The Walking Dead (Level 3 Preparedness)

(image: Rick Grimes | The Walking Dead TV series)

The Walking Dead? Am I talking about the hit TV show now in its 10th season on amc? Not exactly, though one could draw parallels to what I’m about to suggest…

First, “Prepping and Preparedness 3” is a level of being prepared for up to 1 year. It’s a hypothetical low probability but very high impact event or set of events.

Check the series overview for my logic and reasoning why I split it the way that I did.

(jump to series overview with links to other articles in the series)

Who Are The Walking Dead?

Zombies. Human zombies. A Level-3 societal meltdown will result in “walking dead” zombies.

While it’s difficult to realistically think about, the reality will be LOTS of desperate, then dying, and eventually dead people.

If we were to lose our critical infrastructure systems due to an event or events which collapse our modern way of life —

I don’t care where you live during this event, in my estimation you WILL (eventually) be dealing with some of this (or much of this). It’s not going to be easy, or pleasant, to say the least.

First, The Zombies

The unprepared, and even some, or many of the prepared (up to level-2) will begin to run out of critical life-sustaining supplies. Water. Food. In that order. Distribution is down. Infrastructure non-functional.

The cities descend into chaos first. Quickly followed by suburbia.

Imagine (and multiply this over and over…) — a million city people without running water. Seriously. Think about that. While there are few limited events that could actually cause that (which is not the point of this article). But “if”. Oh. My. G.

It is debatable what percentage may eventually end up dying in place versus those who flee their area and become the walking dead in search of water and food. My instinct is that a majority will not go far from where they consider “home”. When they’ve waited to the point of weakness and extreme desperation, it will be too late to effectively venture out. Though even those who do, will not readily find long lasting relief, if at all.

I haven’t defined the level-3 event. But one presumption is the affected geographical area extends beyond just a region or two. It’s large. Lets say mostly nationwide. Will other nations come in to the rescue (opportunistic invasion – or on purpose)? Maybe. Maybe a bit of relief for “some” who acquiesce to the “invaders”? But maybe the event is approaching global. Then what? Okay, I’m digressing beyond the intent here. Point being, a level-3 event is not counting on “rescue” or partial restoration for 3 months to a year. People will rapidly become desperate.

Zombies During The Outset

So the zombies will be out and about to an extent, especially during the outset of the breakdown. Given the widespread nature of level-3, it won’t take long for reality to set in.

Most people will be fairly civil at first. There will be those who help others and share their supplies with the zombies knocking on their neighbor’s and friend’s doors. However those who share will also run out (and run out quicker). Then what?

Zombies Turn Violent

At some point the zombies stop knocking on doors. They start kicking them in. It gets violent. Sporadic at first. Then worse. Obviously the cities fair horribly. Suburbia also descends into danger. Rural too. Just not as much.

Those prepared for level-3 will be on high alert. Security of utmost importance. Hopefully being “gray” and not standing out as a target.

The danger will be the zombies.

Some may be smart zombies who will pass by a well-secured home looking for easier prey. For example, Dennis (a contributor here) said, In good times or bad, people who would take what’s yours will consider the risk. That is why shootings in “gun free zones” are common, and shootings at “gun shows” are exceedingly rare.

Eventually though, zombies will start dying.

When The Zombies Start Dying

I don’t even like writing about it within the context of potential reality. I would much rather write a novel – at least it’s pretend…

But here we are. Level-3. Considering the mass die-off. Not pleasant. Wow I hope something like this never happens. If we could just control the Sun (and it’s potential ‘Carrington Event’ flares). And if we could just magically disappear the technology of weaponized EMP. I’m digressing again.

What’s going to happen when all these millions of people start dying? Answer: not much. They’re not going to be buried (maybe a few at first – or someone you may know if you have the ability to get the job done).

There’s going to be a lot of bodies. And disease. And disgusting smelly horror.

What Happens When A Body Decomposes?

Found this info doing ordinary internet-search. It’s gross. But it is also reality.

  • 24-72 hours after death — the internal organs decompose.
  • 3-5 days after death — the body starts to bloat and blood-containing foam leaks from the mouth and nose.
  • 8-10 days after death — the body turns from green to red as the blood decomposes and the organs in the abdomen accumulate gas.
  • Several weeks after death — nails and teeth fall out. 
  • 1 month after death — the body starts to liquefy.

Insects arrive to the scene very quickly as they are really sensitive to the smell of decomposition. Flies will lay eggs in skin openings and in entrances to the body; nose, ears and mouth. Maggots will hatch and start eating the decomposing flesh.

Horrible Smell.
All of the breakdown and digestion of the body’s cells are causing gases to be released; these gases are the what give bodies their terrible smell.  This stinking liquid attracts more flies, beetles and other insects.

Between 20 to 50 days after death, the body begins to dry out as all of the remaining flesh is consumed by insects. Maggots can no longer feed on the dry body because they can’t chew through the tough tissue. This is where the beetles take over. They can chew through the remaining tendons and ligaments, until all that is left is bone and hair.

Between 50 to 365 days after death, moths and bacteria consume the hair. All that is left is bone; it can last indefinitely as long as there are no predators around.

That Was Gross!

I know. And “if” this type of event happens, it will be unimaginably gross.

But it looks like after 4 to 8 weeks of the massive die-off, the smell will have gone. Thereafter becoming skeleton over the next several months.

The Takeaway

Well, I suppose the takeaway is to wrap your head around the possibility of zombies in your area of operation, and eventual mass die-off.

I suspect the first 3 months of the event will be the worst. At the 6 month mark, most of the remaining will be dead (unless there’s a mass rescue).

Isn’t it weird to think about how modern civilization is so dependent upon our modern infrastructure? Literally!

No electricity – we’re dead.
No water – we’re dead.
Bare grocery store shelves – we’re dead.

Unless of course, we’re prepared.

End of story.

Continue reading: When The Grid Goes Down It’s Going To Be ALL LOCAL

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79 Comments

  1. Scary to contemplate indeed. Do you have any thoughts on abandoning your home and hiding out in a secret bunker on your property for 3-6 months after a SHTF event? I feel like defending a home against a potential onslaught would be impractical / unfeasible for most people. Perhaps making it appear that you bugged out, but actually being safely hidden underground and out of sight right on your own property until the coast is clear may be a good alternative.

    1. You will have to do what you think is best.Going under ground really scares me.
      It won’t take much for the scavengers above ground if they discover your
      bunker to turn it into your tomb.
      If possible try to put together a mutual assistance group .Now.

