OPSEC And Your Circle Of Friends, Family, Acquaintances

OPSEC stands for Operational Security. It can be very important. Especially during times like we’re experiencing today.

What is OPSEC? In short, it’s keeping your mouth shut. Keeping certain things, plans, topics, (whatever) — out of plain sight or conversation with others. In other words, it’s sort of keeping a secret (about whatever it is).

Prepping, preparedness, issues of security, and MANY other ‘things’. Maintaining good OPSEC may be more important than you may realize. Especially when it comes to your immediate circle of friends (and others) – even those you may trust to varying extents.

Your immediate circle of friends, family, or acquaintances whom you may trust. Here’s how it could happen…

You mention something to one of your inner circle. It seemed harmless enough to mention. After all, you trust that person not to blab to the whole world about it, right?.

Well here’s the thing… That other person might not have the same level of OPSEC or concern about that particular nugget of information as you do. That info ‘might’ inadvertently come out during another ‘harmless’ conversation with someone else from THEIR OWN circle of friends.

So now that information (whatever) has been revealed two levels out from you. Even if that person who is within the second ring of people (who now know the “nugget”) is not a blabbermouth, – that person might not realize the OPSEC value of the nugget of information that was casually revealed to them. And then that person ‘might’ inadvertently (or on purpose) reveal that information within THEIR OWN own circle (which would now make it three levels away from you).

All it takes is one person to potentially take advantage of that information to ‘ruin your day’ so to speak.

Loose lips sink ships. Ever had that one before?

I am speaking very broadly and generically. But I’m trying to explain how information can spread beyond your circle of trust, even inadvertently.

So how do you maintain good OPSEC? When it comes to certain things that may be better off ‘secret’, then maybe it’s best that you be very careful who you say ‘anything’ to.. if at all.

I’m not presenting a ‘paranoid’ type of suggested behavior, but I am suggesting that some things should be on a ‘need to know’ basis. Only YOU know what those things are.

So not only ‘think’ about what you say before you say it, but ‘think’ about WHO you say it to…

Unfortunately, today’s changing world may flip what once may have been “normal” or okay to do, say, or have — into something “bad” or even criminal. We see it happening all around us. Right now. Very sad.

[ Read: When The New Left Takes Absolute Power – They Will Exact Revenge ]

So for example, it may not be such a good idea for others to know that you’re “prepared” (to whatever extent). Or to mention to a buddy that you have 4,000 rounds of M855 (for example). To have your food storage inventory in plain view. Having your vehicle plastered with stickers indicating your ideology. I could go on. But you get the idea.

Listen, in many places throughout the country this isn’t really a huge deal (right now). You may be living in small town rural America among mostly like-minded liberty-loving individuals and families. However the politics and policies of this nation could change fast. Especially depending on the results this November election.

Food for thought.

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    1. Yeah, I’m the same way, my wife however has been a liability when it comes to Opsec…she is a person who likes to chat and share, she thinks prepping is an activity that is kind of humorous. I’m not sure how I’m going to have to deal with this when the storm hits.

      1. WilliamtheResolute,
        Thats like my significant other, not so much with random people, but her family members,,,
        They are coming here when things go south.
        Sorta not cool

        1. Kula
          Tell’em to bring all their lauder and goodies with ’em,
          and to check their attitudes at the threshold.

    1. True Joe,
      We can’t forget about little kids. Even if you tell them and stress to them they are to say nothing about things stored at home, they will outright blab or give a hint to someone. You know how little kids are. My dads car is faster than your dads car or you guys only have one fridge and food in the cupboards, we have two freezers and a room full of food. When it comes to OPSEC, there is always a weak point. Just do what we can to minimize the weak point or strengthen.
      Weak points: kids, Fedex person delivering package, satellite overhead, nosy neighbors, radio tower in yard, jacked up light bar on roof OD green BOV, Gadsden Flag flying high in yard, large garden visible from road, solar array in yard, or a giant pile of split wood. One of them alone might not be enough to give it away but two or more and people will easily put the pieces together.

      1. It’s interesting to me how much everything has changed in the past few years. We went from the whole city standing together after a hurricane, to every man for himself attitude during this pandemic.

  1. Here is how easy it is for gossip to spread.

    Bill: How is Mary?
    John: She’s moving out of the city to a small town.
    Bill: she will be safer there.
    John: Yes, she will.

    Bill to wife: Mary is afraid to live in the city and is moving to a small town to feel safer.

    So easy!

    1. Exactly, Skeezix.

      Just like the Telephone Game where the first person in a straight line whispers a phrase to the person next to them. By the time the phrase travels down the line and through all the players interpretation of what they heard, the last person doesn’t even come close to stating anything closely resembling what was originally said.

  2. Besides the saying ‘loose lips sink ships’, there is also ‘out of sight, out of mind’. It is much more troublesome to explain to someone why you have preps (600 rolls of TP) than if they don’t see it at all. If some of the stash is stored in the garage, put blankets, sheets, or tarps over it all. All someone will see is a pile of something covered in the garage. If someone sees the covered pile and asks what is under the covers, just say you are keeping the dust off some stuff a friend left there temporarily when they moved. They are coming to get the rest of their stuff soon. Then let their imagination go to work. An explanation like that will lead the person to think: couch, chairs, table, clothes, and other regular household stuff and not 600 rolls TP, 15 cases of bleach, sealed garbage cans (Faraday cages), camping supplies, BOB’s.

    1. blue
      Am I drawing attention to myself if I walk around in fill tactical gear, wearing yellow tinted sunglasses, and a MAGA hat?

      I don’t think so but I’ve been wrong once before. 😜

    2. Do you mean NOT leaving spent targets around with 5 or 6 holes in the bullseye?
      Just hide the fireworks somewhere safe . . .

  3. Friends, family, acquaintances, your appliance service person, your UPS guy… Will all have the capability to know unless you live double lives. The question is, do they care to notice and further do they care to do anything with that knowledge? Are you a frail person that caves under pressure or someone with a solid composure that shines under pressure?

    It’s not just the stuff that gives away your preparedness. It is your delivery through life. It is your attitude. It is your mindset.

    People are great at doing risk-based calculations. They don’t care if you have 600 rolls of toilet paper if they think it is out of reach. They might tell their friends you have 600 rolls of toilet paper but if that person even cares they will likely ask and that person who told them will say that you aren’t parting with your 600 rolls of toilet paper. That person relaying the information will have credibility with the third person or they won’t. And if they don’t, they won’t believe that you have 600 rolls of toilet paper to begin with.

    Would I go advertise that I have a car loaded with gold bars in the trunk and leave the doors unlocked at the local bar? No. But would I fret over the USPS guy seeing you get a lot of Nitro Express packages from Midway? Or that your neighbor’s in-laws you have a bunch of cases of toilet paper in the garage when they came to borrow an extension cord? Nope.

  4. A comment from the peanut gallery………I chose to put my most valuable survival stuff right out in the open… in plain sight. No one has dared take it or steal it or damage it. Most don’t want it cause they don’t know how to use it. I am still learning, but fall short sometimes. But…then again most people value the worthless and disregard the priceless treasure. Sorry, I was talking eternal survival not modern survival. Ok….under the theme of “the more you know, the less you carry,” I chose to go lite in all preps cause I know a lot. I don’t have to hide or guard hardly anything. I focus of the 7 necessities to sustain life. Yes, yes I know, food, food, food. I know how place stealth gardens and all that. I know how to trap and rig a trot line, etc.,etc.. I never wanted or had much, so I don’t need much. Be ready to move people, and move fast if you can. That is if survival is important to you.

    1. Correction: SoulSurvivor not SoulSurvival. But wait a minute………. not bad. No, I will stick with SoulSurvivor so as not to confuse those zero’d in.

      1. Ah yes………
        Silence is Golden. Has special meaning to me in several areas. For those having the ability to “read between the lines,” look at the lyrics of that piece and apply it from Adonai’s perspective to His bride.

        1. Good news for all of us:

          Ken – Honest, I did not want to come here in the first place….This is the only place I ever posted. But…… I was told to do so. Don’t shoot the messenger (he is imperfect), take your complaint or comment to the home office, He will deal with me. I leave you with Matt 10: 11-14 and Hosea 4: 6.

          M’Lynn – 1Peter 3: 16-17. Bless you. You got it right. Sorry….. I’ve been told to leave….and I know His voice.

          1. You had a few witty moments there, reminded me of skipping rocks on a lake.

  5. I thought it interesting–one of my nieces told me she’d heard we had a whole bunch of toilet paper in the garage, from another niece who has never been IN the garage. Weird. I have no idea where the information chain went from there, and I have no desire to know. Probably goes back to one of my siblings (or more) who remembers what Mom kept in there.

  6. My youngest Grand-daughter came for a visit this summer when the virus thing kinda calmed down. Her mom and I had been talking about how much food and supplies they had laid in. Grand-daughter noticed my sewing room/pantry room. She wandered in and gazed around, came back out and said to me, “Well. You won’t go hungry.”

    “That’s right,” replied I.

    Since all the shortages, I could tell by her comment that she was more “aware” of what was going on around her now. She’s 10.

    Good teachable moment. Will she blab it. Might. They live in another town some 30 miles away. So, we’ll probably be ok here.

    I do have a nephew that I wouldn’t tell the time of day to. He’s already a “brown shirt”.

    Neighbors all see my garden and know I can everything I harvest from it. Our church also has connections and we order bushels of all kinds of stuff I don’t grow from cherries to beets and carrots and more. I always offer to my neighbors that they can order through me, but… they always decline. Not interested in bulk buying. What a blessing they are missing out on. I also make a run or two out to Amish country for their produce. And can it. I was somewhat concerned when jars and lids became hard to get. So far I have enough.

