Four Survival Guns
Owning a gun, or a variety of guns, is not only your Constitutional right, but is a core element to ultimate personal protection and it compliments the lifestyle of ‘survival living’ as a practical tool.
Although there are some who are wary of guns, and there are parts of the world where gun ownership is outright banned, owning a gun is really just like owning a tool to compliment all the other tools that you have in your ‘kit’.
I like to re-post this (original) article every year for your additional comments – because it’s always a popular and often widely debated subject with many opinions…
From ‘Kent’, a reader in Alaska, who already lives a lifestyle where hunting, fishing, gathering, gardening, canning, etc., is common and simply part of his and his wife’s current way of life. He brought up the notion of how firearms are integral to rural survival living and listed some practical recommendations including the four survival guns he would choose.
Kent from Alaska writes:
If I had to pick one firearm only, it would be a .22 rifle. Even a good one is inexpensive, as guns go, and so is the ammo. It is good for small game, adequate for home defense and medium game, and in a pinch one could take a deer or even a moose with a well-placed shot.
If I could pick a second, a 12-ga. shotgun (pump action) would be it. It can fire a variety of loads for small, medium, and large game – bird-shot to buckshot/slugs. It is the best home defense weapon there is.
Some might argue that the shotgun should be the first weapon and the .22 the second… but the .22 is more accurate at longer ranges and if your survival depended on taking that marmot way over there, I wouldn’t want a shotgun.
For a third, it’d be a tossup between a revolver and a scoped rifle. It would sort of matter on where one lived. In a rural area, the rifle would be handier for game like pig, deer, antelope, elk, etc. As far as general use, it is hard to go wrong with a .30-06 in the lower 48. Here in Alaska, with bigger more-dangerous game to deal with, a .338 or .375 would be the way to go.
In an urban environment, the revolver would probably be handier. A .357 magnum or .41 magnum is excellent for home defense. Don’t go for a little short-barreled pocket gun. Get a nice, solid, 6″-or-better-barreled pistol. With a scope, it can also be used for hunting.
Best bet, get all 4 types…
While ‘big-and-bad’ semi-automatic weapons with large magazines may be popular in the movies, simple and reliable bolt or lever-action rifles, pump shotguns, and the ever-reliable revolver are far less likely to jam, misfire, or break.
Based on reading lots of opinion prior to posting this, it seemed to me that the following 4 guns were often near the top of the list with regards to tools for survival.
List Of The Top 4 Survival Guns?
1. Glock 19 (9mm) handgun, Caliber is extremely common and ammunition will be easiest to obtain. Very reliable, accurate, and highly owned pistol for all around use.
2. Remington 870 (12 gauge) shotgun, Highly customizable and well respected reliable pump action shotgun.
3. Ruger 10/22 (.22 LR), Well renown and respected all-around 22 that is highly configurable, accurate, and reliable.
4. AR-15 (.223/5.56x45mm) rifle.
I read this book a few years ago, Boston T. Party, and it suggests the following four guns (with caveats)
Glock 30 (.45ACP) handgun
Remington 870 (12 gauge) shotgun
M14 (.308) semi-auto battle rifle
Marlin M70 Papoose (.22LR)
WHAT IS YOUR OPINION?
I would not own an AR-15 rifle. Same goes for the semi auto pistol. I have two scoped bolt action rifles in .270 winchester. For defense I use a lever action .357 magnum rifle with matching revolver. I use 2 single shot 20ga shotguns for food gathering. I do own a semi auto .22 and have hunted with it. I like the shotguns better by far. Again, it fits where I live. You don’t need to get fancy. Simple honest firearms that one is familiar with and can use with confidance are more important than a whole closet full of AR-15’s IMHO…
I have a few guns .50 cal online bolt muzzleloader,sks3 30rd mags,2 9mm highpoint 995 carbines new fully dressed 6 clips ,270 remington 2 mags, mosin nagent ,22 rifle scoped10rd mag, 20 gauge , 12 gauge moss berg 590 a 9 shot shotgun, walther p 22 pistol 2 mags, glock .40 5 mags. High point 9mm 2 mags. Plenty of tannerite . I save propane tanks from the scrap yard for the drive way . I try to keep 500 rnds for each gun . What else should I consider getting ?
if everyone else has a longarm (and they will have, if shtf) a pistol won’t amount to a hill of beans. I have one for my BOB, but it’s the same one, in the same holster, which I use for EDC. It’s a Sig P938, a 15 oz pocket 9mm. One spare mag of ammo is all I’ll carry, altho there’s 50 more rds at the BOL, 500 more .22lr rds, and 200 more 223’s. There will be plenty of ammo to take from the dead, by the time I’ve fired the 100 rds that are part of my BOB.
mostly, what you’ll be wanting is a subsonic 60 gr Aquila .22 rd, thru a silenced autoloader, so you can silently brain cattle, horses, sheep, dogs, and people. 308’s, etc, will be stupid, noisy wastes. I will carry the AR15 in 223 firing ‘mode”, but it only takes 20 seconds to QUIETLY swap the parts out to let it fire the .22lr conversion unit ($200, Ciener firearms, 3/4 lb, 30 rd box mag). So I’l have the 223 softpoints as an option, if I need the power, penetration and range.
You must not have any experience in the military where the M16 and M4 are used in many survival situations (combat) and are the difference in survival or death. The weapons that make the difference when the obstacle to survival is the two legged type and not the four footed kind you may face in a rural environment. The AR-15 type rifles are very versatile and will serve anyone as self defense or small to medium game getters.
Just because the govt. Issued them does not mean they are the best.combat maybe, survival as in the great outdoors?after all since Vietnam not too to successful in the war win loss ratio.
@kuroko, Again you must not be too familiar with history because the results of past wars won or lost had nothing to do with the failure of the M16/M4 weapon system and everything about the policies and tactics employed during those conflicts. You are entitled to your opinion as everyone is but you are not entitled to rewrite the facts. The defensive capabilies of this weapon system in being able to accomplish this mission is a historical fact born out of countless successful engagements both on the individual and unit level. It may not be the choice for everyone in every situation (because there is NO one weapon right for all possible situations) but it has clearly proven itself in the most extreme environment possible i.e. combat and will perform that mission for those who know and chose to rely on it in a future survival scenario. I would guess you have no or little experience with real survival situations which is OK but please know your opinion should be considered with that fact in mind, no offense intended. Take care.
For the modest budget, the Ruger SR 22 is a fine little pistol, takes any ammo you feed it. As for a .22 rifle, the Marlin 22 (by Remington) is far better than the Ruger. The Ruger 10/22 jams. The trouble with 22s: hard to find ammo.
Army, 65 to 72. I dig you like the 223, but as long as you’re not too lazy or too light in the ass, the 308 is a much better choice!!!!!
bs, there’s over 300 million people in the US. if shtf, nothing will keep 60 milllion mexicans from coming here,either. People have moutain bikes, offroad motorcycles, powered, sail, paddlable boats, ATV’s, etc. they can and WiLL get anywhere, by the thousands. Your place, in the lower 48 states at least, is NOT remote, it’s known about by 100’s of people, too. the game will all be GONE in a month of shtf. the starving dog packs, cats and people will guarantee that. 90% of the population can’t afford to give up car, house, job, take kids out of school, abandon parents, etc. So they aint going anywhere until it’s OBVIOUSLY a complete disaster and they’ll be headed out to the farms and ranches, cause there’ll be no WATER in the cities and towns.
Funny, while in Iraq in 2009 I often wished I had my 30-30 Winchester or my 12ga Remington 870 in my hands instead of the M-4 or the M-9 I was issued. The military only issues toy guns these days.
if you did, it’s cause you’re ignorant. Why give up all the advantages of GI ammo, ease of cleaning (sand messes up a lever action RIGHT NOW) rapidfire, longer range, etc?
A 60 gr softpoint 223 to the brain will drop a moose, bear or elk in its tracks and I can make that shot at any range at which you can hit the chest with a muzzle loader. :-) Charcoal burners are a joke for shtf. You aint gonna HAVE the sulphur needed to make black powder, and the stuff is bulky, prone to drawing moisture, corrosive, easily detonated by static electricity, expensive, and you need a LOT of it for each shot. forget it. a slingbow would be a better choice, paired with a take down pellet rifle.
I don’t know if this has any bearing on your letter, but I worked in the stockyards divison of a packing house for a number of years. And one of my jobs was cripple cart operator, putting down crippled animals using a .22 cal handgun and or a .22 bolt action rifle or a stud ( ? ) gun ( using .22 cal blanks ), imagining a X or a cross between the eyes and the top of the head, or just behind the top of the head or in one of the ears pointing slightly down. Then it gets really exciting when a beef gets wild and you can’t get close enough to use the pistol, then you have to use the single shot bolt action rifle from 10 to 20 feet away and hope you hit the right spot the first time. Now that PETA has gotten into the plant and made all kinds of demands, things have gotten goofy.
I agree with you. I own over 50 firearms and I prefer most simplistic. I was in the military and carry a .357 sig for personal protection. I also carry a .44 Mag in mountainous areas (bear country). The 9mm is the most readily available firearm but do I need a Glock? I have surplus ammo in all major firearms. I also prefer the .270 as opposed to any other rifle. I own a 20 Gauge not a 12 Gauge which is sufficient for all small game such as fowl, squirrels, and rabbit.
I prefer the 20 gauge to the 12 also. Two reasons, the wife and kids can handle it painlessly with 80% the power and half the recoil of the 12 and the rifled slug for big game have a better Ballistic coefficient than the 12 so it actually has a longer range than the 12 with slugs.
how to CARRY all those longarms, and the pack that you WILL have to lug around everywhere? HOW will you KNOW when it’s ok to not have your fighting rifle, etc, hmm? that’s stupid, man. You’ve got to have the most versatile arm possible and it’s got to be silenced, concealable in your pack, capable of 1/4 mile sniping, pierce soft armor, have night-sights, be usable with one arm, use the GI rd, be rapidfiring, use .22lr ammo,
if it’s shtf, you’ll be noticed/make noise at the risk of your life! No fires in daylight, no noise, no flashy movement, no being in the open in daylight. Best have a concealed dugout shelter and stay IN it during daylight hours. have at least a 6 month supply of food where you can get it to the BOL in one night, by walking alongside of a bike, with a drum lashed to the bike. be set up to grow sprouts, subsurface, out of sight, too. traps, nets, trotlines, fish poison, bird lime on roosts, all can be serviced at night.
only a fool would choose to be NOISY when shtf. You want a shorty AR15 in 223, with a silencer and .22lr conversion unit. Better rapidfire, better range, easier to maintain, takes the GI rd AND the most commonly found ammo, luminous sight inserts, concealable when taken down, can be used with just one arm, etc.
THIS is what you want (but suppressed)
You can always slow down for easy stuff, but you can’t speed up with a silly bolt action, nor can you reach 1/4 mile with a shotgun, as you can easily do with the shorty 223 and silencer. dont kid yourself that shtf won’t be about combat!
A 22 LR semi-automatic Remington 15 shot, A 270-Win pump Gamemaster 860 5 Shot clip, Bunnell ScopecheiflV 3x-9x Breakaway Scope in case you have a close up! And last but not least the best brush gun ever made, model 1894- Micro- Groove- Carbine 357 Magnum.
completely degrease your (clean) AR with alcohol. Then coat the exterior surfaces with a couple of layers of car wax. Solvents and oils wil attack the wax. So, for the high friction points, put on a TINY amount of Lockease graphite. Nothing to “catch’ sand, dust, or other debris. You wont be shooting much. keep the ejection port cover shut and the muzzle of the silencer taped, and you’ll have no need to clean the rifle, for months on end.
the woods will be full of desperate, well armed people, many of whom will shoot you on sight and you want clunker bolt actions muzzleloaders, bows, pellet guns and the like, right? I”ll take a silenced AR15 and .22 conversion unit, with luminous iron sights and QD scope mount, hard belt case for it, and see thru base on it. Best to not BE in open country in daylight, if shtf. Service your traps, snares, trotlines, nets, bird lime, etc, at night, using your NVD goggles, and you’ll be MUCH safer and more effective than any bs daytime hunting.
I totally agree on the trapping and checking of all potential food traps, snare’s, trout line’s etc. And the 22.
you’re just stupid to ASSUME that the AR-15 use is not skilled with his AR, Your noisy, slow bolt actions will soon belong to your killer. The AR’s threaded muzzle is made for hosting a silencer, and night scopes fit it easily. The adjustable stock allows for pack harness, armor, heavy winter clothing. you’ll not be carrying the 30 lb s of needed food, water and survival gear and more than one longarm.. You can’t shoot a gun that you aint got. Just cause you’ve only got a shotgun or bolt action, you ‘think” nobody’s going to attack you? you’re a fool. You can always hunt with a silenced fighting rifle. The subsonic .22, thru the 223 silencer and the Ciener .22lr conversion unit, is a FAR better foraging choice than any shotgun or bolt action. Your noise (and flash at night) is going to call in your killers.
Anonymous do you talk like that to people Face to Face? Folks will listen better if you act like a friend vs a wanna be Drill SGT.
Over that last few years I have shot several AR’s with various 22 Long Rifle conversion kits. The twist on most AR’s does not work well with 36 or 40 grain 22 LR rounds from my experience. The idea seems cool but I like Minute of Squirrel abilities like my Ruger 10-22 instead of sheet of typing paper patterns at 40 yards. Why 40 yards? That is as far as I can get a good bead on a squirrel in my area.
From your comments I can assume you’ve never hunted with good ole boys. Some of my very successful poacher friends could show you a good time at night and they don’t hunt with silenced AR’s and all that. Maybe you could EDUCATE them Stupid Fools into the 21st Century.
Try to pretend that we are your friends and you will get listened to. The Predator Chat Boards are elsewhere.
Sorry but I have to chuckle a little at your reply to Anonymous,
This fool is posting to a comment that was made in 2010. Calling all sorts of people “stupid”.
Seriously Michael, do you really think this Anonymous gives a Rat’s Azz, or just another Fly-By Keyboard Junkie.
Just another example why not to waste time on anyone that post “Anonymous”
Though I must admit, it’s entertaining at times HAHAHAH
Sigh NRP you got me there. :-)
Or as Darth Vader once said “Too Easy”
Or as the Song goes “Carry On my Wayward Son, you’ll have peace when your done…”
Kansas, 1976, ahhhhh I remember it well.
Good year, Good time, My My has the world changed or what???? :-)
Me thinks another mucho macho gear junky,,,
I second that, i have tried 2 different models and gave em both away because they werent worth a damn,
Now a dedicated 22LR upper from JP, thats a different animal, if i could only have one,,,, it would be my 308win remington 700 bolt gun,,,
What you think the threaded barrel on my 308 bolt gun is for? Giggles?
Dennis what DO you have against those Tree Rats? LOL
I see you agree with my thought of BEWARE of Squirrel Hunters, They can SHOOT.
Two semi serious thoughts…
One anybody (Hey NRP!) have any tips on making these Tree Rats more tender? Mine can be tasty but TOUGH. Help!!
One-B Anybody use leaning branch share loops for them? You can really put a dent in the local Tree Rats that way. Saves on 22 shorts too.
Two I feel it a good idea to have ammo for those items I do not yet own. Would love a FN 5.7mm but decided that money better spent elsewhere, Thoughts?
Two-B I am NOT using ammo as trade goods unless a Trusted Ally. Even birdshot and 22 can be hard on my tribe by untrustworthy folks. Thoughts?
One, soak the tree rat in salt water overnight, dump the water, add some spices and some vegs to a Dutch Oven, fill 1/4 wath with water and set on a fire for about an hour, toss in the rat and cook for another hour. Pull the rat and fry up in a separate cast iron skillet, return to Dutch oven and cook for 2-3 hours more using skillet for lid, add water as needed, finally toss contence of Dutch Oven in Outhouse and eat Dutch Oven and Skillet….
One – B, yes have used them, but been years.
Two, I buy ammo for what I once had before the Lake accident, nothing else, I’m not buying for amyone else
Two – B
why would you put ammo into others hands that now you got “stuff”?????
Yes, squirrel can be tough. Being a southern boy, fried squirrel was a standard. Squirrels, like chickens, get tougher with age. Squirrel dumplings was also a standard fare.
When going to college, a hunting buddy of mine’s girlfriend (later became his wife) told us if we would bring her a mess (southern talk for enough for a good meal) of dressed squirrels, she would make us the best fried squirrel dinner we had ever tasted. We did our part, and she did her’s. She first breaded the cut critters with a spicy breading, pan fried them, then pressure cooked them on a rack above the water. Best, most tender squirrel I’ve ever ate. It fell off the bone.
Try slow cooking (in a slow cooker) overnight in cream of mushroom soup with carrots, potatoes, onions, and a few balls of biscuit dough.
The FN 5.7, in my eyes, is a cartridge developed for a new design in sub guns and a companion pistol capable of defeating soft body armor. Ballistically, it appears similar to a wildcat cartridge developed years ago for converted M-1 carbines that was very popular in Mexico and South America. Can’t recall the name right now (Spitfire?), but it was a .30 carbine case necked down to .22 cal.
You are SO BAD NRP!
Seriously aside from using them as flavoring Squirrels are just going to be really tough chew toys?
I’ve slow cooked Wood Chuck and served to some friends and family they loved it. Now they MAY have had the impression it was stew beef but they loved it.
So many Tree Rats so few recipes…..
Dennis fried then then Pressure Cooked them?
I think I’ll give the hang-rats nooses a run and Slow Cook them. I had a BAD experience with Pressure Cookers. Most exciting meal I ever cooked AND most expensive after I fixed the ceiling.
My beloved is the pressure cooker fan but she is a tad squeamish about eating Squirrels. Eats whatever I cook up but..
Thanks for the recipe :-) Southern Zoo style.
Yep, fried first, then pressure cooked. She learned it from working in a Colonel Sander’s Kentucky Fried Chicken franchise. That’s how they prepared the old “original recipe” fried chicken with the “secret blend of herbs and spices”. They still do. She just substituted squirrel.
Dennis I will give it a try but as someone that loves to cook (And never trust a skinny cook) I wonder how the breading-slight crispyness of a pan fired critter would do in a pressure cooker.
I could see reversing that process to tenderize that squirrel then after it cooled dredging it in some corn meal and tabasco for the pan fry…. Clearly I’d have to avoid pressure cooking it into Hunters Stew :-)
Dennis would you mind asking that fine Southern Lady for clarification in this matter?
Thanks and Enjoy the Day!
Mike, I haven’t seen her since 1970. I do remember that the pressure cooking took place after the frying, and lasted around twenty minutes for that step.
Another possibility if you’re afraid of blowing up your kitchen, my daughter bought a slow cooker with a sealer ring on the lid and clamps to hold it down. She cooked a cheap, bone in pork shoulder roast overnight in it last week. She asked me to bone it out. When I lifted it from the crock and set it on the platter, the meat basically fell off the bone, leaving my dog with a completely bare bone. He wasn’t thrilled. I shredded the meat easily with a fork only, simmered it in a pan with some Sweet Baby Ray’s BBQ Sauce. It was so good and tender I fear the democrats will pass a law against it, so don’t spread it around.
Wow what a mind picture of your disappointed Dog! He should be happy I’m not there as I tend to dry that bone and grind it for the Chickens.
You KNOW why Hush Puppies get their name eh?
Sweet Baby Ray’s BBQ Sauce Oh MY! You reminded me I need to check the outdates on the case of Sweet baby Ray’s I have downstairs. SO GOOD!!
Cooking for 4 adults for the week right now. House smells good!
