10-80-10 Principle | 10% Will Handle A Crisis | What About The Rest?
The 10-80-10 principle as it applies to many things.
A comment here (from ‘Lauren’) warrants a quick article. Why? Because it’s seemingly VERY relevant as to how people handle a crisis situation. Pretty much any crisis. Recognizing “who’s who” is a good thing to know for preparedness sake.
The 10-80-10 principle
Lauren said, “I just read something interesting that I think applies here. It fits with my own experience as well.”
10% of the people
10 percent of people will handle a crisis with a relatively calm and rational state of mind. They pull themselves together quickly. They accept the situation, make decisions to improve it, and take action.
80% of the people
However,the vast majority of us, 80 percent, are immobilized, stunned, and bewildered and wait for help to come or someone to tell us what to do.
10% of the people
The group we try not to be in, however, is the last 10 percent. They freak out and make the situation worse.
Ken adds:
This all sounds about right to me, given my life experience. The VAST majority of people are not proactive doers. I’ve seen it in life. Even in the workplace. Only a small percentage are the one’s who get the most work done (for example), or who don’t need supervision.
I’ve seen it during tense situations. It’s like people’s brains seize up for a while as they process what’s happening.
It’s largely due to normalcy bias in my opinion. We all succumb to routines to an extent. Our normal expectations of day-to-day life as we go about our lives. But, Whamo, when something goes “tilt”, that’s when the robotic motions and the central-processing-units go “blue screen”.
And how many of you have experienced the 10% who freak out? Oh my… I can think of many examples. They become big problems. Why? because they begin to affect the 80% who are looking for direction. And if they listen to the horrible advice coming from the freak-out group, well, that’s not going to be good…
So, Ken, why are you posting this?
My first thought was correlation of the 80% to the general “sheeple” group. Mostly followers who may be somewhat easily influenced. This is why the control of information is so important to those who are pushing an agenda. Example, current events of today and the silencing of opposing political voices to the mainstream. The mainstream media is VERY powerful in this regard. They know how important it is to influence the 80%.
Another reason I posted this. To realize that perhaps ~ 80% of people are not critical thinkers. When speaking with, or attempting to communicate with the 80% about something that could be “jarring” to their normalcy, it is important to understand their mindset. If you “blow their minds” (so to speak), their CPU’s will “lock up”. And then nothing gets in.
When the 80% hear, read, or see what seems to be “shocking” news, information, or events — their minds respond “this does not compute”. “Must be crazy”. “Conspiracy” (oh they love that word). Often they will harden their minds to further input and reject it immediately upon hearing, seeing, or reading what may seem an uncomfortable truth.
Anyway, just thought I’d throw it out there. 10-80-10. Thanks Lauren for bringing that up.
The problem with the bottom 90% is that they usually think they’re in the top 10%.
Nobody knows where they are in this 10-80-10 until its 20′ away from you breathing down your neck and looks the size of a beachball.
Then when you do know, you know and if you’re the 10 that lives for the slow motion you are above the rest and always will be.
As much as I’d like to say I’m in that top 10 bracket I cannot . I’m somewhere in between straddling the fence in amongst the 80 bracket. I do try to solve problems that come my way as quick as possible , without god willing making no rash decisions! But then there are instances where I procrastinate & as much I try to handle situations myself I find I definitely need guidance. But I always try to be rational and make sure with every decision I make know it will either be beneficial or a definite learning experience for me & my family.
I think that even those of us that consider ourselves in the top 10% occasionally get caught off guard in a situation that just seems so unreal and unexpected that you freeze up temporarily. It’s how quickly you recover that counts.
I believe humanity has entered a time period where the 10% + 80% equals (=) 0 % ( of the survivors). I watch and listen to people (including my family) here in Texas and they just do not know how to react to or prepare for serious problems. I am amazed sometimes at the serious lack of good judgement and I do not mean just young folks. I recently took a young man(29) under my wing to teach him survival skills both in the city and country side. It is a joy to watch him grow (learn).
Its innate and societies softness makes it difficult for these genes to be properly passed. By design , perhaps.
Lauren, thanks for the comment and Ken, thanks for the article.
