Charity Food After A True SHTF Hard Collapse

knocking-on-door

Here’s something to think about… For those of you who are stocking up with extra food, or for those who have already stocked up with extra food in preparation for a time of hard societal collapse with distribution failures and severe shortages…

Have you planned for ‘extra’ food storage beyond that which you need for yourself in order to feed others than just your immediate household?


 
‘If’ there comes a time when we’re truly living under a SHTF collapse, there WILL come a time when others will come a knocking on your door.

 
Some of you may have extra food storage in order to help feed one of (or more than one of) your specific relatives, friends, or neighbors.

Some of you may keep extra food storage in order to feed someone else who may have specific ‘assets’ or talents – helping with the chores and work that will go into running a homestead – which requires ‘bodies’ to keep it all safe, etc..

Some of you may keep extra food storage to feed others simply out of ‘charity’.

 
There are risks as well as potential benefits to feeding others during a scenario of complete societal collapse and supply-chain failures.

Risks
For example after the first free meal where would that person (or persons) go for the following meal if they thought you had more. Would they tell others? Would it spiral out of control or might it result in others coming to take your food by force? How long will the human being remain civil until such time that the human being turns predator?

Rewards
There’s no doubt that some people could become valuable assets to your homestead during a time of collapse, and by feeding that person (or persons) in exchange for work – could be a ‘win-win’.

 
Many homes today are housed by two people, husband and wife. Some maybe with a few kids. How are two people going to maintain security and production around the homestead under severe collapse conditions? If you have stored ‘extra’ food beyond the immediate needs for just the two of you, will you let anyone else in so as to help with survivability? Have you thought about it?

I bring this up in order to get you thinking about the likelihood, and to decide whether or not you might store ‘extra’ food to feed others than just your household. It is a topic that we all might face ‘if’ the SHTF for real.

Another thought: If you are determined that you will NOT be feeding anyone else (other than your household), do you then believe that you will be adequately secure in your security and defense? This question is really one for yet another article, but it does directly tie in with the notion of having enough extra food to support ‘enough’ people to maintain security and production…

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145 Comments

  1. In a True SHTF event, one that may last an infinite period of time, is there truly anything that is “Extra”. Say the Grid were to go away, total collapse of civilization, wrath of God type of thing, how long would it take someone, even the most prepared and knowledgeable, to transition from comfortable couch dweller into the true Agrarian or Hunter-gatherer roles which we would need to do to provide for our families? 6 months?

    No. I say at least one or two growing seasons to get back into the swing of things and truly produce. To work out the bugs so to speak. That is in between fighting off hordes trying to steal your goods (gov’t hordes included).

    So, During that transition you will need to feed, clothe and take care of your families medical needs with your supplies right? So which of my children should go without food or medicine because someone else failed to heed the Many, many, many warning signs and prepare themselves?? Heck, Even the government tells you to stock some food/water/medicine and provides checklists!

    As the saying goes Luck favors the prepared and God helps those who help themselves. So NO, I’m sorry to say, no charity during or in the recent wake of any SHTF event.

    Once stability returns and I know where and how I am providing for my family, if I have “extra” then I will gladly help those having a more difficult time becoming stable than I am. Not solely with handouts though, this is where society has fallen. You don’t make someone stronger by simply giving handouts. Help them to provide for themselves in some way.

  2. I agree with SpudWeb. Handouts are out of the question. All you do is create a dependent class, much like what our government has created. Then when you find yourself short, these same people are likely to come after you after you refuse to offer them more food.

    1. Yes, if they know you have it and you refuse to give it, they would try, by force, to take it from you. A little kindness can become dangerous after a SHTF event.

  3. I am lucky that I live in a small town where almost 1/3 are Mormons (who store food) and where a lot of other people grow gardens and/or store food because we are so far from a supermarket.

    Lots of people know that I have a garden because I have been giving away my extra produce and because so many people can see it for themselves even though it is behind a 6′ privacy fence — my lawn boys, my sprinkler guy, the meter reader, the men who put my new roof on my back porch, the guys who work on the utility poles (when a new cable customer wants service or when the electric power goes out or when they need to trim the trees around the wires.)

    I will be relying on others to help me with things I can’t do myself (including defense) so I obviously have to share part of what I have, especially produce from my garden and other things that would spoil without electricity. People would expect it and wonder what else I was hoarding. I would quickly offer to the town and to my neighbors all my extra fresh veggies and my large cans and bottles that need to be kept cold once opened, and foods that require a lot of cooking fuel such as dried beans and brown rice. They could have my eggs, too, since they would spoil before I could use them all.

    Also I’ve discovered that I might as well give away my stored alcohol. A couple of weeks ago I decided to see if a small quantity might help me sleep. I tried 1 oz per night for two nights in a row. A few days later I became very sick with unbearable stomach pains and went to my doctor.

    She did some tests and found the problem is with my pancreas. She said, “Usually this is caused by excess alcohol, but since I know you don’t drink, we will have to do some more tests.”

    I told her about the 2 ounces. She said she had recently had a patient who didn’t usually drink but had gone out with friends and had a couple of drinks. A short time later she developed pancreatitis apparently as a result of that small amount of alcohol.

    I am still waiting for the results of the CT Scan they did yesterday “to make sure it is not a tumor.” So my alcohol is on the list of things I will give away (making me very popular for a while.)

      1. chipmunk,

        Since all I have is a couple of small bottles that I had thought might be a sleeping aid, antiseptic, or pain killer, it might be a good thing to offer it to whoever in town is trying to provide medical services during the emergency. MOST of the people in town are decent people who will try to maintain some degree of safety, medical services, community food, community water and waste management, police and fire service, and so on. We do have some mentally ill people, alcoholics, and ne’er-do-wells, but I hope the community will act to keep these people in check — at least for a while — and I hope to do my part.

    1. DaisyK

      You sum it all up, with a lot of common sense.

      re the alcohol, “She did some tests and found the problem is with my pancreas”

      That is interesting..
      I have known someone who could never (since they were a teen) have even one drink of alcohol, as they would become violently ill. Don’t recall they ever had any tests, and just assumed they has some weird genetic inability to “process” alcohol. Possibly it was pancreatic problem, too. Who knows.

      I am sorry to hear you got sick, especially so very sick. Hope you are perking up.

      1. Anon,

        Thank you. I just heard from the doctor. Although my Amaylase values are still high from the 2nd test they did yesterday, the CT scan didn’t show any tumors. Good thing because the survival rate for pancreatic tumors ranges from 14% down to 1%, depending on how soon they catch it.

        What it did show is a very bad hiatal hernia. That is not good, but it is not fatal. So now, I have to decide whether to have the surgery now, so that I will be healthy when the SHTF or stock up on antacids and pain killers in case I wait too long (until the SHTF) and surgery is no longer an option.

        But what happens if I have the surgery and am in the hospital when all hell breaks loose? The only hospital that can do the surgery is 130 miles away.

        1. DaisyK

          All interesting..

          Wonder if the alcohol (small amount it was) actually caused the raised values?…Maybe it is common for alcohol to cause this (no idea)?

          You mention “hiatal hernia”…I know nothing about these. Is it the kind of thing which possibly could be treated with antibiotics (doctors do not want to prescribe antibiotics these days.)

          Have you had other symptoms which might be attributed to this? (just curious)..

          I seem to recall you mentioning pain elsewhere(back?), wondering if it could be “referred” pain from “Hiatal Hernia”?

          1. Anon

            Hiatal hernia is when a part of the stomach intrudes through the diaphragm and comes up into the esophagus. The only cure is surgery.

            I have had heartburn for decades; this might be the cause. I dislike going to doctors, so who knows how long I have had this. I can’t find any info that this might cause back pains. I think I am just getting old and everything is falling apart at once.

          2. DaisyK

            Thank you for info.

            Got interested, and googled a few terms..will put them here in case of interest.

            “Hiatal hernia” Referred Low Back Pain
            “Hiatal hernia” Referred Back Pain
            “Hiatal hernia” Referred Pain
            “Hiatal hernia” Rib Pain
            “Hiatal hernia” Acid Reflux
            “Hiatal hernia” Reflux
            “Hiatal hernia” Numbness
            “Hiatal hernia” Fatigue
            “Hiatal hernia” Headache

            DaisyK
            Came to a site called “Cassiopaea Forum”…guess I can’t post a link, so I will copy/post an excerpt, and maybe you can find it if interested..

