SURVIVAL SKILLS

When The Grid Goes Down – It’s Going To Be ALL LOCAL

Preppers, the preparedness-minded, often discuss and plan for Grid Down. Why? Because it is not beyond the realm of possibilities. And just about everything in our lives DEPEND on electricity.

Most all of us have experienced Grid Down already. Most likely from hours, to possibly a day, maybe two. Fewer of us have had to cope with Grid Down for one or maybe two weeks! However it certainly happens under extraordinary circumstances (usually extreme weather event).

I can guarantee that EVERYONE who has gone through a power outage, especially those lasting one or two weeks, they will tell you that everything becomes ALL LOCAL. In other words, you’re in your local bubble, dealing with Grid Down and the inconveniences thereof.

Today’s post is an attempt to urge you to look at it from that point of view. All Local. But take it a step further and pretend that you can’t get in your vehicle and just drive out of it. I know that’s cheating a bit, but, a real and long term Grid Down will likely result in little or no transportation ability.

Why? Because Gas Stations will lose their ability to pump gasoline. Generators will serve for awhile, but when the gas runs out, the generators shut down.

Okay, so here we go. Lights Out. It’s now, ALL LOCAL. What you have is what you’ve got. That’s it. Too late to run out to the store and get X, Y, or Z.

When the Power Goes Out, Neighbors Usually Help Each Other

It’s something that happens naturally. Usually. Neighbors helping each other out when there’s a disaster. Grid Down isn’t necessarily a disaster at first. But it will become one, eventually. Sooner for some, later for others.

There are exceptions of course (to neighbors helping neighbors). However history reveals that even those neighbors whom you’ve possibly had issues with or disagreements and such, often people just come together and help each other.

Why? I believe it’s our survival instinct. Deep down we know that there’s power in numbers. We might need each other to survive. To cobble together a tribe.

Some of the VERY WELL PREPARED preppers may disagree with me on this. And I know there are exceptions based on local neighbors themselves, the neighborhood, and other factors. But the fact WILL be that your cocoon is going to be ALL LOCAL. And it may be beneficial to look beyond just one’s own domain.

You might shut the gates or raise the drawbridge. Others might band together with neighbors and pool SOME of their resources and talents.

My point of view is a bit skewed where I currently live (rural). People are mostly self reliant to one extent or another here. Even those whom we know which lean a different political direction than we do, they are still good people with resources and talents.

My immediate neighbor down the road, whom I share our private road with, he is on the same page as me, so to speak. But our next neighbor further down the intersecting road leans left (the Mrs. in that household leans far left). However, you know what? They’re good people, despite their mistaken political outlook. And they would bring valuable resource to the table.

I guess what I’m trying to point out is that it is usually beneficial for neighbors to come together and help each other out. Grid Down is All Local.

HOWEVER, and this is where it gets squirrely…

When Grid Down Turns ‘Real’, What I mean is, ‘Real Bad’…

Nearly all Grid Down situations are short. It can even be fun to experience it for awhile (just like camping, right?). But there WILL be a point in time when the so called fun won’t be fun anymore.

When will that happen? Well, certainly when supplies begin to run out. That’s going to be different for everyone. When the lights go out and the grid goes down, what you have is all you have. And eventually, supplies begin to dwindle.

You and I may have a year’s worth of food and supplies (level-3 preparedness). And maybe you or I are willing to share some of it with the local tribe for awhile. But if this thing drags out, decisions will have to be made. And/or adaptations to the circumstances to find alternatives to the supplies that may be needed (there’s often a way).

Be aware. You can count on the fact that most of your non-prepper neighbors will run out before you do. But again, we’re talking long-term Grid Down in this instance. We all know it’s going to get real ugly in that scenario. It will be all local. And those issues will be all local, as in, your neighbors and neighborhood. Think about it. Improvise, Adapt, and Overcome.

Do Your Neighbors Have Resources or Talent That May Help During Grid Down?

Again, where I live, most everyone is seemingly self reliant enough to contribute towards survival in such a disastrous event. But, what if you live in suburbia where most of your neighbors are not skilled at all in basic living (without the grid)? Or don’t have much extra food, or a generator, or other basic short-term preparedness supplies?

Again, it’s going to be all local. So you’re going to have to either shut them out, or perhaps work with them to an extent. If you raise the drawbridge, you will become a sort of target. If you remain “gray” while interacting with your local situation, then maybe that might be better?

I know what you’re going to say… “it depends”. Yep, it does. If you know right away that the worst has happened (e.g. EMP strike, CME disaster, or a circumstance that you KNOW this is going to be very LONG TERM), well then that might (or should) adjust your thinking! There are other “it depends” too…

But even then, it may be worth your while to team up, if it’s mutually beneficial. It’s all an individually based judgement call to your own circumstances.

Local Resources

I wonder what sort of local resources would be valuable during a Grid Down event?

At first, the basics. Generators and Fuel! Where I live, nearly everyone likely has a generator and extra fuel. Harsh winter storms may knock out power for a time. When it happens to you the first time, you learn, and go out and buy a generator.

When a power outage is going to be relatively short, I would think that most people would not have a problem sharing what they have with others in need (while staying “gray” about what you may have). So, food and water. That’s easy. Because you have plenty.