    The UPS man knows my freeze-dried bulk ordering from BePrepared dot com. Don’t know what I can do about that.

    I don’t think I’ll be bugging out. Too old. This place be my last stand if it comes to that.

    Prep your souls.

    1. Grandee….God sent me a message to visit a couple with 4 kids I hadn’t seen in a year.
      The message turned out that it was for me to benefit the visit, not them.
      We discussed canning, etc, shortages of lids.
      She has gone to the same Amish store I bought from for jars and lids and the owner said she is concerned that next year…who knows?
      This is me saying buy all the jars and lids you can at whatever cost if you can.
      I have many cases of jars and shoe boxes of lids so I’m okay.
      Places like Ace Hardware and places off the beaten path, not Walmart.

      1. AGREE WITH YOU 100%

        I spent weeks trying to find enough pint jars to can my black eye peas. After some 13 Dollar Gen stores and a few hardware stores, I finally have enough for the peas and for the corn coming in next week.

        The regular size (small mouth) jar lids have been just as hard to find. Hubby scored big at a Dollar store some 40 miles from home ! 133 in the little boxes. The clerk said he could buy them all. No limit. So–he did !! They are all hidden away from prying eyes. :)

        Also – we should all be searching the stores for the canning jars. We don’t know what next year will bring

        1. Amen..like the Amish store commented about uncertainty of next year’s lids…with what has happened to this country’s food line, unemployment, cafe/restaurants closing…..eyes have been opened to what we are doing and have been for years—they aren’t laughing at us now!!!

  7. I have officially run out of space to put my prep stuff.

    Henceforth, it becomes part of the furnishings.

  8. What is the old line about secrets– two people can keep a secret if one of them is dead!

    1. Also, remember this if you tell someone.

      If you can’t keep a secret, how can you expect anyone else to?

  9. If your gonna store stuff your kids ans family will see make sure you got an offsite stash that they do not see.
    Super Secrete and Sneaky… Make sure when you visit that off site stash you do not bring your Luciferian Homing Beacon Device with you.

  10. The new left is extremely tech savvy.

    Once in power, your IP address history will be scoured (remotely) for anything deemed “unacceptable” by the Obami STASI.

    Off to a re-education camp you go, staffed and run by Antifa and BLM sycophants.

    Your children will be sent to a different camp. This “special camp” will be staffed mostly with LBGQPDF pe do ph iles. They will take turns in the rape rooms “re-educating” your children. The screams will only be heard by God Almighty.

    Ponder the above before your next firearms training session.

    1. Folks of MSB. Blow the whistle on this guy. He is a leftist agitator in the vein of Vlad Tepes of TTAG. Don’t feed him. It’s probably the same guy.

  11. Every MSBer should commit the following few sentences to memory:

    “Somewhere, a True Believer is training to kill you.

    He is training with minimal food or water, in austere conditions, training day and night.

    The only thing clean on him is his weapon and he made his own web gear.

    He doesn’t worry about what workout to do – his ruck weighs what it weighs, his runs end when the enemy stops chasing him.

    This True Believer is not concerned about ‘how hard it is’; he knows either he wins or dies. He doesn’t go home at 17:00, he is home. He knows only The Cause.”

    1. Can’t recall exactly but either Brad Thor or J. Carr had that in one of their books, either author is worth the read, opens some eyeballs a bit, fiction, but believable. Not to promote, but the books got me drinking Black Rifle Coffee.

      1. Grey

        Yeah it has been around for a while but I really love that quote! Have committed it to memory.

        I think it was originally posted at the JFK Special Warfare center in Ft Bragg, NC.

        The truthfulness of that quote has been made abundantly clear during the fake peaceful protests (insurrection) .

        Stay frosty, Grey.

        1. Ready, Fire, Aim- author Carr is ex-military, his books are reviewed by the DoD prior to publication, some names, descriptions and locations are redacted. Yup, one of the books does have Ft Bragg stated in relationship to the quote, advanced training I think.

          As authors, Carr and Thor are my current reading addiction, sharpens the thinking about the current circus.

          “They” won’t and never will stop, the rules of conflict mean nothing to the enemy.

  12. The dick I live with (his actual name-dick) thought is was funny to comment on me being a prepper to explain away my oddities.

    “oh he’s a prepper” kind of thing.

    I asked him to stop, when he didn’t i threatened to blab away some of his personal issues, things you learn weather you want to or not by living with a person.
    He did stop, at least when I’m around.

  13. On OPSEC,there is a “need to know” and a “want to know”. Those that need to know are very few in number. In my case I can count them on one hand without using my thumb.Those that want to know should never know, ever.
    I am amazed how many people blab about how many jars of veggies I canned last week or how much ammo I have or how big my garden is , very foolish.
    Silence is precious and a key to survival.

  14. I tried years ago to encourage a few of my bestest friends to prep, but it fell on deaf ears. One believes God will see them through. Maybe that means living off of others like us. I would try to help as I could. My biggest concern is that in trying to get a few close others to help themselves, they may have said something to someone else that could compromise us. After the shutdowns due to the virus, however, I no longer feel an obligation to encourage anyone to plan ahead. If they don’t get it now they never will.

    1. NW Gal,

      You’re my Pal!

      Sorry, I couldn’t resist 😉

      Seriously though, you are spot on! If people don’t get it now, they never will.

      In regards to preps, I have always been pretty well tight lipped but early on in my prepping journey, I did suggest to a few close friends the wisdom in prepping. These are the people I now worry about the most!

      One friend in particular has a wife who sometimes has “Karen” tendencies (no offense to anyone named Karen). I did not realize this when they first met and married. During the early stages of Covid when supplies started to disappear, she made habitual comments that “hoarders should be punished and thrown in jail”. Now mind you this, all supplies we had accumulated (N95 masks, PPE, TP, hand sanitizers, food stocks) were bought WAY before the Covid so we were never a burden to anyone who needed supplies during the current pandemic.

      To this day, I still worry about her. With that particular couple, I NEVER DISCUSS PREPPING, EVER!!!

      Loose lips sink ships!

      If people do not understand tge need to prepare now, they never will!

      1. Ready, Fire, Aim!

        That’s grand! 😊

        I’ve found other ways of helping friends that don’t compromise our opsec, like suggesting where to buy Clorox bleach when it was hard to find or giving someone gardening advice. My challenge is where to draw the line on social media. I’ve tried to inform and encourage others to vote or take a stand on certain issues. Now idk how much more I should do. I have a friend whose Facebook has been monitored and was temporarily taken over by an anti fa sympathizer FB tracker. This had been my way of fighting back. Knowledge is power. I pray daily about when to speak and when to stay silent. The problem with staying silent is acquiescing to evil. For my children’s sake, for future generations, we need to fight back against the evil we see. It may be, though, that this window of opportunity for speaking out, is rapidly closing.

  15. My DH is our worst enemy. He was so proud of me when I first started learning to garden and can food, bought some inter-cranial lead injection materials and leaned how to use them, and learned so many other self-reliant skills. He would tell EVERYBODY how we prep. Outright called us ‘preppers.’ After multiple times of warning him about Op-sec I finally had to shout it at him to SHUT UP ABOUT IT! No one is supposed to know!!!! He has finally gotten the message. Oh, and what was so amusing years ago he is now very grateful after the self-quarantine we’ve had to go through thanks to TPTB.

    And quiet about it.

  16. So two questions still remain.
    1. What would you be willing to do if your children were starving?
    2. Is 600 rolls really enough?

    1. NRP
      1, if they are starving 600 rolls dont matter cause they wont be pooping!
      2 if they were my kids? And starving? I would do whatever it took to feed them,
      But then again, i doubt my kids would be starving, i can find food where most see only weeds
      Thank the Lord i dont have a family in this awful time.

    2. NRP & Blue

      1. What would you be willing to do if your children were starving?
      Hope I never have to find out. That’s why I prepared so much

      2. Is 600 rolls really enough?

      1. NRP&Blue/Kula/SMG
        1. Whatever I have to do to prevent that from happening..
        2. No, 600 ain’t enough, if we’re talking the rest
        of your and their lives, and then some.
        3. You can never have too much of anything, except bad news.

        1. K bay

          Be it known that you can do anything you want to feed your family, as long as it isn’t poaching deer with snares or electroshock fishing!

          I suggested those ideas and got crucified for the mere suggestion!


          1. RFA – ‘as long as it isn’t poaching deer with snares or electroshock fishing’

            That is what is known as a straw man argument. The method that stirred up a response was neither of those things. Saying it was is just false.

            The method in question is the use of Rotenone, which would kill everything including stuff not fit or of a size to eat. It’s wasteful, at a time when wastefulness has the most impact. My point was you are also ruining said pond for yourself when your big catch runs out. Not sure how that equates to crucifixion.

            Civil disagreement is a good thing. Provides an opportunity to state your case, be able to defend it on principle, and/or learn a thing or two. And we can all learn a thing or two.

          2. Farmgirl, at this point I think it’s pretty clear what we’re dealing with. A discussion where the rules change with every post is not a discussion.

          3. Lauren – Yeah, I know. Almost did another one and deleted it. Time is another resource that shouldn’t be wasted, and it’s rather precious right now. Thanks for the tap on the shoulder. I appreciate that.

          4. Lauren
            . . . .
            Astute observation. Note that your hypothetical question wasn’t answered.
            . . . .
            Wonder if the self-selected nom de blog is indicative of an overarching sense of recklessness.