We’ve likely all seen some form of this. A couple of years ago at a community BBQ in not-suburbia, a neighbor’s wife had breathing problems and passed out. Although he is certified in CPR and volunteered for years on community emergency response teams, he froze. He literally said he did not know what to do. Thankfully enough of us knew what to do that we got her taken care of until paramedics from the closest town got there. She’s fine, but he later admitted his mind went blank seeing his own wife ill.
How many people will freeze, or runaround like their hair is on fire during an emergency? In a true SHTF, how many of us will take that deep breath and carry on?
I was re-certified on CPR last year and had an excellent instructor. He said 2 things that really stuck with me:
1. The human brain processes things in part by quickly searching its memory for a comparable circumstance. When confronted with any emergency for the first time, people freeze because their brain has no similar experience to compare it to, or training so thorough that an appropriate response kicks in almost instinctively.
2. “Don’t become a casualty of the situation.” He said he’d been on countless fire and EMT calls where a second person was injured doing something in a panic in response to the initial problem.
He said there were MANY times someone either hurt themselves or made a bad situation worse doing something before thinking it through. Cut bare feet, banged heads, burns, car accidents, etc… all resulting from not taking a moment to think something through before taking an action.
I have not had enough training or experience to respond instinctively to many situations. So, during an emergency I’m going to have to hope I have a couple of seconds to respond appropriately rather than freeze or panic.
And in a true SHTF, I have to hope to be at BOL and not in suburbia. Having many thousands of panicky people around us making things worse would not be helpful to survival.
When I did my CERT training (more than 20 years ago now. Ouch.) the instructor said that the hardest thing he ever had to do was keep parents from entering a collapsed elementary school to look for their children. If you get hurt doing something stupid, you’re just another casualty and can’t help anyone.
This is an excellent question; where do I rank in the 10-80-10 range? I have been a problem-solver all my life, not only in my professional life but also as a mother and grandmother and now as a matriarch of a large family. I’ve hunted, killed and slaughtered animals at various stages of my life. I’ve also doctored husband, kids, grand kids and neighbors during emergencies. I’ve superglued wounds and stapled a few nasty cuts and helped mothers bring babies into the world. I’ve held hands with cancer patients and my dying family and friends; I’ve buried more than my share of humans and pets. But I have never killed a human being. That to me would be the ultimate test of where I stand on the range of 10-80-10. Could I protect my family, farm or neighbors when attacked by crazy bad guys.
Farmmom
For many things, I’ve been in the 10% of calm, responsive action. For some novel situations, but non-life threatening, it’s taken me a bit to get there and I’ve hung out in the 80% until I shook myself out of it. A useful mantra I saw somewhere helps: no one is coming to save you, and everything is your responsibility. Extreme, but useful for those frozen moments.
I share some similar experiences, except the mothers I helped deliver were dairy goats, so that’s a bit different! Taking a life is definitely the hardest experience I can imagine. The only thing remotely related are times I’ve needed to put an animal down, or take down a predator that was harming livestock or foodstock. Those instances were hard for me, even though I knew I acted as needed. It’s just not my normal nature, as my focus is generally on nurturing and healing.
One thing that I’ve been focusing on is seeing the bigger picture: not acting to protect against bad guys could end up costing an innocent life. Those who intend to harm others have, consciously or not, set themselves up for the consequences of their actions. In other words, they are choosing to act on the premise that it’s okay to harm or kill another person. Those who live by the sword…
I agree with you on taking life. If there is a predator howeverer I do not hesitate. With a predator, you are saving an innocent. When harvesting animals, it is something that you have to do, it is definitely unpleasant and gives me pause, but it is why we raised them. Euthanizing is the worst, doesn’t matter to me what it is, it almost feels like a failure when that occurs.
I vacillate between 11 and 1 o’clock on that chart, swinging across the 20% spread like some sort of bipolar condition. When I see signs of society disintegrating before my eyes, I lean toward the hair on fire response. But when the S-really-HTF, I get dead-calm and focused.
Just got back from an errand in a nearby town, took streets, not freeway. It’s really getting scary. Drivers are extremely aggressive now. There are burnout donut tracks at every 4-way intersection. And the mechanized battalion of 40+ year old tarped-over motor homes are steadily creeping in our direction. All bad.
