually afford to help those people?
          I understand that they often donate and have foundations, etc. But it just seems like some funds sometimes need to be re-directed elsewhere .

      3. Max & Agent 99
        It is not that people are touchy, not realizing it your statement put them in a touchy mood/position.

        You have to understand that charity begins at home by taking care of your family that is unable to fend for themselves.

        IF a household were to give their food away which they had planned for, saved/slaved to produce-procure just to give it away to a passing stranger be it a woman/or man who was dragging along their children who took no entitative to plan for their family. Why in the world would you believe that they(msb group) would have to live with the demons?

        Of course it would bother them, we are after all humans with a conscious but crossing certain lines can not crossed, or there would be no stopping what you have started.

        I am not being snarky, just a thought process where we all work our tails off to see that our households are fed, clothed.
        Yes, I do believe in charity. There are places here in our area we donate food, money, clothing to give a helping hand up……not a hand out. That is what makes the difference, your scenario is ‘the hand out’ . mho

  10. Just a thought–

    Saw a financial guru on FOX business this am.
    He was talking about home equity loans and how bad they are, anyway, he said that probably 80% of families are living paycheck to paycheck.
    That is a staggering number.
    How would that effect you during 4 weeks of grid down?

    1. Me, not at all. Others, it depends on the level of grid-down and whether the banks decided to ignore common sense and decency in favor of the bottom line. Now, which would they choose? Hm…

      Seems to me that in the past banks have decided in favor of the bottom line, foreclosing on or repossessing the property of those who have recently been involved in a natural disaster and can’t get that bill paid (No access to cell phones, ATM’s, and the bank where their money was held not operational).

      Laws are supposed to prevent that, but ONLY if the .gov declares an emergency and implements those laws. Also, it helps if someone brings it to the attention of the media.

      I seem to remember a quote from somewhere or other, that laws are for the benefit of those who can afford a lawyer?

  11. Well, what happened last time? I’ve not experienced lights-out for more than a day or two since I was a teenager. Then my family had enough canned, frozen, fresh, and on the hoof/claw/root, and sufficient firewood for heating and cooking and warm bath water, to be just fine.

    Years before I moved here there was a big storm and major power outage that lasted a couple weeks. Been told stories about how the fellow who owns the gas station and mini-market about six miles up the main road powered up his generator, fueled those who were helping the neighborhood, and fed folks until power was back on and folks could get to town 25 miles away.

    Given our fortunate circumstances here, I would certainly help out neighbors who have become friends. It’s a fairly cohesive group of kind, generous folks who all have some level of preparedness going on. The menacing ones, and the ones prepared to seize what they want (yes, they’re here too), I’d send on down the road.

    Unfortunately, most of those I would not let onto my property also have small children in their families. If sending them on their way would guarantee their demise, I imagine I’d query the group to see if we would be prepared to host a daily potluck at the community gathering spot where the dead end road meets the main road. I’d bring the buckwheat and garbanzo bean salad.

  12. When looting begins, one or two break in and take some stuff. Then many onlookers join in because the first ones were unopposed. Then you have a mob.

    So, now you have a mob going from property to property, cleaning out homes. What do you do? Bug out? Try to fight all of them?

    So you bug out and you are left with nothing but a burned out property and are faced with trying to survive with your family amongst thousands of other migrants. Perhaps death defending yourself and family would be preferable.

    You see the mob coming because you have security alarms, then what? Just remember that the winners tell the tale. If you are right and defending yourself, you can still be considered a war crimes monster. You see everyday where the truth is being twisted to suit someones agenda. Even after many years, someone can dig up the bodies and may lie about the circumstances of the deaths.

    I see only one answer regarding our security and you may scoff at my statement. Get this country back on an honorable and self-sufficient path. A land of law and order with secure borders is our best protection. The hurricane relief efforts by many volunteers show us that, with good leadership, we can handle most calamities.

  13. To be truthful, staying true to the 2-4 week scenario, in a grid down scenario, in my neck of the woods the most likely visits would be from the scattered neighbors coming by and asking if I had any news and there would be an exchange of offers to help if the other thought they might need it. Sure, if strangers started showing up or seen prowling around, they would be confronted if caught where they shouldn’t be, but heck, that’s how we do it right now. Sure, we’ve got a few ne’er do wells scattered around, but they don’t do their evil in our area, and I doubt they will, even after shtf. They well know the good folks won’t put up with poor behavior.

    As far as going armed, I’m always armed and assume everyone I meet is also. I pocket carry, have every confidence in my ability to handle any likely need requiring me to deploy it in self defense. This comes from constant and consistent practice, not from watching action movies. I occasionally hip carry around the place if I’m going to be very far from my vehicle, but never in public places, since I’m unlikely to need the longer sight radius to hit a snake in the head or a squirrel to add to the stew. One of the hardest things to get used to as a uniformed officer was knowing that everywhere you went, no matter the circumstance, you are the center of attention with every eye watching you.

