Dennis Tueller, a now retired Salt Lake City police officer, had asked the question “At what distance is an impact weapon an imminent threat?” Is it five or ten feet? Fifteen feet? More?
In other words, at what distance will someone handling a baseball bat or a knife (for example) become a potential threat to you?
Tueller, also a firearms instructor, proceeded to run a lot of drills on this subject – to determine how long it takes to get one’s pistol out of a holster and engage a threat with center-mass hits versus the time it takes for an imminent threat with an impact weapon to get to you.
If you are someone who may carry a handgun, YOU NEED TO KNOW ABOUT THIS for your own legal defense should you ever be involved in a self defense shooting. Here’s why…
The fact is, if you did not know about the ‘Tueller distance’ prior to a self defense shooting, the use of this aspect of your defense will NOT be admissible in court. In fact, if you did know about it, you will likely need to prove that you knew about it (I’ll explain later).
Why is it important to be able to cite this as part of your defense? Because depending on the incident it may help prove that there was ‘imminence’ and an imminent threat to your life (assuming there really was an imminent threat) which will be one part of your overall defense strategy.
The approximate time to engage with a handgun
Tueller discovered that most police officers are able to get their pistol out of their holster and engage within 1.5 seconds.
The approximate distance of an imminent threat with an impact weapon
Tueller also drilled the distance at which a person can run from a standing start for 1.5 seconds to be about 21 feet.
21 feet became the ‘Tueller distance’ – the approximate maximum distance from a police officer that a person can use a knife (or other impact weapon) against that officer before the officer can shoot them.
Note: If the threat has a gun, then the Tueller distance does not apply, because the threat can shoot you from a much further distance!
Of course there is MUCH, MUCH MORE to a valid self defense shooting, and more importantly a self defense shooting that you can survive through the legal system, however that is not the focus of this article (there will be more subsequent articles).
The ‘Tueller distance’ also known as the ’21 foot rule’, is well cited in case law and is an important distinction to understand and to integrate into one’s defense (and prior actions!).
While you will have first needed to prove that you were an innocent party to the confrontation (e.g. that you were not the aggressor or escalated the confrontation), the next aspect of your defense will be proving there was an imminent threat. If that threat did not have a gun (instead an ‘impact weapon’), it will be exceedingly important to be able to cite the Tueller distance, or 21-foot-rule, and to have previously acted in accordance with that rule as part of your defense.
In other words, if you shot someone who you believed to be a threat to your life who had an ‘impact weapon’ from 40 feet away, it will be much, much more difficult if not impossible to prove imminence in court. If you cannot prove imminence, you lose.
On the other hand, if that same threat to your life was coming at you in the vicinity of approximately 21 feet or less, AND you were able to cite the ‘Tueller distance’ as prior knowledge in your defense, then the knowledge and facts of the ‘Tueller distance’ will very likely be admissible to the jury for them to understand and will greatly help your overall defense (although there is much more to your defense than just this).
Earlier I said that you might have to prove that you had prior knowledge of the Tueller distance (21-foot-rule). Yes, that will probably be required (you can’t say afterwards that you knew about it). So how can you prove it? And where have I received the information and knowledge that I wrote about in this article?
I HIGHLY RECOMMEND that anyone who ever carries a handgun should absolutely read and understand the information in the following book written by Attorney Andrew Branca, the internationally recognized expert on self-defense law (the best I’ve ever read on the subject),
The Law of Self Defense: The Indispensable Guide to the Armed Citizen
Attorney Branca advises that one way to prove that you knew about the Tueller distance is to print out the receipt, which includes the date, and tuck it in the book. Highlight the section within the book that talks about this and tuck it away (after reading it all and understanding the rest too!)
If you don’t want to spend the money to buy this book for your self defense strategy in the event of a self defense shooting, then find this information (the Tueller distance) somewhere else and similarly document that you read about it.
Since I was so impressed with the informative knowledge in this book, I will be doing a series of articles on this subject over time because I know that many of you ‘carry’, and you need to understand some of this very important subject matter.
I have read this information before, but I never thought about documenting that I’d read it. Maybe posting on this site would be proof enough in court? It would actually take me longer than 1.5 seconds to pull out my gun and shoot. You say above that that is the average time for a police officer–someone who wears his gun unhindered on his hip (which I don’t) and has practiced many, many more times than I have. That means that 21 feet isn’t really far enough away for me! (Yes, it also means that I should practice more.)
