CDC New Best Estimate Covid Fatality Rate 0.4%

That rate is much lower than the numbers used in the horrifying projections that shaped the government response to the epidemic. Though roughly four times the estimated CFR for seasonal flu.

According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), the current “best estimate” for the fatality rate among Americans with COVID-19 symptoms is 0.4 percent.

The CDC also estimates that 35 percent of people infected by the COVID-19 virus never develop symptoms. Those numbers imply that the virus kills less than 0.3 percent of people infected by it—far lower than the infection fatality rates (IFRs) assumed by the alarming projections that drove the initial government response to the epidemic, including broad business closure and stay-at-home orders.

The CDC estimates that the CFR for COVID-19 falls to 0.05 percent among people younger than 50 and rises to 1.3 percent among people 65 and older. For people in the middle (ages 50–64), the estimated CFR is 0.2 percent.

CDC projections made in March predicted that as many as 1.7 million Americans could die from COVID-19 without intervention. Such projections had a profound impact on policy makers in the United States and around the world.

The apparent Covid-19 survival rate:

99.95% (age 50 and younger)

99.8% (ages 50-64)

98.7% (age 65 and older)



  1. So when the next pandemic comes, and it will, what are we to believe?

    1. Yeah. Because the numbers reported by various countries vary from a fatality rate of around 4% to 10%. So does that mean all the countries that reported infections are lying big time?

      Something doesn’t add up.

      1. Those numbers are based on *known* infections. Many people that are infected aren’t tested, especially those with minor or no symptoms. The numbers “add up” perfectly when you take that in consideration.

        1. So what you’re saying is, if you want to make a virus appear much less deadly, you should multiply the number who’ve tested positive by 10x, 20x, or 50x until the numbers “add up perfectly”?

          Makes total sense.

    2. What will we believe? Good point. Perhaps if it is a really deadly situation almost every person will know someone who had the disease or one who passed from it. The TP will never return, the food will be out for very a long time, news media will be truly scared and POTUS will be in a bunker giving news up dates. Seeing is believing they say, like 9-11. There was no mistaking that.

  2. Politics and science don’t mix. Politicians abuse science to advance their agendas. Brainwashing the masses to accept myth as truth. COVID-19 is just the latest. Instill fear, convince folks their survival depends on people smarter than them (agenda driven politicians of course). History tends to repeat itself, yet we never seem to remember.

    Remember this though, the same folks that cried “acid rain”, too much ozone, too little ozone, AIDS was going to decimate us – no one was safe, global warming, ………..are now pushing world wide change because of COVID-19. All these were used to convince people their survival was dependent on following orders and giving up freedoms………all were justified by “science”.

    Hitler’s genocide of the Jews was, in the minds of the German people, was justifiable because science (removing inferior genetics from the human race). Done to insure the survival of the master race.

    1. There’s just a different “master race” now, based on money and bloodline rather than genetics.

    2. Dennis
      Dont forget that Hitlers eugenics programs were the same basically as the ones started in the USA a decade or so prior, the origins of this stuff will curdle your blood.
      Alive and well back in the good ole USA again i suspect

    3. This virus is similar but definitely not the same as previous viral outbreaks.The absolute #1 responsibility of government is the safety of its citizens. In this case the mitigation actions employed fall into two categories.Damned if you do. Damned if you don’t.

      Mistakes have been made by scientists and politicians alike. In my opinion the mistakes were a result of an abundance of caution,not a plan to gain more power or control.

      I’m sure we can cite instances and examples of really crazy over reach
      by some in authority. I tend to think that they were mistakes of the head not of the heart. Can we agree that some folks aren’t very smart in crisis situations?

      I’m not trying to step on anyone’s toes or get into pissing match on who did or didn’t do the right thing. I believe our leaders hoped and prayed that their actions would work for the best.

      1. Vickie,

        Where in the Constitution does it say the absolute #1 responsibility of government is the safety of its citizens? I would disagree and argue that the primary role of the US government is to protect the liberty of its citizens.


      2. The purpose of government is not to keep us safe; it is to keep us free.

      3. Vickie

        No toes stepped on – it’s good to have conversations and learn.

