SYSTEMIC RISKS

CoronaVirus Pandemic Should Be Affecting Stock Markets

pandemic affecting stock market?

Instead, it’s “up, up, and away!” Something doesn’t seem right. How is it that stock markets have not cratered, given the horrific 2019-nCoV coronavirus raging throughout China?

Have you any idea how much product and widgets are made in China? Think about all the sub-components of a given product that are likely made in China. The US is not a manufacturing nation. Hasn’t been for decades since “handing it over” to China.

So the question is, how and why are stock markets not falling right now? They did react to the down side when mainstream news of coronavirus in China first became apparent here in the US. But it has rebounded onward and upward — as though “no big deal”.

It’s illogical. There are clear disruptions in manufacturing over in China right now. Industries closing due to pandemic. It’s a very big deal!

The supply chain is such that it will take “x” amount of time before it’s felt here. It takes about 30 – 40 days for China-to-US ocean freight (shipping containers) for example.

As the coronavirus pandemic continues to go exponential, the effects are going to become obvious here in the US when shortages begin. It’s logical.

So how and why are the stock markets not bothered by this? Strange, yes?

As I type this, the stock market is up 300! What the…? We’re looking at 29,100 and rising. It all just seems nuts (for multiple reasons)… I wish I had the guts to have jumped in way back when, but it’s so crazy that I just could not bring myself to do it. But I digress.

I welcome your theories why the markets are currently unaffected by what’s going on in China, and the potential for global pandemic…

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108 Comments

  1. Normalcy bias;
    Here is my conspiracy theory.
    TPTB and the .gov are feeding millions/billions into the markets to feed the Normalcy bias into believing there in no problems,
    “Kick the Can Down the Road” once more.
    Give it a few months, we shall see.

    1. In reality all the market has really done is return the losses from last week. The DOW dropped 600 plus points on Friday alone. While the numbers are large the percentage is not. I can remember when a few point move in the market was a big deal. A huge chunk of today’s gain( at least in the dow and SxP )were in just a few stocks. Both Intel and Bank of America jumped 3% plus and Phillips 66 was up almost 4.5% . Not all stocks are rising

    2. NRP:
      I do believe your conspiracy theory is for real. The Fed reserve IS pumping billions upon billions into the market to prop it up. How long can they keep the Ponzi scheme going?? I don’t know, but the debt bubble is so big now, you had better hold on to your shorts when it pops.

    3. While this virus is serious, the hype and non-science based conspiracies are worse. If you understand the math and virology, as well as the differences between how health systems work in China vs here, you’ll see where it’s being hyped. Prepping is good, but this is not SHTF scenario, sorry to disappoint.

      Occurms razor explains your mystery with the market, namely they’ve already factored this into the market access have somewhat accurately spotted the hype for what it is. Yes, many people will be affected, especially in Asia, but with meds already in trials with good results, it’s not the Spanish flu part 2.

      I think too many people on this site are going to see SHTF behind every rock because that’s what you expect. Mark my words, by summer this will be old news.

      1. @Calm down,

        Just to be clear, I will NOT be disappointed. And I’m certain that the majority (if not all) of the regulars here will also NOT be disappointed if this turns out to be a nothing-burger here in the US (though it certainly is a MAJOR situation in China).

        This is a preparedness website. So, it may seem like people see SHTF behind every rock. But that’s the result of what we’re discussing in general – due to the topics on a preparedness site. Sure, some people are paranoid. However this site (and most here) are not. Just saying.

        Anyway, it always raises my eyebrows when someone poo-poos the notion of preparedness. To downplay the logic of self preservation mitigation, is, well, not so logical…

        1. I never poo pooed the notion of preparedness. To the contrary, my family is very prepared and self sufficient.

          If you go back and read my comment you’ll see that I was countering a lot of the hype with this virus. If you understand epidemiology, you’ll see tons of junk science in the news on this, including here.

      2. Calm Down:
        I appreciate your input, as a paranoid deplorable I beleive I will keep preparing for the worst and live with best.
        Any supplies that may be gathered over the lifetime of this mini-pandemic will certenally be used at sometime in my life, be assured .
        I sure hope you are correct in your assumptions, but I believe I will stay with mine.
        Thank You.

      3. Calm down

        Don’t like what you’re reading on this site, then leave.
        No one is forcing you to read articles, comments.

        Preparedness begins with knowing ALL possibilities and setting one’s self up for those possiblities.

        You must admit, there has been a helluva lot of good info here the past week.

        “I think too many people on this site are going to see SHTF behind every rock because that’s what you expect.”

        It’s better to be prepared, than an ohh shit moment. “I wish I woulda…”
        It may be hype. Who knows.
        Been prepping since your buddy, Clinton was in office. Nothing significant has happened since then, but….I have peace of mind. Not lollygagging around with a duh look on my face

        Yeah, there will be a lull in this virus. As with all viruses, summer will see an end. Then fall/winter comes and it starts again……maybe with a vengeance. Phase 3
        Take care.
        Bye bye

      4. Calm Down,

        Would you maybe be referring to “Occam’s Razor” by chance? yeah, ok. IMHO I think that this event is in too early a stage to make any real decisions about it lasting or not.

        People on this site are looking at all possible outcomes for this event, and choose to prepare for a worse case scenario, just in case. They like to live by the motto, “Be Prepared”. that is there prerogative.

        If you chose not to do the same, that’s fine with all of us.

        I guess by summer we may see who is right, eh?

      5. Calm,
        Well, that settles it then; I’ve marked your words. Ken, go ahead and shut ‘er down, I’ll catch the lights on the way out. Would anyone like to buy some emergency supplies, cheap? … Oh look! One of the Kardashian bimbos is on the TV. Gotta git.

      6. Calm down:
        I never encourage anyone to be fanatical about anything. I think here we talk more about what would be prudent to have in stock “just in case”. And yes, we do understand the things you talk about, as there are a lot of educated and street smart people here. We like to joke and have lively discussions here also. I’m sure our health care system will do their best with this virus.

