About 38 Percent Chance SHTF Will Happen While You Are At Work

You probably spend about 38 percent of your life at work, along with the typical commute. Assuming that you’re not retired.

You spend 29 percent of your time sleeping, if you sleep 7 hours a night.

33 percent of your time you’re doing other things, at home, etc..

 So, if a SHTF event were to occur, there might be a ~38% chance that you will be at work.

For preparedness sake, this is a significant statistic. Here’s what I mean…

Preparedness For If The Balloon Goes Up While At Work

 Don’t ignore preparedness while at your work place. You might be at work if and when “it” happens.

One of the most effective ways that you can prep for this is by having adequate kit/supplies in your vehicle (assuming that you drive to work). Your vehicle will be able to hold a significant or at least adequate amount of supplies and gear of your choosing.

If you don’t commute by way of your own vehicle, it will be even more important to supply yourself at the workplace and your every-day-carry.

As is the case for most tangible preparedness choices, you’re looking at the basics first. Like water and food. You’re at work. So there’s technically shelter. Maybe the power is out. Perhaps a flashlight. It’s part of my EDC on my keychain (I use this one).

However your mission will be to get home (typically). So that means a bag (to carry your supplies which will help you get there if you have to hoof it). If your vehicle is operational and the roads are passable, great. You will probably have little problem, at least if you ‘get out of dodge’ quickly enough.

However, I haven’t defined the SHTF event. And I’m not going to. But I do hope that you will at least think about it. The “what if”. Define it yourself for different circumstances. Let that guide you as to what you might find tangibly helpful.

A Few Thoughts On Supplies For This Scenario

Walking shoes or hiking boots. Comfortable appropriate footwear in case you have to walk a great distance. That’s easy to keep in your vehicle somewhere.

Here’s a bonus… got a bicycle or folding bike? Though certainly a challenge to keep with you. Maybe it’ll work for you. Just saying.

Are you always wearing appropriate seasonal outerwear when you go to work during the winter? People go from their heated homes to their heated cars to their heated workplace. The right gear might be overlooked…

Got a desk at work? Or a personal space, a locker, other? Why not use one of the drawers for emergency supplies. Like a bunch of CLIF Bars for quick food, for example.

The CLIF Bar Might Be The Best Energy Food Bar For Survival Kit

Keep several water bottles in there too. Is there a First Aid Kit there at work? Workplace buildings can get real dark if the power goes out. I consider a flashlight a must have too.

A change of clothes might be good – depending on your normal work attire.

From time to time I go through my truck and adjust what I keep in there for preparedness. You should too! Think about it in the context of being at work. Maybe you’ll need to hunker down there for awhile (as opposed to immediately hoofing it back home). Maybe that will cause you to adjust your supplies.

Re-evaluate what you have and make adjustments accordingly.

While those of you who are preparedness-minded probably have a decent supply of various preps at home, the point here is not to neglect your workplace. Especially since you spend so much time there.

What else?

Continue reading: Survival Gear For Preparedness | What You Need And Why


  1. I guess that the same is true for we retired folks, the “S” could hit the fan when we are shopping or at church. As usual Mr. Ken, good stuff!

  2. Thank you Ken. It is always good to review what we have set up and see if everything is still working and able to be consumed if needed. And to always have winter gear available when you live in a cold climate. I still remember the idiots that got out of their disabled van on a snowy, below freezing night and walked to the local restaurant in shorts and sandals. We asked if they would like a ride and they said no thank you. I guess we looked too scary. LOL

    I am currently down in Florida again helping my dad, but this time I drove. Always makes me feel better when I have my safety kit. I found myself thinking about which direction to head if things got bad while on the trip. I seem to be evaluating where I am at and what I would need to do a lot while traveling. Can you tell I would prefer to stay home where I know we could better manage things? Oh well…we cannot stop living our lives.

    1. DAMed, If you were stranded down south without motorized transportation (EMP strike), stay off of I81 as you head north towards home!!! Get to the Appalachian Trail …. you don’t have to stay completely on trail, but walk to the west or east (just in case).

      Sometimes, having the topo maps or park trail maps in your personal stash can be a big benefit.