            “Hiatal Hernia: An Overlooked Cause of Disease

            By: Steven H. Horne

            Jack Ritchason, a naturopathic physician, corrected a health problem I must have carried since childhood.

            Observation as the American Digestive Disease Society has estimated that nearly half of all adults–some 60 million people–have a hiatal hernia.

            The Great Mimic
            Hiatal Hernia has been called the “great mimic” because it mimics many disorders. A person with this problem can get such severe pains in their chest that they think they are having a heart attack. They may think they have an over acid stomach because they will regurgitate stomach acid after they eat, or their stomach may hurt so badly they will think they have an ulcer.

            Correction

            Since a hiatal hernia is primarily a mechanical problem, the easiest and best way to correct it is mechanically. Medical doctors have attempted surgery to correct this disorder, but the results tend to be poor. Cutting into this area can further weaken it so that the hernia will return in short order. A better method is to manipulate the stomach and bring down the hernia by hand. Unfortunately, you can’t do this to yourself. You will need to find a good chiropractor, applied kinesiologist or massage therapist who understands this problems and knows how to correct it.

            Self-Adjustment

            There are some self-help adjustment techniques. They aren’t as effective as having someone else perform the adjustment, but they may help. The best one I’ve tried is to drink a pint of warm water first thing in the morning, then stand on your toes and drop suddenly to your heels several times. The warm water helps to relax the stomach and diaphragm and puts some weight in the stomach. By dropping down suddenly, the weight of the water helps to pull the stomach down. In a mild case, this might be enough to bring the hernia down.

          3. Anon,

            Interesting article. I might try that. It occurs to me that I ought to travel to a good chiropractor, anyway.(we don’t have any nearby.) Maybe he/she can fix my back as well as my stomach.

            Thanks

          4. DaisyK

            You’re welcome.

            Please let us know what the chiro thinks/how it progresses.

            Am wondering, if the person I mentioned may have similar sort of
            trouble..

          5. Not sure if I have the same condition, but when I have heart burn, which is rare, I always drink about 8 oz of milk and it goes away.

          6. Daisy K,

            I had issues with this same thing before. Even made a trip to the ER, 6 hours later, no diagnosis. I went to see my chiropractor, he did some movement tests on me and determined it was indeed a hiatal hernia. He did some super easy, non painful massaging techniques and I was loving life in 5 mins after the treatment. I couldn’t believe it!

            He even joked and said regular md’s will get it wrong 9 out of 10 times. My symptoms: heart burn, back pain, chest pain almost to the point of panic attack, acid reflux, and upper abdominal pain. When the symptoms come on, I don’t hesitate to give him a call. My advice is find a good chiropractor(maybe one who’s a little more holistic in approach) and see what happens. Best wishes!

          7. El Nene, Being Watched, Anon, and all

            It sounds like going to a chiropractor is a good idea. I will see what I can do. My insurance would cover surgery in full (except transportation to Billings and any medications; I didn’t sign up for Medicare Part D) but I would have to pay for a chiropractor, I think. I will see what I can find out.

            Thanks all.

          8. Daisyk… Elevate the head of your bed on 6″ blocks, and add pro and pre-biotics, to promote digestion and the movement of food thru your gastric tract.(reduces the pressure on the hernia).

            Sleeping on your left side may also help. Don’t eat any food for at least 3 hours before bed, and try to keep the last meal -light. I don’t remember what kind of diet you are on, but lean alkaline, and avoid gastric irritants, while in distress..I would avoid all sugars till pancreas cleared..maybe try organic lemon water in the morning when up and about.

            As for the questions of the day….we will have very limited supplies for anyone who “just appears”. Those who may come to our door may find that we are not home… depending on what the event is, and the threat level. Some of our supplies will go before us, as the place is completed. We have informed those who have money to waste that we think they should prepare if they wish to live. That we are poor and our few supplies will not be sufficient. One income to prepare for 5, already.

            We told them we are giving information that we have found and urge and encourage info and assistance to help them prepare their own supplies. Should those people appear they will get the rice that has weevils in it and has been secured with DE. edible, but requires extra prep.

          9. Just Sayin’

            Yes, I do that. My bed is elevated on 4″ blocks (more than that and I slide off); I use a couple of pillows, too. I usually sleep on my left side, but often I get up in the night and wind up sleeping in my recliner, I frequently eat yogurt and my last meal is usually around 2 pm. (I go to bed very early and get up very early as you can see; it is 2 am as I write this.)

            I have reduced by coffee to one cup in the morning and avoid spicy foods (most of the time.) Giving up coffee and spice is hard. Giving up sugar is harder. I am trying.

            Thank you for your advice. It is good to see that I am doing most of the right things. I have recently decided that too much sugar might be one of my problems, so I am really trying. One other thing I might try is extra probiotics in pill form.

            On the bright side — I have lots of coffee and sugar stored, so I will have those to give away (along with alcohol).

  4. Unfortunately, one of the lessons I learned in my international travels, is that once you extend charity to someone, it is NEVER enough!

    Once it becomes known that you are a ‘Giver’, (It only takes once!), you will then be continually hounded for more, and when you do stop giving, the recipient will then become angry and actually ‘Demand’ more.

    I’ve seen this behavior in several different countries.

    Human Nature.

    One of the best advice I was given, was to ‘turn a blind eye’ to a beggar…A true survival tactic.

    1. In this country, to those that are ‘Takers’, a Giver is known as a ‘Mark”, or a ‘Sucker’.

    2. Well said and true. The “entitled” mentality often makes people mistake Kindness for weakness. Then when you refuse they become angry, as if you owe them something because you “gave” once. Sets up a dangerous situation if they know you have it, they may try by force to take it.

  5. A tough one. My wife and I are not far enough along on the storage “curve” to be sustainable for a year or two. Like others, restarted gardening with expansion for next spring, shifting to long term storage food types, on and on…trying to obtain a wide spectrum of items needed takes time as folks well know.

    Without experience turning away someone in need (not family) it will be stressful to say no, even knowing my number on priority is to take care of my wife and immediate family. Different skill than shooting, which you can practice to gain expertise. Saying no needs to be thought out in advance, for me.

    If it gets to that point I think it will get ugly some way and quickly; emotional responses, attempts at taking, or ganging up, being tagged as the bad guy. If and when it comes to that, will just have to stiffen up and deal with saying no. Not on the top of list of things to do, but necessary to live.

    Food for help assistance is tricky, a one time helper could cause a security leak which may not be worth the effort. Immediate family, very fortunate we have the next generation that can keep quiet about personal stuff and recognize when to do this.

    One rule I live by is you never know who you are talking to, or standing next to. Sad but true, I trust no one I meet and am very slow to provide any information that is personal, keep it bland and general. Except here, but everyone is in the ether.

    Something to discuss at home and get a strategy in place. Thanks.

    1. We must consider which of our children will go hungry to take care of the insolent ones who deride us for having enough for a “bad month”.

    1. Today, I don’t have any words, I need to work that out. My first mistake is I let someone get to my door, this also needs to be tightened up.

    2. “Nothing for you here, keep moving.”… I am not claiming it would be an easy thing to do, but, like all other survival decisions, it must be done.

    3. Ever notice beggars don’t beg each other? That’s the strategy I’m looking at.

      I will go out and poke around in the rubble and stand in the lines for aid just like everyone else for a while (assuming it’s relatively safe to do so). I may score some extras but my real mission during those outings will be intel gathering and creating the image that I am just as screwed as everyone else.

      Later, with actual food production, it will be hard to conceal such efforts but by then it should become less necessary. Those who are still around will be the ones who new how to survive the initial die off. They will be the people with the skills and the right mentality.

      My assumption is the majority of them will be the ones who see the benefits of a society working together rather than an assortment of individuals in competition with each other. Security safeguards can be relaxed over time and civilization will rise again.

      1. HG#28
        That assumption could work, but think outside the box.

        You have individuals that become a pack, and that pack then starts attacking those who are stand alone with no back up. As they gain courage from the leader of the pack the more degenerates come to their group. What once was a few degenerates now becomes many, never ever assume that they will die off from starvation. They will be searching out their next meal, or perversion to inflect on those who may be down to their last crumb of food in their pantry.