        Here’s what the constitution says, along with some commentary, about the role of the federal government:

        The Constitution’s Preamble says the federal government was established (and the Constitution was adopted) to “form a more perfect union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquillity, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity.”

        The Constitution’s articles, and the subsequent Amendments, specify the prerogatives of the Feds. They are listed in Article I, Sec. 8; Articles II-V; Amendments XIII-XVI, XIX-XX, XXIII-XXVI. These prerogatives belong to one of the following categories:

        1) Defense, war prosecution, peace, foreign relations, foreign commerce, and interstate commerce;

        2) The protection of citizens’ constitutional rights (e.g the right to vote) and ensuring that slavery remains illegal;

        3) Establishing federal courts inferior to the SCOTUS;

        4) Copyright protection;

        5) Coining money;

        6) Establishing post offices and post roads;

        7) Establishing a national set of universal weights and measures;

        8 ) Taxation needed to raise revenue to perform these essential functions.

        Those are the only prerogatives of the Feds. The Tenth Amendment states that all prerogatives not explicitly given to the Federal Government, nor prohibited of the states, are reserved to the states or to the people (i.e. individual Americans). So the Feds are not allowed to handle any issues not explicitly listed in the Constitution; their prerogatives are limited to what the Constitution explicitly states.

        I do not see where safety falls in that list. Good thing, IMO. The argument for safety is a cover for a multitude of overreaches and abuses of power.

        1. Sorry, Ken, for getting a bit off-topic. Not sure how to reply withing a thread and move to open forum.

          Some of the above was excerpt from post by Zbigniew Mazurak. (All the really good writing, lol.)

    4. For me personally, it all comes down to the vaccine issue. I do not like it at all. The labs are rushing to be the 1st, to make the most, in the 100 million doses. 100 million folks. 330,819,326 is the population today of the US. This is what to look out for and the results could not be seen for years. Especially in our young.

      1. I agree. I would not trust ANY vaccine ‘rushed’ out to the public. Especially with Bill gates involved in it.

    5. Germans thought arrest and imprisonment of Jews in labor camps was justified because they were at war with communists that killed 100 million people, and communism was heavily supported by Jews (Marx and Trotsky we’re Jews as were most of the Russian intellectuals who pushed for the Bolshevik revolution). Jews in the U.S. today control 3/4 the broadcast networks, half of Hollywood actors, half of film producers, half of news media editors, and a lot of other positions in academic, politics, and finance. Yet they are 3% of the population. Who do you think are opposed to free speech, opposed to religious freedom for christians, support big government bureaucracy, support high taxes, are opposed to school choice, support gun control, support the police state, support nanny state laws, support nanny state cops, and etc. Statistics don’t lie that say 80% of Jews in the U.S. are liberals.

      1. Another thing to consider is that most polls don’t request demographic data such as religion or ethnic identification unless that identification is the purpose of the poll. In that case they usually target areas with high numbers of that demographic. If someone refuses to identify the demographic they simply don’t include them in the poll numbers.

      2. Thank you for the thoughtful insight into polling data. There is nothing wrong with knowing who everyone is. Demographic information is at the center of Coronavirus reporting and there is no reason why we shouldn’t do the same when discussing leadership in companies and industries.

        Below are the leaders of the biggest internet giants of social media and the search engine, advertising, and video powerhouse that is google. 3 out of the 4 big broadcast networks are also listed. For financial reporting Bloomberg obviously is listed. The recent federal reserve chairs and the treasury secretaries since the 1990s are listed.
        The same disproportionate amount exists in other industries like cable network executives, film producers (not just Weinstein), film directing, tv directing, tv producing, music producing, publishing, and finance.

