The SHTF scenario is this: There has been a complete societal collapse and the vast majority of the population (who were unprepared) are desperate, suffering, and struggling to survive. There had been many ‘triggers’ set to fire-off the inevitable collapse, any of which would have ended the world as we know it. One of them went off and tipped over all the dominoes.
Without focusing on the circumstance which brought it all down, let’s focus on the aftermath and the question of letting others (or not) into your ‘retreat’, your BOL (bug out location), your home (wherever that is – assuming you’re supplied and safe).
Will you let anyone into your retreat after the SHTF?
If yes, then who?
Why?
Here’s one more wrinkle…
How would you get rid of someone who did not fit?
Let’s hear what you have to say:
0 (today) 1 (week) 8 (month)
A physician
Immediate family
That’s about it. I can’t think of a good reason to let a bunch of people join us and our supplies, at least until the smoke clears.
Great Answer Ancona !! (Y) (Y)
There’s no way you or a small family can stand guard 24/7 so it will have to be someone with skills. Trust no one at first.
I am 70 and live alone. I couldn’t possibly defend my home by myself and there is no one in this town I trust absolutely. My 66 year old brother lives about 500 miles away. I would let him in and his son (my nephew) if they could get here. My brother doesn’t have a car but my nephew does. My nephew recently married and I haven’t met his new wife so that is a problem.
I also have a cousin and cousin-in-law who I trust absolutely. My cousin had a stroke and is partially paralyzed now, but he was a former gun instructor and both he and his wife are experts and have lots of guns and ammo. my cousin would be worth his weight in gold just for his knowledge and expertise, and his wife has told me that he still shoots — with one hand.
I would let in my brother, my nephew and his wife, and my two cousins or whichever ones of those five wanted to come. I only have a two bedroom house but I guess we could use sleeping bags or something.
I don’t know how I would get rid of my nephew’s wife if we didn’t get along. I have food for one person to last a little over a year so we would start to get hungry after a couple of months. I guess I need more food stored.
My team consists of my wife and children, my parents, 2 brothers, my wife’s parents, sister and adult niece and nephew. I also have a local surgeon and his family and a former MP and his family. I don’t think I would let anyone else in unless circumstances required. There are other groups in our area we could team up with if needed.
Bear Grylls.
And his camera crew?
My house is a tiny one bedroom, and just my husband and I live in it. So I’ve been thinking about needing a few more eyes, ears and hands here. I would rather have extra people here now, before TSHTF, so I can see who I trust ahead of time. I have two spots on my property that I’ve set up with travel trailer hookups, and I’m looking for either a single retired man with his own trailer or a couple for each spot. I am offering them a free spot to live in exchange for help around the place now, and to be part of my ‘group’ after the collapse. You’d think there would be plenty of people jump at the chance for free rent and utilities, but I’m having a tough time finding anyone. My son was going to take one of the spots, even came here and stayed for almost a year, but he couldn’t abide by my ‘no drinking on my property’ rules, and he left.
You may want to rethink allowing strangers to set up camp on your property in exchange for their “help” around the place. My in-laws have done just that. It worked out for a bit, but then he stopped working. He’s freeloading a rent-free place to live, and now my in-laws are having trouble evicting the guy and his family! They are afraid of him trashing the place when they are gone.
Please heed this.
Tiny,
you are wise to mention this concern. In fact, even more so than getting rid of a regular “renter”, it may cause worse problems. With a regular renter, one usually has damage deposit/contract/specifics for both parties should they wish to terminate same.
with “just letting them set up home” on your property (regardless if you think they will help with chores), and even to providing some utility services, you end in different legal territory. I am thinking I have heard of some in this situation who have claimed “squatters’ rights”, and even laid claim to part of the property.
What you could do is set up to charge them rent with the agreement of paying them that same amount for certain chores around the home or x amount per hour for x amount of hours to equal the rent amount. If they stop working then they would still need to pay the rent or vacate.
I think a signed contract would have gone a long ways in simplifying the eviction process. I have 2 houses on my property, I live in one and rent the other out. I would never think to let someone move into that house without a rental contract being signed by both parties. It would be the same for moving a trailer onto the property. You would have the same type of contract a mobile home park would have.