    4. Here is a bowl go out by the road and pick some sorrel and dandelions bring them back to me and while you are doing that I will see what I have leftover from our meal… I think I have some biscuits, and gravy. Wash sorrel and wilt, serve gravy over the sorrel. Water will be made available, prob from barrel with filter…

  6. My Grandad would kill the coyotes that got the chickens then he would hang them on the fence, the other coyotes would see them and go somewhere else. If you know what I mean.

  7. Daisy K
    Proceed with extreme caution today’s general population think they are entitled to whatever they want if you start handing out charity liberally without anything in exchange “work, barter, etc.” the people you are trying to help will start expecting you to provide for them this is where it’s going to get ugly. You may even find yourself as a slave in your own house. Be careful my friend with the things you are blessed with.

    1. Left Coast,

      As I said, it would be “barter” of a sort. I would need someone to help me make my home more secure, i.e. putting chicken wire over my windows to (hopefully) make it more difficult for someone to throw rocks through my windows, helping me figure out my alternate heating sources, etc. I have several types of alternate heat; some of which I am not sure how to work.

      I could ask now, but I don’t want to tell people that I am prepping. Asking someone to figure out all these different types of stoves, etc. could ruin my opsec before I need to. There are a lot of things I can’t do myself, but I have friends that could help. Some of them are prepared, so I would just need to offer to give them some extra food or supplies. They would probably be asking ME what I need.

      I have a friend who is involved with town politics. One of the first things I would do is ask him if there is going to be a community soup kitchen. If so, I would ask him to contribute my extra food anonymously. That would give me brownie points with the town fathers and not destroy my opsec. That person already knows about my garden.

      And I would rely on my neighbors to help repel a hoard of rioters that came into town from Billings or someplace. I have two revolvers. That might work against a single intruder, but I can’t repel a gang all by myself. I hope that the town would seal off the three entrances into town. If not, and we were invaded, most of the people on this block are heavily armed.

      1. DaisyK

        I have some very good friends that live north west of you. I have found that there are a lot of very good, friendly, and generous people in your area. Talk to your friends that are prepared ask for there help, I’ll bet they will be delighted to help you.
        May God bless you with many good people.
        Left Coast

      2. Left Coast,

        Yes, I am lucky in that I chose to retire in an area where the people are friendly and religious — and not very many of them, either. The only problem with living here is that it gets very cold and there is not enough moisture to grow things without added water.

  8. Handouts;

    Is this not exactly what your Government is doing now with a HUGE percent of the population (handouts and freebies)? And we see how well that’s working out. Humans have become fat, lazy, and dependent on others. 95% (or more) of the people in this country live meal to meal, even the lowest of animals know to store food, build shelter and be “prepared” for what comes next.

    After a SHTF the same Government will still be in place, but now they will not be so willing to give it away mainly because there will not be enough for everyone, they will be saving “it” for themselves, correct? People will be completely blind-sided that no one is there handing out everything they need, including food/water.

    And please do not even say FEMA….. HAHAHA! What a joke they are. Remember what that acronym stands for “Federal Emergency Management Agency”. Those poor suckers are crooks right from the first word “Federal” LOLOL…. BTW how’s that water flowing at the Super Dome??? 5 days what a friggen joke those people are.

    With that said I will NOT be “giving handouts”, additionally I will not allow anyone to “know what I have”. Those that do let the cat out of the bag had best “have their affairs in order”; for those freeloaders that were “handout leaches” before will be even worse after TSHTF.

    They WILL kill you and your family for your food and supplies, after all would you not if your children were starving? Honestly I probably would. The human animal is a vicious creature, there will be no “morals” or controls when TSHTF. For those that say you will fight and drive off the masses of Zombies, Good luck with that for a long term strategy. I don’t care how well organized or armed you are it will be hard to fight off 10’s of thousands of refugees fleeing the Cities.

    We currently are a society of handouts and freebies; this will never change, after TSHTF those without will die, period. Those that try to be kind and give, will become targets and not last long, nor will their supplies, one cannot feed the world from 300 pounds of Rice and Beans.

    Sorry, just the cold hard truth.

    NRP

    1. Yes, NRP, I hear you…

      Perhaps the hardest part of a major event or scenario will be those who have not prepared… it may not even be the event itself, do you get what I am saying?

      We know our neighbors on either side, good folks, and I foresee mutual help.

      But beyond that all of us who prepare need much wisdom….

      If you are a person of faith, I encourage praying in advance for wisdom and guidance, even for your larger circle of neighbors and those who may be passing through during such an event…

      Think of all the flooding the US has had…people had and still have great needs.

      We volunteer at our local food cupboard and there are a surprising # of households who come given our local geographic area, and these are in times of relative “plenty” yet…

      Think Venezuela…society and economical collapse…
      People have great needs. Very difficult times…

      Sadly the majority of our modern society is set up to dependent on the “system”…mostly occurring over the last 100 years, where before most were mostly self-sufficient to a large degree, or at the very least able to sustain their own households to a survivable status…

      A second “sadly” is how most, at least among the people I know, do not see any concern for the present time or that their livelihood depends on the JIT commerce system.

      For those who have not “woken up” a rude awakening is coming friends….

      A prudent person sees the dangers coming and takes precautions.. Proverbs 22:3

      Peace Wisdom and Blessings to you~

  9. In response to ‘Traveler’s remarks:

    Several years ago I volunteered at a local ‘Homeless’ shelter.
    Before starting, at an Orientation lecture, I was advised not to give money to anyone under any circumstances. “You will be asked.” If I did, I then would be expected to keep on giving whenever asked, and if I then refused I would immediately be considered “selfish” for not sharing when I could obviously afford it, and would then be disliked by everyone there.

  10. I guess I’m out of the mainstream, but I’ve always been a giver. First of all, I’ll not lie and tell someone I can’t, when I can. Second of all, I’ve never seemed to be one who could out-give God, who tells me he will bless me for giving. He always has and always will. Third, I don’t guess God is going to change His promises if things go bad.

    Nope, I don’t guess I would want to live a life of lies and deceit, separated from His blessings. Ask and you’ll receive, to my ability. Trying to take by stealth or force, I’ll not tolerate.

    Always been who I am, don’t look to change when the true test comes.

    1. Also try and remember God helps those who help THEMSELVES! They should have seen the warning and help themselves by being prepared.

    2. Your attitude is noble, but Dennis, what do you tell those folks with children that share and look into the faces of their starving children because they share???

      It’s a hard one and we must rely on God’s message if it gets that bad…however,
      I Timothy 5: 8 is enlightening.

      1. I guess that everyone has certain verses or stories from the Bible that have touched them in a special way. I’ll share a couple without stating the verse and chapter (I know them, but some folks get turned off by that).

        Paraphrasing– Jesus was followed by a crowd of 5,000 people to a remote location once. His closest followers advised Him that the crowd was hungry, advising Him to tell the crowd to leave, and find food on their own (provide for themselves). Jesus asked His friends how much did they have with them, to which they replied that they only had two small fish and 5 loaves of bread. He told them to bring the supplies to Him, He looked up to heaven, then divided the food up to be distributed. Afterwards, everyone had ate until they were satisfied (not bloated, satisfied) and His helpers gathered up 12 baskets of left-overs.

        Later, a disciple who had the full benefit of His teaching, advised followers to be careful to show kindness and hospitality to strangers they run across because they just might be one of God’s messengers (Angels) in disguise.

        These are just a couple of many things I’ve come to believe as true and try to follow the intent off their teaching..

        1. Dennis,

          Yes, You are right.. we can’t out-give God. We can be taken advantage of, and we will be if we give anything,.. that is not my problem. God also has some things to say about prudence…and that whole book is on preparedness.. God’s preparing a people for His Son to come, and our preps to meet Him in the final day.

          Yes, I have “supplies for two” that we will stretch up to 5.. already. There will be no waste. Those that can will eat wild greens, and other scavenged wild foods, as it is possible… we will grow and gather meat, and vegetables in season, as well..But to advertise I have plenty, when I have no idea how long “this crisis” will last.. means I have failed to provide for my family, and that same Bible tells me that a man “who does not provide for his own is worse than an infidel”.