Have you ever been in a fist fight, slept out in the woods with only the clothes on your back, broken a bone or had a severe trauma miles from any help, had your vehicle break down with no phone or help for miles, hunted gutted and processed your own meat, built your own home, repair your own tools, engines, built your own rifles, reload your own ammunition, had a financial problem occur out of the blue with no rich relative or government rescue, used a firearm to stop a life threatening situation,stayed calm when others broke down, etc, etc… Life is the best judgement, for which percentile you belong ..A person can fool others, but you can never really fool yourself. We all know which category we belong…
Wolfgar,
Funny. Went one by one through your list. Done every single thing you listed, several more than a few times. Never really thought of them as significant achievements, just meeting life as it comes.
Some roads are rougher than others, you just have to smooth them out the best you can.
Great article Ken, got me thinking. I have been a life long “doer”, but I must admit that I tend towards panic in emergency situations. I learned from mine rescue training years ago, the best way to prevent panic is to train. Be Prepared. This will allow your head to slow down and remember the proper response.(when your brain can’t focus on trained response, that is when panic sets in. At least for me ) . Point here: up to date training is key to a safe and effective response. Ymmv.
10 80 10 it all depends on the event , you , your experience, your expertise , training , and use of that training in real life.
We are never in the same place on that scale.
The human mind is amazing it will quickly whizz back through a multitude of scenarios to find something to help it . If it can’t oops. Don’t be in the oops
Work on your scenarios , prepare for the worst and hope for the best
Seen it, been there , seen the panic , seen the freeze . Seen the quick and the ….
We are in scary times let’s see if we can get to next year
Best tale told me to prepare for 10 80 10 , You are shopping on your local high street you see a tiger walk past on the other side
A) Do you say that’s illogical and ignore there no tigers in xyz
B) Do you scream like Kermit seeing Miss Piggy naked for the first time and get eaten by the tiger
C)Report to the authorities and hide and hope
D) Deal with it and look forward to telling the tale to MSB while sitting on your new rug :)
Ps to A the tiger does not know it shouldn’t be there you still get eaten
Ps to B I will be charged with being a muppetist
I’m new to posting here so I apologize for my blathering, but as I said earlier I’m somewhat straddling the 80. I’ve made a lot of decisions in my life & struggle sometimes with things I should’ve done better & more. I buried my mom when I was 35, my brother a year ago to cancer,which was a baffling amount of decisions upon decisions. I’ve been robbed at gunpoint & it’s hard in a split second how you react , I was with a family member whom I also didn’t want harmed. The absolute worst thing that rocked my very world to the core, was burying my 23 year old son….nothing absolutely nothing can prepare you for that.you literally feel like you have to pull yourself out of the depths of hell. But I did and I have other children that need me & I need them. We all have different difficult struggles & I’m so worried for I know there are many more coming our way.
Oklady, I don’t think you are giving yourself enough credit.. A loss of a child is the hardest challenge any decent human being could ever endure. The fact you are still going forward is a testament to your enduring strength. Life is not about self, but the resolve and ability to live and endure what ever life throws at us. Knowing there is something more important than ourselves, is what gives me strength.. Life is not fair, “but keeping on the right path” is what counts in the end. Every person fails, stumbles and falls, “but it is the person who gets back up and never quits” who is the real survivor in the end. Hence my disdain, “for the new victim mentality” permeating in our society and younger generation today.. People are often mislead, “into believing they are weaker” than they really are. Like the true evil, leftist push and exploit this false narrative to the masses, for personal gain.. Absolute power and control, “can never be achieved” with a nation of strong, independent thinkers and doers..
Wolfgar , thank you for your encouraging words. I have continued to move forward, i drag myself out of the bed every day , I go to work everyday & give the best care I can to my family & helping them to continue moving ahead. It has been the hardest journey to endure but we are doing it. Many thanks to all of the people on this site. I’ve been reading for years & you are all amazing.
Oklady, I cannot imagine how difficult that is for you to endure daily …. but you do it. You have the fortitude to keep going for yourself and those who rely on you. You have already lived a lot of hell that many of us cannot imagine. You will persevere and lead others on the right path. My prayers are with you and your family.
DAMedinNY, Thank you for your kind & encouraging words. Everyday is a battle in itself just to get up & moving, but to me there is no other choice. Thankfully, I’ve been blessed with a wonderful family that keeps me going forward. Without them & god I don’t know where I’d be. You are all so kind here! Many thanks!