  14. Ask yourself these questions before giving food away.

    1. How long will the crises last?
    2. How widespread is it?
    3. Who and how many are you responsible for?
    4. Is outside help coming?
    5. Has law and order broken down?

  15. Hm. 2-4 weeks? I would head outside to talk to these people (with my darlin’ watching my back) and tell them there is PLENTY of food and water – in town. Just keep heading “that-a-way (east), oh, until you get to the stop sign and turn right. Head right into town and the churches and people in town will help you and feed you. Yes. That’s right. Keep moving. Right down the road a piece….”

    I would probably pass out water to them. Food? Hm. Don’t know about that for 2-4- week event. They might remember where they got it In the future. Don’t want them back. Oh, and BTW…our churches (all denominations) ARE set up in town for handling people who need food and water all the time anyway. It IS, however, about a 12-15 mile hike into town. Hopefully, they won’t return.

    Also, if it is our neighbors, well, we are already set up to help each other, check on each other. We do that now. Strangers, I don’t know…..and I think it would depend upon what kind of event happened. Guess we wouldn’t truly know how to react until it happens. Good topic.

    1. Good comment. Reasonable response to others looking for something. Keep moving along… nothing to see here, but here’s some water if you’re thirsty…

  16. If people come to your door, tell them to return to the road before you will talk to them.
    Do not get into a conversation with them about their problems and what they think you should be doing to help them. Never defend your decision!
    If there is only a mother and her children, have someone check the area for the husband.
    If town council members arrive asking for contributions be very careful. There are a lot of people who are looking to them for help. If they badmouth you to the town they will be hostile toward you and they will never forget even after the emergency is over.
    If there is a donation Center quietly leave your contribution there. Send the people there.

    1. Skeez
      The town council busy body equivalents in my neighborhood already think im a total jerk,,,
      So why should i be anything but to them eh?
      I really dont like dudes with manbuns snd liberal tendencies and definitely have no respect for lawyers,,, especially liberal ones,
      Like i said before somewheres, they can blow me, they are SOL

  17. I have little ones. I do wonder how many of their school friends know we have a well stocked supply of boxed MAc n cheese ;) They would quickly let their parents know about it.
    Of course not everything is out in the open. Like a squirrel I will be busy burring all of the nuts if within first few days. This will help supplement my already concealed supplies. I will leave just enough on my shelves in case the mob of busy bodies and zombie hord demand to look through my pantry. They can take 10 boxes of mac n cheese 20 lbs of rice and 5 cans of spam and leave thinking they won and took my supplies. When night falls I will pay the organizer of the mob a personal “visit” on my terms…

    1. White cracker,,,,and what makes you think they won’t take you out just because,,,,,your thinking is way to soft ,,,

      1. Hey Oldhomesteader You are absolutely right :) I am way too soft… when the mob comes I need to barricade myself inside my home with my kids while the mob burns me out of my home then as we exit they will gun us down all for the small pre-staged above mentioned supplies that I would be using for misdirection.

        I am talking about de-escalating a bad situation were your desperate neighbors are looking to feed their children and will do anything, including looting your home.

        I guess “paying a visit” to the mob organizer later at night on my terms. may not be the smartest move but they have become a threat to my family and I will do what is necessary to protect my family. Oldhomesteader’s Option if I am not mistaken is to Simply fight a mob that is standing on your door step which is a fool’s endevour. You would be fighting them on their terms.

        Just think Waco or Ruby Ridge. How did that turn out for the well armed occupants? Waco, they got burned out by the Feds.

        1. White cracker,,,,,,,,,,point I was trying to make ,you need a group. ,at best or a least DW with a double 12 that she knows how to use ,,OBTW I lost a good friend at ruby ridge ,tell me about it ,,,,

          1. I am sorry for your loss at Ruby Ridge but this defines my point… your gonna get killed fighting the enemy on their terms. Better to fall back then launch a counter strike when you are ready. They will also catch you when your pants are down.
            Back on point…When your in a bad situation you have to make the most logical choices. Hoping that all these people want is food at this point. Just give it to them (its not worth dying over) after they leave then bugout to your fall back location. I would hope that I would be well ahead of that type of situation (via local intel gathering) and not even be in the home with my kids when that mob shows up at the front door. But you do need to prepare for these worst case scenarios. I know it is hard to account for all scenarios and everybody will be in a different situation. All I know is even a well stocked pantry is not worth dying over. Protecting your family, Yes… If I see a bunch of q..rs show up for my sons I will fight to the death compared to a horde of neighbors just looking for food.

          2. White cracker,,,,,, the point I hope to make is ,,Bill Degan was killed by the FBI sniper shot in the back ,,funny thing is Bill worked on a drug investigation that connected to the Clinton’s,,,,same sniper that killed the informant at Waco ,again a drug running deal ,again connected to the Clinton’s ,,,hum ,,,,just goes to show ,who do you trust ?,,,,,,,

    2. Oh, excellent! I will do the same. Empty my pantries except for a few items. Good call!

  18. Dennis said:
    in my neck of the woods the most likely visits would be from the scattered neighbors coming by and asking if I had any news and there would be an exchange of offers to help if the other thought they might need it.

