Gold & Silver – Precious Metals After The Collapse
The following is an assumption held close by many within the preparedness arena. That is, after “the collapse”, precious metals (gold and silver) will be of value (money) – and be a (the?) means of financial exchange for goods and services. – at least for a time. I would like to broach that subject.
Dennis, here on the blog, brought up the following…
The subject is precious metals…and more specifically, its value as an exchange medium after a collapse. I have no answers, only a bunch of questions.
How and who will determine its value? What a Wall Street broker values it at is of no help to a dog eat dog, day to day survivor half a country away. He has gold (and/or silver), but no food…does his gold or silver have more value than another meal to make it one more day?
Back in the days of the fabled mountain men. Miles from civilization, they had furs. Furs were of great value…back east where there was a functioning commerce. Manufactured goods were scarce. It took some hardy entrepreneurs to arrange for exchange of the manufactured goods for furs. The fur’s potential value was much greater than that of the goods they traded for…but only when transported to where the demand was. Who had the upper hand in determining the exchange rate?
Am I wrong to view precious metals as a means of recovery after a collapsed society returns to a semblance of normalcy…protect wealth through the storm, not so much as currency for transactions when normal commerce comes to an end?
Ision, here on the blog, responded with the following…
Gold only retains value only as long as there is an existing civilization, which values it, and people know they can exchange it for other tangible value. But, if there is no civil contract, no organized grouping of a population around established folkways and laws, precious metals are only worth what one can make from them, and is valued by how sought after that product is by others.
Gold is nice because it doesn’t rust, and is easily worked, and is nice to look at. That’s it… It’s uncommon and hard to find and usually not easy to extract from ore, or placer, deposits. It makes nice jewelry, or used to decorate one’s favorite weapons, but it could also make nice fishing weights.
Gold, and all precious metals and gems, must be traded to another person, who is in the possession of actual wealth, which are the commodities, which sustain and nurture human life..such as shelter, food, water, fertile land, weapons, tools, clothes…and the like. The person who determines the value of your precious metals and gems…is the person who owns the goods you wish to obtain in exchange for it.
In addition, in the absence of any effective, ubiquitous, governing entity, what one’s gold, and precious metals, and gems, are worth to one person, may not be worth anything to another, or even be recognized as valuable at all, beyond their decorative value, or their industrial worth.
In lawless times, where there is no civilization, if someone really wants your precious metals, they may just kill you for them, and for whatever else you might have….and wouldn’t it be better to retain your wealth in a form, where it could actually be used to protect…itself? Bang. Bang.
In my opinion, this all largely depends on “the collapse”, and what that entails. It appears to me that the global masters of the world know that the existing financial system is at its end. All nations around the globe are in severe debt, and issuing much more debt 24/7. There are defaults coming. And that’s the likely reason that WWIII is under way. It’s designed to be the excuse for default and collapse. There is a new system waiting in the wings after most everyone is wiped out. It will be all new, and all digital. It will be part of their Great Reset.
With that said, if this implementation is successful (after the orchestrated collapse via WWIII, assuming we’re not all dead via Thermonuclear War), it is my opinion that gold and silver will be banned (for the common person) from financial exchange within the new system. In this scenario, gold and silver could become functional within an underground barter system – at risk of severe penalty.
Now if the powers-that-be fail at bringing in their new digital system after the collapse of the old system, then we will surely be in SHTF mode. And Ision’s remarks (above) sound pretty valid…
Like many people say, “You can’t eat gold or silver”. It comes down to survival priorities first. The tangibles that aid towards survivability. But logically, eventually, there will be a need for a format of ‘store of value’ for the purpose of buying and selling goods and services. Barter in and of itself won’t work very well. There needs to be something that’s valued as ‘money’.
Anyway, an interesting topic of discussion. Lets hear your thoughts.
I have long felt that useful products and food etc would be the currency of a post collapse world for the vast majority of the surviving population. Gold and silver will only be valuable to those who value it but for most bartering food and useful goods or services will be the base.
It will be interesting, for many a brutal awakening.
We know not what the future holds.
I am curious why you believe that bartering food and services will be the base. I have lived in a poor rural village in a backwater third world country and despite there being a sizable amount of bartering, the majority of exchanges involved various currencies and PMs. I had a discussion with a coworker who shares your view of things. He loves the quote of “you can’t eat gold or silver.” There is a historical reason that gold and silver became trade currency. It allows for the bartering of skills and products across time and distances. They act as an intermediate store of value. Bartering is a very inefficient and unreliable means of commerce. The example that I gave to him was that he had a useful skill as a small engine mechanic. I have a useful skill in gun repair. If he needs his AR fixed but I don’t need an engine repaired, what does he do? He said he would trade me eggs from his chickens. I have chickens too. No thanks. He said that I could trade the eggs to someone else for something that I needed. So, eggs have now become the currency? I told him that I didn’t want a currency that was fragile and had a possibility of spoilage. The historical solution to this problem has been gold and silver. In many of the SHTF books, like One Second After, the currency often becomes ammo. I’m not a big fan of this even though I am prepared for it. I would rather be prepared to use silver to overcome the problem of not having a currently desirable trade at the local farmers market/bazaar/swap meet or even with my neighbor.