At a Tac-1 class I can draw and hit paper in under a second. My wife takes over 2 seconds. This is in a controlled environment with easy access to our firearms, not a real world situation. How much more time do you think would be added to a “imminent threat” situation? My opinion is that classes with a knowledgeable instructor is well worth the added cost over range time.
Post it on your social media, then it’s forever….
I can’t run and aim slower than molasses these days,
I can’t carry a firearm because of where I live, and even if I could I would go to prison if I shot an attacker.
Avoidance,
I avoid trouble or bad situations like the plague.
1. Stay away from crowds
2. Situational awareness
3. Awww hell, what the hell is wrong with our world now…people have gone mental.
I am so glad I read about the Tueller Distance. Very informative article. I never thought about how much time I had to protect myself before.
If I sense someone is a threat to me or mine I do not measure their distance; I start the trigger pull. After the trigger pull I leave the area as quickly as possible leaving no clue behind. If necessary I will let my lawyer deal with the jury. I prefer to deal with my lawyer rather than my doctor in such cases. After the event hopefully I have improved the human gene pool.
Texas false bravado + little common sense = very long prison sentence.
Not false bravado. I would also try to flee, as animals tend to run in packs, and the Just-Us system is going to try to crucify you anyway.
One more reason to keep a round chambered. IDF can draw from concealed, chamber, and hit target in 1.5 secs. Most of us are probably not quite that good.
If Zimmerman had been carrying without a round chambered, he would be dead now.
Zuck Fimmerman, a self appointed vigilante looking for trouble and found it, an asshole of the first order. What he did was murder and you can hear it on the audio tape. The only reason Zimmy got away with it is because he wasn’t black and yeah I said it. If Trayvon had lived they would have crucified him, when it was Zimmy who approached and assaulted him and then pulled out the gun. Justice is a hard thing to find these days.
Punk got what he deserved,,,
Justin,,,,go crawl back in a hole ,,,right on nailbanger
Trayvon was a very accomplished young man. He managed to get thrown out of a school system that prided itself in tolerating anti-social behavior from it’s students. A school that, on several occasions prior to his demise, reported drugs and stolen property found in his locker as “found property” to prevent his arrest. This program followed guidelines by Atty Gen Eric Holder whose goal was to reduce the disparity in disciplinary actions between white students and students of color. Instead, a 17 year old 6 foot + incorrigible monster was created, from a dis-functional family, that was destined for a violent end. He found it.
He (Trayvon) also left us with another accomplishment. A new race of villians, the white hispanic. When the liberal media, in it’s zeal to condemn the evil white man, realized Zimmerman identified with his mother’s hispanic heritage, boom, we now have the “white hispanic”. An effort they never took with our white African former president.
Racial hatred will eat you up son. Don’t be a victim of those who would divide us.
This is something that I always told my guys when I was still in the military. Whenever we drilled urban operations I always asked them why they let people get so close to them and then I told them about this rule. Glad to see that others understand the importance of this as well.
The problem is the defender has to be alert to the attacker PRIOR to them being in close proximity, where they are a dire threat. The defender may be aware of the attacker at a much greater, initial, distance. One does not need to wait until some specific distance before drawing their weapon, but only to shoot it, when the attacker does not obviously possess a firearm. Further, a skilled attacker will not let you see the knife, before you are cut, or stabbed. Since most of these shootings happen in low light conditions, the attacker may just appear to have made a fist, and you are not aware that a knife blade is concealed by his forearm.
What this also means is that a skilled attacker will wait until they are within striking range, before they even ACT as an attacker. Heck, I was trained to act in an absolutely passive, submissive, cowardly..if you will..manner, until the instant I killed the target.
An attacker coming at you from a dark door on a city street will be instantly closer than 21 feet. You will not have time to draw a weapon from its hiding place before the attacker is upon you.
Remember, if you think you were in a dangerous place, where you might need to shoot someone, WHY ARE YOU THERE? If you do not think you are in a dangerous place, you will not be as ready to draw and shoot a concealed weapon. What if you are sitting down and your concealed weapon is carried inside your belt, inside your pants?
You will be lucky to have time and ability to take effective action, if you are the target of an attack from a unimpaired person. And, if the attacker is skilled, you will likely have no chance at all.
The moment you start fumbling for your weapon, is the moment the attacker knows you HAVE a weapon. This makes you his first target.
So many things to consider. I think it best to study your draw and shoot technique where the attacker IS in contact with you, to the point where you need to use ONE arm to fend them off, as your weapon is drawn. And, how to shoot that weapon, when the attacker is only 12 inches away, without shooting yourself.