      7. Calm Down,
        There are many things we may be concerned about…in our entire life experience. Ignoring things does not make them go away…or make them null and void. Being aware of various “threats”, can enable us to stay on topside of the dirt.. What has many concerned is the skewing of the numbers. Yes almost every government does it/for their reasons..(Can’t have people staying home and holding money.)…and many other factors are concerning…like,. Not enough test kits OR Doctors to do the tests,emergency building of 3000 hospital beds in close proximity to major water supply, the response of a country to partition off huge numbers of their society.. blockading roads in and out of cities with rock and gravel.. limiting their ability to make a living for the poorest, blockading doors and entire housing complex’s,… COD listed as pneumonia, Multiple organ failure( many times from sepsis- a condition commonly secondary? to orig. insult/pneumonia and UTI and flu?) Heart attack of a 33 year old Eye doctor? a HERO who tried to get word out…( yes when you can not breathe deeply, it can cause fluid overload and heart failure.)…
        Complications of chronic disease.? .. Flu complicates many things. Diabetic have increased trouble maintaining sugar stability. People with asthma and COPD have increased problems with inflammation and clearing airway. They become infected with opportunistic bacteria that are resistant to Most drugs… things like MRSA, Serratia m,
        Many of us on this board are older and have ongoing health challenges. Those control what we are ABLE to do… Controlling what we contact is one way to limit exposure to a number of different bacteria, virals and fungals…and help many of us to maintain our higher functions.. Knowing what we are facing…and having strategies that may give recovery for any challenge, is our way. Burying my head in the sand did not work when I tried that…Just sayin’

      8. I agree with much of what Calm Down has said. More than likely, this will not affect most of the world as badly as we conjecture. Could it? Definitely. Will it? Probably not. I get insurance, though, for what COULD happen, and not for what I think WILL happen.

        This virus has been a great motivator for me, to make sure I am as ready as possible to face this kind of threat. Yes, I’ve spent money on a few more things the last couple of weeks. I’ve been more careful than usual about contact with others.

        It’s easy to get pulled into the “excitement/terror/fascination” of a horrible thing. I’ve spent more time reading about the coronavirus than is probably necessary. As always, though, reading ideas of “what to do if” is just another way of preparing, thinking through the possibilities.

        I don’t want this to spread to even one more person. It’s not worth being able to say, “I was right to prepare.” I’d be happy to die of old age with not one of the things I prepped for ever happening!

  2. I did catch a blip somewhere a couple of days ago that China had fed money into the market. Sorry I didn’t read into it. The ups are temporary at best.

    1. I read the same thing, about China pumping money into the market. The actually shut down trading for a bit so they could level things out.

  3. 1) The big money has decided it’s time to buy in. They’ve waited until they feel the “panic” is low enough, now they buy up assets cheap.

    2) I would also not be at all surprised to see governments doing the same thing. Not sure that’s what’s happening, but the combination would certainly explain it.

    3) Computers don’t panic. They have a set buy-sell threshold and just go about their business. With most of the market controlled by those buy-sell thresholds, human interference is at a minimum most of the time.

  4. The main reason the Dow reacted as it did was because of another infusion into the repo market by the Federal Reserve Bank.
    One hundred eighty billion dollars to be exact. That kind of money would
    make any financial index jump for joy.

    The money that the Fed gives away so freely is fiat currency.It is not backed by any tangible. Fiat is “money by decree”. The government tells
    us that it is worth something and we believe it.

    The financial system is based on confidence that people have in the value and purchasing power of the dollar. When that confidence is gone
    the entire “Ponzi Scheme” will crash.

    The flashing numbers on the big board at the New York Stock Exchange
    are very exciting and almost addictive to many investors. There is no concern for the warning signs of the approaching economic downturn.

    No system can operate under the crushing weight of debt and no system
    can operate when it’s currency is worthless. When the Federal Reserve fails the taxpayers will be responsible for the bailout. With what?

    We are all riding on a runaway train. The only way to save ourselves is to
    take our gold and silver and jump clear before the crash.

    1. @Kulafarmer
      I agree completely though I have a large chunk of money in the market. Unfortunately it doesn’t have to be connected to anything tangible as the Dollar isn’t connected to anything tangible either. It is the only game in town though so ya play with it. I know people will say buy PM’s or land or food ect but I have all of those also so what do you do at that point. You play in the market and use the profit to buy more of the same and hope that the big bang doesn’t come in your lifetime.

      1. NormlChuck,
        commodities YES! Copper is down a bunch. Why?? China is presently consuming about 50% of the world’ output of copper. All those Chinese factories shut down from producing electronics? yeah, copper and other industrial materials going to take a hit.

  5. Some smarter men than I said the Stock Market is a bit like a fever. By the time is responds to a problem YOU have a REAL Problem.

    That and serious Governmental “Assists and Adjustments”. to SHOW ALL IS WELL Nothing to SEE Over Here, MOVE Along….

    AGAIN When the Stock Market shows Damage from this Corona Virus Supply Chain disruption AND THANK YOU Langley for even MOAR Good Work >sarc< the situation will be very bad.

    What country can survive Traitors both Overtly Political and 3 letter sorts?

    Remember to wash your hands BEFORE touching your face, the lives you save might be your own family.

  6. Maybe because there is still enough product in the supply chain, that the impact is being delayed until said supply start to dry up.

  7. I think the stock market is long overdue for a correction and the longer until one occurs the more severe it will be .Some think the market is controlled by the ultra rich elitists, I would not be surprised if it is . They control our money system and pretty much everything it involves.What the market is doing today makes no logical sense to me at all.
    I believe we will see shortages in a few weeks as far as manufactured merchandise, parts ,etc. when the supply chain thins out. I would expect food stocks to thin as well.
    If this Virus really gets going we will see trickle down economic problems as people start staying at home.
    Unfortunately so many people seem to have their heads stuck at the wrong end of their anatomy because of the pablum they recieve from MSM news. NRP said “normalcy bias “, I agree.
    I pray these things do not happen but prepare as if they will.
    Blessings to all.

