Is It SHTF Safe While Living Within 50 Miles Of 1-Million People?

city-hordes

Over the years I’ve often addressed the general topic of population density versus one’s security, well-being, and ability to survive following a long lasting SHTF event. Let’s have a new look at the issue, but this time from the standpoint of living in a seemingly safe geographical location – except that you’re still within 50 miles of a region with 1 million or more people…

The scenario is the following…


 
Let’s hypothetically say that you are living rural or in a region of suburbia with a relatively low population density. You feel pretty safe. You may even be living in a very small town or off the beaten path to the extent that it ‘feel’s like you’re far away from ‘the city’.

But here’s the flip side:
Within a 30 minute drive (or an hour) there is either a city or a population-dense region of 1 million or more people. You and your neighbors may even commute into this region for work…

The question:
Will you be safe during a long-lasting SHTF event?

 
To answer that question, you might consider the following in your decision matrix:

How severe is the SHTF event? Has it crippled essential services?

How long has the event been unfolding and how long until these people ‘truly’ become desperate and reach a point of serious ‘unrest’?

What will the 1 million people do? Will they sit and wait for help or for an ‘end’ to the event?
Or will some of them take to the road?

For those who take to the road while they search for essential services and supplies, will they potentially make it to your region 50 miles away?

How far might they get, and would they even become a potential threat to where you live?

Or would the chaos be mostly and only confined to the population-dense region (or city) itself?

 
The notion of the ‘zombie hordes’ comes into play. Will it actually happen?

If living within 50 miles, will you be in danger even while living relatively rural?
What’s the cutoff? 25 miles? 100 miles? more? less?

 
Lets hear your opinion about the hypothetical of living pretty close to population density, but seemingly far enough away so as not to be part of that region… Is it ‘safe enough’?

If not, then ‘why’? If yes, then ‘why’?

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135 Comments

  1. I personally think that 50 miles is too close. 100 miles minimum would be more realistic – a lot safer!

    1. The safe distance depends largely upon the ‘diversity’ of the population-dense area.

    2. 50 miles is way to close, many people commute that far to work everyday. If your within a tank of gas of a city of 1 million people your to close for safety. Where I live there is only one city over 100,000 within a tank of gas and thats a big tank, and that would be Salt Lake City, and its full of Mormons who are known to be preppers. It just don’t get any better than this. Trekker Out.

      1. mormons and their church will capitulate to fedgov to keep their church and way of life

      2. As the previous responder pointed out, the LDS church will capitulate. They already have with their canneries! But worse is the vast majority of rank & file Mormons no longer have a year of stored food for each member of their household. You’d be lucky to find 1 in 10 whom even have a years worth of food for 1 person, let alone everyone in the house. The suburban sprawl of Utah, household debt loads, & the fact that there are Jone’s everywhere in Deseret should more than make you think twice about how prepared Mormons really are. As a people, they have squandered their heritage.

    3. Think of this unrealistic math though:
      100 mile radius = 200miles * pi * 5280 feet/mile = 3.31 million foot circumference.

      If all of the people in a city of population 1,000,000 *had* to leave now, and spread out evenly in a circle, then inOf course, less than three days, at that radius of 100 miles, assuming they didn’t stop or die on the way, the people would be only 3.31 feet apart from one another each. That means that on a 1/4 acre suburban lot at that distance, you’d have 30 people crossing through the border of your lot.

      Of course that’s why we use terrain and roads to protect ourselves, so we are ‘below average’ targets.

      1. And of case calculating 98% of the population depend on govt., fast food and grocery stores and have lost all the skills of our ancestors. They will be starving to death and result to killing each other within 3 months less the energy to walk any long distances without energy and calories to do so. They will die before they get to far so yes it’s smarter to have a location at least 100 miles from any major city !

    4. I once read that you should be about an hour out and 1/4 mile off the freeway. one way in and one way out I found a place 48 minutes out of the city and it is way on top of this mountain and really big lots and neighborhood is gated community it’s pretty remote. with mostly med size house some small and I don’t see how anyone would ever be able to walk up this terrain without dying from exhaustion. The neighbors nice real serious country people that really stick together when times are tough like if trees go down or people are snowed help is near if you need it. My wife did not want to be all alone way out in the boonies and ” be the lone wolf.” So, this was a good choice

  2. Good article Ken and very thought provoking as this is close to my situation.

    I am about 55 miles as the crow fly’s from a population center closer to 500K. If there was a massive bug out from this pop center the people could obviously head East, South, West or North. Those heading West would would be on a path towards my bug out location.

    Fortunately, there is only one route and it traverses some hostile territory. Felling some trees across the path and other obstacles would probably result in a culling of the horde as those fleeing start to bump into each other with parched throats and hungry bellies. I pity them but also realize they would be a danger to those in my area who have been preparing.

    1. I disagree. Most people can’t walk 10 miles. They also need to bring food and water with them to walk far. Between 10-20 miles of walking they can expect foot blisters which will keep people away as well. In a grid down scenario expect roads clogged and impassable except by foot, bicycle or maybe dirtbike. Most people will bunker in unless the fires or criminals drive them to become refugees.

  3. 50 miles is too close. Even at 60+ I could walk 50 miles if I had to in search of safety.

    We are about 140 miles from the nearest city of any size, and while inconvenient for daily shopping, I STILL think it is too close. LOL Most folks would not do well with the altitude here either. That may be an advantage. Certainly those not used to it would struggle. And, the up-down terrain is rugged as well. (I have lived here and experienced it, so I KNOW!)

    We chose this spot many years ago, not for a SHTF scenario, but for its lovely remoteness. My husband and I each felt something else when we first saw it….after moving here (we used it for camping/recreation for many years first) we figured out what the real “draw” was. Now we are immensely happy to be here!

    1. I spent my summers here my whole life at my grandparents remote log cabin on a lake and moved here because of the beauty of the wilderness. But more than that because of the abundant natural resources to live independently away from the modern sheeple society and their socialist agendas.

      Lets say I am in your corner, however I have different obstacles for migration called the state bird (mosquito), the state pet (clingy ticks), old man winter (30-40 below zero), and who in the hell wants to live there? (city folk). Like you with your up and down roads and altitude, these obstacles I have learned to live with, and glad no one else wants to. :-)

    2. I ran/walked in last year’s 2014 New York Marathon. I was not in as good of shape (had 2 heart stints in 2012) as I was when I ran the 2011 Chicago Marathon.

      I ran/walked 26.2 miles in under 7 hours. I took my time and enjoyed myself, but push come to shove, I could do 50 miles in a day.

      So really, big cities within 100, 200 or even 300 miles are NOT that far away, even with walking.

      1. I agree with you. Many will be able to drive 4 plus hours and then be able to walk for days to escape the cities when disaster strikes. A safe location to inhabit would need to be hundreds of miles away from the big cities. Even at my age I can walk over ruff terrain covering as much as 15 miles per day with a 40 pound backpack.

  4. I have given this some thought. I live in a town of 1,800 in an area that only has 2 1/2 people per sq mile (50,000 in the four-county area that encompasses most of the NW quarter of Wyoming. Billings MT (pop about 90,000) is 130 miles away; Casper WY (pop about 5,000) is 200 miles.

    We are protected by mountains on 3 sides; once the snows come, the passes would be closed until someone with equipment comes to clear them — or until late summer, when it would be almost time for new snow to fall.