    Very similar here, except the neighbors aren’t so scattered. I live in town, but there’s less then 1000 of us and the next town is more than a few miles away.

    Not everyone in town stockpiles food, but everyone has something to contribute to the community. I have seen everyone come together to help those in need many, many times. I would be shocked if it didn’t happen in a one month scenario. I would bet that the County Fairgrounds became a place where you could contribute a canned good and receive a meal. Or if you have no cans, then you could help with inventory or doing dishes for food. Or be part of the “meals on wheels” for those in need who are house bound. Or help with community security/communication. Or health care. I know my neighbor a few doors down is an RN, and I bet she would do home visits for people who can’t get to the hospital many miles away if she got some meals in return.

    Lots of people here hunt and have a freezer full of meat, but no other food stockpiled. They could contribute to the pot of “stone soup”, and get some food diversity in exchange. Or help with community security with that hunting rifle.

    I could let the geeky teenager next block over borrow my world radio and solar charger for information gathering and provide some community situational awareness. That’s time I don’t have to spend doing it.

    Being part of a community isn’t always 100% equitable in every situation. But if I am generous with my neighbors in one situation, they will be there for me when I need them. I definitely consider “paying it forward” to be part of my preps.

    1. I also live in a small town. Most of our neighbors are older people. Most of us get along well together and help each other out when we can. Any time we get snow or the power goes out I always check on the neighbors. I share garden veggies and one neighbor brings me all the mason jars she can find and another brings me pickles she made from the cucumbers I gave her. I work on another neighbors car and he mowed my yard after I had back surgery. My problem would come from family that always want something but never want to work for it. I don’t mind sharing but it has to go both ways. I have offered to let them have veggies but they would not come and pick them. I have offered deer meat but they would not help process it. If SHTF we would work together with the neighbors but the lazy people would not get a warm welcome.

  19. Wow. You guys are on a roll today! Great comments and food fir thought. Now with all your input, I can make mine. For a 2-4 week event, I know my neighbors would work together. I would immediately throw up warning signs around the property for the scroungers from town, and I know they would come looking for trouble. (All our local towns have food pantries, bulk grain and food stuff storage warehouses, why would they bother to come out to us?. ) a family might get told politely to clear off and head to town, maybe given some water. Threatening persons would get a yelled warning, if not heeded, then a warning shot. Most people will clear at the sound of a gunshot, but it would be used as a last resort. Could I shoot someone? Don’t know, thankfully I have never been faced with that. If my life was truly threatened, I would hope I have the guts to defend myself and mine. All of today’s comments are fantastic, given me a lot to ponder, thanks Ken and all.

    1. minerjim

      Please don’t disregard the fact that some people might have the intent to eliminate the source of that gunshot.

      Another point, someone mentioned they might hide in the house and maybe the visitor would move on. This may invite a close quarters combat situation if the visitor decides to some on in, If I were to hide, I would do it outside where I could watch the house and not be so restricted in movement. It will really unnerve a person if you speak up from behind them while they concentrate on their intended task. Surprise is an important tool. Think and use it.

  20. Dennis did a prime example of real life SHTF, in a non 3-4 week into a month whatever…
    Good job, Dennis
    All I can say is,
    In week 3 or 4 people will definitely be wanting, maybe scoping potentials, maybe in dire.need??
    I’m sure you all do now but,….
    Doors and windows out buildings locked even if your inside the home. No one enters your home, not even your known neighbors. That nobody, that mom with child doesn’t even come close to approaching your steps without you intervening. If you feel the need to help, offer very little. There will be a week five, and maybe back to normal. Which is a catch 22, they helped me last time…..
    Never answer a door with out a weapon. Knife, bat, pipe, mace, g u n, wasp spray…..and phone
    Just my own opinion, I would rather carry concealed than open.
    Know your surroundings at all times, treat everyone with suspicion.

    1. Have a nice little 1911 commander and a sweet little leather IWB holster i made to my liking for just such situations.
      If I wear my canvas foremans jacket i can wear my kydex rig with full size Para 1911 and double mag pouch and its not readily visible either, rides high and tilts forward so front end sits higher than most. Works with the flannel shirts i wear too, someone really needs to be looking to see the print, it looks like a cell phone holster for the bigger smart phones.

