We Have a Problem – The Aftermath


Set the stage:

The $hit has hit the fan. A ‘bank holiday’ has been declared and the dollar has collapsed…having lost 40% of what it was just a few days ago. The reasons for the collapse are not relevant any more. Most people don’t understand why it happened, and are now truly in dire straights.

The DOW has collapsed to 5,000, gold is now $5,000 an ounce and climbing. Nearly all investments have gone bust. The crash of 2008 was minuscule in comparison to what has just happened…

There have been runs on banks as people need money for food. Truckers have been stranded all over the country, and when the trucks stop rolling…the food stops flowing. Grocery stores had been emptied within a few days as the ‘starvation clock’ started ticking towards the mathematical certainty that population will only match food production.

Several weeks have now gone by and most major cities have fallen into social chaos. There are not enough police to hold back the rioting and roving gangs of desperate humans – many of whom were just ordinary ‘civilized’ working people just weeks prior. Now they are congregating in numbers in search of food, fuel, and supplies – just to stay alive and survive. The government has been unable to help them. Many of the LEO’s within these large population centers are not showing up for work, being more concerned to secure their own families safety at home.

The government has mandated rationing of food and supplies, and are attempting to re-establish supply-chain distribution channels (most drivers have stopped hauling due to extraordinary fuel prices and the risk of being attacked for their haul). The supply chains that do attempt access into city regions are being attacked by organized groups and gangs who steal it for themselves.

You live within the urban sprawl of a major city region, and although not located within city limits, you are surrounded by many thousands of others who themselves are hurting badly while trying to feed their families and keep a roof over their heads.

Burglary is now rampant, even during the daytime. Groups of 5 or more will surge their way through a neighborhood and break through homes mostly without resistance, while residents fear for their lives and freely give up what supplies that they have in fear for their lives.

As the various groups of thugs and gangs slice their way through the chaos and desperation, they organize and grow in numbers to larger and more sophisticated forces. The government has underestimated the threshold at which desperate people will do what they must to get what they need. It has become completely out of control.

You are caught in an unimaginable horror. A horror not even conceivable in your mind just weeks ago.


Does this sound like a scenario that could only come from a novel?
Do you think it is ridiculous to consider something like this actually occurring where you live?

Think again.

It is human nature to be set in your ways and to assume that things will remain as they are, at least within some reasonable variation. It’s called normalcy bias. Most of us suffer from it to one degree or another.

If caught unaware and unprepared, abrupt changes can hit you like a freight train.

Many people know in their gut that the economic (debt-laden, bubble-blown, propped-up) situation within the United States (and most of the developed world) is teetering at limits of debt service and phony perceptions that cover up the coming reality, having borrowed extraordinary gargantuan sums of ‘money’ to keep systems going. Despite what we hear from the mainstream (that all is well in the economy), we are definitely at risk for some economic shock hardships beyond which we’ve ever experienced in our lives. There are extraordinarily large bubbles out there waiting to burst…

Things may not descend to this extent (scenario described above), but then again, they might. Are you the type of person to stick your head in the sand? Or are you the type of person to take precautions and learn to adapt to a potentially extreme situation.

This article offers no solutions, but instead is purposed with the hope of having you consider that things ‘could’ change, and change for the worse. Much worse.

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  1. Power outages.

    If the LEOs stop coming to work, the utility workers may also stay home. Even if they don’t, with no trucks running, they will soon run out of parts needed to repair downed power lines, power plants, etc.

    Traffic Jams.

    People will start flowing out of the metro areas. With little gasoline available, many will be low on gas. When traffic stalls, some of them will run out of gas or their engines will overheat, resulting in logjams that will stay jammed due to lack of tow trucks with sufficient gas to come to them.


    When the power goes out, people will try alternate methods of heating their homes, resulting in fires and maybe even explosions. If police and firemen stay home with their families, who will put out the fires and rescue the people?

    Government confiscation.

    Bureaucrats will decide that it is not fair for some people to have food, water, medicine, and supplies while others are going without. They will come door to door confiscating weapons, food, and whatever else they can find. Most of the items confiscated will go to the bureaucrats that ordered the confiscation, not to the people.

    Unburied bodies.

    Once gas is gone, people will have to be buried the old fashioned way — holes dug by hand. I imagine there will be a backlog. Or maybe they will just build funeral pyres.

    Dangerous pets.

    If people run out of food for their pets, they may turn them loose to “fend for themselves.” (This happened a lot in 2008 when people were losing their homes.) But this could be worse. Dogs kept as pets usually don’t know how to find food; they are used to having humans provide for them. Unlike wild animals, they have no fear of humans. They will form packs and approach humans expecting food. The result could be attacks on humans by packs of dogs. On the other hand, maybe people will shoot and eat the dogs.

    Depending on where you live, there could be even worse problems. What if you live close to a nuclear plant or a chemical plant or a natural gas pipeline? Those require maintenance. So do prisons. What happens when the prison near your community runs out of food? Will they turn the inmates loose?

    1. I agree with most of what you said except the government going door to door to confiscate food, guns etc. JMHO but I doubt this is ever going to happen. With over 300 million homes/people in the USA there is just not enough time or people to do this. That does not even count the people that will resist and the time and energy it will take to subdue them. Just don’t think it will go there.

      1. That doesn’t preclude people pretending to have authority to confiscate, or people posing as police. Most people will give in to someone in a uniform, under the assumption that they have authority to do whatever they’re doing.

        1. Quote, “Most people will give in to someone in a uniform”

          That statement is incredibly powerful.

          Also, when people hear the word “authorities”, they psychologically submit. How many times have I heard something like this on the mainstream news… “The authorities have verified that blah-blah-blah…” or “According to the authorities…”. People assume that the statement must be valid, true, or rightfully ‘just’, just because someone said ‘the authorities’. Gullible. But I digress…

          1. Absolutely true that people WILL give in to “someone in uniform”. In a social/societal collapse, one should NEVER give in to anybody for any “reason”. That is abrogating your inalienable rights bestowed to you, by your Creator, or, your US Constitutional Rights. Either one or both, you are beyond stupid for doing that in any situation.
            I spent far too many years in law enforcement in a very populous state, and saw personally, people willingly turning butt up in submission, when they had no legal right or obligation to do so.
            Nope, I’m no Progressive, but I am a Constitutionalist, and far too many folks “think” authority is absolute. Not so, authority only exists when societal norms allow “IT” to exist.

          2. And yet it’s just as important to understand people and why they behave the way they do. A few generations ago the “authorities” were public servants, but through a constant barrage of division and created enemies it’s been reversed.

            From my perspective the cold war was mainly intended to give the “ignorant populace” an enemy so they wouldn’t start to wonder about the man behind the curtain.

          3. If you were to go to the site narlo.org you would find they sell signs which serve notice to government employees that they MUST have a serve Warrent or they can be treated like any other thief.

      2. Doesn’t have to be federal authorities, could be state or local depending on the severity of the breakdown.

        1. I did not say federal I said government, all of them. Part of that musty old document called THE CONSTITUTION with a little Magna Carta added just because.

  2. Ken:

    I agree completely with what you describe will happen when SHTF event occurs. No doubt about it. For the people that are not adequately prepared for it – their ‘Hell’ has arrived!

    ‘To be forewarned, is to be forearmed’.

    You are doing a great service to bring this to your readers attention!!

  3. There are two kids(age 23 and 30) on their own who tend to be irresponsible at work and I give them “MOM” whom they thought they left at home. When on a break, I asked them what would you do if SHTF and you had no food? They shrugged their shoulders. The young man said that won’t happen… I told him, Oh yes it can. It’s happening right now in Venezuela and it could come here if hit with a depression. Do you know what is right out the door of the warehouse that you could eat so you wouldn’t have to steal, beg or kill from others? Their eyes got as big as saucers, but had no idea.

