Anti-Hoarding Laws Enable The Government To Take Your Food
Can the government take your food? Is stockpiling food illegal? You might wonder, “How much food can you legally store?” Believe it or not, there are laws on the books, right now, that would enable the government to take your food and redistribute what you have – as they see fit. If they wanted to…
Let me explain. First of all, you do know that the president has the ability to create executive orders (actions), right? Furthermore, we are seemingly always under one “state of emergency” or another (or multiple)…enabling government to do what would otherwise be seen as extraordinary things – for your safety of course.
This is simply presented as food for thought. Do I think something like this could happen here? Well, logically, yes it could. But do I believe that it ever will? Depends on our future, which is certainly enveloped in uncertainty. Food shortages? That’s for you to contemplate.
Consider the “what if”. Should particular triggering circumstances come to pass, your government may choose to enforce their legal authority (either already on the books, or new executive orders) to take (some or most of?) the food you have, beyond which they may deem as “hoarding”. And/or make it illegal to cross a threshold of what they consider “hoarding”.
The Dollar In Big Trouble Will Lead To Crazy Expensive Food and Shortages
The dollar will lose (is losing) it’s standing as “the” world reserve currency. It’s called dollar hegemony. This is no joke. This is the only reason the US has been able to print unfathomable trillions of debt since the Bretton-Woods-II agreement. This, and how foreign oil purchases must be made in dollars, have enabled the house of cards.
However, things are happening fast. Russia just recently backed their ruble with gold. Russia, China, and India are now apparently trading within their own currencies (outside the dollar) for food, energy, and other commodity resources. This, and much more, like the worlds largest fertilizer producer no longer supplying the west. This will result in far fewer crops, and crop shortages – which is beyond the scope here.
Suffice it to say that this and other rapidly developing current events will continue to devalue the dollar. As a result, prices for everything continue to skyrocket. Bottom line, increasing very high prices, and food shortages around the world. Yes, here too.
Vilify Those Who Have Prepared To Soften Justification
In this day and age of non-critical-thinkers (and non-thinkers), it’s pretty easy for the government to manipulate opinion and demonize / vilify any group of their choosing (with the help of their big-tech and controlled media, of course). Just look at what’s happened these recent years, for example. Several very large groups of people within society have been vilified in order to serve various agendas. But I digress… Yes, it can happen.
There may come a time when they may choose to demonize those who have stored extra food (e.g. preparedness-minded normal people). The sheeple (those who may find themselves short of food for various coming reasons) will jump right on board and start shouting with the mainstream… “Hoarders!”, “Selfish Hoarders!” Even though much or most of this food may have been grown in their own gardens, harvested from their own livestock, or procured well before any food crisis… But that won’t matter.
Could it happen? Why do I bring this up today?
Well, actually I first wrote this article (below) back during 2016. It was triggered by an executive order by then President Obama (portion transcribed below). But today, I am bringing this up due to current events and likely future events. And I believe they are coming at us for sure. These events may spiral into portions of societal chaos which may lead to government taking actions. That is, the type of actions that may harm those who have prepared themselves with significant supplies of food to feed themselves and their family. Limits. Restrictions. Rationing. Redistribution?
Can The Government Take Your Food?
So, if you’ve stored a lot of food (because that makes sense to do!), can or will the government take your food if they think you have too much? Or will they restrict what you can have to whatever it is that they decide? I don’t know if they will or not. But I do know they will do whatever it takes to protect themselves. And if people can’t afford their food (badly affecting the poor first), will the people demand food rationing, ban food “hoarding”, and demand redistribution so that they can “get some”? Yes, that sounds like it could happen… Will it come to that? I don’t know. Maybe…
Note: In the context of this article, “hoarding” is often (unfortunately) misconstrued by the mainstream. Whereas common sense preparedness by stocking up with extra food is perfectly reasonable. Such as a deep food pantry, food storage beyond just a few weeks. Extra consumable supplies that you’ve stored, things like that… Practical common sense preparedness.
So here we go… the original article post.
How can government actually take away your stored food?
Right now, today, if you’re someone who has prepared for the worst by storing a stockpile of food — you might become a target. As crazy as it sounds…
You might have neighbors or people who know you’ve got food. Maybe they’ll rat you out. Federal, State, Local, National Guard, even the regular Military… may take your food under emergency circumstances (edit: remember what I wrote about “state of emergency” above), given the following legality described below. You’re running the risk of having everything or almost everything taken away from you to be distributed elsewhere.
Federal and/or State emergency provisions that are already on the books.
Executive Order – National Defense Resources Preparedness
(Obama) March, 2012.
This order delegates authorities and addresses national defense resource policies and programs under the Defense Production Act of 1950 (excerpted below).