Enjoy the day, I am
In a survival situation an AK-47 or similar rifle would be preferred to the AR-15. Love ARs but the need alot of TLC
The AR-15 is the best survival rifle (If you have the money)
Hell no. Have you ever used an AR in a life or death / survival capacity? They suck and they have always sucked. Don’t get me wrong, $3000 can get you a nice one with better rwliability but it still cant handle the abuse of an AK varient. I’ve had plenty of time with both in a capacity I hope the readers of this will never see and anyone who votes AR obviously hasnt. Even with massive military logistics behind you it can still cost you your life. Think you’ll be in that good of shape post shtf?
The AR, M16, etc are POS losers. You can buy several good weapons for the price of one POS.
the military proves you wrong, every day. But don’t let the facts interfere with your bsing on the Net.
that’s funny, cause on armlocker forums, garand now ADMITS to owning a 14.5″ AR15 and is looking for good handloads for it. :-) Even a complete idiot can learn simple things, it seems. if you choose 308, you’re choosing to be noisy, cause you don’t have ANY range advantage with the 308, over the 223, unless you have a 20″ barrel. You also can’t have an adquatlely suppressed 308 without 10″ of silencer. 30″ of rifle and silencer means you have a heavy, clumsy, slow pos longarm. 11.5″ of AR15 223 and 7.5″ of silencer is just as handy as the unsuppressed 20″ 308, and the AR is QUIET. With full powered 223 ammo, the can makes the AR sound like a normal .22lr rifle With a .22lr conversion unit and subsonic ammo,the AR is quiet as a BB gun. Yet, it is lethal to 125 yds and has a 30 rd box mag. MUCH better than any pellet rifle, bow, or crossbow, and you aren’t wasting noisy 223 rds on dogs, livestock, or small critters.
I would like a sks over the poodle shooter. for one ting the sks is a30 caliber and it is in my price range. I know the sks is more of a medium range rifle but my 06 will take care of the long range work.
Your local jr college will give you 6k of loans and a Pell grant to cover your actual school expenses. Get a “c” in half of your classes and they will give you yet ANOTHER 6k of loans and another 2.5K of grants. You can make 3k per year, 4 hours per week, by selling your blood plasma. So why not get an AR, silencer and .22 unit? You CAN also buy an AR a piece at a time. Start with a $50 Stripped lower receiver, from Brownell’s Supply. the other parts can be bought in the mail, to include the .22lr conversion unit.
Adams arms makes great gas piston kits for ar’s so you have a very reliable platform that’s lighter more ergonomic and with much more amunition and magazines in use here in murka !! I have a 10.5 piston at it’s never once had a malfunction
My son & I both have AR-15s and have never had a single problem with them. He has an AK-47 and has had continual problems with it.
I have a 380 LCP for concealed carry, a 22 rifle, a Glock 19, a Remington 870 and the AR-15. The AR-15 is by far my favorite gun and my son’s favorite also but, it will not serve the functions best suited to the LCP, the Glock nor the shotgun and you can get an awful lot of 22 ammo for very little money relative to the rest of these guns. I am happy I have all five as they each serve their purpose very well.
wth makes people “think’ that they will know in advance if it’s ok to have short range only, NOISY shotgun, slow arsed Bolt actions, etc? YOu CAN’T know and you can’t get game or looters to wait while you go get the ‘right gun for the job”. That’s total bs.
The AK-47 is the worlds most manufactured (and cloned) rifle in the world bar none. I bought 2 for less money then 1 stock AR would cost. Replaced the stock with plastic to reduce maintenance (no linseed oil). The ammo is common and in-expensive. Magazines are 30 round but, I have 40 rd mags. I can fire 3 shots in the time that you flip a lever. Don’t even subject your AR to my tests (mud pack, sand bath, wash in stream, and snow bank cool off).
Odds are – it is what more of your friends (and enemies) will have (bullets too) – I can use their ammo with my rifle without moving scopes, dots and lasers.
I would hope by now everybody is ready for TSHTF and stocked up on ammo. Our group reloads all the ammo we can get. We have a good amount (I don’t want to give my business away) already made and in the process of making. I can say we have more rounds for the AK than the AR15’s. This is only because it is cheaper to buy them now than make believe it or not. The Ar15’s we spend more in making but it has a lot more use as everyone in our group has at least 1 decked out. The AK is a more powerful weapon and can do a lot more damage. Yes it can take a lot of abuse and still function but in the end of it all it will be the AR15’s that we will make. Molds are cheaper, shells can be picked up easily as everyone shoots them, and they can go in any brand AR15. Not to mention parts can be found easily for all AR15’s. As to AK? Not so much. I believe if it comes to push and shove about weapons and the ones for survival everybody has their own love of certain weapons. I would just say this about the best 4. Pick a weapon that you can reload your own shells and start reloading now while you have a chance to do it cheap. I have a rifle and a pistol in the same caliber so I only have to carry one ammo. My other recommendation is to consider what you will be shooting and buy accordingly. Don’t buy “specialty” weapons that cost a lot for ammo. A 223 is perfect for varmints and bigger game to wear as a 30/6 would be overkill. Rule of thumb about weapons is buy the ones that are proven reliable. Check out reviews on the weapon your thinking about getting and then go look at it. Don’t buy a weapon just because “dad” had one. Most older weapons parts are getting hard to find and the cost of ammo is to high. Modern weapons out perform most older versions and they are lighter with more options. Again if TSHTF AR15’s will rule the day over AK/47’s or so I believe and so does my group.
Well in regards to the AR/AK debate, I’ve chosen the Swiss AK variant in the Sig 550. It is 1lb heavier than the AR due to the gas piston but runs cooler and cleaner than DI system of the AR. Mine is sub MOA accurate with AK reliability. In regards to parts/mags/repair, I’ve taken the time and cash over the years to stockpile both magazines and repair parts. My secondary rifle is a Steyr AUG with NATO receiver that enables STANAG/AR15 mags. Both weapons are highly accurate with 1 in 7 twist nitrided barrels as we as highly reliable. I’ve taken the extra SHTF measure of having the internals of both rifles coated in Fail Zero. I believe I’m set.
Bolt action 30-06; pump 12 gauge; 1911-A1; .22 revolver – all quality. Handload for them, except for the .22. Cast bullets for them. All weapons to be 100% reliable with all loads used. No BS.
1St used m16 in Vietnam got rid of it or m14 as fast as possible wind affected it dirt got it rounds deflected in Bush wasted a lot of ammo 308 doesn’t deflect with a breeze or Bush and see a lot less ammo
Nicely said, and thank you and your son for your service. Great information.
Iv used the M4 in Afganistan for life and death situations and my AR at home is much better then what I was issued and for 250 300 yards iv taken guys down that missed me with an AK the accuracy is the big diffrence keep your ak I’ll run the AR platform until I die because it’s proven and it works.
So does a bolt action deer rifle.
I don’t know about you but 4 or 5 guns to carry is too much. I have a Rossi triple threat. It comes with 3 barrels, 22lr, 20guage, and 243. This is a good dependable and accurate setup. The only draw back is it is a single shot. But it is for hunting and providing food. With that in mind as light as it is you can carry defensive guns such as an AR or mini 14 or what ever you prefer. As far as survival and price you can not beat the Rossi setup.
I completely agree with you. Is the M4 a good hunting rifle. No! Is the M4 the best rifle ever made? No! But when the SHTF it will be the best weapon out. Will I care about hunting rules? No! Will it drop an elk cleanly with one shot? No, but my intent would be to keep shooting until the game is out of sight or on the ground.
In a tough situation, there will be more parts and mags for a M4 than an AK. I can lay down better suppressive fire with a M4 than with my Winchester Model 70 or M1A. It’s the Ford Focus of rifles.
Ak-47 is the most reliable combat gun in the world, the piston uses the spent gases to move the slide back to chamber a round. AR-15s uses a simple blow back system. ARs are far more accurate due to the close tolerances, thereby a small amount of trash can get between the moving parts and jam. An AK-47 actually rattles if you shake it, loose tolerances. An AR-15 that is kept clean is a very reliable weapon, but in adverse conditions it will not take the neglect or abuse of an AK. In actual test, a 7.62×39 AK will shoot through both sides of a 55 drum full of water, a 223 AR will not. AK will shoot through 5-1/2 milk jugs full of water, An AR will shoot through 3-1/2. An AK will shoot through 12 inches of soft wood, an AR will not go through 8 inches. The AR shoots a small light lead very straight, fast and has a very impressive accuracy even up to 300 yards. The Ak is chunkier and slower demanding it best be suited for 150 yards or less. However, the ARs small straight firing lead if it does not hit a vital target has little stopping power. An Ak bullet is not very accurate because the bullet is designed to tumble, but the wound is pretty massive even if it is a flesh wound. AR cannot even be used for deer hunting in some states because it is considered too small to be humane. Light weight and accuracy, goes to the AR, [adverse conditions] dependability and greater knockdown goes to the AK. In all fairness for me to pick between these two proven guns, I would want to know the situation, about the only thing these guns have in common is they are used in war. They are often debated but they are designed with different goals in mind. If I were stationary and was going to meet the enemy within 100 yards I would want the AK, if I had to move and carry the weapon long distances and might have to shoot at greater distances I would want the AR. By the way, I know 300 yard shots can be made with the AK, and 500 yard shots can be made with the AR, BUT I am being reasonable, not extraordinary.
I dont think game laws will apply in a shtfw. But if they did certain states like VA my home state require a min of .24 cal for big game while nieghboring states like WV use a more realistic assesment of power such as min ft/lb which leaves .222and > viable options while taking some limpdick carnival cals out. Sorry I’ve made this so longwnded but youd still be screwed more than likely with a 7.62×39 = FMJ illegal to hunt with lots of .223 hunting rounds . I wouldnt worry about legalities in that situation if the diff between my family starving and being Dudley Doright my family is going to bed fat and happy
I get the biggest kick out of people that tell me that the AK47 variants are invincible and the M16/AR15/M4 are not reliable. Everyone seems to want to run with the herd on this issue, even without having any real knowledge.
The United States Military has used the M16 for fifty years. I’ve owned, carried and shot the M16/AR15/M4 for over thirty years. I even carried it as a United States Marine. I can tell you that mine was always reliable and the only problem that I ever had was due to ammunition. It was the cheap American Eagle stuff.
I’m not an AK47 variant hater. I actually own a couple and have fun shooting them.
BOTH the AR platform and AK/SKS platforms are obviously useful and solid/reliable weapons. Unfortunately they have both proven this by killing thousands of people in battle. What is the BEST SHTF gun? Whatever you can have in your hands and operating when you need it!!!
so why not have the BEST in your hands, hmm? instead of some JOKE of a gun.
Don’t close with the enemy, it’s a crap shoot and you’ll die cause they’re also armed with POS weapons.
Stay away from crowds unless you’re a LEO or military. Many of us have been there so quit the BS.
I like your point about the ammo. in fact im changing my entire selection of fire arms to much more common ammunition. but why is everyone so in to rate of fire if the shtf? you should be counting your shots like a sniper spray and pray isn’t a real prepper thing to do. I have guns in both calibers and yes both fun to shoot but if im scavenging threw road block and emergency response vehicles finding 7.62×39 is only going to be there because they took from some idiot. 12ga 22lr 9mm 223 308. go to your local stores that sell ammo see whats there that’s what I did when I started shooting comps I cant be driving all across hells half acre to pick up a box of 9.3x74R for god knows what rifle.
you can’t watch 360 degrees, 24-7, you CAN be snuck up upon, especially at night, and you WILL miss (a lot) when you are being shot at. In fact, you’ll miss a lot anyway, if you lack ear protection or a silencer. Just cause you’ve got an AR does not mean that you MUST spray and pray, ya know. But if all you have is a bolt action, HOW do you get rapidfire? you CANT, and you’ll probably need rapidfire, so it’s stupid to choose a bolt action. It’s also stupid to choose a short ranged pos like the shotgun.
The U.S government is responsible for the M-16 problems in Viet Nam. Stoner did not want a forward assist. he wanted to have to dump a round that wouldn’t chamber instead of forcing it farther in, after which it may not be removable in the field. The U.S. military insisted on using ball powder remanufactured from WW II artillery shells and told soldiers there was no need to ever clean the rifle. Ball powder was terribly dirty for this rifle (The AR 15, and especially the DI system was conceived with light weight and economical manufacture in mind). This is well documented.
I believe this completely. I have read stories of our boys collecting a stray sks and ammo to carry on patrol because they had no faith in their m16. I also read they were told not to clean their m16s as they would be just fine. I am certain no automatic weapon ever created does not need to be cleaned, even a revolver will eventually foul. If you didn’t clean an m16, I bet you would have tons of jams. Even an sks owner (not ak47 since they are milled not stamped) can verify. Don’t clean it and risk a slam fire.
you wont’ be shooting a lot. If you are, hyou’ll be DEAD. you’re doing to many things incorrectly, like being out and about in daylght. No safe base to run back to, no Uncle sugar to save your butt. Totally different tactics will be needed. if you keep the ejection port cover shut and the muzzle taped over, there’d no reason to clean the rifle, when you’re not firing it. Your pistol should be in your front pants pocket holster, out of sight, out of the elements, readily accessible, out of the way of your pack and your rifle, No reason to clean it, either.
NO noisy gun makes any sense for shtf, guys. and no long barrel makes sense with a silencer. no short barreled 308 offers ANY range advantage over a shorty 223. Put the needed 10″ of silencer on 20″ of 308 barrel and what you’ve got is a slow arsed clunk of a gun. Bipod-use only basically. to hell with THAT. 7.5″ of silencer and 11.5″ of AR15 barrel, that results in a still handy gun. With 60 gr, deep penetrating, reliably expanding Nosler Partition softpoints, it does a fine job. but what really puts the icing on the cake is the Ciener .22lr conversion unit and the luminous sight inserts. NOTHING is as versatile,and as likely to be needed as this ensemble. It can win matches, take varmints and small game all year long, take deer and hogs, defend your home and vehicle, be great for shtf combat and foraging.
My major problem with an AK is when a typical American sees one they think of a terrorist. So in a post SHTF situation are you going to carry it? What if someone sees you and thinks because of the gun you choose you are the bad guy? Another prepper suggested putting a shemagh in your BOB and went on and on about how useful it is. But like the AK when I see a shemagh I think terrorist. The objective in a bug out situation is to not call attention to yourself. I would think this would be true post SHTF too. I would no more carry a AK after SHTF then I would wear a speedo at a gay pride parade.
A shorty AR can be concealed in a backpack, quite easily, when it’s disasembled. That takes only 5 seconds, reassemble to fire in 10 seconds. Better have a pistol, also, tho! :-) You don’t want your sleeping bag out in the rain and being torn by the brush. Basically, you should not be out and about in daylight, nor making any noise, if shtf.
In a post SHTF time – anyone who sees you (rifle or not) is probably going to shoot at you. Carrying any “rifle” in the open will get you shot. I really think that the answer here is “hide the guns”.
Be like me, carry the gun CCW style and your rifle (with folding stock) in your sleeping bag. I need to be ready too so I use a 10 round mag which does not stick out.
Many people scoff at the fact that a .22 rifle is viable for anything but shooting small game. However, many people do not realize how deadly that.22 round actualy is.
I am a retired law enforcement officer and I had first hand observations of deaths from .22 rounds. Also, the Isreal army uses the Ruger 10/22 in urban warfare.
As a Jew I spent time with the IDF (Israel’s army) and we used NOT the Ruger 10/22 but rather the Tavor-21. The 10/22 is used by the IDF ONLY for when “less then lethal” force is needed in such as riot happens or for use with sound suppressed shots. But never would a 10/22 be used in direct combat. You seek a weapon to hunt, protect your family, or perhaps even more better get something with a bit more power. The 5.56, 7.62, 9mm,.40, are all fine. Stay with FMJ military ammo. Have no less then 1 or 2 thousand rounds and learn how to use it. Don’t go for fancy head shots just aim at center of mass. Forget the silly cowboy guns, forget the bolt actions, and forget thinking your going to be able to just pick-up ammo form the dead, you have no way to know what or who is out there. You need a true proven modern people killer. Yes, a gun to kill people because that’s what’s coming to kill you. Remember; modern, combat proven semi-auto rifles that shoot center fire ammo.
Most patriots have bolt action deer rifles. I’ll throw in with them. You army types can stick with you under powdered POS.
Why be so angry…if you like it (whatever the weapon) use it and let others make their own choice in peace…why do you feel the need for others people’s approval…live and let live.
Well you can shoot once every few minutes if you like, not I!!
A 22 would be my first choice for all the above reasons. The ammo would also be a valuable barter item. An avid sportsman, I own all the weapons above and then some. Should chaos erupt, gangs could end up working together in mass. That’s when you would want that AR by your side.
12 gauge pump in a quality piece. Load it with double ought buck and stay away from crowds.
A .22 by far is the best choice in a shtf situation. In my younger days I was thinking firepower, so I stocked up. An AK, several SKS rifles, and A LOT of ammo. Here in the past couple of years I’ve been re-thinking my strategies. I’ve already got the firearms and ammo. If I’m holed up somewhere then I’m set. Nothing to worry about, 7.62 X 39 all day long. But if I’ve gotta “head to the hills” there’s no way I can pack all of that. Good luck carrying several thousand rounds of 7.62 ammo on foot. On the other hand, it wouldn’t be that much of a problem packing a few thousand rounds of .22 ammo. Plus it’s the most common caliber in the world. Don’t forget about a good sidearm. Other than one in .22 caliber, I would also recommend a .357 mag revolver or a 9mm pistol. Both very common calibers. Don’t forget you can also shoot .38 special out of that .357 mag revolver. Above all else shot placement is the most important. Know your firearm. A few hits with a .22 are worth far more than a hundred misses with a larger caliber. Good luck to everyone, and may God help us all.
A .22 is the most common caliber in the world, and it is the easiest to pack if you gotta hit the road.
Hell you can carry 500 rounds of .22 in ONE pants pocket long as the pants fit right and your belt’s tight!
Is that a brick of .22 LR, or you happy to see me?
Hopefully a pocket full of .22’s. :)
I think a .22 is fine as long as the other guy isn’t armed with a gun. If he has a higher calibur gun and is firing back, is on drugs, or pumped full of Adrenaline, you might have problems. I certainly do think the .22 is far better than nothing … and there were some really valid points made about being able to carry a lot of the .22 ammo easily, the inexpensive nature of the ammo, and controlability of the firearm, but again, I don’t like my odds with that gun in a combat situation with another armed individual … or in a situation where I need to try to take down big game … good luck! You’ll injur a lot of large animals, but you likely won’t get much home to your freezer without an amazing shot. In terms of rifles, there are a lot of good options out there at a variety of price points. I have a Springfield M1A that I love. It’s a very reliable gun that takes up to 20 round magazines. The .380 ammo will easily take down just about anything that it meets up with. I too have shot .22’s since the days of scout camp many years ago and think they’re a great gun to have on hand. But if I were to only have one rifle in my home for hunting and self defence, it certainly wouldn’t be a .22
I think the Glock 19 is a great handgun. I’ve also been really impressed with the Sprinfield XD and the XDM. They’ve been super reliable and accurate for me.
In any SHTF situation, most game animals will be hunted almost to extinction in no time. It happened in the 1930s when there were waaaaay fewer people hunting them. The yahoos shooting at deer, etc with whatever pistol they happen to own will scare off all the tame deer us suburbanites are used to seeing in the yard. Many of us would be hunting dogs, and even they would quickly catch on.
