PREPS

Preparedness For Newcomers To The Group

store more food and supplies to support newcomers to the group

When the balloon goes up and the “S” hits the fan for real, you will hunker down into defensive mode.

You have prepared for a long time and now your preparedness will pay off big time. You have been the Ant while all the Grasshppers were partying.

The future looks grim for those who didn’t see it coming. They laughed and even scoffed at you for being a prepper. After all, preppers are just a bunch of kooks right?

While the impact rapidly sets in and others are running out of food, water, and supplies, you begin to realize that you might have overlooked something very important.

It’s getting dangerous out there. I mean really dangerous. And it’s just you and your spouse sitting on all your supplies.

The unprepared are desperately trying to discover who may have food and other supplies to spare. Some of them might already suspect or know that you are one of those ‘preppers’.

People have begun to knock on their neighbors doors looking for handouts. They are getting angrier by the hour.

The local churches, food banks, and support organizations have done their due diligence and provided for the needy until they themselves ran out.

The government’s attempts at securing food distribution has largely failed given the extent of collapse. People not going to work despite government orders. They fear for their families’ safety.

The 18-wheelers that are rolling are being ambushed. Supplies are not making it to their destinations.

Groups of societies’ bad-element and groups of the aggressive desperate are roaming and stealing wherever they can. The cities have fallen into absolute mayhem. The suburbs have become very dangerous targets. Rural areas are faring better but the hungry are resorting to desperate means there too.

Here’s the problem. Here’s what you overlooked during your time of prepping and preparedness:

1. There is power in numbers (your defense & bodies to do the required work).

2. You may be supporting more than just you and your spouse.

“I believe that even small families would be well advised to have on hand quantities for the larger group, as they are not horribly expensive, and keep well for prolonged periods of time.” said a MSB reader who emailed me not too long ago.

Just because it’s just you and your spouse bugging in for now, doesn’t mean that six weeks into the event you won’t have a dozen invited-after-the-fact people living under your roof.

While they may have brought some of their own supplies, tools, and contributions, a long term plan to feed more than just you and your spouse (or your immediate household) may be wise.

Having just two more capable people in your group will provide a powerful advantage to your longer term survival. Four more could be even better.

Why? Because you will have more bodies for security and for performing the hard work that will be required to stay alive.

The issue with that of course are the mouths to feed! However it is doable and it may be very advantageous to your longer term survival under collapse conditions.

It is not terribly expensive to store back more dry good ‘staples’ such as rice, beans, wheat. Did you know that you can survive on rice-and-beans alone?

Rice and Beans, A Survival Combination

Tip: A wide variety of spices can go a long way to ensure a more palatable meal day in and day out!

I’m not going to get into the specific suggestions of additional food storage because my intent is to highlight the notion of planning for extra. You can decide for yourself what may be best for you.

And we’re not just talking food. It’s the whole ball of wax, so to speak. To support more people will require more of all the things that go along with it.

Examples of what you’ll need more of:

-Food (inventory and re-supply plan)
-Water (a reliable source & filtration)
-TP (as much as you can store)
-Firearms & Ammo (enough for everyone)
-Sanitation (especially if you don’t have septic)
-Tools (for all tasks, gardening, etc..)

You get the idea, simply more of whatever supports more people in your group.

 
What’s your opinion of this plan (to reserve more supplies to increase your group size if need be)?

Do you agree that a larger group size of the right people will be an asset to longer term survival?

If you agree with that notion, is there an ideal number?

Or is this mostly not necessary (describe why)?

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57 Comments

  1. I am getting ahead of this issue. My next prep items are to have signs made saying” FRESH WATER AT RIVER DOWN THE ROAD 3 MILES, FOOD STATION JUST ANOTHER 10 MILES WEST” or stay here and be fed to my attack dogs. Crazy? Maybe but that is perhaps the image that one should project when the S-htf.

  2. hermit us–That is a good and effective sign. If someone comes upon that sign, they will just keep on walkin’.