  3. My work is only 1.5 miles from home. That’s a reasonable walk even for an old fart like me, but DW couldn’t make it that far. The town where most of our Dr. appointments and stores is about 20 miles. We keep an emergency pack in each vehicle that has extra cloths, blankets, water, tools, first aid kit and fire starters. In my truck I also keep an extra box of ammo and a better selection of tools.

  4. An interesting comment from a person that has experienced societal collapse

    “take it from Fernando Ferfal Aguirre, who survived the economic collapse in Argentina. In his book, “Surviving the Economic Collapse”, he described geographic areas as like organisms dying; where the extremities perish first. Aguirre identifies the urban areas as the safer places to work, trade, and live; with the rural areas as targets for roving gangs to raid and set up camp out of the reach of city services, police, and fire departments.”

    Makes me want to reconsider my need for a bunker and a six month subterranean holiday. Increasing my “chance the SHTF” will hid while I am at home – the hermit.

    I still believe we are experiencing death by a thousand cuts and the frog will not perish for about 8 to 10 more years.

    1. I agree with your timeline, I am just hoping the decline last long enough that I won’t be around for the “hot” part.

    2. I didn’t read the book but one possible big difference between the events in Argentina and a collapse in the US would be that there is a large percentage of folks in the rural areas here that are armed. That could really deter those roving bands is if they encounter armed resistance every one or two houses they try to raid. Just my thoughts. I could be wrong.

    3. INprepper the rural folks of Argentina ARE armed pretty well. And yes they do defend themselves IF Not Taken by Surprise. Yes the raiders DO take losses IF they fail to sneak up when folks are in the fields working and OR take Hostages to “Barter” with.

      BUT it seems worthwhile to them even “profitable” to continue to raid.

      BTW Homes in Argentina are generally well made of concrete and tile roofs. So compared to typical American homes almost FIREPROOF fortresses. Our stick built homes are too easily shot to bits (nothing to stop a bullet there) and set afire.

      The problem seems to be it’s a Family Unit WORKING their Ranches VS a Raider Team spying on them until they see a weakness or pattern to exploit. Not enough manpower to maintain security 24 hours a day AND do the needed work of survival. Nobody wants to abandon their own ranches to form a larger work force at one ranch.

      Singles, pairs and even small families are always vulnerable to Teams. Fortified Overwatch fighting positions and an designated marksman might give the Raiding Gangs pause. But you’d have to be GOOD to defuse a Hostage situation with 308.

      Food for thought. Home is good during SHTF but you have to think about security 24-07

  5. Since winter is upon us, I just finished reorganizing my truck with the appropriate items. And I always have water and a stash of cliff bars. Also like one called “Clean.” (It’s nice and crispy). I’m not so worried about getting home from town (about 10 miles), but I am really worried that our ‘community’ of like-minded neighbors is imploding. People are fighting with each other, our neighbors don’t like that we cleaned up our property of overgrown brush, and they stopped talking to us over it! It’s crazy. A few have died, some moved away and no new neighbors as of yet. Sheesh. Anyway, it is really making me wonder if we should stay here on our homestead. And after 6 years of work turning it into a nice little farm. Egads. I can hardly sleep at night. Sorry to ramble, but I know I can get home. Just don’t know to what could be happening here with these neighbors.

    1. DJ5280,

      Many folks refer to “their group”, speaking of like minded individuals who work, train, and prepare for future uncertainties. I applaud their efforts. You point out something that I caution everyone to take note of. When things go seriously south, relationships will be tested…….severely.

      When adult men and women come together for a common goal, in good times, in “normal” times, promises will be made………to be kept in a future time or event. I’ve found over the years that attitudes and goals shift drastically when adverse conditions hit. Folks priorities can change in an instant. Pledges and promises take back seat to what appears expedient at the moment.

      What I’m saying is that everyone should have a plan, or do their prepping, with the understanding that you may be facing what comes, all by your lonesome. Hopefully “like minded folks”, banding together, united in purpose, will stick to their commitment. Don’t risk your future on someone else’s promise.

      1. Thanks Dennis. And if things can go so wrong with neighbors in good times, I shudder to think what they may be like in bad times. We sure had a nice group going, but it just takes the one neighbor to destroy it all, I guess. We now just sort of do our own thing and leave them be. Even after the wife came over to our fence and killed all my (5 year old) grapes with Roundup. And laughed about it. (We replanted elsewhere this summer). Sigh. Thank God we have family here also, and more friends and neighbors in our area that we can depend on in the future.