I also consider learning combat martial arts a must. Effective, deadly, unarmed techniques..which can be instantly applied in any situation..make any weapon you carry much more deadly.
Folks, don’t equate the 1.5 seconds/21 foot rule with at what point you can “legally” draw your concealed weapon. The knife wielding aggressor is a threat at 50 foot, if moving in your direction. It is incumbent on you to attempt to keep that distance from decreasing, unless you are not the target and you’re coming to the defense of a third party, but once a viable threat is identified, revealing your weapon is ok. Twenty one feet is the engagement distance, not just the threat distance.
There is no time/distance requirement as to when to prepare for an identifiable threat. The Tueller was not developed to put a defender into a “can I draw faster than he can traverse 21 feet?” quick draw competition. Rather, it is meant to educate the potential victim at what point their non-violent response options are gone.
As a side note, one of my ex-partners was no billed by a grand jury, after shooting a knife wielding attacker in the mid-80’s. The defense lawyer flew Tueller in to testify for my partner before the grand jury. (politically sensitive case, white officer/black suspect, much media drama)
Remember folks, EVERY STATE has their own laws surrounding this general subject. The book does an excellent job citing the laws for each state on various legal issues in this regard.
Additionally, the Tueller distance is a guideline. It is not absolute. It is just one aspect of which the legal system (and the jury) may look at.
After reading this book I was quite surprised as to how many things need to be done ‘right’ in a self defense shooting. One thing wrong, and you might be going to jail, even if the shooting was justified in your mind.
The attitudes of many people are such that they feel it will be an open and shut case if they were to be involved in a self defense shooting. I have discovered that this may likely NOT be the case, which is why I am going to read this book yet again – to ingrain the legal issues in my mind versus the state that I live in.
There are intricacies that vary from state to state, some QUITE LEGALLY SIGNIFICANT. For example, you may be able to ‘show’ your gun in one state, but NOT the next. If you run after the aggressor you yourself may become the aggressor and be charged, some states require that you attempt to ‘retreat’ if possible whereas others don’t, etc… Too much to explain in this comment thread đ but I will be posting additional articles based on this book’s information.
Here in Hawaii, even if I was being attacked by a group of people I would go to prison if I pulled my knife and cut a few of them to ribbons.
Downside of living in a gun free libtard paradise.
What about pepper spray?
I have known of the Tueller Rule (21 foot rule) for quite some time, well before my first Canceled Carry Training Class as certified with the State of New Mexico, where I have a Canceled Carry Permit.
With that said if one takes a CC Class and the instructor is certified they should be teaching Law as much as testing your shooting abilities. FYI, a CC Class is NOT the place to learn to shoot, go to a good school such as Front Sight, or Silver Eagle Group. PLEASE get training itâs important.
Itâs always amazing to me that some believe that once youâre involved in a shooting, justified or not, they can/will just walk away and be a-sponged of all charges and thatâs itâŠ.. Noooo, Not really that easy.
Just a couple of things that WILL happen, first you will be detained and probably spend at least some time in jail, you WILL lose the firearm for a minimal of 6-24 months, if not forever. You WILL be spending thousands for a Lawyer if you expect to get off. If itâs 100% justified you will still be spending tens of thousands of $$$ to defend yourself in court from being sued by the relatives because you killed their pure innocent defenseless baby. Remember Zimmerman? The man that was getting his face pounded in?
Being innocent and proving youâre innocent are two completely different things. Also as a previous article covered, do NOT talk to the police or ANYONE besides your lawyer, PERIOD? Keep your mouth shut, besides saying your name, address and basic info; do NOT talk about the shooting AT ALL!!!
Honestly your life will NOT be the same if you pull that trigger (or even pull the firearm out), but as everyone here agrees with, âBetter to be judged by twelve than carried by sixâ BUT better to walk away (if you can) or not be in that position, than to be macho and use deadly force in the first place. My friends, there is no shame in walking (backing) away from someone thatâs all puffed up trying to start something. Donât even brandish your firearm or even let them know youâre carrying, thatâs called âthreatening with intent to do bodily harmâ, unless justified.
Good luck, and PRAY like crazy you never find out the hard way what it is to take a life.
NRP
PS; I agree with the distanced stated by those above, if an attack is imminent, do NOT wait till 21ish feet to revel your intent to defend yourself. But do NOT shoot outside that range, you’ll probably not hit anything besides a bystander at 50 feet with a handgun.
A stat I have heard before
Average gunfight distance = 12.5 feet
Average number of shots = 2.75
I’d hate to run into someone with my experience throwing knives and tomahawks as a threat. I could stick them in a log target 30 feet away. It would be hard to prove in defense unless I had documentation the perp had this skill.