    3. If they’re starving, they clearly were playing too much PUBG so maybe they should work on their Chicken Tendy Defendy skills so they aren’t so hungry.

      600 rolls of toilet paper are enough. Depending on the diameter of the roll!

  17. This is the time and place for me to explain a very commonly misused word: “ignorance”. The root word is “ignore”, that means that it is there but you choose to not consider it, you ignore it. Why is this important here? Because you want your neighbors to be ignorant of what you are doing, that is, to ignore what you are doing. They see what you are doing, but they don’t know what you are doing; they choose to not put it in any “prepping” context. You don’t need to hide anything from these neighbors, they choose to hide it from themselves. You can do things to help them ignore what you are doing, and it isn’t difficult to do. There are actually very few people who pay attention to what their neighbors are doing, or if they do, what it means.

    1. Yes, this is very true.

      I am digging a trench by hand using a shovel every morning. I own a trencher. The neighbors see me out there digging and think nothing about it. If I were out there with my gas powered trencher they would stop and ask.

      I am running POE cameras out to the road so I can put a camera covering my mailbox and the entrance to my driveway.

    2. As an example, I posted several photos online with each photo displaying the date 2011 of us in Alaska. Several people who saw the photo online saw us on the street and said “welcome back” and “how was your trip?” totally ignoring the date posted several times on the photo and title.

  18. What is the old saying….. “silence is golden”.

    Some have woken up to facts when the shortages hit this spring. Some haven’t. Time maybe, likely is, short. If they are trying and I know them well I point out some areas that if “I were putting up extra just in case I would…”. Otherwise silence.

  19. Seems like most of us here in the bottom moved here for a reason, and for most the reason is the same – to be far away from Dodge long before the need to leave manifests itself. I’ve got livestock. With the animal noises there’s no hiding that. More and more folks on this dead end road are raising animals. More greenhouses going up, more gardens and fruit trees going in. We’re all protective of the resident elk herd and most of us see it as emergency provender should the need arise. Ditto the deer on upper end, ditto access to creek and river fishing spots. Now and then I chat with neighbors about disaster preparedness and being ready just in case things get bad. Far less chatting since the virus appeared, but heightened awareness of the worsening conditions all around us.
    . . . .
    Sometimes talking is necessary. Have talked to a neighbor about access to the creek where it crosses their land as a water source should the need arise.
    . . . .
    Farm helper knows the extent of my preps; they are serious preppers too. Some family and friends know this is their destination if things go south. I think it’s the same for many here on the road. A niece who visits has seen some items. Mostly everyone knows about the animals. Fat and protein I say; a good start on self-sufficiency.

  20. The following is only to be used as in a “worse case scenario” when rule of law has completely collapsed and starvation is commonplace. Please obey all game laws otherwise!

    The following is definitely worth knowing but keep it to yourself.

    Meat gathering in austere times.

    Forget sitting in a tree waiting for a deer to walk by, wastes precious time. Learn how to use snares and conibear style body gripping traps. I bought my first car with the money I made from my high school coyote and bobcat trap line. Snares made for feral hogs work excellent on deer, pronghorn antelope and elk. 15 good snare sets on active deer trails can catch 5 deer in 1 night. Smaller snares and body gripping traps can catch an abundant supply of smaller game, size the trap according to the size of your quarry.

    Forget sitting on a bank with a pole, line and hook, very wasteful use of precious time in a collapse environment. Research a product called “Rotenone” and learn how to use it. It is an aquatic Piscicide (fish killing compound) derived from naturally occurring chemicals. You will catch every fish in the pond with it. Be prepared in advance on how to deal with a large catch by having a fish smoker set up in advance.

    If you use any of the above information for anything but an extreme, life threatening emergency, expect to (deservedly) end up in jail and facing a multi-count indictment of various game law infractions.

    Respect and obey all game laws!

    1. Ready Fire Aim – If you kill all of the fish in the pond, what will you catch later? Wouldn’t you want to leave the smaller fish to grow? There must be other methods to use to catch a large quantity. Assuming you want to live longer than one big catch of fish, and will need to eat.

      1. Farmgirl yes there are less destructive ways to do survival fishing. You can build fish traps and size them for the size fish you wish to release like those small ones to grow out over the season. Cone fish traps are simple and you can even release unwanted fish to become breeders for next seasons fish crops. Snares and traps work well, sometimes too well. During the great depression poacher-trappers selling meat to rich city folks pretty much eliminated the deer and such from many areas. Have the ability to USE all that you trap or your just destroying your next seasons options.

        Harvesting what you need and can process and allowing the rest to breed so you can have their offspring later is a better idea. After all you don’t kill off ALL your chickens for a massive Sunday dinner do you? You kill what you need and try to breed-grow up more for later.

        Only soldiers passing though destroy what they cannot eat today as to starve out the “Enemy”. See Sherman’s march through Georgia in the American Civil War.

        Surviving a Civil War-SHTF situation is along term effort and dealing with short term events as they occur. The Spanish Civil War had civilians suffering from armed groups of men from ALL sides taking, raping and burning as they marched through. Same in Bosnia. Civilians suffer the most. What was that song about the night they drove ole Dixie down “we gave what we could but why did you have to take the very best” a civilians complaint how the Confederate Soldiers did to their own civilians?

        Food is a weapon of control if your hungry, food is a tradeable item on the grey market between trusted friends, food is options when things get interesting. OPSEC is not talking-bragging about how much you have especially on the open internet, disinformation is getting folks to think your broke and hungry yourself as not to be high on the targeting list of armed groups from any political stripe.

        Winter is coming and hungry people have excellent memories AND the motivation to do what they need to eat. Plan for that friends. A plan B olive barrel or three full of “Currently Cheap” dry goods hidden *might* carry you though a really bad night when your home is ablaze and you’ve escaped with the clothes on your back to rebuild with trusted friends help. AND that plan B better be known to just those you REALLY Trust. Survivors of the Holmadore had their buried cabbages that kept them alive under Stalin’s Thugs. History often rhymes.

    2. Ready,aim,fire, Forget the game laws, Rotenone your own ponds. Someone rotenones my pond, they will deal with trespassing, thiefth of my property(my food) and the 4 shot in their britches as they are hepped over the fence as the only and last warning. Your suggestions are not advisable even in the hardest of times, a time when one should be the most resourceful. Waste is not resourceful!

    3. Snares to catch 5 deer in 1 night is not hunting for survival, nor is rotenone in a pond when several fish would have fed your family.

      It doesn’t take a fantasy of rainbows and unicorns and lollipops to respect the balance of nature and allow it to provide for your needs without raping it brutally and savagely for your own want.

      To echo TXDAN, your suggestions are not advisable.

      1. M’Lynn

        Your harsh criticism is understandable in a time when store shelves are stocked with food and your belly well fed.

        30 days without food will have you singin’ a different tune.

        1. 30 days without food is immaterial–3 days without food would see many people taking your advice, then three days later go back expecting to find fish in that pond only to find it dead.

          3 days without food, and they go out and follow your advice, kill five deer in one night–and most of it rots on the ground because they don’t know how to process it or don’t have the facilities to store it.

          The following year, there is nothing for the survivors. The pond is dead. The deer are dead. All the small animals have been hunted out and most of them wasted by people who thought all they had to do was put up a snare.

          If you want to do scorched earth on your own property, kill the deer, destroy your environment without concern for what you will eat next year (and don’t assume that your neighbor will let you “fish” in their pond just because you’re finished eating what you killed the last time) that’s your choice. I prefer to look to the future as well as the present.

          I will not eat my seed, because that’s next year’s crop. Essentially what you’re doing with these suggested processes is eating your seeds.

          1. Lauren,

            These methods are already very well known, just rarely spoken about and will quickly be employed at the first sign of an acute food crisis.

            Being forewarned is forarmed!

          2. Forewarned may be forearmed, but you weren’t forewarning anyone–you were putting out a recommendation and telling people what they should do. I agree that people will do these kind of things, but that doesn’t make it either right, efficient, or safe. Your recommendations have nothing to do with preparing for the future, and everything to do with getting “mine” before it’s all gone with no consideration for what you will eat next year or ten years from now. Once your seed is gone, there is no getting it back.

        2. No sir, it will not. It will have me even more committed to the plan that Lauren has laid out below because THAT is how true survival is achieved. You invest in tomorrow rather than greedily strip it bare because it felt good today to wield the power to do so.

        3. Ready, Fire, Aim!,

          While I understand……and to certain extent agree with your assertion that desperate times can call for desperate measures, I’ve got to side with Farmgirl and M’Lynn.

          Using rotenone on a pond to harvest fish would be akin to chopping down the apple tree to harvest the apples. Sure, you could climb the tree or use a pole, but why not just cut it down……….of course it’s no longer a continuing source of food…for you or anyone else.

          General Sherman employed this method to demoralize and bring famine to the population, taking what he needed, destroying the rest.

          I would have shot General Sherman……………….

          1. Yep,,,
            Spot on Dennis, and all yall who are thinking.

            Poison the whole pond,,,,
            Wow,,, just wow.

            How about a fish trap, wire cage with a bait in it, pull it up and check it, can toss back small fish, pull one or two bigger ones to eat,
            Same with the deer, you ever try cleaning 5 deer? Packing 5 deer? If it aint frozen outside those deer are throw aways, and what if you snare 5 does that are carrying?

            More apropos might be desperate times require careful thought

            Just my opinion, but what do i know

          2. Dennis

            When many many others are using Rotenone or electrofishing techniques on lakes and rivers in a grid down environment or snaring deer, how can you morally justify it is not OK for me to do so?