    I left for a minute and came back with food. Dandelion flowers, Mullen plant, young cattail stems, pineapple weed, pine needles, rose hips, a stem of lambs quarters and their seeds and a Broadleaf Plantain. I told them wild rice is ready to harvest now growing across the road near the old fish hatchery, and fish can be caught 600 feet from us, not to mention the blackberries in season at the bone yard, and high bush cranberries and wild grapes growing at the fishing pier down the road, and a wild growing apple tree and wild crab apples across the entrance of our warehouse road, all ready to harvest.

    I did this yesterday to let them know if the country suffers when a greater depression comes, you don’t need to. Those who suffer will be from their own ignorance, so learn what you can now on how to prepare and survive. They liked the idea and we discussed possibilities, while the old farts eating at the table ignored me completely.

    But, I finally reached two people! They will get some of my wild crabapple-cranberry jelly before we are laid off at the end of the month to get a real taste of the forest. Which reminds me to pick those crab apples and cranberries this weekend before others do……

    1. Stardust- good comments! I (carefully) ate some prickly pear fruit for my first time this week, one tasted okay & one tasted great. Cut them off and ate them right in the desert. I also ordered Nyerges’ book on wild edibles after looking at all such books at the library and deciding that it was one worth owning.

      Taking baby steps, gettin ready to stride-rite…

  4. Well, all I have to say is, I’m glad I stocked up on all those serpentine belts right before the SHTF. Got a whole trunk full of em. If anyone’s serpentine belt snaps on their car, I’m their ‘go to’ guy!


  5. The economic SHTF scenario will not be as your portraying in my opinion. The government would declare martial law with civil rights being the first victim. This would be a perfect time for people or groups to gain complete power with blessing of the mindless drones we have in this country. History is a good picture of such events. An EMP event is another thing!

    What Would Happen if Martial Law is Declared

    1. I agree that at some point martial law will be declared when social chaos reaches a tipping point. Probably starting in the ‘trouble’ cities and then eventually nationwide.

    2. @Wolfgar;

      Not trying to pick a fight, but just playing the devils advocate here: And so what that they declare Martial Law. The police aren’t going to show up, most of the Nat Guard aren’t going to show up, and I hope against hope that the regular military will sit it out as “unconstitutional orders.” For all intents and purposes, if this happens the government will cease to exist.

      These folks who are predisposed to destroy and burn don’t adhere to the current laws in “good” times. For any real or imagined reason or slight, they riot, loot, and destroy whatever area they happen to be in, for whatever perceived reasoning. The “I’m gonna get mine” mentality will rule, I believe. How is being under martial law going to change anything other than your rights being suspended, giving “the gov’t” carte blanche to do whatever they want under unconstitutional “color of law” like “defense appropriations”? I think it will be an animal house either way but you will be dealing with local gov’t warlords stealing you blind instead of, or in addition to marauders.

      1. Your under the assumption the government will just fade away. Government is just people but a lot of people with tremendous power. It is in the interest of the people in government to keep it that way. When marshal law is put in to place, food, energy, vehicles, firearms, homes etc, and even forced labor of people can and will be confiscated by any means deemed necessary for the nation, “IE” people in government survival.

        There will be many desperate mindless drones following the propaganda line to help turn in those selfish unpatriotic survivalist hoarding all the food and supplies needed for the nations survival. It will not be a cake walk like Stalin did in the Ukraine or Mao in China thanks to our second Amendment. That said, I wouldn’t count the government disappearing from the story line so easily. History has proven differently.

        1. Our present “history” has never included so many people being aware of what their Rights are, and are not. During the Great Depression Decade, few people were educated enough with common sense to survive without gov’mint handouts. Now, with the self-entitlement brigades of ProgressivePlantationSlaves, with their EBTSlave cards, WILL be at the mercy of their Massa’s.

          The rest of us, will need to actually be self-sufficient to keep from joining those Slaves in their DeathMarch on the Plantation.

          Not trying to be melodramatic at all. But our “history” has never presented such a manufactured and mismanaged catastrophe we all see coming.

          So we don’t truly “know” if the Federal Government as we now know it, will continue to function as ineffectually as it currently does, or will get far worse. Just my opinion/ mental flatulence for the day.

        2. @Wolfgar;

          I try not to ass-u-me anything, and no I really don’t believe that government will just fade away without help. As you say, Government is just people but people with tremendous power. I believe those with that type of power are ultimately corrupt and therefore NOT representing me, the citizen or my interests. It is NOT in the interest of the people to keep it this way. I believe that it is the PEOPLE who have the power and when push comes to shove, the people will lay down the law to the government.

          Governments are disbanded, gutted, changed all the time. Ours changes just about every other election cycle to some degree. They are there to serve US, and as long as others keep insisting that it is the other way around, this mode of slave thinking is a huge part of what is wrong with our system now. Make it happen for yourself and your family. Don’t depend on those sniveling vote buying politicians to create your life and tell you how to live it.

          There are always going to be mindless drones who want someone else to tell them what to do, where to go, and how to live their lives. How is it that the people who create food are now “Selfish” & “Hoarding” for the gov’t drones to search out? Their power hunger does not give them the right to take from me or anybody else.

          The government has been breeding them for over 60 years now. That doesn’t mean government will disappear, but it will be put back into the very small box, where it belongs, not telling me where to live, how to live, how long to live, and how to think. Do I think it will be an easy transition? Hell, No. But as long as I can stand up, or crawl if need be, I will do whatever I can to put it back in that small box, where it is supposed to be, with extremely limited powers over me as a citizen. It needs to go back to its 10 sq. miles in DC, its Ports and Forts, nothing more, as designed by the Founders.

          1. I believe in very limited government as our founding fathers had originated. I see the opposite occurring today with the entitlement cancer spreading with many of our youth and immigrant population. The reelection of our current POTUS and strong support for corrupt Hillary is a good example. Free education, free health care, free food, etc. The problem is nothing is free, just stolen from some one else.

            The power in this country is becoming more and more centralized with more and more control. Property rights are basically gone as all of our other rights and a population that is clueless. I’m afraid the majority have been dumbed down so much that they don’t even realize they have already been enslaved from cradle to the grave.

  6. I believe the government will wait until things look hopeless then offer to take the sheeple to FEMA camps where they will be stored for a future slave work force. Meanwhile back in the cities the government will use its agencies that it’s been arming over the last 8 years to go door to door collecting all firearms, food, and anything of use or value. Any one who resists will be exterminated those that surrender will be sent to slave prison camps. Gangs will be tolerated by the government because they will be instilling fear into the surviving population.

    1. I truly believe that the “confiscation” you speak of will last only a few hours. Once the area population come to understand what is being perpetrated upon them, they will not stand for it and they will not comply after a point. It is their lives at stake one way or the other. Starve & be enslaved or refuse to accept these actions(whatever that may entail.) A few resisting households or groups, and the armed agents of theft in any specific area will run out of willpower and bodies willing to be the next agent (gang member) with heavy metal poisoning. I really doubt that any of the pencil pushers & management will be volunteering for this duty. They will just stay home like the police & Nat Guard.

      1. It is the pencil pushers and bureaucrats that dreamed up the confiscation schemes to begin with. Let “them” try to enforce their edicts. I sincerely hope and pray the Sheeple wake up quickly.

  7. Continue to watch what is happening in Venezuela for what bad things happen. Not too long ago they had a big gun confiscation and are now into forced free labor- working in the fields. Isn’t it Ecuador that is following the same path?

  8. Yep, when we hear the words “Bank Holiday” on the news anyone who hasn’t prepared will be hurting shortly. The veneer of civilization is only 3 meals deep, circumstances will turn ugly quickly.

    When we consider the millions of people in cities, any and all federally controlled forces will be pretty well tied up there. I’d expect a window of time before local authorities in the rural areas start trying to confiscate supplies for the “general good”. There really aren’t enough sheriff deputies and small town cops to be effective, especially if a few fall to armed resistance. Mobilizing the National Guard might be iffy too, many, if not most will stay with their families.

    Ken’s scenario is mainly what we’ve been preparing for. EMP, CME, nuclear attack are all “maybe”. If you paid attention in 8th grade math class, you know economic turmoil, and the chaos that follows is inevitable.