    To the west is Sylvan Pass into Yellowstone Nat’l Park always closed in winter; to the NW is Beartooth Pass, always closed in winter; to the NE is Granite Pass; to the east is Powder River Pass; and to the south is Wind River Canyon, which could be closed at its northern end by just a few guards, preventing access to the Big Horn Basin by road, water or rail, since they all converge in an area just a few feet wide.

    That leaves access from Billings to the north. There are two paved roads that could be blocked off at Frannie and just north of Clark. There are also a couple of very rough paved roads to the north and one to the south, but with just a couple dozen people we could keep everyone out.

    That means surviving on what we have here in the Basin. Cattle, Pronghorn, a few deer and fish, sugar beets, a sugar factory…..that’s about it. Oh, and a few fields of sunflowers in the northern part of Big Horn County. There is not much wood to burn for fuel, and not enough rain water to grow many crops. That means we are all ok as long as we all store A LOT of food, firewood and other supplies.

      1. Good point. But where in the US would you be safe if Yellowstone explodes? Even if there were to be a place that had only a little ash, the nation’s bread basket would be under several feet of ash and be unavailable for farming or ranching for decades to come. I have to hope that the eruption is delayed until technology comes up with some way to stop it or protect against it.

        1. @ DaisyK
          I feel the same way about a Nuke-War, go ahead and drop the first one on my head, get it over with cause ain’t nobody (civilians) going to make it through in the long run.
          NRP

        2. Yeah. I have looked at alot of the models. I would have lots of ash but be alive to bugout. Would probably live off preps for a month or two while everyone else kills each other. Then have to leave the country. Maybe I could go to Syria as a refugee! :)

        3. the U.S.G.S. has maps that show ash fall out as far east as N.J. an as far south east as K.Y. an into T.N.

    1. Wondering if you had enough time to get that small wood stove and get it seasoned and functioning??

      1. Being Watched,

        No. I had looked into it. Thank you. I had a few unexpected expenses the past few weeks, and had to wait.

  5. Many of the people I work with have more than an hour commute each way to and from work every day. Many feel if they can get home they will be o.k. in a SHTF situation, however they feel if the “event” happens while they are at work they have one day at the most to get out of the major metropolitan area we work in due the violence that would start to take place after the unprepared miss their first 3 meals.

    I guess the best question would be how mobile is the “golden horde”. If they are on foot then your odds of making it thru the event just went up (think of how out of shape your typical American is today). A 50 mile walk with out food or water would do a lot of them in (especially in the heat of a southern summer). And take a couple of days for the healthy ones which should give you and your neighbors some time to prepare for their arrival.

    If they can drive where would they go? To Aunt Sally’s in the next state or some other relative’s house not hit by the SHTF event, or would they go where the government tells them to evacuate to (hopefully that would not be your home town). It would also depend on how jammed up the roads are and how close you live to a major interstate or roadway (think the little town of Black Mountain in the book “One Second After”).

    I keep thinking back to hurricanes Katrina and Sandy and all the advanced warnings. The areas that got hit hard and how the people just stayed in place and took the hit, then how long it was before people could be moved from those areas following the hurricanes even with the government’s help.

    Bottom line if the “event” is short lived (weeks or months and not a year plus) 50 miles from a major metropolitan area could be ok if your not too close to a major roadway, if the “event” goes for a prolonged time I have to wonder if anyplace would be truly safe.

  6. Interesting topic, I’m 40 miles to a 50K city, 15 miles from 9K and 20 miles from 12K the other direction. Personally I don’t like the location as far as people, but it’s very defendable. My thinking is that when the SHTF 95% of the sheeple will not even know it for a day or two maybe more. In that amount of time one could become “the gray man” very quickly. If the hordes can find you or don’t believe you have anything, most likely they will pass you by. Even more reason to keep your mouth shut about what you have, OPSEC.

    Last thought, it’s not only the 1 million people that are 50 miles away, what about that neighbor who sorta knows you have “stuff”? The relatives and co workers that say “well I’ll just come to your house”? They will be just as or more dangerous that the hordes. Just remember it only takes one father of a starving family. What would you do if….. ?
    NRP

  7. Geographical features are also a consideration. Mountain ranges and rivers would impede many. I kind of like it where I am. No dense population centers for a couple of hundred miles. Does limit shopping though.

  8. I concur with the stated opinion that the first concern would be the people in your own neighborhood. Most of them would not have been adequately prepared and they would be the first scavengers to arrive, and you wouldn’t have too long to wait. Be prepared!

  9. Unfortunately, I was a late start prepper, due to my job I have a place that is in the middle, big cities 25 miles to the North and south of me. But I have the smoky mountains to the east. I will have to see how it plays out, could bug out if it gets to bad. Nothing but woods and mountains east and west..

  10. Living 50 miles from a big city is not a problem for me. Even though I live on a ranch my next door neighbor is my greatest threat.

    My neighbor and his group (preppers) are extremely dangerous. They plan on taking what ever they want or need and will kill anyone to get it. If the SHTF, they will arrive at their place from the city and will take whatever they need to get to their place. They are highly trained with weapons and survival methods. I just pretend to not be aware of their means and madness; so that they do not know that as they arrive I am prepared to defend my family.

    The point that I am trying to make is that those people that do succeed in traveling those longer distances ( 50, 100 miles) will probably be the most difficult to deal with.

    1. No Joke:

      Sad to hear you have those types of people living next you. Should you come under attack, shot placement will be important. They will wear body armor/plates and might use scare tactics. Head/face, side body and leg shots. Look up the sniper’s “T”. Don’t know if it is legal in your state but Dragon’s Breath will melt the carriers.

      Desperate people are one thing to fight against but those who prepare to prey on others to survive. Put their heads on a pike. Hell I would even impale their bodies next to the road. Sorry for the graphics but they are beasts and should be treated as such.

    2. They are not preppers if they plan to rob people of their supplies. They sound like their own army of paramilitary offenders.

      If I were in your position I would move or go to a BO location far away from them. These types will hit you time and time again, even if you cache your supplies. They will see you are still surviving somehow and torture your supplies out of you if not kill you.

      1. Exactly – these are not preppers. They are thugs. Anyone who would ‘plan’ preemptively to steal from others instead of preparing for themselves, is the scum of the earth, and must be dealt with ‘extreme prejudice’. It sounds like they are preparing – but with weapons only… That’s not a good situation to be near.

      2. Sounds like you may need some force multipliers. Booby traps and heavy firepower and fortified areas. Recommend trip wires, nail boards and marbles.

        For weapons saiga 12 with a 20rnd drum,ar15 or ak 47 with either 75 rnd. drum or 100rnd betamag. Find choke points in your house at entrances and prep sand bags for defensive positions. I know this all sounds like war but that is what it would be and your survival hangs in the balance. A plastic film on the windows and a reinforced door may also help. There are only 2 choices, fight or flight the choice is yours. Hope this helps. Merry Christmas ?

      3. These predators have to win EVERY confrontation. They only have to lose one. Nobody stays undefeated forever. They will probably get deep sixed by some teenager they didn’t see, with a .22, who will then check to see if Instagram is back up.

    3. I’ve got the best neighbor in the world who watches over things and let’s me know if they see anything at all, the only incident we’ve ever had up here is dog down the street came up to our porch and stole my dogs bowl with food in it and brought the empty bowl back a couple days later! We kinda laugh about that being about the most excitement we’ve had in these parts!
      We watched a great series on survival, how this little country town where a lot of people grew up all band together and cooperate . It’s called Jericho it’s a series totally worth watching

  11. There are two threats that people, large groups of people represent. The first threat is the thugs and gangs. These people will act immediately after any disaster to take advantage of it for personal gain or just to rampage. This threat really depends on how close you are to cities infected by these gangs/thugs. Someone once said that when your town finally gets a street named MLK blvd it is time to move.