Maybe it’s during the winter and your neighbor’s heat is out. But you have a wood stove, or alternative energy to keep your heat on. Are you going to let them freeze or invite them over? I’m going to invite them over, because I know who my neighbors are and have no problem with such a thing.

Food. Water. Shelter. Security.

Security will ordinarily not become a big issue until the Grid Down extends longer and the bad element becomes more bold and brazen. With that said, some neighborhoods are less than safe to begin with. So security might become a immediate concern.

A sort of neighborhood watch, people set up with 2-way GMRS battery operated radios, will be a valuable thing for security. I have a hand full of such radios, just in case. Plus I know that some of my neighbors do too (for some of their day-to-day communications out in the field and so on).

The Takeaway

Remember, it will be ALL LOCAL. So I encourage you to think about it that way. Understand more about your neighbors if you can.

Do more focus research on natural resources in your local area. Where are the above-ground water sources. Find and locate areas with natural foods (food producing trees, bushes). We have ‘tons’ of wild growing apple trees in our region. Equally we also have abundant wild raspberries, black berries, blue berries. When in season, there is a lot of food available. Admittedly I need to learn more about foraging, which is another option. Did you know you can eat dandelions? (for example)

Who are the farmers in your region? Do you personally know any of them? Things like that. Discover where the appropriate talent is in your own LOCAL.

Okay. Enough of my ramblings. I just thought I would throw out the concept of All LOCAL. We often focus on our own personal preparedness within our own domain/property. But we need to look beyond too. Just in case. For good or for bad, the fact is, most all of us have neighbors, and there ARE tangible resources in each of our local areas if you look for them.

Continue reading: The Difference Between Self-Reliance & Self-Sufficiency

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68 Comments

  1. In a long-term grid-down situation, I agree that your neighbors will be your team. The rural road we are moving to (even more rural than this road) has a creek at one end and a rural highway at the other, with about 40 houses inbetween, at least 15 percent family and some others long-term friends. People most likely won’t freeze to death, because we are too far south. Sad to say, many out here hunt recreationally, but do not keep a garden any more. There are beef cattle, hay fields, and timber. I think we can all make it through one winter, where we can plant some winter vegetables and eat cows, but after that, everyone can have a garden or help us with ours. I feel that our security will be good, but people will have to learn to walk or ride bikes when their Gators and four-wheelers don’t work. There are at least a couple of retired military officers who can employ some strategy. And that is why we are moving there. We are clearing, fencing and building to prepare!

    1. g.willikers
      The big problem now a days is how helpless most of your neighbors will be.
      For example, the last time the power went off here, another guy joined in and we roamed the neighborhood showing folks how to get their garage door open without power.
      Most didn’t have a clue how to do just that simple thing.
      My parents lived though the privations of WW1 and knew survived the great depression ok.
      I lived through the last of that and the privations of WW2.
      Folks today walk around in a daze if their internet goes down.
      Heaven help us.

  2. – This year’s garden is a minor disaster. I have yet to get even one tomato due to the heat and dryness of the weather this year. However, a neighbor with a large acreage of cotton also has a small garden out behind his barn. I have gifted him and his wife several buckets of tomatoes in years past. His wife called my wife the other day; the upshot of it all was a large bag of okra, 2 “Israeli” melons (similar to both cantaloupes and honeydew, but not quite like either) and an invitation to come and pick more when they were ready. The wife would give DW a call when they were ready. that’s near enough, I think

    – Papa S.

  3. We are about to have a “grid down” experience again here in North/Central Florida.

    Most of our neighbors are Vets, so we have no concerns about security. However we are the only ones with Fruit Trees, Berry Bushes and a garden. Within walking distance there are many cattle ranches and our church is only a little over a mile away, so we would rely on fellow Church Members also. A couple of homes have swimming pools which could supply bathing and laundry water. I think pretty much the whole state that can afford one has a generator.

    1. Seminole Wind be safe down there! My Dad is in Daytona area, keeping my fingers crossed this thing doesn’t pick up steam like they think it’s going to

  4. How long does it take for people to realize that the grid may be down for a long time or forever? You start with no worries and a generator. You help all that are in need like in the past because they are your neighbors. Things start to run out and tempers are beginning to flare.

    So, the question is always, when do you seriously bunker down for your own family or small group survival? Or, does everyone suffer equally in your area and go down together?

    1. hermit us
      IMO the moment folks don’t see hope or an end. Everyone is singing the community kumbaya right now and like the other post where they have a hurricane coming or a ice storm etc. it’s all hunky dory but the minute it’s bad as in TEOTWAWKI bad then things will rapidly change.
      The Balkans, Venezuela etc will show you examples. Selco has some good teachings that I can attest to the validity having been there during the war.
      During the wars and deployments I often worked with other countries. They were allies but when supplies ran thin my men came first. Often that wasn’t viewed favorably and it even got physical once. Hard choices must be made and you had better be willing to fight like the third monkey on the ark ramp for it.
      As for me I don’t love my neighbors like I do my grandkids. It’s not even close. I might be judged for it later but I’ll accept it.

      1. “…when supplies ran thin my men came first.”

        Exactly. This is the natural way of human behavior. Logical. So for those who are into high level preparedness, let that sink in. EVERYONE will be of the same motivation. And that’s when it gets real, for real.