  2. my girl friend and i live in a city FOR NOW and IF something like civil war breaks out we are bugging out asap i mean in the middle of the night if need be to a friends out in SMALLER town we live in west ny state so water aint a problem and its around 50 miles away from the city we are in now WOULD we survive nobody really knows for sure but we are a LOT better supplied than many thats for damn sure do we have enough to survive for a year or better nope hopefully we never have to find out

    1. Kevin,
      I was in the same boat. If you live in the city I wouldn’t be concerned with 1 years worth of supplies, you’ll just be feeding the zombies. You couldn’t possibly bug out with all those supplies, way too much stuff. We lived in Rochester for years and moved out 5 yrs ago. I was prepped to bug out (or so I thought). We are closing in on 1 years worth of supplies, now.
      There are many things to work out first, before you bug out.
      1. 50 miles is a lot on foot. It can be done, but even if you can do 10mi. a day, that’s 5 days on the road. During a weekend in the summer. Take your BOB and hike with it along the road. You’ll see what I mean. That is a lot of food and water on your back. Do you have a bike and/or hand trailer/wagon, if the roads are blocked? Work smarter, not harder.
      2. Think of as many routes as you could possible think of, to get out of the city (skip the highways). Rail roads, utility trails, all possible routes.
      3. Where you are bugging out to: Are they preppers?
      4. Do they know you are coming? Do they want you to come?
      5. If they are ok with you being there, do you have any food/supplies stashed there, so you aren’t mooching off them?
      Just some things to consider…

      1. the place we would be heading i have known the guy since grade school and we talk on the phone at least every other day he is one of my best friends and we have a pretty good sized suv so we a have a fair amount of room to carry stuff and i sure as hell aint gonna be walking all the way i have already plotted out diff ways to get there as i know this area like the back of my hand i drove for a living for some years i sure as hell WOULD NOT be taking express ways i have routes already plotted out in my head as for have supplies along the way im not so sure about that but its sure a good idea

        1. Kevin,
          Sounds like you are on it. Good job.
          I have practiced a fake bug out with my 50lb. BOB. I walked with it 8.5 mi. at the end of last June, when it was 95º. Ya, it was hot, but I did it. I also brought along a note pad, to take note of the things that I didn’t pack, that I should have. It was a good learning experience for me. I want to try it this winter also just to see. We here in Western NY have to consider the 2 sides of a year (hot/cold).
          Keep on, keepin on…

          1. Jabba, won’t to share what your thoughts were on what you should have brought?

    2. Kevin
      Best bet is to create several caches. Think climate controlled storage lockers in small towns along your evac rout. Just a 5×5 locker ($35/mo.) will work. Take yourself a good crowbar along or any large rock will due. in most cases if we are in level 3, smashing in a window to get into an abandoned storage building (hopefully) will be no biggie. Get yourself a crappy / ugly sh_t-stained couch dump it in the unit. Then gut it and stash your supplies in there by concealing your cache within the storage locker. Do this in several locations Cache A B C D… etc. Get yourself a really good pad lock that is cut resistant.

      Yes your cache can be raided and stolen but it still gives you a fighting chance vs. just your wanker in your hands.

      This will help you get to where you are going and also give you numerous resupply options in your AO.

      Transport – 50 miles on a Bicycle can be covered in 1 day. keeping your bo bags to 20lbs would be best while on a bike.

      1. Good Ideas White Cracker, walking for 5 days and trying to hide and sleep 5 nights is crazy in a SHTF situation. Everyday things will get crazier as more and more folks decide it IS really the End of the World….

        The bicycle is a powerful tool for this. Add a mono-wheel trailer for it and carrying 40+ pounds of gear in it is easy. I have used a mono-wheel trailer for bicycle camping many times in trail riding. There is no where I can hike aside from a swamp that I cannot ride.

        Please don’t use a two wheeled bike trailer, I know you can get them cheap BUT your stuck on Roads and I want the option to go off road and forest trails. The mono-wheeled trailer will go through anything your handle bars can fit.

        I would add either Muffin Brand solid tires or tire repair kit and tubes all with slime sealant in them. ALSO a 8-10 inch bolt cutter for any locks or chain link fencing I need to pass through. Walking with that bolt cutter would be harsh as they are heavy.

  3. We are rural, nearest neighbors are 1/8 mile away. Most people on our dead end road are in the older age range, 60-90. There are couple of gardens and 5-6 couples in the 35-60 age group. Nearest larger (33,000) population is 45 miles away.
    It is difficult to comprehend a zombie scenario but it is definitely a subject for discussion with your spouse.I would not want to shoot a neighbor, or anyone for that matter. Better to discuss it now in a time of calm and try to develop some plan to work through a situation like that.

    1. Bluesman it sounds like your in a fairly decent situation IF you can avoid HUNGER turning your neighbors into Threats.

      Going to be a long post sorry. I’m going to address how to form effective teams from mostly non-preppers.

      Leadership is the issue as I see it. You need everybody to accept SHTF HAS Occurred. Normalcy bias can kill or enslave your neighborhood to Zombies or Thugs. Criminals are not all stupid, some have plans for SHTF as in heading for the rural areas and becoming a Warlord.

      Then you need to form up teams to block your road access and establish fighting observation points. Fighting OP’s need to be able to support each other. Look over other ways to access your area and block them. Barbed wire is useful BUT ANY Obstacles WITHOUT covering fire is only an Annoyance. Everyday you improve your OP’s.

      Never underestimate the value of a well made fighting position using sandbags and logs. Even a wheel chair bound person willing to AIM and Shoot can keep a LOT of able bodied attackers honest. Unless your facing Berserkers or Strung out Meth Heads having a effective shooter knocking down folks around you WILL stop the assault. If you stomp them properly they may choose to move onward.

      Communications. As simple as issued whistles and a laminated code card to say Trouble (3 long blasts)HERE, 7 people (7 short blasts) and such.

      Even the lowly 22 long rifle using cheap bulk 36 grain hollow points can stop a human if you put 2+ rounds into a leg. The IDF used Ruger 10-22’s to shoot rock throwers in the shin, breaking their leg. Nobody can charge you with a crippled leg. A 22 rifle zeroed for 50 yards has about a 6 inch drop at 100 yards. That means aiming for center mass is a groin or leg hit.

      Night vision is nice but smooth tripwires at shin height (not barbed because YOUR folks might meet up with it and barbed wire injuries are dangerous with out an ER) WILL trip up folks even if they are wearing Nigh Vision Goggles. I used to treat Night Ninja injuries at Fort Bragg all the time. Research low light hunting scopes. Not Night Vision but Pretty darn good if you have any starlight or a moon unless your a smoker.

      Find out peoples skills and talents. Look to your assets. Do you have a Hand Pump well or a Solar Well setup? No water means everybody’s dead in a few days.

      Establish Sanitation. Outhouses require proper siting and setting up even African style Tip-Tip hand washers will do a LOT to prevent disease from destroying your neighborhood.

      Establish a Sickbay as so to have Medical Isolation when someone gets ill. Helps keep the flu from over running your whole team. Bed Rest, tea and not passing it on is FAR better than keeping them at “Home” spreading it around.

      Not every neighborhood has a Combat Medic and a Nurse at hand but some folks have talent in treating injuries. Some are good with McGyvering, some are great gardeners. Some have the talent of handling Sanitation properly.

      To keep HUNGER from turning neighbors into Threats, If you were to have set aside a few barrels of horse grade feed corn, Wheat and dry field beans all around 10 dollars a 50 pound bag. Compared to Honeyville’s 50 pounds of dent corn at 40.00 a bag well… Horses as you may know have delicate stomachs and horse people are VERY Careful what they feed them. I’ve eaten Horse Feed when south of the boarder many times. Mainstay of the locals there.

      DON’T buy Deer Corn, often moldy and dangerous to process into Masa and hominy with lye from clean wood ash as whole corn was processed in the 1800’s.