  8. The market has not been influenced by events for a long time now. Fed pumping money into the market for the last year and half is what is driving the darn thing.
    FWIW, my financial investment guys have been watching this and all of the “indicators” have been waving red flags for some time now. They have been cautioning me about a stock market reset for over a year and half, as the ‘fundamentals’ are indicating this.(They conservatively moved my little nest egg out of the stock market for the most part, and into stable long term investments with very low yield. thinking to protect what little I have here.)
    Will this event in China effect the market eventually? yes, but there will be a lag time involved as others have mentioned. Could it trigger a stock market “reset”, maybe. Most likely we will see that when the Fed quits pumping “free money” into the market to prop it up. Then things are going to get rough. Just the thoughts of an old miner. YMMV.

    1. Minerjim;
      You surprised me, I figured yad have all your PM stored away in one of those 2000ft deep holes you have been digging all yar life……
      Not to worry, the .gov will save us all, Just ask Nancy she just loves the direction the country is headed…..
      PS: I see your buddy Mitt is committing political suicide… AND did not Nancy state she would resign/quit if Trump did not get removed from office?

      1. NRP
        We could not be so lucky to have that bondo, sucking the spinach from her teeth, Barbie pack her bags & leave.

      2. NRP,

        “You work and work, and dig and dig, working all your life away. And what do you eventually wind up with??? A hole to be buried in.” – the Sour Mash Kid

        Sometime back I came up with an idea about life. basically it is this: “It is not about me. It is about the others around me.”

        I have a wonderful relationship with the Creator of the Universe. The “me” will always be taken care of. That leaves me free to deal with “the others in this world”, and what i can do to help them. I admit that I am not very good at it, but I recognize it and I am trying.

        1. Minerjim:
          Very well said.
          For we are here for a blink of an eye.
          Eternity is a very long time.

    2. “Most likely we will see that when the Fed quits pumping “free money” into the market to prop it up. Then things are going to get rough.”

      The thing is, they have to continue. They must. If they stop, the system collapses. I’ve posted before on the notion of how it doesn’t seem to matter (pumping money into the system). There never seems to be consequences. As I shake my head… Even with this potential spreading pandemic, it doesn’t seem to matter. We’re living in lalaland…

      1. Ken:
        I respectively need to disagree.

        You have no idea how many and how much sites like this and many others really do make a difference.

        My God, it’s so easy to just shake one’s head or toss up our arms in disbelief and discuss.

        I know that first hand, but there are a HELL of a lot of those 80%ers that are looking for positive influence and a direction, yes even in the world of preparing.

        You have had such a positive influence in so many lives, I doubt if you even have an idea of how many. Take a guess, how many Lurkers do you have out there???????

        As far as the Feds, I will agree it’s a fragile balance. Do they let it crash? Or do they keep pumping fake money into the system?
        Sorry I’m not smart enough to have the answer, I do know for a fact that if it crashes it will have a hell of a bad effect on the populist but does not keeping it pumped up have similar effects?

        1. Thanks NRP. I keep my nose to the grindstone. Hopefully it makes a tiny difference — all the while Big Tech suppresses the voices crying out for liberty. I chose to do this 10 years ago. I could have remained in my tech sector and continued to make the big bucks. Instead, I’m making little bucks, but I believe I am happier despite it. It’s my own little sacrifice in the ginormous big picture. Screw the Fed and the market. With my luck if I entered, it would crash the next day…

      2. Ken

        You are right about the Fed plunge protection machine pumping the money in the face of this pandemic.

        So, what do we do when we are in a casino? As the pots grow bigger and you have some winnings – take off your money that you invested with some gains and play on their dime. Beat them at their own game.

        About a year ago, I had this discussion with NRP and I said I would keep a limited amount in the market (as much as I could afford to lose as I was up). I have not regretted that position.

        1. But, in addition to protecting one’s financial position, take the money and turn it into hard assets as fast as you can in this coming hyperinflation economy.

        2. Yep Hermit I call it free rolling. When something goes up enough to hit my percentage I sell off enough to get back the investment and keep the free shares. Since I invest in mostly dividend producing stocks and let those reinvest the FREE shares keep growing. I have been doing this for about 20 years and it has worked out pretty well.

        3. I love your strategy of the casino….my DH rues it! Whenever we have a little fun at the Black Jack table, I stand nearby to collect the original wagers and let him play on the Casino’s dime. Let them keep their own lights on! I am not smart enough to understand why the stock market continues to climb while China appears to be in complete shut down, but I do see the day when the stock market collapses again.

      3. Ken: If most people read this blog or similar material it would be a different story. It is troubling to hear that a very large segment of our younger population avoids such outlets with such topics. What they know is what they’ve gotten from social media, so they know only what the media wants them to know.

        It is very simple how it works: if they hear something that conflicts with what they’ve been told it is “fake” and therefore a lie and finally hate speech; racist, homophobic, misogynist, etc. They are like dogs that have been trained to stay in their yard with those buried electric fences that shock them when they get too close. When they dare entertain a thought contradicting the agenda they go to confession and repent. If they dare speak a stray thought they are socially ostracized. What we need was portrayed in the original Apple Super Bowl commercial of the faceless one that hurls the hammer at the screen.

      4. Ken,
        It would ‘Seem” that the FED needs to continue pumping money into the system. But the FED itself has already warned that it can’t go on forever, and that they will start reducing the injections into the system. There will be consequences, they are digging themselves (and everybody else in the country) a deep hole, and they know it. It will likely change when they get to the point where they realize that TPTB will really be taking a hit if it continues.