    The second threat is the classic nine missed meals concept. It might be nine missed meals or a month of struggling or constantly defending oneself and ones family but at some point our learned societal interactions break down and we no longer consider a stranger a fellow American but rather a target or threat. This can and will happen in any town; small town, big town, doesn’t matter except in terms of the numbers.

    Don’t ‘trust’ anyone. Even people you know, people you might now think of as friends, even relatives cannot be trusted. In addition to that difficult to accept advice be aware that today, right now someone you know resents you or something you did, is jealous of you or wants something you have and most likely you are totally unaware of it. Today they may tell stories behind your back to harm you but after SHTF they can use any trust you might give them to take from you and they will actively and clandestinely work against you.

    Post SHTF will be dangerous and all the threats will not be frontal and obvious.

  12. A few ways the Golden Horde can find your retreat are; roads, rail, rivers, power lines, sound, and of course line of sight. Many of those can be avoided but not many people building retreats go without the power lines. I know if I see power lines running off into the woods somewhere with no nearby roads I’m going to assume there’s probably something of value at the end of those lines. Power companies so a good job of keeping the land near the power lines well groomed too for easy walking, horseback, dirt bike, or 4 wheeler.

    1. If SHTF real bad, I am taking out my mailbox and address number (fire#) posted on the road. You are right– people will look for home locations, and if I can convince my neighbor to take down his, it is just a forest service trail with no homes to be found along it.

  13. I’ve the misfortune of living 112 mile from New York city, an 119 miles from the city of Boston. Me and the in-laws realize making it to are land up north would be a difficult process to say the least. We discussed many scenarios and found many different routes to reach the land up north. But the same issue or concern we have is whether or not locals would allow out of town people to travel their roads unimpeded or local bandits raiding the out of town people as they travel on them. Only if I had a crystal ball…

    1. Sounds like you are in my neck of the woods Uncle B. My hope is that NY city people will hopefully head south, especially in the winter. I do worry about Boston though. The best we figure that we can do is hide, camouflage, and bury supplies. Then the whole house will go on a crash diet to lose weight and hopefully look like the rest of the sheeple. If people come looking for food, we will tell them that any day now the government will come with food and save us, and that we just have to hang on a little longer. Deception may be our only hope. If people think we are in the same boat as them, they will look elsewhere.

      1. You should go on that diet now, not when the SHTF. But save all your clothes — the ones that will be too big for you when you lose weight.
        Or buy some old clothes at a garage sale now that are two sizes too big.

    2. Anybody in your group know how to fly a small plane? You could possibly fly over the towns and land near your B.O. location.

      1. Or a canoe. Many places have water courses that would allow you to travel with no roads into more remote locations. Having a location downstream would be better – let the water do the ‘paddling’ for you.

        Leaves no trail, water to purify, possible food sources. This has some possibilities. It’s probably safer than bugging out on foot any way. If you are on a coast or the Intracoastal, a sail boat could be an option as well.

  14. I live over 250 miles from largest city (pop 700,000) and 150 miles from another large city of 86,000. The further north you go to get to my area, less supplies and more sparse the population is where the national forest, state, public county and timber owned land spreads over the county all the way up to Canada.

    No one wants to come here after a major SHTF event nor do they want to. Desperate city sheeple would head towards closer populated areas where farms and homes dot the countryside for supplies, not the wilderness, and not where the temps are extreme in winter.

    Location does matter when SHTF is really bad. I am far away and in an undesirable location if it does happen. I am basically concerned for the neighboring people surrounding me who don’t prepare who are butt heads and depend on government, but most locals know how to fish these lakes and hunt. They will most likely have food, but being under this condition, they need to learn to conserve the natural resources and be taught different survival techniques in the long term as a community.

  15. My opinion is, if an event happens like an EMP, people will head to the rural areas knowing that is where farms are, thus food which they won’t be able to get in a store. They may hit places on the way as they deem necessary for survival but farms will be their goal.

    We all will need to worry about this but remember, real bad things can happen to them. Booby traps and alarm type systems are the best defense. Rings of protection to slow them down, make them think that it might not be a good idea to proceed in your direction that they might be killed if they continue would be the best defense. But people will become animals when they are hungry. Moral of the story, if an event happens, arm and prepare your defense systems.

  16. Another thing to consider in a SHTF event. UPS, FedEx, and USPS. Even if you can stay hidden from the Golden Horde, these guys still know where you are. And I bet some of them take note of certain company names like Berkey, Auguson Farms, Mountain House, and stuff like that. I just hope the drivers that deliver up to my brothers house aren’t note takers.

    1. If they know those names they’re probably preparing for themselves on some level. Those aren’t precisely well known by the common horde.

      1. Exactly my point. And not all preppers are social and cooperative. Some will not hesitate to attack and take from other preppers. Some may even pretend to be friends just to put themselves in a better position when the time comes. Unmarked boxes are the best option. Another option is to place the order through a third party company instead of the name brand company that way the shipping label gives less of a clue as to what is inside the package.

    2. I ordered from one company that gave you the option of having your order shipped in unmarked boxes. I always took that option.

    3. That’s why you use UPS/FedEx stores to receive your supplies. Then they don’t find out where you live.

  17. Numerous variables come in to play on how far city folks will travel. Some issues such as type of event, weather ( I.e, sub zero temperatures), resources available (such as water) become factors that may limit travel and give rural preppers additional time to prepare for potential onslaught.

    If you live along line of communication….roads, railroads, rivers, etc., you can expect visitors who are in halfway decent shape or just have the drive, will and fortitude to survive. An overweight out of shape non-prepper type who has no survival skills will not be your problem, but those with street sense and the will to live at any expense will be your problem.

  18. For those with reliable transportation 50 miles is less than an hour away. Considering packed roads (and how most people run half empty), a half tank of gas might take a person anywhere from 150 to 300 miles from home before they have to use shanks ponies.

    We know from experience that people will stay with their cars for upwards of 12 hours rather than use their feet. Those with no reliable transportation will start out on foot and (depending on how out of shape they are) reach an area fifty miles away within a week. In that period the ranks would have thinned considerably as people drop from exhaustion, are killed, etc.

    With those things taken into consideration the 50 to 100 mile area might be the safest, as it will be around 100 to 150 miles from the cities before people begin to abandon their cars.

    1. Of course, a bullet in the radiator or caltrops left on the road will stop them real quick.

      1. So a snowplow and run flat tires would be extremely useful on the bugout vehicle. I remember an old movie in which the guy cheated in a smash up derby by filling his tires with rolled up news paper before inflating. Cheap run flats!!! Lol? I think the movie was the original vanishing point.

    2. Lauren, great point, I have thought of this a lot too. I know a LOT of people who run their vehicles close to “fumes” all year long. Add low amounts of fuel in a tank with major traffic gridlock and lots of folks could end up stranded on the roads, furthering the gridlock for an undetermined amount of time. I just think of how much a vehicle on a shoulder can mess up traffic, and not just from rubbernecking (gawking), either.

      Everyone: What about bridges being the main connections between rural and a metropolis? There are three that I can think of that are remotely close to the metropolis, heading toward rural. Seeing as how these bridges can get quite congested in a typical rush hour, I am not sure whether or not to feel comfort that folks might not even make it over the bridges due to blockages, traffic back-ups, etc. Please share your thoughts – I am curious!

  19. It doesn’t matter where you live people will find you. The more remote the better chance you have but sooner or later you will have to fight to protect your family and property.