    2. – hermit us,
      That’s why you want an AM/FM/SW radio tucked away in a Faraday cage. Intel is always, and always has been since before written records were kept, one of the most important, valuable things anyone can have. Whether from your radio or a traveling minstrel, there is nothing like proven valid information.
      No one said you have to give away the farm; you can help others, even have them in your home, without telling/showing them everything.
      – Papa S.

    3. A grid-down situation can be somewhat assessed when it takes place. Weather-related grid-down problems are temporary problems — some are short-lived, some are more like disasters, but weather-related grid-down problems are not the same as lights-out from an EMP/HEMP.
      It’s my belief that the way people handle a weather-related grid-down event will be very different than they way they behave with grid-down from an EMP strike, or unexplained blackout.

      1. MT
        That unexplained blackout? When to get serious about self/family preservation – the blocked road, the wire, the shutters, animals brought in or slaughtered, …
        After one day, two, three?
        No one on shortwave, no emergency broadcasts on crank up radio, …
        I guess it depends on your neighborhood, relationships with others but around here I start to get serious on day three. Gradual tightening of security as needed in reaction to community temperament – riots? thefts? begging? Or, like NRP noted, offered help with no strings might change my procedures some.

        1. Hermit, Our area had a 4 1/2 day grid-down during a blizzard. There were no behavior issues that we were ever made aware of. There were no emergencies that we knew of, either. The electricity went out during the last 12 hours of the blizzard. That meant no wells were operational, and anyone without a wood stove, was living with daytime temps of about 20-degrees F.

          After the blizzard, there was the issue of snow — we had FEET of snow. This meant the roads were completely closed down (think: shut-ins, no emergency services).

          So if families didn’t have a genny to use (with ample fuel to run it with), there was no water for most people except from melted snow. No cooking for anyone using electric. No heat for the houses unless there was wood stove heat. And no way out. People knew there was a big snow storm on the way. Dare I suggest that most people were somewhat prepared??? Again — there just were no behavioral problems whatsoever. The grid-down problems everyone faced were weather-related and people in the area never resorted to crimes or acts of belligerence/threats.

          Grid-down from an EMT is a whole different beast. There are 2 people (2 different households) who I believe would become very agitated very quickly. They’re not on our ‘nice list’….ironic that they are both transplants from the ‘burbs. But it would be the outsiders that I would fear and try to protect our place against.

      2. Yes, you are absolutely correct. Most all grid-down’s are temporary. And it’s really no big deal because it’s clearly not the “end of the world”. People help each other because for one reason they know the power will be coming back on soon enough. But like you said, if people know that it won’t be coming back on for possibly a very long time, then, it’s going to be a different situation…

    4. hermit us,
      I’m glad that you brought that up. Your question, is exactly what would be my question when the power goes out. “How long might this be down?” I would want to determine the cause, which would translate to a probable time frame of outage. I have a plethora of battery operated radios to discover that. If it’s a worst case scenario, then my decision making will certainly be adjusted.

  5. I’m one of the people who really has an “It depends” answer.
    In suburbia, one neighbor knows how to grow food, and works for a company that sells to retailers that sell to home gardeners, so that neighbor has knowledge and some supplies. Most other neighbors are white collar workers with no visible skills. So, unless someone is practicing some major OPSEC, my neighborhood is lacking resources. Not good.

    Now, BOL is completely different: hunters, fisherman, carpenters, retired military, several very serious home gardeners and canners, etc… these are folks who have skills and a sense of community. Also, being nearly 20 miles to town, people tend to have full pantries (at least). This situation has even been discussed with a couple of close neighbors… we are on the same page.

    So, one of the reasons I am highly attuned to news (particularly financial and political) as well as MSB (Ken and all of your collective and shared insights) is because the only chance of survival in long-term grid down will be location. Obviously I can’t foresee an earthquake, but if I can detect a financial or political crisis that may lead to a grid down even a few hours head start could be a lifesaver. Literally.

    1. Location, location, location… just like what they say about real estate. It’s true too for BOL’s, survival, SHTF…

  6. First off, Papa I can sympathize and empathize with your garden woes. Takes just as much work to have a bad garden as a good one. Mother nature decides, which you’ll have.

    I plan to take it slowly. No one needs to know what, if anything, I may have. My wife and I will decide if/when we might share a little. It’s difficult to have much sympathy for those WHO CHOOSE to NOT prepare.

    Much in the article about generators. What if an emp disables your genny? Your neighbor has one he stored in a metal shed and it works fine. Now it begins. You want power, your neighbor has it. Maybe you have stored some fuel, your neighbor hasn’t. Obviously, an arrangement could be arrived at. What’s the cost???? Are ya willing to share all your stored food, for access to some power. Do ya move the genny back and forth? The fuel? I can see problems in the near future.

    Security. You can’t do it by yourself! What to do? The neighbor with the genny doesn’t own a gun and doesn’t like you having one either. Just a thought, as around here, everyone owns guns.

    I am very fortunate to have an excellent well. The water is great. A couple of nearby ranchers even come here to fill 5 gallon water jugs, for drinking. Their well is not nearly as good. Nothing I did, just luck of the draw. I plan to share water with my neighbors, if necessary. I have a deep well dc pump and solar panels to do just that. Should make for a good start on helping others.

  7. My 2¢, and some are not going to like it.

    Tis a fine line one walks when things go to crapo, aka SHTF
    Whom do you trust, whom do you relay on.
    And whom will betray your trust and literally take your last Snickers Bar when their kids are hungry?