      I just looked up the calories of dried yellow corn and it’s 117 calories and 4 grams of protein per ounce so a 50 pound bag is 93,600 calories! At a nominal 2000 calorie man/day diet that’s 46.8 man days, NOT that I’s suggest eating only corn but a good basis for survival.

      Give us this day our Daily Cornbread? Cornbread made with ground beans cooked in was standard field food when I visited Columbia South America. Tasty.

      If someone has chickens and rabbits your even in better shape. A cow would be gravy as long as you have ability to breed it. AI straws as long as you know how to do it properly and a working freezer, otherwise a Bull is also needed.

      Bluesman with Leadership, enough food even if not steaks and establishing common goals (sometimes called getting Buy In) you can give yourself and your neighborhood a fighting chance.

        1. I believe I recall something about eating an all corn diet causing some kind of condition. I think it was from the survival mom blog and the corn she mentioned was popcorn. Sorry but don’t recall the details.

      1. Good Point Mrs. U. lack of Vitamin B causes a nasty disease called Pellagra with sometimes lethal neurological damage, brain damage and deficiencies cause a lot of nasty symptoms.

        Interesting to look them up. Seems a LOT of Americans are deficient in B vitamins.

        Pellagra was called the “Southern Disease” after the Civil War because dent corn was a mainstay of the poor folks diet BUT they did NOT “Dirty it up” like the Indians by cooking it with clean wood ash. With out treating the corn with Lime or lye from clean wood ash the B vitamins in corn are NOT Available, thus the diseases.

        Lye or lime treated dent corn makes Masa and Hominy a excellent food source. Adding dried beans to that diet makes a pretty complete diet ASIDE from LACK of Vitamin C.

        Thus the common use of Peppers and Tomato Products in Mexican food. A decent source of Vitamin C.

        The “Walking Dead” will be malnourished and vectors for interesting diseases you and I don’t want in our households. Proper nutrition, hydration, decent sleep and Sanitation will help your Immune System keep you healthy.

  4. The most recent large (natural) disaster that we can examine is Hurricane Katrina. In New Orleans alone, about 80% of the 1.3 million residents evacuated when the govt made announcements. These people were moved to other areas, many went to other states.

    For those who chose to stay, Mayor Nagin offered several shelters for people to seek refuge — among them was the Louisiana Superdome and it housed about 25,000 people (maybe more because we all saw over-crowding).

    Evacuation notices were too slow for nursing homes to arrange for the mandated bus services. Many of the people in those nursing homes were left, unattended. Prisons and jails were abandoned because staff wanted to get to their own homes. how many prisoners died from being jailed and abandoned??

    Tens of thousands of displaced residents were bussed to other areas (Texas, Kentucky, West Va, etc). The Katrina migration, after the disaster, is probably the largest migration in America in 50+ years. Here’s an excerpt from Wikipedia:

    “Two weeks after the storm, more than half of the states were involved in providing shelter for evacuees. By four weeks after the storm, evacuees had been registered in all 50 states and in 18,700 zip codes—half of the nation’s residential postal zones. Most evacuees had stayed within 250 miles (400 km), but 240,000 households went to Houston and other cities over 250 miles (400 km) away and another 60,000 households went over 750 miles (1,200 km) away.”

    The Katrina death toll was around 1,800 and about 150 people still remain ‘missing.

    Wikipedia states these figures:
    A 2008 report by the Disaster Medicine and Public Health Preparedness journal indicates that 966 deaths can be directly attributed to the storm in Louisiana, including out of state evacuees, and another 20 indirectly (such as firearm-related deaths and gas poisoning). Due to uncertain causes of death with 454 evacuees, an upper-bound of 1,440 is noted in the paper. A follow-up study by the Louisiana Department of Health & Hospitals determined that the storm was directly responsible for 1,170 fatalities in Louisiana.

    What we can take away from Hurricane Katrina is that the government systems were too slow to “act” on the possibility of this tropical system becoming a Category 4-5 Hurricane — their delays cost lives.

    We also know that tens of thousands of people chose to shelter-in-place, for whatever reason. This decision cost lives.

    We saw that the temporary conditions at the Superdome and Convention Center were sub-human, and there were 10 deaths that occurred in that short time period (one was a homocide, one suicide, and one drug overdose). No doubt there was violence such as assaults, rapes, etc.

    My takeaway from Katrina was that the vast MAJORITY of disaster assistance activity was completely led by government systems of ‘authority.’ From the evacuation announcements, to the refuge center assignments, to the medical and rescue assistance, to food and water, and the basic care of almost every disaster victim — all services and ‘plans’ came from somewhere within a government system. VERY FEW PEOPLE COULD FUNCTION INDEPENDENTLY.

    In general, people have been TRAINED to look for some type of authority figure or government Nanny to tell them what to do. This takes place in daily lives and during times of desperation/disaster. Katrina is a perfect example of how government officials failed because they were NOT well trained (or well versed) to handle a natural disaster. Herd management cost lives because a disaster was not managed as effectively as it could have been. And many people were not prepared to think or act independently with a Hurricane (in hurricane country!).

    After Katrina, many people became the walking dead — except many were stranded dead, on their rooftops, or in their attics. They were WAITING for help. Without water, food, and any means to use the bathroom, the rooftop-dead were waiting for someone else, and they were putting every bit of “rescue” into the hands of someone else, someone they didn’t even see or know! Once again, these people were helpless to help themselves

    1. Thanks for the recap and the researched numbers. Now can anyone imagine Katrina, but EVERYWHERE? Or even half of everywhere? I don’t want to think about it. But for level-3, it’s best to think about it.

      1. One factor is known — many of the people in NOLA were at or near poverty level and were dependent upon government handouts. These people have been conditioned to allow the government to manage their lives.

        One article I read yesterday was about people who had been moved out of the region and had not moved back. The study was mostly about past Louisiana residents. Lots of comments from people who were complaining that they were not ‘home’ and that they didn’t have a ‘way back’ into Louisiana. Others found that there was no ‘affordable housing.’ What the study didn’t say outright was that quite a few of these people were wanting and waiting for the Nanny government to literally give them all-expenses paid to move back and give them a new home with new furnishings.

        In the past work I did, I don’t remember a large segment of the Florida population behaving in this manner before or after a hurricane. In 2005, THREE big hurricanes hit, one after the other. But of course, the demographics are different in FL than in LA. Those who were FL residents and had insurance were provided w/ settlement $$ to deal with their losses. Those who had no insurance were given FEMA assistance and their relocations weren’t ‘dead end’ locations where they didn’t come back.

        The Katrina disaster illustrates a segment of our society — with dependent, low (no) income “gimme dat” mindsets. Many are city dwellers, and unless there is intervention w/ government, they’re not going to travel far independently.

        “Golden horde”???

  5. We have lived in both far Northern states where the weather/cold and snow is a threat and now we are back in our home state of Florida where stuff like Hurricanes can cause havoc. We are out on the edge of a rural/small town. Most of the people here are ranchers/farmers/ preppers on account of Hurricanes.

    We just got a new DVD at Wally World today called “The Reliant” which is a total Prepper/Christian movie. It is based on an economic collapse of the dollar and like the Walking Dead depicts a type 3 SHTF world.