Some of the Act is seemingly innocuous to the subject at hand. However, as it relates to the Defense Production Act of 1950 and the survival of government, you be the judge. Keep reading…
I’ve excerpted section 801 (definitions) whereby it relates to the “General Functions” (of the Act) which reads:
“Executive departments and agencies (agencies) responsible for plans and programs relating to national defense (as defined in section 801(j) of this order), or for resources and services needed to support such plans and programs, shall:
(a) identify requirements for the full spectrum of emergencies, including essential military and civilian demand;
Sec. 801. Definitions. In addition to the definitions in section 702 of the Act, 50 U.S.C. App. 2152, the following definitions apply throughout this order:
(a) “Civil transportation” —
– includes movement of persons and property by all modes of transportation in interstate, intrastate, or foreign commerce within the United States, its territories and possessions, and the District of Columbia, and related public storage and warehousing, ports, services, equipment and facilities, such as transportation carrier shop and repair facilities.
– also shall include direction, control, and coordination of civil transportation capacity regardless of ownership.
– shall not include transportation owned or controlled by the Department of Defense, use of petroleum and gas pipelines, and coal slurry pipelines used only to supply energy production facilities directly.
(b) “Energy” means all forms of energy including petroleum, gas (both natural and manufactured), electricity, solid fuels (including all forms of coal, coke, coal chemicals, coal liquification, and coal gasification), solar, wind, other types of renewable energy, atomic energy, and the production, conservation, use, control, and distribution (including pipelines) of all of these forms of energy.
(c) “Farm equipment” means equipment, machinery, and repair parts manufactured for use on farms in connection with the production or preparation for market use of food resources.
(d) “Fertilizer” means any product or combination of products that contain one or more of the elements nitrogen, phosphorus, and potassium for use as a plant nutrient.
(e) “Food resources” means all commodities and products, (simple, mixed, or compound), or complements to such commodities or products, that are capable of being ingested by either human beings or animals, irrespective of other uses to which such commodities or products may be put, at all stages of processing from the raw commodity to the products thereof in vendible form for human or animal consumption. “Food resources” also means potable water packaged in commercially marketable containers, all starches, sugars, vegetable and animal or marine fats and oils, seed, cotton, hemp, and flax fiber, but does not mean any such material after it loses its identity as an agricultural commodity or agricultural product.
(f) “Food resource facilities” means plants, machinery, vehicles (including on farm), and other facilities required for the production, processing, distribution, and storage (including cold storage) of food resources, and for the domestic distribution of farm equipment and fertilizer (excluding transportation thereof).
(g) “Functions” include powers, duties, authority, responsibilities, and discretion.
(h) “Head of each agency engaged in procurement for the national defense” means the heads of the Departments of State, Justice, the Interior, and Homeland Security, the Office of the Director of National Intelligence, the Central Intelligence Agency, the National Aeronautics and Space Administration, the General Services Administration, and all other agencies with authority delegated under section 201 of this order.
(i) “Health resources” means drugs, biological products, medical devices, materials, facilities, health supplies, services and equipment required to diagnose, mitigate or prevent the impairment of, improve, treat, cure, or restore the physical or mental health conditions of the population.
(j) “National defense” means programs for military and energy production or construction, military or critical infrastructure assistance to any foreign nation, homeland security, stockpiling, space, and any directly related activity. Such term includes emergency preparedness activities conducted pursuant to title VI of the Robert T. Stafford Disaster Relief and Emergency Assistance Act, 42 U.S.C. 5195 et seq., and critical infrastructure protection and restoration.
(k) “Offsets” means compensation practices required as a condition of purchase in either government to government or commercial sales of defense articles and/or defense services as defined by the Arms Export Control Act, 22 U.S.C. 2751 et seq., and the International Traffic in Arms Regulations, 22 C.F.R. 120.1 130.17.
(l) “Special priorities assistance” means action by resource departments to assist with expediting deliveries, placing rated orders, locating suppliers, resolving production or delivery conflicts between various rated orders, addressing problems that arise in the fulfillment of a rated order or other action authorized by a delegated agency, and determining the validity of rated orders.
(m) “Strategic and critical materials” means materials (including energy) that (1) would be needed to supply the military, industrial, and essential civilian needs of the United States during a national emergency, and (2) are not found or produced in the United States in sufficient quantities to meet such need and are vulnerable to the termination or reduction of the availability of the material.
(n) “Water resources” means all usable water, from all sources, within the jurisdiction of the United States, that can be managed, controlled, and allocated to meet emergency requirements, except “water resources” does not include usable water that qualifies as “food resources.”
There’s also this…
1950 War and National Defense Defense Production Act
Go directly to section 2072.
2010 US Code
Title 50 – WAR AND NATIONAL DEFENSE
TITLE 50 – APPENDIX-WAR AND NATIONAL DEFENSE
DEFENSE PRODUCTION ACT OF 1950
Sec. 2072 – Hoarding of designated scarce materials
In order to prevent hoarding, no person shall accumulate:
In order to prevent hoarding, no person shall accumulate:
(1) in excess of the reasonable demands of business, personal, or home consumption, or
(2) for the purpose of resale at prices in excess of prevailing market prices, materials which have been designated by the President as scarce materials or materials the supply of which would be threatened by such accumulation.
The President shall order published in the Federal Register, and in such other manner as he may deem appropriate, every designation of materials the accumulation of which is unlawful and any withdrawal of such designation.