    Neighbors are the worst, IMHO, they are the ones that know exactly what you have, Yeah Yeah Yeah is all about OPSEC right? Sure it is, let me tell ya, your neighbors know when your Garden is ready for Harvest; they know when you last butchered a Hog, and when your trees are full of fruit. I will guarantee you they know for a fact you have food and water stored up. Do you honestly think they can’t hear that Gen-Set running, as their freezer food starts to rot? Heck, they even know when you do Canned Peaches because you probably shared some with them…. Right?

    Ok, this is an article about “ALL LOCAL”.

    So when do you decide when the charity to the neighbors will stop?
    When do you become aware that the next door neighbor’s kids are starting to starve?
    Do you not help at all If/When and become target # 1 with those that know you “have”?
    OR….. do you go all in and open your stores to everyone within 10 miles and hope the POOP drips off the Fan quickly?

    I don’t have an answer to any of the above, and those that say they do are full of that Fan stuff.

    I do know one needs to be very VERY careful on who they “THINK” you can trust and depend on.

    A little personal story, Y’all know I have shingles right now. When this started 5 weeks ago I let my closets neighbor (someone I though was a good friend and I could rely on) know and a good friend 30 miles away. The next day when my eye swelled shut and was in full on panic mood I was shocked at the two different responses I got.

    1. “well good luck”, he had to finish his Golf and could not be bothered. Did not even offer to check in later. Even sent a photo, ya know what he texted back??? “Ouch, Bummer Dude” word for word.

    2. “I’ll be there in 30 minutes and were going to the ER, be ready” The trip involved almost 9 hours of his time and a total drive of well over 100+ miles. BUT guess what, he dropped everything to help……. He now still checks with me 2-3 times a day.

    Want to know why I could care less about some of my neighbors? AND who will be on my ‘Invite’ list If/When. BUT guess who will be my biggest threat If/When?

    Choose your trusted friends well. AND your “ALL LOCAL”.

    1. NRP,

      Right you are. I like to tell folks “I don’t really trust anyone but me…….and I’m not sure about him.”

    2. NRP, I couldn’t agree more. Neighbors watch, but some won’t engage. We have a family cluster where we are and they are ‘good people’ (the parents divided their property and all kids built homes on acreage given to them). Unfortunately, the wife of one son is an extreme gossip and we would have a real problem with her. She’d be on a VERY short leash! lol

      We have several kind neighbors who are elderly. Those people would be our focus because they have aged considerably since we moved here 34 yrs ago — their abilities are becoming limited. We would have to draw the line there. Can’t help everyone, and won’t help everyone.

      We also have “transplants” who moved here and they are not to be trusted. They really believed when they build their big homes that they could dictate their suburban way-of-life (including suburban ‘rules’) out here in the country. Several of these people hated guns and so we became the subject of their rage because we have a range that is put into use. We won those battles (and there were battles w/ 911 calls and battles with the County Board of Supervisor via their complaints). So, sorry…..we remember these things. Our nasty guns will be used for hunting and they wouldn’t possibly want to eat meat that was brought to the meal-table with a loud, mean gun.

      In the country, you can’t hide your gardens, your orchard, your barn, your livestock, or your 1,000 water tank. You can’t silence your genny when it’s running and you can’t catch all of the aroma of the foods you cook. Neighbors see it now, and they’ll see it differently with the fear of grid-down and hunger pangs.

      So, NRP, I completely get what you’re saying! And I am glad you’re back posting. Hope you are 100% soon!

    3. NRP, That was a very helpful and thought provoking comment. The people you and I know, are not necessarily the people we THINK they are.

      1. you never really know who your neighbor is, until you go through a grid-down…..just like you never know who you are married to, until you divorce her…..

    4. To NRP–been there. Local is not for me. My close neighbors, I mean we can hear their porch conversations!!!, suck..all of them.
      I only know 3 of their names –first only–of the 10 houses on this street that I call neighbors. Am I a b***h????
      Yes, damned straight!!
      I will NEVER forget 17 days of caring for Gene with brain surgery and not ONE of these ‘neighbors’ checked on either Gene or me..my yard is spic and span for 10 years and not one noticed it wasn’t mowed?
      Say or think what you want about me–I will not feed these folks.

      1. JJ:
        Your 17 days hit me right upside the head…..
        Thats a heck of a long time with nobody even checking on you-all.
        I hope Gene is doing well.
        Prayers go out to you both.

    5. NRP
      Now you know who are your true friends are and who is a good time acquaintance.

    6. Please for those able to, get your shingles vaccine. I know many people less than age 50 who have had shingles. It will be one less thing to worry about in a stressful situation when the immune system may be stressed. And get tetanus and other recommended vaccinations for yourselves, your children, your pets and your livestock if applicable. Also some vaccines are recommended for seniors 65 plus. It could mean the difference between lying on the couch with chicken soup for a few days and someone calling the funeral home on behalf of a loved one.

  8. So I read Nuclear EMP Attack Scenarios and Combined-Arms Cyber Warfare by Dr. Peter Pry. Gave me the willies. “In one year, as some EMP experts have warned for over a decade, 9 of 10 Americans are dead from starvation, disease, and societal collapse.” Presuming a higher percentage in more densely populated areas, we might be relatively unscathed out here.