        Those investment $$$ of mine may come or go. I have to admit that I struggle with having “investments”, as I believe that money is the root of all evil, like the Bible says. But it also says that the wise save for the day of famine. God has always taken care of me, and He always will. Better to be focusing on things that “build your riches in Heaven” than worrying about earthly riches. that’s why I try to help and teach the younger generation about ‘doing for themselves’, prepping, and being self-sufficient. Its something I can pass on to help others.

        1. This is a common misconception. It’s not “money is the root of all evil” it’s “love of money is the root of all evil.” Money in itself is neither good nor bad–it’s all in how the money is used. Check out 1 Tim. 6:10.

        2. Minerjim, I thought the Bible stated that “the LOVE of money is the root of all evil.” Not exactly money itself is evil. Thoughts?

        3. Minerjim the “winner” of a Greater Depression is the family that *still* has Shelter, the ability to PAY Taxes on it, Food to eat, safe water to drink, Skills and Gardens to provide, Good and Trusted Friends and a Relationship with their God.

          Electronic digits are not as important as we think. Too easy to disappear in a flash or be “Legally Stolen” by Congress.

          BTW it’s “The LOVE of Money is the root of all evil”. Some Bible Scholars describe it as Loving Money More than Loving God as in having “more money that God” attitude.

          Money is just a tool, like a firearm. The man chooses good or evil using it.

          Proverbs 21:20 The wise store up choice food and olive oil but the fool gulps theirs down. Other translations add to this, worthwhile to look up.

          Ecclesiastes 3:22 Nothing is better for man than to eat and drink and enjoy his work. I have also seen that this is from the hand of God

          Or as that quote of William Wallace “Every man dies but not every man truly lives”.

          Your Legacy of teaching the youth useful skills will outlive you.

  9. I believe that the current market highs are due to Trump’s speech last night and his apparent acquittal today. Say what you will about our President, however He is good for our economy !

    Also, let’s face it Bernie, the Fake Indian Princess, or Nancy Boy Pete have no chance of beating The Donald in November.

    The effects on the economy by the Wu Flu is coming, just hold on to your beans, bullets and Band Aids.

    So come what may, watch out fur dem hogs children

  10. Taiwan [News] reports in a report first spotted by user @TheHKGroup, over the weekend, Tencent “seems to have inadvertently released what is potentially the actual number of infections and deaths, which were astronomically higher than official figures”, and were far closer to the catastrophic epidemic projections made by Jonathan Read.” 25,000 deaths and 154,000 infected. Natural news broke this story.

    1. And I would multiply that by 10…by 100…by 10,000….we are not being told the whole, real story.

  11. Also at Natural News site. The United Nations ,World Health Organization, WHO, just reccomended that travel restrictions for China should be lifted. What could possibly go wrong with that concept ?

  12. Blah
    The stock market is nothing more than a gambling casino for the big wigs, using our money. And con you to do the same.

    My brother for 20+ years has made investments in the market. He treats it as a full time job. 40+ hrs a week.
    He, yearly, makes way less than I, but enuff to pay his bills and keep the homestead.
    Remember you, too can invest 50% of your yearly earnings……and only to be whisked away in an instant.

    Wall Street what a glorified scam
    F eM

  13. Coronavirus death toll so far, less than 1000.
    Spanish flu of 1918, 20 – 50 MILLION.
    And that was when the global population was much smaller and intercontinental travel was much more limited. The coronavirus is being overhyped by the media, much like every time we get a little snowstorm. Maybe people are starting to tune it out.

    1. Touchofgrey,
      50 million deaths worldwide between 1918-1920. Approximately 3-5% of the worlds population. Even with prehistoric travel it still managed to reach secluded pacific islands. It hit at a bad time, during WWI and in order to keep up morale the disease was highly censored by most countries. They generally only reported on cases in neutral Spain which is why it’s most often referred to as the Spanish Flu. Imagine sitting in one of those cold damp muddy trenches watching your buddies die of the flu. In 1918 I doubt scientists, let alone the average Joe, knew very much about germs yet.

      This new virus has only just begun (about a month?) and it has a much higher R0 factor than the flu. And just like it was in 1918, we don’t know very much about it.

      1. Thanks for the perspective. I just remember all the hype about bird flu and some others. Never really amounted to much as pandemics go. Hopefully this one will be the same. Otherwise we might be in trouble.

    2. Touchofgrey a lot of sources I’ve learned to trust are saying the “Official Numbers” are bogus.

      So far the Corona virus is less than a month old and the Spanish Flu your comparing it too was over a 2 YEAR period. BTW it also started small before going global and massively lethal.

      As a medical professional that worked through H1N1, SARS, Avian Flu and Ebola the ACTIONS of the Chinese scream much more serious than the “reported numbers”.

      Me and Mine have chosen to set up myself as the “outside” working and shopping person and whenever I get home I decon as not to carry potential nastiness though my home.

    3. From what I have gathered, the controlled-media is barely mentioning coronavirus. From what competent researchers and doctors are seeing, nCoV has a much higher rate of infection than a typical flu. Your unsourced figure of coronavirus deaths at less than 1,000 is more than likely incorrect.

      Based on a number of documents I have found, this virus has possibly infected more than 200,000 people in China. How many have died so far? How many deaths were attributed to pneumonia, not coronavirus? How many people can be cremated on a 24/7 schedule in and around Wuhan?

      Do you trust Communist “government officials” ?

      January 29, Zeng Guang, the chief scientist of epidemiology at China’s CDC, admitted that Chinese officials cannot tell people the truth: “The officials need to think about the political angle and social stability in order to keep their positions.”

      Chinese doctors and nurses have reached out via the Internet to let the world know some of the truths about the Wuhan flu. These people are frightened, and brave….they are living in desperate times.