Arty –
Remind your coworker that he can’t eat his cash or bank statement either. Honestly, the milquetoast crap that comes out of the average citizen sheep is amazing. BTW, I will fix your generator, or your car for PM’s, any day! I can be there with parts and tools tonight.
TMAC –
I have. He is one of those guys who agrees that there are a lot of problems heading our way but thinks he can just grab his hunting rifle and go kill a deer or get by bartering his mechanic skills. I point out that there are a couple hundred thousand other people in our area with the same plan. He doesn’t want to hear it because actual prepping is too hard and diverts money from his hobbies. Your comment about parts is critical to being able to fix something. He thinks the part fairy will just put whatever he needs under his pillow.
I believe that a small amount of silver dimes (maybe 50) is a good thing to have in your bag. They may buy you a can of soup or rice etc. You don’t want to have to use your ammo or a $20.00 gold piece to barter for food! Pre 1964 Dimes are currently valued at about $2.00 each, I like pre 1964 U.S. coins because they are easily recognized.
If gold and silver are not needed for manufacturing they do not even have an intrinsic value. Gold and silver only have value as a rate of exchange if 2 or more people agree on that value. Historically, many nations have used gold and silver as an exchange rate, probably because it is more difficult to obtain than clam shells and beads.
What else would you use to transfer goods miles down the road because Bill wants what Joe has and Joe wants what Herb has and Herb wants what Bill has? They have to all get together to make it work or use something as an exchange to make it happen.
Gold and silver are fairly durable and will last a long time. Of course, that may take a while after an initial disturbance settles down.
I’m accumulating a little silver not because the future of silver seems so bright, but because the future of the dollar seems so bleak. And I’m too poor for gold.
The dollar is worth less every day. They lie about the inflation rate. Serious efforts are underway and advancing to remove the dollar’s reserve currency status, and it just seems to me the powers that be are purposefully destroying it so they can usher in CBDC slavery upon us. Not to mention potential bail-ins or whatever. Maybe I am wrong but that’s how it seems.
Meanwhile the central banks are buying record amounts of what not long ago they were referring to as barbarous relics. Why is that? About half the world, the half that produces and manufactures things, are moving to a currency backed by valuable resources.
Also, when powerful individuals tell you they have plans for you, if history is any guide, believe them. The WEF says we’ll have nothing and be happy. Well I think non-bug food, luxuries and necessities will still be available because the tyrants trying to foist a new system on us have no intention of giving up anything. So we’ll have nothing because we won’t have the money for things or the money will be programmed so we can’t buy what they don’t want etc. Perhaps precious metals will be useful for bartering. Perhaps not. But I have no faith in the prospects of the dollar, so what I have in excess now I’m converting to silver. It just seems the safer bet. And if I am just a crazy prepper and wrong about everything I can pretty easily convert it back to cash if nothing happens. It’s just the new way for me to save now.
Assuming that the “bail-ins” of the European Central Bank is an indicator of a financial collapse then yes, gold and silver will have its’ days. A financial collapse is imminent – that much is clear. Will it lead to SHTF? Maybe. But that would mean such things as ammo, medicine, salt would also be very valuable and coveted. I got some silver but I got a whole lotta ammo and a buncha medicine. Gold and silver may be more prevalent that we think in a financial crisis. Many have bought into the commodities market. But in a full-blown SHTF no food on the shelves scenario, it’ll likely be worth less than a box of ammo.
Arch – A useful currency must be portable and exchangeable. Right now there is an epidemic of crime where drug addicts will bust out your car window to collect one empty plastic water bottle for the 5 cent redemption value to help fund their fix for the day. They open the cap, smash it flat and stuff it under the tarped stolen shopping cart. There’s your portable currency at this stage of collapse, the new plastic nickel. (brought to you by libtard environutz, btw) It’s way too clumsy to try and get a farmer who needs pipes replaced, connected with a plumber who is starving. There must be a portable medium of exchange.
SoulSurvival: BRAVO!! A standing ovation to you for an excellent dissertation.
Boy, this is fun! Almost as many opinions as what the best gun or caliber after shtf might be. I guess I started this thread, I’ll add a coupla more variables to the mix.