          My first duty is to keep mine safe and provided for,… If I can use left overs, or make another skillet of gravy and put a couple of eggs in it for protein,… to assist and feed someone passing thru, I have not lied to them, but have provided a meal (and a service, in providing and allowing them time to recover from a days travel)…they will remain outside.

          There was a time when I would provide very bountiful to people who had needs, if they came to me.(I found later,some had taken advantage..that’s on them) I have since scaled back my assistance and there is no longer a path to my door. I scaled back by telling the truth..such as….we are on a limited income, we have been sick.

          I just let them know they are not the only ones in distress… I have car breakdowns, and light bills..just like they do. And the last one I used was to refuse to go to the store because the three year old was demanding juice, and “will not drink water”. I was not making a 10 mile trip @ my expense because of a spoiled brat.I simply don’t have money to waste on people who never plan for more than a day or two. They now have a car, but it took some tough love.

    3. Having lived a Blessed life (I’m here aren’t I?) I have learned what God’s blessings are………. like being whacked up the side of the head for marrying the wrong guy who hit me there, causing me to leave him….. or getting licked to a puddle by my dogs when I come from work. I prefer the latter, but blessings can come under harsh surprises.

      1. @ Stardust

        I’m with you girl, I’ll take Blue over 99.9999% of the humans in the world. And yes there are some, very few, but some people that are good people, until the SHTF, then watch your back.

        NRP

        PS; Blue goes to work WITH me everyday… HAHAHA

        1. OK, animal lovers club: Stardust, NRP, me, others…

          If someone came to my house and said I need help feeding my dog
          would you?

          I prep for the 4 legged creatures as well, extra cat and dog food canned (we don’t have dogs) but a neighbor a mile away found a lost dog the other week and we cared for it, fed it, till will found the owner 4 hours later.

          BTW, 911 can help you if the dog has tag #s. That’s how we found the owner.

          We have food, crates, cages, dishes, leads, bedding etc for birds, cats, dogs, sheep (hey you never know when you might find a wandering sheep…don’t eat it yet, might be someone’s pet ;)

          OK, time to go visit Maple P. Finch my little rescue birdie…
          BTW we released him the other day and he came back later in the day.
          He likes to sit on my shoulder and tell me his news :)

          Chip! Chip!

          1. In a SHTF scenario, I have a limit of dogs I could handle. They and my own would be put to work for the best of their abilities. Guard work, backpacking, body heaters, hunting, and water retrieving geese and ducks. I’d teach my dogs to fish like their grandpa did. No more pampered pets.

          2. @ Shepherdess

            To answer your first question; yes telling them, “just leave your animal here and I will take care of it, since you’re not prepared to even take care of yourself and your family”.

            Yes I know, but after TSHTF it will be a harsh world for a while.

            FYI I also have a large stash for the animals in my life, lots of dog food and sugar for the Humming Birds.

            As far as Maple P. Finch, that’s is a perfect example of this article, feed em once and take care for a few days, and they just keep coming back for more… HAHAHA But he/she sounds to be working for their food, a good lookout :-) :-)

            NRP

          3. Yep, you and Stardust and others make good points. If I can summarize even one point is that consider now what are your abilities/limits in caring for others(outside your household) people(and for those inclined, pets or animals) which is what I think Ken’s goal was in posting this today…

            That is the good thing about this site, it gets us thinking-
            and learning along the way-

            Also knowing of places or food cupboards or other agencies that you can direct others to can and could be very helpful…

            Because we help at the local food cupboard, I have told friends to tell their person(s) in need to go there…

            Meanwhile time to go share a few teeny weeny bites of my scrambled eggs with Maple… after all, he does bring quite a bit of cheer around here :)

        2. Not to be a total jerk but a realist… After TSHTF Many people will see your pets as a viable food source for their personal consumption and will try to take your pets by force. Be careful and stay safe.

          1. White Cracker, when TSHTF many people will be viable food for my dogs…Seeing as I think more of my dogs than I do of most of the clueless sheep that cross my path…

          2. @Bill Jenkins Horse

            OK OK. Now you get me laughing my frigging azz off. I’m sitting here on the porch with Blue just minding my own, and you go and say that LOLOLOL

            And yes I just snorted Gin out my nose….. thanks.

            NRP

  11. I have stocked up and when SHTF, and there will be a lot of caches hidden outside, leaving 2-3 days amount of food in the house. I may be visited by my DD and boyfriend who will come a long way. I can provide if they work for their keep. That includes foraging the forest and lakes for supplemental food to stretch it out, fishing, cutting/splitting wood for heat, and getting water at the spring.

    My experiment with forest potatoes worked well, produced 5 potatoes average each plant (an eye of potato that sprouted last spring) They were disguised as weeds among the ferns and other forest plants in part shade areas. If I wanted, I could plant them everywhere along the trails, and would be a cached stash for me and my family in late summer and fall.

    If others are asking food from me, I will offer a trade of what I am eating, and have them forage with me to get it and teach them what is edible, so they may not come back for “my” food when they can get it on their own.

    Also being alone, I can’t fight off armed robbers, neighbors, strangers or government officials very well. I’ll let them take what is in the house. Most of what they find will be a few food cans, bark, sumac seeds, some weeds and leaves laying around on the counter that they won’t know what they are for. Hopefully they will think they cleaned me out and not come back.

    Winter is a desperate time for those without food. Gardens are gone, wild fruit is gone, and when SHTF in winter, people will go house to house for food. There is a trick to caching food from thieves in winter, because if you are not careful, tracks in the snow in your back yard will give your cache away when tracks only go to a spot where the snow is disturbed in that spot, and tracks come back. I have places around my firewood stack and kindling piles where I have a normal trampled path to get firewood, an obvious destination, mostly hiding the stash in plain sight.

  12. Very tough decisions/situation.

    Myself, have known folks/individuals who got a helping hand, and made something of it, not kept “asking”. Also known the “other kind”.

    I very definitely know folks, known them all my life, who can latterly sound so needy/desperate they can talk funds out of grannies, (grannies who are MUCH worse off)…very sad.

    Not at all sure, myself …how to manage this if it should happen.

  13. I’m with Dennis, always been a giver. That said, NRP and the Teacher make some vital points. So I believe I will handle the situation as Stardust describes… not doing “hand-outs”, but fair and equitable trades. AND I would limit it to only the 7 other households on our cul-de-sac. Because logistically and tactically… we will need each other for many things.

    So the druggie, mental case, HillBama and big gov supporter behind me with his backyard debris, is out of luck.

    Mr. nosy-body to the NW who peeks over fences each spring and calls the city on anyone with weeds or mis-placed trash cans… yep, he can ESAD.

    Those hillbilly white trash to the west with their collection of abused, outdoor yapping dogs, 9 different vehicles clogging the neighborhood and who burn trash in their backyard upwind of me?? Yeah…. decorum and legal liability prevent me from explaining what will happen to them… Let’s just say that once they are “gone” that property will serve well as a guard outpost.

    But the decent, work-a-day folks on my street are all good people and I account for them in my preps.

  14. Giving it some thought,
    I think one of the first steps should be to further hide your supplies and make your home/your selves/your animals if any etc, all look as poorly off as possible.

    If someone comes to your yard, looks in/comes to your door, looks in/actually gets in your house, it is no doubt best if you can appear as if you are badly off.

    This might not be so easy, especially if you have kept up repairs and so forth..but..

    Also, there are some foods that many/most don’t much like. If you can hide/disguise most supplies, and keep the “unliked foods” accessible, you can, if pressed, offer to share a bit of that, in exchange for something.

    (now I like the following, but most folks I know do not..)
    -turnips (root veg so you can store some up, etc)
    -beets
    -onions
    -sardines
    -pickled herring
    -turnip and beet jerky (seriously, that just might put a lot “off”)

    1. Turnip and beet jerky?

      Yeah, have to be really hungry to eat that. Can’t believe that there is actually such a thing.

      NRP’s post was spot on and the vast majority of people that I come into contact with already have the ‘you gotta share’ attitude.

      1. aka

        “turnip and beet jerky? Yeah, have to be really hungry to eat that. Can’t believe that there is actually such a thing.”