    1. Sadly, when most Americans hear the words ‘bank holiday’ they will be asking if it is paid or looking at the calendar to see if it is on a Friday for a three-day weekend!!!
      I’m not joking.

      1. JJ
        How very true, it does not take much to train the critters in the zoo.

        Give them time off…whahooo and make it a paid day even better. Then they are Pavlov’s dogs in training.

    1. @cossak55 re: Hanjin bankruptcy and frozen global shipping. Saw and read the article. Their economic breakdown has already begun. Shipping containers that used to bring 2k to cross the pacific now getting $596 or so? Trying to get protection from people siezing their ships at port for the money owed them (Port fees, supplies, etc.) That is how little there is being shipped. Nobody is consuming with no money coming in. As NRP commented from another poster a couple of days ago; “Don’t be a Venezualan.” Keep a sharp eye everybody. Be Ready.

    2. @cossak55, Yes I read that last night… no doubt causing ‘issues’ to some extent. We are so reliant on these massive channels of distribution that it’s not hard to imagine how bad it could be if and when they break…

    3. @ cossack55, loclyokel, Ken

      Did we not just have a huge discussion on the extreme drop in the BDI, and the fact there were very few container ships heading east/west?
      Really falls into this when ya think about it….


      1. @NRP; Yessir we did just have that discussion. Beginning to think there might be some all-seeing oracle here or something!! LOL. Not that one needs to be able to see the future, just follow the dots in the whirlwind going down the toilet.

        1. @ loclyokel

          An Oracle, was there not an Oracle in the Matrix????
          Man ohhhh Man, for if it was not for that stinking Pill I took…. HAHAHA
          Anyways, we had best get back on subject…..


          PS; those are not “dots” going down the toilet… that’s our Country.

          1. @ Ken

            DANG IT KEN!!!!!!

            DPMS Oracle RFA3-OC10 on Cabela’s for $529.99 UGHHHHHH!!!!!


          2. I have an Oracle too. Plenty of good bang for the buck… Not really an AR guy but, for the money, everyone should have one or ten of these (or a similar brand) in the old tool box.

        1. @JJ; I am wondering if there is a mistake here as Hanjin was the 7th largest shipping company that just went under, and maybe you took that as “trucking” company.

          1. I could be …but my mind remembers trucking company…not shipping.
            But then again, my mind spends too much time vacating. :-(

          2. Being curious i looked at survival blog form Thursday and it was the shipping company. Not a good sign.

  9. Most people in America refuse to believe that the above collapse scenario could happen. Our country is so precarious now that every weird event is looked at as though it could be the ‘one event’. The Black Swan, the premeditated and orchestrated crisis, or a throwing of our national election in November. ONE EVENT. Think it’s not possible? Look at history. Every known civilization has failed at some point but somehow the majority of Americans believe that America is immune and ‘protected’ from a collapse.

    No one should be fooled about an economic collapse. The Fed bought bonds and mortgages starting w/a balance sheet of $700 Billion pre-crisis(in 2008). Now, we are on the hook for about $5 Trillion. This is a 542% increase in The Fed’s balance sheet. Too big to fail? WHO ARE THEY KIDDING?!! It’s not ‘if’, it is ‘when’.

  10. Here is my take on if/when a scenario as you described happens. And possible/probable Martial Law.

    The Cities and Burbs WILL get hit hard and fast, 1 week max and you had better have that Bunker Door closed and sealed tight (figure of speech). In the outer regions and rural areas give it two weeks before all he11 breaks lose. There will be neighbors knocking on your door and breaking that same door down within days if they even “think” you have a box of crackers (what would you do if your children were starving to death?).

    There WILL be riots and killings everywhere. For a very short time; than the “gangs” will finally realize the stores are empty. The “gang members” will soon leave the Gangs (3-5 weeks) knowing these “leaders” cannot provide for them (no different than the .gov). And when they do find food, the Leaders take it for themselves. Every-Man-for-Themselves so to speak. Total 100% chaos.

    I believe that if ANY large SHTF occurrence really hits hard, and I mean MAJOR SHTF, it’s going to last a very short time…. 1-2 months max remembering that 90+% of the people have what?? 3 days food? And FEMA will/can NOT supply 320 MILLION people with food/water/shelter….

    Than the rebuilding begins. That’s when the preps will really kick in. If one can make it past 3-6 months, well let’s just say I hope it NEVER happens.

    Here is my take on Martial Law….. HAHAHA, 350,000,000 people to control and house/feed/so-forth. OK, so you have what a million, maybe two million, in LEO, Nat-Guard, and Military? Take those same millions, they are going to high-tail it home and save their own families. And don’t even think on the Blue Hats, not going to happen. SO the Pres decides to declare Martial Law with nobody to enforce it, add to that good old Billy-Bob is going to shove that Squirrel Rifle up the first Military’s Nose he sees. If they happen to go door to door if a SHTF really hits….. it’s going to be a bad move on the .govs plate.

    Seriously, does anyone really think that .gov can control an out-of-control populous when even the .gov/FEMA can’t get water to the Super Dome in 5 days?????? All alone setup “camps” to house and feed millions and millions of pizzed off people…. Good luck with that dream Mr. .gov. As a point, when is the last time the .gov stopped a riot? Ferguson, New York, Chicago, St. Paul, Minnesota; Baton Rouge, Milwaukee? Puff the Magic Dragon just showed up with his Pot Pipe for those that really think that any government could stop and save the population in a situation as you have described Ken. Sure in a few years, maybe the Preppers, Survivalists, Billy-Bob and a few others will start to rebuild. BUT life will go back to the 1800s.

    It is interesting that a lot of people consider Martial Law a HUGE threat. Seriously, we are already under Martial Law, think about the millions of “laws” we now have on the books, these Laws cover anything you want to think of…. Even your Health Care… AND it’s only going to get worse and worse…. Max control of the people over time, think that’s called Marxism? Welcome to Nov. 8th 2016.

    Rant Over

    1. Good point. Martial law only works up to ‘a point’. There’s a threshold where the authority/enforcement cannot deal with it – and they themselves hunker down to protect their own family…

    2. NRP, “think about the millions of “laws” we now have on the books, these Laws cover anything you want to think of…”

      That rang a bell with me (not rung my bell, which has occurred..): I have had this conversation with immediate family, try to think of something you do that is not covered by a law: federal, county, city, town, village, or some whacked out HOA (length of your grass lawn-not too long or short, “just right”), hard pressed. Martial Law cuts out the “middle man” and all the yapping, show time.

      1. @ Grey Lensman

        Since I’m in a good mood after my Rant….. Speaking of Laws…..

        In Florida it is illegal to pass gas (I cleaned that up) in public after 6PM on a Thursday.

        AND yes that’s an actual law, OMG!!!!!


        1. @NRP; I just knew that I was a lawbreaker! It’s what I live for, especially on Thursdays after 6pm. It is said that a citizen of this country can at any time be arrested for anything at any time, and that each of us breaks at least (I think) 6+ laws every day we draw breath. Sickening isn’t it?

        2. NRP
          A little off the subject but…….ah…but did you get arrested on Thursday after 6PM in Florida?? rolwl

          1. He couldn’t. That planetsized supply of TP covered all the tracks and muffled the noise too…sorry NRP my friend, I had to get this in lol.

        3. A couple other good ones (I can’t remember the states and don’t want to go to the trouble of looking them up):

          Illegal to carry a concealed weapon more than six feet long
          Illegal for a man and a donkey to share the same umbrella

    3. Here’s the other thing to keep in mind.

      Our fearless leader has paved the way for a people’s militia that is not part of our armed forces. They do not swear to uphold the Constitution, unlike our armed forces. As he decreases our armed forces, he adds to his unconstitutional group.

      Furthermore, he has put forth in an executive order that anyone (jim bob, bubba, whoever) can be put in charge and given “presidential” powers…enabling jim bob to rule your community.

      Pick up the book “they fired the first shot 2012″…details all of the executive orders til 2012 and how they will impact us.