    Be the gray man, stay out of sight, and keep your mouth shut about your preps. I live in the south and a lot of people here have been putting up food, guns and ammo for years. I live 15 miles from a city of 70 thousand and 6 miles from a town of 20 thousand and I don’t fell like I stand a chance if SHTF. But I will go down fighting.

  20. The Very 1st Thing I would suggest people do, no matter where you live, is to post your property with signs stating: ” ATTENTION! DO NOT ENTER THIS PROPERTY. TRESPASSERS WILL BE SHOT ON SIGHT”. This is what I will do.

    1. I like my idea better. I have quarantine and biohazard signs in English and Spanish that I plan to post on the front and back of my property.

      1. @ DaisyK, I have those as well. From Biohazard to Ebola. We will determine the best signs to use at that time when we deem it necessary.

        1. Hey Chief, Daisy and Peanut,

          I mean no disrespect but but if your first thought is to post signs. Then you have just announced to anyone who has common sense that there is a reason why those signs are posted.

          For one thing if you post brand new signs then they are exactly that. Brand new signs which says someone is close by and has something I may want. Bio hazard signs don’t really mean much those with common sense say I need to watch this area and see my opportunity.

          Signs may stop the family of 4 with a wife and 2 kids and maybe some of the ignorant sheep and thugs. But if I was travelling with my family and desperate I would look at those signs as a opportunity. I would wait and watch knowing someone has something they want to protect.

          Same goes with any organized gang or group. Signs won’t stop them just give them a heads up.

          You are better off trying to be invisible and setting up early warning alerts and booby traps. Make the pain they encounter make them not want to not venture more and have them retreat and look for a easier target.

          Just my 2cents.

          Adapt and Overcome.

          1. 11HE9, I totally agree with your statement. They would just have told the people they were there, had at least one gun and something to defend. I do on the other hand have a nice sign that says YOU ARE NOW IN RANGE. Lol

          2. Hey, if you have a neighbor you don’t trust, or like, you could put the sign in his yard and maybe get 2 birds with 1 stone. Lol?

          3. I agree about early warning.

            The rotties and pit bull are out loose all night and six terriers out most of the day. So nothing moving will go undetected. Have a long driveway. Dogs are a wonderful deterrent especially the big aggressive breeds.

            Of course, there is a safety factor with training and trusting these dogs. But it takes knowledge and management. But with them all here anyone wanting to start down the driveway way may stop and find an easier and safer place to be. Sjp

          4. Dogs are great alerters, down side the eat, drink water, and unless fully trained will give up your position. Not to sound mean but realistic,dogs can be easily defeated by poisoned meat or shot. I have dogs myself but know the limitations as a guard/attack dog trainer in my youth. A suppressed 22 in the head is all that’s needed that’s how the have killed cows in the past. Now they just use compressed air and a rod.

          5. I agree that dogs can easily be defeated by bullets and other methods.

            However I consider my dogs an essential part of our preps. They alert to intruders before I have a clue of anyone approaching, and they protect our livestock and poultry from the usual varmints like possum and coons. Also, they are darn good company.

  21. I live in a town of about 1000 people, 8 miles from a town of 8000 people. Dallas is 250 miles away and little rock is 200. I don’t live on a major artery so I’m hoping we won’t see many wandering hungry folks in this town. I think the quarantine signs are a great idea!

    1. I also have some stink bombs–maybe they’ll think someone died. Also 2 guns, pepper spray, a 6 foot fence and a dog. If that’s not enough, then I guess I am done.

    2. I have my entire property fenced with signs every ten feet saying alternately, beware of do, or no trespassing. If someone is inside my fence during a situation WROL, I’d rather not say what my plan is, but rest assured, all my trees are also yardage markers.

  22. On 9/11 in NYC the Bridges & Tunnels were shutdown after the attack. Expect the same to happen in NYC again, as well as in NJ. Everything will be shutdown in a grid using the Interstates and major RT’s as the dividing lines.

    The govt. has containment plans in case of a major event. Their plan is to grid out and isolate everyone in their grid. Thus preventing mass chaos in the non-affected areas. The NG, SP and local LE will be patrolling the dividing roads. Bottom line, you will be stuck in your grid zone until you are TOLD to leave. You will get a free trip on the FEMA bus to a safe area…

    Ever see the blue FEMA signs with the arrow evacuation route….????
    They are out there, you probably haven’t noticed them…..

    1. People should remember that the interstates were initially built primarily FOR the military to be used to move personnel and equipment during the next full scale war.

      So rather than getting bent out of shape when they get shut down during an event, think of it more as being “allowed” to use them while there are no current ongoing events. In other words, familiarize yourself now with all the back roads and side streets while it’s still convenient to do so.

  23. Bicycles will get you many miles in one day.
    There are millions of bicycles out there.
    In my country more bicycles are sold every year than automobiles.

    1. Yes, bicycles are part of our plan. I really don’t intend on leaving the homestead, But if we do, the bikes are going with us.

  24. Learn how to construct an abatis. You basically drop trees across each other to block likely avenues of approach such as roads and trails to stop or delay vehicles.

    When constructing them pick an area where you have a road junction they will approach to give them an “alternate” path to take away from your area. For trails where dismounted personnel may approach buy treble hooks and place them waist high from branches with “spyder wire” fishing line at least 30 pound test. Channel the raiders with underbrush obstacles, barbed wire, logs, etc into the treble hooks.

    It’s essential to have a group of your neighbors working together to survive a SHTF event even if you need to supplement their diet. You will need to establish LP/OP’s for early warnings and these will need to be manned 24/7. Start drawing sector sketches now and use a range finder to determine known distances to likely avenues of approach and dead spaces.

    Dead spaces can be denied with “punji” stakes, blackberry plants, or both. Ideally you can deploy sniper teams where the greatest potential threat will come from. These suggestions are for SHTF and shouldn’t be deployed until the time comes. Infantry manuals are available for download online for free and will give you additional info such as constructing a fighting position with overhead cover, setting in defensive positions, etc. bottom line: you determine where the threat comes from, not the raiders.

    1. Agreed. Our property was purchased for the ability to control access. A woods to the south allows trees across the road. There are many bridges that make good choke points and can be controlled.

  25. I live just off a major Interstate. We have a mere two exits to this little town of 7k. We have talked many, many times about the interstate, and how many travelers there are on it.

    Winter – isn’t too much of a worry. Its too cold and dark to trek out at night on foot… and If they trek during the day, well, they would most likely stop at all the little stores along the way before hitting the actual town. Our town “appears” to be poor. That is our accidental, non planned benefit if you ask me.

    I would gamble that every household has at least one firearm. Someone in every family hunts, is in the military, or in law enforcement of some kind. (forestry, domestic relations, parole officers etc).

    If I were stuck in the middle of nowhere along a dark highway… I would stay with my car until day light – hit the nearest store, attempt to stock up on what ever I could carry, and do my best to get back to my family… unless I were fleeing my town. Then, I would be trying to get to the nearest school where they always put up shelters, like the red cross… IF I were a sheep.

    If I were not a sheep, and stuck along the highway…. in the dark, I’d trek home with my EDC and my GHB as fast as I could. I would avoid major roads, keep hunkered down, walk swiftly packing my heat and listening for any and every threatening noise. I have enough in my GHB and my EDC to protect myself for three days… I guess, its the reverse setup of a BOB… haha…

    I do need to look into a something ‘er nother with wheels… maybe one of those little teeny kid scooters with those teeny little wheels… That packs well in a trunk, it comes apart easily, its light, and it holds 150+ pounds… They are cheap, and sometimes free… when the neighbor kid out grows it. (Or the parents THINK the kid outgrows it – only to buy them a new one in the spring.) One mans garbage — Is another’s treasure.