In making such designations the President may prescribe such conditions with respect to the accumulation of materials in excess of the reasonable demands of business, personal, or home consumption as he deems necessary to carry out the objectives of this Act [sections 2061 to 2170, 2171, and 2172 of this Appendix]. This section shall not be construed to limit the authority contained in sections 101 and 704 of this Act [sections 2071 and 2154 of this Appendix].
The point is, it is clear that the President can decree that having more than (fill in the blank) of food supply (or whatever else) is “in excess of the reasonable demands of business, personal, or home consumption”.
Under what circumstances could this be decreed?
Under a “State Of Emergency” or Martial Law.
I’ll list the pertinent points of Martial Law here:
In strict dictionary terms, martial law is the suspension of civil authority and the imposition of military authority. The military authority under the command of the President will themselves act as the police, as the courts, as the legislature.
What Would Happen Under Martial Law?
- U.S. Constitution would be suspended
- Suspension of habeas corpus, civil rights, civil law, freedom of the press, assembly, speech
- Curfews enforced on the people
- Troops in the streets for enforcement
- Checkpoints would be set up for control
- Ability to hold a person without charge
- Potential arrest of anyone who is a ‘suspect’
- Imprisonment without representation or due process
- Potential house to house confiscation of firearms, ammunition, food supplies (see above)
While you might think that a declaration of Martial Law would never happen in the United States (it already has – Lincoln – Civil War), the laws are already on the books just waiting for a proclamation by the President.
Can you think of any ‘triggers’ that would set this train in motion? I sure can…
If you’re a preparedness-minded person who may have a deep food pantry and other such supplies, your risk of confiscation exists. Dependent upon where you live (e.g. population-dense regions), your proximity to military installations, the extent and depth of the ‘circumstance’ itself, and whether or not anyone else already knows about your supply (potential to be ratted out).
How can I avoid government taking my food and supplies?
First and foremost, always keep your mouth shut. OPSEC. Operational Security. Loose lips sink ships. If anyone already knows that you’re a (((GASP!))) ‘prepper’, then simply downplay what you have. You might indicate that you only have a little extra (versus saying many months or more of food storage!).
For example if it ever comes up in conversation that you have ‘stuff’, then seize that opportunity to downplay it – deflate what they think you have. It’s sad to even have to discuss this – but it is today’s unfortunate reality.
Don’t put all your eggs in one basket. This means that you might consider spreading around your storage. A little here, a little there. Less obvious. It’s sad to think about this, but it is a potential reality under extreme circumstances. So maybe keep some off site somewhere.
‘If’ you’re home is ever searched, then they will find it. Unless you have very cleverly and effectively hidden your ‘stuff’, it will be discovered. You might consider storing a cache of supplies in another location. Use your imagination. Again, it seems weird having to discuss such things, but it will be a serious consideration for some of you who may be closer to a ‘ground zero’…whatever that is.
Don’t let all your hard efforts go to forcible ‘charity’ (as opposed to that of your free will). While forced redistribution is a form of communism, don’t let yourself be fooled into thinking that it won’t ever happen…
[ Read: Hoarding versus Prepping ]
Tucker: We may not have enough food soon…
Executive orders are legally enforceable only in Washington DC and US territories. NOT the individual States.
Does it matter. Think about it. Anything can happen. Why question it. Just do it. Common sense.
You make a good point for spreading out your preps and going to lengths to hide it all. They can’t take it if they can’t find it. They will have a hard time finding it all if it is broken up into a myriad of small (5 gallon bucket) parcels buried apart from each other. You can then say to the government without lying, ” No Mr. Government Man, I do not have any great amount of food close at hand.” ( you don’t have to tell him that you’d have to dig it up to get your hands on it)
I didn’t see any definition of reasonable in the legal verbage.
Officer: Do you have food in excess of reasonable demand for home consumption?
Me: No sir I do not have an unreasonable amount.
I think they will decide what is reasonable when they come to take the food
i guess it depends on where you live. there is just not enough nat guard, army or whatever to come through our area and do that.
the LEO’s in our area, the few that we have , would not even try. they are like us.
really, it just wouldn’t happen here. houses are so few and far between, would they travel 20 miles for 3 cans of beans? i don’t think so. they will hit the major population areas.
You nailed it. What is the ratio of LEO’S and Military personnel to average citizens? Maybe 1 to 1000? Maybe more? Does everyone think every govt clerk and bean counter will be enlisted to come snoop out everyone’s “hoarded” food? If it does happen, it will be in big metro areas. Only. Rural areas? NFW. Our LEOs and State National guard units are brothers and sisters, and they know better. That said, my heart and gut tell me lean times are a’ comin’. God be with us all.
Minerjim, Did an article about that but it was moved over to the other site and disappeared. About 2 million military – all branches, active, reserve, and national guard. About 1 million LEOs – federal, state, local, tribal. So about 1:100. Know what? Every one of them already has a full-time job that by definition is mission-critical. Think military doctors or pilots or logistics guys are gonna pick up arms and go door-to-door? Bet not. Every boss is going to resist using his staff on such a venture. With the moves to defund and release, most LEOs are ridiculously overworked already. If any uniforms showed up to “gather” I would immediately suspect they were like Saruman’s evil minions in the Shire – up to no good just to benefit themselves. I’m still waiting for someone to follow up Biden’s warning about food shortages with advice to grow one’s own.