I believe history established early on that gold was the currency of kings. Great wealth could be transported rather easily. Debts between counties (kingdoms) were settled in gold transfers. Even current governments keep stockpiles of gold as a marker of their wealth.
I’m old enough to remember when U.S. citizens could not own gold (other than alloy jewelry and recognized collector coins). Nope, the government decided on it could own gold…forcing the people to sell there gold to it for somewhere around $20 an ounce if I remember my history correctly, then placed a value of around $35 an ounce for transactions with other governments. Pretty sure that was still the official value in 1974 when the original law banning private holdings was rescinded.
OK, If, after shtf, some form of central government still exists (and I bet there will be, with an enforcement wing that ain’t people friendly)…and it decides only it can own gold…would this not force all transactions underground. Make any transaction risk being ratted out? Make those who demand gold in payment similar to today’s drug lords, willing to take the risk going against the government? And…after all is said and done, wouldn’t they have to find an outside buyer to give them something in commensurate with their risk?
Not being contrarian…just posing what I believe to be legitimate concerns.
Let’s throw another question into the conversation (I bet there will be a lot more than I can think of should we enter into an underground/not government sanctioned gold exchange economy).
OK, what gold do you own? In what ounce/fraction of an ounce…at what purity? How will you verify at the point of the transaction? Who will have the chemicals necessary to ascertain purity? Scales to verify weight? How do you break it down to purchase an item of lesser value?
Historically, the bit system became fairly common in some locales with the silver dollar. Remember the old cheerleader chant “two bits, four bits, six bits, a dollar”? That came from the practice of taking a chisel and dividing it into 16 more or less equal pie shaped pieces equaling 12 1/2 cents each that merchants would accept as cash and would return as change for a purchase. But, that was dealing with an easily identified coin.
Who you gonna trust when dealing with metals of such great “intrinsic” value?
…correction “16” should be “8” pieces/bits
Dennis
Understand the term ‘pieces of 8’.
I can tell you what I do now and have as a plan for using PMs in trade. I have scales, both digital and old school balance with weights, as well as a micrometer. I own a copy of the “Red Book” of coins which lists all the info about them. I also have magnets. It is very hard to counterfeit a PM coin that is the same diameter and thickness, weight and uses non-magnetic alloys as the real thing. Purity is unlikely to matter at the individual level. I don’t think many people are going to be that discriminating between a gold eagle at 91.67% and a gold buffalo or between a silver eagle and pre 1964 silver coins at 90%. The historic clipping of coins shouldn’t be too needed because there are now fractional coins. I personally like 1 oz and 1/4 oz gold coins and 1 oz silver and constitutional silver coins. That mix gives me a range of values if I need to use them. I also intend to act much like the coin shops do today. A government minted coin like a US eagle, Canadian maple leaf, Britannia, Kangaroo, etc. is going to be trusted because I know the measurements for those coins. A privately minted silver round from someplace like the Sunshine or Scottsdale mints is going to be worth significantly less in trade, if I even accept them. In the end, people caught passing phony coins will be treated the way they were historically.
Arty
Apparently do not know that the Sunshine mining company is no longer in business. As the NIL told that to me at Christmas time when he received one as a present. Thought you & others may like to know this bit of history. jic
Good to know. I still see them advertised at some of the dealers that I use. Must be old inventory.
Arty
It is the last of their coins that they printed from this mining company. Thought you and anyone else may like to know fact.
Dennis, Ha! Great minds. Within a few minutes we each posted similar missives. Unfortunately, the lack of trust applies equally to those offering pew pews as currency. Ball, slug, grains – unless one is watching the reloading process or knows enough technical data (I certainly never will) there’s no way to verify actual value and utility.
Anony Mee,
Yep. I read an article awhile back about Russian troops during their war in Afghanistan (you know, the one when the U.S. was allied with the Taliban there…who became our arch enemies after the Russians left). The article was telling how Russian troops would purposely boil small arms ammunition in pots to render into duds to leave behind for Taliban fighters to scavenge for their own use. Also said they had lots of purposely over-loaded small arms ammo they left scattered around as they went out on patrols in enemy territory, knowing it would be scavenged, with the intent of destroying the unsuspecting user’s weapon.
Dennis –
It is an interesting discussion. I think the possibility of an economic collapse in this country is very real. There are historical examples like the Weimar Republic or the Great Depression. Current examples include Venezuela, Lebanon and Turkey. In those countries there have been attempts to limit the citizens use of foreign currencies and precious metals. It has been a complete failure. The citizens of those countries widely use foreign currency and PMs without significant enforcement being possible by the government.
Modern Americans tend to be more non-compliant than most other nationalities. In the 30’s citizens turned in their gold because they felt it was their patriotic duty to do so. I don’t think that mindset is as common today.