    1. Still working on the wording and design – have added a Homeland Security logo at the bottom. It must look like it was a waste (sorry, necessary use) of many tax dollars.

  3. Hard one to answer. Yes, extras should always be stocked, if not for others, then for yourself and family. As Ken stated, extra food, water/filtration, hygiene items are not that expensive. Not sure I would give someone who has given me no reason to trust them a weapon in my own home. Long standing friends and family, no problem.
    I agree there is strength in numbers and I feel that number is between 5 & 7. I feel that group size would be optimal for most situations. Gives enough hands to make sure all is done while still having 1 or 2 on guard duty. Keeps sanitation/contagion issues a little lower. Allows for a daily rotation of duties (if the trust factor is there) to break up what will be a very repetitive lifestyle to most. Allows for a 4 sided defensive position to be easily set. If needed, a well lead group can move tactically thru most environments while still covering each other with less chance of being noticed or leaving traces of itself
    More to say, but no time now. With self reply later with further opinions.
    GOOD QUESTION KEN!!

    1. Ok back. @Peanut Gallery….my group to will consist of a partly disabled adult. I know she still has it to get one or two shots off if needed! I also have a 20 month old. She has no problems taking care of him. The disabled mature adults will become the teachers of the next generation and most of them can remember how to live life w/o modern luxuries. Teachers, doctors, guards, repairs, mending and sewing, etc. They have more to bring to the table with their knowledge then most younger preppers with all the new toys.
      Back to topic….another thing I would try to do is keep the group at an odd number. This would prevent “tie votes” WHICH WILL HAPPEN in most groups. I am also including people I trust with skill sets I have limited knowledge in. This allows everyone to be of use as we will learn from each other.
      Extra supplies should be had no matter what in case something happens to you, your group, or your shelter. Think of a swarm coming thru and eating your crops, a disease hits your livestock, freak flash flood “wipes” out NRPs TP stash! Those supplies meant for a person/people who never showed up to the party, are now your lifeboat.

  4. I have often thought about the need for extra hands and eyes. We have 5 adults in the house now, with one being disabled. Trying to get everything done with just 4 adults rotating duties will definitely be a bit rough. Especially having to keep at least one person on constant guard duty. Given the chance, I think two more people would allow more flexibility. However even a disabled person can be of use especially when it comes to guard duty as it is not a physically demanding activity. Of course that depends on the disability.

  5. I know that many “preppers” have formed groups, for support, pooling of resources, security, etc. I understand the thinking, but I also question the likelihood these “alliances” remaining cohesive when times get tough and emotions are tested. Heck, even the standard Mom,Pop, children, brother, sister blood kin family have disagreements and break-ups.

    I believe that, especially in the more sparsely populated environs where I live, it is more likely that the natural friendships and respect developed during “good times” will continue after a catastrophe. Our seclusion dictates a form of inter-dependency already, a phone call to just about anyone within five miles of my home would bring them on the run . I also know there are certain residents in our “community” that are either known outlaws or just untrustworthy. I’ve made sure the “outlaws” are well aware of my dis-like for them and their kind. They are also well aware, because of the gossip that spreads in communities such as ours, that I’m the last person they should mess with. I really don’t worry about them as a threat.

    I feel that independent, stand alone, family units will be the norm in my area, with those families coming to each others aid if the need arises. I believe communities will adjust quickly to adapt to conditions (if that community had any cohesiveness before).

    What’s the old saying about battle plans? They’re all perfect until the first shot is fired.

    1. Tyson said “Everybody’s got a plan till they get punched in the face”
      Too many hear “survival group” and think “commune”.
      Most of us will be forced into uneasy alliances, but at arm’s length.
      Reagan sais “Trust, but verify”

  6. A small group of dedicated people can hold out much longer than one or two in this scenario. Too many or the wrong kind will limit the chances of ultimate survival (read The Diary of Anne Frank). It’s up to everyone to set their own limits. Kudos to those who are able to create their “group” before the balloon goes up.