The rate of attrition will be monumental, who really believes there will be compliance across the board.
What do they call it when they cap their own brass giving unconstitutional orders?
If you pay for your food stuff with a credit card it’s easy to track. Cash only and no grocery store rewards usage.
you think the cop’s like you lol
I have made this comment before: our town has 1800 people. If I have a year of meals for my dh and myself, that is 2000 meals. That would provide the town with one meal.
People who will contribute a few cans of soup or stew really don’t make any difference.
Funny thing, I was just this week thinking about this subject. In the city particularly when food is short and people are running around scrounging what they can and yours neighbours see you’re not going crazy logic would say you have a better food supply than they do. At this point if you practised OPSEC or not they will be at your door. This goes for people in rural locations too. The only real solution is to cache the bulk of your extra food and don’t really don’t see any good alternative. It’s a real pain as not easy but might save your life. If it’s in your home or out buildings they will find it particularly if govn. thugs have a knowledgeable carpenter with them that understands building construction. Anything that that looks out of the ordinary will get broken into and inspected. This goes for rural locations as well.
I am currently looking for plastic food quality barrels with removable lids held on with a clamp to bury some in different locations NOT on my property. As for locations I’m looking at city parks that have big flower beds, on public lands or even cemetery for midnight burial. Even a rain barrel that’s fake might work. Think outside the box for good ideas and locations. Just wipe everything down to remove finger prints so can’t be tracked back to you if found on public land. But it will all have to done soon as time is running out fast!
If you use a grocery store ‘rewards card’ they already have a good idea of what you have.
Pay with cash and leave the rewards card in your wallet at least some of the time.
Avoid using the rewards card if/when buying magazines and the like. What you read is a goldmine for a profiler.
Isn’t that the primary role of the .g o v?
They take what they want.
I dislike citizens nosing around my property, let alone an agency at my door stoop demanding that I voluntarily hand over this or that.
Martial law/EO or not….
and I’m not the only one that holds this type of bitterness.
The only type of Greater Good, suggestion, I have, is to leave us the ~\¿* alone.
I never use a reward card for anything. Anywhere.
OMG , not my rice a roni.
Some of the stickers/signs and such in the U Line catalog might be of help. The ones I like are Bio Hazard, inhalation hazard, infectious substance, poison, PG III with skull and cross bones, toxic, and one with the tree water and dead fish which could be put by a well. These probably would not stop guard but might make locals think. ?
I doubt it will come in useful, as a joke some years ago I bought a thousand foot roll of red bio hazard ribbon 4″ wide.
Never wrapped my friends car as I had planned so I still have it.
If there’s a collapse around the time of another pandemic it may be useful but unlikely those circumstances coincide.
if they have limits, pay in cash and go back twice or go to other stores in your areas. as rural as we are we have a wally world and three independent local grocers within 15 miles of us, and an independent meat market that sources meat locally. i’s not hard guys if you try, geees.
some time ago DW was at the Vowels market in our area and they had chicken CHEAP, limit 20lbs. she went in 3 times.
cash is still king here and it’s not traceable.
When that day comes i will burn the whole place to the ground with me in it.
Will not cave, will not run, if i cant have the fruits of my labor nobody can.
This i swear before God
I may not have much, but what I do have,
earned(slaved), bought and paid(and taxed) for,
ain’t free for anybodys taking.
Ive had people tell me i should want to help my community when things are bad,
Well where the fork was the community when i was having trouble, i dont remember them helping me,,,
Yea, nothing gets nothing
Suicide is no out. You may go to a worse world afterward.
Hell does not exist. It is an invention of fear to control the population back when Europeans “appropriated” christianity as a means of societal control.
IF that is what you think, and I believe otherwise….I have nothing to loose and you have everything to loose….Just sayin’
won’t go down easy
Everyone seems to be zeroed in on the “what if” the government began confiscating individual families’ food stocks. I’m curious to hear how folks would react if the federal government came into your town, commandeered all the food stores, and started rationing out food to the citizens…would you line up to get your share?
Not a “gotcha” question…but…if you would accept the “free stuff” taken from a business…how would that be reconciled with your anger at the thought of having your own stuff taken?
Yes, this is a hypothetical…just for provoking thought.
me, and mine would stay in the little hole we have created. nothing is free, it always comes with a catch.
out of sight and out of mind would be my motto.
Nope, i want nothing from those turds, rather starve
You’ll never starve where you are at. You’ll just grab your fishing gear and head to the ocean. I hear those Huma-Huma-Nuka-Nuka-Apu-Aa taste great.
I get your point,
But haven’t they already started doing that with purchase limitations on most food items?
Is this individual store or g o v protocol?
As far as any ‘free food’…..
I don’t have an EBT card.
I don’t qualify.
Not an illegal, nor a Demicrap.
Can’t say…would think that purchase limits we are seeing are store imposed…but also have no doubts that retailers like Wally World have intimate ties and coordination with the government folks.
Dennis years ago, I read where Wally World has a contract w/FEMA. Wally World will become the distribution point for food, water, and meds in a certain area when the time comes.
as far as me and mine…stay away from crowds!