    We should all have a Get Home Plan — you just never know.

  26. Well, we live exactly 57 miles from NYC and 57 miles from Philadelphia; we are in Mercer County NJ. All I can say is, God help us! LOL! The plan is to relocate to the Greenville SC area in 3 years.

    However, if the SHTF before then we will do our best here. We have relatives in rural PA, rural GA and SC though if we need to get out quickly and go somewhere. The good thing about where we are now is that we are surrounded by farms and woods. Our actual town has about 5,500 people. But although it seems like we are in the country we are not far at all from hell lol!

  27. Ken, I live in a town of 6000+, but plan to “Bug In” as long as possible. I know my neighbors, they are not even thinking about this stuff!

    But,I am realistic, we have an alternative site 50 miles away with a population of 415. I only know a couple families who are preparing or are prepared at that location. What does this say about the preparation of the American people?

    In a locale with few people, you still have to contend with those that are unprepared. Do you feed them & put them to work? There is no place that most are prepared.

  28. Ken:

    I have to say that the comments of some of these people here astound me, as to answers as what they would do when faced with ‘raiders’. And that’s what they will be,’Raiders’.

    Thinking that dogs, health warning signs, pepper spray, etc., will be effective. They are going to be facing people who will stop at nothing, and I mean NOTHING, to take what you have. Thinking you can outsmart them is a fatal error.

    Main Rule No.1: Never underestimate your enemy. Before turning your dogs loose, be sure to say your final Goodbye! And do you really want someone to come that close that you have to use Pepper Spray? And what do you do after you spray them? Ask them to leave? You must adopt the mind set that these people will kill you and yours to get what they want. If you’re not prepared, mentally and physically, to protect your life by taking theirs, you WILL NOT SURVIVE!

    I’m sure there are some combat veterans out there, who will tell you the same. Rule No.2: Never let them get close enough to harm you. Stop the threat early. When TSHTF, it’s time to adopt a survival mentality if you really WANT to survive!

    1. Totally agree. I am 95% immune to O.C. It just doesn’t work on everyone. Guess that’s why I like my food REALLY HOT!

      Nothing beats copper plated lead at supersonic speeds. My lane is exactly 300 yards. You have the first 150 to plead your case. After that, you are in the kill zone and the hidden assets will light you up.

      That is at the beginning of SHTF. As things progress, it will likely be that kill zones start several miles down the road. Anyone thinking they can fight using non-lethals is more than a fool. Tread within a mile of my place and you won’t know what hit you. My dogs warn me when you are more than a mile. Even on foot, they know when you are about 1/2 mile out.

      Within the first 24, we will be securing food/preps from facilities I oversee. I can probably secure another 10 months worth in an hours time. These are items that would be looted within a few days time. We are good for a year already. This would just be extra and worth a trip to town at the beginning of SHTF.

  29. We’ve been through several types of events where local services are off line for days and weeks. Something I’ve noticed is a small window of travel time after the events.

    In the first few hours you can move freely then the restrictions begin, usually law enforcement for 48 to 72 hrs. You can move around with limited movement.

    If the event goes into a week long with out services then it starts to have people involved in the security of the area trying to look out for their belongings. Once this starts the state usually calls in the guard. After the guard is called in you pretty much have to stay put or go where they take you. (not where they tell you.)

    So, in my findings of these events you usually have a 72hr window to decide to make your move to bug out. Afterwards, it’s not likely to go well if you have a long way to travel.

    Good luck to all who have to move to safer grounds. I choose to stand my ground and take the chances I know I’m surrounded by several large cities but I’m to the east with about a 30 mile plus barrier of rural terrain.

  30. I live a thousand miles from the nearest 1,000,000 city. I don’t feel all that safe. We will have marauders. Some folks here are real good hunters, well trained tactically and will do what is necessary to feed their families.

    Maybe the best place to be is where the golden horde is running from rather than where they are running to. Look at coyotes and deer that thrive near high-density populations. It can be done you just need to be good at it and ready for it. Sometimes the best place to hide is in a crowd. It could be an advantage or disadvantage either way. There is more to it than just location.

    There are no sure things. No one can prep to a 100% standard. We can do the best we can with what we have to work with. We are all going to die even if the S don’t hit the fan. People get struck by lightning, bit by sharks, run over by idiots.

    The best of plans are all just a poke in the dark. No one can second-guess the future. We can gather food. We can be good neighbors and hope it comes back around. The moment the SHTF, by definition, no one is going to be able to control where it splatters. We will do the best by ours, and I wish you the best of luck with yours.

    I think the surprising thing will be the percentage of the population that will not go postal, the folks that will lend a hand and do the right thing even in the worst times. Look at this blog and the folks who share here. Be prepared for the worst but don’t be blinded by fear. Be ready to experience light in dark places and dark in light places. At least our times ain’t dull.

    Cheers

    1. I agree to an extent. If I am skilled, I am better off in a rural setting but have above average odds in the city. If I am unskilled, I am better off in a rural setting, but have no chance in the city.

  31. I like my odds where I am at. Northeast Indiana.

    I am about 20 miles from Fort Wayne, and 8 miles to a town of 9,000. We are way out on back roads with few houses around. The closest house is 3/4 mile away, and it is another 3/4 mile to the next one. Those who live near us don’t know about our preps, but they do know we are firearm enthusiasts. We are known as the noisy neighbors due to the large calibers and tanerite.

    My wife and I are leaders in the community and are well respected. Many people also talk about our shooting skills. We are known by many for our long distance accuracy. Given the ability to control hundreds of square miles of area with our control of bridges and natural choke points, we are really set up to bring a few people on board who have lots to offer. Our team is would be able to most of this alone, but if we can bring on the many surrounding us… the only thing I fear is an assault from our own .gov.

    1. My current set up is similar. Most of my neighbors are “gun enthusiast” too. We are not on any high volume traffic areas due to the numerous rivers. That means bridges and defendable choke points. Wouldn’t you know it my property is on the highest ground for 30 miles

  32. Wow, Mr. Rodgers meets ISIS, Pillsbury dough boy and war and peace all rolled into one. If alone, make some pies with a little surprise. Rat poison for the golden hoard and leave, bug-out for a couple of days. Then return to clean up the mess and don’t worry you don’t have to confess!!! Lol

  33. Heads up, there was a dam system hacked and also a power station. First reports say, one was caused by get this Iran!!! Nice I wonder how this administration feels about the deal now!!!

  34. If you live in America people will find you believe me, you only have enough ammo and food for a few months if it lasts, you may make it, but really would you want to live in that state for ever? Probably not.

    1. I respectfully disagree with that statement. Eventually the herd would die off and life would return to normal so to speak. Still conserving ammo would be advised!!!

      1. No need to conserve ammo. Buy what you need, use what you need. Let’s say you have a 22 rifle, an AR-15 in 223, a 12 gauge shotgun and a 9mm pistol.

        2,000 rounds of 22LR costs about $100 (Wal Mart has 1,000 bricks for $51)
        1,000 rounds 223 costs about $250
        500 rounds of 12 gauge costs about $160
        2,000 rounds 9mm costs about $400 (9mm in all brass is under $10 for a box of 50 at Wal Mart)

        Total cost about $900. About $500 if you reload. Buy a little at a time over a year or two and you’re set.