My dad said that in Korea during the war, a dog would come right up to an American, but would run from a Korean, because Koreans ate dogs. The dogs could smell the difference.
four survival weapons for the wilderness I would chose is the the .22, a bolt action 300 win mag or 30-06, then a M1911, and then a mossberg 870 12 gauge. Then four survival weapons for the urban environment I would chose is the FN five seven and a tactical 12 gauge shotgun and a AR-15 and a AK with a drum magazine as a light machine gun
I don’t know guys. That’s a hard one. Depends on the situation. Bug in: SKS, 870, cz 527, hi cap 45. Bug out in car: every gun I own. Bug out on foot: cz 527, kel tec sub 2000, 10/22 and Ruger sp101 (357). To me on foot is about getting the most bang for weight carried. AR, sks, ak47, socom ect are just too heavy even without ammo. Shottie? Ditto, unless a single shot. The cz 527 carbine (7.62×39) is a 300 yard gun. Not a sniper but I never claimed to be one and most folks aren’t proficient even at 300 yards. Kel tec close range defense. 10/22 small game and defense. SP101 close defense and can be used for hunting in a pinch. ALSO, never, ever buy a revolver in .38 special. It can only shoot .38s. The same model .357 magnum adds negligible weight or dimensions. .38 only caliber severly limits the guns usefulness.
What, no minigun like Jessie Ventura had?
Love the Ruger SP101 in .357 mag. Have taken deer with it. Yes, it only holds 5 rounds, but you can get speed loaders that help manage your ammo. Another consideration would be a complement lever action in .357 like a Henry Big Boy. Nothing beats a Remington 870. There may be equals, but usually cost more. A scoped bolt action rifle in .308 Winchester, 30-06 Rem, or .270 Winchester. In that order. I would get a 9mm pistol, Glock 19, Browning Hi-Power, Ruger, S&W, Kimber, Beretta 92, etc. .22 is an obvious staple. Buy what you like 10/22 or equal, plus consider a .22 pistol or revolver. Personal favorite is the Walther PPK/S. Last, but not least would be a .223 a AR platform or at least Ruger Ranch Rifle. The final word is that you must be prepared to shoot US military ammo. Once accomplished go spend you $$$$ on what ever caliber/gun/ammo/reloading supplies your little heart desires. Have a great week….
I have to agree with brad, for the most part. I would think you will be on foot unless you live in the middle of nowhere, or at least i will. I love my Ruger revolvers both sp101 and 100, they go off everytime until the are empty, and taught my girl friend to use them easily. now my 1911 is another matter she can pull the trigger and hit the target but she has a hard time manipulating the the saftys and the mag release and reloading. I also like my marlin .22 mag with a 9 power scope, ammo is still light weight and a little more knock down than a standard .22. I think a small single shot 12 or 20 gauge would be good for gathering small game and deer with slugs, but ammo gets heavy. i think semi auto rifles to be a waste of weight and space, because if you are walking out you probably won’t be able to carry enough ammo to be able to use it to your advantage, so a good scoped rifle that a person is proficient with would be better.
also i wouldn’t have anything with a laser, worst case you may not be able to get batteries then you have to learn how to shoot it without the laser when you may have limited amount of ammo.
I just bought a Remington 870 pump for close range, and now I was looking for another medium range gun for deer or game. I have an AR but that isnt that good for larger game. I was thinking of a marlin 336 lever in 30-30 or an AK. An AK shoots faster but I think the marlin would be better for hunting.
Love the Marlin 30/30. It will take down anything your hunting in the lower 48 states except for maybe a grizzly in a couple of states. Can be fitted with a scope and ammo is easy to get as it is very common.
I like the Marlin better than the Winchester. No 30 rd mags, but in most situations you would be able to shoot one, load one…
Pick a Marlin in the .35 caliber. My reasoning is, common bullet size to reload in the Marlin, 38 specials, and 357 Magnum. I cast .357 in 158 grain round nose and semi wad cutter. I am sure I can find 180 or 200 grain molds and keep the speed below 1200 fps. to avoid leading.
A 22 rifle is a must have. In a mobile situation, a light weight or take down rifle would be best. A nylon 66 or Papoose would be good picks. I have an ar7 which I would not recommend. It is light but at least mine only likes certain ammo. The sights are crude and trigger pull is not on par with the other rifles. The ar 7 has no sling attachments yet one can improvise. Yes it can be packed into its own stock and floats. I have a Thompson Center 22 rifle that is very accurate, dependable and has a quick detach scope. The iron sights are very good. If I was carrying more than one rifle I would choose the nylon 66. It is very light weight and can be scoped and has acceptable iron sights. Again it is a compromise. The nylon 66 is very dependable, loads through the stock so no malfunctioning mags to worry about and seems to shoot various 22 lr. ammo.
If you are by yourself then weight will be an issue especially in a bug out situation. I would probably take my
car 15 as a first choice. I wouldn’t take a sks or m1a because I don’t have one. I do have a M1 garand and carbine which are good in their own right. I also have several 1903s, some with scopes and a m40a1 clone. The car 15 is a compromise between accuracy, power, dependability and weight. The best chance of survival is not being alone. A group offers the capability of fielding several different weapons with different capabilities.
When considering any survival weapon one would be wise to consider threats at night and how to best deal with them. The advantage of the car 15 is that dedicated light and laser systems are easily adaptable to this platform. It is also easy to install a night vision scope on the car 15 that is quick detachable. Those who say they see no need for a laser on your rifle must not have used one. They give you an edge of quickly and accurately engaging targets at close range in low light. I would suggest shooting at night using iron sights and see how you do.
Even though I shot and carried handguns for years, a handgun may not be worth the extra weight in a bug out situation. For a bug in situation a handgun is fine along with a shotgun or m1 carbine or car 15. The 223 with the right loading is probably the least likely to go through numerous walls and kill your neighbors if you miss your intended target,
The downside to the 223 is the reported lack of power with fmj ammo especially at range when the round
goes below 2700 fps. I believe that accuracy can overcome some of this lack of power. I have found with my
car 15 that it had so so accuracy with regular hard ball ammo. With reloads it became a tack driver. Head shots
became duck soup with a scope and geissele trigger even at range.
If I lived in Alaska or remote area I would probably take the m1 garand or 1903 and my model 19 in 357.
In that environment having a more powerful rifle would be a first priority and defense capability second.
Civilians are not concerned with the Hague convention rules on expanding bullets (The U.S. government will torture and kill you or indefinitly detain you (NDAA) upon capture anyway). Take a file to the tips of FMJ rounds. You will affect accuracy, but at urban or suburban ranges, it won’t matter.
History being; a downed barrel changer, dead ammo feeder, and melted 50 barrel, I know the visual of the soles of sandals due to a .45… I know the 22 tops U.S. deaths, must have merit… I like Michael C.”s thought and go for the unmentioned CAR-15… .223, NATO rounds, AK, and others that top the availability list are what you want. 22 in the U.S. is in that list, my Marlin and Whetherby 22’s go with the CAR-15. I’ll take them and a .45 for the get out and run choice… Survive-All…
Info, worth cross reference: “North Carolina Gun Ban During Hurricane Earl” Otter says:
June 26, 2011 at 7:56 AM
Your statements are in line with mine. That there is an antecedence, a primo, or base foundation to statements to follow in the deftly written language presented as a “Bill of Rights”. Please bear with me as this is the truth of the paradox of the writing of laws. This has been picked apart for the use of debate largely in courts as it is in short double talk or written as a compromise and inherently grey or rather imprecise in what seems at first glance straight forward. The foundational system is the organization of legislature to put a Big But.. into Bill as it was in this case the 2nd Amendment. Most people have never looked at or read it so I quote… 2nd Amendment… “A well regulated militia, , being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.” … So there it is. The premise of this statement comes from the antecedence. In this case a well regulated militia… All that follows is subject to that. ” being necessary to the security of a free state “. Here we have No capital letters there could have been a version that had five. The most key being free state; there is no specific out lay of black and white intent, except that it is positioned after the primo statement and hence carries secondary weight. I hope that our intelligentsia, our most capable readership do not need all of the nuances explained form here on out. You get the picture, each comma-no capital letters and diminishing value of merit as this near run on sentence continues… ( free state; not a Free State; or a free State, or a Free state… ) Next in this down play is “the right of the people to keep and bear arms, ” Which people ?, By here we have the third least in value aspect statement saying that a militia, that is a necessary militia, necessary for an ambiguous free state ( Say your state of mind, or free land in some condition or state. ) Are you in this flow? I’m not the anti-gun law persona, any of you that have read “Otter” knows that: so no negative feedback, please just read and learn. The closure a cloture; ” shall not be infringed.” , is of least relevance and is subject to all of the four prior statements with there complete vagaries. Grey areas written in legalese to appease the legislature and therefore gain passage and subsequent ratification. The end all of this is see how portions and placement are why these things can so easily be ignored. They really, really, really, don’t exist in the first place. what we have is a “Republic divided into “States”, that have a Federal “militia” or bringing it home, “Alphabets” ( F.B.I. , S.S., A.T.F, D.E.A. so on… ) and then State Police with their specialists, followed by the least powerful in this pyramid all of the local branches with their different names depending on your location. Them with their versions of S.W.A.T. etc… Well, there it is a 2nd Amendment over-view with it’s none existent right for “The People” to have or bear arms. That’s how so many laws in so many states have created battles 2nd Amendment rights only to fail. The chipping away continues and bottom line this is during times with no extenuating circumstances like martial law. In complacent belief of the deliberate semantics of a diminishing statement gives “The People” the exclusion of the “Right”. That again isn’t my belief system it’s just an edification I hope, you will, having read gleaned why it is that we don’t trust Government to legislate to protect us from ourselves… Survive-All…
June 26, 2011 at 8:29 AM
Otter’s- P.S.-From prior… ( “what we have is a “Republic divided into “States” , that have a Federal “mIlitia” … ) By this if it wasn’t clear enough I mean the Armed Forces of the U.S… Followed by Federal law enforcement, then State, then Local Law…
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Here here, take a look at huricane Katrina the militia ie: National Guard, local police were going door to door taking weapons. An elderly woman with a small bore pistol (revolver) was forced to give it up. The Governor gave the police a shoot to kill order. Which did more damage and caused more kaos then good. So if anyone honestly believes that door to door searches are not going to happen you my friend already have a lot to learn about our great government. They want you weak and helpless. Best bet DO NOT let on that you have anything, have secret hiding places ie: such as unseen doors in walls in your home, use weapons only when needed, have food and ammo stored, keep family close and only friends that you can honestly trust, and if someone comes begging for help send them away. If they don’t leave take care of the business at hand. You have to remember in a situation such as Katrina you and you alone are going to have to take care of yourself. As for the weapons I prefer. Of course a 10/22 w/high power scope good for long range. Mossburg 188 pump 12ga NO PLUG 5 in the tube and 1 in the pipe w/a slug barrol and pistol grip, all is easy take down, for good mid range and medium game an M1 Carbine, and a Barreta 9mm PXStormD just in case you need something for close range. And soon to be getting an M1 Garand in 30-06 (not the 30cal. No sence in having 2 rifles with the same caliber). And last but not least enough ammo stored up for all weapons and a good water and food supply. Martial law will be in effect.
That is the liberal LA & NO gov’t at the time for ya. Over here in MS, we were armed and openly carrying.
“Militia” in the 2nd Amendment references Article I, Section 8, clauses 15 and 16. There the Federal Gov’t only has delegated power to GOVERN such part of the militia that is called into service and EMPLOYED. Therfore, the Feds have NO delegated power over “the right of the people to keep and bear (carry) arms.”
None of this will matter in a crisis. Our thug government will take every gun they can. If you are found to have supplies stockpiled, they will be stolen by the thugs in blue or camo. You will be killed or your family seperated and sent to camps where you will end up dead after prolonged abuse and suffering. Act accordingly.
The word militia had 2 meanings. Much is now forgotten. Our forefathers read from the Scottish enlightenment. They were ALL embarrassed about how poorly and cowardly the low landers fought in 1745. Many came to believe to to keep a Republic free it needed warriors like the Highlanders of their day. They belived it was more than trained but also men who had courage and HONOR. When the highlanders came to Edinburgh all the lowlanders hid like cowards. The backbone of the continental army was the much despised Ulster or Irish Scots. All could shoot and did not take crap from any one. They called them bad names like rednecks and crackers because they did know their place in front of “higher classes” Evan George Washington said when we have lost the war I shall go west with the Ulster Scotts and fight to the end. Buy the way All of those men were deeply religious.
@ Ken, I am joyous that you are home, with life looking positive and You clearly editing my submissions once again. Thank you and telling All that before you type give your positive juice to our hosts… Survive-All…
I support the 22 first people out there. Just wanted to add, my option used is a single six convertable.
with scope this can put food on my plate from 100 yards. I can up the power to 22wmr and even use
hornadays critical defence ammo.
cons, dificult to conceal, longer reloading time (use a piece of tubing for a straw technique).
second is a break barrel shotgun or duble. I use good quality reloadable shells, as I have an old lee handloader.
I have it in the pack with plenty of primers and powder. In a pinch, I will reload with 7/8-1 oz of any gravel
yes, I may ruin the barrel eventualy, or maybe not. the powder can be used for other things as well, like fire starter.
ccw “belly gun” I have NAA’s black widow in 22 mag. (same ammo as the single six). and am looking at S&W’s 351pd
at 10.5 oz 7 round cyl. and a pocket holster.
also thompson center’s handguns with barrel swaps to fit common ammo I might run across. they even have 410
wonder if I can score doves with that?
thanks for reading, Of coarse my opinion is to avoid conflict and servive. Once all the ar’s and AK’s have anialated each other, I’ll go see if there’s any beer left in there pantry…sorry…”servival bunker”..
P.S. there are no poisonous birds… unless someone makes them that way.
P.S. almost forgot, surviving on foot plan… modified cart (golf dolly or hand truck) to hitch to light pack.
I live in AZ and need water which is heavy and I have a bad back. pelican cases loaded with rations ammo and other servival stuff. tobacco for barter maybe some nice shampoo to barter a womans favor :)
Interesting comments above. I carried a CZ75 for nearly twenty years while overseas. Used to cast and load my own rounds. Never, ever, had a jam. Now I am retired in the UK that is all a dream. But I do have a .22 AIR rifle! I use it to keep my eye in and also for picking off rats that raid my bird feeder. Will have to try it on rabbits one day. :-)
@ klipsch, I always loved the consistency of the” widow”. In youth; farming; we had the “Eskimo Rifles” .223. They were the B.I.A. hand out rifle for walrus hunting and bear protection. We had .22 “Wasps and Hornet” hand guns, power and precession. After planting, the youngest would have to walk the fields with a .410 to keep the crows from eating seed prior to germination. I have fired closer than a raised grouse and the deal with the .410 was it never took down a crow. Grandfather later in life confided that it was the safest rifle for the age to use and that it was the noise that was the deterrent not the shot. It was a right of passage to be given the .410 and guard the fields. Generally a.308 was the deer rifle, though the .223 was the creator of much venison steak, stew, and burgers. Personally , I’ve always loved that S.&W. .44 special. Not great on ammo status these days it’s mostly home grown as it’s so old school. You aim down range, fire, get kicked by a mule, hear the report, and have time to think, how did I miss that stump I put up on that chopping block. Then in slow motion that bucked log gets hit and goes flying. Well this was supposed to be my Saturday morning .410 critique and it became story time. Hope you are well out there and keep watching the metals going up. If the dow jones starts to crash get your fed. notes in hand and buy physical gold passed into your hand on the spot. If you can’t find gold suppliers willing to sell as they know the system, then get foods and water systems as those retailers generally aren’t in touch with the big picture and how it will come down. Adieux… Survive-All…
Getting the right survival weapon isn’t very hard. First your location/
enviroment, second is your ability to use and handle any weapon and last
is your needs. I live in remote desert area, and my picks are a bolt action
30-06, semi-auto 45 acp, a bolt action 22lr, 12 gauage pump shotgun, and
a semi-auto rifle in a 7.62×39.
Gandyman, I’ll pack ammo for you any day and I’ll tote my own weapons, same calibers.
Choosing the top four survival guns is dependent on the factors adroitly outlined by Gandyman. Once these are determined it is much easier to make solid selections.
As to the four selected, while I agree that they are all good choices my own personal choices would substitute a 1911 .45 in lieu of the Glock 19, and my AK84/S in lieu of the AR15.While I have owned both of these firearms in the past and agree they are fine guns, I must confess to being an “Old School” type who prefers the substantial feel of a 1911 and the rugged reliability of the simpler AK design to the black and polymer guns. While I also own several hi-cap wonder nines and don’t discount their capabilities, I still believe that the good ‘ol .45 ACP hits harder.
If I were ever to move to Alaska, I would substitute a Ruger Redhawk .44 and a Browning BAR in .338 for the 1911 and AK84/S. Hopefully I could still access my other firearms, but could make due with only these four.
May God bless America and make these choices a moot and strictly fun issue.
Pump 12ga;.22; 1911.45; 30-30. And don’t forget you knife.
I agree with the authors statement on pistols. A good 357 is usable by all, can be hunted with and if it does not go on the first try you just try again. no smokestack or jams.
Saw this and had to add my comment to the other 41. A friend and I were having this discussion the other day, and came up with virtually the exact same guns in the same order, with the exception of the mossberg 500 instead of the 870…
Most SHTF cases will be over in 3 days. Your BOB will get you through it. Add a .357 magnum revolver with good sights and 6 inch barrel for self defense. You won’t need anything else.
In a true survival scenario (long term SHTF case), you have to think about the situations you would find yourself in, then think about the most common (multi use) tools to resolve issues on a “good enough” basis. When it comes to SD and food gathering (hunting), there are only a few situations.
Case 1: Someone wants to harm you. He will harm you. Because he planned to harm you. If he is going to get you with a trap of some sort, no weapon will help you. If he is going to get you using a rifle, you won’t even know what hit you (if he knows what he is doing). So, in that case, there isn’t much that could help you. Don’t be a target. Low profile. Hide as much as possible. Be a snow leopard. Scout your path. Don’t stay next to common gathering places. Don’t show yourself unless you want to show yourself.
Case 2: Someone wants to harm you but he didn’t have time to plan. Carry a good revolver, .357 magnum; 6 inch barrel; add good sights on it; will be also a good choice for medium game if you are close enough. Also most GSW in urban settings happen in 20 to 25 feet distance. A good .357 magnum revolver is all you need.
Case 3: You want to harm someone (to get they stuff or get them before they get you). Depends on your environment, but you better be able to reach him before he has a chance to reach you. Get a scout rifle (with iron sights as backup). Savage Scout .308. Best choice. Make sure you use scout sights. I would go with a Leupold FX-II 2.5x28mm IER Scout riflescope on that Savage Scout .308. This is also your primacy medium to large hunting rifle (if you need to use a rifle to hunt). Forget about LRH rifles sniper stuff et cetera. Your target is not sitting around at 1 miles distance in the open. Unless you are in some mountainous area, you really won’t need it. The only advantage of a .300 win mag or a 7 mm mag or a .338 LM is that you can reach him before he can reach you. But if you are not stationary and he is not stationary, then it makes no difference. You will be in less than 600 meter range, so a .308 is just as effective (maybe not as flat shooting). But your .308 will last you far longer, and the round is the most popular one in its class.
Case 4: There is lots of heat around and you need to go thorough it. Shotgun. Pump action. 12 ga. Ability to handle any load. I would go with a Remington 887 Nitro Mag (with turkey barrel 22 inches). This is also good enough for most hunting needs.
Case 5: You want to hunt. I would bank on my recurve take down bow. 60#. Won’t run out of arrows that easily. Traps are good. Fishing gear. Again, very light. If you are skilled enough, you can get anything with that set up. Now, in a survival situation, you are competing with someone else who wants to get your game. And so, there you have your .308 and your shotgun and your .357 revolver as backup.