Now that you posted what you did about possible .gu v integration w/grocers.
In the back if my mind, I have thought of this, but now you have made a good point.
The FWTB comes home after hitting a well known grocery. Shelves bare, but made to look full, just one type of cheese, sharp chedder, nothing else. Dairy products scarce, etc.
Reports of the local WW same.
Now, we travel in the opposite direction to a family owned grocer. They may have two, three stores, in their chain, in the surrounding communities.
Well stocked. Decently priced. Meats are there and affordable. Full dairy. Sales on this or that. No limits.
Maybe in time this will change, but I find it quite peculiar.
It would be interesting to hit our Amish stores to see what they have/haven’t for food availability.
We’d stay on our mountain which is far away from town and try to mind our own business. I don’t want anything from them and don’t want them taking anything from me.
Just as a thought, wouldn’t not being in line be a heads up to the People-in-Charge that “Oh, here’s a family who don’t need the food? Maybe we need to find out why?” Unless you are ready to defend your position regardless, maybe it would be better to go and get the handouts, just for OPSEC? At least for the first couple of weeks, just to see what follows up?
Sorry, I just have a nasty suspicious mind.
– Papa S.
After Hurricane Ivan, FEMA was handing out MRE’s, Ice, Tarps, water and some of my coworkers decided to go down to the FEMA site and get some “free stuff”. They asked me if I wanted to go and I just said no that I would rather do without since nothing is “free”.
Well they ended up standing in line with a bunch of “gimme dats” while the dregs of society were hanging around the fringes looking for an easy mark to rob when they left. They came back empty handed and said the wait time was ridiculous, people were yelling and complaining and they were not comfortable having to park and leave their vehicles two blocks away with no police expect at the FEMA site.
AVOID CROWDS AND PEOPLE YOU DON’T KNOW PERSONALLY!
Romeo Charlie/scout, I have personally done this as an experiment a few years back. I bought used oversized clothing at a thrift store…
I didn’t shave for a couple days. I put a little bit of my wife’s blush makeup under my eyes. I put on the oversized clothing and went to visit some people I knew. Everyone of them asked how I was doing cuz I looked gaunt and from appearances I had lost quite alot of weight. I told them I had been really sick but was getting better. No one doubted what I said. My point being, let people see what they need/want to see in you. You want to look(at least in public) that you are suffering right along with them. That’s part of being grey…
a good idea, blend in. the grey man approach.
the, “don’t come to my house because i’m just as hungry as you” thing.
it would maybe throw off the gov. or desperate people away from your home.
Papa Smurf and Romeo Charlie
I kinda wonder about the whole blending in thing so folks don’t target you as having supplies. I’d thought it might be a good idea to be seen in line for some of the handouts, but if the situation is as RC describes, it doesn’t sound like it’d be worth it because of the danger.
When I posed the question, I had no real answer in my mind except holding to my own moral code. Normally, I would see accepting “free” food taken from someone else or any entity by force, and then being handed out, as being wrong…as would most folks here. But…this scenario would not be “normal times”…and as such, would our moral objections still stand?
As you point out…would refusal on moral grounds mark your own family as a target? Could be…but, if someone saw you accepting that handout and knew you were well supplied already…would that not make you a target also?
Maybe the question made some folks think, if so, that is good.
I personally don’t believe the government would go house to house confiscating anything…ain’t no way better to cause an immediately descent into chaos and guerrilla warfare…unless that’s what they want.
If you didn’t line up for your share, people would wonder why, so you have to be grey man and blend in.
I remember years ago of a woman accusing us (my wife and I ) of hoarding, we had two gardens, one really large one and another that was a quite a bit smaller. This woman told us of all the hungry people out there that needed food, when we/ I asked if she could use some garden produce, she answered yes. I then told her to come out in the morning dressed in grubby clothes to help us in the gardens. She never showed up, never came around to help.
Well, anyone miss the elephant here?
These “officials” don’t want to be watching their backs constantly.
Food/resource confiscation could only come about after but possibly during a gun confiscation.
So many have guns but locating the food will be by way of a snitch line.
They can’t hit everyone but that’s unnecessary as a snitch/reward line will be optimal and be the easiest option for local Gov.
Then get info on other “hoarders” from the recently arrested however necessary.
This would give them the excuse for overwhelming force, the freedom to take everything they want and “justification under law” by men in black to hide who they are.
I can imaging so much fallout from that situation including vigilante justice hunting parties later on to even the score.
I get your point and agree. If a few govt “redistribution officials” and even a few “snitches” were to drop dead from acute lead poisoning, it would really put the skids on govt confiscation of stored food stuffs by citizens. NOT that I condone or agree with this response mind you, but if history is any teacher…….
The following is an article from KOTTKE.ORG…most will remember this from history, but for those who don’t…..
“In the early 1930s, desiring the bountiful wheat harvests of its farmlands to sell to Europe and wanting to subjugate its people, Soviet dictator Joseph Stalin carried out a genocide in Ukraine that killed millions and hid it behind the guise of food shortages. It’s known as the Holodomor.
