Jogger Mauled To Death By Dogs – Raises Questions

cane-corso-watchdog
Image: Wikipedia, Cane Corso Dogs

A horrible incident took place a few weeks ago in Michigan where a jogger was mauled to death by two large dogs (cane corsos) while jogging on a quiet rural dirt road.

The dogs were apparently roaming free on the road where the attack took place. During the attack, neighbors fired shots into the air to try to scare the dogs away and off the jogger.

The incident, although tragic, raises a few questions to ponder…


 
Is it a good idea to carry a firearm for protection while out jogging?

If yes, then what’s a good firearm (and carry method) for such a purpose?

If no, then what alternative method of security and defense to fight off an attacking dog?

Should the ‘neighbors’ have fired ‘at’ the dogs instead of in the air (which unfortunately didn’t stop them)?

If yes, then would it have been too high of a risk because they may have shot the jogger by accident?

Should the owner of the dogs had better control of them (whatever that means) as these dogs are apparently property watchdogs with the potential to cause personal injury (to innocent people in the wrong place at the wrong time)?

If yes, then how would you keep such dogs ‘in control’ while still maintaining their function as property watchdogs?

Knowing that dogs while in packs behave differently, and can prove to be quite dangerous under some circumstances (even just two of them), if you encounter two or more dogs coming after you – what is the best thing that you can do to protect yourself or diffuse the situation (if that’s even possible)?

 
If the SHTF and we’re living in a post-collapse world, not only will there be lots of roaming packs of dogs, but there will be people who will rely on them for early warning at their property. These will be dangerous situations to be aware of.

Lots of questions, but let’s learn from this tragic incident.
What do you think?

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47 Comments

  1. Pepper spray is effective against most mammals. Easy lightweight. Neighbors should have used a baseball bat, shovel or the best, a maddox axe handle. Shooting at dogs attacking someone is way too high risk.

  2. One thing that I’m surprised the article didn’t mention, is that taking a dog with you can be a good protection measure. When I was in my early teens, a friend and I went for a walk at dusk, and we encountered a “pack” of dogs. These dogs, individually, were all known around the neighborhood to be all bark and no bite. However, together, they became very aggressive towards us that evening. Knowing that running only encourages attacks, I stood my ground, but my friend took off. Well, this launched the pack into action, but before they could get to me or my friend, my German Shepherd, who was hanging back a bit, quickly caught up and lit into the pack, forcing them into the ditch. The little ones took off with their tails tucked immediately, but the larger ones decided to push their luck with my dog…a battle in which they came out on the losing end, and soon joined the others in retreat. That being said, I would agree that pepper spray is a good defensive measure against dogs, and is more in your control.

    1. I’ve heard that shotguns are good for turning a charge, even with large animals in Africa. A shotgun won’t immediately kill the animal, but the many pellets (preferrably buckshot) has a huge ‘slap in the face’ effect on a charging animal. If these dogs are feral, they must be killed. If not, the owner should face charges.

  3. I carry a stun gun. NOT a taser; that is a much different weapon.

    My stun gun fits in my pocket, carries 1,000k volts (or amps, or whatever the measurement is), and has an inside trigger so I can hold it in my hand, with my finger through the trigger hole. That makes it almost impossible for anyone to get it away from you. (You would be pulling the trigger while someone was trying to take it and they would get stung and automatically pull away.)

    Anyway, you don’t actually have to stun a dog. Every time I have used it, all I had to do was make it go zzzzt and the dog got scared and ran off. It also scares away some of the aggressive deer we have here.

    As for a dog being a protection, that is not usually true. You are MORE likely to have trouble with an animal (wolf, dog, lion, etc.) if you have a dog with you because the other animal will attack your dog, when they won’t usually attack a human. In the case above, there were two dogs, and if the victim had one dog it might not have been enough. My dog is not a guard dog. In case of trouble, he hides behind me and expects ME to protect HIM.

    1. All depends on the type of dog. In the incident I described above, my German Shepherd successfully fought off five dogs that were threatening me and my friend. Three of them were kind of small, but two of them were a size match for my dog. She was just downright vicious when it came to protecting me and my sister, but intelligent enough to discern a true threat. Obviously, if you know your dog is not up to the task, then don’t take him/her.