Case 6: Long term out of other ammunition and need to get small to medium sized game down. .22 LR. A must have in survival situation. Simply because it is a must. AR-7. Just leave it in the backpack. Or maybe a Kel-Tec SU-22. It is a take down. Have it with some 300+ rounds just in case you run out of everything else. Frankly, I would just keep a Ruger Mark III Hunter pistol. But you never know how bad things get, and you may need the extra barrel length for getting that medium sized deer down with that well placed shot. I would stick with the Ruger Mark III Hunter pistol.
Case 7: You are going to be in a urban area where you will be engaging others who want your stuff. You need a serious enough semi. Go with a Kel Tec SU-16. This could also be a good hunting rifle for up to 200 meter for medium game. You can add any
Case 8: Close and personal. Make sure you have a WASP Injector Knife. Also, pepper spray and/or other forms of repellents.
But your most important weapon is your body. Make sure you see your dentist on time and keep things clean. Nails. Keep it all clean. One small problem, and your chances are reduced a few folds. Stay fit. Understand your environment. Learn various survival techniques. Learn how to conserve your energy. Stay fit. And remember, we are pack animals. You won’t be able to survive alone. So, improve your social skills. Learn how to do fix things, build things, grow things. Learn how to interpret multiple inputs before making decision. Think how to think on your feet. Get lost and find yourself again. Kill something. I mean it. Go hunting. Kill a deer. Cut its head off. Skin it. Learn how to clean it up using little water. Learn about traps. Learn first air. Learn not to panic. Your mind and body are your most potent weapons. All that ammunition and weapons won’t help you if you can’t use it effectively.
So, here is the summary:
.357 magnum revolver 6” barrel [ 2 lbs ]
.308 Savage Scout rifle w/ Leupold FX-II 2.5x28mm IER Scout riflescope [ 7 lbs ]
— OR —
.223 Kel Tec SU-16 w/ Leupold FX-II 2.5x28mm IER Scout riflescope (if you are in a mostly urban environment and a long rifle is just not something you want to carry around) [ 7 lbs ].
.22 LR pistol Ruger Mark III Hunter [ 1 lbs ]
12 ga Remington 887 Nitro Mag (with turkey barrel 22 inches) [ 7 lbs ]
So, this comes to 17 lbs in firearms alone. Add the rounds for them, and you have 30 lbs. Add water (10 liters at all times for safety = 20+ lbs) and whatever else you have in your backpack, and you are at near 70 lbs. You can carry 35% of your target weight if you are fit (unless you go sheep hunting, which is then 20% to 30% if you are really fit). My target fit weight is 165 lbs. That means I can carry 60 lbs safely on long distances and not harm my knees et cetera. So, then the 70 lbs is a bit over the limit, but this being a SHTF situation, I won’t be running around in the mountains. So, I should be OK.
To Ken and all the readers of this blog:
This was a fun blog simply to read the comments to the original article. I hesitate to send this blog in because I remember that the biggest cause of arguements within a gunshop or sporting goods store is to talk about weapons selection when/if the SHTF. Gun nuts are the most opinionated group of people I have met and I am one of them myself. I have submitted one blog that you all may have read already on living without power long ago. In that article, I mentioned what I used and some of my recent upgrades.
My wife and friends have told me I should write a book or article based on the animal control work I did those many years ago. (about the same time I was living off-grid) I did some of this work on a professional basis as part of my job description as a government worker. Most of this work was done on an informal basis to do favors to ranchers to gain access to hunting private land or through short-term contracts through cities and municipalities.
Nuisance animal control is a hush-hush subject in that NO government agency likes to admit that they use lethal means because it is BAD for public relations. A high premium was placed on safety, stealth and finally…effectiveness. Anybody who does this work will understand the need for secrecy. I have already had my truck vandalized by animal rights activists who located us due to unauthorized press releases.
Anyway, My thoughts on weapons for the taking of various game animals and current upgrades:
(1) The .22 rifle: a must have in that ammo is available on all continents and it does a good job in putting down critters if placed properly and hollow points are used. These days in North America, I have replaced a lot of my small game shooting with the new .17 HMR. It has better terminal effects and the animal does not crawl off and die in its hole. The .17 HMR also does not have the ricochet problem. The bullet will destroy itself within a gallon jug of water. But, fact is way back when, the times I shot various small game within my area, I used a .22 long rifle. The 17 HMR was not even invented yet. Bottom line: .22 long rifle because it is almost universally available. I hunted with CCI minimag hollow points and tried for head shots if I was hunting for meat or bounty.
(2) The .17 HMR (Hornady Magnum Rimfire) is a recent invention that is rapidly gaining popularity. The rifles give you slightly better range than the 22 LR and the 17 grain Hornady Bullet will destroy itself within the target. I have used the 17 HMR to remove mid-sized canines from within suburbs and it works quite well. No collateral damage reports were filed afterwards. The bullets came apart within the chest cavity without exiting. Now becoming widely available in the US, it is a round designed for prairie dogs but it is a very efficient cartridge that kills out of proportion to its size.
(3) The .223 Remington in a Bolt-action rifle. This is the workhorse in animal control around cities and airports. A lightweight, frangible bullet placed in the chest cavity will put down deer-sized animals without exiting. I reload the Barnes Varmint Grenade in California (lead free zone), Nosler ballistic tips in 50 grain, Hornady V-Max in 50 grain and the Hornady SX (Super-explosive) bullets long ago. All have been used with good success in the past and I still use them today.
(4) The 30-06 using 150 grain Nosler Partitions in reloaded cases/bolt-action rifle. I have used this rifle for rogue black bears and feral pigs within California prior to the lead-free law. It works and it is also widely available. If you gun-nuts wonder why I chose such a plain-jane caliber, The answer is I found a bunch of used rifles at the gun shops and estate sales. Apparently, todays hunters want something faster, sexier or more modern. (hence the numerous trade-ins.) Before you drop a lot of money on the latest magnum out there, I would like to remind the hunters out there that this 100+ year-old cartridge still works just fine and you can find ammo for it in a lot of places. Do not be surprised to see the clerk yawn as they ring up your box of shells.
(5) As a side-note to gun-control laws: doesn’t the 30-06 rifle and the 1911 handgun qualify as historical pieces these days? (both of them being 100 or more years old)
Shotguns are a whole different catagory and could be addressed within a book. Maybe next time.
Off topic a bit…was wondering if anyone could recommend a pair of hearing protection sets that have the acoustical option so you can hear when there is not a loud percussion? Something slimline if possible.
I happen to have my Midway-USA catalog beside my computor (Master catalog #34) On pages129-131 has a variety of electronic hearing protectors/enhancers. The muffs are affordable starting at about $30 and upward. (up to $200) The inside-the ear plugs are anywhere from $80 to $400.
You do bring up a very good point in that all of us who have shot a lot over the years have some hearing loss. (my own is a 20% loss of high frequency bilateral loss.) I suspect most of mine was due to the many group hunts with shotguns and dogs over fields in my younger years.
The brand I use when I was a rangemaster and now that I continue to help others at sight-in service is Peltor brand products. I have had good luck with their stuff over the years. In the field, on varmint shoots, I use plugs made of foam.
For those days I am beside people firing 300 mags and bigger with muzzlebrakes, I use both plugs, ear muffs, shooting glasses and I find myself leaving within 30 min or less. The concussion will give you a nasty headache that even Excedrin will not be able to fix. I would rather go eat lunch and wait for the big-boomers to vacate the shooting benches.
If I could only have one weapon for SHTF, it would be a 10-22 with a 16″ integrally suppressed barrel from Tactical Solutions, a Kidd trigger, an NDS Picatinny rail with integral iron sights, an Aimpoint and a paracord sling. Light, accurate, and very quiet if you need to stay ‘under the radar’.
If I could add a second, it would be a Kahr P9 9mm pistol. Light and comfortable enough to have on all the time, and so discrete that it doesn’t attract any attention.
Third would be an AR-15 with a 16″ barrel, a collapsing stock and an ACOG. It’ll get the job done on anything up to deer, and I can’t think of anything better for home defense. Greater magazine capacity and range than a shotgun, and less risk of misses and over-penetration with the right ammunition.
The problem with shotguns as survival weapons is that the ammunition weighs more than the animals you are likely to bag with them.
We all tend to have Walter Mitty fantasies about grizzlies and moose, but unless you live in rural Alaska or British Columbia, a big-bore rifle is just dead weight in a survival situation. I love hunting with my old Sako .308 and Marlin .45-70, but if SHTF, they’ll be staying home in the safe.
If .22 is adequate, why not just get an air rifle? Some are as powerful if not more powerful. You don’t have to reload ammo or stock up on black powder. Just cast your bullet in .177 or .22 and you are done. I have seen some online videos of big game hunt with air rifles. Just a thought…
I think that the whole point has been missed in the comments. My point being buy what you can afford, practice with it, and have an ample amount of ammunition.
You can never go wrong with “standard cal” weapons. By standard I mean what LE and the Military use.
1) .22 bolt action and Ruger 10-22. Heck when the ammo is on sale you can buy a brick of the stuff $5.00
2) Two .357 revolvers. 357’s can fire both 357 and 38 I like that and again ammo is inexpensive
3) Glock’s in .40SW The 40 is becoming more popular in my area over both the 9mm and 45 but I have one of each of those as well just very little ammo on hand for either. I have plenty of 40 in the safe. (Provided on D-Day I can get to the safe)
4) Mossburg is my choice in shotgun. They are simple stupid and can go through 100’s if not 1000’s of rounds before problems exist. One Model 500 is in the 18″, pistol grip mode the other is dressed out. I like that they can take 3″ and 2 3/4 12ga. My 410 and 20ga are both single shot Remington’s. Pretty hard to have a problem with a single shot.
5) One AR-15 H-Bar, one Rem700 .308 SPS Both have huge optics as I am a former Long Rile Observer and ammo again is easy to obtain and used throughout the Country.
6) A Sig .45 and a Ruger 44Mag Redhawk
Kind of a mix and match but good general combo. My lack of a 9mm should be made up by the others but again, in my area 9mm is falling from grace quickly. I have enough ammunition around if needed and God forbid when it does happen my priorities will be water, food, find ammo.
Also remember to have a few good blades in your kit. Besides being an all around tool you have to know your backstop with a gun of any kind. Even a non-trained person can close 21′ as fast if not faster than many can pull the trigger.
As a veteran, I prefer a caring liberal watching my back than a conservative looking out for number one. Chicken-hawk politicians and officers buck for rank by risking soldiers lives while they stay safely in undisclosed locations. In combat, officers who don’t take care of their men don’t last long. In Vietnam, many got fragged or “accidentally” shot.
That said, with one well placed small caliber bullet, a good marksman can do the job of many bad ones loaded down with heavy ammo and big guns. Whatever weapon you choose is not going to be very effective and could well get you discovered and killed if you do not hit your target in the first shot. Target practice is key. You must know where your shots will hit at different ranges.
For close combat, I suggest the practice of instinct shooting. A BB gun is the best tool to learn it with, but you can use a 22 with shorts for this. A good instinct marksman can shoot an aspirin out of the air and I’ve seen one shoot a BB out of the air with another BB. It will make you into an excellent trap and skeet shooter also. But if you can hit a flying coin with a BB Gun, you will be able to hit a running shooter with a larger rifle.
The amount of legislation liberals pass was not enough to keep oligarchy banks and their conservative help from destroying the economy.
The problem I have with some liberals is that they have swallowed the government line about staying unarmed instead of listening to Washington and Jefferson about the need for guns, making libs easy prey.
My combat experience showed that contrary to popular thought, liberals tend to be good soldiers because they care about people and ethics. Conservatives only need you to keep them safe or making them money. I witnessed enough fear driven and brutal mob behavior from conservatives and enough heroism from liberals to change my mind about things.
This article refers to an interesting study of the conservative mind that we might read if we can take some self-criticism:
I’m a gunsmith in ALabama. I own every gun i talk about and have worked with MOST of the firearms mentioned.
I have an ar-15, and it just blows through ammo. I reacently purchased a mossberg MVP bolt action, it’s in 223 and takes standard AR mags plus helps slow down my ammo fire.
I also have a mossberg 835 ultimag and quite a bit of 3 1/2 in. 000 buckshot so that should kill most everything that gets too close to me.
I have a rio grande by rossi in 45-70 gov’t, it’s lever action and almost guranteed to kill everything i can hit.
I have a sig 1911 and 4 mags. if something is close enough for me to pull my sidearm it should be gone before i fire 29 rounds and reload 3 times.
And obviousley the trusty 22. i’ve had bad experiences with Ruger 10/22’s. So I keep my grandfather’s Remington Speedmaster.
I preffer the mossberg 835 over the remington 870 because i do alot of gunsmithing. it’s a bit more finicky than most mossbergs. the mossberg 835 is much less troublesome when working with it as well.
The AR is just as reliable as the AK47 (mud packed or not). The only thing the AK really has over the AR is simplicity. if you know what you’re doing it makes no real difference. Plus, less people walk away from a shot from a 223 than from 7.62, it’s just statistics. So, shut up about it and quit arguing. they’re both fine guns.
I just added a Vepr in 308 to my collection and is the first and only ak type rifle I own. I also shoot a M1 garand and carbine, 1903s, car 15 and others. The Vepr, after about 3-400 rounds, all reloads, appears to be very reliable and a breeze to clean. From the bench, it will group under an inch with reloads at 50 yards (5 shot groups) using the existing iron sights. The down side is the scope mount. Trying two different side mounts and scopes I did not have much luck keeping it zeroed so may opt for a forward scout mount that works well on the garand and carbine. For a 308 rifle, the Vepr does not seem to have much recoil. The stock trigger is pretty good and much better than on the m1 carbine. The safety on the ak is solid but awkward to engage compared to the car 15 or m1s. The ak in Vepr form would be a dependable and rugged performer and in 308 a powerful weapon. If one wanted a rifle that didn’t require much maintenance and still work this would be a good pick. If I want to do head shots at 200 plus yards then I want the car 15 with a scope or other option. A SCAR or other main battle rifle would probably do things better than the Vepr but cost considerably more.
I have been reading alot of blogs on the best survival gun out there I would have to say the best one is a loaded one. that said I have plenty of guns i could choose from but i think that an o/u in a 22/20ga would be first choice as ammo is easy to buy and they break down and mine fits into my bag easy without any one seeing it. have taken it with me for years now. next it depends on where you are. at rifle would be a lever action. I have a great 30/30 and a 45/70 both light weight and very handy. I once saw a guy take down a bison with a 30/30 and iron sights. broke its neck one shot. so practice makes perfect. shot gun 12ga mossberg pump and rifle would be either my 308 or my 30-06. hand gun i like my S&W 22 and my S&W 357mag both with a 6 inch barrel. by the way I would never by a 38. the 357 is better and you could use 38s in it also with moon clip. you could .380 auto and 9mm auto think about that.
your are right that a semi-automatic is what most police use as dictated by thier dept heads demained as the general public has gone to alsoo using semis I work for the Feds. in a high security area that only hire ex police when asked about which gun they thought about the same ques. they all said that altho thier main gun was a semi-auto thier back-up was always a revolver, more relibable and no loss of power due to recycling of spent and receiving a new bullet also better able to control, and no worries about jamming. dont know where you live but I live on the east coast and plenty of different ammo here, also the 45/70 and 30.06 will bring down any thing 2 or 4 legged both are used all over the world for hunting including Africa and on big game in Alaska, I whatched a guide take down a pissed off grizzle with a 45/70, but like as stated the best gun is a loaded one and also one you used to.
I also have a SKS in a 7.62×39 and also find handy to about 300yds and never had problem with it but I also want a gun that is easy enough to teach my grandchildern to use and take care of the 45/70 is a well proven round from the spencer rifle and gattling gun to modern day wepons this was the first approved ammo by the US Army. The 30/30 has probly take down more deer then any other and with new bullets good to about 200 yds. the 30.06 kicked a lot of butts in several wars well proven in my mind. I was tought one bullet one kill and not to just spray the air and hope to hit something.
The spencer repeater was NEVER chambered for 45/70 only rimfire cartridges such as 56/50 and 52 army rimfire…..you may have it confused with a trapdoor springfield……modern repro Spencer’s can be bought in 45 colt, but the spencer action won’t function. With a 45/70
You and i seem to feel the same about the same idea’s, I to am considered an expert rifleman altho after about 40 years ago and being in a place that had tigers, waterbuffalo,large snakes, and people who wanted their land more then us , I decided to change my job status, and like before I have said that I still work for the fed’s only in a different way. Yes I know that the 22s have take down more deer then any other gun out their, as I said before when I was younger we lived off the land this was 180 arces in West Virginia and coal minning area and yes I also took some of the deer that was also turkeys. I know the 30.06 and the 30/30 and the 45/70 are old rounds that dont compare to mil specs as a useable weapon in a war but don’t rule them out of the game because of more modenr guns even tho this blog is called survival guns (modern) there still a lot of us older folks that at one time or an other found them very handy to put food on the table and are quit fond of them and will still pull them out of the cabnets to defend what is ours. On a different note for those who love a 22 like I do, one of the guns I carry do to its light weight ans slimness I belive either Aquillia or Wolf makes a 60 grain 22 lr, subsonic bullit, that works just fine out of a semiauto, I not home now but when I am i will make sure of the man. and let you know what it is, Peace to all
I dont know where you live as I said I live on the East Coast sothe guns I have talked about are pretty well used in this part of the country when I go to Texas to visit family if I go hunting I pack a 7mm Mag for long shots
like I said to begine I have no short of weapons to pick from I just live in a area where things are hunted with shorter ranges to chose from. Also when SHTF it would also depend on if it is gang related or militery you are looking at. I know about Harlm sa I spent some time there and your right thier are people that would take you out but they are far from being an expert rifleman most will spray the air and hope to hit something. Peace to all
@baou born, No disrespect what I am about to suggest… Please do not use all capital letters, which is considered shouting. Also, please use spell-check or look back at the words that you have typed. If any of them are underlined with a red squiggly line, it means that it is probably misspelled. Believe it or not, internet search engines penalize sites that have lots of bad spelling, which is bad for traffic to the site. Also, believe it or not, there are a large number of ‘bots’ that try to imitate humans and inject comments all over the place, often with poor grammar and spelling, which I battle with every day. I’m not sure if these messages may be one of them…
Sorry for using caps but I was not useing my computter and it was late at night didnt know it was in cap lock sorry once again wasn’t yelling at any one that’s just not me. The remark about useing a compass wasn’t ment for any one person it was ment for people in general. I have ran into a lot of people (hunters) that don’t know how to use a simple thing as a compass and so it seems like the younger generation doesn’t know how to use most things that isn’t electronic. Myself and alot of older people grew up learning different skills that some in this conversation may not know how to use and dont know what they will use if the batt. runs down wish your wife safe being there and return and any others that may be where needed in these times. and peace be with al
Sorry for the misspelled words but was using sons computter and late at night pluse trying not to wake anyone up. Yes I am human unless you talk to some of my grandchildren they think that when asked to do something by me I not human at all (lol)
yes I was born on the Bayou’s in North Carolina 64 yrs ago, I was blessed with alot of grandkids mostly girls, and I think it’s great that they like to fish and hunt alot of them are comming into age to hunt now and I’ve been trying to teach the how to use a compass and afew basic things like how to skin what you shoot or catch when fishing, some of them hane gotten it, but I’m afraid some will starve to death. lol and also how to keep them self’s calm in different walks of life. stay safe and peace with you
I’ve enjoyed these posting. The Bug Out folks make me laugh. Seriously, where in the hell are you all planning to go? I’ve lived in cities from Portland, OR to Albany, NY, there is nowhere to go. You’re going to BO to the country where everyone else will be heading to? The mountains? Good idea in the summer, but in the winter you’d freeze to death. Most BO situations/scenarios I have read about are either gradual or sudden. You can be prepared with a sudden one, but bridges and people attempting to leave will jam all roads and ways out, even that special super secret road only you thought you knew about.