In Ukraine, it’s become known as “the Holodomor,” meaning “death by starvation.” It was a genocide carried out by a dictator who wanted to keep Ukraine under his control and who would do anything to keep it covered up for decades.
In the 1930s, Soviet leaders under Joseph Stalin engineered a famine that killed millions as they sought to consolidate agricultural power. In Ukraine, they used additional force as they sought to clamp down on a burgeoning Ukrainian national identity. There, at least 4 million died. As hunger spread among residents, Stalin spearheaded a disinformation campaign to hide the truth from other Soviet citizens and the world. So many Ukrainians died that officials had to send people to resettle the area, setting off demographic shifts that last to this day.”
it was known as the Holodomor, a combination of the Ukrainian words for “starvation” and “to inflict death”—by one estimate claimed the lives of 3.9 million people, about 13 percent of the population. And, unlike other famines in history caused by blight or drought, this was caused when a dictator wanted both to replace Ukraine’s small farms with state-run collectives and punish independence-minded Ukrainians who posed a threat to his totalitarian authority. The Ukrainian famine was a clear case of a man-made famine, much like we are seeing now.
Right you are…I too believe this is an engineered food shortage and that throwing open our borders bringing in more mouths to feed is intentional in order to worsen our situation….reckon what effect the Ukraine war will have on the world’s food production/supply? How will Europe feed its own citizens plus the refugees?
Just had a laugh with my wife that struck me as how it might fit into this conversation….
She baked a batch of blueberry muffins last night…through the evening till this morning only one muffin survived. It had remained untouched all day.
We were both in the kitchen when she asked me if I was going to eat it…I told her “Ain’t no way I’ll take the last one…it’s like everyone sitting at the breakfast table staring at the last biscuit…nobody dares to take it…they know when they reach for it, they’ll get four forks in the back of their hand”
“The point is, it is clear that the President can decree that having more than (fill in the blank) of food supply ….”.
1950 War and National Defense Defense Production Act
… section 2072.
In order to prevent hoarding, no person shall accumulate:
(1) in excess of the reasonable demands ….”
” ….President may prescribe such conditions with respect to the accumulation of”
key word here is “accumulation”, not “having”.
they way I read it it allows the government to limit the accumulation after the declared emergency.
That’s nothing more than rationing.
If you already have it, meaning you’ve properly prepared, it doesn’t mean they can just come take what you have… unless you accumulated it during the declared emergency.
….anyway, would like to see them try.
Doesn’t matter what the words say. What matters is what they SAY the words say, and what they think they can get away with.
Bingo! Remember Bill Clinton asking them to define what “is” is. Most of these politicians and bureaucrats are lawyers who are as crooked as a snake and twice as poisonous.
RC now, now, please stop insulting the snake, you’ll give them a bad name.
Lauren, is anyone in government following the laws anymore? Seems like they just do whatever they want these days.
You missed the news article during the time frame of 1905, I do believe. It has been scrubbed from the net as I have been searching for it to back up this information. I have a printed copy in my ancestry files stored off sight.
A naval officer and his wife ‘using’ their own monies set aside food storage to assist their community. Why one would ask, that region which they resided had been struck by hurricanes leaving the citizenry without food for weeks before new shipments would arrive. The officer and his wife thought it was the only right thing to do, make sure that those survived did not go without food.
He was charged with hording food supplies by the US. Navy.
Found it with detail searching. The date is 1918 May 30th New York Times, Dr. Nash and his wife were charged with hording to fore stall food shortages
Your neighbors, the government, your family or looters…it doesn’t matter who is after your food stores. Best be prepared to defend against them. The looters will take anything of value to include your stores. I believe our government will be the worst. They have bigger numbers and more fire power.
God save us if that happens.
They also have names addresses and families, be a shame for anything to go awry
Nobody is immune
Hey, I’m just following the government’s own recommendation from their website ready.gov: “Remember that not everyone can afford to respond by stocking up on necessities. For those who can afford it, making essential purchases, and slowly building up supplies in advance will allow for longer time periods between shopping trips…”
I’m trying to be a responsible citizen.
Haha – good one… I wonder if they still only recommend a 3 day supply?!
How much food does FEMA recommend?
Food. FEMA recommends storing two weeks of food for every family member. The food should be non-perishable, and easily storable.
Some pages still recommend 3 days.
That’s all I could find, I’m sure it varies amongst gov sites.
Well there ya have it, we eat a lot and have a large family, they just didnt make it home yet,,,,
I’ve wondered how they would view home canned food. There’s so many regulations concerning home canning and how to properly process it, that they wouldn’t be able to verify if it was truly safe. Idk how they justify it as hoarding for that matter. Would they leave it? Or, would they confiscate and destroy home canned food for your own good? All that work! Ugh.
If dates on home canned and bulk storage were no more than a colour code with no reference available would they risk it !