    Personally I have prepared with the understanding that family members will inevitably end up here because it’s the center of our family. This is where they feel safe.

    1. I doubt there will only be one “event”. Different things will push different areas over the edge, while others will continue to live somewhat normally. We are living through a slow motion collapse right now.

  7. I am glad you mentioned rice and beans. I have been aimin to post something along that line. rice and beans are cheap, lots of people are not aware that rice and beans will keep you ALIVE. that does not pertain to the people here regularly but somebody brand new might see that and learn.. I am always thinkin sustainability. We need to be making plans to become as self sufficient as possible, whether that means bartering a needed skill for what you need, growing food, whatever it is people can’t do without. I am lookin ahead to the point the food stored is depleted. it is possible there will be no replenishments for maybe even years………… I think it wise for everybody to GROW something, if nothing but container plants on the patio. salt is necessary for the human body to function, nice for seasoning but also wonderful for infection. a soak in salt water has cured many infections. salt, rice, beans, water and new arrivals can make it till next spring and summer, then eat what they grow, catch, foraged wild food.

    1. Rice and beans are great but don’t forget the Texas Pete’s or other spice up. Last time the store had Texas Pete’s on sale 99 cents a bottle backed up the pickup.

    2. I have been buying the cheap gravy packets. They may not be the greatest but they will make freeze dried meat a lot more palatable. With butter unavailable it will also help potatoes, flavor wise. Those horrible, nasty chemicals don’t count when SHTF. Frankly, at almost 70, it’s not really a concern.

  8. Including others is crucial to help with so many things we aren’t used to having to do. Everyday chores will be made much more time consuming (ever think about why it used to take one whole day a week for our grandmothers to do laundry?) Not to mention security. Having enough resources will be our job right now to prepare for. But like our friend always says, it’s a lifestyle people! There is so much to think about and plan for. It’s greeting real.

  9. I am looking at eight people to meet our defence needs, four of which are to be men. Why? Because of our age I think two hour guard duty during the night is the maximum and I don’t want to risk putting the “I hate guns” women on duty at night. As it is now, having friends over for dinner everyone starts to become sleepy and quiet around nine o’clock. By nine thirty everyone is leaving. Yup, two hours max at night. During the day it is different. Guard duty is not physically demanding and many will appreciate that.

    Stay frosty.

    1. When I was in the Army we had 2 on 4 off guard shifts. By the time everyone was relieved and we were back at the guard house and then woken back up to go to our posts we were lucky to get 2 hours sleep. That was 45 years ago. Recently I had the responsibility to safeguard some items over night. After working all day At 01:30 I was beat and took a 3 hour nap. I was up at 04:30 and worked a full day afterwards. I didn’t realize how heavy a Mossberg 500 can get at 01:00 let alone 06:00. I slept the next night from 20:30 until 08:00. At 68 years of age I am realizing I cannot, no matter how much I want to, do what I once did at 23 years of age.. So if you have some seniors in your group you might want to add a few more younger shooters. While the spirit is strong the body is now not what it was once was.

      1. See, right there! Your mind is still strong. Even without all you’ve prepped, your experience and knowledge is worth quite a bit in my book. You may not be able to pull the 8 hour shift, but you have plenty to teach the 23 year old on how to handle himself properly on such a duty.

      2. Thank you for your military service.
        From your experience, what do you think is the most difficult time to be alert during the night? DS could be assigned that shift.

        1. )300, that is when the body starts to shut down. HOWEVER for years I woke up at 0300 because that is when the gooks would shell us.

      3. Moses lived to be 120 & was in perfect health—-but he DID
        spend quality time with Almighty God

        Guess we could try that

  10. We will have eight in our group when the balloon goes up or the “S” comes down. The other three couples have tons of supplies and survival mind set. Only problem is they are only going to bring one main battle rifle (SKS) and a lot of hunting weapons for six people. My wife’s MBR is AK-74 and mine is AR-15 HBC with a AR-10 we will share as long range needs arise. Can’t get these family members to understand why they should spend money on a MBR when they have hunting weapons that are like new. Have seen them drop 4 K on Mountain House food but won’t spend $1200.00 on a mid grade MBR.