Regardless, for those of you that are interested in a good combo of firearms and are on a budget and are in an urban setting, like most of us. I recommend a Glock handgun and a Keltec Sub2000 (they have them in 9mm and 40SW) (or the handgun or your choice that Keltec makes a sub200 for). They both use the same magazines meaning you don’t need to worry about spending extra money on different style magazines or having to stock up on different kinds of ammo. Despite what you might hear, the sub2000 is good out to 150yds, which is about all the distance you should be shooting at people anyways (and a very long ways in an urban setting). And if a 22lr can take down anything in the lower 48, than no reason to think a 9mm won’t either. And spare me the 9mm doesn’t have the stopping power BS, there are millions of people who have died after getting shot by the 9mm.
Ruger made a police carbine that had interchangeable mags with their semi-autos (if you can find them) and hi-point does as well, and hi-point is probably the lowest price combo you can find, I’ve heard good things about their carbines, but handguns not so much.
Other fine, inexpensive combos are 357mg revolvers and a nice lever action in same caliber. Again, only have to worry about one type of ammo and they are interchangeable with your sidearm.
You can go with the 22lr for many of the reasons above, you can carry lots of ammo on your person.
Whatever combo you do choose, make sure you got about 1000 rounds of ammo to go with it.
As to the handgun cartrige not being powerful enough, I have taken deer with my Marlin lever action in .44mag at distances of about 150 yards? It stopped the deer cold with a 240grain hollow point and I have the combo .44 mag revolver also. It is just too big to carry all the time. I do thing you are right about the lever action vs the AR-15, the lever action would lose most of the time. That being said if you have it, get familiar with it and use it. It is better than sticks and clubs.
Chris, I agree with you on some points. Everyone is planning on “Bugging Out”. In a SHTF situation, I only plan to leave my place, if I have no other option. Of course, I don’t live in the city.
I wonder if people realize that they are most vulnerable on the move and you can’t take much with you.
I personally believe the best survival weapons are the ones that you have with you. Just for fun, I’ll list my top 5. 1) M4, 2) Glock 19, 3) VEPR 12, 4) Remington 700, 5) Ruger 10/22.
I like your Sub2000 idea, especially if it is the Glock magazine version but they are impossible to get. I’ve been on a waiting list for two years. This would never replace my M4 though. I like the pistol caliber carbine idea though.
I also have a few AK47 variants. I think that the AK could be substituted for the M4, if you like that better. I like both but the M4/AR15 long range precision accuracy, makes it my number one choice. For this purpose, I’ll choose a scalpel over a hatchet. I think a 357 revolver is also a good choice, if you don’t like the Glock 19.
* Bonus guns may include the Taurus 992 (I love mine) or a 22LR/410 double rifle.
Best this to use is what you have. That being said and a little obvious, I have 2- .22 cal pistols with bot the .22lr and the .22 mag cylinders, I have a 9mm hi-point and I have 4-30-06 rifles (one is a M-1 Garand), 1-.243 NEF single shot and another in 45-70. Now the .22’s are great for hunting and even some self defense. The 9mm is mostly for close in support. The .243 for small game, or even sniping if needed. The 30-06 bolt actions can be used with small grain bullets or up to 220 grain bullets and since I reload I can take anything in North America, plus the use of the 30-06 round in the Garand makes a great defensive weapon. Lastly, the 45-70 at close range will stop a truck, especially with the Honady 325grain Revolution bullets. That and when it goes off it will scare the hell out of anyone. Waiting to get a good pump action shotgun, but I am storing ammo, especially .22lr rounds. They are cheap and makes great barter material.Just my thoughts.
Browning Buckmark 22 semi-auto with buckmark 22 pistol same mags have lots of them….. AR15 DMPS changed out bolt carrier group to Colt…..Trijicon scope….3.5 is best….Kimber Super Pro Carry 45 pistol…. rem 870 riot 12 ga….nice package
My personal survival/bug out gun is a Savage .22 rifle over .410 guage shotgun. It is sufficent for small game gathering and self defence. Its only 32 inches long ready to shoot, and 19 inches long folded. There is storage in the stock for 16 reloads. It is very accurate up to about 50 yards. The only draw back I see is it is a break action and therefor single shot
For me it’s easy .a 1911 handgun paired with a carbine in the same 45 acp cal for urban areas.and a ruger redhawk or blackhawk in 44 mag paired with a winchester trapper model in same cal for wilderness or rural situations .all weapons could be sharing a couple scopes if I felt the need for one and I would only need to carry one caliber for both weapons .that was already a popular train of thoughts back in the cowboy days and the old west . I could also use a 22 lr conversion kit for the 1911 handgun and make use of cheap and easy to pack ammo for small game getting .the carbine I am thinking of can be made into a 3 gun platform by only carrying extra barrels of different calibers and mags but keeping the same receiver and trigger etc….!
I guess you could call me a gun nut,I have a few.AR-15,Ak-47,10/22,marlin 60,Moisin-Nagant,Steyr-Mannlicher M-95 carbine with 2200 rounds I found at a gun store that I paid 65.00for in German WW2Wooden crates,Smle No.4 ,Swedish Mauser,SKS,Czech VZ-24,Rem.870,RomanianSAR-3,Handguns-Taurus PT-92,Ruger P-90,Ruger GP-100,Charterarms Undercover,Taurus 82,RugerMK 2standard,3-Italian made single action .22s,Keltec P-11,Bryco .380 came across it at garage sale for 40.00 couldn’t pass it up,2 RG 14s cheap but work close in paid 25.00each,don’t have a .40cal,but might get one for ammo interchangeability.Am wanting to add a Charterarms .45acp revolver when they go into production,need a backup caliber for my p-90.I reload so I have ammo,if you akecare careful your reloads are just as good as factory stuff,especially if SHTF and now that there is an ammo shortage,that we don’t know how long will last.I am sure that there are some weapons I forgot.Have a lot of ammo stockpiled,15,000 rounds of.22,7000 rounds of9mm,4000rounds of.45,4000rounds of .38,4000, rounds of.357,3000 rounds of.223,4000rounds of7.62/39,1000 rounds of 12 gauge ,assorted amounts for the rest.Have been at this for a long time,when I go shooting I rotate my ammo by date ,shoot the older stuff first.Just trying to be prepared,because something is bound to happen,but when it will happen is the question.Also take this same attitude with setting back everything else.Just put back what you can when you can,also there are some other things you can do without to be able to put things back.Be prepared and ready.Keep your powder dry.
May I suggest a scuba tank for breathing? Your 5 mile long one sentence comment left me gasping after the third line.
Spaces after the periods and commas? Hard to read. Okay, that’s alot of information to tell the world. But good for you for being prepared. In the future, you might want to keep the specifics to yourself. Ever heard of the NSA?
Whatever your choice of weaponery, have a proper supply of ammo. Have some replacement parts, (firing pin/spring, retainer pins/clips), and of course, the skills to replace them.
I myself look long term vs. short term use. Even in the group I’m in and all the ammo we have stocked back and with our reloading machine we still face the very real fact of running out of supplies and ammo within a very short time. Once gone my AR/15 will be nothing but an expensive club. Your brain is your greatest weapon in your arsenal or should be. If you have combat training and or have been in a fire fight you know this to be true. Man has been killing man with sticks and stones long before the invention of a gun. Your intelligence in survival will far out weigh any gun you have. Bows, Air Rifle, Slingshot, Spears and Knives, slings, booby traps etc.. These weapons need no other mechanical power but your own. They are quiet and can be used indefinitely with the exception of the air rifle but I have a case of pellets for it. The thing is folks, your out in the wood trying to stay AWAY from people. A larger caliber rifle can be heard for miles giving away your position. Granted if you think you will be in firefight chose the weapons you think you will need but don’t rely solely on them. Once you are clear of the immediate danger of getting to your Bug Out camp it is time to hopefully not fire that AR but use your silent weapons and tactical placement of guards and booby traps. Remember…if you kill someone in a group they will leave the body. If you injure one in a group it will take two men to help him. That takes three away from their numbers. Once you start taking numbers from their group and they start seeing injuries it will break down their confidence and moral, thus they will start questioning why they are doing what they are doing. This tactic was used by the Vietnamese during Viet Nam against our troops. These booby traps were a constant reminder that each step could be hazardous. A carefully placed booby trap can do more than just injure. Snares can be used for humans as well as animals. I use every weapon my mind can come up with. Any one can point and shoot. If they pass my perimeter mark then I will resort to using my firearms but not until then. Once your position is given away your camp is then compromised. Yes u will need a good rifle and a pistol, shot gun bazooka whatever but your brain should be your number one weapon against any enemy.
-Money is no object- .22 rifle- Ruger 1022 or Savage or Marlin with scope. Get a .22 pistol to go with it- Ruger, all kinds of manufacturer revolvers, Sig Mosquito (if you can dedicate the time and the 200 or so CCI Mini-Mags to break it in)
Money is an object- find a rifle and a pistol that will RELIABLY shoot .22 lr.
The way I see it is you need some weapons that will feed that dirt cheap .22 ammo.
-money and abundance of ammo are probably an object- a 9mm or .45 pistol. Sig, H&K, Glock- first choice; Springfield Armory, Colt, Ruger, Beretta, Walther- second choice; Taurus, FN, etc, etc…third choice. Look at the individual models, research their reliability, availability of accsories, etc.
-a .40 Glock is probably incredibly reliable, but in a SHTF scenario, how many small town hardware stores carry .40 S&W versus . 45 or 9mm?
-shotgun- 12 gauge…00 for two legged predators (or 3, or 4) , 7 shot for small game. 20 gauge- often recommended by Ayoob and other self defense advocates. Again- 3, 4 shot for home defense, 7 for small game. Cheap shells for lots of targets.
Rifles- .223, .308, 30/30, 30.06 in that order. Sort of. To me, .308 has far better range and stopping power, so the only reason I would keep a .223 rifle is for availability of ammo. 7.62 NATO will take care of all sorts of 2 legged predators and 4 legged game. 30/30 can be found in just about any rural hardware store and rural-based pickup truck. 30.06 is good for all kinds of long range purposes.
To me, it all comes down to odds. What are the odds you will find .22 LR ammo to fit that Savage bolt action rifle versus finding ammo for that. 338 Lapua that you know can outrange the .22?
any body got any info on carrying a 410 shotgun?
Yes I do, don’t!
Weapons aside, who is going to use them? Do you pair up a small female with a hard kicking 30.06, a young boy with a pump shotgun. Are you in shape to use what you have for an extended period of time if the situation calls for it. Have you checked into the type of ammunition for your weapon and what wound ballistics are produced. Can it be defeated by simple obstacles, or will it go through without deviation. How many are trained to use these weapons in your home, you may have them, but can someone load, chamber, clear the safety properly in a stressful situation. Do you have physical impairments that will cause you to fumble with the weapon?
Putting your armory together takes planning and though. At +230 and a weightlifter, I can handle several weapons for a long period of time, however my spouse has had to deal with medical problems that has taken a toll on her. She still carries her .38, but it she tries to use a should weapon then bones can be broken. Match the weapon with who you are and then become the most proficient you can in loading, firing and breaking down the particular piece. Obtain as much ammo as you can for what you use, but still try to practice. I’ve long since quit trying to find the prefect weapon, it comes down to who you are, where you are, and what do you know. Are you willing to pull the trigger knowing that the ultimate purpose is to take the life of the perp to hell with the old lets wound theme, you pull the trigger you shoot for center mass and make it count.
As far as weapon types, I personally go for the .45, .223 for smaller individuals, .308 and 7.62×39 as well as an m4 for home and distant work.
Having all the perfect guns is fine. But unless you are on a place where you have free water both for irrigation and drinking, can grow your own food, and raise some animals both for good and draft. Then you are not prepared. How long do you think the wildlife would last if you started surviving on them ? Be ready to step back in time a hundred years. Then you might be ready…. Just saying.
For me I would want a 30-6 bolt action I like bolt actions a little better but I would go for a 30-6 for survival in the wild because with a .22 your hunting small game that won’t provide a lot of food but with a 30-6 you can hunt deer elk ect. And it doesn’t have crazy kick neither does a .22 but a .22 wouldn’t get the job done for most big game kills an ar-15 assault rifle would be good for multiple kills butt not for long distance
I have viewed all of the comments, and have come to the conclusion that choice of weaponry is a very personal and subjective issue. In my view (as an ex-soldier), I would agree that one needs a selection of four different types of armaments: (1.) an easily wearable concealable handgun; such as a pistol of 9 mm caliber with a capacity of 15 + 1. (not a revolver), Then a (2.) multi-purpose 12 gauge pump-action shotgun with a capacity of 6 + 1, Then a (3.) long range hunting rifle with an accurate scope (about the 303 caliber range would be ideal, and (4.) a semi-automatic assault rifle (such as the AK-47, but firing the NATO 5.56 round as compared to the Soviet 7.62 round.
My reasoning being (in the aforementioned order of weapon: (1) a 9 mm packs the punch needed and has maximum magazine capacity. Also, you can carry pre-loaded magazines. (2) a shotgun can fire multiple loads; such as salt, bird shot, buck shot and slugs. Also, due to the sheer size of the barrel, it is a very intimidating weapon to face, (3) For hunting and sniping, and (4) In the event of all other options being exhausted; you are left with no alternative.
If I were limited to one weapon only, it would be the 12 gauge shotgun; the most versatile all-rounder.
I agree with many others who have submitted their opinions hear.
1. I think that you need a good pump shotgun a 12 gauge preferably with a folding stock. This a good gun for both hunting and self defense.
2. I also think that a 22LR is another great choice for hunting small game as well as for defense.
3. You will need a side arm and I just don’t think that you can beat a 9 MM Automatic. I have read all the arguments on both sides but they are very reliable and the ammo is cheap as well as readily accessible.
4. You also need a good reliable bolt action rifle. I personally like the 30 06 it is so versatile. You can get small grain shells for smaller game and large heavy shells for big game. I have hunted and been around hunters all of my life and most hunters will tell you that a 30 06 is good for everything from ground hog to Cape Buffalo. If you go on a safari and could on carry one rifle most hunters would pick a 30 06.
5. I still think you need an assault rifle but you don’t need an expensive AR-15. You can pick up an SKS or AK 47 for between $350.00 and $450.00. Both of these rifle shoot a 7.62 x 39 shell that is very accurate and great for self defense. The 7.62 x 39 shell is readily available and pretty cheap. I have both an SKS and an AK-47. They are reliable and shoot well.
6. If you have the money I think you need one more gun. A small light weight Carbine like a Hi Point 995ST. It is very small light and good for close quarters. If you are going to survive in any kind of urban environment you will need a good close quarters gun. Look at the police special tactical units they carry small carbines like this.
I am not the worlds foremost authority on weapons but I have two years service in the Army and 6 years service in the navy. I also have been shooting and hunting since I was 8 when I got my first BB gun. I shot my firt rabbit at 10 with my first shotgun so I do know a thing or two.
If I were limited to only one weapon I would cheat. I would want an over and under 22Mag 20 gauge but that is just my opinion.
Nice picks. You can’t go wrong with what you’ve chosen although some will say the rifle should be a .308 or another caliber.
I recently shot a silenced .22 pistol and all I can say is wow. put a mini Aimpoint on one (or on a .22 rifle) and you’d have an extremely convenient, covert tool.
After much reading I can seriously say that I’m old school. I have basic weapons that for me are very accurate and fast on the draw. I was disappointed though that a Bow of some kind wasn’t on the list. I have shot Bow’s before I was allowed to own a firearm. Fifty yards is a clean shot and up to 75yrds isn’t out of the question. I love my Bow not because of it being quiet, but the fact that they are deadly and require nothing but my own power to manipulate. Just saying……
I agree about the bow they are useful for just about any anything fishing hunting
and in some cases self defense and as long as there are trees you have ammo they can take anything from squirrel to bear and now you can get some really nice takedown bows for cheap that are still good
In the event S.H.T.F. I have my Colt AR, AK, M1.30 Carbine,German Mauser Rifle, Russian SVT-40, I even have a few civil war weapons that are easy to load and use in the field if ammo becomes hard to come by. Don’t over look black powder weapons, they helped this country from 1776-1860
It’s called a magazine.
I really think this conversation can go many routes as it depends the environment/area you are in. First let me lead off with, in the case of SHTF I do not plan on engaging in any type of fire fight scenario because even if I win and am only wounded in the SHTF scenario emergency rooms to put you back together will be irrelevant. My main objective due to the rural area I live in is going to be defensive/meat. By defensive I mean targets within 50 yards that mean me harm, everything else I can scoot away from why risk the encounter. I could say that I only need one firearm and that is a shotgun. 00 buck/slug for bear/2 leggers, 6 shot for turkey-squirrel. My second would be the 22 lr/mag due to weight and ammo and versatility. Many Inuit people kill large game (Elk) with 22 lr/hornets/mags. Or option 2 for second a 357 lever since I can pipe 38 in it as well and 357/38 has handled chores from rabbit(not hurting meat w/38 SWC) to black bear/deer (357) for me. My 3rd would be a revolver with minimal of 4 inch barrel matching the lever gun option. And my fourth would be a semi auto handgun either 9mm due to availability of round or 45acp. Of course I live in the Southeast so entertaining the thought of hunting outside of 100 yards where I live is a joke, too much brush/trees and elevation rises and drops on the Smokeys. If I were in Brown bear territory my thoughts would be different, or plains country. I’m also not going to entertain the thought that there would be enough large game left in the lower 48 after the first couple months in that type of scenario to go around. So small game, trapping and fishing would be paramount. Ask people how fast deer were wiped out in the Great Depression of the 30’s, if you have great grand parents still around to tell you.
Any gun you have when you need it will be your survival gun
A survival gun is one that gets you out. Preference .22 cal air rifle (it’s quite and when no ammo is available), .22lr pistol (revolver always works) with rifle, .38/.357 pistol (again revolver), ccw 9mm auto, 1911-45 auto, 12 ga. Pump with two barrels 18-1/” defense and 28″ to hunt and my .308 socom. Dig in and stay home if you can. If you can’t be sure to have a plan and maps, well plans always change on the run. Be safe out there and watch your flank.
So I’ve read about the first 50-75 comments. AR vs AK is a fun argument. People have pointed out ammo availability. Reliability in absurd conditions etc. I vote pick one that weighs as close to 0 as possible while still putting a man down.
The first thing on every ones mind in making a plan for SHTF situation is that the SHTF. As I write this I’m trying to come up with a scenario where our society hasn’t broken down. Society is based in population centers. Everyone will need safety away from the danger. Country folk too. YOU WILL NEED TO MOVE. You’ll be forced off a stockpile. Weight is one of your largest enemy’s. Hoofing it with just a 50 pound pack, no ammo, no gun is exhausting after a couple hours. Add in a 7 pound rifle a 2 pound handgun and 240 rounds of anything other than .22 and I (weighing in at 150lb medium fitness) would start struggling. Your not just carrying a gun and some mags if you plan on pulling through a SHTF scenario.
So to plan for a SHTF situation, you have to consider what you can reasonably control. Your not allowed to assume you can stay put. Your not allowed to assume you have or don’t have running water and electricity. You are in control of what you can transport(on 2 legs), and your ability to find food, water, shelter, and hopefully ammo. So when you make these plans, the equipment you have needs to provide lightweight compact options.
In general when I see “SHTF” my first thought is what do I need for the next 72 hours so I can stabilize and then start to build up again. The answer is 5 parts.