  6. I think you might be forgetting the tenacity of the human survival instinct. The lower 48 states were populated by European settlers. They didn’t drive to their destinations in motor cars, ride bicycles or ride horses or live stock. They walked. Walked thousands of miles often living off the land as they went. I propose that there will literally be thousands of zombies walking out of the cities in a survival mode. There wont be one or two turning up at your bolt hole – there will be thousands. The odd small group of marauders might be repelled but there are most likely to be huge groups and they are most likely to overcome your hide away. Either by direct assault at first or the age old method of siege.
    Your bolt hole needs to be invisible.
    Once you start defending your property the invisibility is moot. the marauders will know that here is a place that has something to hide and probably offer. You may have thousands of rounds of ammo but the invaders will have more plus patience.

    1. BoneIdle respectfully unless your dealing with Government Supported Marauders historical evidence shows that modern folks are poorly suited for walking very far scrounging their food, water shelter as they go. Ammo is heavy and little salvageable resupply is to be expected.

      Even trained Military men would have a difficult time marching as you describe.

      Ammo, batteries and food was the bulk of the pack mule load out when dismounted patrol in Afghanistan. We had vehicle (mostly Helicopters) support for food, water and Medevac resupply. I don’t expect too many unprepared Zombies to do as well.

      INSIDE the Cities where it’s but a few miles your correct MOBS of dangerous folks.

      Once past the range of the vehicle fuel supply (remember those traffic jams from EVERY Hurricane) walkers that survive EACH others anger will be either very lucky or more likely VERY Hard DANGEROUS people.

      Small marauder groups is what history shows moving around trying to survive in Civil War-SHTF situations. Everybody else hunkers down.

      1. Something to consider is also the fact that many and I mean many, Americans are physically out of shape. To set out on a long walk will probably not end well as they fall to the way side so to speak.

  7. AS far as I can research, In Washington State, there exists no RCW, or case law, on the books, that deals with aerial trespass over private property.

    Hence, If I see a drone over my private property, I will attempt to shoot it down. If, I and the owner, have issues, if he’s on my property, he’ll be asked to leave, just once, then, I will feel scared for my life, and the results will vary. I probably won’t shoot him, unless he decides to go the lethal force way, as I am always armed, always. If he’s on public property, I’m just gonna ignore him, and walk away. He’ll call the cops, and it’s anyone guess, what happens next.

    Private property, is just that, “PRIVATE”, I don’t want a drone spying on me, or filming my family, or my place. I will feel threaten, and I will deal with the threat, I will shoot it down.

    1. Hi Stand My Ground

      It’s a federal crime 18 USC 32, not a state one.

      Raining like crazy here today. Is that snow for you tonight?

      1. Anony Mee

        Ok, I did not know that, THANKS, I’ll look it up. But, I probably won’t change my MO much.

        Yea, It’s snowing. 3″ last night, decent melt today, but, now snowing,1/2 in and hour. Heavy wet snow, makes for a lot of compact snow and ice, for these IDIOTS to drive on.

        And, I gotta go to town tomorrow.!!

        One of my support dogs is failing, fast, so vet visit tomorrow. Gonna be damn hard on me, when she passes. I’m working on handling it, but, it’s gonna be tough, I LOVE that little 9lbs of fur. She’s never more than 3ft from me, and is a bed hog.

        1. 18 USC 32, WOW.! Maybe I need to re-think some of my choices.???

          Less penalty to just find to owner, and beat the snot out of him. LOL

          1. Stand

            Yeppers. Looked it up just a few months ago. Had a drone problem myself last summer.

            A few years ago a friend gave me a little box. When you push the button nothing happens. But then, cell and internet service is the pits down here in the bottom.

          2. Stand my Ground
            You would have liked my dad’s out look on this type of situation had he lived longer. That is before the commie socialist took over insuring we had less and less freedoms.
            His attitude was simple. He kept a backhoe on stand by 24/7/365 if the need should arise to eradicate the problem. Of course he had a 160+ acre ranch, problem solved. Those that wanted to push his buttons knew this…he was a tough old cookie, a smiling baby pit bull, lol.

    2. SMG. Don’t underestimate drones. Or overestimate your ability to shoot them down. I can elaborate if you have questions,

      1. LITW I am more interested in how to JAM them and thus they “Malfunction” sorry to see that buddy….

        Hard to deny you Shot it down…. Lawyers will have a field day over that.

        Any techies have any ideas that way?

        1. Me2,
          Jammers exist for this. Standard frequency for most drones I are microwave, some UHF. Gotta be careful about jamming, FAA controls the law on drones, dropping a government drone might be like shooting down an airplane. FCC will not like you jamming “their” airwaves either. Fair warning, keep her nose clean.

        1. SMG. I am not an expert on drones or firearms. Everything has its own limitations. There have been articles here about security cameras, night vision, driveway sensors, scopes, firearms etc.
          I first bought a drone for fun. Quickly found out it could be used as a tool. I have other more advanced drones now. I don’t use it for spying or anything. But now I can go out in the morning to feed the chickens. Launch a drone. Preprogrammed to fly over our entire property automatically. Then either watch it live or review the footage on an onboard SD card or on my cell phone. I can tell if anyone has crossed property lines on 4 wheelers or whatever. And also can see where the local deer/turkey etc are moving or hanging out. Once helped a neighbor find some pigs that had gotten loose.
          In so far as shooting them down. My neighbors have a private shooting club. They are In Law enforcement and ex military. Very good shooters. We had a little bet going one time or two. They said they could take out a cheap $50 drone I have. 2 shooters. 1 reload guy. 50 shells. I was able to out maneuver them, and get pics of them and their vehicles. And still do a kamikaze head shot run at one of them at the end of the bet so fast he had to drop to the ground.

          1. If you have all the standard prepper bases covered. Buy a drone. There is no other security gadget you can have, that will do what a drone can do. None….period!

        2. LITW

          Wow. They really THAT fast? 50 shots? You sure they were good on a shotgun?

          I know a guy that will take this challenge, so I’m gonna try it. Might be a eatin crow, we will see.

          Thanks Bud, I’ll let you know how it goes.

          Anyone wanna bet?

          1. SMG,
            I bet he doesn’t hit it… To erratic of a flight path even for bird shot. Most game birds fly a path at a certain speed, they don’t zig zag. I’m not condoning drones, but it can up, down, left, right all at different speeds.
            I’d like to hear what happens…

          2. It’s the altitude that makes the difference. It’s easy to have a good drone camera zoomed in and still be out of range of three and a half inch ten guage goose guns.

    3. SMG, According to FAA regs. all operators of drones MUST HAVE A PILOTS LIC. from the FAA (it’s only about 35 questions) and the drone MUST only be flown in an area where the operator can keep it under/in their view at all times. Also the drone can not be flown BELOW 400 ft. over any property.

      1. blackjack22

        BUT, shooting them down is a 20yr jail term. Beating the snot out of the operator is probation.

        Normal times, I probably won’t shoot it down, but, I will find the operator, and voice my dis-pleasure with the trespass. SHTF, I’ll shoot that sucker down in a heartbeat.

        I have the capability out to 150yds, and, I’m a good shot.

      2. None of mine are regulated by FAA.
        There is built in geo fencing to “regulate” Altitude on most. But you can change those settings with a cell phone app. Usually 500 feet. And can’t fly by airports. As to the line of site flight. I can fly without looking. Check out some utube videos. Some can fly 4 or 5 kilometers and return automatically easily.