      1. Just don’t like iWB’s.
        Shields conceal well with a baggy t-shirt.
        Ohh that? It’s my insulin pump.😎

  21. – Strikes me that the aftermath of most major weather-related incidents (tornadoes/hurricanes) tend to run in the 2-4 week range. Yes, I have heard of the occasional shooting, stabbing or other poor choice happening. The most usual occurrence seems to be due to lack of information being spread around.
    Most of the people where I live aren’t unduly alarmed by the sight of someone carrying openly. Having said that, I would prefer to be armed, but continue to carry concealed. The ones who are openly armed tend to draw attention and drawing attention often draws fire.
    For myself, I tend to believe that I would share water freely; food would be much less, and only on a case by case basis. If there is widespread shortage, I would send folks to the churches. Every church in town has a kitchen and a community hall where folks could get fed. I might have to monitor the church I attend, and monitor the others to see how their supplies are holding out. If they are getting short, I might have to make a little middle-of the night donation if I have the foodstuffs to spare.
    Just my two cents thought on the matter.
    – Papa S.

  22. To carry open or concealed?
    It depends, I know. I have a smaller CC pistol and also a larger handgun.
    In my state you can open carry without too much drama. In Ken’s scenario I think you’d see more open carry, and unarmed people would be begin to regret being without.

    I have a good belt with my holster on one side and mag pouch on the other. In this case I might take to wearing it around the house, maybe intentionally outside in the front yard so that a few choice people on my block see me packing it…

    1. Being small framed,work outside, in South Texas (Too hot to wear a cover shirt) crawling under and over things I carry a full 9 on a separate belt so I can slide it where ever comfortable. Being very rural, do not carry open in town or concealed. If I have to be armed to go to town I do not need to be there. Do carry numerous knives, one large belt knife for skinning. I carry on the place because if in the pasture and someone gets in the house before I do, I will be out gunned with my own weapons, I at least want a fighting chance to get to a battle rifle. Most all the neighbors do the same.

      1. 👍
        I too slide my Safariland holster around, adjusting it to avoid sore spots. The rig is heavy after a few hours, a comfortable set-up is definitely a factor. Reminds me of my tool belt & pouches back in my framing days.
        ,……..
        From Selco’s latest::
        For a pretty long period, things were handled between people with brute force, and to have a weapon was important like to breathe air. When peace came, that weapon was still with people, and attitude and old habits changed very slowly. Even today every respectable home has an assault weapon here, somewhere hidden, but close at hand, even though it means 2 years in prison if you are caught…

  23. This is in part why we live in the North Georgia mountains. Low population with 80% of the land owned by the Fed’s and state. If you want to steal around this county head for the lake’s. Million dollar home’s with expensive sky boat in the boat houses. I know one house that the boat house and two sky boats are worth far more than my house and land. We are out of the way on a dirt road and you cannot see the house from the road.
    Now the interesting part in Georgia is the unspoken land and property etiquette understanding. First you don’t go on another man’s land, property, driveway or single party private road. It’s a common saying that you could get shot doing that. Mountain folks don’t take kindle to stranger’s trespassing. This doesn’t mean we don’t have a gate and posted property as we do. If I have the property locked down for four weeks no one will be getting to my front door. We are just some old folks living in the woods. Nothing to see here, move along.

    1. Sparsely populated federal land…… we have a very large chunk of land like that where we went camping recently but I was continuously reminded that this sort of property is a favorite of the drug cartels. They protect their crops with either armed guards or booby traps. They are not likely to be going on raids, but you don’t want to stumble into their turf.

      1. The rule here in National Forest and State hunting areas is to never pick up any container you see on the ground.(shake & bake).Also if you see a old bathtub in the woods move away slowly with your finger on the trigger.(hillbilly heroin) Only trouble I have had in the woods here was on the A.T. Some clown told me he was going through my pack to take what he needed. Hit him pretty hard with the muzzle of the pistol in the middle of his forehead. From the ground he told me it was against the law to carry on the A.T. In my younger days he would have disappeared, must be getting soft in my old age.

        1. Ha! A thief is telling you you’re doing something illegal! I’d remind him that theft is illegal, anywhere.

  24. An old war story to add to Dennis’s fine example is how 4 hungry guys attempted to take my food in the Sierra Backcountry after their food was taken by a black bear within a National Park:

    As I sat on a rock digging out the big bag of granola to hand to these guys sitting 10-15 yards away, one of the party states: “You know, we outnumber you. We can bum rush you and take ALL of your food.”

    Out came the Smith and Wesson Chief Special which only holds 5 shots. The one with the big mouth said: “You’re not supposed to have a gun in a N.P.” to which my response was to bring out my flat badge.

    I was several months off of my first OIS ( Officer Involved Shooting ). but I was young enough to only be shaving 3x per week. I sat there and told them what I was going to do if they decided to rush me: First I would put one in the gut of the one with the biggest mouth since he was closest and stated his bad intention. Then I would gut shoot the rest of them still running towards me in turn. So, there we sit. 18 miles away from the nearest trailhead with being gut shot. Do you think you would make it out alive?

    We all walked out together and I even bought lunch for them. I had their driver’s licenses on me when I turned them over to my uniformed counterparts. As we parted ways, I reminded them that I now knew where they lived.