Food, water, clothing, shelter, defense.
Food: 500 calories a day in my bag and ability to get more. . . copper wire for traps, magnesium flint for fire, 2 Folgers coffee cans to cook in, wood knife, carving knive, knife sharpener, flash light.
Water: Heavy stuff, 1 gallon camel back, and again a Folgers can to boil
Clothing: 1 change that will be rugged and cover me entirely but breath for my immediate environment, and as many pairs of socks as I have room for.
Shelter: Sleeping bag, 550 cord or a solid choice of cord that measures in the hundreds of feet and a tarp. . . makes do but i’m hoping for a house, cave, or anything better than a wind and water proof tarp.
Defense: Distance from danger is better than any of your guns. So that is my objective. . . get away from everyone or hide really well. My weapon needs to help me do that. So consider what you truly need on them. Mine will have a 4 ounce red dot. . . no more. My last resort aka handgun. . . will be a polymer. The ammo I carry will probably be around 6 extra mags for the AR and 2 for the sidearm. That’s about 240 rounds.
I would never have a 223 AR15 as a survival gun, to many concentrate about military firefights when it comes to survival. I will never attack an armed survivor, I will never be able to run a big enough group to be able to keep watch, fend off or go into military firefight situations. You need a BIG group to cover enough ground day and night, to be able to take care of wounded etc. Because any attacker will use a strategy to hit you when you are the most vulnerable, or simply dig down at a long range and snipe you down. The 223 is not a long range round at all and any big game caliber gun will outgun you severely. Also semi aut guns have a stupid tendency of wasting ammo, ammo is hard commodity you should not waste. A better strategy is hide, hide stash in different locations, hide yourself and don’t attract attention.
Also I have hunted with 22lr and also with a 10/22 and to state you would have this as your sole gun is not an idea I would ever go for. It’s ok for hunting small game at short distances, which a shotgun will do far far better. Use for self defence sounds risky to me, it does not take much to stop a 22lr round, a police shield, a 1/4″ steel plate etc. An assilant will not be stupid, they observe you before they attack if they see you only have 22lr there strategy would be pretty simply to sit at 400+ yards and shot you down, or use a makeshift shield and brute force you down.
the 870 is a great gun, good idea, great suggestion. It is a good shotgun, reliable as heck, fine for hunting and protection at short range. This is a great gun number 1 for hunting anything really, with slugs you can take down a moose or bear if you want. And for short range protection equipped with buckshots most people fear a streetsweeper.
As a second gun I would choose a bolt action rifle, my favorite is a model 7 in 7-08 with a spare barrel in 308, it’s not hard to swap the barrel really and it would allow military rounds when ammo is getting low. Mine is equipped with a great scope which will work in very low light (tested) and is equipped with a silencer when I need it. I can hunt without telling the world where I am. With this gun I have absolutely no problem hitting torso sized targets at 600 yards. I have hunted moose, deer, boar and small targets such as birds with it. With this gun there is no problem to fend off would be attackers from a distance, and at a distance they cannot hear the gunblast. Should I be surprised where I am I would really depend on my shotgun, or my 357 revolver, which would be the always carry weapon and my gun #3
Anyway this works for me, semi autos yes I own semi autos but they would not be amongst the 4 guns I would have if it was all i could own. My last gun would be something like a bettinsoli combo gun with a second barrel kit, so it woulbe be a double barreled shotgun and a 12 gauge with a 7x57r rifle barrel under it. You can hunt anything in the Northern hemisphere with it, when you take it down it packs small enough to hide in your backpack. Out of sight out of trouble when you dont need it.
just my 2 cents
Reading that the AK is the world most reliable rifle makes me laugh, it is certainly reliable but not as reliable as people are trying to give an impression of. Unless you are very particulate with the cleaning the rifle will spread so bad it is definitely no good for hunting smaller game or hitting without using several rounds. It is also common with stovepipe situation with it. The AR is more accurate but as all know has it’s own reliability issues.
No the worlds definitely and proven rifle ever is the German Mauser m98, my father has a 1936 model which served in the Eastern frontline and then went to an allied service where it was released in 1985, he have used this ever since. Zero jam, extremely low maintenance and it just works. That would be a very good survival gun, with the 2$ stripper clips you can reload extremely fast, we have tested it on 800 yards and hit targets with it, it will kill anything in front of it as well. The rifle have gone through 5 barrels in the allied service from 30-06 to 308, and during it WWII service it did not have the stock barrel when the allied too it so minimum 2 barrels there. With an average of 10 000 rounds++ during armed service it has done at least 70 000 rounds and it is flawless still.
You wanna prepp with a semi auto? better stock up spare parts as well then, tools and what have we. They have found old German mausers dug down in WWII battle areas recently, cleaned them up and used them. THAT is a reliable survival gun which will outlast the end of the world as we know it!
AR/AK, excellent post. The Mauser 98 and it’s clones are just right. Calibers in either 30-06 or .308.
The number 1 issue re: survival gun selection is “availability.” Most guns can add something to a true survival situation in the hands of a competent & safe shooter. However some guns have design features which make them a better selection over other firearms for certain situations. You need to have the gun “available” when the survival situation exists. This is followed closely by #2 (reliability). After you have these two criteria nailed down, the 3rd criteria is your “intended purpose.” A person living in Alaska that flies a bush plane over Grizzly bear/wolf country needs a far different “survival gun” than a person that lives in an apartment in an urban area. The urban person has different “threats” to his/her survival. As such the semi-auto pistol may take a prominent position for the urban dweller. The 4th consideration is “utility.” For example, if one gun can handle 2-3 different considerations it may rise higher on your list for selection. The 12 gauge pump-action shotgun offers great versatility for self-defense, CQB (close range defense work), taking small game/deer sized animals, and protection against bears (with rifled slugs). For those that have the fiscal resources, the best “decision” is own a few firearms. This provides the best versatility to meet emergency/survival needs. If dangerous animals are not a principal concern, the .22 rifle is a great choice (i.e., Ruger 10-22, Marlin Papoose, Winchester 9422 etc.). There are lots a bunch of nice .22 rifles on the market. One option that can take the place of the .22 rifle is the .22/410 or .22/20 ga. combination gun (i.e., Savage 24 C, Savage Model 42, H & R kit guns etc.). Add one semi-automatic tactical rifle (AR-15, Ruger Mini-14, AR-10 (7.62 mm NATO), Springfield M1A1 (.7.62 mm NATO), and one 12 gauge shotgun (Remington 870, Mossberg 500, or other quality semi-auto). Then complete your options list with a semi-auto pistol in 9mm, .40 SW, .45 ACP, or 10 mm auto for self-defense and possible as a back-up. The pistol also affords one to have greater concealability. For those living with the concern of dangerous bears/bears, then modify your selection to include a high-powered rifle and a revolver in .44 Magnum (or more powerful caliber).
My personal choices (based on my needs, experience, training etc.) are:
1. Colt 1911-A1 semi-auto Delta Elite, cal: 10 mm Auto (pistol w/more power and penetration)
2. Glock 27 semi-auto pistol, cal: .40 SW (everyday carry)
2. AR-15, cal. 5.56 MM NATO 1:9 twist with collap. stock (tactical rifle)
3. Remington 870 12 ga. pump-action shotgun, w/ 28″ VR barrel & 18″ tactical bbl.
4. Winchester bolt-action, model 70, cal: .30-06 Springfield with 3-9 x 40 mm Zeiss scope (larger game hunting)
4. Ruger 10-22, cal: 22 LR (small game hunting)
#1 .22 cal rifle and pistol – Ample ammo available
#2 .45 cal or .40 cal pistol (.38 Super is good but ammo may be hard to find)
#3 .357 cal revolver – ample ammo available and will shoot .38 S&W
#4 12 Ga. shotgun ample ammo (have a variety for defense and hunting and one high caliber rifle (.223 ammo)(.308)(.30 cal)(30-06) with good scope
#5 .380 or 9mm pistol (lots of 9mm available)(CCW)
#6 rifle-shotgun pistol cleaning kit and supplies.ear plugs
1-2-3-5 at least 500 rounds each. 4 at least 250 shells
Knives, small shovel, ax, cross bow (silent and good for defense and hunting).
First aid kit
poncho and tarp
socks and warm clothing-all camo
flashlight and survival radio/CB/batteries
binoculars and water purifier devise
All in a bug out or duffel bag with light tent, thermal blanket, cooking kit, soap,canteen,sun screen, all ID documents and important #’s, some cash, watch, extra pair glasses, towel, toilet paper, 50 ft para-cord, lock and key. Remember, you may have to carry it so too heavy is a loser.
Have an extra bag with two weeks survival food and water
Know the spot where you are going to hold out and perhaps bury some of the gear in a mono-vault. If you have two vaults, load up on personal sanitary items, clean clothes, ammo, bottled water,and any items for barter.
If you can obtain a good running 4 wheel vehicle, have it loaded and ready – not for daily driving. A quad may also suffice but it must be one where you can carry gear.
Build a network of like minded survivalists.
And remember take as much medicine as you can carry if you have health situations.
Have a bible, you will need it as a guide.
Keep quiet that you have this gear and are prepared.
Hey, survival, good post! I like your stuff.
I’ll throw in my M1 Garand and 1911-A1. They’re heavy, but hell, my horse is gonna’ carry ’em and one of my pack horse’s is loaded with ammo only, about 150 pounds worth. If the pack horse goes down I’ll stash the stuff and continue with my hand cart.
Horse meat is good eating.
When I spied the title, and BEFORE I even looked at the comments, I knew it would be more than I had ever seen here.
I was proven right. Mentality of we Americans. Good for us—we know more about guns than nutrition!! LOL!!!
Lever action .22 with scope on peep thru scope rings. Scoped .30-06 with iron sights as back up. (I am thinking long & hard about replacing with a Mossberg MVP Patrol rifle in 7.62 NATO) High quality pump action shotgun with multiple loads. Mine happens to be 20 ga. I was in the right place at the right time & got a SMOKIN’ deal on it, and the wife can shoot it too. Looking for a handgun. I would like either a 1911 in .45 ACP or a DA .357 revolver.
And keep buying ammo whenever you can. Its better to have it & not need it than need it & not have it.
Its how well can you use the weapon that counts. One shot one kill. Shooting at people is a lot different than shooting at game.
Right on. I think a lot of people will die because they aren’t willing to kill preemptively. Unfortunately, lowlifes are willing to shoot first. Go with your instinct. If you think there’s gonna be a fight, shoot first, shoot center mass, and shoot till they drop. Then do the same to the next target. If its a little pre-SHTF then you’re kind of obligated to call TPTB. If its post-SHTF, then a coup de grace to the head. Its callous, but merciful. There’s probably not going to be any trauma centers around and a large caliber gut wound doesn’t seem like a humane way to go. If you’re sniping gang bangers, then go for a kill shot. Its merciful.
If you’re getting meat, use a .22 and a head shot. Its a lot quieter than a large caliber. Noise attracts people…. I’m thinking survival will depend on one of two scenarios, 1 A large group able to protect themselves or 2 being very quiet & unobtrusive. Become the gray man.
Mine all went to the bottom of the ocean in an unfortunate boating accident, we were going hunting and decided to take the boat and a big wave almost turned us over so we threw everything overboard so we wouldnt swamp,,,,,
When was that, last year? Year before??? Cant remember, my hard drive crashed so lost all my journal entries and emails,,,,,
Relating to the discussion of ammunition availability, it will not matter if the ammunition is domestic or foreign make if TSHTF.
Due to the fact that President Ebola and his band of Libtards have put the last lead smelter in the USA out of business. No lead – no bullets.
Sell your stocks and bonds and buy guns ammo and food. Seriously. My choices are .22 pistol and rifle for obvious reasons. Definitely a pump shotgun. I went with 12 Gauge because more is better. It is also the most available shotgun round. Get a Mossberg 500 or Remington 870 for parts availability. A .380 for conceal. A .45 Sig for me. I intend to get a Glock in .40 for wife and .45 for me. I only have the Sig because my department requires it. The Ar is a great medium range rifle. I have one that is light and could be carried all day for my wife. Mine is a beast set up for shooting out to 500 yards or more. My house is 300 yards from the road with nothing else around. It should do the trick just fine. To go further distances, I am building a bolt action .308. If you are considering an AR, get it in 5.56 and not .223. If for longer ranges, get .308 and not NATO 7.62. 5.56 shoots both and .308 shoots both safely.
I Forgot to say. If money is a major problem. I would go with .22 rifle, .22 pistol, and 12 Gauge in that order. Then maybe add an AR or at least a 5.56 rifle of some sort. For handguns, I really considered 9mm, but it was way easier to find .40 and .45 during the ammo shortage. 9mm isn’t as cheap as it used to be either. Still a great round. Just my thoughts. I have a Keltec sub2000 chambered in .40, so I am already committed. .. lol.
I can’t believe how many people on here are so uneducated about the capabilities and pros of the .22. I couldn’t read all of these comments but I’ve read most of them. I see that a few educated people pointed out the basics, but here are a few more:
1. Velocity – most of the older folks that shot .22 at scout camo back in the 30’s were nowhere near as powerful as today’s .22 ammo. I believe I read that “back in the day” .22 ammo had velocities of approximately 800-900FPS tops. Today, the velocity has doubled. The CCI stinger is rated for 1,750 FPS, from a rifle of course. That is extremely quick!
2. Ballistics – The .22 Stinger’s have nearly identical ballistics to your typical 9mm FMJ. Don’t believe me? Please search YouTube for “22 LR vs. 9mm Ballistics”. This video shows the damage to ballistic gel from a .22 HV HP and a 9mm. Both rounds penetrate 9″ with a 1″ wide wound.
2. Variety/Price – Again, innovation has paved the way for a variety of different rounds. You can buy tracers, shotshell, hollow point, high velocity, sub sonic, super quiet, etc. One of the newer varieties are the .22lr with a 60 grain bullet. That’s super heavy for this round. If the world doesn’t go to shit, just think about what the future holds for this caliber. .22lr is back down to $2.50 per box for American Eagle ammo. BTW, a good ammo site is http://www.ammoseek.com
3. Noise – This is one of the most under-discussed topics. When you’re hunting in a survival scenario you want to keep noise to a minimum so as to not give away your location. Just the same, if you get into a fire fight and you don’t have any ear protection, especially with a 30-06, it’s going to be excruciatingly painful with each pill you send towards your enemy. So much so that it’ll ruin what little focus you have left, and likely get you killed. The .22lr doesn’t require ear protection. If I’m on a supply run, that’s what I’ll take with me so that I don’t have to go deaf. Not to mention, you’ll be able to talk to other people in your group without screaming at each other and letting your enemy know exactly what you’re saying/planning.
4. Damage, Accuracy & Capability – Depending on which side of this topic one falls on lets me know whether or not I’m talking to an inexperienced gun enthusiast. The .22. Contrary to popular belief you can kill medium sized game with a .22lr. I’ve watch videos of people shooting freshly chopped deer heads and one shot to the head broke the skull into 4 large chunks and turned the brain into soup. Now, I understand that we’re all taught to place the bullet center mass, but in a SHTF scenario, more likely than not your enemy will be wearing AR500 steel plates, so aiming center mass will do little more than knock the wind out of them. Due to the accuracy coupled with the low recoil, one could easily make head shots with a .22. In fact, for the reason alone, I practice with 2″ steel gongs from 50 yards with iron sights. I can also hit the target while its moving. This is something that is much more difficult to do, even with an AR.
5. Weight of Firearm/Weight of Ammo – As one other person mentioned, the weight of ammo is next to nothing. I’ve practiced hiking with 2,500 rounds in my BOB and it was not difficult. Now, you try that with 2500 rounds of .223, or any other caliber for that matter, and I wish you the best of luck. Keep in mind that slower targets are much easier to hit. Not only is the ammo light but so are .22’s as a whole. My 22 AR-variant weighs-in at around 6lbs loaded. Everyone’s threshold is different in this regard, but rifle weight should be a core concern in a survival situation. For me, anything above 7lbs, and I start getting shooters fatigue after about 150 rounds. It’s at that point I start shaking to the point of affecting accuracy. Therefore, with my .22 rifle, I can shoot for longer periods of time without something to stabilize my gun.
Magazine Capacity – I own a few 50 round drum mags for my 22, in addition to 30 round mags. These are a great option for more popular 22 models. Again, keep in mind the weight factor. If you wanted to use a drum mag on any other gun, it begins to become impractical due to the added weight. With the 22’s the drum mags are polymer instead of steel and thus are lighter. With the 10/22 and AR-variant 22’s you get the added bonus of high capacity mags. Again, you won’t get this with your 30-06, which likely only carries 5 rounds or less. In the time it takes a person to operate the bolt or load up another 3-5 round mag, you’re dead.
6. Distance – the 22 is capable of a kill at 300 yards. Don’t believe me? Watch some videos on youtube of people doing this time and time again. There is one video that I liked a lot. A guy wraps a pot roast with 6 layers of denim and shoots it at 300 yards. By the time the bullet hits the pot roast it still has enough energy to penetrate all 6 layers of denim and cause a wound cavity at around 1″ wide by 6″ deep.
If anyone on here doesn’t own a .22 rifle yet, BUY ONE NOW! I know that everyone recommends the RUGER 10/22, that’s a great rifle, but I recommend either the Sig Sauer 522 or the M&P 15-22. I should mention that while I’m a huge .22 advocate, I do own pretty much every single gun mentioned in the comments of this article. I’m not just some guy that only shoots .22. But the question was, what gun would you choose to survive with? And so, my Sig 522 would be my first choice. It’s got the same easy take down as an AR without the weight. The reason I wouldn’t choose the 10/22 is because I’ve worked on those before for several friends and if you ever need to break down the entire action to replace a part, it’s a bitch to reassemble in a shop, let alone in the field. Whereas with my 522, I can easily break it down completely and put it back together without the frustration. (I keep a mallet and punch set in my BOB).
I had to send back a Taurus Model 80 , .38 special revolver as it had “gone out of time” , I called a week later and inquired about the repair status of my firearm , I was told that it could not be repaired as it was so old , but I could be sold an updated version for $200.00 , I told them they could keep it and the paperweight too , when I bought this firearm Taurus had a Lifetime warranty , now they have changed this to. lifetime repair policy , well I thought that if they could not fix a firearm they would replace it , well there goes that Lifetime warranty , I will not buy another Taurus firearm , and since I am getting my FFL soon I will not order or recommend any of the Taurus. Firearms or any of they’re other holdings firearms , that would be Rossi , Diamondback , or Heritage firearms , I would suggest that if you want a firearm with a warranty that will be respected buy another brand . As for firearms for SHTF , Ruger 10/22 , Ruger GP-100 , Remingtom 870 shotgun , and an AR -15 , that is if I was limited to only four firearms , but there are others . Be prepared and ready . Keep your powder dry .
A bolt action rifle, with iron sights, is the ultimate survival weapon. They are accurate, affordable, and reliable. If a war breaks out you can get any weapon of war you want for the cost of a single bullet.
My personal preference is based upon my long-time past professional law enforcement career in a densely populated state. It was my native state and I loved it, until the political pimps started to dictate who could have certain rights, based upon their interpretation of the Constitution.