    1. Southernman, I understand where you are coming from, that’s why my MBW is a Springfield M1A1 and I have 6 M-4’s 2 Sks’s, 2 AK’s and a bunch of hand guns ranging from 45-9mm. I also have my hunting rifles, several .22’s plus several riot 12 GA. Shotguns and a large quantity of ammo for each. I have the opinion that if relatives come they will not be armed and it will be up to me to provide and me and my families safety and longevity depends on them being armed properly. My problem now is to control my urge to buy more weaponry. You might consider that if it ever comes to it and you and your group come out on top there will be weapons and ammo to scavenge.

  11. Ken,
    Good point about prepping for a (likely) expanded bug-in group. It’s more likely than not to happen. I figure my son and his wife would eventually find their way back home if S hits Fan. He lives in an ‘enlightened’ gun-free state, so I’ve added a budget long gun and handgun to the cabinet for him.

    Per the collapse timeline, I think there’ll likely be a “numbness” period after “the event” that triggers the collapse. Average unprepared folks won’t be rampaging raiders right away. True, the stores will likely be out of action within a few days. But, by and large, the average folks will try to wait it out ror many days, even a couple weeks. They’ll try to get by, waiting for FEMA.

    After that, they’ll be more desperate. If Venezuela (and now Kenya) are any indication, the masses’ first plan will be big protests — as if complaining louder will solve their problems. The percentage that will take to raiding prepper-neighbors’ houses will be small.

    Here in NH, it seems that most non-urban households are pretty well armed. (Neighbor down the road practices with his big .40 every Sunday evening. Boys down the other way practice a lot. Even my 80-year-old friend up the road is armed. Hungry sheeple will know this, making it highly unlikely that they’ll assault someone’s house — even in twos and threes. They’re hungry, but they don’t want to be dead. Even the gun-haters in NH know the odds are strong that you’d get shot if you made trouble.

    The risk (perhaps a month or two into the event) is larger groups, well-armed, (criminals, gang types) who attack in numbers. (10? 15?) For them, you’ll want your AR or AK. Of course, even though they’re criminal types, they also don’t want to die, so most likely won’t be doing any screaming banshee frontal-assault charges from a hundred yards out. They’ll employ stealth to pick off weaker targets (the lone prepper hermit) that they can take with less risk. Even so, I’d bet that no one member of the criminal assault gang wants to be the one man they lost.

    That’s where your other point comes in: safety in numbers. If you’ve got a well-armed group of 8 to 10 and a defensible location, the criminal raider gang is more likely to skip your house and look for easier pickings. OR, they’ll exploit vulnerabilities. If they can catch all 10 of you sleeping, or wait until half your group goes on an errand, etc. they might try something.

    All that is to say that Rambo-style assaults by bad guys (from hundreds of yards out) will just not happen. Just my humble opinion, but ace battle rifles capable of tight groups at 300 yards won’t help much in hilly, wooded NH where you don’t usually get more than 50 yards of a view. The bad guys will be waiting for you behind the next tree, not the next hilltop.

    Plan for much closer contact and suspect ambushes.

    — Mic

  12. Trust and sleeping arrangements are the two biggest issues with adding newcomers into the fold.

    Where will the new folks sleep? Inside the house? Inside my defenses?? Am I going to arm folks who I am unsure of their morals and loyalty (or LACK of it)?

    Was going to post a historical viewpoint but decided not to bore you with long posts.

    Sleep tight my friends I am sure the newcomers will be loyal and honest with you.