    All 4 of these guys had no wants and warrants. They had gone for 48+ hours without food. They had steady jobs in the city and several of them said they were married. The veneer of civilization is very thin. How would these guys be after going without food for 7 days or 2 weeks?

    In the aftermath of the situation, I have upgraded my firepower to a compact 9mm that holds at least 7 rounds with spare magazines. I still practice on multiple targets these days and can place bullet on steel plate #3 before the first plate hits the ground at 10 yards.

    On that day, I think they sensed that I would pull the trigger on them with no hesitation or regrets. That kind of confidence does not come easy but I still use it each day at my present job in a locked psych facility.

  25. I have a “Scrolling LED Sign” that I designed and programmed several years ago. It can be activated remotely via a motion detector, or by me from inside my home. The sign will either be hanging inside the glass front door, or outside. The message is as follows:

    “Why are you here ? – – Do you have some food to share? – If so, leave it by the door – I have none to share and am very hungry! XXX XXX XXX down the road has a lot of food and supplies. Please GO AWAY! I have nothing inside worth dying for -”

    I live in a remote, rural area, and know a few neighbors, so MIGHT share with one of them. The XXX XXX XXX in the message relates to an establishment that I will not reveal . The last statement in the message will no doubt upset some folks here – Too Bad – that is how it is. Hopefully the situation will never come to that. We do have a “Castle Law” here by the way.

  26. I guess we could all learn a lesson from people in many other countries. What do they do to lessen the risks related to home invasion type crimes? They build walls around their home compounds. All you see on many narrow streets are solid walls which is a pretty good indicator that the occupants want privacy – so if someone climbs over a ten foot wall, you know they have bad intentions. Rich people in this country have and are increasingly using this method to avoid confrontation – is this where we are headed – build our own self imposed prisons?

    1. A walled home is the standard of all Classical civilizations in history. Greeks, Romans, etc… Fact is, walls worked then, and they work now. In these ancient times, when there were no telephones, or dispatched police, and no guns, and really poor fire departments, one used people proof, fireproof, walls. Just try to live in a home with block walls and fireproof roofing, and make a wall between the street and your home’s entry.

      1. Too bad when people came to America to find freedom, we find that it will not last and in about 200 years, history is about to repeat – guess I better start my walls.

          1. My home is my castle. I may be a little short of boiling oil but, with the high gun ports, I will be able to deliver some lead when fired upon. It may not be “Mesada” but I think it will hold off the hordes long enough that they will move onto soft targets. :) I think three months should thin the herd enough, especially in the winter.

          2. A siege works both ways in a survival situation. Inside, you have what the outside wants..and needs. If you choose to go outside the walls, you become one of THEM..and must act and respond as they do. Which means, only the food you can carry, the water you can find, and the shelter you hack out each day. Simple fact is, if you are not capable of leaping over logs, and rolling around in the dirt, and hiking miles through hostiles….then there is no reason to abandon your walls…even if you eventually loose the siege. There is no reason to die exhausted in the field, when your defensive position behind your walls allows you the very best chance…of all the chances…you have. You can always get out…especially if you designed your property that way. But, once you flee your fortress…along with your aged wife in tow…and your bad knees…you immediately become the walking dead.

    2. hermit us – true dat!

      Spent years in a number of countries, some near the very bottom of the U.N.’s Human Development Index. Everyone lives behind walls from wealthy individuals in their mansions to the poorest extended family/micro-village. Once property is acquired the first thing is to build the wall. Then dig the well, plant the garden and orchard, build the house, livestock pens, cooking shack, whatever.

      Walls are as tall as possible, made from bricks or blocks, topped with broken glass, or barbed wire. In the tropics often covered by bougainvillea, nature’s concertina wire. As soon as those walls are up, the property is guarded by hired guards or family members. They are not prisons; instead, they take the place of inadequate civil protection (rule of law, law enforcement resources, civil society, reliable communications).

      Inside the walls children play safely, livestock are secure, gardens grow, the elderly are at peace, and caretakers can go about the business of cleaning, laundry, cooking, etc. without criminal interference.

      We are fortunate that our protective walls are largely invisible – 911, local taxation to support the LEOs, a generally agreed upon set of social behaviors, and the will and means to address violators.

      The crazies, those who demonstrate that violence is their first reaction to political frustration, and the amoral are on their way to changing that.

      Was it Frost that opined that good fences make good neighbors? Some days I wish I had a wall instead.

  27. I live in a condo mostly consisting of well retired people (aged well into retirement, median age 78, not the freedom 55 gang). I find this home is the most civilised part of my city, province and nation. They have old fashioned values and do not use illegal drugs. We pay for it in the condo fees but I like this segregated housing as it keeps out the potheads, the crackheads, the cocaine freaks and the meth heads. I call it my castle. However we have had people try to invade the castle and some people have let strangers piggy back into the building or used fake stories to get buzzed in. I would recommend senior type condos for the over 55 especially single women or women living alone, as well as the aged. There is a group mentality that helps to maintain a fortress environment. I lived alone in a townhouse and sold it due to the feeling of insecurity. We report all illegal activities or suspected ones to the police. As society degenerates I prefer to self-segregate with those who share my values. Several ethnic groups live here but we are all older. Many people have alarm systems or stickers from previous alarm systems on their unit doors. We are nosy neighbours when it comes to strangers or suspicious activities. Our live in superintendent is younger and fit so he would be a good first line of defence. All suspicious events get posted on our bulletin board with the CCTV type camera photos posted.