      1. I take my dog — but also my stun gun. Mine is a Border Collie, not known for viciousness. My old dog, a Collie/Shepherd mix would have protected me, even after she got to be 14 years old. I wouldn’t trade my wonderful Border Collie for any other dog, though.

    2. You’re absolutely right. A taser is different from a stun gun. I also think its a very viable option to use against a dog or dogs that are attacking you. I personally would rather defend myself with a taser than a stun gun against dogs. Tased dogs will never be aggressive attack dogs ever again. Its a huge pain compliance memory for the dog. Getting tased hurts like @#$%! The dog doesn’t want to feel that again. A stun gun is a pretty good option for self defense against dogs. It just has a similar but different effect than a taser. It doesn’t hurt as bad and the pain can be fought through. If a taser is deployed correctly the pain drops you to the ground immediately. Its not really something you can fight through.

    3. I’m with you. The noise the stun gun emits also deters wildlife. They simply don’t know what it is, so they choose not to mess with it.

      I also agree that with guard dogs (which the aggressors in this incident were), having a dog with you is much more likely to provoke an attack. The dog will be the FIRST to get it and with pack mentality in action, the fighting and bloodshed will exacerbate the aggression… with the human being the next victim.

      Finally, in many rural areas, where there are no leash laws, there is little chance the owner will be held accountable. If attacked, the owner’s reaction is my last concern.

      Good deterrents to have when jogging/walking:
      Stun gun
      Pepper spray
      Knife/machete
      Baton
      Small caliber or BB gun

      ALSO:
      Situational awareness – Find something for offense/defense – a bottle to break? Aluminum can? Trash can lid?

      And in EVERY case – mental fortitude.
      With many dogs, not showing fear will go a long way, but when that fails, maintain the mental wherewithall to do battle. Be prepared to do whatever necessary.

  4. i will stick with pepper spray and my glock 26 if im jogging or my m&p 40 if i am out walking with my wife. I was bit by a pretty big German Shepard when i was a kid and it latched on to my bicep and i tend to be more cautious than others. I prefer for the dog not to get close enough to bite me so the taser is out of the question. On another note we have 2 nasty bull terrors in my neighborhood that have killed one stray dog and badly injured two others and the a-hole owner still has them and does not even show up for court. Its pretty messed up they get out and he gets away with it.

    1. Dogs love chicken wings.

      I hear Ibuprophen is toxic to dogs, so keep it away from them.

      I had a neighbor with Pit Bulls. That schmuck was chased out of the neighborhood.

      Don’t put too much faith in the courts. I don’t want MY child to be the one you hear about as having been mauled, and the dog owner telling the reporter how they love their daawg and won’t let anything happen to it.You may have to take care of the problem yourself.

  5. Glock 17 or Sig Pro 9mm.

    After the real estate melt down, people in an area near us moved out in droves, abandoning houses and pets at the same time. For a couple of years we had big problems with dogs forming packs and attacking pets and people because they were starving. On my street and the street to my south, a number of us got together and decided to take care of matters on our own. The county was broke and would send an animal control office to take a report, but they were no longer actively collecting animals because the shelter was completely overwhelmed. With no other choice, and fearing for our safety while outdoors, we began systematically shooting these newly feral dogs. Some woman several blocks over got wind of what we were doing and called the sheriff, who came to my buddies house to question us. We showed him pictures of two children that were bitten severely enough to need stitches, and one of an adult woman with part of her calf muscle separated from the bone and hanging out of her leg. Needless to say, he thanked us for our efforts and advised us to be careful when we encounter the dogs. Never heard another word.

    Folks, once dogs go feral, it is nearly impossible to train it out of them. Once in a pack, it becomes a group mentality, with all the dogs willing to do whatever the Alpha Male decides. Dogs can and will kill a man, so although they may look “friendly” or “cute”, never ever underestimate them. Animals are just that; animals.

  6. I would have wanted the armed bystanders to shoot AT the dogs rather than into the air, if it were me being attacked and killed by dogs. I might accidentally be hit by a stray bullet, but the chances of that killing me are much lower than the odds of the dogs killing me if they aren’t stopped. I’ve always been taught that warning shots and shooting into the air to scare off (dogs, people, whatever) are useless and a waste of time.