        And Ken, maybe we should all be more cautious of our surroundings as we DO get home? Maybe do some checking around before we rush in to our place. What do you think? I know I’ll be cautious.

        1. Why would anyone come to your property and deliberately kill off your grapes?

          Then, laugh?

          Wait until they go to the movies then burn everything they have to the ground.

          1. They live next door. I had planted these grapes when we first fenced our property (before this guy married this wife). Always shared our eggs, grapes, veggies, fruit, etc. Even honey from our hives. Then they got angry we began to clean up the brush areas of our property. They came completely unglued over it. Seriously! They want everything ‘overgrown’ around them. It’s crazy. Anyway, Nah. No fire. Can’t stoop to their level. High road for me. We just leave them alone. But I do have concerns that we no longer have ‘community’ around us because of them. They are destroying it, not just with us either. I have stressed over this so much, but now like Dennis said we will just prepare to go it alone or with our family members and some good friends. We all live within a few miles of each other.

            So, if the SHTF and I have to hoof it home, it’s not getting home I worry about. I will still cautiously approach our homestead. Ken I apologize if you feel this is getting off-topic.

          2. What you should do is put a round through one of their windows when they are not home. Not from your side of the house though. Do it from the woods. Then do it again is a couple of months to a different window. I know someone who did this under a similar situation. The people moved with-in three months of the second round. Just to give them food for thought.

          3. Lonely Peanut I would NOT suggest “putting a round through when they are not at home”. Or for that matter burning their place down.

            Aside from the possibility someone might see you doing it (Game Cameras anybody?) and then your in real trouble, there is the problem of making sure NO Body is home. Maybe a visiting relative that you may not have noticed coming in?

            Is stupidly best answered by violence? Is destroyed grapes worth risking a felony conviction over? Bullets like uncontrolled fires are something best not carelessly set on their way as they are beyond control once fired.

            Goodness I would judge it LUCKY I knew how wacko my neighbors were BEFORE SHTF. One of the ways I judge a family’s honor is loaning them something I can afford to lose. If they cannot be trusted with a small loan then I will not be trusting them with important things.

            It’s the folks you THINK you know and Trust that can hurt you the worst.

            That 90% loss of life from various reasons when the Grid goes down will include this Hatfield’s and Mc Coy’s style behaviors.

          4. Lonely peanut firing a weapon into a house for any reason other than to defend yourself is just plain stupid. Just the fact that you suggest it makes me question your intelligence.

          5. Lp, m2 etc
            Putting a round through a window,
            Reckless endangering,
            = loss of ability to own firearms, 5-10 years minimum
            Joking around is one thing, but actually doing something is another, i get this myself and shouldnt joke around about any of this stuff, nobody should lest it come back to bite us in the arse,

          6. poorman
            FYI—lonely peanut was our past ‘peanut gallery’ from the old site.

            They have had a major loss in their family, so please be a little less judgmental at this time.

            Understand it may have been an off the cuff remark, but probably not meant as it was given..

          7. @AC
            My comment may have been a knee jerk reaction and I understand the pain of such a loss.
            You and I both live in an area that is anti-gun and the government in general is looking for excuses to attack the second amendment. Comments like that are a perfect example of what they can use to say ” look at these people that have guns this is why they need to be taken away “. Also who knows what crazy individual would read something like that and say hey what a good idea. That said maybe my comment was a little harsh.

        2. DJ5280, Not Ken and Not Dennis,
          I am glad you have family nearby . Being careful to shield self and property from this woman should be a top priority. a 10 ft solid fence might be helpful, along all property that borders this family. I would also let the male neighbor know no problem with him except him not controlling the vileness of his woman.If she is doing this to him, no telling what could be happening to him..f he had a bad response, ….I am afraid, i would not be as charitable as you have been with the neighbor spraying land and desired grapes/food with roundup. I would return the favor. she would have a brush pile behind her house,in every piece of shrub she wanted to keep… there are ways to do it…which are highly effective,less traceable. and slower but work the same. someone posted about the effects of borax in ground….and i have modified my laundry detergent recipe to reduce and exclude our amounts used here..