Wolfgar over 75 years I’ve done all you point out , I find most people avoid me , I’m told I’m to blunt . People that dont like my answers shouldnt ask the question . I find the majority of people freak out and when you point out facts and then ask ” what will you do ” you get that deer in the headlights look , and they suddenly want to avoid any contact because your question scares them . A hard life is a good teacher JMO
Sounds very familiar. People today expect euphemisms, to preserve sensitive feelings. It is the tolerance of reality, “that has created the emotional insanity” in the world of the leftist cult. Everyone gets a trophy, is a victim, are special, etc, etc, has created a generation of confused misinformed fools. Today, fantasy has taken over reality with the obvious consequence of such thinking. Many don’t want to know the truth and will avoid it at all cost. The truth destroys their perception of themselves and world they have been taught to believe in. When a disaster or real crises occurs, the only reality that matters is the truth..As the old saying goes, hard times creates hard men, hard men create good times, good times creates weak men, weak men create hard times….
Somewhere in there there’s got to be a percentage for the oblivious “Crisis? What crisis?”
They would go right next to a dear friend of mine whose approach to anything that will cost effort is “It’s all fate or luck or destiny; there’s nothing I can do to change anything.”
I think this fits in the “Freakout” category. By refusing to acknowledge the crisis, they drag some of the 80% down with them, resulting in a larger freakout and mob actions addressed at the effective 10%.
As old man says; 10% of the people make things happen, 80% ,watch things happen,10% wonder what happened.
I am usually good in an emergency when I don’t have a lot of time to think. If I have to much time to think about it???
You never quite know how you are going to react in an emergency until you are in it.
If the percentages are correct, then IMHO the greatest dangers you will face are within five miles of your home. Unless you have a real retreat-off the grid-redoubt-backwoods, etc.; you are going to have neighbors. Neighbors in my tract here in Winterfell are either very aware or totally clueless. I watched how most of them acted and reacted, vis-a-vis the Plandemic. It was not at all reassuring. My small tribe is totally on board with my assessment and we are planning accordingly.
The one salient point which I will repeat over and over again is: STFU!(excuse my vulgar expression). Do not engage in political discussions. Stay gray. If you have to talk to strangers or even acquaintances, do not dwell on your world view and preps. The person pounding on your door in desperation due to clueless stupidity may not be some Antifa psycho, but that nice neighbor two doors down who you chat with once or twice a week. I know I sound cold-hearted but think on this: Preppers have been ramping up their activities and awareness since Y2K. If these sheeple, Normies, and Cucks cannot wrap their heads around the suddenness of catastrophe, then they will be culled. It is that simple. Do not be these people.
Spot-on Dweezil. I’m at the end of a cul-de-sac. One guy to my west is probably prepared. But he is a bit haughty, something about him I don’t trust. The ones on the east side are all Hispanic sidewalk parkers. Their family sizes have doubled and tripled since covid, 4 generations under one roof, in one case; all taking welfare; but damn if that Amazon wagon isn’t making daily deliveries over there. Others are public employees, utterly dependent on the government teat for a paycheck. I’m not on good terms with any of them – can’t stand how they trash up the neighborhood.
They have all, at some point or another, come to know me as a dangerous, raving lunatic; typically when they are raising hell at 3am, partying. They give me wide berth, never overhang my driveway and keep their kids away.
Small arms fire next block over right now. Sounds like 9mm, 5 slow, then 10 more rapid fire. Every night is like this, since April. Not even a bad area. Yet.
tmcgyver, your neighborhood sounds like a problem already which is going to get worse as the situation escalates. Any chance of relocating more remotely?
We live rural and many here see no problem with everything going on. About half are self-reliant people, many farmers. But there are also many farmers who think the Dems are on the right track. You just never know. In my case, at least the farmers can feed themselves. Your Neighbors will be looking for what you have and at some point Will risk all to take it. Their numbers could overwhelm you so plan accordingly.
So, here is my response from personal experience. I’m Very Good in high stress environments, it didn’t matter during my time in medic/emt field or when my entire block got wiped out by a flood. I’m can handle a stressful situation. My challenge is when the stress ends, I tend to try and bury it deep down inside, but sometimes it works it way to the surface. I know what I need to do. I’m working on it.
Just watched a movie a friend sent me, it is on you tube, titled “communism”. It is in black and white so I think it was made in the 50’s or 60’s. What he was saying, was how “they” would take over the US, and what he was saying is going on now. scary stuff indeed.