    As for someone coming to my rescue by clubbing the dogs, that puts them too close to the dogs where they could also be injured.

  7. This reminds me of the story of the pregnant walker with a friend being attacked.
    The first man with a gun had a jamming problem; second homeowner saved the woman with a gun.

    It didn’t attack the other woman. No one ever knew why.

    I have a 20 gauge loaded in the bedroom after hearing that story. I will have to get up close, but with all the guns on this street, maybe I hope to scare the varmint with a sky shot while someone with expertise can get there with a bat??

  8. Cattle prods are legal to buy,and effective against dogs,or even human predators.And they are easy to carry.A good co2 powered pellet pistol is a good thing to consider!

    1. cattle prods and stun guns don’t work on larger dogs.
      Nervous system is a bit different but it’s your life, not mine
      so have fun with that..

      I have seen it my self, guy trying to break up a rottweiler fight
      the stun gun didn’t do a thing.

      Cattle prods, really ?
      that’s stupid, I can out them to my leg and it don’t hurt much.

      Bear mace, guns and a bat if you are able to swing..

      Chuck

  9. yeah this is a huge issue where I live right now…much less after a shtf scenario.

    I’ve had everything from roided out pit bulls to chihuahas come after me.

    The worst was a mix breed, about 70 lbs, that was dead set on ending me.

    my 40 cal was my only option.

    kicking, screaming, hitting the dog only made it much more mad.

    upon drawing (tip: practice that draw stroke folks…until it is like breathing) the dog saw the gun, smelled it, and ran off. I was a heartbeat away from putting two into this dog in the middle of a neighborhood.

    I warned the owners. nothing changed. I told the local PD. they indicated loose and aggressive dogs are increasingly an issue. I was told if a similar incident happens again, to not hesitate and ending it quickly to your satisfaction. today it is me, tomorrow it could be an old man or a child that is getting attacked.

    all this said, I think anything that doesn’t end the situation immediately is fools gold.

    my vote is for the pistol.

    when attacked:

    step one–yell and scream.

    if no change, strike the dog hard with foot. in the under side.

    If no change, eliminate the dog.

  10. “Should the owner of the dogs had better control of them (whatever that means) as these dogs are apparently property watchdogs…”

    Yes! According to the article I read the dogs have attacked passerbys before. One has responsibility not to harm innocent people, by allowing a dangerous animal to escape, no matter if it is a dog, lion, or a pushy bull as discussed in Leviticus.

    I have had some great watchdogs, off their territory they were not aggressive, and were trained from early on that any child is allowed anything, so if a child ran through the gate, it would be welcomed, and protected like the chickens, and livestock.

    The breeds were Rhodesian Ridgeback and Dobermans.

  11. It all depends on the location & local customs/ordinances. I’ve had German Shepherds since I was a kid. GREAT security and naturally protective. A well trained & obedient GSD along with pepper spray or a stun gun is a potent & LEGAL defense system. At the very least a walking stick. a well cured hardwood staff about 4-5 feet long and 2 inches thick at the top is enough to send most dogs running. Think about the size factor, we’re at least twice to three times the height of a dog and with an extra 3 feet of stick whipping through the air… One lick makes most dogs a believer in opposable thumb superiority. Then maybe a visit by the local constabulary to explain the merits of controlling his/her guard dogs. A neutral third party might be more convincing than a two party conflict. Post SHTF, open carry & shoot when threatened.

    1. I don’t know about the stick when my friends dogs were being ripped apart my 2 bull terriers he hit them over 50 times to the head and body with his kids aluminum bat and it did nothing. He finally hit one so many times it dropped to the ground having a seizure. Now he keeps his 45 around in the event they come back. Since the owner got away with the incident and didn’t even cover the vet bills. He said his kid accidentally let them out.

      1. Get rid of them. The owner is obviously an arrogant bastard and the dogs are obviously dangerous. Do what you gotta do. Don’t wait on ‘the officials’.