            You are in Arkansas. These methods are very well known throughout the Ozark region and very likely your ancestors used them during the depression.

          3. Ready,Fire,Aim,

            Don’t know where you get your information, from experience, or from reading. You are making assertions (accusation?), certainly casting a wide net (pun intended).

            You are correct, my ancestors (and myself, before they were outlawed) used fish traps, gill nets, and yes, old hand cranked telephone generators to harvest fish. Never took more than we needed, all are limited in the impact on the total fish population, and none completely decimate the fishery.

            Rotenone? Yes, I’ve used it. Not to harvest fish, rather, to remove all the fish in my own private pond. Rotenone kills the fish. Rotenone is indiscriminate. Rotenone is used to sterilize a pond that has an overpopulation of undesirable species so the owner can start from scratch so after introducing desirable species, they can thrive.

            Yes, fish killed with rotenone are edible. I know of no one who has used rotenone solely for the purpose of harvesting fish. Big mistake to equate rotenone with electro shocking which stuns the fish, doesn’t destroy it, much less all other aquatic creatures in the pond it’s introduced into.

          1. If gathering food for my family and community that I love and care about is wrong, then yes, you are correct.

    4. Ready, Aim, Fire
      Shall post in the open comment section a way to fish without wasting you time while you are working.

      1. @Dennis

        I was making no accusations, sorry if you are offended, not my intent.

        Just a general statement that these methods are already quite well known in the Ozarks, as well as Plains, as well as Appalachia. I am not revealing anything new.

        I guess you missed the comment in my original
        post above about Rotenone;

        “and learn how to use it”

        Learn how to use it does not mean kill the whole dang pond, lake or river, I though this was understood. I guess I was wrong.

        With Rotenone, yes you can foolishly destroy an entire aquatic ecosystem or you can use it responsibly to selectively harvest fish, your choice. The Yanomame and other indians of Amazon and Oronoco river basins currently use a Rotenone (in its natural plant-based form) for selective fishing, without destroying the entire Amazon river ecosystem. They also use poison darts from toxins found in the skin of the dart frog. Very safe, very effective. Native Americans did the same with the juglans chemical found on the husks of American black walnuts (juglans nigra). So yes, learn how to safely use any toxin before foolishly trying it out on your own pond or a public river. I really thought that was rhetorical.

        My fault for falsely assuming people would learn the safe use of Rotenone instead of dumping an entire IBC container of it into their koi pond.


        1. There is always dynamite for fishing. I don’t think it’s legal but fun and fishing at the same time.

          1. INPrep
            M-80 with taped fuse, much less kill-zone.
            Much more quiet, but not nearly as impressive.
            I guess a little less fun, oh well!

        2. Not Rotenone, but a neighbor bought a different chemical to treat algae in a stocked runoff pond. Wife and friend decided to help and combine paddling around treating with the intake of copious amounts of alcohol. Needless to say husband came home to a pond of floating dead fish.

          I wouldn’t ever use chemicals to harvest fish. But there are several alternatives to increase your take without chemicals or dynamite. As far as overfishing to get it before someone else, I hope it never gets that dire where I’m heading.

          What about time and personnel for security from bears, wolves, 2 legged varmints while cleaning and smoking? Security for smoked, salted, preserved food? If you depleted the resource locally and then lost out your entire take to varmints or someone more stealthy or better armed, then you would be out of luck.

          How would you keep others from seeing you in action? Line fishing or fishing at night or fish traps or nets and so on could be done more surreptitiously.

          I think everyone needs to spend a little time of thinking through the absolute worse case scenario and what those conditions would be for you in your area. Then estimate how likely it is to occur and expend time and resources accordingly. Then periodically re- assess.

          On the plus side, it is true humans often lose their humanity when starving. This string of posts does get is all thinking and considering. Better to have thought about where you will draw the line than to wake up one day and realize you’ve crossed it.

    5. Ready, Fire, Aim!

      This is NOT a threat to you. Just a fact of life.

      In our area of operation, implementing what you just wrote, would be a very big tactical mistake on your part, and you would/will be dealt with,…harshly.

      1. SMG,

        I can deal with your veiled threats, they bother me not but lets stick to debating the issues, not making threats, agreed?

        I will stand firmly by what I say. Your false bravado comes from a position of well stocked store shelves and a well fed belly. When the food runs out and you haven’t eaten for weeks, you will have a completely different mindset. Years of military data collected from SERE schools and POW resistance training reinforces this position.

        The fictional scenario of the fishing and hunting techniques I described revolve around 1 fact:

        THERE. IS. NO. MORE. FOOD.

        You cant buy any. You cant trade or barter for any because THERE. IS. NONE.



        So the dwindling supply of fish and game stocks are up for the taking to the man who has the abilities to get them.

        So you would shoot a man who snares a couple of deer to feed his family and his clan?

        What if he was poaching on his own ranch?

        Folks here in the midwest would not take kindly to killing a man (your not-so-well veiled threat) who is trying to feed his family, regardless if you approve of his method of taking game. But perhaps that is just the difference of mindset between the midwest and the left coast.

        Good day, sir.

          1. Sir,

            A veiled threat is still a threat nonetheless as the results are all the same for the recipient, death. Consult Black’s law dictionary for further reading.

            I see you avoided the question. I am curious, would you hypothetically kill a man for illegally taking a couple of deer to feed his kith and kin?

          2. No. I would not. Your entitled to your opinion, in this case, a very un-popular opinion.

            Nobody knows, what SHTF, is gonna look like, but rouge warriors like you, hurting the whole community, will be very un-popular.

            If, if I was gonna do something like that, am I not gonna, I sure as hell, would not advertise it to to the whole world. Your Ospec is blown, right now. Maybe your neighbors, don’t know yet, but they will.

            I’m done debating with you, as I said, You are entitled to your opinion, and, so am I.

          3. SMG ,
            We interact with 7 different groups besides our own in the surrounding area.
            Every group has a list of undesirables in their AO. People that are on the radar. Thieves,drugdealers,
            troublemakers. It is not a list you want to be or get on. It really won’t take much for some of these groups to act upon the list.
            That particular attitude from RFA will get him noticed and not in good way with groups in his area.
            Many have had years to think through the response. Code of Conduct will be implemented when ROL goes out the window.In most cares it will be extremely harsh…

          4. I am not sure about anyone posting here but I have never been to the point of starvation where I would do anything to obtain food for family and self. In a TEOTWAWKI situation, there would be hordes in the same situation, willing to do anything for a bite of food.
            I personally have no idea of how I would react in a situation where food was super scarce. Anything I say would be just conjecture. What is proven is that when people are starving, they are not running on all eight cylinders at that time and as a result might not make the best decisions for that moment. They are most likely thinking about food NOW. They probably can give a crap less about whether there will be any fish left to repopulate in six, eight months, or even a year.
            Just like my pappy said, ‘never say never, you don’t know what you will do’.

          5. INPrepper,
            have you ever watched that series
            “naked and afraid “?
            After a couple days they are ready to eat anything.The local lizard population takes a huge hit along with bugs. It’s not easy procuring meat. Also they don’t have a working knowledge of local edible plants.The main takeaway is if they are not out looking for food they are thinking about food.(24/7)
            Its funny how they all have skills but it’s way harder to do survival stuff all day everyday .Lessons to be learned there…

          6. Bill
            No, I never watched that show. I would see previews sometimes during commercial breaks. That was enough for me. I remember one preview where a person was complaining because the other person focused on building a cot or sone such so they could kick back instead of looking for food after arrival. That told me everything I needed to know about the show. I could be wrong, I’ve been wrong once before.

        1. RFA, let me ask you a question. Would you, hypothetically, kill someone for trying to stop you from destroying their food supply (i.e., pond)?

          1. SMG


            hope I didn’t miss any other Karens. Sorry if I did.

            If my immediate family, tribe and community are starving and I can go out and procure meat for them either from my own ranch, public land or private land (with permission), those folks will be extremely grateful for my efforts.

            Be honest, the truth is you just don’t approve of my methods. You both are intelligent men. Why in the world would you want to waste valuable time sitting in a tree waiting for a deer to walk by when traps and snares are a MUCH more effective use of time?

            In a true survival scenario, time would become extremely precious as garden, security and general homestead work would increase.

            A venison roast or crappie fillets on the community’s dinner table is food all the same, regardless how it got there.

            You 2 men seem very quick with your bravado to “go to guns”. Thats the problem, if all you have is a hammer (gun), every obstacle looks like a nail.
            My methods avoid this by keeping my community fed.

            If you critically study famine and starvation, desperate people are much more quick to gun up and lose any resemblance of civility when faced with possible starvation. Well fed people are generally more civilized.

            But you tough men got your AR, your AO and your group and your NODs so solve things your way. Oh, good luck beating a murder 1 charge for smoke checking a guy who poached a couple of deer. BJH already admitted how his AO “will deal with those types” which constitutes premeditation, which constitutes murder- first degree. On the other hand, prison might be the safest place compared to the revenge his unedumikated redneck family will be seeking.

            Again, reference Black’s law dictionary for further reading.

            G’day gents

          2. Absolutely not! That is absurd to even suggest such!

            My state’s statute on using lethal force is only for

            “immediate fear of grave physical harm or death to my person”

            You do know your state’s statute on lethal force, don’t you?

            Killing someone for stealing food is not only immoral but it is an excellent way to be facing a grand jury on murder charges.