        Google: Larry Page & Sergei Brin
        Facebook: Zuckerberg

        ABC: Bob Iger
        NBC: Jeff Zucker
        CBS: Moonves until 2018, now Strauss Zelnick; Sumner Redstone (majority voting shareholder of ViacomCBS


        In Finance:

        Fed Chair: Greenspan, Bernanke, Yellen
        Treasury Secretary: Robert Rubin, Larry Summers, Jack Lew, Steve Mnuchin

        Not everyone can be like Michael Savage or Sheldon Adelson who are champions of conservative principles. Adelson runs the biggest casino company in the world and I love his support of conservative causes. Michael Savage’s son just became a billionaire by selling his Rockstar energy drink company to Pepsi. Let’s hope he is like father politically. Michael Savage grew up as a San Francisco liberal but changed his views after practicing as a social worker and having earned a PhD in epidemiology and nutrition. I myself changed from a typical neo con into a real conservative/libertarian that recognizes the danger of big government, including the police state and foreign military intervention ( don’t blame me for the biggest disaster that was the Iraq war as I was young).

        When 78% or 71% percent of Jewish voters vote for candidates that oppose fundamental freedoms we cherish it is an important statistic. These voters are the biggest proponents of harmful policies in academia, corporate America, media, and entertainment. They are the biggest supporters of gun control, criminalizing speech, censoring our views, firing christians or conservatives from government or private sector jobs for supporting christian or conservative causes, pushing nanny state laws like soda bans, and pushing for government funded abortions. If 3/4 of the broadcast networks have the same type of leadership and those media organizations push liberalism on the public and our kids, it should be known.

      1. MSG12B,

        Now that’s scary…………I’ll be needing extra therapy after perusing that site. At first, I thought the site was a parody, but after surfing around inside the site……….these folks are for real. Somehow, I don’t think our “happiness” is really their goal.

        Sort of reminds me of when I was a child, helping herd the steers into the holding pens adjacent the packing house. As they lined up at the feed troughs eating the molasses laced sweet feed. They must of thought “life don’t get no better than this”………right before they entered the slaughter room………….

  3. Is that per population or per confirmed infection? The current death rate in Chicago is 4.5% 73,097 infected, 3,324 deaths. The rate is the same for the rest of Illinois, though most of the cases are in the Chicago area.

    1. Grits,
      Definition from,

      Case fatality rate is calculated by dividing the number of deaths from a specified disease over a defined period of time by the number of individuals diagnosed with the disease during that time; the resulting ratio is then multiplied by 100 to yield a percentage.

      This calculation differs from that used for mortality rate, another measure of death for a given population.

      1. Human beings are incredible adapt at mis-understanding data! Covid is an example of how government sells us information. Mortality rate and case fatality rate are prime examples. Neither is a measure of how deadly a pathogen is. What could I possibly mean? Consider this virus or any other disease for that matter. But let’s take Covid-19. Think about what follows very carefull before you come to an option. Example: let’s say the case fatality rate in the U.S. is 0.4% and the case fatality rate in Italy is 0.6 %. What? How could this be? This is the same virus in two different locations. What we are actually measuring is the the ability of two different medicial systems (one in the U.S. and one in Italy) ability to pull people back from death. We are measuring system capability not virus lethality.
        This may be very hard to understand, I know it is hard to explain. For the general public this is not useful information but it is good government talking points.

        1. Texas Boy,
          There’s more to it than that too. The age of the population (and/or a given region) comes into play too. The general health of a population (or region) too. Those are just two obvious additional factors.

          The vast majority of deaths of this Wuhan Flu have been nursing homes/elderly. A number of governors are responsible (in my opinion) for thousands upon thousands of deaths because they mandated that Covid nursing home patients be put back (or kept) into nursing homes – a death warrant for the rest. But that’s an aside…

          What would be really interesting is to discover the Total Deaths (from/by “everything”) for the months of March, April, May. Then compare total deaths to past history for those months. Is there a spike (thus indicative of Covid?) or is it relatively the same (indicative of people dying of flu, pneumonia, etc, but diagnosed as Covid death). Or somewhere in between.

          Just a thought.

        2. I’ve seen different data. I’ve seen websites using the 2019 data and presenting it as 2020 (Look! No spike!) and others trying to extrapolate the 2020 data, but the CDC only publishes their reports a year or so later. So the 2020 information will come out some time end of 2021. I’m not sure where some of the others are getting their information. I’ve seen websites that claim to have accurate weekly death stats for various countries (US, UK), but with no source I can’t verify. Some show spikes, some do not, and supposedly they’re from the same areas.