FDR’s Executive Order 6102 had very few enforcement actions taken. Those that were done primarily had to do with people or corporations trying to get their gold out of banks or with companies doing open business in gold. FDR confiscated the gold in order to inflate the money supply by changing its’ value as you said. There is an economic theory that inflating the money supply is the solution to an economic downturn. That is no longer an issue because we have all seen the Fed just push a button and create trillions of dollars. They can also switch to a new fiat currency like the CBDC without going to the effort of trying to confiscate gold. Unlike the 30’s where money was minted in gold, I don’t think that there is enough privately held gold by average Americans to make it worth the effort and cost to try to gather it up and the billionaires and banks have enough politicians and judges in their pockets to keep it from happening to them.
If you really think that there is a possibility that they will go after gold, then get silver. Its lower value makes it really heavy in any amount significant to the government. It wouldn’t be worth their effort to try to confiscate it.
@Dennis – interesting story re compliance with “regulations”: the 3/13/1933 issue of Barron’s purporredly reported that a French ship loaded with $3M in gold left NY for Europe, in violation of Roosevelt’s confiscation order. The story goes that the gold was owned by numerous NY banks and wealthy families and was sent for holding in London banks. I have not read this issue myself but heard of it as a kid and also heard from wealthy east coast families while growing up that they had done this (we were NOT wealthy, my farmer turned engineer dad chose a town with excellent public school for us to live). I have another story about a chest of gold coins we kids found in an old NE barn … a story for another time.
@ IMOW – some additional info to what you posted: In 1974 Gerald Ford repealed Roosevelt’s Order 6102 by his executive order 11825 and at the same time congress re-authorized gold ownership by US citizens. In 1977 Congress revoked presidential authority to regulate gold except in case national emergency of war.
imow – ” Brandon may have a brain fart tonight and PM’s turn into dust or a devalued asset themselves tomorrow .”
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This is simply not possible. The US hardly has any reserves, they are impotent in the PM markets. Lay out a plausible scenario for discussion if you’d like.
You never know when black swan comes
Musings on a cold, windy morning where all critters are hunkered down. If we somehow are knocked back to a pre-industrial way of life, we will be there for at least a generation, depending on loss of manpower, knowledge, expertise, and the availability of outside help. We will form communities. All civilizations have had coinage of one sort of another as a medium of exchange with strangers. The thing about using PMs as a form of currency is trust, or the lack of it. I would trust minted coinage long before I’d take anyone’s word about a chunk of gray or yellow metal. Folks talk about “tests”; where are the reagents coming from? Any other test I wouldn’t trust. Thus giving rise to disinterested third parties acting as banks or assay offices. Minted gold and silver coins will have premier value. Junk silver will be used as change for bigger pieces. And I believe that our coinage currently in circulation will be valuable as “change” for the junk silver. Stamped jewelry and sterling flatware will also carry value, I think.
SoulSurvival:
I agree with Tmac. Well said.
One note with a question:
“I’m an American, and I know the lessons of history.”
Why do you or does anyone think there is such a push to erase “history”?
When you erase a county’s history, you erase that country. That is why.
Interesting conversation on PMs.
Not much mention on the other valuable PMs. Dennis and a few others know what I’m saying.
NRP & Blue,
Like I said in my original comment, I’m asking these questions as someone not invested in precious metals, nor likely to become invested in them… not because I don’t see them as a worthy prep, but because most of my liquid assets have already been invested in a debt free homestead, vehicles, equipment, and supplies (including those metals you allude to).
I may become convinced after a collapse that I should have invested heavily in gold or silver instead…I don’t have the luxury of being able to do both. Truth is, I’m one of those who is dependent on an income I earned but is doled out monthly…that I can’t draw back. The questions I ask are legitimate concerns everyone should consider and find answers to in my opinion.
…and yes, I have that other metal currency, even in denominations I have no way of using other than for trade value.
Dennis –
I prep for “normal” as well as SHTF. I have an investment portfolio as well as an emergency fund. I read an article that recommended having 10% of your portfolio in PMs. It made a convincing case. I scaled back my investment into my 401k and used the money instead to purchase PMs and rebalance my investments. From what you alluded to; this may not be an option for you. I also had an emergency fund in a bank account with several months expenses. I realized after I started prepping a few years ago that it wasn’t that helpful to have the fund in the bank getting .01% interest and that having cash at home would be more useful in the event of SHTF or even a local natural disaster. I later decided that converting a majority of the emergency fund from cash to PMs was a good hedge against inflation and would also be more valuable in SHTF. It is easy to sell back a coin for cash if I ever need to for my emergency fund. I know most Americans don’t have an emergency fund but I hope that most preppers do. Converting part of an emergency fund might be an option for you to get PMs and cover both a “normal” emergency as well as a SHTF.