          3. RFA,
            That sure flew right over your head. Procuring food is not the issue. poisoning ponds ,stealing food,poaching on other people’s property is and always will be the issue.
            When ROL gets tossed aside , property owners will be the law by default.
            Some will be more be tolerant. Some will have zero tolerance.
            During the Great Depression many a thief was dispatched and buried with little or no fanfare. Folks were more tolerant back then.
            Tolerance is kinda thin now…

          4. Prison,
            Three meals a day, free TV.-sounds good in a starving time. Just watch out for big Mel who hasn’t seen a woman in 10 years.

          5. This reminds me of that game, I think it’s called Conflicted or something where folks are given SHTF scenarios or some such.
            So far this is all just conjecture. To my knowledge, no one here is setting up snares right now to get Bambi or lining up the jugs of Retonone to kill Nemo. This is only a discussion in a what-if. Unless we have been down the road of starvation, we truly don’t know how we will act/react in such a situation.

          6. To RFA.
            “Oh, good luck beating a murder 1 charge for smoke checking a guy who poached a couple of deer.”

            This is a false and irresponsible statement. Some states have “castle doctrine” statutes. Let me read you ours.
            “A person may use deadly force to protect life and property should an intruder trespass.”

            RFA. You’re no prepper in the proper sense of the word. You’re a leftist informant who is researching conservative websites and blogs in preparation for the upcoming election.

            The castle doctrine has been used as a defense in several breaking and entering cases in our state with a 100% success rate even in civil court. Your “information” is not to be trusted.

  21. OPSEC, I’m all in for that! I have racks of AK’s, AR’s SKS’s and Riot shotguns and more handguns than I can count, and stacks and stacks of ammo of all different calibers. I have one closet plumb full of toilet paper and a dry cellar full of 50lb bags of wheat and rice and case after case of canned goods and MRE’s. I’m not going to tell any of my friends what I have and none of my family. We’ll maybe just my wife, sorry but that’s just the way OPSEC works. My lips are sealed, so I’m pretty sure nobody will know! Trekker Out

    1. Mountain Trekker:The NSA will know what you have,who you are,and where you live if you don’t stop posting information like you are doing.
      Hopefully everyone realizes that nothing is secure online even if you are speaking in generalities.

      1. I may be wrong, but I read his comment as a satirical comment on OpSec rather than a true statement of what he has.

      2. Right Vickie, guess I need to brush up on my OpSec. Now that I’ve exposed myself, and since guns and ammo are in such High demand, Think I’ll sell all my guns and ammo and make a killing, so to speak. But I’ll keep all my other supplies and not tell anyone about them, since the NSA won’t care about the other stuff, I’ll be good to go. Trekker Out

  22. my wife is crippled i have stocked up on a LOT of canned food but she has to have home health aids for her own health and we have the canned stuff all out in the open we are in a apartment so storage space is really limited the REALLY vital stuff like weapons and ammo are out of sight but there are back packs survival magazines and books all over the place opsec is pretty much out the window for us

  23. Farmgirl

    This is why I added the caveat “be prepared for such a large catch”

    You can smoke the fish and then salt them for long term storage.

    Also research “electroshock” fishing. Most state DNRs use electroshock to study fish populations and take samplings.

    You can make an improvise electroshock apparatus with an old hand crank wall telephone or DC leads from a gas generator.

    If you think these drastic and extreme methods of hunting and fishing will not be deployed during austere times, you are absolutely fooling yourself. Crank phone fishing was made famous during the depression, and it will be so again in collapse v2.0.


    These are extreme methods for sure, you missed the caveats above. But believing that people will always respect game laws in a long emergency is rainbows, unicorns and lollipops.

    1. Ready Fire Aim – I think all methods will be on the table during austere times, no fooling here. What I said was, in essence, killing *all* the fish in the pond is a really bad idea if you want to eat again when your large catch runs out.

      I know what rotenone is, and you will kill *everything* in the pond if you use it – dead pond. Big fish, little fish, fish eggs, frogs, toads, etc… It’s natural enough to be allowed in organic agriculture under certain circumstances, and toxic enough that people rarely use it.

      Since you’re speaking to however many people read this blog at any given point in time, I thought it might be useful to suggest finding another effective method that isn’t so scorched earth – or ‘scorched pond’, in this case. Big catch using currently illegal methods – totally get that. Killing the pond for the foreseeable future? Not very forward thinking.

      1. I understand your criticism, it is well taken. Especially in a time where such methods seem so draconian.

        However in austere times, my method just harvested hundreds of pounds of fish that my tribe smoked and salted away in a salt barrel and will feed us over the next year or two with plenty to donate to elderly friends and neighbors or donate to the church.

        My snaring method for deer just did the same thing. Now my tribe has meat for 2-3 years and we don’t need to waste precious time attempting to procure a dwindling resource.

        And how much social capital did my methods just build by donating food to people who cannot otherwise procure it due to age or physical inability??

        Sorry to hurt your feelings but welcome to the harsh, cruel world of survival and, more importantly, starvation mitigation.

        Your criticism is based on the very false paradigm that starving people will be magnanimous and willing to live in “harmony” with nature and only “take what they need”.

        Farmgirl, 30 days without food will have you doing the most heinous and horrendous acts to procure food for yourself or those you love.

        I know what starvation does to people and I will do WHATEVER it takes to make sure my tribe never sees starvation.

        As the leader and patriarch of our tribe, I will be damned if one our the young ladies ever gets so hungry that she entertains the idea of soliciting her body in exchange for food. Such nefarious ideas would have been an extreme failure on my part.

        Harden up people!

        Read up on the Holodomor, Balkan War, Irish Potato Famine, Siege of Stalingrad. Survival is not happily sipping a latte while birdwatching at your peaceful Montana retreat while counting the happy fluffy clouds passing by!

        Damn people, harden up already!

        1. Your contention that NOT becoming a beast is all lollypops and unicorn farts indicates a state of mind that I’m not sure I want to contemplate.

          I have read what you’re talking about. I have also read the other side of each account, where people did what was necessary without becoming monsters. It sounds to me like you have internalized all the hatred and bad that this world can give, without taking into account the good.

          Whether you believe it or not, in each of those situations you mentioned, there were good people who survived without hardening to the point where they were no longer human. Good does exist. It always has and always will.

          Good luck, and I sincerely hope you survive emotionally and spiritually as well as physically. I’m not sure I would want to survive in a black hole where no light exists.

          1. Lauren

            With all due respect to you.

            Would you please take some time and read the work of Selco about his experiences during the collapse of Yugoslavia and his time during tge Balkan wars? Pay special attention to his writings on what people would do in exchange for food. Eye opening indeed.

            Also, please take the time to read the work of former special ops soldier and military SERE school instructor Jonathon Hollerman (Grid Down Consulting). Hollerman’s work is based around his time as a SERE instructor. He writes in detail how young, fit American military soldiers start reacting and behaving very ruthlessly when faced with a week of starvation at the SERE school. If well disciplined soldiers start to lose it after a few days without food, imagine the effects starvation would have on Al the Accountant or Suzy soccermom…or you…or I….

            Survival is not always like Hollywood portrays, good does not always triumph. In austere times, even good people are often forced to make extremely cruel and ruthless decisions. Don’t believe me? Read up on the cannibalism of the pioneer Donner Party.

          2. Lauren –
            “Good does exist. It always has and always will. Good people will survive without hardening to the point where they are no longer human.”

            Well said. And sincerely appreciated. Thank you for being the voice of humanity.

          3. We can always add sawdust or grass to the soup. They do that in NoKo today. Mmmmmm maple sawdust, tastes so good. Give me more. What??? I can’t, I know I’ve already had my one bowl for the day but I’m hungry.

        2. RFA – We do not disagree on the primary assertion that desperate times call for desperate measures. If I have failed to communicate that, I take responsibility for it.

          Doing whatever it takes to prevent starvation in the ranks, with regards to the fish pond, looks like this to me: secure the damn pond! Use whatever large catch methods will allow for future harvests, and protect your food source. The pond is a food source for you, yes? Then manage and secure it, so it remains a food source for you and not a giant toxic puddle.

          Hardness is good, wisdom is better.

          1. Farmgirl,

            When I said “pond”, I meant any open public body of water such as a public pond, a public lake or a a public river. I never meant taking something from someone’s private property.

            I should have been more specific in my initial post.

          2. Ready Fire Aim not intending to argue but much like “salvaging-scavenging” vs looting discussions in a grid down situation there IS NO Public unowned waters. Someone is going to use that critically needed resource once SHTF for drinking water if nothing else and the rotting mess left behind by toxin fishing is a problem for quite a while.

            That public lake-River etc. is going to be viewed as “owned” by some group and using such a destructive manner of fishing is likely to generate some ahhh scoped centerfire responses. I have several “Public” water ponds and such around and I have hope to harvest a little duckweed and such for side dressing my gardens. I accept I may have to discuss with my neighbors who also have thoughts about that pond when SHTF.

            SHTF survival is again a long term effort while dealing with short term issues. I might add treating your decent neighbors as well as you can with in security needs will likely be good in the long term. Don’t need to add the “Hatfield’s and the McCoy’s” to the stewpot of troubles that a Leftish take over might give us.

            OPSEC is ALSO Not giving your neighbors a good reason to rat you out to the Socialist Thugs for revenge reasons.

        3. I more or less agree with you. Others are commenting on sustainability, which I also agree with.

          The part that people forget is that people don’t want to die.

          Someone poisons the earth and someone else is hungry? They know you pillaged the sustainability of a resource? What is preventing them from pillaging you? They’re going to justify it in their mind because they think you’re being selfish. It doesn’t even matter if you are. People are good at justifying awful behavior as it is, and the act of taking more than you need is justification enough for others.