          .Anytime we leave a place and come back, whether from work and short term or from long term absence..( anything beyond our normal) we should be vigilant..Esp if the place is occupied by someone who is easily frightened, hard of hearing, disabled or is supposed to be unoccupied..People have killed loved ones because they THOUGHT they were an intruder.Intruders have waited with expectation of doing harm to those who return. In this present state of our nation teaching the children they are just an animal, play video game that highlight “killing” and then reset the game- to begin again… leaves people emotionless/dumbed down to realities of life.

          Chances of some event,..including all life changing events,(LCE) happening while we are gone from home would be increased the longer we are gone, scheduled or unscheduled… Could include…yes work,(many people are gone from home 9-13 hours each work day.) but also Dr’s events to specialists (often prolonged)Hospital stay and emergency treatment…(consider: How many people know when you get an ambulance ride?Does the call to first responders go out via radio?)

      2. Excellent point Dennis
        Over the years i have found that there are very few people i can really truly count on,
        Is why my plans usually take that into the primary consideration

    2. Of course you could always go over and spray all of their overgrown brush with round-up as well. That should clear up their area nicely.

      1. Well Lonely Peanut to keep this more on topic why would you risk losing your 38 percent chance to at Home when SHTF occurs to a crazy person?

        They sprayed Roundup ON his grapes and Laughed about it when he talked to them about it? Did I misread that?

        That puts them into the truly crazy zone of neighbor. I don’t mess with crazy people their responses cannot be predicted. Maybe their idea is to burn everything you have down as a reasonable response?

        I’d not post my response to a crazy persons actions on a public message board like MSB.

        1. Me2 and everyone, let me just say that I will not retaliate. What I have now learned about them is worth more than just “getting even.” I believe they would be the biggest threat to us if SHTF. Also, they and their friends would very shortly coalesce into the ‘roving gangs’ we’ve all imagined would develop. I’m certain of it. These people have no intention of preparing or providing for themselves. They already shoot out their own windows, especially combining drinking with target shooting. (We always take our dogs and move to the opposite end of our house on those days). Last spring we talked with them – while they still were talking to us lol – at length of the coming GSM and preparing. Instead they bought more dune buggies to go tear up each others properties. Anyway, not to moan and complain about the neighbors, not my intent. But back to the original subject….I WILL get home, even on foot. I HOPE I will get home before they ever do. I WILL approach our property cautiously. I will be carrying. As always. In fact, yesterday I had a fine day of shopping for more supplies of “inter-cranial lead injections.” Tho I hope never to have to use them.

          Blessings to all.

  6. Keeping shoes in your car all of the time might be a problem. I kept a pair of tennis shoes in mine for a year (two? don’t remember anymore), and the soles started detaching from the rest of the shoe. I could’ve used “duck” tape to hold them together if necessary, but I figured I’d share my experience. These were a good, name-brand pair of shoes that I typically wear for many years before wearing out. The glue in them just couldn’t survive the intense heat.

    I always keep a big tub of warm clothes/extra coats/blankets in the back of the truck all winter; I just put it back in last weekend.

    1. Wendy
      If the shoes are coming apart just sitting there they are poorly made period
      Im a cobbler in training

  7. Kulfarmer,
    I know that you’re correct. On a really well-made pair of shoes, everything is sewn–not glued. Most tennis shoes on the market, however, do use glue to attach at least part of the soles. These were Reeboks (if I remember correctly), and I have had identical pairs that served me many years when they lived in the house, rather than the truck. It gets hot sitting in the sun all day!

    1. Wendy
      Know exactly what you are saying, i have in the past been partial to Merrill boots and shoes, mid hikers specifically, and also surprisingly Converse, they made a nice light weight combat boot (desert type USG approved) they are not cheap, but had a pair of each separate all on their own.
      Im wondering if these manufacturers all went to a different grade of adhesive because i had pairs that held together till there was no sole left, but these came apart after a year ish.

      1. Kula, Shoe goo is a good replacement for that glue they use when soles come loose, even if they are sewed it will help maintain integrity from water. Sounds like the shoes are put together with substandard glue. The mindset is make it last less long and it has to be replaced with more of the same….and it will be until a replacement item is found .

  8. If you are caught away from home in a SHTF situation the first 12 hours will be the most critical in developing a plan, gathering any additional supplies and getting away from populated areas. Once the reality of the situation sets in, the panic will begin and the unpredictability of normally rational people will skyrocket.