Dennis:
Our mindset is alike.
Do I have “some” PMs? Sure, but I’m scolled in the thinking I can’t eat a bar of silver, could I “but food” with that silver? Sure IF there is food to be purchased. Same for most post Shit Hit The Fan items the millions will all be needing.
Honestly, I’d rather invest in the 3-Bs than PMs, but that’s just my 2 cents worth.
Thanks for reminding me im not crazy and not alone in the BBB
Dennis, NRP, Kula, good morning.
Do you guys see the rhythmic undulations in spot price every day and every week? It plots a reasonably stable track. I watch it every day. Silver is especially being milked, Chase is likely behind it, few others can move markets each day. Check it out. Down 1% each day for 3 days in a row, shake out the weak hands and leveraged fools. Chase, et al., swoops in and buys a metric assload of the pfizz, the next day spot jumps 5%, then Chase dumps half a load back on the market, and the bottom falls out again.
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Annualize the churn and these muhfuggas are probably clearing 200% per year, while adding another 10% to their physical stockpile, thus removing it from public circulation, which only adds to the future volatility, which they will be there to amplify, steer and exploit.
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One day they are going to hit a wall and there won’t be any more to buy. Then true, unadulterated price discovery happens.
One day they will be hit by a brick and all their brick and mortars will be smoking heaps and anyone who is in them too, i put bankers in the same list as lawyers and politicians
Tmac,
Good morning to you and all my friends here at MSB. Just so everyone knows, I’m neither attacking nor advocating precious metals as a prep…just voicing some concerns I developed as I watched all the commercialism I’ve observed over the past few years.
We’ve all seen the TV commercials (they are right up there with extended car warranties and lawyer lawsuit settlement claims) declaring that gold, according to the “experts” is expected to increase in value (pick the number) 1000…5000…10,000 % by the year (fill in the blank)…and some say as early as the end of this year!
I come from a family of “horse traders”. If I have something that I’m convinced is going to double, triple, maybe even quadruple in value “by the end of the year”…I would be a fool to buy ad space to sell it 1-2% over current value today.
I have no problem with the fact that gold/silver is a hedge against inflation or even as a valuable asset for trade/barter in a collapse. I do have doubts about fluidity as an alternate currency, especially in a localized, isolated economy I expect after a collapse.
If nothing else has been accomplished in this thread…hopefully folks are working the questions raised through their own minds. Truth is…none of us know for sure what awaits us…we can only pray we are hitting all the bases in preparation.
Most every American knows what a silver dime, quarter, half dollar and silver dollar is. Pre 64 of course.
There are easily recognized coins that have value.
They are not expensive to buy (except maybe silver dollars), and it is wise to own some.
Terry Brewer – I have bad news about that. Go check out some Mark Dice videos from a couple of years back when he stood on a sidewalk and tried to give away bullion to passers by. He was reviled, scoffed at and treated as a freak, women backed way from him with great trepidation. In one video he stood outside a coin dealer shop and invited anyone to take his one ounce gold coin inside to prove it is real. He begged people to take it. He literally could not give it away. ‘Murka! Fark yeah!
[ Edit, inserted YouTube links ]
https://youtu.be/LN55tfvAUWI
https://youtu.be/D_x8VswuLwU
Tmac — That is so right! You try to tell somebody, “I’ll take that 9 mm (which Trudeau says I can’t have) for this gold. Go ahead, it’s real gold. Take it!” How are people going to know whether it’s 10k, 14k, or even if it’s real gold? There are fake gold bars being sold out there. It looks real. The packaging looks real. You need a testing device to tell. I don’t have gold in my preps. I think you’d be better off trading stuff that everyone needs — food, seeds, clothing, tools, firewood, batteries, etc.
wooly bugger –
I’ll go out on a limb and say that gold has such a unique feel and resonance that after many decades of playing with it, I’m pretty sure I can tell a fake. In case I am wrong, you can download a ping tester for your mobile phone and use it to check ping signature, you can’t really fake that. A level deeper and you’re using a Sigma Metalytics machine; it’s expensive but a bargain anyway if it catches even one fake. Assay cards are helpful too. Get on the stick man. Those Maples are all flowing south. Canada would never rip me off, it’s un-Canadian.
While we do have some silver put away, the only gold we have is in jewelry. The BIG deposit of PMs is lead and copper….lol That not only seems more useful, but can be restored to its original worth with a little effort. I WILL NOT use for barter though, as it can oddly find its way back home in the wrong hands.