  12. A few years ago, I came across a jogger who was being attacked by 2 dogs. Unfortunately, I wasn’t driving my vehicle at the time. I usually have a gun and some mêlée weapons. I hit and kicked the dogs off her. They knocked her to the ground and were very focused on her while leaving me alone. These were 70 to 90 pound pets that I would often see roaming near their home and they just laid into the jogger for no real reason. I was picking them up by the head and hammer throwing them into trees and down ditches. She would run while I threw dogs but they just kept getting up and running back after her. This went on for about 100 yards until her son happened to be driving by. She jumped in his car and the dogs chased it down the road and left me alone to walk back to the vehicle. I grew up with dogs these size and am a decent sized athletic guy. This event made me see them in a different light. This could have been really bad if there were a few more dogs and they were hungry.

  13. Dogs will recognize a club/stick in your hands and keep their distance. Where I live dogs can be a problem so when out walking I will pick up a couple of baseball sized rocks. I had to use them one time and it was very effective. I always carry a decent knife and if you are willing to offer the dog your left arm you can carve them up with the knife in your right hand. I did once have a very large Rottweiler come running at me from across the street. Luckily I had my expandable steel baton in my pocket. I took it out and swung it to open and the metallic noise it makes when it extends and locks scared the dog into a skidding stop and a retreat back across the street.

  14. Just a thought about pepper spray. It only works on about 90% of people. There is that 10% that it has little or no effect. Now that being said there may be a chance that dogs might also have that 10% group. However with their better ability to smell it may effect a larger percentage than people. I would carry a pistol myself.

  15. “I don’t know about the stick when my friends dogs were being ripped apart my 2 bull terriers he hit them over 50 times to the head and body with his kids aluminum bat and it did nothing. He finally hit one so many times it dropped to the ground having a seizure. Now he keeps his 45 around in the event they come back. Since the owner got away with the incident and didn’t even cover the vet bills. He said his kid accidentally let them out.”

    Exactly. A determined dog in fighting mode feels no pain. none. I’ve broken up many dog fights and it is amazing how focused and determined a dog can become. you literally have to break something on the dog related to the nervous system.

    With this type of determination, sticks, sprays, and other gimmicks only delay the dog momentarily from trying to eat you.

  16. I agree about the stick with a pack of dogs (more then one) and with certain breeds of dogs. The stick will deter a dog that is aggressive but may not stop an attack in progress. A good club will put down any dog, absolutely and without question. A knife through the ribs twice on each side and then for good measure from anus to sternum will kill it.

  17. Anything less than a firearm in stopping a determined attack by a pack of large feral dogs is just wishful thinking and pissing in the wind. During my 30 years as a street cop I’ve been put on the hood of more than one Crown Vic by a pack of mean dogs. If given the chance I’d use pepper spray and that usually worked on lone dogs. But if there were several dogs I wouldn’t trust my luck to just using pepper spray. I’d go straight to firearms. Now that I’m retired I don’t go outside without a light weight S&W J frame model 642 in my pocket and a Glock 26 carried in a Yaqui slide holster. By the way I live in a log cabin in the woods and there’s no telling what’s liable to come out of those woods or up my long gravel driveway, thus to need to remain armed and comfortably alert at all times.

  18. I know that a pepper spray is a very good dog repellent but can an airgun stop a wild dog or a group of 4-5 wild dogs or they will become more aggressive? Once I was walking in a small dark road and in front of me I saw about 10 to 12 dogs. Luckily I was not attacked as it happened before many times by smaller groups of 2 to 4 dogs.

  19. Pitchfork. If you have a gun, you may be nervous and miss and if there is more than one you will be in big trouble unless you are an exceptionally good marksman. My first thought, after looking at these beasts (huge, powerful jaws, stout and very muscular!) was a sword– kind of difficult to carry while out jogging though (ha!)– but would definitely work! One swipe and the bastards lose their heads! But you can’t carry a sword with you all the time.. I don’t guess. Of course, when SHTF, if you had a holster for it, might be OK. Anyhow, the only thing I can think of (for myself) that would actually deter these monsters is a pitchfork! On the other hand, I’m so afraid of dogs, if I saw these creatures coming for me, my first instinct would be to run. When I was younger, I could out-run them, jump on cars, or (once) zoomed over a very high fence in one jump. but I’m not so young anymore, so I won’t go out in deserted areas.