What part of the country are you located might be a key to those Preppers like myself that might be interested.
Central California. I know, I know, no one needs to repeat the mantra ‘get out of California!’ (but, really, do you all want all the people from California living in YOUR backyard? LOL)
I might be interested, I don’t drink but I have a medical card for 2 disabilities. I love gardening, hunting and raising animals.
And you have your own mobile home/trailer/camper/what not to live in?
I have all the hookups, but no trailers…
(‘medical card’? Are you saying what I think you’re saying? cuz I have a medical card too, and grow my own meds)
You should patch up your differences with your son. He will be your best choice for someone to help you and if the SHTF there probably won’t be much alcohol available, at least until someone figures how to rig up a still.
The only differences I have with my son are that he wants to drink and act stupid at my house, and I don’t allow that. Been there done that, and have suffered enough already in my lifetime over drunk and stupid people, they aren’t going to do it at my house.
Will I let anyone in? Not just anyone, but I would let some in that I trust to pull their weight and make a significant contribution. Anyone that comes in will be on a trial basis until they have proven they can be trusted and that they fit in. I am pretty good at sizing up a person initially, but I also know that I might misjudge someone, so they will have to prove their merit.
It may be difficult for some people to turn away those that they know, but if those people only eat your food and take advantage of your shelter and safety without offering an equal return with something, then they will only be a drag to your survival.
The reason why I would consider letting some others in to the retreat is because I know I will need some extra help with everything, including extra bodies for security. The risk with letting in more people is the extra mouths to feed. That’s AT LEAST 2,000 calories a day, probably more because people will be working hard. Where’s that food going to come from? I have extra food storage but that will eventually run out. How many calories will come from a garden and hunting or trapping? These are all things that people need to think about (count the calories).
This is why it is very advantageous to keep lots of extra food storage, more than just for you. If you bring others in out of necessity, you will be able to feed them until you are able to be more self sufficient with your food sources.
How would I get rid of someone who doesn’t fit in? They would know up front that they are on a temporary basis until proven they will fit in. If I need to get rid of someone after that time, then they will be asked nicely to move along and I will give them some food and supplies to be on their way. If their departure needs to be enforced, then so be it.
If you bring someone else in who is not a member of your family or your best friend from childhood, then I would advise hiding most of your food and supplies where your “guests” won’t find them. If they turn on you, they may take everything with them when (and if) they agree to leave. The more you seem to have, the more risk that they might kill you for retreat and supplies. It has happened before. Look how many times an heir has killed someone in order to get the inheritance sooner.
The hardest part of this possibility would be getting rid of the unwanted once they’ve seen your operation and security. This is especially true if the parting of ways are forced and unpleasant because they may come back with re-enforcements. Hard to be a Christian in these circumstances.
‘Getting rid of’ presents more problems than shooting and burying.
They know ‘everything’; I mean everything they know will be spread far and near quickly.
By the way. I’m searching for small house/2 acres in the country; downsizing.
I’m really sorry I let several know what I have.
Will NOT make that mistake again!!
I have no friends, family, neighbors to speak of here. Will definitely have no neighbors where I move. Liabilities aren’t desirable when TSHTF.
If they aren’t stocking supplies and food, they are liabilities.
Immediate family.
But tell no one of your BOL!
Each person you let in you have to feed and water.
Unless they can contribute……….
it takes about 60 combatants to secure a small base properly using 2 roving, 6 static ( one position min on each side. one gate/tower, and i command/control position. 8 x 2 =16 position x 5 people for 24/7 coverage= 80 people
most people don’t think about this type of numbers but this is a reinforced platoon size small security base/ retreat. for long term needs this many and more are needed. estimate minium 50 couples plus kids which is a small village to survive
Most of us would be forced into uneasy alliances. When people hear “survival retreat”, they tend to think “commune”. These never worked in the golden age of hippies, and they won’t work now. If one of your “group” senses that they are being pushed out, they’ll probably take preemptive action.