@PW – my fathers mother talked about how in the depression, heirloom sterling silver silverware was used as currency – not sure how much a fork or spoon was worth on the barter marker but their weight can be easily measured and they have a useful function as utensils and are not only beautiful but antimicrobial during use.
SS,
Amen! Some I hear refer to gold and silver as “God’s money”. Perhaps because it isn’t manmade, but is from the Creator.
I need xyz widget. Know a guy with the widget. How do we make his widget become my widget? I truly believe ammo will be a “kind” of money. All that’s left to decide is how many of what caliber. Most everyone who survives for very long, will have need of ammo. Reloaders will pay close attention to exchange rates. Heck, just having primers might be the way to go. Though I’d be wary of being shot with what used to be my ammo, it’s a potential solution.
20 rounds of .45 = 100 credits/dollars/whatever
20 rounds of .40 = 92 ” / ” / ”
20 rounds of 30.06 = 260
20 rounds of .22 = 20
Something like that. Rates would be fluid and values would fluctuate. It’s a likely solution, though hazardous. Those left surviving will be used to hazardous and familiar with ammo. How many .22 for a pair of baofengs???? Don’t have any .22 but I’ve got some .308 How about some 12 gauge?
It’s a tangible thing and most folks will be familiar with it. The population will go waaay down. Many just won’t make it. Much like grandma’s diamond ring, grandpa’s ammo will have value.
I fully agree that for a few months or even a couple of years ammo will probably be the primary currency. But any currency that is consistently destroyed (shot up) by its owners will have massive inflation. How much do you think that box of .22 will be worth 2 years, 5 years, 10 years into a total collapse and how willing will someone be to trade it? In the short term I am prepared to trade ammo and other items exactly as you said. In the longer term I think historical methods of trade will prove true again.
Arty. Re
“In the short term I am prepared to trade ammo and other items exactly as you said. In the longer term I think historical methods of trade will prove true again.”
Agree. I also think that IF things revert back to some semblance of normal, a monetary system would return. But “laws” would be severely enforced and items such as ammo would be black market only.
IMOW,
A fed cat never leaves. Once addicts (alcohol, tobacco, drugs) find a source for their addiction they will do whatever it takes to feed it. Last thing I want is some unpredictable drunk with a severe addiction dependent on me to feed their cravings.
Same goes for ammo. Never barter anything that can be used against you.
Several have mentioned about PMs being declared illegal or the government taking them. When the SHTF the last thing I will be worried about is what the government is declaring illegal including PMs, guns, food etc. Any LEO, military, feds that come trick or treating will be treated and dealt with in the same manner as any other criminal threat trying to take my property and I doubt there will be many willing to take a chance on dying in a stack trying to get a few ounces of gold or a couple of SBRs.
When word gets out that local LEOs raided or assisted feds in raiding someone’s house for guns, PMs or food they will have put a bullseye on their home and family and they had better never leave their home again. Also in a WROL situation there will be a lot of criminals looking to get pay back from those that sent them to prison (LEOs, DAs, Judges) especially in small communities where people know more about other’s business than they can ever imagine. So plan on acquiring what you will need to defend and take of your family regardless of what the government declares as it will no longer matter.
Just so you know……
Karats Parts of Gold Purity [%]
24K 24/24 99.9
22K 22/24 91.7
18K 18/24 75
14K 14/24 58.3
12K 12/24 50
10K 10/24 41.7
9K 9/24 37.5
I would hazard a guess that 98% of the population’s eyes would glaze over if you tried to explain this simple purity chart to them….much less try to explain why their Authentic Franklin Mint Gold (*clad*) Eagle Collectors Edition is all but worthless.
Dennis –
That is complicated, and antiquated, scary maffs. .9999 is easy enough to remember and bone-simple to test. I am not a jewelry guy. Jeans and T-shirt unless I’m going to court or appearing a commercial.
Dennis
Are you kidding me they still sell that junk?
Thought people wised up to the cover coating on coins, gheez a sucker born every second of every day.
Thank you for the reminder. Many years ago, ACDH was going to purchase said fake coins (my terminology) because his hearing was not the best. Asked him if he had lost his mind somewhere along the road to wisdom.
Said they were reasonable and wanted to buy them for the grandkids. Okay,,,(not okay) I politely reminded him about a fool and his money being parted. 🤔
The last time I checked a $100.00 face value bag of pre-64 quarters was around $2,000.00.I think that any emerging
economy if you can call it that will be heavily black market and barter.
Gold is wealth preservation.Silver is day to day survival.
RC re:
“Several have mentioned about PMs being declared illegal or the government taking them.”