        1. Auto return does not retrace its steps, it goes straight line back to the controller. If the are trees in the way, you crash.

          1. Not all drones. ;) One of mine has obstacle avoidance and will fly over all that stuff.

      3. You’re half right (I am FAA certified, btw). They have to keep it in line of sight and *below* 400 feet. There’s no federal rules against flying over private property although in some places there are harrassment rules at the local level. If they’re just flying over and not loitering they will at most get a slap on the wrist in that case.

        Lots of misunderstandings about drones, especially by people with no experience with them. And if they’re zig zagging at 300-400 get doing 25-50mph, good luck hitting one, no matter how good you think you are. You’re better off finding the pilot; they’re likely within a half mile of the drone.

  8. My take-away is this:

    We can prepare….for what?
    Any and all outcomes?
    We can sustain….for how long?
    We can fight…with what outcomes?
    We as individuals, as families, as communities, can and will strive. But to what extent?
    There is only one being that controls your fate.
    We can talk about survival and wonder, worry of such outcomes….
    All we can do and what is required, is to fight the good fight. Prepare for those that may follow our beliefs of our Country, that follow our ideals
    WE are under continuous battles that fall victim, day by day, year after year. And by little means, small steps, maybe, we become the Victors.
    Lord willing

  9. A few threads back addressed the supposed advantage of living rural vs urban, to which I wholeheartedly agree. While I also agree that even rural dwellers will face threat from hungry neighbors, I feel that threat, at least early on in a serious meltdown, will come no where near that faced by urban and suburban environs.

    I also believe that by the time serious unrest reaches the more secluded, sparsely populated places, much of the “die off” will have already occurred and those left will be the tougher, more resourceful, and probably more dangerous.

    On the other side of the coin, in the days, weeks, and possibly months it takes for the “zombies, survivors, ravenous invaders” to reach our area, groups of neighbors will have seen the wisdom in assisting each other. Even more than they always have.

    Most everyone living within 100 miles of me are lifelong hunters. Guns are a integral part of their lives. Woods running, stalking, and ambushing game is second nature. They are used to being their own first responders. In good times law enforcement response averages an hour or longer.

    I do see local radio communication being a big plus. That’s why I’ve been talking up CB radios to folks around me. Cheap, easy to store, easy to set up quickly. Even with limited range, a radio located every mile or so could relay messages and distress calls in minutes. Less, with a minimal amount of organization and discipline. The little FRS and GMRS radios will be indispensable for family and closer neighbors.

    1. Dennis,
      What kind of response are ya getting from neighbors, with the CB option? I would think any kind of radio comms would be HUGE. People are people and some won’t consider it, others????

      1. Plainsmedic,

        Lukewarm at best. Of course, I don’t approach them from a “tomorrow we die” angle. Rather, I approach it by asking how we all could stay in contact if phone service went down due to natural events that cut off phone service, both land lines and cell. Then I bring up how, years back, many folks dabbled with CB’s.

        You might be surprised how many folks will tell you that they still have a CB and mobile antenna stored back “somewhere”. My best Bud and I both have a couple up and running. A neighbor about a mile away has one up and running in one of his pick-up trucks. Several others scattered around have them, a remnant from jobs they held when working the natural gas drilling boom a couple years back.

        I expect that, should conventional communications go down, many of those with CB’s stored away will break them out on their own in the natural desire to make outside contact. Some folks make preparations just in case, others act only when slapped with reality.

      2. Dennis your situation is a lot like Bluesman’s. Have decent neighbors, some distance from crowds and sad to say Normalcy Bias.

        The same comments I posted for Bluesman about Leadership and knowing your neighbors skill assets as well as local assets like a non-electric well for Water apply.

        As I’ve seen it over the years in many countries good leadership providing a workable plan calms and unites scared people and wards off most predators. Otherwise the semi-human Wolves pick us off one by one.

        I almost added CB’s to my communications-whistle-laminated code card comment but everybody knows CB’s well enough. I suspect anything you send out on CB will be listened to by many to include Bad Folks. At least whistles cost about a buck a pop for good ones. Better in my opinion than gunshots announcing an emergency situation.

        OPSEC on a neighborhood CB net might be hard to establish? Duress codes so folks forced to transmit for Bad Folks can warn you that all is NOT well at this house. Maybe premade cards for quick training when folks really figure out that is SHTF.

        Just thoughts from an old Medical Soldier.

    2. I have 3 cb radio’s, 2 put away, one in basement on a shelf.
      I always thought they could be useful but the range is limited to I think 4 to 5 miles ?

      1. Horse,

        On range limitations with CB’s, you never know for sure. Like any transceiver, a good antenna means better range. Atmospheric conditions also can help or hinder. Some days 2-3 miles is all you’ll get, some days 5-7 miles. If you have a truck stop nearby by that has a radio tech, they will “peak” your radio fairly cheap, upping it from 4-5 watts to 15+ watts, increasing your range. Years ago (mid-60’s) we could occasionally “talk skip”, sometimes hundreds of miles, if conditions were right, bouncing the signal off the ionosphere, but was a hit or miss proposition at best. Once, back then, I talked with a guy who said he was in Florida, I was in Texas.

        Definitely not a dependable long range communications answer, but would suffice for rural communities. Like you, many folks have them from younger days, stored back, and could get them into the game if necessary.

      2. Horse,
        Yeah, CB is about the 11meter band. Only way you are going to increase your range is more power and/or better antenna. Easy way is to adjust your antenna to an SWR as close to 1:1 as possible. Right now in the sunspot cycle, you won’t be doing any skywave skip. Still good for chatting around town though.

  10. Out here on the dead end road we have a few who are medically dependent, and a few who are the other sort of drug dependent. A Level 3 event will probably not be survivable for either group. Some of these folks are alone.

    Makes me think of the scene in The Stand where folks are clearing houses of bodies. Have laid in some Tyvek suits, nitrile gloves, and face shields. May be needed for disposal, or dealing with contagion.

    Or should some places just be burned is they’ve been contaminated by decay? Want to keep exposure as limited as possible for the long haul.

    1. Limited as possible, yes, but those buildings represent resources that will be needed in a long term situation. Fire is very final, and in a situation where there’s no emergency response it can get out of hand very quickly.

    2. Anony Mee I am glad you brought this up. Dead people is a real problem if handled poorly.

      Protective gear is a MUST. your list PLUS M95 masks will do for most situations. We used peppermint oil on our surgical masks when dealing with gangrene.

      Outside the home common decency and sanitation is to bury them. I WOULD daily do a upstream check of my water sources to establish something nasty wasn’t lying beside or IN my creek. Sick people instinctively seek out water so…..

      Bacteria with out a host dies off pretty quickly, viruses however can last for a LONG time. If you were needing to salvage from the dead (not my first choice) look at the need to WASH everything with soap and hot water before drying it in the Sunshine for even more disinfection. A BIG (as in cut down 55 gallon drum over a fire) boiling pot of water would work better.

      Items like Mattresses and such cannot be decontaminated and burning is my choice. Salvaged lumber, windows and other stuff that can be washed and sun disinfected can be reused. Carpet can be reused but I’d give that several weeks turning it over daily for sunshine to do it’s thing.