How about the other side of the coin? I’m a full time RV’er. My wife & I & two german shepherds share a class A coach with several guns, a few bibles & a cat. We tow a small trailer PACKED with tools. We’ve got skills. We’ll make wherever we are. But we’re kind of fussy about who we chum around with. I don’t want to get anywhere near someone who is going to run a post-SHTF operation in a dictatorial fashion. It’s impossible to please all of the people all of the time AND its impossible to agree with anybody all of the time. If you doubt those statements, ask your wife/husband… What’s important to me is the operational administration. What are the rules? I’m not a drinker, nor do I use drugs or tobacco. But I know prohibition does not work on a community level. I also know freeloading and prima donnas DESTROY organizational morale. So my question is: What rules are codified? How will disagreements be settled? When the time comes to part ways, will I be given a couple of days to load up my stuff and allowed to peaceably depart? Or will I be run off at gun point with half my belongings seized ‘for the benefit of the community in payment of uncollected rent’? Will the property owner operate as a local ‘Lord’ who rides around on a golf cart dispensing orders & commands? Or will there be a disciplinary tribunal? A council of leaders? How will the organization be setup & run on a daily basis?
I fear that there would be a bunch of small, warring city/states run by dictators (gangs)
estimate for small village 50 couples plus children(60 kids) =160 people
160 x coor wheat (6.2 bu.)=992 bu. + 148 bu(spillage 15 %)/35bu. per acre=33 acres wheat
160 X _62 bu oats ( 2 bu rolled oats, 60bu for livestock )/35 bu acre 320 acre
160 x 100 bu corn( 2bu corn meal, 98 bu for small livestock and pigs)= 160 acre corn
160 x 360 # potatoes ( 57600 # plus 15 % spoilage + 15 % reseeding)= 75000 # /5000#= 15 acre potatoes
160 x 120 # dry beans= 19200/ 1000# acre= 19.2 acre
160 x .35 acre for vegetables =56 acre vegetable gardens
160 x 5 acre grass for hay and grazing(80 beef cows, 20 milk cows, 40 large horse)= 800 acres
total min acre for 50 family village /retreat 1403 acre/2.25 sq. miles of land
so to maintain a long term retreat a single family cant provide labor , gardening security, maintenance, livestock, child care , sanity without a large group to secure the necessity for life so your going to have to eventually let people in.
Immediate family only (rather large actually). My neighbor will have immediate family, plus several preselected trusted friends that can contribute. Between our two places, we should be able to manage for quite a long time.
My immediate family would be the LAST people I would consider for my community. They give white trash a bad name.
Some people are saying that their family will be welcome. I wonder if this is just because they are family or if this is because their family are good choices for the retreat? I question it because not everyone (just because they are family) may be a good choice. At what point do family bonds become a detriment to your survival? A challenging question, and maybe a difficult one.
I would take in our kids, grandkids, my sisters kids (my sister already lives with me), my brother and his kids with grandkids. My husbands family is all gone now. No cousins, nieces, nephews as we have been out of contact for many many years now, I don’t even think they know where I live now. There is only one person outside our immediate family I would invite in. He has actually lived with us in the past and is a hard worker. Beyond that I don’t think we would let anyone else in.
Our little circle already includes 2 EMT’s, a pharmacy technician, an electrician, a toolmaker, electronics technician, knitters, crocheters, hunters, military and ex-military, with several that have canned, smoked, and jerked meat as well as gardened, and raised chickens.
Family are the first to screw ya, so think hard on this one folks.
This discussion makes me think of the scene from ‘Earth Abides’ where they let a new, previously unknown, man into their group and that end resolution. Sitting in the comfort of my own pre-SHTF home I’d vote the same way that group did, but in reality…? It would be difficult. I’d need to toughen up.
I have my BOL setup out of State. Made the mistake of giving keys to family members in case they got there before me. Now they want to use is as THEIR vacation retreat with their wife and kids and my wife has family that’s wants to “borrow” the place for their summer vacations as well.
“My wife wants to know if we can use your place next week.”