        Sorry, aka, was just making up something that might put folks “off”….thought that might do it..grin!

        Although, joking aside, I bet beet jerky would be pretty good. Beets are often quite sweet.

        1. Whew! ya got me.
          The last time I had anything to do with beets I was visiting my dad (about age 10) and he told my step sister/brother that I would eat them. nah. beets and spinach ……

          1. Short trip off the rails, I love pickled beets, cooked beets, OK Forest back on the rails.

          2. aka

            sigh..grin

            I do like both, but not mixed together as jerky. But seriously, something sort of gross to have on offer might be something to think on.

  15. If charity is shown, My opinion is that it should be towards family first. Then anonymously thru a church or to a hospital. If I were to give, I will use discretion in the time of day to minimize my exposure to people watching. If info about where the food comes from is leaked, you will be followed and possibly attack your location by many.

    If I hear of mass give-aways of food being provided by Govt agencies, I may consider accepting it under certain circumstances, gathered by observing the site first:

    I won’t have to receive a mark, or show my identification.

    I won’t be required to enter an enclosed building.

    My picture will not be taken, no finger printing.

    I would also be utilizing “grey man” apparel to not stand out in the crowd.

    The purpose of this is not so much for the food, but to gather info from those present about what is happening in the outside world, besides what is being told on the radio. I will never give factual info about myself. I would also gather info about those that might be the controlling forces of society and their strengths.

    1. In that sense it might be useful to keep alternate forms of ID for this kind of scenario. If they ask for ID when you didn’t realize it was going to be requested, you show a false drivers license with a false name. You’d have to think it through, but possible.

  16. I am in the same camp with Dennis and Shepherdess.

    I am careful about how I give within my community. I write a check to my local area Community Aid program at present time. As a GS-5 federal worker working in the mountains, I used to maintain several emergency food caches at several end-of-the-road locations to monitor activity in distant locations(microwave repeater stations). A wooden box with 2 cans of Pork and Beans, cheap can opener for the lost or wayward human(s). I frequently found the beans gone with a thank you note in place.

    This was a route I had to patrol about 1x/week and it was in the days that a cell phone was the size of a brick.

    I try to keep my contributions anonymous. Within the Bible it says somewhere to make contributions in order to help others – not to bring glory upon yourself. I do not believe the Bible verse calls it “operational security”.

    My outward demeanor is a grumpy old man and one would never guess that I write checks to help others. So, to NRP: “Take those Pork and Beans and Get Off My Lawn!”

  17. Isn’t there something in the Bible that says a slothful man does not prepare and suffers the consequences, but a wise man prepares and is rewarded?
    I can’t remember the exact quote, but I believe that’s the gist of it.

  18. My partner will help (most) anybody, at any time, with anything. Me, not so much, and I’ve pretty much made up my mind that, in a long term situation, the answer is “get off my lawn”. This is an issue that has caused me a lot of angst and a good issue for everyone think about.

    Are you on the same page with the rest of the family regarding this issue??

    I can see my wife going out of her way to help the neighbors and possibly blowing up our whole situation. In effect, severely affecting our chances of survival. This could be a very real risk and I don’t have an answer. Anybody in a similar situation?

    1. I’d go further, Preacher, and spell it out.

      And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

      Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

      For I was hungry, and you gave me no food: I was thirsty, and you gave me no drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.

      Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungry, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?

      Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.

  19. If you start giving away food, you will have folks camping in your yard and/or you will become known as a supplier of food, thereby creating more unwanted traffic to your home. Eventually having larger numbers knocking on your door; perhaps outnumbering and outgunning you. How could one possibly have ” too much food”? and then give it away. Living in the city would be different however.

  20. MY food and water is for MY family. Have an 16 yr old car….no smart phone….no cable or Netflix….no big TV….etc. I could afford all those luxuries if I wanted. They chose how to spend their money, just like I chose.

    CHOICES HAVE CONSEQUENCES!

  21. Please keep in mind for those who are in a more remote location,
    never venture out alone without a means of communication. Once a hard collapse takes place and available food supply is used up, and the wild game has disappeared, cannibalism will happen. It will not be the first time in history, so be prepared for it mentally!!!

    Yet another reason to bind together with trusted like minded people that are prepared with the same values of survival.

    Hope that what’s ahead of us doesn’t this bad!!

  22. I haven’t read a comment here from anyone who has EVER been in a food riot. I have. Twice.
    If there is starvation in the area and if people know you have food you will not defend it or the homestead where it is. Not with a company of marines. If you give them ALL your food, and I mean every single grain of rice They MIGHT let you and your loved ones live. More likely they will stick an ice pick in someone’s ear and ask where the rest of it is. The food riots I experienced left homeowners alone who gave up all their food. Those who trired to hold back a banana
    -or anything at all – were beaten to death on the spot.

  23. On the night of the Last Supper, Jesus said to take a traveler’s bag and money, and to sell your clothes if you don’t have a sword so that you can get one. The disciples said they had two swords among them, and he said that would be enough, and off they went to the Mount of Olives. He also said before that that if you have a lot, a lot is required from you.

    We live in a small farming community. Not all neighbors farm, but I cannot see letting my neighbor starve if I have a cow that can feed them. However, if I slaughter all my cows, I won’t have a sustainable farm for the future. Our family hopes that our neighbors will go along with our plan to close off either end of our 4-mile road and guard the entrances. Without fuel or electricity, we would need bodies to work the farms. People who worked would eat. Senior citizens, who would probably be a fountain of wisdom, would need more help than other able-bodied people. If people did not work, I would assume they had enough to eat.

    May it never come to this! (But I’m 60% positive!)

  24. Great discussion topic and there are no easy answers . Wife & I discuss this situation from time to time and do not have a ready solution to the issue .

    We live near the end of a dead end road in a rural setting . We have been nurturing relationships with 3-4 close neighbors . None are as self reliant as we are , nor as aware of upcoming SHTF scenarios . i would probably lay down 4-5 pine trees across the road and make our area very difficult to access . All neighbors have multiple firearms , that could be a two edged sword if things get real dicey , hence the relationship building .

    Providing extra food to people is an invitation to a very uncomfortable future situation . I am not comfortable with providing food to a food bank or our church for distribution . Someone somehow will know where the food came from , not a good thing for OPSEC.

    We will provide for ourselves & family first and then close/trustworthy neighbors . Beyond that is an unknown . Tough scenario and there is no easy answer to the solution .

  25. This certainly provides food for thought (pun intended). Personally, I would probably have been more generous in the past. But during the last five years northern Europe has been invaded by gypsy beggars from Romania and Bulgaria. They are outside every supermarket, every shopping mall. Always waiting for a handout, at times very aggressive.

    A saying comes to mind: “Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime.”

    However, I would never say no to my immediate family (father, siblings, children) or good friends.

    1. Mr. Viking,

      You said: “They are outside every supermarket, every shopping mall. Always waiting for a handout, at times very aggressive.”

      We have that problem too, although they aren’t typically gypsy’s; but they can be very in-your-face. My standard response is to give them the phone number to the White House and invite them to contact their president, because all I ever had to give has been taken from me and redistributed already.”

      That typically shuts them up.

      1. Ha ha! Good one!

        My father in law – when asked for “a couple of dollars” – used to reply: “Sure. You got change for a 100?”

        1. I have used reverse thinking on panhandlers before. Once I was hit up for money while in a parking lot. I quickly explained that I had just got out of jail and was broke the panhandler quickly left.

  26. Makes you want to shake everyone and say, “Why are you planting pretty green yards?”…plant food!!!! If you live on a 1/4, 1/2, or an 1 acre you can can get a fair amount of food planted. Then put up as much as you can. Hey I am including myself. I need to plant a lot more than we currently have. It is not easy stuff. Its hard work. Our tiller broke. Ants and bugs took over. We are having a battle. Our health isn’t great. Gotta keep it going somehow.

    1. Oh, you hit a nerve there. My neighbor, the one that said she’d rather die than store food(and I said, well, you will) mows every two days!!