    Also gave me a nightmare. Dreamed that the grid went down hard and a group of unprepared neighbors showed up demanding that I had to feed them since I had food, and tearing down my fences to reach the animals. All I could think of was the scene in Malevil where the survivors kill invaders who are eating their crops right in the field – which horrified me when I read it.

    Have a group about 1/3 each family, friends, and neighbors. Family and friends would have to make their way here. Have water, an immature orchard, good soil but not much of a garden this year, lots of seeds some of them in LTS cans. And weather that doesn’t get either terribly hot or very cold for long, although more cold is coming. Woods, pasture, creek, and river. Have talked to a few neighbors (who are unaware of the group) about becoming more resilient just in case. More folks are getting livestock, mostly cattle and sheep. Some baby pigs, when they arrive, are already spoken for. The only commercial farmer on the road grows micro greens for restaurants. A few houses have gardens, and some have greenhouses. Half the road is older, half the road is relatively poor, a known number are problematic. By the looks of their places, might be a handful of houses of dedicated preppers in our 4-1/2 miles, but I don’t know them.

    Like Lauren has commented, will try to help anyone by sharing seeds to be more self-sufficient. But my preps are for my family and group.

    I can see communal meals and pot-lucks becoming a thing, and a day’s labor traded for a meal.

  9. Our area(large land sections) has changed over the past few years. The hardier folks sold out when the ‘city water’ came along with city dwellers.
    Neighbors who we could depend on and assist are less than a hand full now. One neighbor I have known since I was teenager they are like minded, back east neighbors, and our good friends, his is more on the same page as we are, then his wife.

    We have been without power for 10 days, but that was in the old house. It was easier to heat but not cook, as it was all electric(thanks PG&E). Newer house has propane, but due to health requirements power is a 24/7 necessity. Even with neighbors assisting we would still have a dilemma that would require an additional power source.

  10. Do not worry, or, count on neighbors!
    Plan to take of you.
    Here in Florida, we get Hurricanes, which means power outages.
    The last storm caused outage that lasted for 4 days.
    My neighbor is in a motorized chair, I took my gen over and charged his chair.
    Now he has a Generac, maybe he can help me– tho will no count on it.
    You should only plan to take of your family.

  11. I have 1 neighbor I can count on,”1″. The others all moved here from large cities to avoid the hassle, and they are dumber than a rock, and pert near useless in an emergency situation. In a 1 mile circle around my place, there are 250 homes. This use to be “way out in the country”, but not anymore. I know almost nobody in those 250 homes. I ain’t gonna depend on my “neighbors” for nothing but a huge bunch of problems.

    I posted this a long time ago, but, today I’m gonna re-post, this is how I actually feel. yep, it’s threatening, cold, self-serving, but it just the way it is.

    The world is entering a kind of no man’s land, in between the realms of insane denial and utterly obvious crisis. Prepare for an armed conflict that will make the Civil War look like a grade-school fistfight at recess. There is only one solution: This is war when the government comes for the right that “shall not be infringed”, your food and supplies, and maybe even you personally. Neighbor protect neighbor and show as much mercy to the gun confiscators as they show you! Will the aforementioned happen? HELL NO!!! Because 97% of Americans have let our government slowly erode our Constitutional rights and the deep state bad guys are betting you will do nothing to stop their confiscation. But, We have NOT, forgotten about the III% of us who will fight, and fight to win, no holds barred.!

    I’m afraid I’m going to have to say this because I don’t know if anyone else will admit it I love my friends, but I will shoot you if I have to. I’m serious. Here’s why. “I’ll come to your place when SHTF.”

    No, you won’t. I will shoot you. If you threaten me and my family, I will use force to defend against any threat. And showing up at my place hungry and unprepared is a threat to me. You will eat my food and use up my supplies, generator, firewood, etc. That’s less of these life-saving things for me and my family. That’s a threat.

    Why should I spend my time, money, and stress just so you can waltz into my place and live happily ever after? I’m a nice guy, but – really? – I’m going to spend my time, disposable income, and domestic tranquility just so you can have a leisurely life and more material comforts pre-Collapse while I don’t? Why would you think I will sacrifice enormous amounts of my time and money so you can enjoy yourself, living off of my foresight, hard work, and sacrifice?
    You had years of time and very clear warnings to get ready. But you didn’t.

    Is this greed on my part? No. I will take care of the truly needy – those who cannot take care of themselves. But you are different. Very different. You had plenty of chances to prepare for yourself. If your “plan” for your and your family’s safety is to come to my place, you’re wrong. I spent a lot of money doing all these things. I have had several difficult times with my family because of all the prepping I’m doing; I could have easily done what you did, which is just not prepare because your family didn’t want to.

    When you show up, I’ll ask you to leave. When you don’t, I’ll point a gun in your face. If you refuse to leave, or want to start a fight, I will shoot you. You are a threat to me.

    Re-read Executive Order 13603, our Gov’t is gonna try, Lord help all of us.

    1. Why should I spend my time, money, and stress just so you can waltz into my place and live happily ever after? I’m a nice guy, but – really? – I’m going to spend my time, disposable income, and domestic tranquility just so you can have a leisurely life and more material comforts pre-Collapse while I don’t? Why would you think I will sacrifice enormous amounts of my time and money so you can enjoy yourself, living off of my foresight, hard work, and sacrifice?
      You had years of time and very clear warnings to get ready. But you didn’t.