The grit and tenacity of all of the people who posted humbles me. I aspire to be stronger and learn more skills. As I age, I realize I must stay strong and healthy. Many around me have no interest in their health and I just don’t get it. Well, off to my small garden. Hopefully I will be canning this year and learn every skill I can to better survive what we all know is coming down the pipes. You are all an inspiration to me to never give up and keep on learning,
Lady Habeeb
The fact you have a garden puts you miles ahead of most!
Happy canning!
Lady Habeeb, welcome! Glad you posted. Best wishes to you and your garden…
yes, I agree with you, though I do not post frequently, I read often, and the folks here are truly inspiring…
Peace and Providence to you…
Taking into account the fact that I am writing this on Fathers Day:
Teach your children the hard lessons you may have learned over the years. Fewer words being used to convey the message tend to be the ones best remembered years later when they are gone
To Texas Boy: Thanks to you for taking some one under your wing to teach them. I was taught to be safe as a cop by older cops that took me under their wing when I was a young man in my teens. My father was not a cop. Some of their advice allowed me to survive several armed encounters during the years I did the job. This advice was passed on to me outside the hallowed gates of the Academy. ( usually on a fishing trip or while cleaning birds after a day of hunting in the fields.)
To So Cal Gal: It is quite common for people to freeze up an become catatonic when it is their own spouse or loved one that is injured/not breathing. Especially true if they truly love each other. In general, people do not make the most rational decisions with the ones they truly love. Knowing this, my wife and I both drew up wills several years ago because we do not want to linger on a ventilator in a persistent vegetative state when something happens to us and we can no longer speak on our behalf.
Lastly, I wish to explain that the interior of an ambulance is a crowded workspace and the ground moves beneath our feet while vehicle is in motion. That is one of many reasons why parents or relatives are not allowed to ride inside. ( helicopters have limited lift-capability and that capability is reduced in hot weather and high altitudes.) Take notes on which hospital patient is going to and meet the patient there with a bag of clean underwear and socks+ toothbrush.
So far, I have made a living making the right decisions in times of turmoil. My time is coming to an end. We do not make the best decisions all of the time. At the end of the day, we have to live with that. Along with old age comes psychological burn-out and apathy. I never took a class that has helped me with that aspect of emergency services or medical work in general.
That is why I come home and spin fat cats on a wood floor and try to not drink too much when I am at home. My garden in my yard is my therapy: fewer vegetables and mostly flowers, I like reading about people raising chickens and gathering eggs on this site. I see the appeal of cute cat videos online. I try never to watch news coverage of the civil unrest on TV these days. ( the cops all look so young!)
Most on this site would like to consider themselves to be in the top 10% of those that are ready. Depending on the day/ our level of fatigue/ level of involvement, we can all make bad decisions or react poorly to a situation. Cut yourself some slack and move on. ( or in the case of being behind cover while being sniped at, sit tight and wait it out.)
Those that admit you are not in the top 10% are the ones I have faith in because they are being honest with themselves. They have truly seen the Bear in one of many forms. Parents burying their children has been the toughest situation I have seen and helped with over the years. There are times you need to sit down and have a good cry over the loss of good people, family members and innocents in the aftermath of a disaster be it economic, weather related, medical etc.
Enough said, I talked too much already. Sorry about that Ken.
CaliRef,
Thanks for your comments, and it makes sense. Much easier to control emotions and responses when helping someone you don’t love dearly.
We also have DNR’s and other explicit instructions so if one of us is stricken the other is not trying to make gut-wrenching decisions in the moment.
Well said, Calirefugee, re: decision making…
P.S. My cats like to slide on the floor ;)
This post provides an excellent commentary about what is currently happening in this country. It doesn’t matter where we personally fall on the list. What matters is the other 10% is using literal violence and threats of violence to scare the masses into believing in something that’s not real. They use economic persecution and have forced corporations, which are already filled with PC hires in management, to turn into political propaganda machines. No longer is politics relegated to the traditional media and social media but corporations are forced to push the message. A lot of people will just go along because they have been brainwashed all their lives by schools, by cartoons, by celebrities, and by the government. They nodded their heads and made token acknowledgements, but they never were in total agreement and were able to see through some of the fakery and false narrative. Now, most people are forced into accepting it. Most will not be able to make any statement which opposes or is even parallel. They must adopt the exact wording and exact cause. We have so many regulations but none that protect us from economic devastation over exercising free speech. Literally saying “All Lives Matter” can get you fired.