  28. To hermit us:

    If not the building of walls, I believe the intent of this article is to get one started to think of possibilities both positive and negative. The best deterrent to a small group of invaders is distance out of line-of-sight which you may already have. ( based upon your handle of hermit us.)

    For Dennis and my self, I told a story from my past to illustrate how thin the veneer of civilization can be when 4 hungry guys are without food for 48 hrs. Dennis told a story of mob/group mentality and the potential ways that people may try to gain access to your home by crossing the thresh hold without invitation.

    For myself, somebody crossing the thresh hold of my home UNINVITED is where I draw the line. The weapons are out with a round in the chamber and safety off. For the sake of reminders: Most of the crime statistics from California indicated that home invasions were being conducted against older people who have amassed a certain amount of material wealth. This is roughly the same demographic as most of us that read and contribute to this site.

    The invaders are not all stupid. Many of the raids are planned and they know what they are going in for when they plan their assault. One young mother years ago had to shoot a home invader who came in for drugs because the invaders spotted a hospice nurse and just knew the home contained opiates for pain. ( the husband had died of cancer short time before the invasion.). Lesson: By the time the barbarians are at your gate, you have already been pre scouted and selected.

    I am with Canadian in that I live in a neighborhood where over 50% of us are older with young families sprinkled in. We have a neighborhood association and we share common values. Most of us choose to live here as opposed to a distant mountain top retreat. I am now over 55 and my wife will be joining that group in a few years. ( yes, I robbed the cradle years ago when we got married…no apologies here.).

    Here in the lower 48, most of us within our little surburbistan are armed within our own homes. There are lockboxes and security cabinets to keep little ones away from these tools but the most important defense against the home invasion is attitude that you will survive this event if an aggressor crosses your front or back door threshold to your home. ( whether you have a handgun, shotgun or chef’s knife from the wood block in the kitchen.)

    For more info on how to prep for possibility of home invasion, check out Mas Ayoob’s website under the category of home invasion. He addresses some concerns like how to phone it in to 911 operators and how to prepare for responding officers. ( tell the operator that home invasion is taking place. Have a house key attached to a cyalume stick ready to toss out a door or window for arriving officers, find out the first name of the responding officer/primary contact person. They will know that you are armed when they respond so be prepared to lay down your weapon when the very nervous officer arrives. )

    1. Calirefugee Armed home invasion is one of my nightmares. From what I’ve studied they are savagely quick and violent ONCE they get inside your home. If your going for a self defense weapon it must be at hand and loaded. The loaded rifle in the next room better be your retreat to the safe room movement. Thus my thought is slowing their access to the house to give us reaction time and get non-combatants in a safe room.

      Most of us cannot afford a glassed topped block wall and I suspect the neighborhood would look poorly at that. Would you be willing to quickly harden your home if a short term SHTF scenario actually happened?

      Pre SHTF there is a few things we can do with longer screws in our doors and locks, alarms and such with out triggering the neighbors. Also retrofitting one room as a safe room with exterior door replacing the interior door and perhaps replacing sheet rock with a composite of (from outside to interior) sheet rock, plywood, standard framing with pea gravel, plywood and then sheetrock. While the exterior door is not small arms proof nor would be the 2 X 4’s in the framing the pea gravel would stop small arms pretty well. A cell phone, portipotty, water, food and a shotgun would be nice.

      During SHTF more stout but publicly noticeable hardening is to measure out your windows (measure twice cut once) for plywood covers and or welded wire screens with 2 X 3 planks and screws to quickly attach in a dangerous situation? Adding an layer of plywood and a top to bottom middle 2 X 4 support beam for the plywood to protect that sliding glass door or extra layer of plywood cut and screwed to your doors to strengthen them. Clearly a cordless drill with spare battery would be handy for quick install.

      BTW the IDEA is to prepare these items and store them away for quick deployment because I strongly doubt you will find welded wire and plywood easy or cheap when SHTF. Ask the Hurricane folks about that.

      Garage doors are too easy to force open unless you add extra locking and if you have a glass window there premeasured welded wire panel screwed in.