About long distance shooters—In one instance I talked to a judge about a nasty neighbor in Pa who threatened me and another neighbor by shooting his gun off a distance away every time we came close to our land boundary, and he was always hiding behind a tree in the woods. He started shooting wildly, scaring two neighbor children crossing his property as a short cut to get to their home. The judge said I would need proof that he shot in my direction by a video tape of him pointing and/or shooting his gun at me or a bullet that hit me. The latter wouldn’t do.
I bought a video camera for every time I walked in the woods and carried a pistol. When he would fire, I aimed and taped the direction he was shooting. I got the close shooting on tape as just noise. I also taped towards his house every time he shot his rifle.
He was always hidden in the trees except one time I used binoculars when he started shooting as I got close to my border before I taped… I saw him with his binoculars watching me, and then he took off running behind a tree, just long enough to tape him running away with his gun. I just couldn’t catch a view of him in the act of shooting. After that, he stopped shooting his gun, noticing I was taping him, and he knew he violated several laws if I got him on tape, one of those laws was the 500 ft safety zone he violated. He was 350 feet away.
Crazy thing, I saw in the town newsletter he was in charge of a children’s event in town. I told many people what he did threatening people and children with his shooting his guns and said I have him on tape and have my neighbors kids and another neighbor’s testimony. Small towns gossip and it worked. No one showed for his event. I fought with my own defense beyond the 21 foot rule, and “shot” back with a camera from afar.
Ision and Dennis make valid points in their posts. Let them sink in.
Most won’t have to worry about the legalities. Unless you train for these types of scenarios you most likely will be the one laying in the morgue not the bad guy.
Now that our Security Officer has moved in just a few miles away we have been doing a lot of close quarter combat training. It’s an eye opener! Going from buying bread and milk to fighting for your life in under two seconds!
He has us watch a particular YouTube channel videos. Last week 5 cops(from another country) trying to subdue 1 guy with a knife. All 5 are armed but they decide to give 1 cop a Bataan to subdue him. He attacks as soon as the cop gets close. Stabs him and runs for the next cop. Each cop retreats a little but the guy reaches him. Long story short he stabs 4 of the cops(killing one) before the fifth one can get a good shooting platform and takes him down. It’s at Redbeard Combative. (Hope that’s okay Ken.)
The best solution by far is to not put yourself in dangerous/potentially dangerous situations. My Cop buddies tell me nothing good happens after 10 p.m. Good point.
There is talk about a general strike on February 18 by the anarchists and the useful idiots. Sounds like an excuse for rioting and pillaging to me.
Stay safe folks. It will only get worse…
I think we may be missing the point on Tueller Distance (âDtâ). His calculation was based on an average police officer drawing and getting off a CoM shot of 1.5 seconds. That is with a holster worn on the waist (not concealed).
I would guess that a good percentage of the concealed carry civilians canât draw and get off a shot in that time frame. So your Dt would be further out that 21 feet. If your draw and shoot time is 2 seconds then your Dt is 28 feet.
It would make an interesting drill with your range buddy to measure and record your draw and shoot times using your concealed carry rig. This would be under ready conditions without a lot of distractions, close to an ideal scenario. I suspect draw and shoot from concealed will be much longer that 2 seconds. A written record of a number of test runs might well come in handy should one ever draw your weapon on a guy out at say 25â.
Tueller deals with the time needed to draw and fire your weapon. Obviously, if you draw on bad guy at 25â that doesnât give you the right to fire under Tuellerâs analysis unless he has moved to close the distance between you in the period of time between draw and shoot. With a drawn and aimed weapon your shoot time is in the .5 second range. This would put your fire distance at less than 10â.
Clarification of first comment, lest the implication should be misconstrued. Intended meaning was that Ken`s article is another good reason to carry chambered. Saves time which could mean the difference between walking away versus being carried away.
A fine example of concealed carry draw, for unchambered carry, is IDF. Most would hope to be that good/fast with concealed chambered carry. Stats show that the average distance that LEO discharges a weapon at a perp is between 0(body contact)and 3 feet away. I think that it was Ken who made a good suggestion in a previous article by stating to, if possible, if the need so requires, have your gun in one hand and your cell phone video recording the situation on the other.
I just LOVE IT when the bunny bites the wolf !
Two weeks before my 19 birthday I had to defend my self against a man with a knife. He had just slashed one of the men I was with, I did NOT have time to think.