    CONCERNED NH Michael

  13. The use of force multipliers for security will lighten the load,, trip wires,,tin can bell’s,,mouse trap cap poppers,,for starters and on to pungie sticks,,barbwire,and tiger traps and if all else fails homemade claymores if things get really bad ,,most of our group are exmiltary,old and slow but wise and experienced,,men that know how and when to stand and fight ,
    In the teams we hand picked our guys before the fight ,we knew everbodys strong points and weaknesses

    Time to build the team is before the fight

    Can’t see the mountain today too much smoke

    Who is John galt ?
    Tea time

  14. The odds are better with more people. But for those of us who live in or near
    cities it depends on what the SHTF is. I don’t know if anyone around me is prepared
    for anything and I haven’t shared how I am prepared with anyone else. Just moved
    into a condo two miles from downtown.

    I have enough water and food for one month alone here in my condo. If the SHTF
    was very near but I felt within a day or two that it wouldn’t get worse I might stay.
    If I felt that things could deteriorate quickly I’d load the car and head east to
    Arizona with my fingers crossed because once you leave under such circumstances
    you are now a refugee. Alone. The odds are very poor on making it any great
    distance alive. That’s reality. Neither good nor bad just the facts.

    I know exactly what I will take to survive for at least a couple or several days –
    food (MRE’s), water, filters, lights, and two guns (handgun and rifle) and ONE roll
    of TP – not do disappoint anyone here but superfluous stuff stays! If things are
    really bad I’ll probably be killed before the roll is even a quarter of the way
    through. You take what is absolutely necessary and not one thing more.

    It seems to me that the discussion usually revolves around rural areas and not
    areas like mine. This is not meant as a criticism. If I did leave I would hope I
    could find someone to go with me (Arizona? The natives are not going to
    welcome me if they are trying to survive themselves .) I’ve often thought that if
    I lived rural with not so close neighbors I’d be much more vulnerable being alone
    there than where I am – I at least know my territory. Rural is fine when you’ve
    build relationships over years I think. Showing up as a refugee not so much.

    I’m in the process of enhancing my cooking skills from the basics and pretty soon
    training more with my guns. So hopefully I’ll have something to offer a group if I can arrive
    safely somewhere. (Plus lots of antibiotics). I’m basically a very positive person and hardly get down but I cannot say at this time that I’ll be brave in an in an emergency. Time will tell.

    1. Your negativity will be your downfall. I live in a secondary nuclear target city right off the interstate. I feel I can make it.

    2. This is just my thought–If you make it to Arizona–I personally would go to the Grand Canyon. North Rim is full of deer & small animals. It is cooler in summer.
      Winter head down into the canyon. The canyon is huge, no one would find you.
      But you definitely need water & protein.
      Do need to watch out for snakes & scorpions.
      Understand where you coming from on living in city.
      I live 3 miles from downtown right off from 6 lane highway.
      took me 3 hrs going home on I77 from 35 miles away.
      And that’s going into charlotte nc not going out of it.

      You be amazed how brave you can be when things go bad.
      Don’t give up on yourself

  15. This may seem off topic, but not really.
    Providing food and water for your family:
    Today: A neighbor hinted that I could show her husband how the Roku works.
    She obviously hasn’t convinced him the $113 a month for Direct tv is spent unwisely since the Netflix is $10 a month and the Roku is a one time charge of $29 at Walmart.
    I just do not understand it–he watches only movies..no sports subscriptions, no movie channels (and still $113???? gasp!!)
    That can be done for $10 a month with savings of 100 a month?? Where’s the problem???

    And then she says….welllll, what if Netflix raises their rates?? Oh, yeah, like direct tv didn’t???

    I just want to scream –are Americans no longer capable of math??4
    That’s $1200 to be spent on food and water!!!

  16. This is something I have been thinking about quite a bit. On my inventory, I can adjust the number of “people prepared for”, and it will do the math for “survival days”. Boy, that number sure goes down fast when I change it from just DH and myself to a group of 7! I have had some initial conversations​with others who are trying to live more self-sufficient lifestyles, but don’t have anything like a formal “group”. I absolutely believe that we should bring in other people for mutual benefit. The people that I have been talking with have strong skills in areas I am weak and vice versa. I have lots of friends who are very knowledgeable with guns (ex-military, grew up hunting, etc) and have large stockpiles of ammo. This is definitely my weakest area. I would gladly stockpile extra food to have them join me in defending it.