      Heck, they’re gonna commandeer a cow patty and call it fuel for the country. Get ready.

    4. Hey NRP. I believe you are right about martial law. I vaguely remember that during/after Katrina only about two thirds of the LEO showed for work, and that was a local event. On a larger scale I believe it will be every man for himself.

    5. Well, since my stint in the USAF, “Puff the Magic Dragon”, has a slightly different meaning. The AC-130 gunships were nicknamed “Puff the Magic Dragon” in the SE Asia quagmire, and I do believe there still a lot of folks serving that call it so, to this day.

      In the failed Mogadishu strike made infamous by the “Black Hawk Down” book and movie, Herr Clinton refused to allow the Puffs to fly in support of the Rangers. However, I can see some being deployed domestically, if required, by ad spot and tyrants manning the aircraft.

      1. TPSnodgrass
        Not sure you were in PTMD during Nam, if you were “THANK YOU”. PUFF saved my dh a few times.

  11. I agree with the premise that ‘Martial Law’ would only work in cities, and only for a very short time. Whatever force that may be in play at that time, would not be able to exert control for very long. When the ‘masses’ want to go, they’re going to go where they want to go! And the local ‘enforcers’ will want to be home protecting their own.

  12. And in addition to that, the USA is not like other countries, in that this population is well armed, and will not tolerate the government controls that other countries are forced to.

    1. HAHAHAHAHALOLOLOLOhahahahahalolololojajajajajaja.

      Ok, that was funny shit right there. I don’t care WHO you are!

      American men have lost their balls. No such thing will happen on a large scale. It’s happened a few times already (think waco, bundy ranch, etc), but 99.99% of Americans were more than happy enough to sit home and watch the /fail/.

      R.I.P. America. :(

    1. @ sandismom

      Law Enforcement Officer. Took me forever to figure that one out.


    2. Never a dumb question. It takes time to get hold of all the different acronyms used. It is almost like being in the military! There are a lot of them- keep asking, somebody will know the answer!

  13. In the aftermath of the 2008 crash, the banking rules did not change though lending standards have become much tighter. There were old people with gray hair going through the mortgages sifting out the good loans from the bad. The bad loans were being sold by young people with no or minimal education in business, economics or finance in the years before the house of cards tumbled down.

    The old people with gray hair had years of financial experience, frequently had advanced degrees in economics and several I knew were called out of retirement in order to clean up the mess created by youngsters who sold NINJA loans on homes costing $500,000 in 2006.(NINJA loan = no verifiable income and no regular job.)

    As I looked upon a recently evacuated housing development in Tracy, CA. I wondered where the people went to. Some went to tiny apartments within cities close to work. Others went to live with their aging parents. The housing development that my wife wanted to purchase a big house was built in 2006 and was a ghost town with only 2 of 30+ units occupied in fall of 2008. The prices of those homes was roughly 1/2 million dollars. The preferred lender: Countrywide.(One of the first subprime lenders to go under in 2008.)

    Overseas: in Tunis in 2008 the person who set themselves on fire was a food vender. The price on commodities went up around the world. It did not happen right away. It happened when the stored inventory was exhausted. (with subsequent rises in price of rice, beans and lentils.)

    I hope the Mad Max scenario does not play out because in such an event, luck will have as much to do with who survives as any other factor. Most of us on this site are too old to run fast or fight long and hard against the elements and multiple attackers. I do not want to look at my cats and dogs as potential food sources. They are my pets.

    Part of my prep was the place I relocated to which is the primary growing region of a state. I am currently surrounded by farms and canneries with a few frozen food processors to add to that list. Food production is local for both meat and produce.

    1. CaliRefugee,”..too old to run fast..” I’m too old to trot fast, always worrying about something going snap, crackle or pop, sit tight, watch and see where it goes I guess.

      1. “I woke up
        I lifted my arms,
        I move my knees,
        I turned my neck,
        and everything made the same noise.
        I came to a conclusion.

        I’m not old, I’m crispy!”

        1. @ Lauren

          HAHAHA, ok ok, now that’s just all out funny as heck… ROFLMAO.
          Well I guess it would be even more funny if it was not so true. :-( :-( :-(


        2. One of these days I’ll be remarkably flexible again…..for a short time. Then rigor mortis will set in and I’ll stiffen up again.

        3. Lauren
          Thank you, now I know my dh thinks I have lost my marbles..again oh well.

          If you do not mind, shall use this when someone refers to being OLD..

  14. Just read a comprehensive post on disposal of bodies over at Liz Bennett’s site, undergroundmedic dot com. Worth the read since she’s a retired doctor.


  15. I never post here, prefer to safely browse anonymously. However, this article inspired me to fill my prescriptions, fill 3 empty propane tanks for the gen and get ready to can some more stuff for the winter. Thank you for the motivation!

    1. @ KM

      Welcome… and Thank You for commenting, we will always respect the others here, so no worries.

      Good for you doing what you do, I have an empty Propane Tank sitting myself. On the To-Do list HAHAHA

      FYI, be careful of that Ken Dude, he has a way of getting us fired up, and getting off our tushies and doing things that need doing. You have NO idea how much $$$$ Ken has spent of mine LOLOL … $297.52 for a Gen Set on Monday UGHHH


      1. Ha Ha, I also have an empty propane tank that needs filling. Guess what I will be doing this weekend.

        1. Careful now, local regulations might limit your propane storage to no more than 2 canisters due to fire dangers. Don’t want to get locked up before the world falls apart.

          (( I got reported by a neighbor for having 4 propane tanks in my yard during the cleanup from Ike. Luckily when the cops came by, I only had 1.5 tanks full. ))

          1. A neighbor ‘ratting you out’. It’s amazing (at least to me) how (and why?) people do this to others. I guess that’s the Libertarian part of me that really pizzzes me off!

            Note: I’m a political ‘mongrel’ (mutt?) – (not just Libertarian) with my own various viewpoints ;)

          2. @ AtTheEndOfMyRoad

            Really???? You had an AZZHOLE neighbor rat you out because you have 4 propane tanks???

            Please send me their mailing address; I have a few dead skunks I’d like to send them….

            Welcome to the new America… OMG we’re so screwed.


  16. I think DaisyK did a great job of covering a lot of the big threats, but I was skeptical about confiscation of supplies and how that would work with so many of us. After reading NRP’s comments, I have to agree that I don’t see the .gov (in one of it’s many forms) going door-to-door to everyone.

    I think there are about 330 million of us in the USA including children. Last year it looks like about 46 million lived in “rural counties”, leaving about 284 million in urban and suburban areas. That’s a lot of ground to cover door-to-door.

    But really, unless you are in a very secure rural location with a large enough group to repel gangs of “bad guys” aren’t we all going to be in trouble in a worst-case SHTF situation? Yes, the suburbs will be in trouble sooner (especially from hungry neighbors), but over time won’t a lot of desperate people be pouring out into more remote communities looking for food or banding together to overtake individual homeowners who may be isolated and vulnerable? These are the kinds of thoughts that can keep me awake at night because I have not yet solved the potential problems :(

    1. SoCalGal:

      I’m already determined to go down shooting!
      As NRA Charlton Heston (movie star, now deceased) stated:
      “They’ll get my gun when they pry it from my cold, dead hands.”

      1. I’d much rather be prying the guns from “THEIR” cold dead fingers, rhetorically speaking of course. I mean, it would “free”, right?

        1. Was it Patton who said it? Don’t die for your country. Make the other dumb bastard die for his (the enemy). Or something along those lines, I think.

    2. If you are rural, you can bury your essentials discretely, except NRP would need a backhoe for his TP and give away his hiding place.

      To camouflage your guns, keep them buried next to or under a large metallic object like a well head so metal detectors will think its that metal that’s there and not your guns or find a spot in a large wooded area away from your home.