      Spanish Flu figures accounted for a 2 year range of time, and those figures are only estimates. The infectivity rate was quite high, though. Spanish Flu was novel H1N1, the first time it infected people, so it was quite deadly.

      Coronavirus (2019-nCoV) has only been “observed” for a little over 1 month. More than likely, the true infection and death rates are being suppressed by the Chinese government. This particular strain of coronavirus is a novel virus, just as the Spanish Flu was a hundred years ago. The calculations done on rate of infection based on low-ball figures show that it may be upwards of 20%.

      (BTW, The actual global mortality rate for the Spanish Flu is unknown. Wikipedia information claims there were 500 million who were infected.)

  14. I spoke with my investment agent tonight. I texted her and she called me back in 10 minutes. I asked her why the market was up given the situation with the coronavirus. She thinks the market was up today on news of a vaccine. I mentioned that at best a vaccine would take 10 months. (She is ordinarily more intelligent.) I mentioned a few things about the virus–that the real figures were likely leaked today, that China has been lying about the numbers just like they did with SARS, that folks in Wuhan were running out of food and water, etc. The markets had already closed when we spoke.

    Even if the coronavirus can be largely contained to China (which I think it can’t be) supply disruptions are going to tank the global economy. Already Hyundai in South Korea has shut down, Nike, Addidas, Starbucks, Apple have shut down.

    Here’s my take: the hyper rich control the mainstream media. They are heavily invested in the stock market. The federal government exists to prop up the paper money. The media is downplaying/outright lying in order to keep appearances of normalcy. I suspect that right now the hyper rich are researching where to but their money. They are looking for save havens.

    My financial advisor wants me to call her back and to let her know if I want to move into bonds. I want to do a bit more research to see what U.S. corporations are largely insulated from global supply issues.

    1. It’s being downplayed to control the “Panic”. Panic is to the market and financial institutions what the Cornoavirus is….a deadly virus. Once panic sets in, causing money and basic day to day essentials supply to shrink, exponentially impacting demand, and the supply chain is dry, it’s over regardless how much money the feds are pumping. It will look like black Friday in March/April. Agree?

  15. The Left is trying very hard to control/delete quality information regarding the coronavirus. Twitter, Google, YouTube, Wikipedia — they are forcibly suppressing information about this virus. WHY?????

    The latest — I watched Chris Martenson’s video made yesterday evening. He has learned that Wikipedia has deleted his entry. He has alerted his viewers to this. I suspect this is just the beginning for him…Will YouTube ban his videos next? Will his web host ban his website?

    I double-checked this claim, searching “Wikipedia Christopher Martenson”, DuckDuckGo has the following blurb from Wikipedia:
    Christopher Hamlin Martenson (born September 15, 1962) is an economic researcher, writer and trend forecaster interested in macro trends regarding the economy, energy composition and environment. In 2008 he released YouTube videos he called The Crash Course divided into 19 short video chapters of problems in the nonsustainability of our economy, energy and environment.”

    Following the link, the entry has been deleted.
    I checked the Deletion log and sure enough, his entry was logged for deletion. Want to know how to discredit a distinguished medical doctor? Call him a “conspiracy theorist”, attempt to dismiss his excellent education, and throw him away.

    This is what a Wiki editor wrote (that Wiki acted upon):
    Christopher Martenson
    Non-notable individual per WP:GNG. Handful of citations from the 90s and no scientific contributions whatsoever since make him fail NPROF too. He’s now a conspiracy theorist, apparently, and I could find no SIGCOV about him. Sources listed are unreliable or straight up written by him. No article covers him exclusively nor substantiates his notability. I found no reviews of his book beyond known conspiracy sites, so he’s non-notable per WP:AUTHOR as well

    So why would the Left be pulling these stunts, or more importantly censoring people and information on nCoV?

    Let’s consider these issues:

    1. News suppression here in the USA — very little news on nCoV is in the MSM.
    2. In China, the “official” propaganda gives unreliable facts and statistics leading to the inability of other nations to adequately prepare for nCoV.
    3. The news outlet Caixin interviewed a Wuhan doctor who confirmed reports of infections among health care workers, patients being asked to pay upfront despite promises of free care, and underreported deaths in hospitals.
    4. Chinese media leaders have been given a new official line: “Sources of articles must be strictly regulated, independent reporting is strictly prohibited, and the use of non-regulated article sources, particularly self-media [content produced by citizen journalists], is strictly prohibited.”
    5. Official Chinese media are blaming the United States for causing panic over the coronavirus—including false claims that the United States was the first country to restrict visitors from China. (An article at Foreign Policy believes the anti-American coverage could continue if the Chinese Communist Party feels really threaten — possibly repeating Russian conspiracies that the virus is a U.S. bioweapon.)
    6. The Chinese Communist Party has begun punishing local officials in Hubei province, removing several from their posts over their handling of the virus outbreak.
    7. Stock market trading is tightly controlled in China, with the government often directly warning traders not to sell in vulnerable sectors — have warnings/threats been issued on sell offs from the nCoV-effect?
    8. Chinese provinces are in lockdown.

    Who still thinks nCoV is ‘just another flu’?

    1. The young Dr. who first wanted to speak out on the virus, because he saw a similarity to SARS, just died. He had been TOLD to SHUT UP or else. Supposedly he interacted with a glaucoma patient who had 2019-nCoV.

  16. The last Market correction/Great Recession took a 40% haircut off the market. If we ever get to that Bubble situation again, Cash will be king and Inverse ETF’s will make money. The trigger will probably catch us by surprise.

    1. MT,
      Action are screaming louder than any words (or lack of them) at this point.
      There’s no way only about 500 people have died – in a country of nearly 1.5 billion. I’m sure that many die every day there in just routine accidents. That alone would not because to lick down 10’s of millions of people. And the silence here is deafening.

      The more they push the “nothing to see here” stance, the more concerned I get… and angry.

      And the increased censorship only indicates s concerted effort to sustain the idea that this really is no big deal.