Ken, Legally, the plain reading of a law prevails. What you’ve quoted indicates that AFTER the President has designated certain supplies as scarce or threatened THEN no one can accumulate them. Given the practices of this current administration, once items were declared as such, I think the guv would order vendors to police this via rationing at point of sale. Alternatively, I would expect the guv to declare a “grocery holiday”, shut down all sales everywhere, and reopen only after EBT-style ration cards have been distributed to all. By then it might be too late given the fondness those in the big cities seem to have for communicating their displeasure by burning stuff down. Politically, I wouldn’t expect this until after the mid-terms. But when we move out of the “slowly” into the “all at once” point of this ongoing collapse all bets are off. It’s bad news in the grocery biz these days. Prep while you can.
Read an article the other day that said the Selective Service, in the event of a draft, would allow conscientious objectors to join FEMA to avoid military service. This would appeal a huge section of the 18-25 year old population. I can see FEMA quickly filling its ranks with young, eager social justice warriors recruited from college campuses with promises of eliminating their student debt, giving them executive power to determine how and to who food is distributed equitably and doing their part in righting past wrongs.
Businesses such as Walmart and large grocery chains would fall in line for fear of being targeted for riots or closure for noncompliance just as they did with the mask mandates and would have these FEMA “food distribution monitors” in stores observing and enforcing rationing restrictions. Of course the “underserved” (those on EBT) would be allowed extra rationing as they have been discriminated against in the past it’s only fair to give them more as reparations and too prevent riots.
Quickly fill the ranks is understating that.
They would be overflowing with thousands of those objectors in every county.
So what happens when the fema ranks are overfull?
I think the rest will be forced into service.
There’s nothing like a lefty with a cause and authority to force it, nothing good there.
Put them to the task of finding other peoples possessions/food and we have harassment, persecutions? hate, threats.. the lefty norm.
U.S. Senator Joni Ernst just told Fox Business that our planet is facing “impending famine”…
And went on to say, “About 40 to 45 percent of the production in Ukraine will be decreased this year because of the war and the scarcity of supplies that go into the planting season. And we know that Ukraine also supports about 400 million people around the world with its food products. So we do see that we have an impending famine. And I’ve heard from David Beasley at the World Food Bank that he’s now going to have to take from the hungry to feed the starving.”
the four horsemen of the apocalypse. plague- check, war- check. famine-check.
think about it guys.
then a pale horse who’s name is death….and hades followed him.
yup, thank you
Thanks for the report. I pray for us all. May God protect us in this time of trouble. What ever they are here after, I will help them find the here after.
Papa smurf mentioned lining up for food as OPSEC. I’ve thought about this in the past. Might be a good move? Not an option for us, very rural. They’ll get around to everyone eventually. Mountain tops or rural plains, when folks are hungry ……
I don’t normally “carry” around home. Tried out a new belt/holster combination the other day. It would take a little getting used to, but at some point, it will be the norm. I’m sure it’s ingrained muscle memory for retired LEO. I wore the combo for 4-5 hours. Walking around, doing chores, etc. Felt a little ridiculous, but kept wearing it anyway. Open carry isn’t something I’ve done a lot of, other than hunting situations. It will be a SAD day. That SAD day is coming.
Question for you. You said they will get around to searching everyone for food eventually. How do you figure that? At some point the effort and risk of sending a bunch of goons to every remote property to search far outweighs the potential gains. Sure they will hit the big food centers and food plants, even local silos and grain storage. But go-to each small farm and root around in the barns, out buildings, and chicken coops to find Ma’s hidden stash of home canned stew? I’m guessing there won’t be too much of that going on. ‘Specially if those young millennial recruits think that someone has got crossbars on them 1/2 the time. A Country Boy will survive. ( can’t say much about the city slickers though).
The “they” I’m talking about is the hungry and desperate. Wherever we are, someone will be asking or scheming to take. Realistically, the guv won’t likely wander out this far. Noting what’s apparently happening in Ukraine, individual soldiers or groups of soldiers may do anything. These folks may or may not be potential assets/allies.
I don’t know how this will shake out. I’d rather be where I am than in some city. Who knows?
Like you, we are very rural and up on a mountain and that in itself (out of the way place) could present an opportunity to someone up to no good, so both my wife I carry when we’re out especially down at the garden which is 200 yards from the house. I keep a 12ga pump in the garage next to my work bench so I don’t get caught empty handed as I have had a curious black bear walk up to the doors when I was sharpening a saw. Spooked me as much as him and he took off but it made me think it could have easily been a bad guy.
(Obviously, if I didn’t make it clear, you are leaving these LIDDED until and unless the need arises to remove the lids…I’m not suggesting you live like this!)
Ohh, an excellent idea.
I was just gonna spread barnyard feces around my approaches. Trod around the stalls with my deep lugged boots.
Haul up a few deer carcasses for yard decorations.
Spread someofdat barnyard muck all over our clothes and skin.
Have the mange ridden dogs meet and greet at the door
and call it good.
… but does it go *far enough*….?
I think it pretty much hits the limit on disgusting.
It also wouldn’t stop me from asking for help, you can only carry the act so far.
An annoying gesture would be when they are at your door asking or demanding, you literally jam your hand down your pants.. overalls, scratch your balls for a few seconds then pull out a toothpick and go at your teeth with some comment about them not being polite.
Ah, just thinking how deep you can go into character with that scenario.