Had the same relatives (family) over to check it out all they want to do is eat your food, shoot your ammo and leave. Had 2 four wheelers broken because “family” members have to let their kids ride MY shit.
NO ONE gets access to MY shit anymore. You can pick your friends but NOT your family.
As the last poster stated, FAMILY is the first to screw you over.
SHARE NOTHING WITH THOSE WHO WON’T HELP THEMSELVES!!
Sometimes it’s hard to admit… but family can be the last ones to include. I have been at many family get-togethers and thought to myself… I would never spend time with most of these people if they weren’t family. I have one brother and six sisters. Most of my family, including my wife, think that my brother and I are conspiracy nuts for trying to be prepared for when the SHTF. I’ve decided that having family is God’s way of teaching us how to get along with the rest of world. I have family, relatives, friends and/or coworkers (what I would consider fair weather friends) that I would never entrust important info like my BOL or the type and number of guns and the amount of ammo, etc that I have. They are not preppers so I know that they have no reserves and will be totally dependent on the government when the SHTF. I know that they would sell me out to the authorities in a heartbeat in order to save themselves or try to win favor with the authorities. I can count on one hand the number of people that I would truly trust with my life when the SHTF… my brother and a couple of other prepper conspiracy nuts like us. My 23 year old daughter thinks like I do and is almost as good as I am with my 9mm. She wants to get off the grid and get back to basics. She’s looking for a God fearing man that thinks like she does. God bless and good prepping to you all.
Good questions. Reminds me of the set of triage parameters that one must apply during a medical overload following a local disaster scenario. A sorting process due to a situation no one predicted, catches all of us in the millions of different ways we lead our lives, what we happened to be doing, where, when… It just happens and a process is needed to deal with it. Like triage, a K.I.S.S. adage solution becomes necessary. Those who just won’t make it – no resources spent upon them. Those who can wait, wait and see if they are aided. Those who require immediate care are given it provided they are found to be worth the effort in terms of survivability and what resources are available.
Apply that to this. It takes a group first or your resources will be over-run and all is a moot point. The more capable individuals, the more resources, the more ‘incoming’ that can be handled safely and with an expectation of a positive outcome. Also, once the process is begun, rules for giving, acceptance, the considerations of manpower and resources known and met, those rules can be applied on the fly.
There will be those that must be turned away, quickly. Whatever means becomes necessary to do so and for you/us/the group to survive. There will be those who will have to wait – be checked out further, put to a test of worth. And then, there will be those the group can take in with minimal worry or ‘cost’ to the group. All factors that must be decided upon now, in advance. By the individual, by the group, whichever now exists. And those whole subset of questions begun to be posed here are a crucial ones to decide on now, while we yet have time to do so.
Personally, though I tend like many to just want to be left alone to ride it out with a very few about me……. I realize that that is impossible and I must retain my humanity, morals and ethics….. or lose myself – not survive in a sense. My answer becomes a question in the long-run, “what is the purpose of survival if the future you create is not worth living in?”
Anyone looking for a place out of the big cities should consider White Sulphur Springs, Montana
two hours from state largest city on a two lane road that ends up going through mountains. Fairly isolated site. small town. 950 residents. lots of property in the area. low cost of living.
Has anybody started to think recovery & what rules it would take to rebuild a country? Maybe an edit of the Bill of Rights to prevent some of the problems that got us (America) to this point? Specifically, clauses that address differing tax rates as opposed to a flat tax, allowable sovereign debt, entitlements, treason offenses (lobbyists & corrupt politicians) and public executions, A PEACEABLE METHOD OF CITIZENS FORCING THE OVERTURN OF UNCONSTITUTIONAL LAWS (its a republic not a democracy), specific trade agreements to protect America’s interests, etc. What would it take to rebuild? If I were part of a group that addresses those issues, how would I feel if some federal idiot in the chain of succession came along and DEMANDED that our group resubmit to the broken system that failed? How far should a group go to rebuild? What about other sovereign nations that have designs on our territory & resources?
Sorry for the tangent, not answering the original question.