  17. Ken,
    I am sincerely looking for a military grade night vision scope that can withstand the recoil shock when mounted on a 30-06 Remington model 700 BDL. Something that will not be blinded by someone else’s muzzle blast, etc. Something with say a 10 year warranty. There is too much information on Ready Made Resources to digest and make sense of everything. Can you make a suggestion on a good vision scope to start with.
    Thanks

  18. I don’t think anything will be more important than the ability do defend one’s self and family. you can bet that everyone that is up to no good will have a gun. the only “newcomers” I would be taking in would be family or longtime aquaintances. I am stand offish anyway, I would not be willing to take people inside that I don’t know. If it became necessary,or an emergency I have several surrounding neighbors that will team up. past differences will disappear. As it stands now I would be expecting 15 or so family members. most of them will arrive fairly well equipped. extra people will be needed here because there will be a tremendous amount of work. I need to clarify my definition of “newcomers”. the newcomers I speak of are nephews, my kids, or long time aquaintances. taking in strangers is another matter entirely to me. my neighbors would be expecting family at their places as well. If I lived in a city I would be planning on gettin out at the first sign of a problem and I would be tryin to maybe feel around now for a destination. There are a likely good people lookin for good people, with needed assets, they can count on. our ancestors lived in the manner we are talkin about. it has already been done……..WE can do it too.

  19. I left my family behind years ago in a state that was increasing taxes and talking of paying me in IOU’s. Even in the face of the downward spiraling economy, my relatives were still asking of my time, labor and help for their families and themselves. Economically, times were bad when we left California. ( fall of 2009. ). Finding a like minded community? I began by leaving my home state where I lived most of my life.

    For me, a like minded group is a group of doers. People who are working, like working and do not mind doing the work that needs to be done every day from grooming yourself, washing your hands before you cook in the kitchen or at the fire, taking out the garbage every day as needed ( before it becomes an overflowing mess.)

    During the last recession, many of my siblings sat on their a$$ and “waited for things to get better”. The took 8 long years. I left for greener pastures and never regretted it. This group of doers can include youngsters and the disabled. I was guarding farm equipment and property from theft on my uncles farm at age 14 with a pump shotgun. Older citizens with bad backs or bum knees can still “man a post” and, let us not forget, some of the deadliest Russian snipers have been women.

    At my current job, the challenge is to staff the place 24/7. It can be a challenge after 5 pm on weekdays. The weekends are always short and the balloon has not even gone up yet. Who shows up for work in a challenging environment everyday to do a difficult job that needs to be done? Answer: Many are first generation immigrants that have come to the U.S. Many came from war zones, refugee camps and other places that are pretty gross. These folks have seen true hardship.

    At my place of work, they look to me for leadership because I’ve been doing this job for decades. I have had tougher jobs in the past and I try my best to treat them fair and help them even if they are difficult to understand. ( their English is getting better but that will take time. ) I also take out the trash and dirty laundry in addition to other dirty jobs out there alongside my coworkers. Rank is what you are given. Respect you have to earn.

    If the balloon does go up, I can only hope that some of these people would allow me into their group. Rice and beans is on the menu but it would be supplemented with meat from a wide variety of sources to include: rats and rodents, snakes and scorpions. ( pound for pound, insects contain a lot of protein.). and the little old lady in your group that spent 2 years in a UN refugee camp in Nigeria will probably know how to make the handful of grasshoppers taste good too.

    1. So far almost everybody i have met from Ca likes to talk on their phone and pay others to do everything, pretty sick of it actually,,,

  20. P.S. : That Nurses Aide taking care of a relative? be nice to them because these are the 1st generation immigrants that I have been taking about in my prior post. Just because their English is heavily accented does not mean they are not smart and observant. ( and many have come to the U.S. through conflict zones.)