      1. @ Stardust

        HEY!!!!!!! I represent that accusation… HAHAH
        PS I do own a backhoe… :-) :-)
        And land to hide the body… NO NOT REALLY! What Body? What ya talking about? Time for coffee. :-)


    3. @ So Cal Gal

      I believe there is a very VERY fine timeline that will exist for those that live in the more populated areas to react to any potential dangers, aka SHTF. Any areas with enough people to clog the roads on a “normal” workday getting to and from their destinations will be in a HUGE world of hurt. Having lived in San Diego for 10 years back in the early 70-80s I witnessed many of days(hours on end) just sitting on I-5, I-405, I-8 and/or any freeway AND alternate routes you can imagine. These delays weren’t even because of an accident or “emergency”, just everyday traffic. Now please think about those same roads 35 years later with 40+ million people (current population of southern Calif) all trying to go somewhere at the same time. Now toss in a few wrecks and then what? You live there you know what I’m saying.

      The reason I point this out; fast forward to now, we have a HUGE SHTF, or even a minor one, How in the world are those people going to even get home (most traveling miles and miles), all alone decide to trek to a BOL or even worse “head to the hills” to get away from the other 40,000,000 people? Walk? Drive? Ride a Bike? Pull a Cart? I believe it would take weeks just to escape the area (a few miles), and to do what? Have 20 Million other people all looking for that same poor rabbit or sage-brush to eat?

      Now please don’t misunderstand me, I have heard all of the reasons to still be living in the cities/burbs/so-on and I totally respect anyone’s reasoning, but….. BUT one had better really be watching what’s going on in the world and know when it’s time to “pull the plug” and get ahead of the masses to wherever you plan on going.

      As far as fighting off the Gangs? Well that’s a four-fold answer, so here goes. First of all it’s a well-known fact that when attacking a stronghold the aggressor will lose as many as 10 to 1 (or more) while attacking a defender. Second, Gangs, while they may have large numbers, most likely will be very poorly trained and have little experience in gorilla fighting tactics; making them just slightly more than targets. Third, and this is very important, “cutting off the head of a group such as a “gang” will devastate that group extremely quickly, When “fighting” such a group, aim/eliminate the loudmouth that’s shouting commands. And lastly, one needs to remember those that are on the road for days/weeks (even the gangs) will be in a weakened state, not well feed or alert as the “prepper/survivalist” will be. The gangs will be feeding off the less fortunate other people trying to just “make it”, not the well prepared….. It’s amazing what a 308 or 50Cal will do at 1000 yards from someone well-hidden and very well prepared. I will put my bet on the prepper group 100 fold over a wandering gang. NOT saying the prepper will ultimately “win” but that single or group of people will make a he11 of a difference in their thinking.

      As far as keeping one awake at night??? I sleep very well now days (nights), thanks a lot to all of you, Ken, and the satisfaction of knowing 95% of all the preps are in place. Heck even Blues stockpile of Dog-Food is done…. HAHAHA

      Honestly, and this I have said before and I know it’s a bit forward, get out of California, very soon, stop waiting for that last buck or that last “big contract”. My friend, there are a LOT more important things in life. I have told you before, when I and my late wife moved from San Diego in 1981, it was the hardest thing we had ever Ever EVER done, and I would do it again in a heartbeat. The life I now have and the sheer pleasure of living, you will NEVER find that in the cities or burbs…. It’s a true feeling of freedom and reason. I know it sounds stupid at times, but the “lifestyle” is something that 99.999% of people will never understand, and yes it’s more than preparing, storing “stuff”, knowing how to skin and process game, growing a garden, or whatever you want to add, it’s the knowing “I did this myself” and I can do it.

      Thank you for listening

      PS “These are the kinds of thoughts that can keep me awake at night because I have not yet solved the potential problems”. My friend, you have so little problems, AND you already know the solutions……..

      1. NRP, I would say that’s a good 9.5 on the common sense meter…it really comes down to making the decision to change your lifestyle knowing there will be pain involved in the short term. Hard for many to take the leap. It’s a matter of faith…in yourself.

      2. Hi NRP,

        I always “listen” – your wise words are never lost on me I can promise you – and at least I can say there is good progress here. We have figured out what our business commitments are (timelines) to know when we can sell our business. We have had a heart-to-heart about the state of the world and DH is on board (this is a BIG deal). We have found a community that is ideal for us (although no land – raw or w/ a home or cabin) is available right now. But, the minute one is available we are all over it. We’ve even sent solicitation letters to people in the area asking if they are interested in selling their properties to please contact us.

        We’ve talked about where we can go if SHTF with any warning, but both possible destinations require being ahead of the crowd – and may mean leaving behind elderly in-laws if they are not willing to come with us (a heart wrenching decision to have to make). But, if SHTF without warning it will be really tricky – timing when to go between when the masses are trying to leave and before our area descends into total madness. I promise you I am on the right road – and I appreciate it so much when you take the time to continue to share your good advice. Thank you very much, my friend!

      3. I know you said there are no stupid question, but I dunno haha – would we really here the term bank holiday on the news? I mean, when that happened in what, 1933, no one knew that term I am assuming. My point is that if the government wants to keep things from going crazy/keep people from panicking, wouldn’t they maybe try to hide it? Was my question clear…I feel like I am having a hard time articulating what I mean.

        1. Most people wouldn’t even know what it meant. The MSM doesn’t exactly cover unbiased news about what happens in other countries. A few people might freak, but they’d be soothed down by the laughter. “Wow, a bank holiday. Does that mean I don’t need to come in to work? It’s federal, right?”

  17. I just ate a boxed of pasta date 2014. I Don’t believe in the expiration dates.. I truly believe its a government gimmick to purchase items. LOL The Mrs. didn’t even notice.

    1. @Uncle B; They dredged up a riverboat that had sunk from the Missouri River here a while back that had canned goods from right after the Civil War. Canned goods were still edible. That should give you an indication of what is going on with the “use by dating.”

      I believe it was originally thought up by the gov’t for only baby food, and has morphed from there. Most all of the use by dates are B.S. and are really ploys to get people to throw out food and buy more, thereby padding the pockets of the manufacturers and keep the machinery running. That is the machinery transferring your money to their pocket. How is that working for you? Didn’t think so.

      1. As I had mentioned previously on this site, concerning Dates on canned goods:

        In Vietnam I ate Canned Bread (GI Issue) that was dated 16 years previously.
        It was absolutely OK!

        1. Any “C or K rats” I ate, were far better than Mom’s home cooking. Just was never a talent nor skill of hers!

          1. Oh, man, I feel for you. Nothing beats moms home cooking. I never had any C rats that came anywhere near moms cooking! But they were pretty good at the time. LOL

    2. Uncle B:

      Pasta will keep just about forever as long as bugs don’t get in; it might just need a minute or so longer cooking time.

      But watch out for boxed pasta (or potatoes or anything else) with cheese sauce. It will get moldy. I had some that was only a couple of months past expiration date, and the cheese sauce packet was full of disgusting green spots. I threw it away, though the pasta was still OK.

      1. correction.

        I was not referring to whole grain pasta. White flour has had all the nutrients removed so that it will not support life. Therefore it will keep forever. Whole grain pasta shouldn’t be used past its pull date. Humans can’t live on white flour alone, but it will supply calories and keep you alive for a few weeks or even months. After that, you need supplementary foods.

        1. Re white flour,
          It’s had the bran and germ removed, so it has almost no *fat* and under 10% protein. That’s not the same as no nutrition at all. Sailors lived on hardtack (which is basically white flour in brick form) for months on sea voyages. So I think one could survive OK for months with just flour, salt and multivitamins (assuming one had power or fuel to at least boil water.)

          Pasta is right up there on my list, as is rice and beans. Not fancy, but long-storable calories.

          Do I want to do it? No! But one of my first preps was a 25-lb sack of flour (which fits easily in a 5-gallon bucket, with a little room for some salt, sugar and yeast.) Hint: if you can buy food at a restaurant supply place, there are some great deals on large quantities.

          1. @C4talyst

            I didn’t mean to imply that white flour has no nutrition at all. You suggested adding a multivitamin to it which helps. But the lack of fats and oils prevent the fat-soluble vitamins in your supplement from being absorbed.