      BTW Carpet is an AWESOME way to clear a garden plot. Put it over your new garden area and give it a few weeks to kill off the grasses, weeds, I’ve even killed off Poison Oak that way.

      No, I disposed of that carpet afterwards but SHTF I’d mark it as to know what side was contaminated with Poison Oak stuff.

      During the Black Death in the Medieval era they BURNED Plague homes often with the still alive but sick people trapped inside. Didn’t work all that well. they had no clue about the Germ Theory.

  11. Just look around next time you are out and about, all the people on their phones, dont talk anymore,
    Dont think for themselves etc etc,,,,
    Zombies,
    Not too far a stretch of the imagination

    1. Phone, drug, convenience, gov addicted type I can only assume
      will be the first to fall victim to the majority of bad crap that will
      happen.
      IF a collapse ever happens, I have doubts.

  12. How would we know we’re in a Level 3 event? Only by the passage of time.

    After a week of grid down, no significant communication, no transportation, do we hunker farther down or venture out a bit? After a month? How gray can we afford to go? Prepared as we are, we still can’t afford to sit around waiting for either rescue or attack. Even at the beginning of a Level 3 timeline, it will feel like TEOTWAWKI. Out of an abundance of hope, or maybe fear, we will be doing what we can to maximize food resources. Using chickens for production rather than Sunday dinner, pushing broody hens to sit rather than eating fertilized eggs, preparing soil, planting extra seeds, foraging, hunting, fishing, preserving by various means. We won’t know whether help will arrive in a few weeks, a few years, or if ever.

    Likewise we won’t know if the stranger at our door is an angel in disguise or a scout for a predator group. I think the gate will stay shut for a while. Like others have expressed everyone out here is a hunter, and as a neighborhood it enhances all our security if we protect each others’ shared borders.

    And thanks me2. Do have a stock of the N95s. Will get peppermint oil, thanks for that info.

  13. Amazing to think the chaos something like this would cause. 100 years ago no electricity would just be any other day. Sad how utterly dependent the majority of people have become on the grid. Think we’ve finally hit the 3/4 month mark on food and water. Have a long ways to go but it’s scary to me how many people couldn’t eat for more than a day or two with what they have in their frig.

  14. Most humans don’t want to die. Humans are very adaptable and resourceful. Most humans are awful and full of bias. Most humans are delusional about their capabilities and knowledge. Most humans are lazy (which is actually a good thing, work smarter not harder) and choose the path of least resistance. This is because humans avoid conflict. Humans will work way harder to keep what is theirs than take what isn’t, assuming comparable risk. The two greatest things that get humans to do what no other has yet is anticipation and adaptation.

    Desperation causes people to overcome their selfishness when they realize teamwork will help solve a problem. All humans know that success is more likely together than alone. But once the need has been met they tend to return to their selfish ways. And they are always calculating risk.

    Humans know that bodies carry disease. In war humans would bury the enemy. Even during widespread famine. This will not change no matter how dumb we are.

    Most humans, since they don’t usually want to die, are fairly risk adverse. Even when desperate, the brain is working efficiently calculating risk.

    If you’re “starving” are you going to stop at the house with a clearly visible orchard, chickens clucking, and the smokehouse cooking … surrounded with a fence and a bunch of “no trespassing” signs with smiley face shaped bullet holes in them? I’m willing to bet even if you have a group of 30 you’re going to make like a tree and leave. This is because you know that person has a plan and has been working it. Even if their plan is only “keep my crap” they still have the home advantage and naturally will try way harder to keep theirs than they would to take it from someone else.

    You know that even if you’re 30 strong doesn’t mean you’re the first person person to stumble along looking for “free food” at this establishment. You already know the person likely has at least one firearm and likely knows how to use it. You already know they are likely a pretty decent shot. You know that there is a 13% chance that each pistol projectile will hit you when a unprepared and untrained person is under duress. So by shot 7 you’re probably dead. Less than that if the projectile emitter is a rifle. Way less if they’re trained.

    So your brain does some more math in realtime and realize you’re 1 in 30 people. If the person is shooting at 30 people with a normal 30 round magazine they’re probably going to hit 3 people even if they’re spraying and praying. Still seem like a good idea? Probably not. A little birdy in the back of your mind might have already told you someone has you in their cross hairs before you even ran this risk calculation. You don’t want to die so you move on.

    1. pinky,

      Good post. You’re right, in good times or bad, people who would take what’s yours will consider the risk. That is why shootings in “gun free zones” are common, and shootings at “gun shows” are exceedingly rare.

      Same applies, I think, as to why rioting, burning, and looting, invariably only takes place in the same neighborhoods that those doing the looting live. I firmly believe that the reason they don’t spill over into the more “ethnically diverse/affluent” neighborhoods is because the actors know the likelihood of push-back (judicial use of deadly force) from owners/residents would be a much higher probability.

      But……..your observations does point to a threat that I consider to be very real, if for no other reason than it involves the tactics I would use to take down a target if I was the bad guy. That is the threat of a sniper. Why would a person, or group of scavengers risk a frontal assault when they could pick you off from a distance, in seclusion, then observe from afar for reaction and follow-up if needed?

      That would be my greatest, and toughest to defend against, threat concern.

    2. Desperation clouds the brain. Prevents user from having the ability to look ahead and gauge the consequences of their actions.
      We will see hoards of desperation………………….

    3. Pinky if someone has Leadership of a group of 30 wanderers that Leader to stay in control has to provide for their needs. They will NOT pass up a rich target like the farm you described as aside from a mild summer night even basic shelter is valuable, let alone food and water.

      That’s why I suggest learning your access points, using barriers and OP’s to direct them a bit. Don’t make it easy for them to arrive close enough to SEE your lovely Gardens and Chicken yards.

      As you mentioned the 30 some wanderers you mentioned are using Teamwork to provide themselves with the basics of life, Water, Food, Shelter. Expect that they developed tactics to succeed or they wouldn’t be here right now eh? Well, maybe early on the SHTF this is their First Attempt to rob someone?

      Gang-Mob Team work vs. a Prepared Team using solid defensive fighting positions the odds are more for the defense. If your trying to live like SHTF never happened in your Sliding Glass Door Home telling that dog to “shut up” your going to suffer and most likely die or be enslaved.

      Sniper attacks is a great concern. Training your people to be aware of cover and a dedicated concealed Overwatch Shooter with perhaps a moving armed “Target” Dummy to take the first shots might help. Most non-military trained “snipers” perform poorly once they are getting return fire. Folks who can easily hit a 8 inch gong from the bench are not quite so good in the field, COLD, Hungry and Tired, let alone after unfriendly fire is visiting them.

      I am looking at Commercial Grade Drones for locating them and perhaps donating a “gift” to them as I am so generous. Maybe a Bear Spray deodorant for them?

      Other anti-sniper thoughts please?

      1. So you think that 30 people that are mostly united because they are desperate are going to overtake someone with the home team advantage? As soon as people start dying it is going to be chaos. People know there isn’t going to be a Blackhawk showing up to haul away the wounded. You already know at least one person can shoot. You know they chose to be descrete about it instead of putting bodies on pikes. What is the chance that it is one guy with a clapped out 30/30 with 3 bullets left?

        You must have figured out by now that if someone has made it long enough to still be running the smokehouse and have chickens wandering around… That what is the chance that someone else hasn’t already tried to overrun it and failed? What makes you think you’re going to be successful?