Until recently this was in fact a concern of mine. The reality is that IF the government (or any other organized entity i.e. a cartel wanted your stuff they would just come in and take it. Rambo or not you’d get whacked by some spec op force and that would be that. The good news is that the odds of it happening are slim to none unless you are stupid enough to put up a “ghost guns” for sale sign on your fence. That’s why having a community you can trust is so important in these dangerous times. You may lose your initial property but you and your family will be alive and out of sight.
Arch Stanton,
I agree the chances are slim to nil unless you are drawing attention to yourself. I do believe that if overnight we are labeled criminals by our government then they had better be prepared for us to act like one. At that point nothing is off the table.
IMO, in the forthcoming beast system, composed of an all digital commerce and economy, digital central bank currency, block chain for track and trace and ESG enforcing compliance, precious metals won’t be accepted by any stakeholder of and in the beast system. Any non-compliant commercial entity who violates will be voided and punished.
So how can accumulated precious metals worth provide day to day survival during seven year tribulation? Do you really believe the new system will permit the common man wealth, riches and priveledged comforts? Do you really believe the wicked and corrupt will even allow legal ownership of precious metals and that an ounce in the hands of a commoner serf is worth thousands? Remember 1933 when private gold ownership was outlawed, when our nation still worshipped God?
And you think the Satanic beast system will allow an end around/razzle dazzle/trickery when snitches are rewarded for turning in betrayals?
The Bible tells us precious metals will be worthless and cast into the streets.
Ezekiel 7:19
biblehub.com/ezekiel/7-19.htm
“’They will throw their silver into the streets, and their gold will be treated as a thing unclean. Their silver and gold will not be able to deliver them in the day of the LORD’s wrath. It will not satisfy their hunger or fill their stomachs, for it has caused them to stumble into sin.
JMO…our preps won’t save us in the day of the Lord’s wrath. Only our faith and trust in Jesus Christ and the day of redemption. I prepped physically for ten years, lacking one prep and that box was checked around 2015. More valuable than food and ammo, gennies, primitive survival skills, and just four silver rounds is having Jesus Christ reign in my heart. I am saved from the day of the Lord’s wrath and blessed with improved quality of life here today and eternal life in a most beautiful and loving world tomorrow. Read the book “Imagine Heaven”. The personal accounts of indescribable heaven as seen through the eyes of many who encountered near-death experiences. It’s a good read.
Tmac,
I ran across this site. It has some pretty impressive graphics concerning gold. Some of the info gleaned by my uneducated eyes seem to bring into question what I’ve heard concerning the U.S. gold reserves visa vi other countries…specifically China (view the chart World Government Gold Reserves).
The site (I can’t vouch for or against their believability) …..demonocracy dot info slash infographics slash world slash gold slash gold dot html
I would appreciate your opinion.
I apologize for so many posts this morning…strong, cold wind outside this morning…making me a little reluctant to get in a hurry to get outside the warm house.
Inflation is on everybody’s minds these days. I recall my history studies as a child in Texas. Thinking back, I remember the textbooks describing how, towards the end of the Civil War, that the Confederate dollar had become so worthless that buying a piece of flat cake from a baker, the Confederate bill would be laid on top of the sheet cake and an outline cut around it to measure the amount of cake it would buy.
Then I thought about a project I was working on a few months back. I needed several small fender washers to finish up. I was having trouble finding my stash, then realized that a penny coin was about the size I needed…so I chuck up the drill and drilled the size hole I needed in them…in a minute or so I had the 6 washers I needed…a total of six cents expended. A small 8 pack of that size washer at Wally World would cost a dollar.
Silver price 2014 (last time I sold an 100 OZ bar) $19.07 per OZ
Silver price today, $20.92 per OZ.
An actual price increase of $1.85 in 9ish years.
Just saying that’s all.
Tmac:
Same is happening with CU, and quite a few other metals.
If one really watches Wallstreet you’ll see exactly what’s going on.
Unfortunately I don’t have the $Ms to play the game, so I’ll keep on doing as best as this Ole Fart can do with my BBBs and what little time we all may have left.
It is fun/interesting to sit back and watch History repeat itself though.
Imagine a year right before the Great Depression, “hey Steve, ya think we auta get some more hay in them there barns?”.
Seriously, would it not have been nice to buy 2000 gallons of Diesel a couple of years back? Ohhhh that’s right, I did, and now burning $1.87 per gallon fuel in my old klunker 😁
So each to their own thinking. Right?
LIVE – from his own world: “fap, fap, fap, come on, fap,… darn it”
Tmac, Showing my age here but do I detect a whiff of Hunt brothers in all this?
From what I have seen, I think I will continue to purchase primers, brass and powder.
Calirefugee:
10-4 Rubber Ducky.
Hence the PMs of Brass n Lead
Maybe a few OZs of Hodgdon VARGET.
At $54.99 from $25ish 2 years ago…
Now THERE is an investment for ya.