  21. This is one of those things that will keep you up at night if you dwell on it too much, too many variables and unknowns,
    Hoping for the best in people, but preparing mentally to do the absolute worst to them. Its not going to be fun,

  22. I have a bad back, but I work 45 plus hours a week. My wife has medical issues which limit her physical ability, but she works 40 plus hours a week. I have 2 grown sons that are strong and like to hunt, but are not reliable. I have 4 grandkids between 2 and 8 years old. I expect all of these to come to me when the shtf. We live in a small town and in a neighborhood that is mostly retired people. We have all lived here for many years and get along well for the most part. We are not an organized group but among our ranks are; 2 car guys that can fix almost anything mechanical with fully equipped shops, an electrician, a grocery store manager, a school teacher, a vet tech, a land lord that has building supplies, a former mayor, a carpenter, a farmer, and a family run saw mill. 5 of us are veterans. I don’t expect there to be total mayhem where we live, but we will have to fend off the local meth heads and any roaming marauders. We are 20 miles from a moderate size town and 100 miles from a large city. We already help each other out when someone is in need. I hope the mob mentality will not affect us, but I am prepared if it does.

  23. One of my group members, his wife and daughter were on their way to bring extra supplies and such to store at their cabin. They go on a road trip when the girl is out of school. They visit family and cruise swap meets,garage sales to buy items to store. Expect to stay about a week.

    They show up about 9 a.m. on a Tuesday. Unload their stuff. They have lunch with us and then we all gathered for dinner.

    Next morning they are sick as dogs. Later that same day some of the grandkids and adults are feeling sick. Within a few days 18 out of the 21 are sick or getting sick. Nasty stuff and some were sick for a week. Hit all the males harder than the females of the group. I was pretty sick myself.Basically less sick people were taking care of sicker people.
    Being that sick made standing a watch miserable. Being in a firefight…not good.

    POINT BEING,if you are bringing in ANY ONE from outside your core group you best QUARANTINE THEM for a specific time. Make sure they are not bringing some illness that will literally endanger everyone else in SHTF situation.

    I’m fortunate we could come back from this.

    Hate to think about if we had to stand and fight being that sick. Outcome would not of been promising…

    Just another hard lesson learned. We may have a tendency to let friends,family in with open arms. Without proper protocols it could be our undoing. Having a good stock of over the counter meds is a must.

    1. Your comment is quite worthy of a secondary post! I am particularly aware of other people’s health when we come in contact (experience over the years) and I know how devastatingly quick something can go through a home or group. Thanks for pointing that out.

    2. BJH
      From what you described is not a contagion, but a food born bacteria for it to act so quickly making the youngest ill first along with your guest, then having it spread through the group.
      Most contagions take at least 5 days from the first exposure to the signs coming to fruition. NO, I am not a nurse but observant of what, where & when these little critters come along to make the human ill, since I spent weeks upon weeks in a hospital with dh, watched, paid attention to who became ill and who did not.
      He & I were both exposed to H1N1 in 2013, when the hospitals from northern WA to SoCal were over loaded with patients from this virus during Christmas time and no one knew what it was until the tests came back positive for the illness.

        1. ?
          I thought Norovirus was a bug, caught/spread much like the flu etc…
          (and that seems to be what this site indicates
          “The highly contagious norovirus can tear through cruise ships, classrooms, and other crowded spaces, leaving vomiting, diarrhea, and stomach cramps in its wake.

          It spreads easily through food and drink and can have a big impact on people’s health. The CDC estimates that noroviruses are responsible for more than half of all food-borne disease outbreaks each year.”

          I hadn’t realised, it can be spread through food…
          the Canadian Food Inspection Agency is doing a recall on raspberry mouse cakes
          “Food Recall Warning – Raspberry mousse cakes recalled due to norovirus
          Ottawa, August 11, 2017 – Industry is recalling various raspberry mousse cakes from the marketplace due to norovirus. Consumers should not consume and retailers, hotels, restaurants and institutions should not sell, or serve the recalled products described below.
          These products may also have been sold frozen or refrigerated, or clerk-served from bakery-pastry counters with or without a label or coding. Consumers who are unsure if they have purchased the affected product are advised to contact their retailer.”

          it sort of seems like this norovirus can stay active in frozen goods, so would be tough to avoid.