      Thoughts? Hope this helps

  29. Don’t wanna be off topic….but
    I think neighbors will react to such a situation with you as you have established yourself in the past…..
    So & so helped us in the past…maybe this time of need also.
    So & so was an a…. to us for whatever reason….we won’t even bother. Outsiders….that have no clue on the type of person you are, are a different problem.
    Believe it or not, I’m the area Jack.
    You steal cut wood from my field edge, I’ll track you down and make you return it. Trespass on our property, I will make you wish you never met me. Dump trash, deer remains on our road, your cleaning up the 1/4 mile section or your trash ends up in your yard. Shining deer after hours. Use my drive as a thru way instead of the road…..yeah.
    If u need legitimate help, I’m more that helpful…..with caution.
    Word gets around fast. And I take no crap.

  30. I guess it’s just me, but wow! Did this topic go off the rails? Let me give it a title more fitting the responses “do unto your neighbor before he does you”.

    1. Old Chevy,
      It is not just you. I think it went off the rails and into the river. Something inside of me said, “Just walk away, walk away”. So I did. Think everyone needs to check themselves and calm down a bit. JMHO.

    2. Old Chevy-on a RR
      Saw your comment under mine.
      Was just wondering if that was meant reguards to me or ???
      If so no prob.
      I’ll explain myself
      If it wasn’t let me know.
      Thanks

      1. No, it was just a comment in general, about some of the trigger-happy talk goes. And I understand the sentiment, I go off with that stuff too where only my four walls hear it. I’ve always felt kindly towards your thoughtful posts, and pretty much about everyone’s, not directed to any one individual. I just don’t find the “I’m going to blow their head off” Rambo stuff at all moving the topic in a constructive direction.

        1. Old Chevy
          Thanks for your reply…..mind at ease now. I’m always on the defensive.

          “I’ve always felt kindly towards your thoughtful posts, ”
          Lol
          Really??? Who the heck are you fooling?
          Dang,
          I was gonna xplain me self.
          Stay safe, Chevyman

          1. Joe C: You mention that you tracked them down. I’ve done that, and I just don’t condone it. You could get yourself into a lot of problems with that. In general I reject acting on revenge. Revenge is an incredibly powerful force and it is dangerous to entertain it. I think it is up there with the sex drive and hunger as far as instinct goes. That is why it says “revenge is mine saith the Lord”. It’s his work, not ours. You just have to get yourself to think and evaluate “is it worth it” to seek recompense. Sometimes being a man means standing down, and it just isn’t easy.

          2. Old Chevy
            I hear ya and understand. I’ve spend years being a forgiving man a soft man…and being trampled on for ‘being nice’.
            I know my repercussions might have a draw back…, But I’ll be damned if anyone takes advantage of me…..any more.
            My examples are not of revenge.
            It is of that of respect of others. And what is theirs.
            Example
            That truck that went thru my drive??..
            I followed past them.and cut them off to a stop before they t- boned me.
            That same truck I saw several times a day rolling our road.
            I confronted them asking why my driveway was a thru way.
            “Looking for a friend’s house”. Three males in a single cab truck.
            Cocky passenger says
            ” You need to be careful of who you mess with”
            I said
            ‘Ohh yeah. Should have made damn sure I had one loaded in the pipe.before I exited my vehicle.”
            Never saw that truck.again
            I don’t condone violence…..I do tolerate respect of one’s property.
            Short story.
            But like I say
            I take.no chit
            There is right and there is wrong. If they don’t understand…. I’ll make it clear to them
            Respect. Ya OChevy

          3. Joe C, I want to point out that there is a significant difference between self-defense, protecting your stuff and getting even with someone who took, or is attempting to take, you or your stuff. And good for you for tackling those situations, but those who listen to your experience and translates it into advice just might not put into action as adeptly as you have and end up finding their behind behind bars or down below. We have an understanding.
            enuff’ said.

  31. The last time you experienced a Black Swan Event, Did you know how long it would last for?

    You will never feel prepared enough when it is your job to drive toward that section of Los Angeles that is marked by pillars of dark smoke rising above a glowing skyline as the sun sets. ( substitute any city of your choice in this scenario. LA during Rodney King Act 2 was my turn at bat and, yes, I am that old.)

    In prior events, I did not have the luxury of going back to my fortified dwelling because I was living within an apartment complex. Whatever I had back home would have to do without me for the next several days. I had no idea when I was going to be relieved.

    This made it tough to be married, have any pets etc. so it is the primary reason why I joke on this site about spinning my fat cats on my wood floor these days. I like my life in a plain Jane nondescript home in the ‘burbs with minimal practical fortification.

    2 to 4 weeks is a good starting point to think about as Ken has to establish some type of limit. I would band together with some of my neighbors as I have either taught them how to shoot, clean and safely store their newly acquired weapons or I have fixed their weapons already.

    It is always interesting and funny to read about an event that I went through years later by an investigative journalist or aspiring history major. Time gives one a false sense of perspective saying it was not a “big thing”. For those of us on the ground and the residents: It was real enough.

  32. This all reminds me of a hog roast that we went to at a church event. Several volunteers spent the night tending the roaster to have it ready for the lunch.
    We were served potato salad, some beans, and about a tablespoon of the pork. It seems that the volunteers needed to taste the roasting hog quite a bit to make sure it was done just right.