    2. Grits, I am not sure even the death rates are accurate. Any death here in NY is being listed as a Covid death, friend’s FIL has brain cancer in Dec and given 30 days, he just died…it was listed as Covid and he had NO symptoms. Another friend just lost his mom from sudden hear attack…it was listed as a Covid. No symptoms and no tests were done. These are the only ones I am personally familiar with but we keep hearing from others in the community that every death is listed as Covid by direction of the state. Any other time it would be a felony to give a false death report. In one of these cases, the family was furious and wanted the death certificate changed and their request was refused.

      The stats are not real…all lies. Probably no more deaths from this than any other really bad flu…and we were already warned this would be a horrible flu season.

      1. According to MSN, Medicare pays hospitals 20% more if they have a admission of Covid 19.

    3. Many $hitcago area deaths are from nursing homes. As of a few days ago “statistics” 48% of deaths from Covid in Illinois were from Nursing Homes. There are counties in Illinois that have 80 to 100% deaths from nursing home residents. Now if a nursing home patient is transferred to the hospital before death, they don’t count it as a nursing home fatality. I would really like to know what it going on with the infection running rampant in nursing homes, but not throughout the population. For instance a couple of towns near me have 10 to 20 people positive for covid, but that is the number for the amount of patients infected in the local nursing homes. Where is it coming from?

      1. Just recently the first death in our county was in a nursing home. 1 out of 14 positive.

    4. Is that death rate from covid 19 or from gun shots from the drive by shooting or robberies.

      1. just does it compare to the death toll fr kids (little kids and dough heads) eating those laundry/dishwasher pods?….Heard over past few yrs of a number of serious injuries them been eaten as “candy” (and deaths). Okay, okay, not as many, but just making the point, there are lots of stupid ways that never get tallied up…(how about death from snake bite/poison mushrooms?)…ok, will quit now..

      2. FactFinder – COVID death rate = 0.4% – Baltimore homicide rate = 0.57%

  4. You can’t start counting until the event is over. And it’s not, yet.

    1. You mean like the projections of war casualties? Ohhh Vietnam will be over soon…….

  5. This has been a trial run on how easy it will be to subdue the general population, the effectiveness of social media and mainstream media in spreading a specific message and the willingness of the population to forfeit their Constitutional rights for some perceived security and “the common good” of society.

    The worst thing this fraud has shown is way more people have willingly rolled over to government propaganda, bought into the mass hysteria and threw their freedom on the altar of whatever it takes to make them feel safe.

  6. How quickly the citizens gave up liberties and freedoms as the “news propaganda machine” spewed out its blather and pablum.The “flu” event seems to be a test run to me .
    The event showed me to not rely on the government clowns, at all levels of authority, for truthful direction. It is not the governments job to protect us or feed us or give us free money.
    I fear our American empire is in its waning days.We should be telling politicians what to do instead of them telling us how to live our lives.

    1. We humans are quite susceptible to the fears of death and no TP. Control the food, control the masses.

  7. My county has 183,000 population per 2012 census, 128 people are infected, percentage of the population infected is 0.06 percent, or 6/100ths of 1 percent, not blip on the graph. 8 people passed as reported due to covid- deaths per infected is 6 percent, deaths per county population is 0.004 percent most of the deaths were in an assisted living location.

    In stores I wear a mask so others don’t poop their pants, other than that quietly going about business as usual, fishing, immediate family get togethers. Living rural not too much difference, if I lived more urban or big city I probably would be pretty wound, not going to “safe shelter” at home again, the elected “peoples representatives” can stick that one.

    1. Statistical models are only as good as the assumptions built into the calculations.

      Also what data goes in; the old computer engineers saying “garbage in = garbage out” not the computers fault.

      Two issues possibly: jacked up or crappy data going in and unrealistic program code.

      I do not want to get going on the differences between scientist and engineers. Both are important fields, but very different solution arrival and implementation processes and timing.

    2. You are looking at possible 726 deaths in your county at 0.4%. I have been estimating 0.2% which would be 363 deaths. The largest current percentage to date is 0.15% in the world, the daily death rate is slowing when it reaches about 0.08%.