  17. At this point F-it!
    The sheep all want to die so be it.
    I will be keeping my head down. We will let our portfolio ride for now. We are still young and have another 25 years to go. That is how we handled the 2008 crash and suckfest from 2009-2014. Our investments recovered overtime. The same will happen again.

    If it really is the end of the world then those pieces of paper that tell us we have money will be worthless anyway. So none if it really matters….

    If you have my attitude then you will have no stress. If you are about to retire, your investments should already be in safe haven portfolios. If not, get on the horn with your adviser today.

    1. White Cracker aside from all those sheep that happen to be OH truck drivers carrying your food and water sanitation chemicals for the towns and cities near you.. the farmers, the dentists, the Line Men that keep your electricity working etc.

      Not all sheep are useless friend. A lot IF they heard the truth might try to become less Sheep Like and protect their families.

      Goodness I know more than a few (gasp, horrors) Democrats that are good neighbors of mine.

      IF enough sheep die off THEN All your Stock Investments will become worthless.

      Just a few thoughts about “love your neighbor as yourself…”

  18. I was sickened just now to learn that Dr. Li Wenliang died. I wrote about him the other day.

    He is/was the ophthalmologist in Wuhan who got into trouble for earning other doctors about what he saw as a pattern much like SARS in hospital patients. He was made to sign a statement about being stubborn and spreading rumors. He received an apology, but he was already infected.

    He tested negative “several” times before finally testing positive.

    Dr. Li Wenliang was just 34 years old.

    Last night someone on a local Fox News affiliate during the evening news that DH decided he wanted to watch (don’t ask me why) said that if you are healthy and are infected with the virus you won’t die. B. S.

    I am taking this doctor’s death particularly hard.

      1. I heard that this afternoon after it was confirmed that he had passed away (after the news was released, then denied).

        Who knows if lives could have been saved had this doctor’s warning been heeded instead of buried.

        I know this young doctor is just one of who-knows-how-many lives have been lost, but I was broken hearted that this particularly brave young doctor and family man passed.

  19. BTW, still no antiviral or “cure”.
    IF your lucky your own immune system will fight it….. so we are lead to believe.
    God help us all, this has the earmarks of being particular bad.
    Ohhhh yeah, one more thing, NO containment.

    1. NRP,
      The only thing “contained” is the Chinese media, the virus… no way.

      And still most of the media here are downplaying this as well. Not a single word about the health of the people in hospital here, or the first planeload who are in quarantine. Just silence. If there had been good news to report I’m sure we would have heard it. The silence is deafening.

      1. So Cal Gal
        Caught a short news story on the radio, one of the children brought in on the first plane load has come down with a fever.
        News person asked “was she separated from the rest of the passengers in flight”?. She was not symptomatic when they arrived, so NO she was not separated.

        Question now, do the start all over on the 2 week confinement or are the days the used deducted from the original two weeks?

        Here is another piece of the pie, heard that since things are NOT so BAD in China. The USA should reopen air travel🛫🛬 back to that country.

        Are you kidding ME?? 😣😫 Our gov/or the $$$ 💸💵brokers are desperate.

        1. AC,
          The WHO is pushing hard to stop the travel and trade restrictions. Really hard. And I am fully expecting virus among those on every flight out.., it would be a miracle if no one was infected IMHO.

          And wasn’t the WHO supposed to be sending a team to China with some of our CDC doctors on the team? I heard it was happening days ago and nothing since.

          The more the news is clamped down, the more suspicious I get. I have no faith or trust in TPTB or the MSM. Zero.

          1. So Cal Gal,

            I can’t figure out the WHO’s agenda. Imposing travel restrictions/quarantines is the only reasonable way to slow the spread of the virus. This is common sense and based on good science. I just can’t wrap my mind around their motivation.

          2. Most likely, the WHO is a politically driven organization and subject to the desires of nCov infected countries, who are not pleased with the travel restrictions. If the Chinese are well represented within the WHO, enough to influence it…such as isolating Taiwan from its conferences…this would be the explanation.

            Most large, international, organizations are political creations, used to instigate, or blunt, world policy.

  20. What is absolutely amazing to me…..
    All the Markets are up
    Gold and Silver are up
    Cripto is up.
    Now I agree that Trump’s acquittal and SOTU speech were very good.
    But really? what the heck is going on?
    Is this not exactly what happened before the Great Depression? NOW add in the virus and a few hundred other things.
    Conspiracy Theory ….. NO, I just don’t get it.
    Guess this old dumb prepper with 600 rolls of TP will just sit back and watch the show.

    1. NRP,
      It defies all logic and reason.
      I can see PM’s being up, but the markets have no reason to be up.

      A number of conglomerates have already warned their supply chains are broken. Hyundai and Kia and Apple are just the start. How many products rely on component parts that come from China? How many companies rely on uninterrupted shipments coming and going throughout Asia? How many companies rely on Asia as customers? Starbucks and movie studios are just the start.

      I suppose all this crazy market exuberance shows what a great job various governments and most of the media have done to downplay risk. Health risk, financial risk, supply of goods risk… on and on.

      Even the occasional warning about multiple percentage points being shaved off GDP doesn’t seem to faze people.

      Hard to see all of this having a good outcome, especially in the near-term. But then again, I can’t believe the world economies and global markets have done as well as they have for as long as they have. It can’t last forever.

      Is it too early for an adult beverage?

      1. So Cal Gal;
        All good points, but you need to remember all the Side Show tuff going on, Impeachment, SOTU, Dems going CRAZYer, even Mitt is a HUGE Razzel Dazzel right now in the News Cycle.
        Plus look at the Surpluses all around the country.
        AND your absolutely the .gov all around the world down playing this.
        Personally I pray to God this virus is nipped in the azz QUICKLY, but don’t honestly believe that.
        The Markets are another distraction I believe, we all know TPTB are pumping billions into the Markets.
        Could you just imagine the consequences if the US went all on panic mood?
        How about is there was a Run on the Stores? or Fuel? or You name it.
        As someone said just look at what happens when a Nor-Easter hits the North East… Store are cleaned out
        Keep on Preparing my friend.