            White flour (even fortified white flour) has incomplete protein, has no fat soluble vitamins, has no Vitamin C, has no Vitamin B12, lacks essential fatty acids, and is low in several very important minerals.

            If you add some beans or nuts, a multivitamin, and some oil to your white flour or white rice, you could live quite a while, assuming you were in good health to begin with. But that diet would not insure a long, healthy life.

            (Note, my brother lives on cheeseburgers, frozen French fries, and an occasional can of chili. Plus beer, of course, to which he sometimes adds tomato juice. I don’t know why he is still alive after all these years on that diet!)

          2. @DaisyK,
            Very good point about fat-soluble vitamins! A big (5-gallon) jug of vegetable oil (prob. soy or canola) is on my list for when I have more storage/transport capacity.

            And some of my bug-in water is in those same jugs. I get them from a nearby Chinese food place. Degreasing takes a few iterations, but they’re so handy, friends often borrow them for picnics or camping in dry places.

            I suspect that, if kept bone dry and away from oxygen, whole-wheat flour will store almost as long as white. The whole beans will also help with complementing proteins.

  18. Anyone who has not done so, go to Amazon. Buy the book: A FAILURE OF CIVILITY. It outlines what will happen and what to do about it.

      1. The book is now $130 on amazon.com (A FAILURE OF CIVILITY). And it’s only in paper-back. That is a rip off to say the least.

        If you have had small unit leader training in the US Army or US Marines (NCO and Officer) you have the tools to plan, organize and execute those plans for self defense and for offensive operations if need be. You and your organization (family, and neighborhood) will benefit greatly if you implement these tools. Look it up on the Internet for free. Also, you will need “logistics” like the nine classes of supplies used in our military–“beans and bullets”. Look it up on the Internet. If you do not have this unit training, find someone in your neighborhood who does.

        The bottom line….Do not give up your ammo or weapons—ever! History has proven over and over again that once you hand over your individual weapons to the powers to be “in the interest of public safety”, it’s over my friends. The powers to be, “the government” will use psychological operations and martial law to persuade the people to give in and not to resist or bad things will happen. Do not, I repeat, do not ever give in nor obey orders to submit. These are illegal orders and should not be followed. The only law to follow is the US Constitution and the Amendments.

        Good luck and prepare.

      2. The book is available through scribd dot com
        A one-day membership is $8.95 which will allow you to download that document, along with anything else you’d like there. (There are other memberships available…check it out if interested.)

  19. I’ve seen a copy of ‘A Failure of Civility’.

    Those of us with Military Training know what to do.

    The Problem, of course, is getting the cooperation of a group of individuals to follow directives (orders). In the Military, you Have to follow orders. Civilians do not. Everybody has their own ideas, and go in different directions, and it ends in a big argument as to ‘who does what’. And everybody has an excuse as to why they can’t do it.

    In Theory, it’s a great book. Putting it into practice is another matter entirely.
    During the American Revolution, General George Washington had men executed for not following orders. Are you ready and willing to do that?

    1. The cream will rise. Those with the willpower and strength to control a group of disparate individuals without violence will become the new leaders. Those who are capable of violence when necessary but who use it as a last resort and unwillingly.

      Those whose only response is violence will die when their “subjects” turn on them. The average time in power for that kind seems to be about five years.

  20. The times, they are a changin! We do not know what kind of crap will come out of the fan blades, but be ready and prepared for anything coming your way. The economic screws have been tightening on us for for quite some time and will only get tighter. The slow incremental loss of our liberties in this country has been a very deliberate process and will get worse.

    Politicians are worthless, bankers are not your friends and people will reveal their true selves when things get tough and ugly. Your own close neighborhood community is what will really matter and what will help to get you through the approaching storm. A huge problem is to develop a close and trustworthy group of folks to weather the storm with. We have been slowly working to develop a group of like minded people, a slow frustrating process to say the least. After 5 years, we have 3 couples who are like minded.

    We attend a small, bible preaching church and our church family has been a tremendous asset for us in many ways. I know, church doesn’t work for everybody, but it does work for us and we are very comfortable with it.

    Buy stuff, store stuff, gain knowledge and be very alert to the world around you. Blessings to all.

    P.S. NRP has it right – Quilted Northern is the best!

  21. Just catching up and saw the comment about a big shipping company going down. Didn’t realize that it was Hanjin. Wow. They’re huge! And 5 billion in the hole. That could be or should be something to pay attention to.

  22. Aren`t the UN troops here to ensure that the various mandates of martial law are carried out? Have we not had ample time to discuss within our respective communities what our communities would need to do in order to survive? Need to prepare to respond after the collapse for situations such as tornadoes, hurricanes, snow storms, earthquakes, etc.

    I kind of think that stray animals would probably end up like the strays in Venezuela. Hopefully Americans will be resourceful and rise to the occasion. More patents were filed during the Great Depression than at any other time in our history. We may be down, but we`re not out. The world needs to see that America is a nation of over-comers, that when the going gets tough, the tough get going, and that we have not begun to fight.

  23. I have done an unofficial study of people for over a week now. I was going to share it over the weekend but it fits with this subject so now as good a time as any…
    My study was on people’s physical health. This comes from all types of stores,parking lots,gas stations,resteraunts,road crews,construction sites.
    Now this is on my own observations, personal opinions from my own life experiences.
    Out of 800 people this what I found:
    Acoss all age groups most are over weight or downright obese.(72-78% 15# or more.many100# plus.)
    Out of 22-28% left (224)there are no more than 2% (16) that would be in what I would call”combat ready” physical condition.12% (96) were downright skinny with no discernable muscles in arms or legs. The other 8-14% (64-112) were in various degrees of physical fitness. Most were flabby with diminished muscle mass.
    I noticed how many people will drive around a parking lot more than once to find a spot a mere 20′ closer to the door. Huffing and puffing finishing their cigarettes hauling their way over weight bodies to the stores. Now it’s just me but I would bet most of these people are ingesting a couple thousand sugar/corn syrup calories a day.Eating junk/processed food for the rest.
    My point is when the SHTF these people (almost 8 out of 10) would be lucky to carry their bodies to the end of the block much less B.O. or come to your place to steal from you.How many do you think could even get over a 4′ fence much less a 6′ fence with barb wire? Unless they can drive up to your door and you help load their car with your stuff it ain’t gonna happen! Of the rest I figured there was maybe 5% that would constitute a real threat to a prepared person with the mental resolve to repel them.
    I personally believe 90% of people are chronically de-hydrated. (If the pee they are too lazy to flush down the urinal is any indication.)
    So if they are on foot most are screwed if they have to go more than a couple of miles. Especially if they don’t bring any water with them.
    So prepare for that 5% that are the real threat. Probably many of them will be hunkered down worrying about the masses that will never make it.
    I went to my doc this week. I have worked hard to get in shape this year. Said I lose 12 pounds more and I’m good to go. BP was 114/72. Blood work all good. Not bad for pushing 60.
    I’m not disparaging those here who are overweight or have health problems. You know and are planning and working to improve your situation.FROM MY STUDY YOU ARE IN A VERY SMALL GROUP AND YOUR CHANCES ARE SO MUCH AHEAD OF THE OTHER95% OUT THERE.
    Quite frankly, I think TPTB have underestimated the problems they will face when the scat hits the propellor. That will make those prepared to be in a better position than many here may realize.
    Just my thinking…

    1. @Bill Jenkins Horse

      There are a few of us that are not in any of your classifications. I am not in the ultra skinny class or the obese class or the dehydrated class or in the 5% that are a real threat to anyone. I am approaching 73, have bunions, have post polio syndrome (to be brief, PPS means I don’t have much muscle mass.) That is why I have to bug in. I hope you are right about only 5% being a real threat. If so, in this low population area, and with 95% of rural Wyomingites being crack shots, I should be able to just sit back and pick off the one or two (at most) Zombies that get past all my neighbors.