  8. Bad data. Bad assumptions. Bad projections. Just a small amount of politics (sarcasm). And on and on and on. The real data, IMO, will be out after this fall after the second outbreak of the virus. Either a big nothing or like the Spanish flu a nightmare.

    If this was a bio-weapon it must have escaped before it was complete. If you have to get your enemy to lock patients up in nursing homes to get a statistical good “kill” ratio you better go back to square one.

    Right now it seems we have panicked. If anything good comes out of this perhaps the national stockpiles of essential medicines and equipment will be replenished and people will be resistant to locking themselves up.

  9. Idle thought from an old man living way back in the boonies.

    If authorities are having such a hard time getting an accurate count of covid-19 deaths, why is it that they would have us believe they won’t screw up the counting of mail-in ballots?

  10. The whole thing smells of bullshit and a large scale dry run by the globalist azzhats, they are in all governments, they all hate DJT and they all hate independent minded individuals.
    We shall see but so far i smell a rat

    1. Our state, 17 deaths
      Yep, 17
      The state legislature has a 2 billion Dollar hole Or something ridiculous like that because of the shutdown, reported unemployment at 25% its more like 45%
      17 deaths, more people died from overdoses in one month than that

      1. Kulafarmer,
        Very true words. Desperate,hungry and dependent people are easy to control.Stay safe on your island.

      2. Kulafarmer spot on! Also don’t forget to include ignorant in that list.

    2. Kulafarmer

      I only hope it’s a dry run. They have an awful lot of the mechanisms in place now, and a great percentage of the populace seems willing to go along with just about anything if it will save them from the dreaded virus.

      1. Farmgirl, just wait until the power grid fails everywhere. If TPTB can’t keep us in with a pandemic, what will they use next? And I still think this is a controlled global economic collapse starting. A global reset. That’s the big picture I keep coming up with.

        And egads, I hope I’m wrong. Really wrong.

        1. DJ5280

          I hope you’re wrong, too, but I tend to agree with you. There was trouble in the financial markets last fall, to the point where the Fed was pouring money into the Repo market – to the tune of a few trillion dollars, if memory serves. Our resources were already strained, including our food supply, last year. I hope I live long enough to look back on this period of history with an opportunity to more clearly see how so many dots connect – financial crash, space weather, political/elite in-fighting, population control agenda, etc… There are just so many variables at play, it’s hard to know what to focus on preparing for. Trying to prepare for all of it is really challenging.

        2. I once tried to prepare for ‘everything’ and then just decided we must keep things as simple and uncomplicated as we can. We are prepared to live like the 1800’s if need be. We stay out of debt, try to be somewhat self-sufficient, but I am not planning on trying to keep everything running like it is now. We will adapt to new conditions as quickly as possible. And I think now that this virus was a good trial run for all of us. (Not saying it was a good thing to happen). It presented an opportunity to all of us to see how prepared we truly are and what we need to do differently. Who knows what is coming next. Could be a major national disaster, or something like that. Or, like we said, economic collapse. And there are so many things going on globally that it boggles the mind. Crazy times we are living in.

        3. DJ5280 – I concur heartily! I too “used to” try to prepare for everything and anything. Along the way I learned slowly that EVERYTHING will eventually go bad. My six cases of N-95 masks, from 2013 went bad. The rubberized straps rotted right off them. My emergency stash of Macallan Single Malt Scotch… well, the corks “went bad” – they soften and crumbled when opened. (Yes, I salvaged it). And I learned that store-bought canned soup, universally sucks. Spring for the Campbell’s or Progresso already! The great scamdemic of 2020 was an excellent dry-run; for a lot of things; many lessons were learned.

        4. DJ5280

          Agree, it’s impossible prepare for everything. I catch myself trying sometimes, and it can wear a person out! Your 1800’s preps are probably a good way to cover most of it. It seems like the best approach is just to cover the basics, without electricity in the equation. I’m on my way there, just don’t have easy water in place yet. There’s no way I’ll store enough for people and animals for any length of time. A hand pump for the well is on my list, and I’ll breathe a little easier when I have that in place.