          What I’m getting at is if you choose to remove hope for others via what appears to be egregious behavior to them, they will feel justified in the same as it is “fair”. So they might just put a 30/30 behind your ear, put on your shoes, and tell the young women you spoke of earlier to feed your carcass to the pigs.

        4. RFA, you say “harden up”; however, took exception when you were advised how a person employing your methods would be cleanly dispatched. We know your position and you now know how it will be taken by most. How about we drop this particular subject as many of us are having to scroll past a lot of your comments?

    2. RAF, You would have better luck gettin’ your shiney hiney out before daylight and running the roads for road kill, probably fresher than a snare caught doe snared the day before. Your “caveats” are not reality. Game Wardens will not be enforcing the law in these times. You will be to your own judgement(?). My elders raised in South Texas during the Depression( both sides) did not go to the extremes that you describe. Hunting took effort,skill and time, something you must lack, they would travel quite a few miles to hunt as game had become scairice. the younger ones were the meat hunters. I do know that even the old poachers around here would shun you for the wastefulness you would effect. Might even get you a wet roping!

      1. You lack reading comprehension, good sir. I never implied “wasting” anything. Processing 5 deer inside of 24hrs is a cake walk with a few experienced cut men.

        All meat will be used, brined and salted away and hides tanned, bones pressure cooked for marrow, bone shells fed to guard dogs.

        Yes, shooting a 180-200 class deer does take some skill and a LOT of luck, harvesting venison, in quantity, takes very little skill. With some basic knowledge of snares, anyone can do it and given the right austere environment, most will give it a try vs. watching the kids starve.

        You hold tightly to your paradigm of survival, I hope it works out well for you.

  24. @NH Michael

    “Food is a weapon of control if you are hungry, food is a tradeable item on the grey market between trusted friends, food is options when things get interesting. OPSEC is not talking-bragging about how much you have especially on the open internet, disinformation is getting folks to think your broke and hungry yourself as not to be high on the targeting list of armed groups from any political stripe.”

    This is solid gold buddy. Great job!

    The events of the Sukharevka and the Holodomor hit very close to home. A precious part of my family is in the USA because of those events.

    Spociba, druk

    (Thanks friend)

  25. Right now in my area we’re still out of power day #3 due to tropical storm isais
    Can’t be as grey because you hear the generator
    You know which houses have them in our suburban area.
    Wondering if those more quiet and expensive Honda inverters would be a better idea in long run

    1. That’s why I bought my Yamaha, years ago. Super quiet – like the Honda. Costs some bucks – but that was my decision. Glad that I did it.

  26. Responding to all of you that preached and no one listened—I bet they are listening now and not laughing about our strange behaviors and strange rooms and strange collections in those buckets.
    OPSEC is destroyed with just one person –word spreads from there.
    God bless and keep safe those preparing for their families…as I Timothy 5:8 tells us.

  27. Let me relate my experience regarding “saving the pond”, or “don’t clean out the herd”, …. not completely accurate quotes but I just speed read the comments.

    This is in times of no hunger ….

    I have been fishing in lakes where I have had good luck only to find within hours or days, many other people have shown up – someone is always glassing you out there. Soon, the best grounds are completely fished out. The same has happened when I fished some good streams and somehow the word gets out and soon, no more fish.

    Hunting elk and moose, has been the same. Come out with a good size animal and next week or next year that area is covered with RV’s and the game is hunted out or chases high in the mountains. In several cases, the animals are taken before the season opens and even worse, all animals are shot, legal or not – even cattle and horses.

    So, in times of real hunger, any food source you may have will be overrun. Ready, Fire, Aim, may be right in harvesting and preserving the food that is available because all ethics will be out the window. I wish people were more respectful of other’s property and would protect wildlife for the future, but that is not the case now and certainly will not be the case when the SHTF.

    1. “I wish people were more respectful of other’s property and would protect wildlife for the future, but that is not the case now and certainly will not be the case when the SHTF.”

      Probably not. But he recommended this action. It wasn’t “This will happen,” or even “This might happen,” but “I’m going to make this happen.” There’s a lack of humanity here that is concerning. He didn’t say this is something to think about, but said that people SHOULD do it. And he said that he WOULD do it.

      People do things in desperation that they would never do in “normal” times. This is true. However, planning to get the jump on the desperate says there’s something broken already. The desperation has already hit, and he considers whatever he does to be fully justifiable, regardless of the consequences.

      1. Lauren –
        Exactly. Just like the statement to commit the lines to memory that our children will be gang-raped in a back room and advising us to study the most demented ways to survive, while laying out how altruistic HE will be as leader of the tribe to share with the elderly and helpless women, lest they are left with no recourse but to trade their bodies. Present yourself as the one and only answer because you will pillage and provide for their needs if he is kept in power. Very socialistic, Soros, left-ward thinking mindset. Especially the THERE.IS.NO.MORE.FOOD!!

        Strange isn’t it that everyone else knows that nature is always producing food. From wild edibles that the women can be taught to identify rather than cower meekly with fear that someone should provide for them. Animal’s have babies that young boys can identify and track and understand sustainability matters with keeping a balance to the life cycle. Fruit can be gathered from trees, berries from bushes, frogs can be gotten, from season to season – for all of us. People aren’t seen as a collective group who can pull together like they did in the Depression, it will all be the very worst war time atrocities that he as tribal elder will keep at bay by being Soros with a few select endorsers. Society and neighbors be damned. He’s taken his by force. And anyone who doesn’t harden to his thinking is sipping a latte out of a rainbow mug, while searching for unicorn’s jumping the puffy clouds. I’m not going through removing Soros from power to create a vacuum for RFA’s to fill. Nor will any other good and decent human being. As Dennis said, Sherman will be shot this time around.

        1. When you, or Dennis, or whoever say Sherman in your allegorical statements we all know you really mean to shoot (me)!

          So you too, M’Lynn would shoot a man for providing food for his family, tribe and community, regardless if you agree with his methods of hunting or not?

          If you and your family were starving and a man in your community offered you a smoked deer backstrap, would you not accept it even if it was not taken in accordance with existing game laws?

          1. Ready Aim Fire you seem to misunderstand that DESTROYING other peoples food and water supplies WILL get you shot in a SHTF situation. WHY you do it is meaningless to those whose healthy fish pond is ruined and those whose emergency source of drinking water is ruined. Your story that the South American Indians do it with out blah. blah blah is factually nonsense. Native people do horrific things to the environment everyday but the number of Native people per square mile is low enough the Amazon Basin recovers in a few months.

            There is no “Surgical Dose” in rotenone. The amount needed to kill fish for harvesting fish KILLS everything in that pond. Stuff you don’t even get to harvest like the turtles that simply sink into the muck to rot and pollute drinking water. The bloom overgrowth from all that rotting material makes it unlikely that pond will recover for YEARS to be a fishable source of food.

            Why is that such a difficult concept friend?

            Today I can buy so much food for so little money it’s a almost q historical sin. When the Government sends that next 1200.00 check to keep the masses quiet with bread and circuses go get some 5 gallon pails and fill them with rice and beans. I already have posted on MSB my two bucket 30+ 2K Calories, Plenty of Proteins man days food kit that included seasonings as well as vitamins for around 60.00 so each member of your tribe with that “Free” Money could get about 20 man months boring storage foods. So funding is not really an issue?

            And I stand by my OPSEC comments earlier “SHTF survival is again a long term effort while dealing with short term issues. I might add treating your decent neighbors as well as you can with in security needs will likely be good in the long term. Don’t need to add the “Hatfield’s and the McCoy’s” to the stewpot of troubles that a Leftish take over might give us.

            OPSEC is ALSO Not giving your neighbors a good reason to rat you out to the Socialist Thugs for revenge reasons.”

          2. RFA,
            Hey, bud.
            We don’t know your AO or how many people you would provide for.
            I’ve gone through scenario after scenario in my mind on this manner. I would rather have a possible recovering population, than to totally annihilate.
            There is some debatable ideas flowing around, so you have picked a good topic.
            I like AC’s milk jug fishing idea.
            I have two privately owned ponds. I would not decimate those ponds with chemicals or explosives…..
            Those devices are for trespassers…..lol
            As far as game, it’s a tuff call. The two of us go thru two/three deer a year. And as you may know, when the hunting pressure is on, to harvest a deer is pretty slim pickings.
            I don’t think anyone was doing more than wanting you to see different aspects. Possible outcomes.

            I went fishing awhile back. First time in years. Even the small ones I kept. Swallowed hooks.
            They wouldn’t have survived.
            Cleaned and still fillet them. Entrails went in the garden.

            Don’t let a good thing go to waste.

            Just my input….for what it’s worth.

          3. JC,,,
            Seems to me if somebody is trying to feeda whole bunch of people,,,
            Maybe those people should get off their asses and help,,,
            Rather than completely destroying a resource.
            Its called game management fora reason…

          4. Kula,
            Yes, is true.
            But I can see RFA’s stand.

            I just wouldn’t go about in the same.manner.
            There will come a time without rule of law. Game management.
            Times will become dicey, but.to totally annailate a food source without a possible recovery is,
            …well….. insane.

            Anyone for leg of Sam? Maybe Judith?

            I shudder.

    2. Agree
      The same thing happened where I am from. People found out there were fish in the local pond. Folks came and fished and many of those folks took everything they caught no matter how small. After a few years, that pond was fished out completely. There was no waiting a few years to let it restock. There wasn’t anything left. One could fish for several days and not get a single bite even trying other spots. Those were in good times, not a SHTF situation.