    2. Texas Girl, We also are struggling to produce more. with small till-ed area/ limited raied beds. investigating hydroponics, aquaponics,and dutch bucket systems which require less space and less water than convenional gardening methods.. some good vids on you tube.
      We have been battling ants, just killed large fire ant bed with mule team borax/sugar, half of each. Disturb top sprinkle very liberally, maybe 1/2 cup. cover with boxlid/ old pc of plywood… anything to protect from moisture…wait 2-3 days, repeat if necessary. Non toxic mineral, natural element mined.can put in places you need to plant in without residual toxins. soil will be loose when the ants are gone… be sure to turn it well.sprinkle plain borax around.. will repel all kindsof vermin.

  27. Whew. This is one tough scenario. I’ve spent lots of time thinking this through.
    I don’t have sympathy for adults who’ve wasted their money on cars, manicures, new phones, drugs, etc. Especially strangers and beggars.

    I’ve gone to the same big box store for years. There is, regularly, a clean-shaven, hair-recently-cut, man. He’s trying to look pathetic. Holding a sign…asking for money. His partner and he take turns driving a car and handing his “homeless” friend money. They’re behavior is obviously to encourage others to hand over money. I’m prepared to deal with beggars, liars, losers, thiefs…

    However a young hardworking couple near me has just had a baby. I know they are prepared for short weather disasters, but I doubt they’re really prepared for a big one. This is not an easy decision or is there a simple answer.

    I’m going to do the best I can. I will not be able to listen to babies cry themselves to sleep or death. I hope I’m surrounded by people who will work to rebuild. I’m also hoping I will have some worth to those who are more prepared than I am and might take care of me. Luv ya’ll, Beach’n

  28. This is a thought provoking topic..

    1. How long will the crises last?
    2. How widespread is it?
    3. Is outside help coming?
    4. Is there a center for taking food to for distribution?
    5. Has law and order broken down?

    Morals

    A person on your doorstep saying that you have a moral obligation to share food can be told that ” you are on my doorstep saying ” I want what you have.” Is that moral? You want what was a lot of labour, time and money for me.

    My plan for now.

    A few people have been invited to my home when I need help with defence. For others I have prepared six hampers filled with food. Each allows for two weeks of food at 2000 calories a day and 90 grams of protein. Canned chicken, Spam, macaroni, rice, canned bread, dehydrated fruit and vegetables, oatmeal, instant coffee, powdered milk and jawbreakers because they have an indefinite shelf life and provide a sugar fix. Instructions, menu, and nutritional content is included. Each hamper cost about a hundred dollars. I wish I could do more, but food for a household for six to eight adults is a huge challenge to achieve.

    1. The outsiders are coming but until most citizens that are prepared have taken out the hungry zombies. The outsiders are called the Chinese Red Army!! This country has been sold out by those in Washington in exchange for refugee and safety. I expect the foreign troops being housed on our military bases are placed there to ensure the control our our troops when SHTF. Remember what happened in Waco, on most bases the only personel armed
      are the MPs at the gates. If anyone reads this that has a relative in the military, please run this senario by them. It might just start them thinking about how to be better prepared.

  29. haven’t read all comments, etc, so don’t know if this was addressed….

    Please remember, if you don’t take care of yourself, and those you immediately are usually responsible for, you are likely to be mowed under, and not take care of anyone.

    I just read a news report of a drought in Nova Scotia, Canada, saying thousands are without water…Then they had an interview with ONE woman, who says on her land is plentiful water. DUH… Not likely for long….

    If you have lots, keeping quiet might be the responsible thing to do…Not going on the news to tell all

  30. My prepping plan includes 2 of my neighbors who are good people and have the skills that I do not. If it gets bad, I hope to get a farm, forage, hunt system set up and can’t do it by myself. I’ll provide the plan and temporary food to get the system in place long term. Alone I can survive 6 months, with my neighbors help hopefully we can make a new normal better life.

  31. I would give them a handful of plastic shopping bags and point out the twin hills of white covering several hundreds of thousands of pounds of this year’s hard red wheat and ask them to please not come back.

  32. I would give them a handful of plastic shopping bags and point out the twin hills of white covering several hundreds of thousands of pounds of this year’s hard red wheat and ask them to please not come back. Reminds me I need to contact narlo.org and order some of their posting signs.(National Association of Rural Land Owners)

  33. Since you don’t know how long SHTF will last, there is no extra ever. Every meal you give away may be one less your family will eat.

  34. I am still struggling with this issue as I have 11 immediate family members that will be here(sons,DILs and grand children). Add my DH’s three,single sibs,the married Sib and his family that bring the number up to 22. I will not turn my one DIL’s immediate family that lives here away so add another 5. The other DIL’s family is not in the area but IF they show up they get folded in as well, 8 more. It will be all I can do to keep us fed,”watered” and safe. It’s been an uphill climb for me to put food, etc away. I am on a VERY limited budget, DH was forced to retire earlier than we expected so that has really crimped the budget.I was raised to help one another but I’m not sure I would be able to without endangering my family.

    1. If they are coming they need to be helping you stock. 35 ppl is more than a retirement income is capable of. each family needs to have an immediate needs list and a method to get things packed for as much as they can put in the vehicles to get there. You will need every hand and everyone will have to work. you will need to be the chief organizer. That will be the only way to make such a large compound work to feed, water and shelter. Someone always brings someone exra when that many are in question, because someone will “loose the memo” and forget receiving it. I would inform only the organizer of the family. stress silence.Stress your rules.!its the cost of admission.

    2. Grannyo
      Not knowing the other members of your family financials, you need to speak with them as the hierarchy of the family. You need their contributions to the shopping $$ basket, it should not all come from your income otherwise you are enabling your family. Not stating that to be harsh just realistic, as we age our financial incomes do not go up but stagnate or go down.
      If you wish them to appreciate what you have put up for them they must contribute to that goal.

      1. My sons are helping. One is near us and they have been putting things up as well and will be bringing their supplies with them. The other is out state and due to nasty divorce,child custody issues, are contributing what they can,when they can. As for the rest of the family, what they have in their homes will also be brought here. Having said that they are not “prepping” per say . We were all raised by Depression babies and have always put aside extras in case of emergencies. I do have a sibling and spouse that did a 180 about 4 years ago and are prepping as well. They will take care of the family out where they live (2 other siblings and their families). Even DH thinks I’m out there but hasn’t stopped me from doing what I can. I know after 40 some years of being together when to push and when not to push, LOL. For the second time in my life I’m scared about the future. The first was the Cuban Missile crisis but I was a kid then and that scared me and the sibs as dad was on active duty and we didn’t know till after he came home where he had been stationed.

    3. Grannyo, when I read your post, only one thing came to mnd..a fool’s errand.
      Good luck, you’ll need lots of it.

  35. RoughRider:

    Thanks for bringing up the valuable point of setting aside the breeding stock and seeds for continued sustainability. Having cattle to breed, roosters among the chickens and heirloom seeds to propagate are vitally important to make it beyond year #2 in tough times.

    This was told to me by my Grandparents who survived as farmers during the Great Depression in California. (they traded produce for meat and donated vegetables to the school cafeteria for the school lunch program way back then.)

  36. In a truly serious collapse of our economy/society, that will mean that most of the world has collapsed already more than likely (Venezuela as an example). Millions of people will die to include millions in the U.S as a result. Survival will be the “mode of operations” and normal life as we know it now will not exist.

    My plan is to say no to all but family. We have to. Otherwise we will parish. Not counting the politically connected, the folks that survive will be living in caves, bunkers, isolated locations in the mountains and heavily fortified communities throughout the country.

    My parents and my aunts and uncles (20 total) lived through the depression of the 30s to include WW-II and Korea. I learned from their experiences during those times. I can’t even imagine what they went through–it was hard, very hard I’m sure. Now, our country is much more populated and the majority of which is dependent on the Government for pretty much everything. Note: welfare, food stamps and other government programs accounts for assistance to well over 50 Million people…20% of the population. This doesn’t include millions of retirees like many of the folks contributing on this Web site.

    I suggest that if you want even a small chance of surviving, you have to be “totally” self-reliant in a rural setting like owning and working a small farm or at least a few acres to live off of. Otherwise you will more than likely die from starvation and/or related sicknesses.