  35. Depending on the SHTF event, the mortality rate of the unprepared general population could conceivably be in excess of 25% in the short term. With 250,000 deaths and if the infrastructure fails disease would skyrocket the mortality rate!

    The populations first instinct would be to head for the country “where the food is” abandoning the city… Perhaps the best place to be, would be the industrial area around a largish city… Plenty of resources in those warehouses and factories… Maybe shelter in place on your own supplies for 90-120 days, recon the population, have a plan and work the plan…

  36. For the special “golden horde” being invited by the almighty on the east coast, well, how about a few oinky oinky piggies letting them roam around the property….just think, that is bacon in the not yet ready to eat stage, and some “people” hate bacon….

    Jokes aside, I am having a medieval style defense of the property because most marauders and thugs, the hordes, expect technology to protect your property….it is true if you make it too obvious that it is protected. The desperate will see this as an invitation, but that is just another risk factor to be calculated in….

    For me, 200 miles is too close. However, a location which is rugged and uphill, will stop most people from any attempts simply because they are out of shape, two, nothing to eat means no energy to get to a point, and most are weak willed….

    Would I help some, perhaps…However, after having been unemployed, I got the joy to experience how helpful people really are…I am being sarcastic here :) Most people I encountered, and no, I did not ask them for help, but they could see we are struggling, approached us with the idea of : I can provide help, but what is in it for me and when will you return to me the assistance, how soon and is it at equal or more value….

    Because of that, I rather go it alone with my kids. At least for a while ..We do have the needed skill set and training to get to a safe place and survive in the wilderness. Regardless of the material preparedness, the psychological and mental as well physical readiness, I know that much will require instant improvising with a final goal to get to safety.

    1. Grown pigs are MEAN! Best to have a “first defense” system you don’t mind losing, and if they take out the intruder so much the better.

      1. LOL, that is true Loren….they are mean…and so are cacti, porcupines, Pepe la Pew etc….:))) weight and motion sensors…flir cameras and the good old sound of cocking the gun….

  37. I believe that there is a normalcy bias that people believe that things will get back to normal when the government gets involved. By that time people will be, depending on the time of year, forced to stay where they live because it’s to hot or cold or fear of the unknown.

    The only real way you are going to undig these ticks is with force, people coming in and making the indigenous folks make a choice, die or flee, some will choose death. By the time they are faced with this decision, they will be too weak, tired or ill prepared to make a 50 mile journey and then easy pickings for those who saw this coming.

  38. You don’t have to be a world class athlete to outrun the bear in the woods. You just have to be faster than the guy next to you. No distance is safe. You just don’t present a soft target and let the hoards go onto softer targets. Darwin will take over at that point. The farther you are out though the harder and more determined wolf is what you will be facing as the weak and foolish will have been weeded out. To every thing there is a season a time to hide, a time to run, and a time to fight.

  39. Hi!
    I read all of the preceding comments. Two most likely causes are financial collapse or nuclear war with Russia/China. Nuclear war will come regardless! So, what will be prime targets? Military bases/assets and large population densities. Maybe some key infrastructure like dams and big power plants or industrial centers. Most important prep for Nuclear War is a big supply of very good dust masks to keep radio nucleotides (radio active isotopes with long half lives) out of your lungs, especially for young people. There won’t be any golden horde to invade the countryside. Plenty of supplies will be available to the remaining population, in the bombed out cities of over 1 million. Of course all of the other preps you make are not wasted especially in motivating the acquisition of skills and awareness. WARS always follow or accompany financial collapse. Why would Russia NOT use nuclear weapons in a fight with the USA. Obama has already declared that the USA will NOT respond to a Nuclear attack and will just ride it out. Easy for him, maybe not so easy for the rest of us though.

    1. @ AlternateReality

      — “Obama has already declared that the USA will NOT respond to a Nuclear attack and will just ride it out” — HAHAHAHA, please ohhhh please do NOT tell me you believe his lies…..

  40. I think it really depends on the event. If there is a mass destruction event, there is mass panic and shock. This leads to less-than-level-headed behavior. In the immediate vicinity of the destruction there will be enough panic and mayhem that will slow any movement of people. A migration of sorts, as is being inferred here, generally takes a group of people who are desperate, but ‘thinking’. Leaving one’s home with no hope in sight it a last resort. I also don’t think it will look like a biblical exodus with 1 million well-behaved people loaded with supplies heading off to the promise land. It would be haphazard, disorganized, panic driven desperation.

    Depending on the time of year and other factors that affect life and mobility, like are you living off a major highway, are there cars on the road, etc, 50 miles is definitely a possibility for those who might try to migrate out. However, I don’t think most people could move more than a few miles per day. There is only so far you can walk without access to food, water. shelter and Rx drugs.

    So to answer your question, yes it is probable but you’ll probably have days of lead time if you are worried.

    1. I hate to be such a pessimist but when someone says “depends on the event” they may be missing that it may be a series of catastrophes. And there is no ultimate safety or location. Do the best one can, trust in the Lord, and be ready to meet him.

      I live in the desert thirty miles south of Phoenix. Most of the evacuations will be to the North and most of the rest will be along the interstates. To get to my home one has to go a few miles out of the way North after going many miles South.

      There are about eighty homes in our subdivision. One of my preps is water filled, used 1.75 Liter plastic bottles. If any of my unprepared neighbors need to find water in the nearest town, I will give them a few filled bottles to evacuate. If they get to relief all the better. If not, they at least get far enough away not to covet my stuff.

  41. My wife and I already moved once in the past 10 years due to an economic tsunami of 2008. The place we moved to is relatively close to a large North American City that has at least 1 active volcano within it’s city limits. (Portland, OR)

    What you prepare for will depend on where you live. My area will be the mega quake that drops the many bridges that transect our metro area and state. ( many of the bridges cross wetlands, rivers and bodies of water. ) In California, most of the state was dry enough that earthmoving equipment and signs could get the damaged roadways passable within hours because it was drier.

    I live in a small town several hours away from the Portland, OR metro area. It looks like Los Angeles with rain. The many bridges throughout the city convinced me to not live within the city of Portland. If the bridges go down, you are trapped for a very long time. Bridges over spans of water may take a long time to fix or replace.

    As is, I have to cross at least 1 bridge on my way into work each day. I know of at least 1 route that will bypass all bridges though it almost doubles the drive time.

  42. Most of the people responding to this site commented on home defense issues for their bug-in locations. Here are a few ideas from the wonderful world of chemistry:

    I would like to add Petrol Bombs to most people’s ideas of armaments and deterents to coming over to my place for dinner. My dog is cute but honestly all she does is make noise. Seeing the ringleader running away engulfed in flames could change people’s minds about following his actions. (maybe we best be moving on now.)

    Bear spray is cheaper than self defense spray and in case you wondered what some did before OC spray was invented, one old lady in an inner city defended herself by spraying Oven Cleaner (lye) into the eyes of her attacker.

    Encourage the growth of the wasp and yellowjacket nests around the perimeter of your property. Spraying people with water can take on a whole new meaning when the temperature is 40 degrees or colder. And lastly, have a few guns and lots of ammo around your house like all the others stated already.

    I do have a sign. It is inside my house right now. It says: “Trespassers will be shot. All others will be violated” Times are peaceful enough i have not yet posted it outside. (I still like the Girl Scouts to deliver cookies.)

    If we don’t kill you outright, you will be cold and wet or burnt and naked with wasp stings to boot. So much more imaginative than using high velocity lead therapy. It makes going somewhere else a lot more attractive.