Now, in the beginning of the sunset of my life, we have re-located to a much better more friendly state, and do not concern ourselves with the “instant felon” status which my native state would place on me, for mere possession of pre-registered LEGAL at-time-of-purchase firearms. I love the .22LR round and we have handguns and rifles in that caliber. I’ve consolidated calibers so that we have multiple “platforms” for same calibers, that can perform different functions as needed. I love my bolt action center fire rifles, they are common calibers, and are excellent to use for long range. I also added a Moisin-Nagant Carbine, which I customized to hunt with and have a sufficient supply of ammunition for it that my grandchildren can use if necessary. I do not have a lever action center-fire rifle, foolishly I sold it, thinking “I’ll never ever need that here!” in southern California. What a dope. That’s one of the FEW rifles that is effective for defense, survival and hunting and it’s still(as of right now) legal to own and to possess in California. I will rectify that stupid decision to sell it forthwith. We are all responsible for our OWN “salvation”, so get what works for YOU, and don’t worry. Hope this helps someone out there.
Whatever you have ammo for and know how to handle.When SHTF we are all going to be on the same end of things so buy what you can load and shoot IMO.
Local stores have been getting some 22lr in. It actually sat on the counter for 15 minutes. The federal went first then off brands. I wouldn’t advise anyone to get a 22lr until they can get ammo in bulk or have it. Otherwise its just good to be used as a club.
I have SO many choices in my locker.I think maybe my 1894 Winchester chambered in .357 Magnum, and, for back up, my S&W Mod 28 6″ .357 Magnum. There are lots of good choices out there. I’m a traditionalist and they just look good with my horse and hat.
Those are great choices , traditional matching rifle and handgun combination , has worked well for long over a century , the West was won by this match-up , I bet that lever gun does look good in the scabbard on your horse , along with that Highway Patrol S&W on the belt . The western combination I have is a Rossi 92 in .357 backed up by a Ruger GP-100 , reload my own ammo , and they both shoot great . Where I live shots past 200 yards are almost non-existent , so this combo works for me . Hope you have many years enjoying the outdoors . Be prepared and ready . Keep your powder dry.
This is a subject that everyone has a favorite. I understand that everyone wants to be able to defend themselves and their weapons of choice may be different but they all have a common flaw and that is ammunition. Granted if you are a part of a group then I hope at least one reloads. But even then you will run out of reloading supplies and that weapon of choice is now just a expensive club. I don’t understand why on anybody’s list no one has a Bow. I can reuse my arrows and I make my own. My bow is more lethal than a firearm because I can kill a good size deer at 75yrds and be silent and again I can reuse my arrows. A bow is also pretty light weight and some breakdown for a small pack. I have been using a bow long before I was allowed to have a weapon. Another thing that bothers me about this subject is the fact that most people do not own a firearm and the ones that do have more than one. Strange how people trust in the fact that someone will come and rescue them. All I am saying is that everyone that has a survival instinct should own at least one bow.
Upon reading the OP’s list of 4 firearms for STHF, I generally agree, but,
Are we talking about a battery for living in a survival situation, or living in a fighting for survival situation?
The Glock 19 is a fine choice for either case, but I would add an Advantage Arms 22 LR conversion kit. The kit is an easy change out, the manual of arms is the same, it has adjustable sights, the weight is less, due to lighter ammo. It will be great for training, and small game/ pest control.
Extra magazines , of course.
The Ruger 10-22, (scope and extra mags), and the Remington 870 ( with Rem chokes, and a magazine extension, are sound investments.
The rifle would be a personnel choice based on the need for protection or for hunting/protection.
I would choose a Mauser (FN) action bolt action in 30-06, with fixed sights and a quality scope in tip off mounts.
Replacement parts (firing pin, spring, etc) for all weapons and, of course the skills and tools to install them.
If fighting for life was a concern, I would replace the rifle with a Springfield Amory M1A.
Oh yeah I would also have my reloading set up and a supply of components.
I won’t get into the AR/AK or 9mil/.45 debate (personally prefer the AR and .45 but that’s beside the point. Everyone has their personal choices for combat rifles and backup pistols for self defense/absolute firefight so keep those guns and learn to shoot them and stock up on ammo. However you will need guns beside these, guns for hunting arming others/women/children. Find these guns and learn to shoot them/teach your defendants to shoot them, and of course stockpile ammo. Now eventually your ammo stockpile will run out, this is unavoidable. People debate whether 5.56 or 7.62 is better and easier to find, whatever might be true you are still searching for a single type of round. You will have much better luck if you can search for multiple rounds. Now several different guns is the best way to go, however that may not be possible now or after SHTF for many reasons (money now or ability to transport after SHTF) so for your non combat guns look for something that fires multiple calipers and guns that can share ammo. I prefer combinations of revolvers and lever action rifles. A good .357/.38 or .44mag/.44 special combination will work well with lever actions/revolvers. I prefer .44 mag for myself but availability is lesser and it may be high recoil for some. The .357 is an excellent choice as it can easily be used to take down large game up to deer or pigs or be fired with low power .38 target rounds to kill squirrels or rabbits and everything in between. Along the same line your .22 should be a lever action and revolver combos. The .22mag is an excellent choice and can be used on game up to deer at short ranges or a variety of other game, however ammo availability can be quite scarce so a revolver/ lever action (or other tubular mag rifle) chambered in .22mag can fire everything, .22mag, Long rifle,longs, or shorts this capability is not found in any stack style magazine firearm. The same argument can be made for single shots but they lack the fire rate if a repeater and can be cumbersome to operate quickly. A revolver or lever action will also feed 99.99% of all ammo chambered for it regardless of quality or brand. So remember pick you battle rifles and snipers and backup sidearms but don’t forget your everyday use guns and make sure they are as useful as can be. It is easier to find 10 rounds of mixed .357/.38 than it is to find 10 rounds of all one caliber.
Also don’t forget air rifles. Now before you scoff at this statement don’t forget they are not battle rifles or large game rifles. They are not meant to replace your AR/AK, hunting rifle, side arm, sniper rifle, or defensive shot gun.These guns are for small game and instructional purposes. The ” ammo” is ridiculously cheap and available, these guns are incredibly easy to work on and maintain. A kid as young as 7 or 8 can be trusted with one by their self and bring back meat quite reliably. Have someone in your group who has never shot before? Start them with an air rifle, almost no recoil, incredibly cheap “ammo” and easy to maintain. These guns also can be purchased or fitted with suppressors/ sound dampeners, making them an excellent choice for small game in urban areas where there is a high probability for unwanted attraction. High end very accurate air rifles can be had extremely cheaply compared to other firearms. Every convenience store, walmart, and hardware store carries pellets and 1,000s of pellets can be carried in a pants pocket. Long story short, would I leave out one of the above mentioned weapons to make room for an air rifle? Certainly not. If I had extra space would I fill it with air rifles? Definitely. If they are used for what they are designed for they are an excellent addition to any arsenal. In addition take down models and air pistols can take up very minimal space.
bs, you ASSUME that you just automatically will be one of the 1% that manages to survive the rampant diseases, fighting etc of the first year of shtf. Don’t kid yourself, the game will all be gone in a month or two. There will be very little to shoot at, cause nearly all the people will be dead. If you have enough sense to have a silenced, autoloading 223 and .22lr conversion unit, you can easily have a year’s worth of ammo stockpiled and then you’ll be able to just roam around and pick up guns and ammo from the dead and the empty buildings.
i find suggestions for the high capacity mediun range “assault style” rifles irrational.
this gun topic was couched in terms of family survival-not miliary opearations. it’s stupid to assume you’ll have army trucks bringing you the crates of ammo that an AR or kalash will digest.
for those living in canada forget about handguns and the restricted military long guns-too much paperwork and shooting range restrictions,besides in the rural areas a long range full power bolt gun is way further ahead in keeping badguys far away and dropping large game animals than any AR.
therefore a 308 nato or 30-06 improved scoped bolt gun is most efficient.
definitely a 12 gauge pump gun is way better for home defense than any AR.
forget centerfire handguns-too difficult to hit anything with and legal issues while a ruger 10 22 can be temporarily “refitted” with a shorter barrel,folding stock,laser, scope and large magazines making that far more accurate, quieter and cheaper to practice with.
you can stockpile thousands of rounds of .22 and 12 gauge ammo without raising any eyebrows,even in canada. while a lee handloading kit with a few hundred brass cases can keep a centerfire bolt gun going for years.
remember the topic was survival,with a national emergency situation implied-before the situation spirals completely out of control the government may begin targeting handgun and military rifle owners. by the time they get to sporting long guns, it may likely be martial law,with ALL civilians besieged.
looters don’t CARE what you THOUGHT about how shtf was gonna go! Me, I dont care about stupid laws that reduce my abiity to defend myself, either. If I”m going to be deficient in some category, it’s going to be the long range sniper bs, and the taking of large game at long range bs. There’s no reason to do either. You can get within 100m of game and brain it with the silenced 223, a LOT easier than you can fight with nothing but a noisy bolt action. The silencer, luminous sights. 22 conversion unit, rapid followup shots of the si AR (and NVD goggles) are a huge help to foraging, much more so than the additional range and power of the bolt action.
Colt M16A2/AR-15A2 Rifle will be my Jungle Survival Weapon, the 20″ heavy barrel with 1:7 twist rate will maximize any type of load I’m going to use.
The 5.56mm is neither too heavy nor too light to hunt small, medium and large games. in other words its a shoot-all.
The true survival weapon is not only for hunting animals to eat but also a defense against wild animals like bears, lions, large snakes and (god forbid) hostile people you might encounter.
Scope-sighted rifles are very common but the integral iron sights of M16A2 will do just fine and its not prone to fogging and breaking.
so it has to be the most versatile one. I want a pocket 9mm, cause it’s out of the debris, out of sight, accessible, out of the way of the pack and the rifle.
HOw do you get game or looters to wait while you go get the “proper” gun, hmm? you’ll have a shotgun and need to reach 100 yds, or have a bolt action and need rapidfire, have a .22 and need power/range.penetration. thats just Murphy’s law. Whatever it is, it has to have a .22lr option, it’s gotta be rapidfire, 223 would be best. it’s gotta have a silencer, a scope, and luminous iron sights, useable thru the “see thru” scope mount. An 11″ barreled AR15 is best, with 60 gr Aquila subsonic 22 ammo, 60 gr Nosler Partition softpoint 223 ammo, corbon 100 gr 9mm jhp’s in the pocket 9. A ciener .22lr conversion unit is just $200 (30 rd box mag). it swaps calibers in 20 seconds, groups 2″ or better at 50 yds, and sounds like a BB gun thru the 223 silencer. plenty of youtube videos about it
if your life aint worth the $1500 that such a rifle costs you, with silencer, .2 unit etc, then you aint serious. sell off the toy guns and you’ll have enough money to get the real deal. The shorty AR can do it all, and you can buy it a pc at a time, thru the mail, if you get an Ares Armor 80% finished AR lower receiver and do the simple machining yourself. all other parts can be mail ordered.
shotguns, lever actions, bolt actions, those are toys, as are single shots. dump them, while there’s still suckers who will buy them from you, and get your fighting rifle while you can still do so.
I gotta weigh in here being a combat veteran with real life use of the M4.. First they are NOT like the M16-a1’s used in Vietnam AR’s m4’s in general have come a long way & are extremely versatile.. You can get one to be just as or more reliable than your nicest AK.. During my last deployment I had a Colt m-4 with an Acog scope, H&K magizines, surefire light, and pq laser attached and I personally wouldn’t have wanted anything else period, and yes I am familiar with every single type or style of firearm, from bolt action, lever, fully auto, revolvers, semi auto’s you name it.. The beretta m-9 is not the best example of military weaponry but honestly anybody engaged in real combat ( not sitting on the fob) knows your using your riffle, those are a almost never used sidearm for certain folks mainly the officers, again should be irrelevant.. And the guy who mentioned while you were in Iraq wishing you had your old hunting rifle and a Remington 870″ well guess what you probably weren’t in a unit or job that needed one.. My unit as most units that frequently do actually fight on the frontline DO have shotguns, long riffles, and every other manor of shit to complete the mission.. My set up alone was the dollar equivilate to who knows how many thousands.. You mentioned 3grand for a nice AR that’s funny my issued riffle with everything attached was more in the 10 grand ballpark.. So please don’t spread misinformation people.. If your comfy with your lever action more power to you, they’re great riffles, ext ext.. But don’t go saying what’s a piece of sh*t out there when you obviously don’t know enough about it, to some folks with an Ar- military experience and little or no hunting experience can be extremely effective in any situation, there are a few models out there I wouldn’t risk my life with, but that’s the same with any style of firearm 1911’s come to mind they can be unreliable pieces of crap or completely reliable tack drivers, same thing with your M16/M-4, A-r variants.. Thanks and have a blessed day.
In my opinion you can’t beat the sks when it comes to reliability and accuracy.the 7.62 has much more stopping power and penetration then the 5.56×45 I have fired 8000 rnds at LEAST and haven’t had a single malfunction from my type 56 Chinese sks and I’ve put that gun through hell
Has anyone considered using a good pellet rifle for small game hunting? OK, get your laughs out of the way now. Think about it. For the ammo. No propellant to go bad. Impervious to moisture. You can carry literally thousands of pellets in the same space as a couple of dozen .30 rifle rounds. They’re plenty accurate. The guns are super simple. AND, if it really is a SHTF scenario, they’re quiet. You don’t want to be attracting the horde while you’re just trying to get lunch. Unless your in a settled spot, you’ll be on the move and hunting small game, single meals. A pump action pellet rifle would be ideal. They also don’t weigh that much. Forget Hollywood, those fancy punked out assault rifles get heavy fast.
Good advice! I definitely have a good pellet rifle among my other rifles. Your points are well taken. A pellet rifle can be amazingly effective.
This is what I currently have (very happy with it)
Umarex Model 34, .177 Caliber
My surprise with this one was it’s weight – it’s not a light weight rifle.
why risk having no stopping power and no rapidfire? How will you KNOW that yu won’t have to stop a starving dog pack or people? Why not, instead, have a silenced AR15 in 223, with a Ciener Firearms .22lr conversion unit, with luminous sight inserts? Yes, it costs $1500 or so, so what? It will handle anything that needs to be done with a longarm, and do so for 70+ years. $20 per year makes or breaks you?
On that note, anyone have some recipes for rabbit or squirrel? How about an article on how to quickly/effectively skin small game? Maybe curing the hides after. Unlike a deer skin, you can hang squirrel/rabbit hides off of your pack to dry as you walk.Isn’t the axiom “Those that move live, those that don’t die.”?
If your wanting to save the hides, skin them the same as you would a deer. If you’re skinning for food only, rabbits have very loose, thin skin, if your grip is fairly strong, just grab about anywhere with both hands grasping a handful of skin and pull in opposite directions. It comes off easily. Cut the feet and head off, slit the abdomen from vent to neck and pull out internals. Squirrels have much tougher skin, but if you use this linked method, it’s quick and easy.
Recipes? Wild bunnies and squirrels have tendency to be tough and chewy, especially the older ones. My favorite method is the same for both, chicken fry after cutting them up into legs and back (milk bath, dipped in seasoned flour). After frying, then pressure cook on a raised rack above about an inch of water for about thirty minutes. The meat will fall off the bones, be moist and tender, and the spices will have permeated the meat. Another favorite is to cut them up, pressure cook, then add them to your pot of pinto beans for the full duration of cooking. The meat will absorb the spices and flavor of the beans and turn the pot of beans into a one pot meal (with biscuits or cornbread of course). Remember, the pressure cooker is the secret.
Thanks for the at-home recipes. I’m looking for “on-the-road” recipes. You know, like after the mobs have burned my house to the ground and I’m just trying to stay alive. I’m a city dweller and I’m starting real late in the preparedness classes. I think we have a total of 8 squirrels in my city. They’re not a big menu item. As such, most here don’t even know they’re edible. The last time anyone saw a rabbit hide it was lining a snow boot. So I’m looking for beginner info from the more seasoned crowd. Thanks for the link on skinning the squirrel. And tough and chewy beats my stomach screaming FEED ME!
I’ve “cooked” and eaten just about any edible creature you can name over a campfire. You failed to mention if you plan on having any utensils on your adventure. If not, a sharpened, slender green (as in off a live tree) limb is about as primitive, yet effective method to spear the cut up portion of meat to roast over the fire there is. I have found it is much easier to cook small, individual potions at a time rather than the entire animal. You can cook it as well done as you wish, but keep in mind, the longer you cook it, the dryer and tougher it will get. Also, keep in mind that any bacteria on freshly harvested wild game is on the surface of the meat, not in the meat itself. It only takes a brief searing of all the outer surfaces to render it germ free. Not gourmet, but effective for quietening a screaming stomach.
If I may make a suggestion, if you are a neophyte with these things, practice. Attempt to harvest a squirrel in your back yard. If successful, dress it, build a small fire and cook it. Figure things out by actually doing as many of those things you’ve read about by doing them before you have no breathing room for mistakes. What works for me may not work for anyone else. Build a kit bag (some folks call them bug out or get out of dodge bags,etc.). I call mine a kit bag because that’s what the old guys called theirs when I was young (a long time before the fairly recent prepper movement). Mine is much smaller and less complex than those I’ve seen described around the web, it’s based on what I KNOW I will need, not what I might need. Continue to ask questions, but be smart, some of the advice you will hear is obviously unworkable. The best way to find out is to test it.
Good advice. Thank you. That’s what I’m trying to do. I’d prefer to ask questions before I start shredding squirrels. As for hunting a squirrel and cooking it here,not a good idea. My neighbors are about 10′ away and adamantly anti-gun. Any gun. And we really probably only have about 8 squirrels here. Tougher to find than coyotes. I’ll head north to a friends place and see if I can successfully feed myself. Thanks again.
It’s just stupid to not have as many options as possible. WHY would YOU have to be foraging for food, and others are not, hmm? if they ARE, SOME of them will shoot you on site, so not having the most versatile arm possible is just moronic. That arm is a shorty AR15, with a silencer, .22lr conversion unit, scope, see thru mount, trigger job and luminous sight inserts.
With 60 gr Nosler Partition softpoints, the short 223 is as effective on deer and hogs and men as the 30-30 ever was. With 69gr hpbt Sierra bullets, it will snipe effectively to 1/4 mile. With an 11.5″ barrel, it will conceal in your pack when it’s taken down (5 second) and re-assemble to fire in 10 seconds. That’s already an advantage, and might well be VITAL one day!.
The full power 223’s sound like a normal .22lr rifle, when fired thru a 7.5″ long silencer. The subsonic 60 gr Aquila 22 ammo sounds like a BB gun when fired thru the .22 unit and 223 silencer. Why make noise? it scares off game and calls to your killers. Why not have the abilty to aim at night, snipe at goodly distances, use the GI rd, pierce soft body armor, use .22lr ammo?
Not having rapidfire is retarded. If my AR jammed every 5 shots, it would still be as fast for 6 hits as your bolt action. The AR is very easy to strip, clean and maintain in the field. Once you run out of ammo (ie, can’t shoot .22lr or 223) your gun is worthless. it’s dark half of the time, if you don’t have luminous sights, your gun is nearly worthless, half of the time.
you can easily set up a very Fine, silenced AR15, scope, .22lr conversion unit for 3k. the laser target designator is not necessary if you have luminous sight inserts and the NVD goggles are not part of the gun.. If you make the silencer yourself, you can set up the AR for under 2k. it’s not that hard, I’ve made many in a shop that I set up in a 10×10 public storage rental.
why limit your rifle by chambering it for a lame-arsed pistol caliber, hmm? or the .22 mag rimfire? GEt a 223 auto and be able to reach 4x as far, use the GI rd, have a .22lr conversion unit, a silencer, luminous sights, with 223 ammo being no heavier than 9mm. and .22lr being 10x as lw and compact as 12 ga, or 4x as light and compact as 357. You do want a centerfire pistol, but it should be a 1 lb pocket 9, cause all they are good for is firing from inside of your sleeping gear, as you crawl a tunnel or climb a tree. CArry it in a front pants pocket holster, out of the way of rifle and pack, out of sight, accessible, and out of the elements.