        5. Farmgirl

          Just wait until Ken gets around to his Level 4 preparedness articles.

        6. DJ5280,
          The ability to adapt rapidly to changing conditions is a very valuable survival skill to develop. Good for you recognizing that upfront. Being that you are on the Front Range you will have a different set of issues to deal with than those of us in the boonies. Ideally you will have some sort of bugout or relocation plan if things over there get bad enough. I understand this if difficult for many people with families to arrange. But even a temporary relocation plan would be better than none. Just do your best, and trust God will have your back, which will bring you some peace of mind. It did for me when I lived over there many moons ago.

  11. When it comes to these sorts of data, I like a little more granularity.

    For example (using CDC’s data through May 20 –

    32% of deaths occurred in those 85 years old and older, and among them up to 41% had an existing comorbidity of either pneumonia or influenza. Up to another 56% of this age group had some other existing respiratory illness or condition. In addition, up to 44% has some heart/circulatory problem, and up to 23% had Alzheimer’s or some other form of dementia. So, being very old and very sick makes one vulnerable to death by Covid-19. 43% were non-Hispanic whites (compared to 60.4% of the general population.)

    Ages 75-84 made up 27%.

    My age group (65-74) made up 21% of the reported deaths. Up to 112% had a respiratory illness; that means that some had more than one condition. Up to 63% had a heart/circulatory problem. Diabetes (18%) and renal failure (9%) were the only other two significant contributing comorbidities. 21% were non-Hispanic whites (compared to 60.4% of the general population.) So being older, nonwhite, and very very sick increases the chance of dying from this virus at my age.

    So, 80% of all deaths befell those 65 and older, and 53% the non-Hispanic whites.

    We’ll see, as there is more and more testing, whether the overall IFR holds here. And whether the differentiations based on age, ethnicity, and comorbidities remains steady.

    As once quoted by Mark Twain, there are lies, damn lies, and statistics. These are statistics.

    That being said, there are so many engulfed in grief, at a time when we are remembering our war dead, and also when so many are out of work and dealing with financial hardship. Time to be more compassionate and caring than ever.

  12. Vicki touches on a good point. In the West, largely and initially, scientists and politicians tried their best. They were first hampered by the CCP’s silencing of their scientists who were trying to speak the truth and then by the WHO leadership’s unquestioning acceptance of CCP statements.

    NB – In some cultures, China being one, the concept of saving face (avoiding embarrassment, refusing to accept any level of culpability, standing up for the more prominent when their humiliation may be a risk) has more value than truth, integrity, accomplishing a mission, avoiding disaster or death to others, and financial security. This is something I’m not sure many Americans appreciate. The force of such a value can be pretty scary.

    And then along came that first model that predicted over 2 million deaths in the US, and was based on the premise that there would be no interventions that would keep our health infrastructure from failing (like in Italy), and no mitigation of transmission (like in Iran). Stupid model – Americans are nothing if not reactive. And of course the MSM runs with it.

    When lies, withholding of the truth, stupid presumptions, and hysterical round-the-clock rumor mongering is all one has to work with, one does one’s best. As we independently gathered our own data, and verified what we were hearing, we adapted. And that’s when many politicians, esp at the SLTT (states, localities, tribes, and territories) level began to think that short-term pain could yield long-term gain, if they could just keep Trump from being re-elected. The pain has been intense, personally devastating to tens of millions of Americans, and only adds to the tragedy of this unique virus.

    Let’s pray their plan blows up in their faces, that we have a V-shaped recovery, and that the libsiders are left with far less political power after November.

    Globally, this has been a disaster too. Hard to remember how little time has passed and how quickly this storm blew up. Here’s an interesting, but not comprehensive and a little on the lib side, timeline:

  13. It looks like we might not know the fatality rate of the SARS-CoVid 2 virus for a while yet. I remember reading a pre-release research paper earlier this year, before the virus took hold in the US. The two researchers were from an Indian facility, and had examined/mapped the genome of the virus, finding some HIV-like sections (insertions?). I bookmarked the paper, but it mysteriously disappeared.