I would want ALL strangers to prove themselves first. Maybe set up a camp close enough for mutual assistance but far enough to not be a threat to security. Family & friends are the first to take advantage of you. I want to see if someone has their head screwed on tight & has taken some steps to prepare themselves. Also how they respond to a situation would tell me Volumes. Are they a paranoid, trigger happy nut job or do they have common sense? Do they know how to solve problems without drama? Nobody can be prepared for EVERY situation, but some people have an ability to adapt & succeed. Values are crucial! If someone in the group buys the farm, will they take advantage of the widow & children or will they try to protect & look out for the vulnerable. In a realistic fashion…
If you have fallen into the modern thinking of devalueing family and allowed your family to become strangers; then I would agree with those who question allowing family in. On the other hand, if you have tried to continued to hold to traditional values and not allowed the family to defined by the latest liberal whim then I would say you take care of your own. “You spend time with your family? Because a man that doesn’t spend time with his family can never be a real man.” Don Corleone
Truth is we all have some family members that real bright. But my kids and their kids are still my family and they would be in.
Fortunately we have a very close family, and if SHTF happens we would have a total of 3 EMTs, 3 highly trained ex-military, 3 LE, and everyone else over 18 can shoot both the rifles and handguns (the next youngest is 5). We always help each other out now, I think that will only increase if things in the world go bad.
The only problem I see is one of the family members does have a ‘we must save the world’ attitude, so there may be some strife in insisting the rest of the world stays – out there.
You are very fortunate indeed. We have none of that, no ability to save or prep, much less procure firearms and training, don’t own a home, and one of us has serious medical condition requiring Rx. We would not rely on family as all are liberals to the hilt, and to have a property such as the one pictured would be a dream. I understand prepping and why–but we’ll be among the unlucky ones. Very frightening and stressful to contemplate–but even though our story is not typical and we would hope someone out there could help when this eventuality happens–I have to say that you should be careful not to allow your group to be endangered by hard-luck stories from sociopaths who are criminals in disguise. Trust your instincts and look for “tells.” My sense is that Americans are going to get very ugly if things go south. I’m not seeing anything but self-centered entitlement out there–and that’s among the mid to upper income white demographic.
Immediate family of course. I have a few friends I would welcome and trust just as I have a few friends I would not welcome or trust. No strangers. But the problem is that with any group of people their will be drama/subterfuge/jealousy/conspiracy. Sooner or later these forces will spill over into violence. If you have a retreat/home and invite someone in then you probably think that you are in charge. What does the invited guest think? What if it is a lone male and every day your wife looks more attractive to him? What if it is an alpha male and everyday your “command” looks more stupid and inept to him? Will everyone be armed? Will anyone drink or be in need of drink? The more people the more conflicts and under currents of dissent.
Let me add an opinion to the issue; I am not convinced that having lots of people so that you can post guards provides you with any more safety then having just two people who as a result have a much smaller footprint and attract less attention. I think the risks of being discovered and thus attacked increase not decrease with greater numbers. It may seem contrary to popular belief but it makes sense. Send 50 of your closest friends into the woods to all hide together then try to find them. Now send two and do the same. Which group will be easier to find? I bet I will hear the 50 people a mile away and be able to follow their trail while blindfolded.
That’s a good point Gone. However where we live its a high density area as far as people go anyway, so there simply is no staying under the radar. In our case a large group would present a deterent to most people.
Good points, GWTW.
We live in an older section of the suburbs, (few miles outside small city of 100K pop.), houses are small (<1,000 sq/ft) with big yards (1/3-acre). Been here 7 years, neighbors are friendly but a bit stand-offish. Most are gun-owners, though, and I'm assuming they have some type of preps working, but nobody says anything.
I'm also assuming that when the SHTF they will at least be amenable to a common defense – we can cover each other's houses pretty good with inter-locking fire (2 – 4 people per household).
As far as letting people in, they would have to be those we know well, and would have to "bring something to the table" – my first responsibility is to protect and provide for my wife and daughter.
This will be a most difficult situation.
Anyone who knows you have a “vacation home”, BOL, or whatever you call it, will plan on going there when sthf, bringing their families, and their families, and ad nauseum.