          I hadn’t realised this..

          1. E.coli and salmonella are easy to protect against with proper food handling, temperature control and sanitation. Noro virus is a b*tch like no other. Once it’s presence is confirmed, every surface (walls, ceiling, floor, shelving, pots, pans, utensils) in the restaurant, hotel, or cruise ship needs to be treated​ with full strength bleach and pressure steamed. Regular sanitation won’t work. Everything must be sterilized or it will be back. Only thing worse than trying to sterilize an entire building is dealing with the sickness itself. Very much like amoebic dysentery, it’s one of those where the sick are asking you to kill them as it would be more merciful than living through that much suffering. I saw it happen a few years ago at a local restaurant. As soon as lab results were confirmed the health department shut down the restaurant, began quarantining individuals and houses, issued a public health advisory and free testing for anyone who thought they might be symptomatic. It took almost a month for the health department to certify the restaurant free of NV so they could reopen.

  24. Skibum

    Thanks..i obviously had not been paying attention to reports of this (Norovirus)…Nasty stuff.

  25. I work within a large hospital in a large city and Norovirus is around constantly to a greater or lesser degree. The best defense is to stock up on cleaning supplies include wipes that use bleach or peroxide. The other aspect of defense against micro-organisms is to practice sterile techniques and use this whenever food is cooked or prepared. When sickness is in the house, I eat cooked vegetables. Dietary experimentation will have to wait until your house is free of contaminants and sick people.

    In order to keep the MO’s at bay, you will find yourself going through cleaning supplies rapidly. ( The biggest source of waste produced within the U.S. is Hospitals and Nursing facilities.). so this goes way beyond NRP’s TP pyramid. Sorry to hear this from BJH in this context butt he reminded that sometimes we have to pay attention to the smallest of things order to stay healthy.

  26. Hi all,
    I mentioned lunch and dinner because of the interaction between my people and the visiting group member family at those times. There was also interactions especially with the kids with the daughter. She hung out with them at the cabin that is now the school.(Kids are all homeschooled. )
    They were not feeling well when they arrived. They figured it was road fatigue so they didn’t think to mention it.
    We push sanitation here because there are so many of us. All of us carry hand sanitizer either on a belt loop or some have it on a lanyard. We go through alot of bleach. The kids have been taught to speak up if they are not feeling good. We isolate and wear masks if needed.
    It was my fault. I should of asked them. It was complacency and the fact I was happy to see them. Good folks who felt terrible about it and stayed longer to help us get caught up on work not done due to being sick.
    He is a “scrounger “. He has a knack for finding parts and supplies where there is none.
    He was a popular guy in his army unit for those reasons. Brought me some hard to find parts.
    Not sure what exactly it was. We had flu like symptoms . Some got over it in a couple days.Others had it for a week or so.
    It was a harsh lesson that could of had fatal consequences in a grid down /wrol situation…

  27. Thank you, your blog is very informative. Here in Brazil we do not have many preppers yet, the knowledge on this subject is very limited, with some blogs dominating the content, which is quite annoying, since it makes the information very limited. I will continue following the blog to gain new knowledge and be able to transfer it to my friends. Stay with God.

  28. Good article! Noted that many focused on extra folks to help with 24-hour security.

    Place I purchased 6 years ago and just moved to a few months ago when I retired has a very compact manufactured home and a barn. I’ve added 2 40’ containers each modified with a walk door and a shuttered window. Used for family stuff storage right now. While getting this place organized am trying to identify a space so that those expected to be up at night can get restorative sleep during the day. Dark, warm, and quiet is needed. Think I may have to install a small stove in the container farthest from the other buildings.

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