    There’s a new study out today, not yet peer reviewed, from scientists at a Chinese university. The article is at ZH, and contains a link to the paper. The jist of it is that this virus may be evading immune system detection by removing the marker infected cells display so killer T-cells can identify and destroy them. Just like HIV.

    The author of the post’s theory is researchers were working on an AIDS vaccine, came up with this little gem of a virus to help them find it, and had an accidental leak.

    It may be this virus hangs around for a while. I sure hope not.

  14. Peripheral to a discussion of death rate for this virus is a discussion of cross-societal impact.

    Dr. Pry just published an interesting article about historical changes in global balance of power brought on by disease. Originally titled “Coronavirus: Our Plague of Justinian?”

    The book Plagues and Peoples by William McNeill is a good history on the subject.

    While many just want to “get back to normal” others see this event as a catalyst for political change. Interesting times we find ourselves in.

  15. Question for you long-term preppers…

    Wife and I purchased a new GE 17.3cu ft. upright freezer in Feb. and then ordered its deep freeze sister in April and that should be in any day now we’re told.

    Through this “dry run” we’ve decided to stop getting our meats and produce through places like Whole Foods, Fresh Market and others. We’re now signed up for CSAs through several local farms for meat and produce. Do you think it’s necessary and smart to have a deep freeze along with an upright or overkill? Wondering if we should go forward with the deep freeze pick-up or just stick with upright. Any farmers have any thoughts on food supply? Would hate to give it up and then turn around and need it, but I want to be smart. I generally hate “stuff” or just collecting stuff unless it’s absolutely necessary. Torn on this one.

    Thanks for any advice you can offer to us. We’re a bit more green than some of you.

    1. MSG12B

      Big yes on the deep freeze, IMO. More energy efficient than an upright, stays colder longer, and great for taking advantage of sales, bulk purchases and fresh produce in season. My family has had a chest freezer for years, and always made very good use of it. We used it so much, that we bought a second one, for bulk meat purchases before we started raising our own.

      I’m not a big farmer, but I sell directly to customers – grass-fed beef, pastured poultry and garden starts. This has been an unusual year for me. I’ve been sold out of beef until September for a few weeks now, all of the chickens I’m raising are pre-sold and some of the next round also, and my greenhouse plant sales are at least double what they were last year.

      There are multiple pressures on our food supply: disrupted supply chains, weather events (last year and this), significant price increases, other people’s buying behaviors (panic buying), and maybe even civil unrest. Any one impacts food security, and all of them are in play this year.

      Congrats on the deep freeze, and the local food sourcing. Both are really smart choices, and I’ll bet you’ll appreciate them a lot before long.

  16. MSG12B –

    You can never go wrong with a deep freezer. Cold air sinks, so you don’t lose it all when opening the lid, like with your fridge. If you keep it packed with food, no air gaps, darn thing is almost self-sustaining; not even a blip on my electric bill. I don’t even keep meat in there, and it is full – always. Even my notoriously cheapskate wife begrudgingly admits that was a wise purchase. You cannot know how rare is such a remark.

  17. An incredible 43 percent of coronavirus deaths occurred in nursing homes and assisted-living facilities, reports Forbes.

    The 2.1 million Americans who live in nursing homes and ALFs represent just 0.62 percent of the population, but a staggering 43 percent of America’s coronavirus deaths.

    Forbes adds that this is almost certainly an undercount.

    The mainstream media has been having us believe that deaths are occurring widely across the broad demographic makeup of the population. Instead (and they’ve known this), a huge percentage of deaths have been in nursing homes – the very elderly.

    Thus, the disproportional fear among everyone else.

    The focus on this virus (protection, contagion, lockdown) should have been targeted at the elderly and where they live. Their assisted living facilities, etc.

    A few examples of coronavirus deaths in assisted living facilities for the following states:

    In Minnesota, the number is a breathtaking 81.4 percent.

    Washington State: 61.1 percent.

    Pennsylvania: 69.2 percent.

    Ohio: 70 percent.

    Virginia: 62.8 percent.

    North Carolina: 63.3 percent.

    Massachusetts: 61.9 percent.

    New Hampshire: 69.8 percent.