You may want/need some folks there, but, be careful what you ask for.
This may be a situation that requires utmost OPSEC.
My prepper community = brother in law and his family, my son and his wife, my daugther and her husband and my wife. All proven trustworthy and all have prepper mindsets and are decent people. I am the 24/7 prepper and we practice skills together once a month. Otherwise, no one would see us any different in our small community. We all live within walking distance of each other. My wife and I recently took in our 17 year old niece. she is slowly coming on board. However, in a SHTF none of her friends would be welcome she is being instructed that providing any of the preps or even info on them to the “long hairs” = banishment and or floggings 🙂
My plan is to recruit able bodied adults. Shit hitting the fan is the best time to recruit. 2 cases of campbell soup would feed ten people for a month. 3 cases would be 30 people for a month or 10 for 3 months. From there do the math and consider your needs..
I would only pick reasonably healthy and intelligent families, man, woman, 2 children. No one overweight or with serious medical concerns. Both adults provide necessary services to the group (security, medical etc) while their children are the insurance policy that they dont run off with equipment or to change sides. Timing is crucial in that they need to be in a position to appreciate the help when offered and to offer loyalty. Singles would take what they could get and disappear. The prepper kit should include 10 back packs which include uniforms, boots and necessary gear. The uniforms bring group cohesion and act as a deterrent to gangs and such. I could write a book on this but good topic.
my2cents…
“2 cases of campbell soup would feed ten people for a month”…
seriously?… seems a little short on the provisions/calorie count…
you must be one seriously small eater…
I think something is wrong with your math. Best case is only about 50 calories per day per person — less if you pick lower calorie soups.
I’ve never understood the idea of low calorie food. If you are really concerned about calories, eat less food. You *could* even get some exercise.
A humorous thought, for me anyway. Jimmy Dean sells breakfast sandwiches. A few years ago they came out with a ‘lite’ scheme. 1/3 less calories. Also had four sandwiches rather than six. Cost more per package.
Alright, math, small eater, i get it, its not fun unless we split some hairs. So uh, what tasty post nuke yummies are you going to make with your flour and granola?
The point is that it is as easy and cost effective to store food for others as well as for yourself, soup or otherwise (supplements can be added der). I never read discussions on this. I suggest its use as a recruitment tool for quality people. Medical supplies work as well.
As far as calories are concerned, I cannot think of one person that isnt hopelessly overweight. Its an affliction affecting almost all Americans. Im not going to paddy cake some fat ass after shtf because hes going cold turkey on twinkies. In fact not to go off topic but I prophesize that most deaths after collapse will be from body shock of all the fatties going without their junk. People who can adapt to less will live.
Hello from Germany,
Prepper from 2004 on. Living in Berlin. Escape Plot 65km North in the Woods.
When SHTF happens this is our Bug out Place.
Who I let in. ONLY Family. ONLY. Shot first ask later.
The People here Know that a Crash is coming for Years.
Sorry.
TTMike
if you’re female, the only way to be safe is to band together with other, well-armed, females. whenever males are involved, they will treat females with respect for a short time, but soon might will equal right. always. in any mixed group, family or otherwise, the males will bully the females and the females will compete for the biggest bullies. it’s hardwired into our brains.
I have a location and another family of a close friend who is in the service with me. We have supplies, plans and the drive to survive. Water, food and protection with enough people to stand guard while others rest. I dont think I would let anyone in, if you dont prepare why should we help others out when all its doing is decreasing our stocks.
I am a newbie at this but we are getting started. As for who we would include would depend on what help/skills they can provide. My family consists of a military man, a mechanic, a computer & electronic whiz kid and myself who has a medical background, gardens, sews, knits etc. The men hunt and fish. We have some food storage (long and short term). We are getting chickens this year. (We are city dwellers). Other people that we might welcome to join us would need to have some skills that would be beneficial to the group…and hopefully be able to augment supplies.
As for how to get rid of someone? That would be difficult as they will know where and what you have. Hopefully we will have chosen wisely.
my daughter and her family, my husband and his family, sister and grambrell family