        PS; HELL no it isn’t to early for a Gin on the Rocks with a cpl of Olives :-) even a taste of Wine for old Blue

        1. I had to go to Walmart again today to pick up some prescriptions. Shelves were pretty much stocked. (As stocked as Walmart has been in the past several months.) I keep wondering when the sheeple are going to put two and two together and start panic buying.

    2. NRP, the market plummeted and then people bought bargains. Gold was 1588 an ounce but if you wanted to buy it was over 1600. Now its 1568 so more of a seesaw for PMs. Baltic dry index is waaaayyyy down. No talk of container ships in quarantine but here is more than one. Wonder how that is going to affect the market is ships have to wait 2 weeks to unload.

  21. Here’s one for y’all to think on….
    A Headline;
    “Coronavirus Could Cause China’s Oil Demand To Plunge By 20%”
    Now think on that for a few seconds….. a 20% drop in Oil Demands? Really???? Why would that be happening?
    Can you say ‘Factories and Production’ coming to a halt?

    1. NRP,i follow a chanel JAYOE NATION, central air systems are shut down, only individual house rooms. no heat/air . buildings are cold except for individual places. wife/baby is Chinese,they are doing self quarantine.

  22. NRP,
    Transportation, shipping, air travel all rely on oil. Big factories more rely on coal/nuclear produced electricity. But yeah you are so right. NO DEMAND= drop in prices. maybe good for some, but not oil companies.
    One thing is for certain, there will not be a drop in demand for TP, unless the death toll gets really rolling.

    1. Minerjim
      From the NY Times article I posted earlier on another thread, they reported that quite a few Chinese ran into stores to buy up the TP — evidently there was a ‘rumor’ that the TP was in very short supply. People panicked and bought more TP. Photos of people with purchased 12-packs in front of stores.

      1. Modern Throwback:
        12 pack???
        HAHAHAHA….
        I know it’s not funny. But yeah it is. I’m going to hell for sure.

        1. NRP
          Considering their water supply will only last as long as there are enough people to manage their system, yeah, it is rather funny. Or sad. Either way, these are the people who are clueless, living in exceptionally crowded urban areas, and have very little foods stored for difficult times.

          (Buddists don’t go to hell, except for when they return and have to live in DC…LOL)

  23. My friend was working in Anchorage, AK when the Good Friday earthquake hit. Things were pretty wild in the Safeway store on 4th Avenue. Food and canned goods were flying everywhere. His boss gave him words of wisdom, and that was, “Every disaster is a new opportunity.” Well, armed with this sage advice, he bought a house that slipped off its foundation, with the boiler run through the floor for $4000. He moved it and set up a nice house for his family that he lives in to this day.

    The same principle applies to the US. This is a golden opportunity to wean the US from dependence upon China. They need us more than we need them. There is a lot of damage that has been done to this country by some of our citizens selling out this country to them. The transition will be difficult, but in the long run, we will be a healthier nation. China needs to deal with her despotic government.

    1. Alaska Paul,

      “This is a golden opportunity to wean the US from dependence upon China.”

      I think the whole world will reconsider ordering widgets from China. A few days ago I was very much concerned about the impact of the coronavirus on the stock market given the supply disruptions. I invested almost all of my inheritance in the stock market. So I have a pony in this show.

      Giving the issue much consideration, I start to think this could be a really good long-term opportunity. China has a rising middle class that is demanding higher and higher wages. China is no longer the source of really cheap labor. I am no expert here, but corporations likely look for two things when setting up trade deals: cheap labor and stability. SARS/H5N1/nCOV2019/political unrest undermine perceived stability. If China were the source of cheap labor like it was 10-15 years ago, folks could take more of a risk on stability. But China is not the same source of cheap labor it was 10-15 years ago. My thought is that more and more corporations (both U.S. and global) will source supplies from other countries.

      This will benefit the U.S. economy and the U.S. investor. China has been ripping off U.S. patents and requiring unfair trade agreements. This is what prompted Trump’s trade war. (Sorry, I am thinking out loud. This isn’t so much a reply to your post.)

      I read in the paper today that the U.S. attorney general was thinking about putting China to the same standards China puts U.S. corporations who want to sell in China. (Corporations who want to sell in China have to partner with a Chinese corporation. The Chinese partner gets controlling stake. The U.S. corporation has to release all intellectual property. The Chinese take the intellectual property and run; they set up competing corporations and this undermines the U.S. corporation and the U.S. investor.)

      I do not expect to have to draw from my investments for another 15-20 years. By this time the dip from the coronavirus will be a blip. The silver lining is that the coronavirus could move manufacturing away from communist China to a more favorable location.

      Trump is a smart business man. I think he will be keen to steer manufacturing to locals that will benefit the U.S. Mexico would be ideal. Moving manufacturing jobs from China to the U.S. may solve the immigration problem. Illegals come to the U.S. for jobs. If folks in El Salvador, Guatemala, etc. could get a decent job in Mexico, do you think they would still want to come to the U.S. Building up manufacturing in Mexico would also make Mexico do the will of the U.S. (Trump exploited trade with Mexico to get them to curtail caravans trying to enter the U.S. If you don’t stop the caravans, I’ll close the border and your tomatoes and avocados can rot in tractor trailers.

      I am not sure if any of this makes sense. I tend to write as a means of processing information.

      I am inclined to think that the coming pandemic will not hit the U.S. as hard as it has hit Wuhan. I have been following the science behind the virus. The evidence I have been following suggests that the virus is much more contagious than reported but also less lethal. (Yes, I think China is lying about the figures.) The reason so many folks in Wuhan are dying is that the medical facilities are overrun. If the U.S. can limit the number of cases, the impact will not be as severe. Unlike Wuhan in December and January, we know what we are looking for and can act before localized clusters become epidemics.