      We are 130 miles from the nearest city — a long walk. I look around the neighborhood and see all the gardens and I know that with Walmart 60 miles away, most of the people in town stock up a month at a time. So, there should be a few weeks before we have much to worry about. I just hope that I will be able to convince the town fathers to block off all three roads that lead to this town and not let anyone in. We have fish and ducks in our river, rabbits and deer living in or near town, veggies in our gardens, and there is a sugar factory nearby, so we can all satisfy our sweet tooth.

      Thank you for your post. It makes me feel even better about our chances in this town that I had already been thinking.

      1. DaisyK, the difference is you already know your limitations and are planning for them. Such as bugging in for example.
        These other people haven’t even considered their limitations. They would Be preparing if they gave it any serious thought.Unless they are ahead of the herd the possible supplies where they are will be gone before they get there. How far can/will they walk to find something to eat? The logistics of alot of people out looking/eating works against most.Are they going to bring wives and kids with them? If not,what are their chances of returning with food if they have to contend with other hungry/desperate people on the way back? How about the predators that will be preying on all of them? It’s a bleak picture for most.
        Tragically the kids will suffer the most.On top of it most from the cities and big towns won’t have a way to protect themselves. I believe many will stay put expecting/hoping some authority figure will save them.
        The serious threats are those who have training/organization,armed and physically able to and mentally capable of carrying oit raids and attacks.
        The attrition rate will be high with them from other people /groups competing for the same supplies. Homestead /areas properly prepared will have home field advantage.
        My group hopes for the best but we train for the absolute worst…

        1. Ran into one of those today (in a sense–comment on Spacebook). He said if SHTF he has plenty of ammunition so he’d be set for food and water–he’d just take what he needed. I felt like saying “You and what army?” but I’d really rather have that kind clueless about the opposition they’ll face. They’d do it anyway, and being fore-warned would make the problem worse.

    2. People may surprise you. The ultra-thin marathon runner (a neighbor), the triathlon junkie (a friend), the former wrestler with lots of leftovers under the fat (my brother). People are capable of amazing things, and the animal in us will always find a way to survive.

      Your categories are probably pretty darn close, but if you expect the 95% to fall over dead it’ll put you and yours in a very precarious position.

      1. Lauren, You are always right on. I always make a point of looking for your posts because you always have such good insight and common sense.

        I have no idea where Bill Jenkins Horse lives; he might be in big trouble where he is. But in my case, I am hoping that most of the 95% won’t be able to walk to my location. Still, with a couple of thousand people within easy walking distance to my house, and if only 10% are on anti-psychotic meds, we in this town could still have a real problem. Thank goodness my former next-door neighbor is out of state; I just hope he stays there.

      2. Lauren,
        All people are threats. That’s a given. Big difference between the threat of a fat body or a 100 pound guy to a trained,experienced physically fit guy who spent time in the Corp. Those are the guys who make up the 5%. Read what I wrote DaisyK. Being out of these areas give you a distinct advantage. If you live in a regular neighborhood not so much..
        I picked my area because logistically it will be easier to keep the sheep away. Like minded neighbors in a agricultural area along with 3 other groups close by is a huge plus.
        I will tell you why I worked so hard to get in shape this year.
        In February my S.O.. (Navy Seal BTW) told me that I was a liability to the group being out of shape. That I would get myself or others in the group killed because of it.Gotta love the guy. He pulls no punches. He was right.
        I needed to be able to sprint 200 meters in 60 seconds or less. Be able to cover 1000 meters in 5 minutes or less. Hike 10 miles with a 60 pound pack in 3 hours or less. Until I could do these things in his eyes I’m a liability. I have worked hard so I can do all of this. I walk 6-8 miles a day except Sunday. The sprint is tough on my knee but I can do it. I’m no longer a liability to my group. Now all the younger men in the group can do it all faster and easier than me .When I sprained my ankle a few weeks ago it set me back some but I’m back at it.
        Understand my group isn’t a bunch of wanna be noobs playing Cowboys and indians. It’s made up of men and women with unique skill sets. It has taken alot of time to bring these families together. We train for the serious threats and do scenarios like this. The only concern is the Gov.becoming more tyrannical than they are right now.
        The rest out there are liabilities to themselves and their families. They just haven’t figured it out yet…like I said before we hope for the best but train for the absolute worst…

        1. My point was that you can’t judge people on their appearance. You don’t know what’s under the skin. You don’t know what skills they have, if they routinely run 26 miles or if there’s a boxer’s build under that appearance of fat. (Not talking about those who can’t walk or breathe–that’s another matter entirely) You just don’t know, and counting them out because you can’t see the muscles or the training will put you at a serious disadvantage if you have to face them in any kind of situation because you will disregard them as a threat. Automatically. Subconsciously, you have decided that there is no risk to this particular category of individual.

          That hundred pound weakling, with the correct knowledge, could take your team out from half a mile away. No need for hand-to-hand. The 8 year old girl with the innocent face is a blackbelt in karate. The suburban housewife runs half marathons twice a month. The fat couch potato is a sharp shooter who religiously keeps up his skills.

          What you’ve done physically is commendable and absolutely amazing. I’m proud of you. There aren’t many people that would make that much of an effort. You didn’t do it because of your military rank, but because it had to be done. With sufficient need and will power, others will step up and do what has to be done as well.

    3. Bill Jenkins Horse
      Who would known we were on the same page.
      After dh doc’s appointment on Thursday I had to shop at the dreaded W/Mart in town. Dh stays in the vehicle to read(not up to the trekking all over the store)I have to find a place where it is shady or he is not in the sunlight to long due to summer heat. I will park in the south forty if that what it takes to keep him comfortable and walk into the store. Which what I did on this day, no big deal, and was good for me. I am not a thin person, have never been, an most likely will never be.

      Being the 1st of the month I knew what to expect during the lunch time hour, but not the herd of over pasteurized livestock that slowly lumbered through the store wheezing and barely breathing. Our area use to be one that it was rare to see someone over weight, I am saying extremely over weight. Using the shopping cart for assistance to go through the store since all the specialty riding carts were gone. This is what the social programs have created…couch potatoes.

  24. To Bill Jenkins Horse:

    Wait a minute…hike 10 miles with a 60 lb pack in how much time??? Was there any mention of flat course or at altitude?

    What you just mentioned exceeded the standards to become a smoke jumper at Boise International Fire Center circa 1983. (the year I tested and qualified for the jumpers) The course was not flat. There were 2 ridges to cross and the average and starting elevation was approx. 6000 feet. My pack was 65 lbs because I was a medic and I had to carry 3 bags of lactated ringers with IV sets, tape etc. I was in my early 20’s. I still remember that course because it kicked our butts and we were all sucking wind. I guess I would never be a member of your group because I am too slow.

    Now that I feel like a wimp, I guess I’ll wheeze my way to Winco and load the grocery cart with my favorite Cottonelle brand toilet paper. It is easier than packing out elk meat from the high country.

    1. @ CaliRefugee

      He11 I decided I’m not even going to talk with Bill Jenkins Horse anymore, he’s WAYYYYYY to friggen healthy for this old fart to even try to keep up LOLOL.

      I just did 8.5 hours in the Garage cleaning apples, grinding them up (blender), melting 150 pounds of sugar in water, cleaning and polishing my 165gallon fermentor, putting the entire thing back together, all to make 155 gallons of wine….. and I’m dragging azz. NO WAY IN HE11 I’m going to do 10 miles with a 60 pound back !!!!!!!!


      1. NRP, you could do it. It’s mind over matter. I started out just walking then went to 10 pounds and so on. I was carrying 40 plus pounds around on my bodyalready. Just started to replace that 40 into the backpack instead of on the gut,butt,and hips.
        Man, I feel better,sleep better,think clearer. With all that sweating My body was shedding toxins too. My wife told me that my B.O was really worse the first couple of months and the sweat stains on my clothes were weird colors and we’re hard to get out.
        I recommend everyone walk as much as you can on a daily basis. Even if it’s only to the mailbox.Make 2 trips then 3 then 4. Whatever you can. Try to break a sweat. Get your heart rate up. Guarantee you will feel better. Don’t be surprised if you get a sore throat or a cold. Seems your body does it when the toxins are leaving. I got sick a few times…

      2. NRP,
        I just reread your post.
        Man,that’s a big batch of wine!
        I’m curious. Are you putting that in regular bottles?Gallon jugs or wood kegs? Can you leave it in the fermenter? Making wine is on my list. I have a 5 gallon but haven’t done any research on it.
        Just wondering.
        Btw,I can see why you were tired. That will be a great barter item and a good skill to have.