.22r ammo is normally 135 rds to the lb, but the preferred 60 gr Subsonic Aquila rds are 100 to the lb. Still, you can easily carry 500 rds of it and it will last you for a decade, if you know what to do with it.
biggest single improvement of practical accuracy with an AR is a drop in trigger job. $200 very well spent. That is IF you always use ear protection, even in combat. If you dont use Norton “earvalve” plugs while hunting, then the silencer is the most efficient way of improving practical accuracy
if you’ll put one such earplug at either end of a springy metal band, and wear it around your neck, you’ll always have the plugs within 2 seconds of being in your ears. For ccw, you can put them in a squeeze open case, in your front pants pocket. Lanyard the case to your belt, right above your pocket. grab the lanyard, the case is in your hand in one second. in another second, the plugs are in your hand. In 2 more seconds, they can be in your ears, doubling your effective pistol range. and you don’t have to take your gun out of action to do this, either. 4-5 second is as fast as anyone can reliably speedload a revolver, from ccw, and they DO have to take their gun out of action to speedload it.
I mean, really, guys, where do you get the crystal ball that tells you when you won’t need your fighting rifle? when it’s ok to be handicapped by having nothing but a bolt action or shotgun? how do you carry more than one longarm, a pack of survival gear, water, etc andn enough ammo to make both longarms worth carrying? it’s not going to happen. How will your OTHER longarms be secured, when you are out hunting with one or the other?
the best carrygun/mode is a Sig P938, in a kydex front pants pocket holster. Both for normal times ccw and for shtf, too. Such a rig stays out of the way of the pack and the rifle, is out of sight, out of the elements. Sig makes a .22 unit for their little pocket 9 and offer a threaded barrel for same, for silenced use. Corbon’s 100 gr plus p PowRball ammo is the best standard type load on the market, especially for pocket 9’s. However, I prefer my 45 gr, solid copper hollowpoint, split from the nose almost to the base, big hollowbase cavity, with the gun rechambered to 356 TSW. Then I can safely get 2200 fps and 500 ft lbs of power, with no more recoil than a 9×18 makarov. this load pierces kevlar vests, too. With a trigger job, luminous sights and speed safety on the little Sig, I”m considerably more capable than is the average cop with his .40 glock. :-)
lots of useful ideas here. geography, finances and laws are determinants. for me at a minimum i choose a used ruger single six 22lr/wmr, 5.5″ barrel (or new heritage roughrider): reliable, slow reload makes better practice, easy and accurate shooter, 22wmr with defense load ammo is credible. taurus model 85 38spec snubbie in stainless steel: credible, comfortable ccw. used h&r single 20ga: credible hunter and defense round, with practice & buttstock shell holder a fast shooter, lighter recoil than 12ga. if you dont want a shotgun then a marlin 22lr semiauto rifle. if ccw or handguns are politically impossible then spend a bit more on long guns. total cost $500-600. my humble opinion.
I would rather stick with a good 12 gauge because they have converts so you can shoot anything from a 308 down to a .22 round so you get all that outta 1 gun. I’m sticking with my 12 gauge and machetes
The broader range of weapons one has available the better. Every weapon is a trade off between weight, range, cost and killing power. One size does not fit all. Much depends on the situation. Home, Pocket, Car, Bug out bag:
Home: Choice of Maverick 88 12 gauge 8 shot pump, Chinese Model 53 in 7.62x54r, High point 40 Carbine and pistol depending on response time and threat assessment.
Pocket: Taurus 738 380 so light and fits in pocket easy enough to always carry.
Car: Sig Sauer P229 40 cal for when one needs more power.
Get home bag: choice of 1022 takedown and AR-7. As a feeble old man who is working at getting in shape and still has a way to go, carrying a 7 to 10 pound rifle would kill me quicker than the zombies. A 3 pound AR-7 with a few hundred rounds would be so much better than a pistol for so many things.
22 rifle, currently semi auto, but in hindsight a bolt action may be preferable due to simplicity, a .40 semi auto, again, a revolver may be preferable, a scoped 30.06 bolt action. Coming soon, 12 gauge pump. All sporting type arms, there is something to be said for this.
When TSHTF the only thing left to shoot will be gangs of cannibals, your family, then yourself. Wildlife, livestock all dead.
Here are the guns/rifles/pistols I inherited. Double barreled Shotgun,
Winchester 30/30 rifle, 22 semi auto rifle, something from 1898 rifle,
45 pistol, 2 sat. night special.22 in a 45 frame.
Could anybody tell me the dif. in a air rifle & a pellet gun?
How can you tell when a rifle isnt any good anymore?
whats the best gun for a short woman?
wheres best place to get the weapons checked out.
thanks for helping me
I’m just a guy on the net so look for other opinions as well and go with what you feel is the best info.
Get the gun you have checked out and buy some ammo to practice with them.
If you find you don’t like the kick or anything else about the guns you have sell them and buy ones you do like.
(Could anybody tell me the dif. in an air rifle & a pellet gun?)
Basically there are 2 types of air guns the BB gun and the Air rifles/pellet guns.
Air rifles and pellet guns are for the most part the same thing. They have rifled barrels and only shoot pellets that are made of soft lead that will not damage the rifling. A BB gun is usually a smooth barrel (no rifling) as the steel BB is very hard and will scrap the rifling out of a rifled barrel.
BB Guns for the most part are low power kids toys.
An air rifle as generally higher quality and more power. A Gamo is a good air rifle to own as the quality is pretty good and can be found for $140.00, but it’s hard to cock.
Many air rifles shoot a .177 pellet at 1,000 feet per second. That is more then enough to kill small game like rabbits, squirrels and birds. But they are also hard to cock so before you buy one ask the gun shop if you can cock it a few times. It may be too hard for you to do.
On the other hand if you think you may use it to hunt small game a hard cocking gun may not be so bad as you will only cock it a few times.
But if you want to plink with it a pump-up gun may be better as they are easier to charge with air.
The Crossman 760 and the Crosman 1377 air pistol are both in the $70.00 or less range and can be pumped up to 10 times to hunt with or as few as 3 times to plink with And 3-pumps are a lot less effort. Both of these shoot BB’s and pellets. Many young boys have killed a lot of small game with these. Are they the best guns? NO, but they work and will last years. I have both from the 1980’s and both still work as well as they
Did when I got them. They fire a .177 pellet at 500 to 600 feet per second. Not up to modern levels, but still a good gun to use.
You can shoot an air gun indoors easily. Just fill a box with newspaper and tape it in and it will stop a pellet. 7-inches of paper will do it. You can practice in your home and no one will know as they are pretty quiet.
There are a few choices as far as pellet size. The most common and the one I would recommend is the .177. there are also .20, .22, .25 and all the way up to 70 cal that can take down big game. The .177 and .22 are the most common with the .177 being the most common. Every Wall-Mart and every other store has .177. It’s by far the best one to plink with as the pellets are the most common and the lowest price. I have been into air guns since I was a kid and over the last 25-years have gravitated to more expensive ones. I only own the .177 cal guns and can personally attest to their ability to kill small game.
Pellets like everything else have went up in price but you can still buy them for much less then 22 ammo. I must have 40,000 pellets so I don’t buy them much these days. Look in the sporting good department of Wally World and they will have them for under $2.00 to $3.00 for a 250 count tin. Use to be a 500 tin cost $5.00. I did just buy 2 500-count tins at a local gun show for $15.00, but they were match grade pellets. Even being a bit more expensive 1,000 pellets for $15.00 is a lot of shooting fun for the price.
(How can you tell when a rifle isn’t any good anymore?)
When it doesn’t work. But honestly most all guns are made well and will with even less then perfect care will last for a hundred years. Any gun shop can check out a gun for you.
(What’s the best gun for a short woman?)
It depends on what you want to do with it. A Ruger 10-22 is easy to shoot, it doesn’t kick at all, you can get 25-round mags for it so it can be used for home defense. No one is going to live if you shoot 10 to15 22 bullets into them. And the 10-22 can fire 25 bullets faster then you can count them going off. You can change the mag with a full one in under 5-seconds and have 25 more bullets ready to go. And you can find a Ruger 10-22 for $150.00 or less, I see used ones at gun shows for $100.00 all the time.
A revolver is also nice, a 38 Spl. Worked for cops till the 1980’s and again used ones are inexpensive. $150.00 or less used but still in good shape. The 38 Spl kicks a bit, but not that bad. And being a revolver it has no safety to wonder if it’s on or off. Just pick it up, point it and pull the trigger and it goes boom. It holds 6 shots and a bit slow to reload, but then you can do what I do, have more then 1 gun on you in your home.
If you go with a handgun and expect SHTF get a holster so you can carry it on you when doing things in and around your home. A gun sitting on the nightstand does no good when you are in the garden picking tomatoes off the vine. A holster is a good thing to have.
A pump 20 Ga shotgun could work but a shotgun, even a 20 ga. Kicks. If you are interested in a shotgun look for a local person or gun shop with a range where you can try it first. It’s easy for us guys to say it doesn’t kick but you may think it kicks too much and a gun you don’t want to shoot is no good to you.
(Where’s best place to get the weapons checked out.)
Any good gun shop will do it. Try to find one with a range so you can practice shooting with it and any other guns you have.
Gun shops are very aware that Woman today are worried about protecting themselves and have classes for woman. They carry a lot more guns then in the past that work well for Woman. They are willing to take the time to teach you and make sure you are comfortable with the gun.
PS: an important thing about guns, they use ammo, buy a lot of it, do it every week till you get to the point you can’t find places to store it.
I didn’t make this very clear.
The Crossman 760 is a rifle and the Crosman 1377 is a pistol.
Wally World may have the 760, but I did see both of them in Bass Pro a few months ago.
I find that adding a little weight to the typical lightweight 20 gauge will make it nice to shoot for smaller folks. Wood stocks typically can be drilled for some fishing sinkers or even spare shells under the butt plate. Synthetic. Stocks often are hollow and some epoxy and sinkers help with recoil.
I currently have a Springfield M1a Battle Rifle, A Remington Model 572 22 rifle (Because it shoots shorts longs or long rifle), A Glock Model 21 and A Remington Model 870 with 2 barrels 9slug barrel and a bird barrel. I think this should cover most everything.
I currently have a Springfield M1a Battle Rifle, A Remington Model 572 22 rifle (Because it shoots shorts longs or long rifle), A Glock Model 21 and A Remington Model 870 with 2 barrels slug barrel and a bird barrel. I think this should cover most everything.
My 5 would be as follows
1. M1 garand 30-06
2. M1918 B.A.R 30-06
3. m1903a4 30-06
4. Ithaca model 37 12 gauge
5. M1911 USGI 45acp
Now call me old or call me crazy but I’ll bet these guns will be running way after your ARs go to crap and those nice would stock’s on the rifle help if you can’t get a shot at the attacker and don’t even think of pistol whipping the bad guy with a glock but that 1911 will knock em out cold. Let the berating begin.
I know this is an old thread but I just read it today (4/6/18) and it amazes me how many experts there are on what is supposedly just around the corner and have absolutely decided their info on an event that has not happened yet is the end all of all info on the subject.
I cut way back after a divorce made me sell a lot of guns to survive, but I have over (I think as I don’t count them any more at this point and the pissing contest is not important ) 2-doz guns and am not going to get into the pissing match (and yes a lot of this thread is a pissing match) as to what guns are the only ones to own post-SHTF.
I think it’s more important that you have guns and ammo then it is what gun you have.
If we do get a bad SHTF people will figure out even a few 22 bullets will kill you with no medical help a phone call away. Heck even now a 22 is deadly when you can get help by calling 911. No one wants to get shot with any gun.
And all you arm-chair fools telling others that their gun is garbage and the only good guns are the ones you bought (and are emotionally attached to) because you own them are going to be surprised when one of those guns you say are junk may put a few bullets into your body. But you can lay on the ground beading to death knowing you have the right gun in your hands and the other guy with XXX gun had a piece of junk. Be it AR or AK they both have done the job and are deadly, if you think otherwise you may find yourself in a bad position and find out how wrong you were.
It’s entertaining to read all this testosterone filled BS post.
Get a gun (get several both handgun and rifles) almost any gun will do. Get a lot of ammo for it /them and practice with it/them. Develop a mindset of situational awareness of what is going on and be willing to act on it and you will do better then most keyboard-commandos.
And in these gun threads it seems everyone decides we are going to have a full blown SHTF Mad Max World and nothing else is possible.
What if we don’t get a full Mad Max situation? What if we get a bad ecnomic-SHTF that will still be bad but is short of your SHTF Mad Max wet dreams?
People that still have jobs are going to go to work, trade will still go on, things may still be around but just expensive and in short supply. And more important the Government will still be there and will not want us running around with rifles whipping them out and shooting people hundreds of yards away. Not to mention your neighbor will get a bit pissed off from a fool with a high power rifle shooting his family member while looking for small game in his yard or the local field or park. I can see you and your kill everything mentality getting taken out fast if you go all crazy on people. And shooting people that are hundreds of yards away and no threat to you is the very definition of CRAZY and at that point I hope you get shot. If you shot someone’s Son while he was out with his Gamo air rifle looking for small game to feed his wife and kid, family members would make it their mission to kill you for doing so.
Not to mention the fact that killing someone will at some point come to the attention of the local cops and they will hold you accountable.
The fool above that says handguns are going to be useless is just that “a FOOL”.
FerFal, the only one I know that actually did live through a recent SHTF and wrote about it (ecnomic SHTF in Argentina) points out in his book (all you armchair commandos should read it) that no one was walking around with rifles.
Everyone that could get a gun wanted a handgun. Rifles are just too hard to carry on you all the time. And a handgun in a holster is ready to use in a second or so and can be carried on you almost all the time.
Most all encounters that involved the use of a gun was within a few feet of the other person and a handgun works well in this situation.
Rifles and shotguns are great for survival in the wilds where animals are involved. Handguns are great for situations where humans are involved. It’s hard to have the rifle/shotgun at the ready when digging in the garden, when hanging clothes to dry, when swinging an ax to chop firewood, when digging a trench. At this time you put the rifle aside, lean it against the fence and grab the shovel. What are you going to do when a person happens upon you when your rifle is 10-feet away leaning against the tree? Me I would reach for the handgun in the holster on my hip and walk to grab the rifle. You should have both, it only makes sense to have the option of both at the ready.
As to those “only-rifle fools” have you ever watched the 1960′ show The Rifleman? Ever notice how many times he put the rifle down, put his gloves on and did some work. And it happens that that is just the time the bad guy with his gun entered the scene. Yea it’s a TV show but what makes you think a person intent on doing bad things to you would not wait to come out in the open to accost you when you had your handy AR/AK in your hand? It only makes sense they would wait hidden till you set the rifle down to carry your fire wood into the house. This is where a holstered handgun shines.
Not that it is not good to own a rifle (I have many 22 up to 3006) but to state that a high-power rifle is the only SHTF gun to own shows a real lack of thinking.
It’s fairly easy to have both a rifle/shotgun and a handgun, why does it seem people are foolish enough to not see that both are tools worth owning?
Not that I’m a gun expert, I have been shooting since I was a kid, started buying my own guns in 1980 and have worked at a gun shop, reloaded ammo for myself and for the gun shop to make extra money. I am a member of 3 gun clubs and shoot a lot. Likely shoot more then most here as I still get free ammo from a gun shop for doing some gunsmith work.
But as knowledgeable as I am, I don’t get on-line and punch computer keys and tell the World at large that their guns are garbage and that my guns and methods are the end-all of how to do it.
I know that a guy with a 22 single-shot rifle can kill me just as much as an armchair commando with an AR or AK and 20 mags of ammo.
I do think everyone should have a shotgun, a center-fire rifle, a mid range handgun, a 22 rifle and handgun. But it’s only my preference and not a DEMAND that you do as I say. What guns to own are for each of us to decide and there are no absolute right answers and no wrong ones.
I also have a good air rifle and air pistol to plink with and I feel these could be handy to harvest small game for food if needed. But I bought these a long time ago to play with, not for SHTF food. They will work for SHTF food but that is just a bonus, not the reason I own them.
A High point in your hand is better than a Kimber on lay away when things go bad.
High Points are a tad UGLY but they are pretty reliable, USA Made and have lifetime warranty. Not bad for a cheaper handgun eh?
Chuck, I have noticed in my years that there is several versions or ideas of “Survival Guns”. As far as “Arm Chair Commandoes” no weapon performs well with out training and skill.
For putting protein in the soup pot there is a lot of good about a Gamo air rifle, quiet and effective on small game (rabbit and such). I have had the pleasure of hunting Hogs with a PCP Large Bore rifle a Dragon from Korea IIRC. Nice if not a bit odd looking. Worked well on the Hog and my impression it had the same Get Up and Go as a 357 pistol on those Hogs. Those PCP are NOT QUIET. Effective and some are quick multi shot weapons but pricey.
If your Survival needs to shoot larger game lot’s of options esp. if you think like a Poacher. Decades ago when funds were short I popped a small deer with a 22 mag. And I did not tell the whole Valley I had shot something. Fed the family along with the garden for a few weeks. Now if I had fired off my 30-30 I would have gotten that deer BUT I bet the Game Warden would have visited.
If your Survival needs are to stop other people from stealing or violence then I would say no .177 or .22 Air Rifles unless that was your only option and you better back it up with knife and club. Otherwise in my experiences I have observed 1 time the sound of the 12 gauge pump being racked drove away a thug and he bled quite a bit from the window glass. One time I was holding but not pointing a revolver and that person saw Jesus and left a changed man :-) other times as a Soldier mostly we shot them with the M-16 as we were not required to defend our decisions with a lawyer.
If used with skill and thought a weapon is a useful tool. If used by a foolish person not so much.
PBBairguns has some nice air rifles, 308 to 457 cal and 20ga shotguns, they have a real nice air pistol, ive been looking into getting a couple different ones as i cant legally discharge a firearm on our property, zoning and proximity to neighbors, but an air rifle isnt a firearm so byebye to the pesky pheasants, and hope the deer start coming on our place
Nail Banger have you looked at Hatsan and Seneca PCP air rifles and pistols? A LOT cheaper than PBBairguns and I have used both brands. Very nice weapons. The 50 cal Seneca Dragon has 230 foot pounds of effect. Good for deer and hogs with good shot placement. You can even have a suppresser on it to quiet it down without (yet) getting BATF excited.
Have not but will check it out, am seriously looking, is a loophole in the local laws that would keep me from getting in serious trouble, plus not as loud as my .308 😎👍🏻
Extremebigboreairrifles are the other guys i was talking with, theirs are a little more custom, hard hitters, like my regular rifles im not afraid to py a bit more for higher quality, i shy away from production rifles as much as possible
Wow! This is still going, been awhile.
Survival isn’t always about complete social breakdown and economic collapse of the entire western civilization. It can be a simple as car breaks down on a lonely stretch of highway. Or slide off the road during winter. Getting lost while hiking/hunting. Depending on the situation in hand will dictate what weapons/arms you will have if any.
End of the world scenario:
North America continent:AR-15 variant 5.56 or 300 blackout and my Detonics combat master in .45 my m6 22lr/410 survival rifle in my pack
Asia continent: AK variant
Detonics 45 on hip and my m6 22 hornet 410 survival rifle in/on my pack
300 blackout PDW with tac 14 12 gauge and Detonics .45
@ Dennis and NH Micheal, like a Hawaian tour told us one time about cooking up wild chickens that run loose over there. One wild chicken, caught and cleaned, into the pot of boiling water with a piece of volcanic rock, cook until the volcanic rock is soft and then the chicken is ready to serve. Honest, that was his recipe for cooking up those wild chickens over there. ( chuckle, snicker )