  33. How about handing out tainted food….. I’m so evil.

    They won’t comeback for more……maybe just causing a little diarrhea…LOL

    1. Just can a bunch of various critters, like lizards and field mice…leaving the lizards whole, and the fur still on the mice. Pack the jars for best effect, when they are viewed. You know, lizard hands and eye balls, tormented mice faces…etc. Use your imagination. When the bad beggars come, show them your shining jars of “survival” food in your staged pantry…and never quit talking in excited tones…about how much money you saved, and how you get used to the taste, and such. You could even pack fake jars filled with what looks like cat, dog, skunk…etc. Just be sure to include lots of eyes and paws. Then, perfume you staged pantry with a nice musky, wet wool & sweat, bouquet.

  34. Just a thought that crossed my mind as I re-read some of the comments about how we plan to treat visitors or folks seeking help/refuge after/during a shtf event. This thought brought a smile to my face as I looked back over my life.

    I’ve had several family dogs in my 68 years. Some that I hand picked as pups after I looked them over closely, scrutinizing them for certain characteristics I felt would make them a good choice. I’ve had only three what I would consider my perfect dog companion. The ones that I shed tears over when they passed away. These three were the ones that just showed up one day, either dumped as unwanted puppies, or just looking for a home. These three vagabond dogs, showing up uninvited at different times in my life, became my best friend, companion, and protector that would without hesitation, lay down his life protecting me or my family.

    Something to ponder. Just an old man thinking out loud.

  35. People need to learn to communicate without a chip on their shoulder. Lots of people cannot tolerate anyone to disagree with them, they must always be RIGHT, why they behave this way I cannot understand, it’s like a personal assault to them. Some people just cannot handle the truth. They start to scream and run around the yard and wave their hands in the air. Just imagine how these people will behave in a real SHTF scenario??

    There is a great deal to be learned about someone based on how they handle adversity no matter how small or large the obstacle.

    I don’t see how my statements could offend anyone, if it does, just know this post isn’t about you. People in general.

  36. Thanks Dennis:

    When you let the dog or cat enter your life, you never know which one will touch your heart. That is why I still support our local Humane Society which has been the source of my present cat herd.

    I was in my 20’s returning home after a 16 hr shift with my gear in a duffle bag when I would stop and scratch the head of the neighbors cat on my way into my apartment. Then and there, I knew that I wanted to settle down in my own place and spin fat cats on the wood floor when off duty.

  37. I know this is off-topic, but nonetheless here it goes. Have you considered how you would act in a hostage situation? Do you know if you could fall victim to the ‘Stockholm syndrome”? If your home was invaded by an escapee and held you and your family hostage, or say if you were in a real-life “Dog Day Afternoon” event, how would you behave?
    This is a scenario that I think is one of the worst one can be in and I sometimes wonder what I would do and how to prepare for it if it should occur.

    1. Old Chevy it’s not really off topic. It is a security situation. It’s a situation where you hope you have neighbors who keep an eye on you and you have mutual pact of aid and assistance. In the situation you described personal heroics will get you and your family slaughtered or worse.

      I would think having agreed times of checking in or changing of the “Weather Flag” or such would let you know that in so many hours Neighbor will become concerned. You would need “Safe Words” to communicate if your under gunpoint to communicate things are not OK.

      In normal times the neighbor is to call the police to handle the situation. In SHTF your on your own. Neither are the best situation as a botched rescue could cause the tragedy your trying to resolve.

      Old Chevy in that scenario would having a safe room for folks to flee into possibly be an advantage in situations where the “Escapee” could not control all the people at first? For the kids to flee into a normal interior door bedroom would be a simple Kick and Open situation vs. a safe room. What do you think? Did I misunderstand your post idea?

      1. NH: you answered as best you could with my what I gave. The subject is about avoiding the psychological thing that happens to hostages, the Stockholm syndrome. But thanks for your reply, some good points to be made. Another thought; I thing those “a child is in this room” stickers to aid firefighters also aid perverts.

    2. Old Chevy
      I have been held hostage at gun point. Thank God they were highly intoxicated and I had a chance to run. That’s one reason I always carry, even at home. Even when I go to bed my pistol is still within reach.

  38. I can think of a couple of things that might help in this scenario. You would probably want to have a good supply of food that you don’t have to cook, especially outdoors where the scent of it would carry and alert everyone nearby that you had grub. Also you may want to keep some baggy clothes on hand so it looks like you are losing weight just like probably most people will be doing in real life. I think you should try to keep as low a profile as possible. One idea is if you are in contact with others you might want to throw out things like: I’m not feeling well, not sure what is wrong with me. That might cause others to give you a wide berth if they think you have some kind of illness. I think being gray man is best and if you must interact, I would try to do so outside my home.

Leave a Reply

>>COMMENT POLICY
>>USE OPEN FORUM for Off-Topic conversation

Name* use an alias