  37. This is the stupidest thing I have ever heard. You talk prepping to a neighbor and they know you have stuff. You give out one plate of food, you’ll be feeding the whole community. Bull crap! Read the parable of the 10 virgins the 5 wise ones told the foolish (who asked for oil) to shove off! You’re certainly NOT obligated to take anything you have and give to ignorant folks who have been buying cars, phones, clothes, and going out to eat while you were being prudent. And now is not the time to open up the conversation. Tuff shit. They choose their lot.

    1. Mr. Potatoe Head,

      That parable is a poor one to cite for this discussion, at least if you are trying to define the the oil as possessions.

      Jesus used stories to get spiritual truths across to those having a hard time grasping what He was teaching. The wise virgins had taken the Savior’s words to heart, building a “resume” of good deeds, for the time that the savior would return to take His bride, the Church (all believers). The foolish virgins, who had heard the Savior’s same instructions before His departure, when they discovered He was returning, realized they had done none of the things He had requested in preparation for His return, and ran to the wise virgins hoping they would allow them to take credit for some of their good deeds.

      I don’t plan on having to beg folks for help building my resume of good deeds when Jesus returns. Thanks for pointing out another passage to bolster my desire to trust God, even up to Jesus’ return.

  38. tomatoes. – givers vs takers… my neighbors believe i’m dirt poor. I tell them my garden is to suppliment what i can’t afford to buy in the store. I guess its the grey man mentality post shif. I don’t drive anything fancy either.

    1. Maintaining a low profile is very smart and good luck to you and yours–live long and prosper.

  39. Busting your butt to put supplies aside for friends and family who are doing nothing to help you NOW is a fool’s errand. The best indicator of future behavior is past behavior. If 20-30 relatives are such bums that they are not providing resources or labor to help you prepare for their future needs, then you are going to get screwed in a major way. If you are prepping for them on a limited budget with no help from them fiscally or physically, then that is silliness on a colossal scale. There is always a price for admission. This family Uber alles mentality will get ALL of you dead really fast. To not REQUIRE they contribute in some way is simply perpetuating the welfare entitlement paradigm. There is NO charity in SHTF – it will ultimately get you killed and your stuff raided. Doesn’t matter if it’s your sister or a stranger. Everything has a price but life is the cheapest. Read Thomas Malthus. Jesus and his love stuff will be long gone in the rearview mirror. This new world is going to be really short on compassion if folks are to survive longterm. Kindness will be something that gets you killed.

  40. One of the first lessons – and probably the most important – that the both naive prepper and unprepared sheeple homeowners will learn ….

    DON”T INTERACT WITH THE DESPERATE SHEEPLE REFUGEES

    Very good chance that the same people that have lived off gooberment welfare their entire life – just like their previous family generations – will be among the wandering sheeple refugees …. with their hand out and a huge honking chip on their shoulder expecting and DEMANDING the usual society relief ….

    if you decide to be a SHTF Mother Teresa – hope you learn fast enough that it doesn’t get you and yours killed …

  41. My neighbor has three kids. If he came asking for food to feed them there’s no way I could say no. I’d do without to feed those kids or any children.

  42. The SHTF is part of an overall plan to decrease and control the population. Your real enemy; or the root of all of our problems; will not be the hungry zombies roaming the streets. It will be the government. They will eventually re-gain control when enough have died off. That`s when the real fun begins. Your weapons will be seized. You will have to get a chip to buy or sell. The fema camps will be overflowing with those who have attitude (preppers). This is when your personal food supply will be paramount. Hopefully you will have a good cache of freeze dried food because it lasts upwards of 25 years and none of us know when shtf will happen or how long we will need to supply our own food. My plan is to continuously stock up on freeze dried right up until the event. KEEP BUYING. KEEP HIDING. Also you need to find a place to disappear to. Because if you house is visible from the road; the government is going to invite themselves in.

    TOM

  43. So, I took my time to read everyones response.
    Wow, I typed in my response several times and kept deleting it because it seemed to myself that I still would not get my point of view explained without offending some tender souls.
    The fear of somebody looking for and needing help and arriving at your door, is touchable across the keyboard and the screen.
    All I hear is the horde of hungry desperate people who did not prepare knocking on your door and be seen as a threat, kind of “suck it up looser, you failed to prepare and I am not helping you”. All I hear is: I spent my PRECIOUS money to buy supplies for myself and family to survive. Wow.
    I understand a lot and yet I don’t.
    I don’t see much of tactical coolheadedness of assessing a situation to make things work out post_SHTF in restarting society, because that is the endgame, restarting society. There is a difference in hanging to your beliefs, but there is a difference hanging on to those beliefs so blindly that you are depriving yourself of the possibility of strength in numbers.
    Now, before anyones tells me that I don’t know what surviving means, allow me to tell you that my kids and I have been doing it for the last two years, thankfully, I am finally working next month and having my salary back where within a month I can replenish everything we used up in the last two years.
    Having gone thru bouts of homelessness with unprecendented starvation episodes, I assure you, that my kids and I are more then ready to take on everything, death included. I am that confindent. If it was not me to have the needed streetsmarts and confidence and protecting and guiding my kids to safety, I would not be here typing.
    With that being said, here is my projection regarding the preparedness minded: there will be at least a 70 percent attrition rate of survivability within 90 days of and post SHTF. Next is your psychological state, that’s a 80 percent of attrition rate into the SHTF time. The stress of not having money to pay your bill is not the same as the stress of selfdoubt about your capabilities,your beliefsystem, seing a blown up body ( a stranger or someone you know ), diseases, weather circumstances you name it to live thru it and come out of it. I speak here from experience having gone thru this and its not yet SHTF in that sense.
    My take back on all of this is that if you lose your soul and humanity, your material preparedness is irrelevant to a bigger degree. I am not like others helping out to earn brownie points to go to the pearly gates, that kind of belief defeats the purpose of the message issued about couple of thousand years ago. I do not quote to people passages out of the book, My faith is what keeps me going another day, and no my faith is not based on religion.
    I am to a degree saddened to see the reactions of some, regardless of the fact that I have been trained fully in SERE and other means of training when it comes to this. Heck, my military background is exactly what we are discussing here on this board. Operational security is a must, but it goes with a dose of soul and humanity. Those who have been in the military will understand what I mean.

    1. Texas,

      Never my intent to infer that I was ‘building up brownie points” to obtain salvation. My salvation came by my faith (done deal), doing the things God expects of His children and believing He will keep His promises is just expressing my faith.

      If I don’t trust Him to keep His other promises, why should I believe He really meant what He said about my belief in His Son? What am I telling God (or others around me) if I say that I trust Him for everlasting life, but hesitate to trust Him to replace that can of beans given to a stranger in need?

      I sometimes wish I didn’t feel compelled to express my faith, but I do. Some folks who profess the same faith feel uncomfortable when they hear others talk about it. I regret that too.

      1. Dennis,

        no worries, I understand what you are saying, and I hope you don’t take my post as an insult, because it is not meant as such.
        I rather have a person around me who is quiet about their face, but have their soul intact. I have unfortunately met a lot of so called Christian people who but stabbed us in the back. That experience was were disheartening. I have also met people who were kind to us, and they did not profess allegiance to any religion. As you stated, belief in Him and only Him is what matter. If I did not pray for his protection and ask to give me wisdom for the right moments to make the right decisions to survive, I would not be here typing. Do I have faith, you bet :) And I keep quiet about my belief system, because fist it is my personal business and second, I hate when someone tries to impose their on me without even knowing anything about me.
        This was my summary of the vibes I got from reading the posts…Like I said, not an insult to anyone and it should not be taken as such, but food for thought. We have to keep humanity and kindness alive, otherwise, we will not survive as a species….

        1. Texas,

          Believe me I know of the type you reference. Please understand, I will state my beliefs in the anonymity of a forum such as this. I don’t go walking down the street screaming “look at me, I,m working my way to heaven, see what a good guy I am”. Why bother? God knows my heart, my actions (good and bad), and most importantly, my motivations. I help folks, not for self promotion, rather, hoping those I help will question why I helped them. If asked, I will tell them why.

      2. Ah, forgot to mention about that brownie point system. It was a person who said to me that they are Christian and that they needed to score good with the Almighty and that is the only reason why they wanted to help us. I declined the offer.

        1. I know it wasn’t intended as humorous, but THAT is funny. I wonder how they’ll feel when they’re lumped with the goats? “…to be seen of men. I say unto you, they have their reward.”