Hey Plainsmedic, consider Clipdraw I have found it’s a lot less of a bother than a side holster just makes my right leg dermatologist go numb if I’m driving for long.
The clipdraw that is
The clipdraw that is makes my right thigh dermatome go numb
IMHO, it won’t be government coming for your food when people get hungry, it will be gangs, rioting mobs, no police will come to help you, the police will just stand around and watch the looting only protecting their own and government buildings. Didn’t we all already watch this on the news recently when they broke into private stores carrying out TVs and designer gym shoes while innocent bystanders got beat up and left lying unconscious in the streets? When mobs in your city going door to door ransacked grocery stores, then private citizen homes, you won’t be bringing anything stashed elsewhere home. You’ll be down at home unable to leave it, I think. I’m thinking bouncing Betty lawn ornaments and wondering who is legally required to remove dead people from front lawns.
just leave the bodies in the street. the rest will get the message.
Many nations including the US, Canada, Australia, have older farmers and not enough young farmers to take over when the elders retire. Why don’t these nations have an immigration plan to bring young to middle aged Ukrainians farmers in as immigrants to assist with farming and possibly buy agricultural land for farming in the future?
Because the WEF is trying to reduce population by every means necessary to 500k.
Passing a ‘law’ or ‘EO’ is one thing. Enforcing it is quite another. Who decides what is “reasonable”? Why, some piss ant bureaucrat , of course. Some non-elected drone. It is ME who decides whats reasonable. I know what my potential needs may be. Should some government dweeb arrive to take my food, then I would say I would have no choice but to prevent that by whatever means necessary.
Another question…. where are all the resources coming from that would be needed for these jack-booted thug activities? Might they have families they would like to return to at the end of their thug day? I believe these sorts of thieving activities could only be successful if the public is disarmed. That’s not going to happen even though they might pass other unenforceable laws to disarm us. So, come and take it, if you can!
Read up on alternative uses for common household and garden chemicals,
We will NEVER be totally disarmed, perhaps just inconvenienced
Has been a long time since I participated in your forum so don’t know if I will be doing this right but my question is : Which would take precedence 2010 U.S. code title 50-War & National defense etc.—-sec. 2072-hoarding of designated scarce materials (food) or The 4th amendment to the constitution?
I haven’t received a reply to my inquiry above. Have I violated any M.S.B. policies in this post? If I did it wasn’t intentional, being totally unaware of doing it. Please advise as to what I wrote that shouldn’t have.
You have not violated any standing on the site that I am aware of. Believe I started to look at this and of course was sidelined with other chores.
When I have time I will take a look at it, but please remember I am not an attorney. Nor do I pretend to be one…… thought I would let you know.
you haven’t done anything wrong, my guess is that no one here has an answer to your question. i don’t, but we do appreciate your post’s and input.
if you read back over the articles and reply’s you’ll see that none of us here work at NASA, CalTech or MIT : )
I’ll make an attempt at your question.
Since every “lawmaker” takes an oath to support and defend the constitution, every law they pass must be assumed to not violate the constitution until challenged in court and found unconstitutional…which sorta creates a catch-22. A law cannot be challenged unless the plaintiff has been injured by that law. Until that law is invoked, and someone loses property or freedoms, no one has been harmed.
If it is, in fact, enforced…the damage will have already been done…no matter what the judicial branch finally decides.
I am not a constitutional attorney, but have had to deal with laws I personally thought to be unconstitutional on their face…normally I just refused to enforce them…officer discretion.
Hope this helps.
Myra Maynes, I have never studied law either, BUT i am almost sure that the emergency powers act would take power/precedence over every other law on the books because it is an Emergency. They will say that everything anyone has worked for and sacrificed for, because they have anything it is more than they are supposed to have.
If Martial Law is declared, the Constitution is suspended, so there won’t be a Fourth Amendment to fall back on.
Thats why we have AR platforms, standard mags and semi auto handguns,,,
THAT, is what they are for
Myra Maynes back @ ya just to state my opinion & that’s all I can claim cuz I too ain’t no constitutional lawyer either but : I don’t remember which body finalizes a bill into law but the one that can override a president’s veto needs to be by 2/3 vote. Again I could be wrong but I think it was congress. SOOO if congress deems a presidential act is contrary to the constitution, it being the ultimate law of the land, where the other zillion other laws come from congress could override him as being unconstitutional?
In the wake of Katrina, NGs went door to door confiscating firearms. Didn’t see that coming!
So what about the people who live in the rural areas that been putting up all of their crops that they grown in their homes gardens for years they have root ceilers and they can and freeze for the winter months
Well, apparently, perhaps under martial law, Executive Order, and/or a Marxist regime, ‘they’ could, in theory, try to come and take it.
could you put canned or jarred foods in some 55 gal plastic barrels. bury them on the back yard and plant some flowers on top? thinking out loud is a curse i have.
Well, I suppose that if things ever got that bad, or one were to believe things were rapidly heading that way, it may be prudent to hide some of one’s extra stash in whatever way seems do-able. Probably good to at least think about (given today’s apparent general direction). Same rules would apply… Cool, Dark, Dry.
That was basicly what happened in the Holodomor, history rhymes