  20. “dogs will recognize a stick and avoid you.” wrong. I had a paper route when I was younger and there was this little dog with very sharp teeth and extremely aggressive and came after me every time! Finally, I got me a stick and he came at me again- rrrrrr– and bap! I hit him in the mouth. He never bothered me again! He still barked and acted aggressive but it was always from inside the screen door from then on.

    On the dogs powerful jaws– my brother said this dog a hold of this guy’s arm one time and several men hit the dog over and over but nothing would break his grip. Finally, another dog came along and attacked the dog and he let go of the man’s arm.

    1. There are countless instances of police shooting pit bulls numerous times before an effect is seen. I refuse to ‘offer’ an arm for a dog’s biting pleasure.If you have a neighbor who’s dogs terrorize the neighborhood and the asshole just laughs, well…

  21. Fire. When I had a newspaper route, i had to collect from this house which was surrounded by SEVERAL LARGE DOGS. I had a friend with me and at one point we got real nervous when they started surrounded us. My friend took out his cigarette lighter and kept lighting it and the dogs jumped back.

    Or maybe a torch. If you had a torch-ready-device with you and lit it in time that would definitely deter them. IF you lit it in time.

  22. They come for the throat– forget the arm trick. they come for the throat. My mom almost got killed when this dog came after her– she stood her ground and the bastard jumped up on her, knocked her down, and was going for her throat. thankfully, she had a real thick scarf wrapped several times around her neck and he kept trying to get her throat but couldn’t. Also, there was this lady in NY who was attacked by 2 dogs… they tore her throat out. I don’t give one bit of crap if they are someone’s “pet”– look at these devils! They are dangerous! Its like carrying a loaded pistol for people to have these so called pets… and they didn’t even need a license to get them! My son almost had his hand torn off by a dog he attempted to pet– stitches all the way across his hand!!

  23. Everyone has their own opinion here. Stick with a professional. Get solutions from them and then settle on one.

  24. I know that my dog in particular is afraid of fire. I think that most dogs would be, but that’s no guarantee.

  25. I pack a pistol on long walks for the 4 legged predators more than the 2 legged variety. People can’t afford to care for their pets in this economy and more and more dogs and cats are simply dumped to fend for themselves.

  26. If you love your dog, train it to stay in your yard. A dog trying to push me on my own property, alone is going to get a ass kicking. Leading a pack… it’s nothing more then a poster child for the pack. Maybe a bit of work to give it a dirt nap, however it’s a teaching moment for the rest of the dogs in the pack folks that refuse to control.

    By it’s self I can deal with almost any dog… in a pack it’s a different game, Alfa dog is killed out right as soon as I feel threatened!

    I only wonder why, the death cult thinks that they will not be treated the same? Mad dogs have only one end…

  27. If somebody’s ‘pet’ is attacking me, I wouldn’t think twice about killing it. See you in court, hillbilly. Dog vs. human–dog loses any legal battle, and owner may find themselves facing charges. If the attack involved me or my family, a legal battle would be the least of the owner’s worries. I don’t even want to hear about a child (or adult) “provoking” a dog.

    1. It’s not just “hillbillys”, Pit bulls are VERY popular with other sections of society and some of them are used to being in court and know what will and will not be done there.

  28. Here is the UPS approved and tested technique: toss the dog a biscuit. It works 95% of the time, and everyone ends up smelling like roses.

  29. My little dog (3# chihuahua) would be in the 5% that would still attack. While the UPS guy is watching to see where the bisquit lands, she would be giving his shoes a good gnawing. Lucky that she’s so small, cuz she really HATES our UPS guy. We put a chair just inside the front gate, so he can put boxes over the fence and save wear on his shoes, lol.