Varget, one of my favorite loads for 7.62/51
RVN 69:
Exactly…..
Works well in 5.56 also
Yep, use that and BLC-2 also
All good points made pro and con. One thing to remember is aluminum use to be priced higher than gold it was so rare in its pure form. The Washington monument is topped by a pyramid of aluminum because it was so precious. Now aluminum is common and used throughout our western society. Electric power is needed for commercial production, you know produced by evil fossil fuels.
Right now nails, screws, etc are more likely to have a value in trade than PMs in a collapse scenario.
(UPDATE) More US States Act to RECLAIM Silver & Gold as MONEY 🚨🚨 (precious metals as legal tender)
A YouTube video by Ron’s Basement.
The list of u.s. states acting to restore silver and gold as legal tender continues to grow, the most recent state to put forward legislation is Kansas, but there are Rumours of more in the works, we sit down with Pat Holland from the Missouri Freedom initiative to get a critical update on this growing movement which is sweeping the United States of America.
Well, Mrs. Alaskan likes to gold pan. We just take a couple days in the summer to go panning. Get to relax and fight the mosquitoes. Maybe find enough to pay for the gas. If I ever get the school bus conversion finished, we can go in style.
One of the lessons I learned from my father before he passed was to invest in something that you know about. As an engineer, he invested in metals as a commodity and did well for a few years after retirement from his day job. My brother is a software engineer and he gives/shares input regarding his area of expertise. My own area of interest has been in biomedical/pharmaceuticals. Our stock portfolios reflect that to this day. With my early prior career in law enforcement/security, I am nervous about bringing into my home a precious commodity that is portable and easily concealed without having a secure location in which to store it.
Home invasions that start with a stolen truck being driven into the front of a residence or business is not new. This was happening in Detroit, MI long ago when I was a teen. The taking of goods in the aftermath being referred to as “afro-packing” was learned from a former resident of Detroit, MI. (Afro-packing: Throwing goods and valuables in garbage bags into the back of a truck or moving van in rapid fashion in attempt to evade the po-po that may/may not be responding. Response times will vary dependent upon which city you may be residing in)
I think antibiotics will be more valuable then gold, wish i could buy some with a very long term shelf life.
woody these will be unavailable in june..from animal/pet supply places. get while you can, what Dr usually give you- or are needed. avoid tetracycline.it does not keep as long as others. consider herbal/holistic/natural antibacterial solutions, essential oils.get comfortable using them now..things effective on respiratory tract are effective on urinary systems..in pharma and natural pharma. what in have found.. experience is one teacher.
woody, purchase what you can. put them in mylar with oxygen absorbers, label carefully and fully. a freezer, cool dark place., hidey hole, just make sure someone else who you trust knows where they are too.
Woody,
A few years back the US Defense Dept. did something very strange for them.They figured out that they were spending
billions on antibiotics for the military yearly only to dispose of them in a few years.
They hired two private laboratories to analyze the strength and effectiveness of each antibiotic in their inventory that
had exceeded the manufacturers discard date.
The results from each laboratory were almost identical.Each antibiotic tested safe and effective for years beyond the
stated expiration date.
In general it’s about like the date on a can green beans.Good for many years.The Defense Dept. study is posted
on line and lists the real effective dates for a large number of antibiotics.
Doing my own due diligence I checked with three family members who are medical doctors and they agreed as did
a nephew who is a pharmacist although he was greatly embarrassed to say so.
The ingredients in the FishMox are the same as antibiotics labeled for humans.
Good luck.I hope that you find what you need.
Thanks Guys. Helps alot’. Woody
Tmac
Most would rather have the shiny stuff than fiat paper, they are not stupid
When I read where someone says “You can’t eat it” referring to PMs I think to myself, he doesn’t have any! OTOH, someone who puts all their efforts into acquiring PMs and not much else is delusional. Resources we may acquire for the eventual hard times must be prioritized in their acquisition. No sense going over them. We all know what they are. I’m not buying NODs when I don’t have any beans in the pantry!
I read once that spec ops soldiers often carry a one oz. gold eagle on their person or in their kit when in combat. Once, a soldier was separated from his patrol in the dessert of Iraq after a firefight. Lost, he wanders off to suffer from intense dehydration and thought he would perish. He stumbled into a small village. He traded his gold coin to they village elder for desperately needed water and a bit of food and was able to send word out for his rescue. In that case that one oz of gold was worth only water to drink and some stew. Was it a good trade? That soldier thinks so.
If my budget gives me a one or the other choice food will win every time, there is a very real possibility that there will be no food available at any price.
There are many folks who simply dont have the $ to buy PMs, it is a very real decision between buying food or paying bills like utilities or rent,