    The four worst governors who have (in my view) caused the most and untold thousands of deaths in nursing homes are Cuomo, Whitmer, Wolf, Newsom.


    1. Ken, thank you for “collecting the numbers”…Long suspected such was the case.

      Also though..let’s be real, here. We are talking elderly. Often in Nursing Homes due to some serious health conditions. How many would have died, anyway? (not in any way mitigating the death).

      I have long felt nursing home/similar cleanliness and care were “lacking”. Have worked in them yrs ago, have visited many through out the yrs. Lacking is a mild way to put it. How many caught the virus due to this? How many died due to this?

      I have also seen many news reports of elderly who had/survived the virus. Sometimes very elderly. So, it does not seem to be due to being elderly. Possibly due to the situation elderly find themselves in (lack of cleanliness/proper care)..?

      1. Jane, no, the outbreaks occurred in nursing homes because for one, the disease is highly contagious. But the primary reason was state governors and health “officials” within the bureaucracies who did not adequately isolate the elderly who had covid. Instead, they allowed them to coexist right into the population of these nursing homes. This has killed thousands upon thousands of those elderly people. That’s the reason. Poor government decisions.

        My point for posting those numbers is to illustrate that Covid is not as bad as they would have us believe among the regular population. I’m not trying to downplay the disease itself. However nearly half the deaths have happened inside nursing homes. Because the Covid patients were not isolated while the disease spread like wildfire within those systems.

    2. Ken

      In Washington because we had most of the earliest deaths before we knew what hit us.

      In NY, MI and others because the governors ORDERED nursing homes to take infected patients back when they were released from the hospital and to intake new clients even if they were infected. And they refused to reconsider even when nursing home administrators pointed out they did not have facilities, equipment, or sufficient staff to be able to isolate infected patients.

      Most of those deaths happened over just a few weeks. I hope those politicians feel the pain of every one of them.

      1. AnonyMee, correct! The Nursing homes and Adult Care Facilities in NY were ordered by Cuomo to absorb infected people and there was room at the hospitals to keep 5he sick people. He did not care that these facilities could not properly isolate them from the rest of the population. Many facilities could not get the needed medical & cleaning supplies needed either although that did come in eventually.

        Cuomo has a new rule to test All these staff twice weekly at a cost that will bankrupt these facilities. The results of the first test are not even in before the staff have to show up for 5he second weekly test. These are 24 hr facilities which means night workers and late shift workers have to come in on their own time to get tested because the “testers” come during the day shift. A $2,000 per day fine if you do not comply. Many workers are fed up with Cuomo’s edicts.

  18. Ken:
    your report revealing care centers like SNF’s and assisted living facilities is not news to me as I mentioned this at the start of this lockdown. I will restate that the facility I was in had a very high rate of turnover that year with the beds filling as fast as they were being vacated.

    Jane F.: it is a tough job to do and some of us still work in some type of extended care facility. True that care and cleanliness may be lacking along with adequate PPE and cleaning supplies. But, some of us are still showing up for work 40 hrs a week and are doing the best we can with what we have.

    Under conditions like this, many of our co-workers will call in too-freaked-out-to-show-up-for-work-for-the-rest-of-their-lives. To that I say good riddance. We need people that will show up for work through thick and thin. This is also thinning the herd of wannabe nurses too. This will make room for another crop of young nurses aides. Some of whom will have the brains and where-with-all to become RN’s as I did over 20 years ago.

    Sorry to run on with the long rant but the tendency seems to be to blame the facilities for the difficult and dirty conditions within some SNF’s and assisted living facilities. Those of us that work in those places fear the airborne contagion the most and this year, the nightmare came true for many facilities. Those that are not closed down are receiving patients from other facilities and we are screening patients from start to end of shift.

    In this time of high unemployment, we are still hiring….how many are willing to step up and change diapers and empty trash with me? Time for me to shower and get ready for my shift.

  19. Covid was the wound that let the infection in that is likely gonna kill all of us. It’s a big part of all this SHTF situation We all are now facing. There’s no fixing this train wreck, We are all gonna have to go through the coming SH*T storm.

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