    I keep a get home bag in my vehicles at all times and add more supplies the further I travel from home. An updated Atlas, firearms, ammo, extra clothes, hiking boots, flashlights with spare batteries, water and food such as Clif bars are basic essentials.

    People will be very wary of strangers so avoiding neighborhoods, farm houses, attractive areas like stores will be essential to survival so plan on spending a lot of time in the woods which will slow your progress considerably compared to walking on a paved surface. Moving at night especially if there is sufficient moonlight would most likely be better than moving during the day but the chance of tripping and injury goes up. Crossing a large pasture or field at night would be easier than walking through a thick forest or swamp.

    1. Romeo C,
      People who are at work will have the best heads up when their boss says… go home at 10 am. I would not expect that it will take anyone 12 hours to figure that out.The most distance one can cover in the first hour, definitely would give an advantage…and to do it without seeming to hurry or scurry for supplies.(as to not alert those who will be needing what you have)
      . Best know what occupies that pasture… is there a Bull or a Jack or Jenny guarding those cows? Are there mountain lions, panther, bob cat, , bear, coyote? any of these can mess up your nights travel and if need to dispatch one arises, you will be easily pin pointed. .Does this farmer/rancher move his animals around from pasture to pasture,..rotational grazing gives better use of land..knowing habits of movement could save your life when needing to cross a pasture..just one more reason to be very familiar with that route…

    2. RC, what is your opinion of avoiding roads and following the RR tracks where you need to go? At least for part of your journey?

  9. Always think about shtf when on the road in my rv. Always in a different state. But always travel to gun friendly states. I carry water, ammo, weapons, gold, silver and cash. If bad enough, can ditch the rv and try the truck alone to get home. If at home when the curtain goes, I am at my Alamo.

  10. Good point Ken
    I was at work when 9/11 happened. At that time I thought SHTF was starting. The boss desisted to close for the day. I had my EDC in the car so I filled my water bottle at the water cooler. I remember my fellow workers standing around looking at me in shock not knowing what to do. Fortunately it wasn’t TEOTWAWKI.

  11. I was making a list… checking it twice, blah.
    Almost everything ended up being for my car.
    It’s normally within about 1 mile of myself where ever I go
    but rare occasions it’s further like walking my dogs way
    out on public lands.
    So, me/car 99% of my life my supplies are within a minute to an hour’s walk.
    In my car is enough to keep me well for a solid week.
    The ghb/good bag/bob… is in the car.
    Whatever you feel like calling it today, depending
    on my situation If I have to abandon my car I take what I need and go.

    I do need to replace the spam & beans.
    checked the batteries aa/aaa added several white and yellow glowsticks.
    Plus a led lantern and snowshoes.

  12. So they want things overgrown but then use Roundup on things that look fairly overgrown? Who uses Roundup besides old people trying to push back nature anyway?

    These people are just bullies. The only thing they will likely respond to is escalation. Prove to them you’re just as crazy or irritating. Because otherwise they will think it is AOK because they got away with it.

    1. Pinky, guess what? Well, well, well. As of yesterday they planted brand new trees along our fence. Guess I know why they killed the grapes now. And I’ll let them think they got away with it. I’d rather they do things openly thinking they are getting away with something. At least I’ll know or figure things out.

      1. DJ5280,
        I have mentioned this a few times here but it bears repeating.
        It is important to get involved in your community. You get to know the good, the bad and the ugly.
        It is better you know NOW how these people are than when you’re huddled in the living room with them sharing your food and your heat.
        There are good people like you in your area I guarantee it! But like you,they probably have been dealing with people just like your neighbors. So they are being cautious too.
        I would let it slide with the neighbors. It’s better to have clueless sheep next door than a vengeful cowardly enemy looking for payback for a perceived wrong.
        They’re weak in character and discipline. 2 strikes that would keep them out of my group.
        My suggestion is you actively look for folks like yourself.
        Building a group of people to weather the storm takes work and time.
        If anyone is interested I will share how I built a cohesive group of folks…

        1. Yes, I agree with you. I added a comment above earlier about not retaliating at all. They will be more open about their intentions, I believe. I am very thankful to know NOW that should SHTF they are not to be trusted, nor their friends. Five years of building ‘community’ has totally fallen apart here. We do have trustworthy friends, and some family members (including a married son) here a few miles away. We’ll be good. But sincerely, could you write a guest article for Ken on building a cohesive group? We could all benefit I’m sure!