  43. Hours after certain shtf outbreaks happen..the Govt. starts locking down the cities. This may take days, but most of the people in the cities will wait to be told what to do. The percentage of prepper in large metropolitain cities are relatively small..I think at first only a small group from any cities or large towns close to the country will leave right away. After that small window of opportunity is over..the cities become large fema camps locked down. The Govt. wont let the people leave because it’s easier to contain the masses than to give them a chance to fight back. My point is..the few people one might have to defend their lives and supplies from, will be small compared to the G men trying to round everybody up. The G men know everything about us. They have been collecting this data for most of our lives. Why do you think they always say to have 3 days worth of supplies, and shelter in place? That gives them 3 or so days to come and get you.

  44. 200 miles from the Boston area, about 4.5Million. I just hope that in any SHTF that’s far enough and the folks down south blow the bridges!

  45. This is going to be the most un PC comment you will read today.

    I live within 10 miles of a large African American population of 300K persons. While we are semi rural where do you think the Golden Horde will migrate to after their food and alcohol are exhausted? Yep, they’ll walk their unhappy asses here in search of where they think food and drink are available. Not just the minorities but anyone who thinks we country bumpkins have resources.

    Got news for ya. We are heavily armed and will stand.

    My neighbor and my best friend will defend our life, liberty and happiness for our kids and each other. We do have contingency plans as well.

    Hopefully, when SHTF it will be deep winter which should discourage most people from a large urban area and if not, well, I reckon we’ll deal with the situation as it comes at us.

    Crazy Prepper? Maybe.

    Best,

    Snake Plisken

  46. Major cities will be locked down.The sheep will stay in place as directed.(Boston was a beta test after the marathon bombing). I suspect you will have 2-12 hours to get out.Don’t wait.Be ready to leave at a moments notice.Find a back way out. roads even out of cities will be full.
    I was told plans have been in place since the 90’s to blow bridges,tunnels if need be so the masses can be contained in all large cities.
    understand that “no one will know till everyone knows.”
    Organized criminals will fill the vacuum created in the cities.
    I am more concerned with medium sized towns. they are more apt to migrate in search of safe havens and supplies.They most likely will have less restrictions on travel at least in the beginning.Most law Abiding Americans will listen to Authorities and behave as directed.That’s what they are counting on.The only way this changes is if something sudden and unexpected occurs. EMP, Big Earthquake, super storm/storms.All of those scenarios carry a potential for great loss of life.
    Small communities will come together out of necessity.That’s why it’s important to be involved locally so you will have an insight of what to expect.Local police chief/Sheriff will be handling security most likely.Your mayor/town council will be the “Gov.” trying to keep water/electricity flowing.Power struggles will come to light.Meanwhile the local organized criminals will be out stealing trucks/supplies from neighboring areas.They will be running the black market for sure.They already are.Ironically,they will be instrumental in getting much needed supplies/medicine.
    Any outsiders who are thieving will most likely be shot dead or hanged and left displayed as an example to others.Due process will be quick and final.
    Trying to go it alone will be extremely difficult.Good people will come together.bad people will have have their lives shortened.
    Not pleasant to think about but these type of things have happened thruout recent History in one form or another.

  47. The interesting thing about the comments are the amount of contributors who believe the “government will lock down the cities and patrol, etc.” Do not forget what happened in NOLA in August, 2005. The cops went home, the sheeple believed the mayor and the governor, and chaos ensued. Now keep in mind this was ONE major Amerikan city.
    Let’s say, for example, there is a nation-wide “disaster” or “economic correction” on a scale that influences cops and other First Responders to look after their families/themselves first, before they risk their lives defending the local Safeway or Bank of America. What happens then? Well, any metro area with a large, organized gang population will fill the power vacuum. Your uniform will be your skin color and you best be hanging out in a protected area with your own co-ethnics.
    Google the results of the Yugoslavian break-up in the ’90’s. Get a hold of the seminal work titiled: A FAILURE OF CIVILITY. Then, for your own sake and the sake of your tribe and loved ones, plan accordingly.

  48. Yeah dweezle..the first responders call it quits..but the military will just be getting started. I say they lock down the cities quick. After 3 days or so, what few people did prepare for a short term emergency, will be out of luck. Most are only a microwave bag of popcorn away from starving.

  49. I am fairly prepped compared to the average Joe but after reading some of these posts I am more worried about other preppers than the “Golden Horde”. Ive heard things like treble hook booby traps shoot anyone within one half mile of my property and so much worse..
    Most of these wild hordes you imagine are going to be starving half dead fellow citizens hoping for food clean water or just a safe place to sleep, many will already be robbed, raped, sick, tired and afraid, just hoping to find a christian or any decent human being. They will be your countrymen some conservative some welfare leaches every type imaginable. Many of you are the real threat the poor guy who was in the city when the SHTF who lives one county past you will have been burnt,shot, bit, wounded by punji sticks, caught by treble hooks, sprayed with bear spray, etc. etc. just for trying to cut cut through the woods to get home to his wife and babies, staying off those roads you guys swear are gonna be impassable. Dont you realize your booby trap will more likely kill the 12 year old girl trying not to be raped again that day by staying in the woods or the orphan pickin up bugs and nuts to eat than the bad guy from walking dead.
    Stop watching stupid sci-fi mad max zombie crap and think. Yes be armed, yes be prepared, be ready to be part of the solution not part of the problem. Also remember when you shoot the dreaded tresspasser crossing your pasture or coming to your door to beg for a drink water for his baby, someone will probably witness the murder you commited and when calm is restored you will be prosecuted even if it takes years. And millions of real PATRIOTS will cheer every time the gallows drops someone who killed and maimed our countymen out of cowardice during our nations darkest hour.
    Prepare to be part of the solution not the biggest part of the problem

    1. Yes they may be your countrymen just looking for a meal but each meal given to them is one you cannot give your family. They had the SAME chance you did to prep, maybe on a smaller level but had it they did. Now that the SHTF you owe it to your family first……

      Let’s see…canned goods are good for 2 yrs or so and all it takes is buying an extra case or so of beans every month and a few extra bags of rice, soup etc and stockpiling that away and then eating the oldest every so often and replenishing with new at the same time. Over a year or two you have several months of food. If you didn’t do this when you had the chance then you have no right going to others taking their food…. harsh but it’s fair and more that, it’s reality.

  50. WE LEAD BY EXAMPLE.
    What kind of example do you want to put out there for your family, friends and community? I am a believer in self reliance. I learn everything I can and pass this knowledge on. I will defend myself and my own, but where do you draw the line on humanity? If and when all hell breaks loose, we all need to do some serious soul searching.

    1. Amen we need a reality check. A disaster on the scale we are contemplating would probably be remembered by history one of these two ways.

      1. In our nations darkest hour unprepared millions fled to the countryside where they were slaughtered or left to die on the roads denied access to water or even to walk safely through privately held property. By allegedly Christian Patriots, when order was restored it was obvious to all that gun ownership, conservatism, and Christianity and privately owned water resources should be abolished.

      2. In our nations darkest hour unprepared millions, (largely liberal and secular), fled into the countryside. Thanks to many thousand of prepared self reliant patriots (largely Christian Conservatives) countless lives were saved. Those who could provided makeshift shelter, and taught them how to survive, putting many to work on farms and ranches. Many millions were converted to true Christianity when they discovered this was all done in the name of Jesus Christ, his followers
      were commanded to show them love and compassion
      Thanks to well armed patriots, many rural areas were safe havens where criminal activity wasn’t tolerated, locals banded together to restore and maintain security, while the inner cities became slaughter houses for the unarmed and unprepared.