        Do you think that because you’re one of the “30 hardened Billy badarses” that the chicken watchers couldn’t possibly be “31 hardened Billy badarses butcherers”? Maybe what is hanging in the smokehouse is two legged animals with opposable thumbs…

        Maybe I’m strange, but I don’t want to die. My assumption in life is I’m not the best at anything. And even if I’m thinking I’m better than average it doesn’t mean a complete idiot can’t get lucky.

        Sure, you can sit there and do reconnaissance. Do you really have time/resources to piss away doing so? My assumption would be they’re doing the same thing because I’m going to assume they didn’t get lucky to make it this long. Since they’re not hoofing it I’m willing to bet they have way more resources to defend.

        My assumption would be they’re sitting there with a 300 RUM waiting to pick me off from half a mile away. My assumption would be they chose not to engage because they’re hoping I move on because they also know that if they engage every gaggle of goons that comes along that their loan will come due. Because they don’t want to die either.

        1. Pinky don’t get riled up. I just responded to your posting. Nothing personal about it.

          Wandering groups are a real threat. Your correct that they are NOT just “Lucky” they are the Hardened Dangerous People that have been SUCCESSFUL in getting what they need.

          So many folks try to reason that scary scenario away that those Pink Haired, unsure what bathroom to use, obese Wal-Mart types will never over run ME. I have a G U N and they Hate G U N s.

          Facts is THEY are Correct Because those folks all died off before they met up with you.

          The ones Dangerous enough to be successful will be the ones I fear the most.

          AND Your the next meal ticket for them as you described the scenario. Will they take casualties? Probably. They have seen their friends die and they are hardened about it.

          The rest of your comment simply confuses me.

          1. It is very difficult for large groups of people under duress to work as a team. Humans will do incredibly stupid things when they are scared and realize they are likely to die. They are already more than likely irrational anyway because they will know by now that they’re the bad guys. So yes, erratic behavior is likely but it is also a weakness.

            How does a large group of crazies get together? They probably already battled each other. How much allegiance are you really going to to have with a person that used to be shooting at you? A group would not be effective below 10 and above 20 they behave more like a weak mob. Mobs die out because they’re like locusts that can’t get to new resources fast enough.

            A gaggle of 30 people may be “hardened” but more than likely they already learned how fragile human bodies are. They know if they get a hole poked in them or a trap clamps down on their foot they’re likely going to die. There is no Blackhawk coming to haul them off to the hospital.

            If I were in my home by myself I still wouldn’t worry about 30 people wandering through too much. They’re going to be too unorganized. Time is on your side. They can’t even run an effective siege. They aren’t going to burn your house down because they want it. If they shoot at you just shoot a couple in the gut that appear to have someone who cares about them and call it a day. They might want vengeance but their “mob” isn’t big enough to be successful… And they don’t want to die… So they move on.

            Now if they had a MRAP it’d be a different story. Especially if they happened to set up a fortified base within a reasonable travel time. They are likely going to leave everyone alone (because they know every interaction is risky) but what happens when they become desperate? They’re organized, probably have reasonable resources, and have an MRAP! You are likely never going to have a negative interaction with these people but yes, if you do, you’re screwed unless… You have two MRAPs.

            What I’m getting at is that if someone looks like they have a pretty sweet setup I’m going to keep moving on because I’m on their turf and I have no idea how they got it let alone kept it. They might just be waiting for new indentured servants to show up and work their gardens until they decided I would be the next person to “hang out” in the smokehouse.

          2. Pinky clearly you’ve never served in the infantry IN a combat zone. Nor I suspect been an active Policeman in any sort of street troubles. Desk jockeys need not apply.

            Folks who need to do violence as a team figure out how to do it well OR they die off quickly. They know they might not be safe today, they rationalize it or internalize it as a Team thing and they DO what has to be done.

            Did you notice that street shoot out in Philly the other day? The Police KNOWING that one of THEIRS was already shot worked together to take out the shooters and not simply kill everybody in that store. They did NOT say “Hey they might Kill Us, lets go to Dunkin Doughnuts until they go away on their own”….

            Any wandering group HAS been successful getting food, water and shelter before they meet up with you. Otherwise with bad food or water they are sick and dying already.

            Simple logistics spells it out. Daily water need if your actively marching and working is well over 2 gallons a day before cooking and washing up is thought of.

            Water treatment is needed for well over 90% of surface water in the USA or your going to have some gut issues, intestinal parasites. 3+ days of bad water your so weak your not wandering anywhere. So a 2 day “Bug Out Pack” for water for them is 4 X 8 pounds each = 32 pounds in each persons pack. Yeah they MIGHT have a few sawyer water filters @ 20.00 a pop that hasn’t been misused with muddy water OR Frozen and thus useless.

            PRO Tip always Prefilter your surface water BEFORE using a Sawyer or any other water filter. The manufacturers ratings for gallons of water filtered is USING clean City Water…. Micro pore filters HATE silt and algae. Clogs them up.

            And we have not even discussed the food preparation issues like say Pots and pans to cook in? Bags of food swag from the last successful pillaging… Medical issues like that twisted ankle or maybe broken ankle of Paul over there, the bit of a cold-flu with those folks over there…

            All this to say IF there is a wandering Group LOOKING at your nice chicken yard-smokehouse single family in a Stick Built weak glass windows and such home YOUR their next Meal Ticket.

            THEY DON’T Have the logistical support to simply “Move On this is too hard a target”. Your the next meal ticket UNLESS you can defend yourselves properly.

            Thus SUCCESSFUL post SHTF groups BLOCK easy access and set up fighting positions to keep them as far away from that Chicken house view as possible.

            So go ahead Pinky, don’t worry as your quote here says “If I were in my home by myself I still wouldn’t worry about 30 people wandering through too much. They’re going to be too unorganized. Time is on your side. They can’t even run an effective siege. They aren’t going to burn your house down because they want it. If they shoot at you just shoot a couple in the gut that appear to have someone who cares about them and call it a day. They might want vengeance but their “mob” isn’t big enough to be successful… And they don’t want to die… So they move on.”

            IF they Shoot at you just shoot a couple in the gut and they will move on?

            REALLY?

            While there is a lot of “Survival Magazines” in Wal-Mart I’d not make my survival planning from them.

          3. me2,
            You just can’t let it go can you… obviously pinky has a differing opinion. you’re not going to WIN this one.

            Especially with statements that promotes angering the other such as “Pinky clearly you’ve never served in the infantry IN a combat zone. Nor I suspect been an active Policeman in any sort of street troubles. Desk jockeys need not apply.”

            That’s not helpful.

          4. You can’t compare warfare or police to guerilla or yestermillennia warfare. There is no support system.

            People wandering around are not going to have a support system. They get one chance with everything. There are no do-overs. You spend a lot of time calculating risk and cost/benefit ratio. Because you don’t want to die.

            The person(s) with the chickens and smokehouse and fancy orchard made it somehow. What makes you think those person(s) are going to be successfully overrun by an outfit of 30 wandering souls?

            People might get hardened about their cohorts dying. But every one of them knows they could be next. Nobody wants to die. Nobody wants to show weakness. Really they just want to live.