        2. BJH
          Your input on how you selected your cohesive group would be of interest to us.

          Most of the group we have has aged, some have passed on, recently one lost their dw. The bonding that once was, is losing its cohesiveness do to this factors.

          Although dh has limitations it does not mean we are ready to set back and let the world run over the top of us.
          There are family members which are close by, but they are hot & cold to what is happening in the world around them. Having a hard time with the concept that the world they knew is dying. They did not grow up during the time of food restrictions, stories of what life was like as kid/young adult during and after the depression in to WWII, and the Vietnam War.

          Slowly bringing them into the fold has been time consuming, not sure if they totally understand until it slaps them directly in the face. My rendition is it goes in one ear and out the other.🙄😫

        3. Bill Jenkins Horse VERY Interested in your building a cohesive team!

          And maybe if your group has any plans to incorporate new members after SHTF how you plan on orienting them and confirming their value to the group.

          After all most Castles fell from betrayal from with in instead of siege engines.

      2. DJ5280
        Depending on where that spray went, I have a feeling those trees are not going to do very well. It does contain a defoliant that will pernitrate the soil which that they put back into the ground around the root system. UN less they put in all new soil.

        Be prepared when those trees fail to thrive for them to come after you for their stupidity.
        Years of working in a garden shop with & around chemicals, and knowing that somethings take longer to breakdown in the soil.

        1. Ive used roundup for years and never had problems with re planting or selective spot spray killing unintended stuff
          Just sayin is all

          1. Kula, you probably never soaked the ground like they did to kill my grapes. They are just…I have no words for them anymore.

  13. I’ve always believed IT would happen while at work.

    When 9-11 happened there was a very brief window in which I got to the gas station, topped off, bought their last gas can too, picked up the kids from school and got back home while everyone was glued to the tv. If your into preparedness then you know when to get off the X and start moving.

    A huge snowstorm came in one year and I called the boss and said we gotta go. She balked but we left. She stayed. I got a call that night from her stating it took her 7 hrs to make 20 miles. She said she’d never not listen again. We must be better and quicker than everyone else.

    I’ve got a pull over leafy suit in my bag for full camo. I don’t wear bright colors anyway.

    I’m over 20 miles away. A lot of it will be cross country following the main power lines for safety and speed of I’m on foot.

    The bag is ready for all kinds of weather too. I doubt it will be sunny and 70 when IT happens.

  14. – Read this while I was at work. We have been covered up with strep and flu ‘B’ this year; I think I have only seen four flu ‘A’ cases in total this season.

    No time to reply while at work right now with everyone sick; did take a moment to notice that while at work, we have approximately 45 gallons (varies between 60 and twenty) of bottled water on hand, (minor problem; all in five gallon bottles) plus enough food for the eight co-workers and myself that we would not be in any shortage for at least three days. This is not counting the minor items such as cheese and crackers we keep for patients.

    Being an Urgent Care, we are of course heavily stocked with first aid and minor emergency care items. And all of that is without stepping out of our own doors to the little shopping center or the medium sized grocery we share a parking lot with. We’d be good for a couple of days, then a target, I’m afraid.

    – Papa S.

  15. Kulafarmer
    I run a commercial farm. I’ve used almost every chemical out there. Are they safe? That in a matter of opinion, but, if used carefully, and to the label, they are effective.
    I also have farmed, “Organic”, did the Seattle Farmers Markets for about 10yrs. Most people think “Organic” means SAFE. It does not, all “Organic” means or describes, is a different way of producing food. It does not mean “Safe.”
    I was allowed to use some of the most poison organic poisons in the world on my veggies. Why? Because they were “Organic.”

    1. Stand my Ground — all good points, especially “I was allowed to use some of the most poison organic poisons in the world on my veggies. Why? Because they were “Organic.””…..For about eight yrs, we ate only “certified organic”. (meat and veg). We were not healthier. In fact, after ceasing, were healthier then/still. Quite often one or more family members would take a bite, and refuse to eat, “because they could taste something”. Even the family dog, did this on several occasion, including with chicken or turkey at least three times. (I /my family had sort of felt same as the dog. No way was the meat spoiled. I had fresh cooked it etc.. But something was off.)… I took each time the meat back to the organic store and explained it must have “something” in it/fed to bird, and explained why. At first they claimed not possible. When I offered to bring my meat loving dog in from the care and they could see that he would not eat it…they quickly offered me my cash back. — we had not cleaned off the carcasses. Only had latterly a couple of bites each, and then just could eat more. – Have also had “organic free range eggs from chickens supposedly only fed organic feed…and gotten sick.