  30. I have carried a knife with me everyday and every waking hour of everyday for over 60 years. I now carry two, my favorite three blade pocket knife and a more serious looking single hand opener. I rarely carry a gun. Most people rarely carry a gun or a club or fire. Almost everyone can carry a knife and in most states it is quite legal. In my opinion this makes the knife or some “found” object the best and most likely weapon. Sure I would rather have a gun but the odds are I won’t while the odds I will have a knife are 100%. Carry a knife, keep it sharp, be willing/ready to use it. You will probably get hurt trying to kill or dissuade a dog or any animal with a knife but if that’s what you’ve got then that is what you should use. For a dog who is biting someone and won’t let go you cut their throat all the way to the backbone. For a dog with your leg or left arm in it’s teeth you stab it through the chest into the lungs, do this until your arm gets tired or the dog stops. For multiple dogs you stab through the chest, preferably both sides/lungs but it is typically easier to stab one side more then once. Once you stab dog number 1 you go to dog number 2 and so on. While you are doing this the dogs will be attacking. So what other choice do you think you have. Yes you will get bitten maybe serious injured but the idea is to give each dog a killing/debilitating injury and not to waste time on an individual dog. Will it work? I go back to what other choice do you have. Most will disagree and mostly because it is a pretty disagreeable choice. But if you don’t carry a gun and your pepper spray is at home on your bureau but you always carry a knife then a knife is your weapon of choice/convenience.

  31. So, I live in Comifornia, where unless you’re a fan of jail time, defending yourself with a firearm isn’t a real good option. I have encouraged my wife (who jogs regularly, and in rural areas like this person in Michigan) to carry her .380 while jogging, but she’s hesitant. She’s carried pepper spray the whole time, and we recently got her a tazer which she’ll carry instead now.

    We’ve test fired the tazer near our dog, which just happens to be a cane corso and looks a whole lot like the dog in the foreground of Ken’s image. He is deathly afraid of that crackle of a few million volts. I would imagine most dogs would put on the brakes if they heard that sound.

    Knowing my own dog of the breed in topic. He is scared of the sound of a tazer, but I’ve taken him with the family while target shooting plenty of times, and he doesn’t even flinch at gunshot. I don’t know if it’s just mine, or maybe the breed, but I would imagine a warning shot from neighbors would just kick his frenzy into the next level. And knowing how thick headed and persistent my own dog is, I think I’d have to shoot him to get him off someone he decided looked tasty. Sad, but true.

    All that being said, I got this type of dog exactly for these traits. I live kinda rural, police response is slow enough that you can’t count on it at all, and there is quite a meth problem around here. The breed is known for it’s undying loyalty and willingness to walk into death to protect it’s family. They’re also known for being great with kids, and my 6 year old daughter has proved that with pulling him by the ear while yelling at him, and kicking him out the back door on almost daily basis. His only response so far is tail wagging and drool. But, along with all this, he’s 140 pounds of not too bright guard/attack dog. I keep my fences intact. I’ve considered getting another one, but I work too much to keep two of these dogs trained and submissive. If someone in my neighborhood had two of this breed of dog, and they kept getting out, I wouldn’t wait until after tragedy to put an end to the problem.

    Oh yeah, and,I have never trained my dog to refuse food from strangers, he just has always done so out of suspicion on his own.

  32. I wouldn’t want to bet my life on this as a first line of defense, but I have heard that sometimes the owners of pit bulls will douse the animals with water to make them break up when fighting. It seems the animal’s instinct tells them that if they are wet they may be bleeding to death, so they break off. So, as a last resort, a jogger, without a gun, stick, club, baseball bat, witness with any of the above to help, might be able to unscrew their water bottle cap and douse the brute. It might not work, but remembering it might save at least one’s life, so tuck it away in that corner of your brain where you store survival tips. Good luck to any and all who face desperate situations like these.

  33. A large percentage of pit bull, rotweiler, etc owners seem to be found to be into some other type of criminal activity and would prefer to avoid scrutiny by making a fuss over the loss of their ‘pet’.

  34. It’s a several step process. But there’s not enough room here to go into it in detail. The long and the short of it is this: despite President Dick Obama’s attempts to the contrary, you still have a right in this country to defend yourself. Simply put: you should become a licensed conceal carry holder and wait patiently on your property with your sidearm for the dog to attack. If he’s attacked you once, he will attack you again. I guarantee it. But, this time, you’ll be ready. And when it happens, you simply drop that menace like a rhino at 10 paces. And then have your local taxidermist stuff the dog, and return it to its owner as a gift. Same if you’re jogging. They make a comfortable sidearm holster now specifically for joggers.

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