  28. – During WWII, my mother’s father was in a ‘protected’ occupation. He was a driller on an oil rig, which was considered a critical occupation. Because he took his crew to the rig every day, he had additional gasoline and tire coupons for his vehicle. He used them, too.

    One of his roughnecks was a game warden, moonlighting for the extra pay. One particular site had a good supply of pheasant living in the area. When granddad commented that he might have to let the game warden go because of all the “pretty little chickens” running around, the game warden’s reply was to the effect of, “If you have the ammunition, don’t let me stop you. My family eats, too.” Pheasant being legal with .22’s then and now, a couple of rifles started making the trip every day.

    Don’t get too wound up with what a game warden will think when people are hungry. Don’t waste the resource with Rotenone when other means are available, either. A gill net will selectively remove all the fish of a certain size. Those too large will be turned back; too small will swim through. Trotlines and juglines are less effective, but will not destroy the resource, either.

    Should I find someone has Rotenone’d a pond I am using to feed my family, I would be very tempted to add their rotting carcass to the general waste in the water.

    – Papa S.

    1. – BTW, those “chickens” were out of season, too.
      And just FWIW, dynamite, or a ‘DuPont Spinner’ as mentioned above, is great fun, quite productive, and still does not result in the toxic mess “Bug Powder” does.
      – Papa

  29. NH Michael

    Good points but the problem with food buckets is that they are finite. A 6 month supply is just that, a 6 month supply. On month 7, what then?

    If my community can first augment our food needs by first going after the wild fish and game stocks before we needlessly tap into the limited and finite supply of our storage food stocks, why would we not do that? Especially if the scenario were a potential grid down “Long Emergency” as Kunstler describes it.

    Ok, perhaps Rotenone is not plan A, but electrofishing sure beats the tedious work of gilnets, limblines or trotline any day of the week. Electrofishing does not kill, it momentarily stuns. Most state DNRs use this method for taking yearly population samples.

    I agree, it is near a sin to not be well stocked with months of stored food. With lentils being $25 bucks for 40 pound box and rice is stupid cheap per pound, it is foolish not to at least have 6 months to 1 year stored.

    I appreciate your insights, Michael.

    1. – Ready, Fire, Aim!,
      You referenced SERE school earlier. As a graduate, I assure you I have nothing against snares, Conibear or leghold traps, and I have used limblines, trotlines (which are legal in my locale, BTW) and have used under other circumstances gill nets and even rat traps to procure food.

      I have a rat trap in my GHB should I need it, and the means to create a dozen or so snares if worse comes to worse. I have even done “electrofishing” in the past, and I have no issue with that either.

      Had you simply mentioned that your snaring venture earlier was part of a preplanned, large group effort, it would probably not have gotten the response it did. Snares don’t destroy an area like “Bug Powder” would a pond.

      To pronounce that “This is the way it will be,” MAY work in your area, with your ‘tribe’, but that does not mean it will work in all areas for everyone. Open bodies of water in my area are rare enough that someone will be using every one of them in a long term SHTF, and someone would undoubtedly take extreme measures to protect them from such a foolish, shortsighted measure.

      Please remember that not everyone is you, and you are not everyone, either.

      – Papa S.

  30. I wasn’t in Stalingrad, or Warsaw, or Amsterdam, …. as populations starved during the last world war. So, the horror is diminished by history, but I do think the next depopulation resulting from starvation will be much worse than any of use can imagine. We can all say we are virtuous now with plenty, but look at the weakness in our society as people kill themselves over loss of stuff like smart phones or sneakers – but how far are the rest from the same when pets and kids start looking like food.

    1. Solemn words to contemplate, indeed.

      I hope none if this ever comes to pass. However, if it is true that history is the great crystal ball, the 20th century alone brought something like 50 (?) acute famines scattered throughout the globe. Most were Democidal in nature.

  31. Joe C

    Lol, you made me laugh.

    Dang if I would have known the topic was going to cause this much ruckus, I would have just gone fishing instead, pardon the pun.

    Joe C, like many others in the prepper community, I operate under the assumption that faced with a severe shtf situation, the fish and game stocks will be very depleted if not completely annihilated in a long term, shtf grid down scenario. I do not know where Mr Ken falls in this debate but I know Rawles shares this same assumption and that is coming from a guy living in northeast Idaho surrounded by BLM land and state forest. Given his locale, if he operates on our assumption mentioned above, the rest of us living in more populated states are screwed!

    The debate is how to handle fish and game stocks that are pretty much guaranteed to disappear.

  32. In vino veritas. One of my neighbors, well more than a year ago, declared after he’d had several drinks that he didn’t need to stock up on food. His family will just eat elk. He’s a medical professional and well educated. Some of us present for that statement chatted later about the extent to which we might go to prevent the outright slaughter of a herd that spends 99% of its time on land not owned by this guy.
    . . . .
    We also discussed concerns about what he might do if the elk disappeared. Would he turn his hunting skills on those of us with gardens or livestock? Such speculation of course led to additional strengthening of defenses.

  33. Well it my method is to do everything in plain sight, and never act as if I’m doing anything out of the ordinary.

    In WA, I do bulk shopping on the cheap at WinCo. Noted for leaving the stock in their shipping boxes on the shelves and only taking cash or Debit. They carry a good selection of dry beans in 1 lb through 25 lb bags. I have been going once a month for quite a while to stock up. Also our regional Cash & Carry (restaurant supply) has good dry goods and canned, and no one cares if you have a large pallet.

    In MA, I’ve only got warehouse clubs (with limits on some items) and traditional grocery. If anyone asks why I’m buying what I’m buying I tell them about my 85 year old MIL that I’m shopping for (truth, but not all of it is for her.). Same story I give my MA neighbors who know that we have been visiting to take care of her for a number of years.

    Our neighbors in WA and Ma know that we share, but not what we have. Everything is hiding in plain sight. I’ve got lots of boxes for thing I’m going to donate from my dad’s house and the bottom layers are all preps. Even the house appraiser didn’t bat an eyelid.

    We will share as we are able.

  34. I hope we all can step back and think about a couple of things. 1) What are your true lines in the sand if your family is starving and 2) What is the worst case scenario for the SHTF for your specific situation.

    RAF has provided a specific set of responses for his (I am guessing) situation. Many have responded as to whether or not those responses are appropriate for their situation. And in their area.

    And there are stark differences. Amen! God created each of us to be independent thinkers and people.

    And it doesn’t make anyone a “Karen” to challenge each others thoughts. It makes us all better at planning , preparing, and persevering.

    So not being a Karen. RAF if the rule of law is so broken down you believe you can preemptively control a great deal of food resources, why do you believe the rules regarding use of force will still be in place?

  35. Mamalark

    I stand by the “Karen” comment, full stop. Especially to the haters, Lauren, M’Lynn et al. I never once personally attacked any of you, I just challenged your ideas. This is how debate works, attack ideas, not people! However Dennis, BJH, Kula, SMG, Lauren, M’Lynne have all attacked me, even going so far as threatening murder? For real? Over a 150lb deer or 3lb catfish taken by alternative means?

    “When dabate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser”

    This thread was a real eye opener to me. The completely screwed up values that people have here is quite shocking indeed. To place a higher value on fish and game over feeding people is completely eff’d up in my book.

    The good book tells us to

    “take care of orphans and widows in the time of their distress”

    I take that admonition seriously. Yet people on here have seriously threatened murder (Dennis, Lauren, M’Lynne, BJH, SMG) because I merely suggested an easier, quicker method of harvesting venison to feed my family and community.

    F- Bambi! Full stop!

    Let me say it more clearly for all you tree huggers!

    F&$K BAMBI! 🖕🏽


    Have you all lost sight of that?

    What is wrong with you all!

    Have you all been so thoroughly indoctrinated with leftist environmental propaganda that you truly believe it is worth saving a few gotdam bambis in lieu of feeding starving children or elderly friends?

    Shame on you!

    Our forefathers would roll over in their grave for such perverted thinking!

    I am done commenting on this thread!

    Get a friggin’ life already you tired old bunch of geriatric Karens!!

    1. Hello all, seems I’ve missed some reather heated conversations.


      Sorry I can’t stand it when I see a comment like the one above.
      No matter who it is.

      Would everyone please Please PLEASE step back and try to realize most/all of us here are on mostly the same friggen page????

      Ill read the rest of the comments tomorrow, but honestly I dont give a crap who’s right or wrong…..

      I DO GIVE A CRAP when fellow preppers AND MY FRIENDS are spouting comments like the one above.

      Any questions so far???

      1. All, A most interesting discussion.

        My position would stand with most of your comments, ie game management.
        BUT, and it’s a big BUT, I have been hungry. A long time ago, in a galaxy far back
        in my past. I found myself in a situation where, for a short while, I was
        forced to raid the Safeway dumpster for food. Lucky for yours truly
        that didn’t last long, but it taught me at that time, how far I would go to eat.

        It is always a good idea to to try and explore what lengths we would go to, to
        survive in the chaos that I pray doesn’t come, but for which all here are preparing
        to meet.