      1. Jane Foxe
        I’ve heard this same story dozens of times. People just DO NOT understand what “Organic” definition is.
        My idea of organic, is worlds apart from the business end of commercial organic farming. Just because I know so much about the real farming practice of organic farming.

  16. Hey all ,
    We haven’t really discussed the criminal element here.
    The criminals/opportunist will figure out that the bottom fell out way faster than the general population. They will act quickly.
    Most likely hit liquor stores, convenience stores and other soft targets within an hour or so. Even in bad weather especially if the cops are tied up elsewhere.
    Most will be armed too.
    As others have said…don’t hesitate. Pick your best route and get yourself home.
    I sure would not want to have to hunker down in a store or an office full of clueless people losing their minds over events that have occurred.
    Imagine if your best option is riding out an event in a Walmart with 200 less than stellar shoppers around you. I cringe at the thought…

    1. The reason I mentioned the criminal element is because of what happened today.
      The wife and I with 2 grandkids drove a little over a 100 miles away today. To go to a couple of stores to buy the kiddos their birthday presents.
      We usually travel with 2 vehicles but not today. We were in our Chevy suburban (454).
      After one of our stops the starter dragged a little while cranking up. Replaced the starter and the battery just under 8 months ago.
      Get to the next stop and I check the cables. The ground was a little loose but not bad. The battery had 13.6 volts in it when I checked with my meter. So while The wife is shopping with the kids I yank the starter to see if its binding. Looks great,reinstall it.
      Get a guy with a diesel pickup truck to jump me. Finally got it started. Got the wife and grandkids in the truck and remembered passing an interstate battery store a couple miles back. Get there right before they are closing.
      Guy checks the battery and my 8 month old 800 CCA battery was only putting out 140cold cranking amps.
      Bought a new battery and will take the other one back to where I got it.
      The area we were in was ok during the day but I would not want to be stranded there at night with 2 grandkids and the wife.
      I’m pissed at myself for breaking my own rules about being 2 deep on long trips .
      Going to wire in a second battery for the suburban and the 15 passenger van as well.
      I personally don’t ever remember having that happen to a battery.
      Having good voltage but no cranking amps.
      Anybody else have that happen?

      1. Yes. Volts doesn’t necessarily mean available amps/power.
        You might want to get a hydrometer and a battery load tester. That will let you know what’s happening inside the battery.
        Also. Good idea about adding another parallel battery. With an rv battery switch. A or B or A and B together.
        I just rediscovered a brand new rv/solar automatic battery transfer switch that monitors both batteries, and switches whenever needed. I forgot I had it stashed in the storeroom.

      2. @BJH
        Just checked on amazon. You can get a digital load tester for $33. Hydrometer for $10. And a transfer switch for $15.

        1. LITW,
          Thanks for the info.
          When I took the battery out of the back of the suburban I noticed the sides are bulging out a little. Catastrophic failure on an 8 month old battery. Not a cheapie battery either.
          Putting a redundant system in our transport vehicles. Always another project to add to the list.
          This one is a priority. Not going through that again.

      3. 13.6vdc, static is pretty hot; 12.7 is typically full SOC. If the engine had been off for awhile, and you really had 13.6, consider a failed regulator and severe overcharge of the battery. That’ll kill it exactly as you described. And your new one too.

        See what your alternator is putting out. Check the battery (carefully!), with the engine running; at idle; then 2,000 rpm or so.

        1. Tmcgyver,
          I just reread my post. It should of been 12.6 volts.
          I will take your advice and check the alternator. It’s a big one. (200 amps.) Maybe the regulator is failing.In fact, I’m going to check all the wiring to the alternator and replace the battery cables and wire to the starter when I add the dual battery switch.
          This is my go to vehicle. It’s a tank. My son has one too so his should get upgraded as well.
          Nothing worse than being far from home with vehicle issues…
          I appreciate the advice.

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