    2. No,that’s on a road. He’s trying to get me in shape to be average not kill me!! Lol!!I have been walking almost 50 miles a week since February. Started empty pack until I could do the ten in 3 hours. Then 10 pounds,20,30 in 3 hours. Going from 40 to 50 kicked my a** for awhile. 3 hours 40 was the best I could do for about a month.It was weird. Just got easier when he had me drop back to 40 for a couple weeks. Once I got 50 going to 60 wasn’t that bad. It’s all in the brain pan as he put it.
      Now I’m not a liability seeing I worked my way up to being average.
      To put it in perspective he can run the 200 in less than half the time it takes me. It’s humbling for sure. My best doesn’t equal to half his best. Not only that he has more than enough juice to engage someone after that sprint and he tells me he has lost a step or two. I kinda feel sorry for opposing soldiers who come up against our Rangers/seals. Those guys fight on a totally different level.
      So I wouldn’t feel bad.. It took me almost 7 months working daily just to become average again.

    3. Cali refugee , I forgot to reply to your comment directly. I did reply though. That training you went thru is no cakewalk especially at altitude and steep elevations. No, fairly level gravel and paved roads by the homestead. What I do is no where the difficulty you trained for. I’m just trying to get to where a guy my age should be. No doubt he is pushing me especially on the 10 mile marches. But I can do it now. It took 7 months to get where you and I would of gotten in 6 weeks when we were in our 20’s.
      I looked at pictures of my Dad. I realize now my Dad was always in pretty good shape even into his 60’s. He never let himself get into the shape I was in February when I started.
      It’s easy enough to get out of shape. We lie to ourselves. I will lose it after the Holidays. We suck in our gut in the mirror and say I’m not that bad. I will start tomorrow. Except tomorrow never comes. I did it until I was made to realize I was 50 pounds too heavy. I was a liability to all around me. Too busy prepping to look out for my own health that will ultimately help me survive or just become another statistic.
      My S.O.is a motivator. He found my trigger. My Grandkids. He put it bluntly. What would I do if I needed to carry one of my little Grandkids to safety 10 or 20 miles away? I would want to do it. I would hope I could do it. But in the shape I was in I would FAIL and my Grand baby wouldn’t make it and neither would I. That possible reality kicked me right in the guts. So when it got tough to make the 3 hour window I thought of 1 of my Grand kids. Then it wasn’t carrying a 40 pound pack. I had a Grand kid on my shoulders. I had to succeed for them.
      It may sound weird but it worked for me.
      I like what I see in the mirror now CaliRefugee.
      You mentioned about pushing the cart in Winco weezing while you grabbed TP.
      Look for that guy you were in those mountains in ’83.I bet there is some of him inside you looking to get out.
      Find your trigger then go for it…

  25. NRP & CaliRefugee
    It’s alright guys up until three years ago I was moving & stacking 135lb bales of hay in our barn. Now I am lucky if I can drag one without sounding like the cereal–snap–crackle–pop.

  26. To: Bill Jenkins Horse:

    Congratulations on getting in better shape. I’m still working my city job right now so I am not able to attain that level of fitness. I do work out and have a good dog to walk with these days. Spaniel pace = the walk 10 yards, stop and sniff, repeat…We try to do the morning mile through our neighborhood every day rain or sun. She loves it. (the spaniel) I also carry poop bags for the dog since she does not use Charmin.

    If I’m thirsty, I drink water. If I’m hungry, I try to eat good food at a sit down meal. I try to avoid snacking or grazing. My current lifestyle is such that I would not burn off the calories if I snacked and grazed like I did when I was fighting fire and packing out people and elk meat from the hills. I do not like gyms. I still hike in the hills with a small pack with lots of water in order to maintain conditioning on my days off. Survival basics are not that heavy. Water weighs about 9 lbs per gallon. Good to know if you are hiking in the Grand Canyon.

    Since leaving California, I have become a heat wimp. I now live and work in a cooler climate and my job is air conditioned in summer/heated in winter. Do not feel sorry for me. I wanted this since I made a promise to myself at age 26 after a series of fires in Southern California. We were going from one fire to the next and I was getting pretty beat up and sleep deprived so I promised myself I would go back to school and get a job where I could work indoors. (a clean well lighted place)

    If I do not work out, I know I run the risk of heart disease and stroke in my family and that motivates me to keep moving. Finally, a quote about living a full life:

    “I would like to pass from this life like my grandfather who died peacefully in his sleep as opposed to die screaming like the passengers in his automobile.”

    1. CaliRefugee,
      I’m going to let you and NRP in on a little secret. There was no “Rocky Balboa “moments in the last 7 months. More like Monty Python or the 3 stooges. I started out doing 20-30 yard sprints in my yard. (well, more like fast walking.Lol! )
      I had been doing it for a few days. The wife comes up and tells me I look like a drunken turkey when I run. Or the time I tripped and face planted in the grass. The wife yells out the window and says that was funny do it again! More than once blowing chunks on the side of the road.Plenty of self doubt when I struggled.
      I got no sympathy from the wife either. She had been after me for years to get in shape.She has never strayed more than 5 pounds up or down in weight other than when she was pregnant in her whole life. (Darn good Asian genes!)
      I remember 1 Saturday morning getting back home from my walk.I must of looked rough. As she is sipping her coffee she casually asks me if my life insurance premiums are paid up.Lol!
      I’m actually surprised I didn’t stroke out 1 day.Can you picture it? The meat wagon shows up and their I am laying in a heap on the side of the road.They would probably say “what the he** was this old fool thinking?”
      Lest you guys thinking I’m carrying that 60 pound pack everyday I’m not. I do walk everyday though. My BOB weighs about 30 pounds so I carry it mostly. Many days I carry nothing. Those days are easy to do now.
      I didn’t know average could feel so good…
      CaliRefugee, knowing you can’t snack and having the will power to do it is huge. A friend who travels alot does the Canadian Airforce exercise program.It’s like 12 minutes a day. He can do it in his his hotel room in the city.Might be something to check out. It has all these steps where it takes you from worse shape to best shape for your age and then helps you maintain it.I’m going to start it myself. It’s what they used to keep crewman flight ready…

  27. When this country finally falls, it going to be like a huge dead tree, quite a crash. The cities will burn when the food stutterers to a stop and America will learn that the top predator is armed hungry people. Millions of people will get the bright ideal that food grows in the rural country side and head there uninvited. They will not find a fraction of what they seek. They will not be welcome, but will move like a wave of grass hoppers consuming everything in their path. Many of their heads will end up on fence posts as a warning to others, but many will do great damage to others in their quest for food and shelter. Cannibalism and disease will a serous problem. In less than a year the population will be severely reduced and the survivors will be facing a bleak world as other countries move in to try to take control of the land and natural resources creating even more problems.

  28. Leave the city as soon as you can. Deathtrap those cities are. Move to a rural setting if you can. Far from the maddening crowd.

  29. To Bill Jenkins Horse:

    Keep the faith and keep working out. My father did the Canadian Air Force fitness routine as does Helen Mirren (actress) It is a solid, low impact routine that dates back to post WW 2. I do different things though the whole point is to keep moving and minimize the couch time/ booze intake and snacks. Thanks for reminding all of us on this site to stay in shape through good times or bad. Not always easy to do.

    My wife has arthritis and so I cannot get her to join me. I guess my pace in the hills is still kind of fast which I find surprising at my age. (54 years old) others have told me. Guess I’ll add more stones to my backpack. I live close to a large State Park now so that is why I dislike going to the gym.

    Lastly, I lost 2 lbs this past week. Celebrate the small things.

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