The other 10% recognizes the lies and false narrative. We know that black on white violence plagues every western country. We know who causes a lot of the problems in Chicago, Rio de Janeiro, London, or in Paris. We know poverty is just an excuse because 1 billion Indians are living in shacks, but the violent crime rates, while higher, are much lower than majority black areas. 1 billion Chinese are the same. 100 millions in Eastern Europe as well. We know that the 1 trillion spent on education isn’t going to make a difference. What did make a difference is a stable family structure and strong black communities with selective breeding. But modern culture now denigrates traditional family values and the government aids, abets, and incentivizes broken households with their handouts. Now, many blacks scream for reparations despite having 2 trillion dollars of reparations in the form of welfare and other social programs over the last 150 years. The 10% of blacks that are conservative recognize this. But they are called not black.
We are the opposite 10% in the 10-80-10 principle. However, social media giants are controlled by those who silence us. They choose what trends to display, they choose what news to curate and display, they choose the fact checkers, and they allow bots and trolls to manipulate trends. They choose who to censor, who to demonetize, and who to ban. It’s the same with corporate America which will now fire anyone who doesn’t fully support the narrative. The police state (which isn’t our ally) will persecute us but go soft on the other.
There are a lot of people who still have sensibility. But when we are not the majority, a political solution to the problem is not possible as they control the system. There are always avenues like moving to states and counties which are better demographically, but that is not a permanent solution to our problems. Every year it is going to get worse. Independence would be a solution, but that is difficult and would take complete unification of our people to accomplish. Problem is we are generally very comfortable in our lifestyles. We are doing ok economically. The 10% on the other side have less to lose. If all this stuff that has been pushed for the last 90 years happened at once, it would have been pushed back strongly. But it is done slower. There has been pushback. Look at who we have in office today. But it is never enough to stop the underlying problem. We have been too nice. It’s our greatest weakness.
Jake Ulrich
Great post.
You and I think along the same lines and ideas.
+1 SMG
Jake,
My wife is so sick of me saying the same thing you posted. Get out of my head…lol
Maybe its time we start acting, not stating facts. Freedom is not free.
Once someone speaks support (even if they don’t truly agree) it’s much harder to refuse to speak the next time. It’s part of the propaganda machine.
“Political correctness is communist propaganda writ small. In my study of communist societies, I came to the conclusion that the purpose of communist propaganda was not to persuade or convince, nor to inform, but to humiliate; and therefore, the less it corresponded to reality the better.
When people are forced to remain silent when they are being told the most obvious lies, or even worse when they are forced to repeat the lies themselves, they lose once and for all their sense of probity.
To assent to obvious lies is to co-operate with evil, and in some small way to become evil oneself. One’s standing to resist anything is thus eroded, and even destroyed. A society of emasculated liars is easy to control.
I think if you examine political correctness, it has the same effect and is intended to.
Theodore Dalrymple”
Honestly, being a former EMT and former natural disaster rescuer/survivor, I can confidently say that I’m in the top 10%. I can say the my wife is also in the top 10%.
A bit of advice is: deal with the situation now and cry later, when you are safe and sound.
yep
There is some hard science done on this subject, the American psychologist Stanley Milgram wanted to know why common soldiers in Nazi Germany followed orders to do horrible things, so he devised an experiment. The result was so shocking that the experiments were repeated over and over again, the experiments found that about 66% of most population groups will do horrible things when told to do so by an authority figure (sheeple). I’ve read another study that said about 13% of people have brain chemistry designed to reward good acts, and at the other end of the spectrum there are the antisocial personality disorder types (psychopaths and sociopaths) and I’ve read they account from 1 to 8% of the population. The remainder are somewhere between the three groups.
If you want to go down a dark rabbit hole look at stanley milgram. Oh, and the good news is that the experiments did find some groups are far less likely to be sheeple. College aged women are only about 20% sheeple, so if you want to change the world, start at the colleges.
Common German soldiers acted with the tremendous honor and respectability. I can not say the same for the Soviet troops who committed millions of atrocities against civilians as well as American troops who did the same.