            My assumption is that the person(s) with chickens are just going to simply appreciate me bringing my 29 “friends” and their supplies with me. I’d assume that if I’m lucky they’d let me bury my 29 “friends” before I’m worm food also. Or hanging out in the smokehouse.

            Most people don’t want to die. Smart people find ways to live without conflict. Smart people will quickly realize they aren’t going to come out of it unscathed and will eat worms that night and move on. Because it sure beats being wormfood.

            I’m glad you know how to take care of water filters. I appreciate this because through exceptionally poor decision making and pure luck someday shall you ever make it to my house pillaging along the way thinking you’re getting a chicken dinner… I could use a well-cared for 37th spare Sawyer Mini. Unless you bring an MRAP.

        2. pinky

          Sorry Ken but I have to add

          Pinky, I recommend you read “One Second After” as a pretty good account of what a bunch of criminals, addicts, psychopaths, starving, deviants, … are willing to do in the absence of law and order.

          On a personal level, once a gang of looters have fought all the way from Kalifornia up to northern Idaho, they will be well experienced in leadership, tactics and ruthlessness – taking losses will not matter to these animals. Nothing short of a total community effort will stop them from burning us out.

  15. unless you plan on continuously moving – no matter where you live sooner or later you’ll be dealing with a corpse – going to be plenty of the half-dead moving around until their last moment on earth >>> hitting your security perimeter and posing a health & safety risk …

    better prep to move the body from a long reach – protect yourself from any contamination – decontaminate the area – and most importantly PROPERLY dispose of the body …..

    1. I keep a half dozen bags of slack lime (caustic lime, whitewash) in the garage for spreading around the outside edge of outbuildings to keep out bugs, insects, mice. Same stuff farmers would use to paint inside of barns or stone basement walls. The State will sprinkle it onto dead deer that have died along the road and have liquified. It will wipe out any odor or bacteria associated with the corpse. Good source of lime too but very alkaline. Use with caution in garden.

  16. “At some point the zombies stop knocking on doors. They start kicking them in. It gets violent.”

    One important thing to note about this is how it will play out differently depending on where you live. Prepare accordingly.

    In Canada for example, most people don’t own or have access to firearms. The few that do (eg: hunters) will be people to avoid. Most Canadians don’t have any weapons or know how to use them, because it is illegal to carry anything with the intent to use it as a a weapon against another person (even for self defense). When the “zombies” come knocking down doors in this posed scenario, they are statistically likely to be armed with kitchen knives, exacto-knives, bear spray, or maybe a camping hatchet. Anything they can re-purpose from their lives. The people wielding these items won’t know the first thing about using them to attack someone which gives you an edge. Taking some self-defense training which includes disarming an armed attacker will enable you to take advantage of this edge. Cut-proof gloves could also come in handy.

    1. YOLO

      I have four Canadian friends that live in semi rural areas of British Columbia. They all have a good supply of guns and ammo. Three have permits for hand guns. They all have what is required in Canada, a “Possession and Acquisition Permit” with their photo on a plastic ID card. Each weapon is not registered so having four to ten guns is not a problem. Just good opsec not to mention it to snowflakes. Too bad most of their guns fell into the river when the feds decide to confiscate them – only that single shot 22 short that was grandpa’s.

    2. A good club works well enough against those types.
      easy enough to practice with, reasonably simple to make.

  17. Response to Ken, Pinkie, Dennis and Me2:

    The ruminations of an old, government trained “sniper”:

    The word sniper was considered a dirty word among the police agencies I worked at and I have heard that many within the military also treat them different than line soldiers with a different MOS. Even within the Marines ( the only branch that places high value on rifle marksmanship ), the snipers are respected or feared or loathed by many within the ranks. If people find out that you are “that guy” you get treated differently within the office. ( no invites to the afterwork volleyball game, beer bashes, Christmas parties or other mainstream social occasions. ). In summary, it is a somewhat solitary existence.

    Since snipers are used to working alone or in small groups, the odds are rare or low that they will be found hanging out with large groups of 30+ people because they do not want to be associated with the bone-heads within said group. ( there will always be a few in every group that large ) The snipers are not afraid to splinter off from a group and go it alone or with a group of like-minded cohorts. George Washington would often complain about the lack of control he had over the backwoodsmen within his ranks that would sneak off and take out a British sentry.

    Experienced snipers know they have a low or short life expectancy if they choose to target other human beings and they go off the reservation in regards to rules of engagement. Historically, if captured, the snipers are not only killed but their bodies are desecrated. ( heads on pikes at city walls, etc. )

    Those that have survived for long periods of time: “alone in the woods”. generally had to have an internal motivation that was much bigger than themselves and they were not alone in the woods rather they were at the fringes of human society in order to steal or pilfer food and resources in order to survive in the hills.

    The historical precedence for this is the story of 2nd Lt Hiroo Onoda of the Japanese Army that was considered one of the last hold outs from WW-2. He and his small band cohorts terrorized the villagers on the island of Lubang in the Philippines for some 30 years after the end of WW2. Also note that he did not have a lot of body fat on him when he came out of the jungle to relinquish his sword to his commanding officer in 1975. Lt Onoda was not alone for most of that time. He was simply the last survivor of his small band. The others died at the hands of the police over the years prior to his surrender. One will argue: he was not a sniper so much as he was a criminal, a terrorist, a soldier trained as a commando during a war. Sniping was simply a method he used to survive.

    As I type this, my wife is sleeping in the next room. My dog is snoring and drooling in a pillow next to me and the fat cats are draped in the window sills soaking up sunshine. I could never willingly trade all of this for being cold, scared, hungry, tired and lonely existence of being a “lone wolf” roaming the hills and putting the fear of god into the hearts of other human beings.

    Still, each Spring when I go out hunting small game with my single shot Savage bolt rifle or I go to the range in order to hit postage-stamp sized targets at 100 yards, someone will approach me afterwords and ask me: “where did you learn to shoot?” My wife knows some of what I have done and she can read the plaques and trophies that were scattered among the deer antlers and wild boar tusks.

    The cattle ranchers used to leave messages in the Spring and I would return their calls and pull out the duffle bag which contained my hand-made ghille suit and camouflage cold cream to smear on my face. The final touch was stretching a piece of old panty hose over the objective lens of my scope and place a rubber band to reduce glare. Coyotes have sharp eyes so everything shiny must be made to not shine. My newly-wed wife would just look on in silence. She was not comfortable with this.

    Before leaving California, every once in a while, a cop in uniform would approach me and ask me questions or talk. That was the only confirmation that the stories I told her was not brag.

    While Dennis likes to send lead downrange on steel in large quantity, My trips to my local club see me firing 20-40 rounds at the most at a small distant target. Mine is a different game and uses a different part of the brain. I also like to fire shotgun at flying clay ashtrays these days as well though it is purely recreational. ( shout out to Joe C out there! )

    Snipers are not invincible. If they think they are, they will not live very long and their solitary existence will be cut short if they try to take on people in groups. (families, tribes, clans, gangs or government agencies. ) For myself, all I can say is I dislike playing golf…

  18. Like you say, this would be better said in a novel.
    The problem you describe should be looked at from the other side. You note serious food shortages and people dieing and rotting on the ground.

    SALT. Preserves meat! Cheap. Stays good forever in a 5 gal bucket.

    Sorry, like you said, better in a novel

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