      WHAT HE SAID!!!
      My car is almost 16 years old!! You all have new cars.

      1. JJ
        Every single person on MSB has “NEW” stuff, me included. it’s not about that, it’s all about the “LIFESTYLE” we have all chosen. We all chose a way of life that “fit” our mindsets. Ive live this life style my whole life, not knowing, it was gonna shape me into the MAN I am today. I don’t regret for one second this choice.

        1. Totally missed the point..new car isn’t the issue…only when new car payment is responsible for non-prepping for an emergency.

  12. To all the god people here that will help those in need.

    We have been warned for a week or more about a possible hurricane Dorian hitting Florida. What do you say the the people that did nothing to prepare and even suggest that they did not see it coming as serious as it might be. They will be at wally world looking for bottle water as the storm hits.

    So, the power goes out and within a day they are at your place looking for help/food/water.

    I am a believer in sharing only if the others can put up their 50% as well, be it food, water, security, medical aid, … I’m done being a sucker to other’s stupid human nature.

  13. Good article to think upon and good comments, from everyone. Everyone will have their own ways of ‘dealing’.
    One thing I thought of is, if it’s a few days or maybe a week type of problem, those you may help then will remember you for when the real Shtf. Will your OPSEC be exposed? How will that turn out?
    I don’t mind helping neighbors, when in need. It’s the one’s that take advantage in relatively good times and are pizzed at you because you once said, ‘nope, can’t help you at this time’ and know they would gladly turn you in for a gooberments handout.
    And some in my area are family and I put them in the same category.,…
    Ken made a good food for thought article. Choose your decisions wisely

  14. – ‘When the neighbors’ kids get hungry’; around here, feral pigs in the 150 to 200# range are all too common. Might be the best thing for people to get a little hungry. We have more of them than deer. Set up a kid with a good deer rifle, and most families would be able to eat. It might not be what they prefer, but…
    That’s one reason I keep more slugs than birdshot around, and I wouldn’t mind sharing a box of five with a hungry family. No slug barrel? I can lend you a hacksaw, if you need. You’ll just need to use it here, if you don’t mind. Just bring the barrel over.
    – Papa S.

    1. – That box of five would only be at first. That’s probably a year’s worth of ammunition for putting pork on the table. Might be a little bit scarcer/more expensive later.
      – Papa

    2. Papa Smurf:
      Your idea of a hog for the neighbors BUT one must take into the lack of knowledge to process that 200# hog and not kill themselves by eating tanted meat from a hog they shot 3 weeks ago…..
      Just food for thought.

      1. – NRP,
        If they want help, it’s available. If you need to be shown, I’ll show you. It will cost you some meat, though. Same deal I offered young GI’s almost 40 years ago for a “survival exercise” where they gave alternate pairs of kids either a rabbit (a dutch) or a chicken (Rhode Island Red) on the hoof, as it were. I ate pretty well that couple of weeks. (Only tool they had was a demolition knife; Camillus Mod 1760) Only thing was, I wouldn’t catch it for you if you turned it loose.
        – Papa

        1. – BTW, I had a male rabbit. I traded him for a hen and had several eggs after I built a twig cage. The sergeant finally told me I needed to kill it, though. Kept her about a week. Fed her grasshoppers and whatever she could scratch up through the floor of the cage. He laughed at me for being “too smart for my own good”.
          – Papa

  15. As others have stated, we drive older cars, live within our means, tend to a garden, can during the summer and put back for when times may not be so good. We don’t judge those that choose to spend their time and money on cars, leisure and vacations but when things go south, don’t expect us to feed you especially when you’ve had the same opportunity to prepare but chose not to. The story of the ant and the grasshopper was taught for a reason and those that understand will prepare and those that ignore it will starve.

    1. What would Jesus do? Whom do you think caused your suffering in the first place? If you find yourself in peril, you were always destined to be so…by divine plan.

      1. From the Bible:
        1 Timothy 5:8

        But if anyone does not provide for his relatives, and especially for members of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.
        ‘Nuff said.

        1. JJ there is a lot more to that story:

          2nd Thessalonians 3:10 if they do not work they do not eat.

          Plenty others that require believers to provide for themselves as well as earn a living.

          Even the early church had sluggards that tried to leech of the work of others.

          If they are willing to work for me I can find a meal for them.

  16. The question is when do friends become frenemy?
    When does cooperation become competition?
    When does compassion become a bad thing?
    Reminds me of an old song.