          1. Lauren,
            I was speechless when they said it to us, but looking back, yeah, its funny, I am surprised that I did not burst out laughing :).

      1. Muchas Gracias NRP, or Thank You, Danke Schoen :).

        I am happy to say that I got my job back and I will have a real pay check again.

          1. Well, since you kept talking about your Sauerbraten and the missing Semmelknoedel, I will say Danke mein Nachbar :)

          2. @ Texas

            Well I like the good old fashion Kartoffelknödel myself :-)

            NRP

          3. As long as my mom does not make those…sigh, I am glad she is not on this site reading this because it will brake heart. Really good cook, but those Kartoffelknödel, yikes….we used to have a bunch of excuses not to sit at the table.
            Well, I will be cooking up some Schweinebraten and Semmelknoedel for the kids this weekend and make some Mohnkuchen for them too. They have been all good, so a treat for them.
            I am kind of happy that Spec’s carry lots of German food products now that it came on the other side of El Paso, so it’s been heaven for my grocery shopping.

            For all the readers here, I am working on a list of foods to prepare which can be canned for LTF storage. These come from my far away home quarters where my family has been making it for eons. I hope Ken won’t mind posting it :)

            P.S. NRP, a 10? I thought I was mild, heheee….thanks :)

          4. @ Texas

            First of all a rating does not have to be a “Rant” if it goes to the point and is well said. Your post was exactly why we all read this Blog, different points of view are always good. I felt a good hard look was worth a ratting, even your opinion was completely opposite of what most felt, it was well said and worth thinking about….

            Second, I would love to see the list, please make sure you post it on a Saturday free-for-all day…. You know how Ken gets at times …LOLOL

            Third, I’ll be down for dinner Saturday around 6:00 ?… I’ll bring the Franziskaner Hefe-Weisse. :-)

            NRP

          5. True, that’s why Ken has the best site where its okay to have a different opinion or take on things :)

            Dinner, cool, I’ll have my Flensburger Kellerbier or Warsteiner Radler ( I really, really miss a real Radler Bier ).

            I am tweaking the list, converting metric to imperial and of course, I have to translate too. But its fun and lots of good food.
            Will probably have it ready for next weekends open forum.

  44. Honestly, how I respond is going to depend on a lot of things, from the time of year to the people facing me. Most likely I’ll go out back and show them what weeds they can eat, then hand them seeds.

    When SHTF hits (this is rather flexible, necessarily) I plan to go to my neighbors with seeds and help them set up gardens. Get in there early and help them get established before it can get that far. I have a whole refrigerator full of heirloom seeds for that purpose. If it comes down to day to day survival, I’ve “weeded” a major portion of the yard and early spring would bring the beets, radishes, oats, carrots, spinach, potatoes and lettuce. As long as there’s water, I’ll survive.

  45. I know a guy that has a whole different out look on survival. His survival preparations are a silenced twenty two pistol and night vision. His plan is prey on anybody that has food at night. The guy is no joke, top physical shape, military experience, smart and aggressive. He likely isn’t the only one that will operate at night. This is a big threat to anyone that has no night time alarms rigged up around their homes. Keep this in mind that there is someone out there night and day that could be a threat to you and your family during a collapse.

    1. Sounds like this guy is not too bright. If he actually has the skills (lot of wanna be “Rambo’s out there, very few real ones) and the equipment (effective tactical night vision cost more than a years supply of food storage, two quality silenced .22 pistols would buy another years worth). For everyone who talks openly or brags about their tactical training, there are twenty that actually have the training and EXPERIENCE who will never reveal it. If he is for real, and actually plans to take by force after SHTF, he will be gathering intelligence on his potential targets right now. Otherwise his tactical equipment may very well be added to the possessions of his first “victim”.

      1. Dennis,
        The problem with a guy like that is if he said it he’s thought it.Hope Swamp Rat took it as a threat because it was.There will be plenty of people guys like him can prey upon. (Unfortunately )
        He would of gone to the top of the list to be neutralized by most groups I deal with. When the SHTF there will be no place for that mindset within your sphere of influence. If you expect to preserve your community /neighborhood that behavior will be a cancer to those efforts. That’s why it’s important to ferret out those guys now and make the decision to remove them from the equation when the SHTF.I’m not going to be in the business of rehabilitation of bad guys. I will leave that up to Jesus on the other side.
        In the last 7 plus months I have spent time making contact and relationships with the people in the 10 miles around my area. Most all decent folks with land,crops,animals and an agricultural mindset. A few on the outer areas with manicured lawns that will be having a little tougher time but the area will be able to help them thru it.
        Then there are those 4 individuals who are dangerous to the community by their words and deeds now when Allis relatively normal. Quite frankly, they are slated for extinction. It will be harsh times for awhile and harsh measures will be called for. Maybe years and those who will prey on the weak and vulnerable have no place in my community.They will be the “coyote carcases” hanging on the fence. That’s why you train for the top 5 percent. So the weak and vulnerable have a chance to contribute to the community.
        Let’s dispell the “honorable fighting” myth right now. Bad guys will use any and all tactics against you. You better be willing to return the favor.Bad guy shows his back to me will get a bullet in it. No such thing as dirty fighting. Only winning ESPECIALLY if you are fighting for your community,family,your way of life.
        There will be time for soft talk and rehabilitation later.. My Point of view btw isn’t always that popular but oh well…

        1. It doesn’t have to be popular. It’s realistic. Many others will adopt the same philosophy after the fact, when this kind appears at their door. It’s very similar to the philosophy held by many of our ancestors throughout history–get the bad ones out of circulation, they’re a threat to everyone.

          Unfortunately, our “civilization” has a bad habit of either putting them in jail for life or electing them to political office.

      1. NRP.,

        Thermal is much better for target detection in cover, but extremely difficult to navigate with, and exponentially more expensive. Which bolsters my doubts of people touting their capabilities to take what they want after SHTF. Sure, there are some with the capability and equipment, but you will darn sure well never hear those people talking about it.

        1. @ Dennis

          Agreed about those that “bolstering”” about taking what they want afterwards; works just fine and dandy, for a while. Problem with the Rambo types, ya just never know when that old fat toothless redneck on his front porch is just sitting there with his “Squirrel Rifle” pointing at ya from 500 yards as ya sneak up on him in all your Techno Gear and Night Vision Goggles. FYI, Billy-Bob usually don’t have much of a sense when it comes to Rambo sneaking around disturbing his sleep.

          The idea of being a “taker” is foolish when one is spending 99.99% of the time “hunting” others that are weaker than ones-self. There is always and I do mean always someone out there just a little tougher that you or I am, I have no doubt on that what-so-ever.

          Night Vision, puffff, same way with Thermal, it’s too restrictive as far as “seeing”. If one can’t see well enough with Moon and Star light or background light AND know his/her surroundings well enough to walk the perimeter in the dark, ya might just start practicing that. Also know where those burrows are for scouting (and resting) the area for a few hours on end.

          FYI, nothing more degrading when spotting through a NV scope and seeing the instructor on a field exercise just standing there with his AR equipped with a simple Red Dot at full ready pointing at you, and you just saw him, embarrassing as hell, let me tell ya. That night at 2:30 in the morning was when I gave up on NV and Thermal. His advice, “sit down, shut up, remain still, and wait; don’t even breathe hard, being the stealth or “gray man” and knowledge is the winning edge”. Oh yeah, and practice. If you can’t hit what you’re shooting at, than just roll over and die.

          That was a very long week of training… HAHAHA
          I bet he killed me at least 25 times in 4 days/nights of field exercises.
          The old boy was a true azzhole, and I liked him and learned a LOT. :-)

          NRP

        2. Dennis,

          you kind of spoke about how I feel about that too. The ones who truly have that training, and I know a few because I worked with them in the past and I am part of the branch, would never ever talk about it.

          I personally believe that the best cover is not to talk about it. Since I am short and have gray hair, I play the granny part to the tilt :)

          1. @ Texas

            Gary Hair????? How can you have gray hair, your only like 28 years old… :-)

            NRP

          2. NRP, I am 28, in my dreams, then I wake up, look in the mirror and that’s when I realize the strange person staring at me making faces is me lol :)

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