My first shot was at 7 feet with a gov 1911 I felt the knife touch my chin,ten witnesses still was put thru hell for doing my job, the navy way you know. Bottom line things happen so fast you don’t have time to think. I’m alive because of training.
I have since been in much worse most of which I have been able to put away in the dark corners of my mind but that first time still comes back bright and clear, the shoot is fast and over but lives with you forever and changes you forever.
FRONT SIGHT. concealed carry practice, empty hand defense, edged weapons defense….you name it. GO DO IT!
Good info. This rule has been in every CCL I have taken.
To Old Homesteader:
My first time was backing up my partner on a carstop on an intoxicated driver. He came at my partner with a weapon. I put 2 rounds of buckshot through the rear window after yelling “gun!”. I was 22 years old in mainland US of A. I had a short action packed career during Reagan’s “War on Drugs” in civilian law enforcement stateside. After that incident, I was called or tapped for back-up quite a bit. Fellow officers knew I would do what needed to be done. We all have to go home at the end of watch.
Peacetime isn’t always so peaceful. Oh, by the way, I do not go packing everywhere I go. Today, I had a beer with my lunch of Fish and Chips in a downtown restaurant. I like to get out and smell the roses too. I did not feel naked with 2 folding knives and a can of OC spray on my person.
The Tueller rule only works if you remain static. This was proven to me time and time again in drills with the attacker coming from an unknown direction at closer distance. Your moves disrupts the attacker’s OODA loop, buys you time to draw and fire. If you don’t have cover and are shooting you should be moving. Try it, you may be surprised. But if you don’t learn to shoot while you are moving you are not trained.
Thanks for the mention!
–Attorney Andrew Branca
Law of Self Defense
@Attorney Branca,
Thanks for commenting here… Your book was (is) excellent!
My aim is to hopefully inspire others ‘who carry’ to read it. It was eye-opening for me, and I had no idea regarding all of the implications once you ‘enter the legal system’ following a self defense shooting.
I especially appreciate all of the references to various state law so that I know where I stand in my own state in this regard. I look forward to sketching a few additional articles surrounding the information in your book.
-Ken J.
in ny state its a MAJOR pain in ass to get your cc permit and you can be turned down FOR NO REASON on top of it taking up to 2 YEARS to work its way through the system so ive decided to learn how to use a BLADE the county im in you CAN carry up to a 12 inch blade as long as its single edge the only problem with that is its kinda hard to hide a 12 inch blade thats why im carrying a krambit and learning to use it
Thank you very much for writing this informative article about the Tueller Rule. I have heard of it before, but appreciate your concise summary, which is easily digestible and timely.
Sorry folks, but 21 feet is the MINIMUM I would allow for someone who is threatening me with an impact or edged weapon to approach me. Keep in mind when thinking of the article, those reaction times are for trained police officers, on high alert and expecting a possible issue. It takes the average human .75 seconds to recognize the immediate threat (that guy drew a knife) and then another .75 seconds to respond to that threat (your mind and body respond, and you START to draw your weapon.
OK, so you are young, have great reaction/perception time and can can draw/fire like Wayatt Earp… but now that angry, possibly hopped up person wishing to do you harm is within a few feet of you…. as we all know, even if you have the “best” caliber and “best” defensive load, it still takes time for the body to react when struck (yes even by 45 hardball). So even if you put 2-3 rounds in center mass (can you do that in 1.5 seconds with your EDC carry? and in this case, a brain or spinal shot to instantly drop them?) the attackers momentum and Adrenalin are going to carry them into you!!! They will still likely have the ability to take several strikes at you with whatever they are carrying…
During the old “Street Survival” seminars I attended as an LEO (now retired for a…few years) in the 80’s and 90’s, they had a trained officer out of the audience come up on stage and do a demo. The officer would stand with a revolver (blank with foam over wad) IN HAND and POINTING at another officer 21 feet away (with protective gear). They would tell the the other officer who was the “suspect” (they had discretely given him a rubber practice knife that is concealed in their waistband). The officer standing with the gun would be told that the other person is a threat, and will attack them at some point, and to take appropriate action when needed. At some point during a “heated discussion” between the two, the “aggressor” would suddenly rush the officer and draw the knife….. 9 of 10 times the aggressor will get to the officer before he could fire or even if not, close enough to make contact within less than 1 second. This when a trained officer, gun in hand, knowing the person is going to attack, but just not knowing with what…
Try it yourself sometime with a paintball gun (using appropriate protective gear). It is also a GREAT way to win an argument with someone who challenges the reasoning of an officer who fires on someone still a number of feet from them (done it myself and changed a few minds on the subject).