    On her way to work one morning
    Down the path along side the lake
    A tender hearted woman saw a poor half frozen snake
    His pretty colored skin had been all frosted with the dew
    “Poor thing, ” she cried, “I’ll take you in and I’ll take care of you”
    “Take me in tender woman
    Take me in, for heaven’s sake
    Take me in, tender woman, ” sighed the snake
    She wrapped him up all cozy in a comforter of silk
    And laid him by her fireside with some honey and some milk
    She hurried home from work that night and soon as she arrived
    She found that pretty snake she’d taken to had been revived
    “Take me in, tender woman
    Take me in, for heaven’s sake
    Take me in, tender woman, ” sighed the snake
    She clutched him to her bosom, “You’re so beautiful, ” she cried
    “But if I hadn’t brought you in by now you might have died”
    She stroked his pretty skin again and kissed and held him tight
    Instead of saying thanks, the snake gave her a vicious bite
    “Take me in, tender woman
    Take me in, for heaven’s sake
    Take me in, tender woman, ” sighed the snake
    “I saved you, ” cried the woman
    “And you’ve bitten me, but why?
    You know your bite is poisonous and now I’m going to die”
    “Oh shut up, silly woman, ” said the reptile with a grin
    “You knew damn well I was a snake before you took me in
    “Take me in, tender woman
    Take me in, for heaven’s sake
    Take me in, tender woman, ” sighed the snake

  17. IF you know the power is down due to weather, your actions should be directed toward aiding those in need as best you may. If the power is out due to EMP, or the Sun spewing at us, go dark, silent and lethal…at once.

  18. very few think about what would life be like in a large city when the power has gone out for good and i live in a fairly large city which is why we would bug out to a friends place we have talked about what we would do if something like this where to ever happen as far as gasoline goes why not use a hand crank pump ? or a battery power pump well that is untill all tanks have been drained that is after that im not sure what could be done i guess we would be back horses and buggies or walking everyplace i do know it would be VERY UGLY and deadly it from what i have read 3/4 of the population of this country would die in 6 to 8 months not a nice thought but probable

  19. Kevin a good thought however in a large city I doubt the lack of gasoline is going to be the biggest hazard.

    3 days with out safe water you are dead or very close to it. No power no safe water aside from stored water. Cities have very little reserve in clean H2O. Some Towns different story.

    Depending on the weather the hazard of Fire will be very high given how many think candles are good for lights and homemade cooking-heating devices as they burn their furniture like they had to in Bosnia. No power, no water pressure except for some water towers and angry people making it dangerous for Fire Department to try to fight the fires. City fires in fairly recent history were REALLY BAD.

    All this assumes that the violence of others doesn’t get you first.

    Old Remus has it right “Stay away from crowds”.

    The big problem to the “Bugging Out” shows up every Hurricane as folks are trying to hope their way through this potential disaster. Thus huge traffic jams with folks running out of fuel trying to escape.

    How do you know it’s not a simple power outage that happens to affect the local radio-TV stations? How to you convince your family it’s time to abandon ship and flee to the countryside before EVERYBODY else already jammed up the roads trying.

    It’s a tough situation to plan for. Happily MSB has some useful articles for your reading about it.

    1. You will know because the media has not scared you to death about the weather before power goes bye-bye. You will know because your car will not start and your cell phone is dark and unresponsive. You will know because most of the really nice generators will not start, while your cheapest ones might. You will know when you notice the aircraft falling from the sky and you do not see any planes or Coast Guard helicopters.

      You will know because many of the power transformers on your neighborhood poles have exploded…and caught fire, just as the power vanishes. You will know when no fire trucks arrive to put out those transformer fires…which may then drip down the pole to catch various other things on fire, too. I have seen these type of transformer fires…

      You will know when your solar power fails, too…as well as your UPS system.

      What you may not know is who caused the EMP and if there is now a state of war, how extensive this new war is…or how it is being conducted. You may not know if some nuclear reactor is having problems and is venting, or spewing, all sorts of nice things all over the place upwind of you…or a dozen of them…or a hundred of them…including nuclear reactors having nothing to do with civil power generation. You may not know if the enemy has followed up the EMP with directed attacks upon the CONUS, or even if an enemy airborne division has landed in the next town.

      What you may assume is everyone is basically toast.

      1. Ision from what I’ve read there is plenty of non-EMP cyber attacks that can cause a lot of the grid down damage we fear. No EMP caused transformer explosions or house fires required but lethal to some huge number of Americans in pretty short order. Indeed I understand some determined folks could cause enough physical damage to the grid to effect the same results with out giving the Government an good idea just who caused the event.

        Plainsmedic if your thinking about Government Solar Panels you might think a lot of other folks are also thinking the same thing. That and from my casual examination of more than a few roadside solar set ups (taking a potty break etc.) they are not all the same voltage and such. A lot of different solar panels some 12 volt, some 24 volt etc. The required solar controllers (as Ision points out likely destroyed controllers if EMP) needed are different based on basic voltage of that panel. Indeed some solar panels have micro-inverters built in making their output being sine wave 110 volts AC but again EMP would toast them I suspect.

        Probably better not to go out Solar Panel shopping when SHTF, too many crazies out there for casual shopping friend. Currently solar panels and basic controllers is pretty cheap if you think of the effects of not having any long term electricity after Grid Down. Right now I am enjoying the value of less than 80 watts of power giving me a nice box fan cooling.

    2. yup all good points but thats WHY i have looked for SIDE STREETS BACK ROADS ANY WAY out of this city that ARE NOT MAJOR ROAD WAYS and planed how when and where to get out so hopefully im ahead of this crap when shit happens

      https://modernsurvivalblog.com/survival-skills/the-best-route-to-bug-out-or-get-back-home/

      and i have a very good shotgun with a fair amount of ammo which in a bug out situation would be in the front seat loaded and have 100s of 00 buckshot right there with it hopefully that will be enough and i hope and pray to god i NEVER have to use it on a human EVER

      1. shotguns are for INSIDE the house. in a grid-down, outside, it will be worthless. anybody with a battle rifle will kill you from over 100 yards away.