      1. Bam Bam Ak Paul,,,
        If nothing else the fact that the supply chain from China is being disrupted will certainly make smarter corporate leaders pay attention better to their supply chains,
        As with everything it takes a long time for changes to come about,

        1. The Brits have weaned themselves from the European Union. It would be great if the US could wean from China, but the world is sooo wound together economically. A bit like a Jenga tower.

    2. Alaska Paul, Bam Bam,

      I tend to agree with what you both have touched on. I believe the coronavirus outbreak, and the resulting actions of the Chinese communist government, are intertwined with several other economic and political realities already facing China. That, and the fact that we cannot trust the news media. We always get spin, sensationalism, and propaganda, seldom hard trustworthy facts. It’s up to us to looked past the hype and search for truth.

      China’s economy has been suffering for awhile now, even before Trumps “trade wars”. China has been having to deal with an increasing dissatisfaction with authoritarian rule. The Chinese people have, more and more, been standing up against the party leaders.

      Then, along comes coronavirus. Not downplaying the catastrophic possibilities, but is it also possible the Chinese leadership saw this as an opportunity to crack down and reassert control over the people? And in doing so, overplayed their hand?

      I don’t know, we will see.

  24. The governments supporting the market, as they are now doing..is you last chance to get out of the known endangered stocks…and convert to something else.

    If a company is shutting down most of its production, or is knowingly going to be adversely effected by the nCov, get out now.

  25. I think we r just seeing the tip of the iceberg with the market. It’s not only that USA and the rest of the world rely on Chinese made products. We also depend on them as the largest consumer of raw goods from across the globe to make these products. Not to mention gas,oil,natural gas,etc.
    China has declared Force Mejure for many of these commodities. Copper shipments to China’s largest importer are being refused. So much of the commodity treaty and contracts are being refused that it is slowing down copper mining in the South American countries that mine it.
    Gas and oil shipments are awaiting offload. China has asked Saudi Arabia to cut back on production because they are not allowing it to be delivered.
    How much raw materials do we send to China daily?
    Gonna get really bad, in my humble opinion.
    PEACE
    MadFab

  26. Just read a article over on ZH where the White House is having scientitist’s look into if the coronavirus was bio engineered.

    Fyi- when ZH came out with these claims a week ago they were permanently banned from Twitter.

    A&O

  27. As with most all things beyond my control I don’t worry about it too much, I see it as not productive.

    I do prep and have done so for 30+ years so I feel I’m stocked up well and mentally flexible enough to adapt to what may be just down the road.

    I could easily spend months on end staying home and living off stored supplies. If a bad virus did come here I could isolate myself easily enough.

    Afraid of this virus? Avoid public places as much. Personally I am not that worried about it, but then it’s not in my city (Toledo Ohio) If it were I would likely be more concerned.

    Prepare, but do not live in fear. I would bet few of us here live in fear. The media likes to portray preppers as afraid insecure fools.

    But I am not afraid, insecure nor a fool. I would say pretty much most here are very stable and upbeat people.

    This virus is no big deal foe most all of us and will never touch us.

    PS: In a Google news-feed on my phone (4-days ago) a Woman in Taiwan was given some aids anti-virus drug and recovered 100% 18-hours later and went home. I have not seen this report in any other news source?

    PPS: Maybe this virus and or it’s cure will start a World wide event, you know just like every Zombie movie and TV show……

    1. Chuck Findlay,
      Don’t be too hasty in thinking Ohio doesn’t have a dog in this race. The husband of the lady here in Chicago that was hospitalized for nCov travelled to Ohio before he came back to Chicago and was hospitalized for nCov soon after. They were hospitalized about 2 weeks and just recently released “supposedly” cured but still under watch at home for now. I don’t know if he was near Toledo but I also don’t know the last 1000 people he came into contact with or who they came into contact with or where they were heading.

  28. As far as how this virus effects global markets or the stock market (didn’t address this in my first post) I don’t play in the stock market and never will. And while what stocks and the markets do can effect me some I have kept it to a minimum.

    I believe in hard assets as a measure of wealth (download the free PDF book “The Alpha Strategy” for a very good understanding of real wealth.)

    And if there ever will be any kind of ecnomic crash I have a massive skill set in that I can fix just about anything and have always been good at bartering. I have been doing it pretty much all my life.

    In fact I did a bit of bartering today, I have a friend that has a radio / electronic repair business (people from all over The States send old tube radios to him to be fixed, he’s very good at it and I am learning a lot from him and it cost me nothing. (Free education) and I was down there today, I fixed 3 radios in trade for some very hard to find repair / electronic gear made in the late 1950’s to 1970’s. I will service this test equipment (update capacitors and resistors inside them) repaint the cases to look like new and use them in my home shop to fix things.

    A hard rule of life is that things (homes businesses, autos and everything else people have and use) will break and ware-out. Someone with repair skills and tools will always be able to trade these repair skills for things.

    So no I don’t worry about the economy.

    I have a LOT of tools (and backup tools) to support my skills.

    Everyone needs to develop skills that can be bartered. One day that retirement (or government) check might just go away.

    1. Chuck,
      We had exactly one store we could buy repair parts for old electronics, when the owner had a stroke they closed it and pretty much threw away everything in the store because nobody was interested in buying it.
      The economy doesnt worry me, but the democrats and their hard left lean does, i just hope it doesnt take too long to fall apart.

      1. Kulafarmer my friends business is a one of a kind place. If I need parts for anything I can find it there. He has 3 floors of parts and radios from the 1940’s on. If I want a parts for a 1950 Crosley or RCA radio, he has it. There are books printed showing pictures of his radios in them. It’s a great place to go exploreing about.

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