      This single event in American history ended once and for all the rise of liberalism, gun control and the persecution of Christians. Our great Nation was restored to its original principals thanks to the generous sacrifice, and incredible efforts of that small group of brave, patriots wise enough to prepare who by their example led this nation back to greatness!

      THE CHOICE IS OURS PREPARE TO BE PART OF THE SOLUTION, OR BE PART OF THE PROBLEM.

      1. Then of course there is always “door number three”.

        3. In our nations darkest hour unprepared millions were forced to the countryside where they were slaughtered or left to die on the roads denied access to government salvation or reasonable help, resulting from what basically was brought on by said government and it’s demanding control of the people. (insert your own EOTWAWKI here) Not wanting to be forced into FEMA slave camps or die in the cities from Nazi style death camps because of the actions of DHS, NSA, FEMA, and .gov the masses turned to the rural areas to forcibly overtake what they imagined the very few prepared will willingly give the millions upon millions of invaders/refugees. All suffered the results of the unprepared sheeple. With the migration the sheeple also brought the .gov to those that had prepared and hence destroyed the only chances of rebuilding after the slaughter of anyone in opposition to the “new order government”, all/anyone/everyone including the sheeple seeking help and those prepared were eliminated. The “well armed preppers” were no match for the government that orchestrated the slaughter of all those opposed. Seeing this God called quietly to those that could be saved, laid his arm around his son, turned and walked away from what was once a hopeful world to find a new beginning on another world, another place, another time, leaving the people of Earth to suffer their own decisions, their own fate, their own hell.

        This single event in America/World history ended once and for all any hope for the world we once called Earth, the poisoned foods crops, farmlands, and waterways/oceans from chemical, biological and radiation would no longer feed the world’s starving people, water would no longer be drinkable, the nuclear winter would last for millennium, the loss of life, total. The Earth becoming a dead rock never to hold life again.

        The choice is ours to prepare, to survive as we will, to also die when the time comes, as we all will.

        Just a different point of view. Not saying right or wrong, just different.
        NRP

        1. Valid point, nothing saying it would end well for anyone. Personally I am Christian and am familiar with the back of the book, that said in IMHO, things will get very bad before Christ returns. The powers that are running this world will almost achieve total victory. This is another reason I personally would rather retain my humanity and do good as best I can based on ability and circumstance. No doubt there would be some level of risk with every encounter with desperate people. Surely there would be very tough calls to make. Hard times call for hard choices.
          I would indeed defend whats mine, but my faith and obedience to Christ will have to guide my decisions. After all “What profit it a man, if he gain the world and lose his soul”
          Personally I think the whole thing ends with a lot of whimpering and a long slow downward spiral rather than any large game changing event. One small comment to get back on thread. Too far away (from city) then we dont have others to trade with or create viable defense. Too close we run the risk of being completely overwhelmed. How close is too close? tough call.

      2. Hey Robstop….. you sound like an ultra liberal when you said “or prepare to be part of the problem”…. Only a libtard would suggest that when I look after my family first that you suggest that I am somehow part of the problem.

        Reality check” EVERY PERSON knows this could happen and EVERY PERSON has the opportunity to prepare so when they fail to do so please don’t suggest I am part of the problem if I choose to give my food to my family. I think you should lead by example: take your stocks you have saved and immediately divide them up between yourself and a thousand other people. Then get back to us.

  51. Hurrah, for Robstop! Like him, i was beginning to think that the most dangerous people around after a major event are the preppers! Anyone who would even consider shooting or harming a fellow human being a mile off is off their rocker. It’s unreasonable to assume that everyone will become raging monsters who will stop at nothing to get what you’ve got. Desperation may lead some to theft but won’t turn everyone into ruthless killers. It seems, however, that fear alone will turn you into one, and that rather instantly. Will you really allow your fear of anarchy to make you the worst anarchist? Will you not assess a threat before eliminating it? There ARE people who would rather die than become what you are so afraid of. Remember this, please: no matter what happens, God is still Sovereign. And you are not. You will sooner or later answer to rule of law. And you will certainly give an account to Him, the righteous judge.
    I love the model of civility and generosity that Rob proposes. Every Christian needs to consider how God would have them help their fellow man. And safety truly is in numbers working together. Each man for himself has never been a successful building block for any endeavor.

  52. I live about 14 miles from cinn o.h. in K.Y. off a U.S. H.Y. on to a state road then on to county road that dead end. the last 4 miles is a 1 lane road I pick this place with this in mind. the road can be block with a tree an there are 2 big one right there. but i just don’t see a lot of people come this way. from cinn O.H.if you look at a map I75 goes north an south I71 the same just north about 55 miles from the river you have I70 going east an west. now if you look at that map Walton K.Y. were I75 an I71 run together it is one city after city all the way north on I75 to M.I. that about 260 miles that a lot of people.an if you look at a map of the U.S. were are you going to live east of I35 were you wont have the same .look at that map in M.N. I35 south out of Deluth the twin city then Davn port I.A next st Louis M.O. now down to wichtall fall K.S. now Dallas an not last houtson T.X. an it not 500 miles from one to the next. now out west yes you can find some place that are 500 miles a part but do you want to live there now. I belive you can find a place in the east if you look hard for a place that out of the way.

    1. @ CITY
      “but do you want to live there now”

      Actually YES, I live in the Four Corners, I did “east” for 16 years, not bad, but not for me, Also did San Diego for 10 years… YUCHO….. Home is where the Heart is.
      NRP

  53. Everybody keeps saying they could walk 50, 100 or 200 miles if they had to for food and water……..hmm ok. I’ve got news for you – if it’s been days since you eat or drink anything your not walking anywhere. I’ve been there I know. Go 3 days with no water whatsoever and you can’t even see clearly, your so dizzy you can barely stand up let alone walk miles with a big pack. Go 4 or 5 days with no food and your so weak the only thing you can do is lay down and sleep. Your mind is cloudy, your confused, the smallest task exhausts you. Most people will be so thirsty and dehydrated they will drink the first source of water they come to, which will probably be dirty, full of bacteria and crytosparidium, so then a few hours later they will be puking their insides out from stomach viruses which will in turn make them weaker than they were before they drink it and it’s over. They’re not walking anywhere. People need to worry a lot more about their neighbors and not about some gang walking across the country.

  54. Thank God for Robstop. I’m a concerned prepared citizen who is concerned of a shtf scenario, however I’m also a nurse. In the event of catastrophe some “clanish” behaviour well be necessary but so will some amount of giving. Even if it’s just a drink of water and a map to somewhere else. Robstop you’re right on in those scenarios. To nrp you live in a greater country than you think because they allow you to post your distorted view if they were really as all powerful and evil I’m sure you’d be the first anarchist on the list. Hopefully there’s more first responders and medical personal our there who are prepared enough like myself so we can devote are time doing our jobs (helping people) than just trying to survive.

  55. I live with I-10 right behind my house. I live in the pandhandle of Florida with I-10 in my backyard (literally, less than 100 ft from my fenceline. We used to have trees, they knocked them down and we now have sound barriers which are 14 foot walls and actually two layers of them, but I have an overpass that can see into my backyard and homeless already occupy underneath the overpass as the construction workers building the wall informed me of their mattresses being discovered as they prepped the dirt. We can’t sell right now. I have the I-10 bridge that was destroyed during katrina about 2 miles from my house so I am also as close to the shoreline of the bay. This makes me nervous, but also seems an opportunistic location. Thoughts? I am new to this so don’t rip me to shreds. lol

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