        1. Depends on terrain.
          At this place, you can see about 200 feet until thick fir and pine trees obstruct vision. And I know if a detector goes off, and an assault is coming inside that perimeter, I can hit them with #2 buckshot. Maybe even several well placed shots from my large mag 10-22 LR.
          But, almost anybody can be sniped by a trained and determined hunter.

        2. While a rifle is better at distance I’ve taken deer from PB out to 100 with slugs often. My in-laws in Illinois can’t use rifle so their shotguns are scoped and rifled and not to be underestimated out to 200.
          Turkey, geese and coyote are now taken with 50+yds shots with very tight patterns with good loads and proper chokes.
          Never underestimate

        3. “shotguns are for the INSIDE the house, in a grid down, outside, it will be worthless.” Anybody with scatter gun experience knows this is far from true. Anyone that is prepared has a shotgun in their preps. It’s just a given.

  20. Ision,
    There are answers to most of the problems you listed. Ham radio, spare controllers and inverters in faraday. I can put out a small fire, and so can you. I don’t expect my transformer will burn but once. Ham can provide answers to many of your questions. Ya don’t even have to talk, just listen. You might know how to repair your genny, if ya look at it ahead of time, (parts).

    Woodgas is an option. No where near as good as gasoline/diesel, but an option. I wish I knew more about steam engines, but I don’t. Do ya know where “government” solar panels are? If you’ll take note, there are many panels used for many things. If I was convinced it was an emp/cme would I take ownership of government solar panels? Maybe, probably, hell ya!

    I’ll bet, if a guy were to stack the brush from wood cutting, directly under a utility pole holding a solar panel, and persuade it to fall in a specific direction, the panel, could well survive the fall. Just a thought, as I’d never do that.

    Then, there’s the chance of a second or third emp. How long do ya wait to bring out the back-ups. If you are wrong, you’re no better off than if you hadn’t prepared at all.

    Good points Ision. I’m sure we both hope it never happens.

  21. When anything happens it is always local.

    When nothing happens it is always local.

    Operational security doesn’t really matter as far as your neighborhood local goes. All of your neighbors already know everything as others have stated. And they have probably told all of their friends and family.

    Past the 20-mile local doesn’t really matter. Nobody is going to seek you out at that distance.

    At the end of the day every day the only things you care about are water, food, health, and keeping all of those. The rest will fall into line as you try to manage those… and after 3-4 days you probably won’t have time for anything more than that anyway.

  22. Hello there, this is Sandismom, finally was able to move. And discovered that the little community I live in now reminds me of Little house or the Waltons. Everybody knows each other and really goes all out to help the newcomer.
    there is only around 90 people who live here. I don’t think there will be any problem when HARD TIMES come. If it is in the winter, no one will be able to come up the mountain. And all have guns, that includes the women too. Most have gardens, 1 lady knows how to pick mushrooms in the woods, and few women know how to can food. I think all men are hunters & some women do too.
    Everybody shares with everybody. I’ve never seen this in my life.
    I feel safe here

    1. Sandismom
      Whoohoo!
      You are amongst us!
      Good to hear!
      You probably don’t know me, but I thought I’d beat the old-timer’s who have been here a while.
      Seen your name through the years.
      As they say, welcome home!

    2. Sandismom/Honey — Welcome back. Make sure you get some lessons from all those knowledgeable folks – guns/shooting/hunting/gardening/etc…Sounds like you have a golden opportunity to brush up on skills. I am sure they will appreciate what you have to offer in trade.

    3. Sandismom/Honey

      So good to hear from you again, and to see that you feel safe. Sounds like a wonderful community to be part of.

    4. – Sandismom,
      Welcome back, it’s good to see you! So glad you found a spot, and it sounds like it’s a forever home! Now just make friends and do as you would be done by, as Momma used to say.
      – Papa S.

  23. Well, Hurricane Rita was surely an eye opener for me. I didn’t get the worst of it. We have people living further outten the woods than me that didn’t have power for 2 full weeks. So when Hurricane Ike came along we were all much better prepared. It also made me identify my sorry neighbors and my good neighbors.

  24. Welcome back Sandismom!

    Great to see you posting again and it sounds like you are much happier in your new situation.

    Good luck and good fortune in your new community.

  25. looks like this thread has been silent a while.. New here. kind of a lurker i guess. Anyway the thread above got me thinking about a dream my wife told me about 30 years ago when we got married…

    In her dream, we were living in a small house, with a pole-building that was setup with a large shop on one side and a canning kitchen with stoves, some large mixers and pans on the other side. The building sat on top of a hill with Forrest at its back and a field/road leading up to it.

    She was looking out the window and watched as a horde of people made their way up the road to the house. hundreds of sickly, ashen grey faces and skin with ragged clothing. she was afraid that they would get us sick and she was panicking, trying to figure out what to do. She turned to leave and a little sickly looking girl came in asking for something to eat, anything.

    The little girl’s father came in shortly after her, apologizing and picked his daughter up and was struggling to carry her out. kind of broke her heart and she started to try and figure out what to make, and she woke up, trying to figure out what to make. cream of mushroom soup was what she awoke saying over and over.

    Anyway, just had me thinking about it, between that and everything else that has been going on lately, I’m near Ground zero here in WA.

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