      2. NRP,
        he posted a scorched earth position on food gathering. Some took exception to his position including myself. He wasnt personally threatened. He was however introduced to cause and effect scenarios that are in many peoples plans and procedures that cover that type of behavior. Mine included. Everyone I know have lists of potential bad guys in their AO. Some are written. Some are just in people’s minds. Everyone profiles people. EVERYONE NRP.
        When ROL is thrown out the window “law “will be enforced on people’s individual property.
        He took exception thinking his position will trump others in A SHTF situation .
        It personally reminds me of what is going on in these violent protests. They try to stop a vehicle and pull the driver out. Then they are shocked when the driver runs their ass over to get to safety.
        It’s a simple case of fantasy getting run over by reality…

    2. Well, now we all get to see the real Ready, Fire, Aim!

      We, MSB Patriots, did not agree with his post.
      ” I just challenged your ideas. This is how debate works, attack ideas, not people!”

      That’s exactly what we did, debate, we “attacked” your idea, not you, not one of us threaten you. Just your in own mind, seeing mad, putting blame, words in our mouths, that were not spoken, on hard come backs, to a post, most of us, dis-agreed with.

      SO, Whose the Karen now.?

      Like I have said, When the going gets tough, cowards turn tail and run. The rest of us? We Stand our Ground.

      1. SMG

        No, you made it very clear in your usual passive/aggressive style you would murder a man who poached a couple of deer in your AO.

        Here is your cowardly veiled threat quote;

        “…In our area of operation, implementing what you just wrote, would be a very big tactical mistake on your part, and you would/will be dealt with,…harshly.”

        So for you, deer are worth more than people and anyone who chooses to take a deer in your AO without your consent, sheriff Buford T SMG or his posse of merry men will by golly smoke check that low life sumofabitch confederate scumbelly with ma Ayy Arrr fifteeeen…… How dare he feed his family! ’Merica!

        1. – Ready, Fire, Aim!,
          Stand my Ground made no such threat. What I got out of the conversation was that if you were to poison someone’s waterhole, literally, was that you might find yourself in harm’s way. Throwing a dead decaying animal or body in a water source is a nasty tactic that dates back as far as history goes, and probably was used prior to that. Essentially, that is what Rotenone used in sufficient quantity is doing.
          – Papa

    3. Who are you calling old? Are you certain I am? Just kidding. I don’t consider myself there yet. Again I am encouraging everyone step back and assess what is being said objectively within your own moral framework. So I’ll give it one last shot.

      RAF – your premise is there are conditions where certain methods of procuring food are more beneficial than others. You provided the context as being a situation of mass starvation. By using those methods, you intend to prevent your community from the awful choices they might make otherwise. Please correct if I got it wrong.

      A variety of responses were provided ranging from caution about over harvesting to be careful doing that around here as there could be consequences. There were several alternatives and what about scenarios also included.

      The discussion then seemed to devolve around the ethics regarding the steps individuals would take to obtain and/or protect food resources in the face of mass starvation.

      RAF – You are very certain of the plan you’ve made for your situation based on your specific circumstances. Correct?

      Then what does it matter if anyone disagrees with you? If you’re sure, no need to take ownership in anything said by anyone or feel attacked by it.

      Do you live in close proximity to anyone of us? If not and you’re sure about how others in your community will react or join in your efforts, good. You’ve got a plan.

      I don’t know your situation, including location. I have lived in or near 6 communities of various sizes in 3 states. In 1 of the 6, your plans may be doable. In the others, it is likely you would be at risk of consequences from someone or some group who didn’t understand or accept your logic. Communication of your plan and reasoning is important.

      Throughout this discussion, you have added more information about your plans that provide a better context for understanding your rationale.

      For myself, I only want to caution all of us to think about such a scenario in your location and based on your specific facts and circumstances. Think about what you might do either in the situation RAF described or in interacting with anyone seeking to obtain food when they are starving.

      Such a situation is unlikely IMHO. That being said I hope no one faces such a situation, but if we ever do, I pray we all get through it safely.

      1. MamaLark
        For myself, I only want to caution all of us to think about such a scenario in your location and based on your specific facts and circumstances. Think about what you might do either in the situation RAF described or in interacting with anyone seeking to obtain food when they are starving.

        Most of us already have, those plans, and they do not include, almost anything, Ready Fire, Aim! said. We choose to use common sense, even when times are really bad, not just go rogue.

        Ready Fire, Aim! did not bother, to see anyone else’s point of view, instead, just doubled down on stupid, threw a “Karen” fit, started calling us names (like that matters at all), then stormed off into his little world, with a very hateful post. Just a Bully, who didn’t get his way.

        Why should us NORMAL Patriots, pay any head to a person, who’s willing to throw almost everyone, who doesn’t agree with them, under the bus?

        BTW, he will be back, with more hateful rhetoric.

        1. I am still here, bud.

          Sorry, I had to make a quick phone call to my attorney to update my will in case I disappear during upcoming deer season.

        2. To “Stand my Ground.” People like Ready, Fire, Aim are leftist trolls. Beware of your responses. TTAG site has had problems with these people. Best to ignore his rhetoric. Whatever you do, DON’T give him any personal info.

      2. Mamalark,

        Your questions are well reasoned and well thought out.

        But frankly, I am done with this topic. It is quickly devolving into the absurd, betimes.

        Oh, and the;

        “Get a friggin’ life already you tired old bunch of geriatric Karens!!”

        Was not directed at you.
        It was more for our great patriotic leader and fearless defender of cheap western grazing rights.

        1. Ready, Fire, Aim again your not understanding the OPSEC benefit of not pissing off people enough to rat you out to the Socialists OR maybe driving potential allies away. Something about treating people like you would like to be treated stuff. Or as my Grandmother might say “When in a deep hole, Stop Digging”.

          Nobody here is buying the divide and conquer act Ok? Nobody here will continue to hold a grudge at you here, your not that important to us. Just stop digging and in a few days post something reasonable LIKE your Actually Face to Face with us instead of from the the safety of the keyboard and you will find welcome again.

          I’d like to think you’d not get so name calling (over and over again…) in a face to face situation. Please stop digging and example incase I’m not clear enough from your Post:

          “Oh, and the;

          “Get a friggin’ life already you tired old bunch of geriatric Karens!!”

          Was not directed at you.
          It was more for our great patriotic leader and fearless defender of cheap western grazing rights.”

          OPSEC is more than keeping the mouth shut. Most of the trouble you’ll get into will NOT come from the Feds but the locals that dislike you more than the Socialist. The famous 20 mile radii idea.

          Thicken your skin friend, if a few people disagreeing with you on the “Friggen” Internet generates this much angst with you how are you going to deal with something really bad?

          Would really enjoy hearing some good information from you again.

          1. I have not been following the comments by one called “Ready, Fire, Aim” but my immediate reaction to the name is that it would be great bait for the left to point out at the redneck nature of this and other conservative and preparedness sites. Without having read any of that persons’ comments I am willing to bet that they are an instigator from the left for the sole purpose of causing trouble based upon their name.

          2. Chevy,
            Good point, perhaps this person is trolling us on purpose to then be able to say this site is full of violent white supremest conservatives so the jagazz left can shut er down,,,

          3. Kulafarmer, exactly. There’s a lot of that going on, we have to look behind the curtain.

        2. Hmm… sounds like a leftist troll to me carefully monitoring the comments on this site. There are many of these leftists on various conservative sites. TTAG has a number of them. Their main duty is to provoke an argument and get personal information on the type of people who patronize the site. Be very cautious of people like this. Most are ANTIFA or LGBT proponents or actual members. They advocate civil war in which they can martyr themselves on the altar of Communism and see the destruction of America when things really go south. Beware.

    4. You shared a way of feeding your family by pillaging other people’s resources (whether they are yours or John Q Public’s is irrelevant). Sounds like socialism.

      I don’t think anyone cares about what you do to you. It’s when you worry about short term solutions to long term problems that adversely affects others that got the attention of the others.

      So, kill your own

      I think you’re dreaming of a world like 3/4 of the way through the book or movie “The Road”. Most of us are not there and that is where the scurfuffle is.

      I will tell you that in my experience that there is always someone better than someone else at something. You just might not have met them yet and when you do it is usually when you’re at your worst.

      When you’re trapping those deer or poisoning those fish remember that there is probably someone hungrier than you, more desperate than you, and better at shooting you in the neck than you are at not getting shot. All the reasons you’ve given to do what you say is the same line if thought that they will have. Especially when they throw your family in the basement while they wait for your carcass to be done in the smokehouse.

        1. Bill Jenkins Horse and other MSB Patriots

          Let it go guys, it’s not worth anymore comments.

          We know right from wrong, lets not feed anymore this troll,

          1. I actually don’t know if they’re a troll yet. I think they just have a bleaker view than most. And they want to share what they know so that is a plus.

            I think there are more people like them than we think. It’s an opportunity to see that side and hopefully through adult non-combat communication.

            I suspect I’m an outlier for most of this community also.

            But yeah, I suspect if someone sets up some snares on our properties, nets our streams, or overfish our bodies of water that their being hungry will be the least of their problems. I just hope they have good shoes.

          2. pinky –
            I think you’re right on the money, with both your response and also your conclusion that there’s more of them than we know.

  36. Being that this topic is still about OPSEC, being the grey man, an undercover prepper; the idea being indiscreet so nobody knows what you are doing, I suggest looking at it from another angle, how observant are you of what others are doing?

    Do you scan grocery cart contents of shoppers at the grocery store? Do you cruise the neighborhood to see if there is anything to see? What do you hear that others are doing? What do you observe of their OPSEC? I’m talking about being observant, not spying. What is the point of doing this? It’s good to know.

    Who do you not want to know about your prepping activities? Hungry neighbors? The government? Marxist gangs? Neighbors are easy to fool, hungry ones not so much. The government and Marxist gangs step it up a notch.

    1. Chevy
      I know exactly what you are talking about. Me personally, I can care less what someone has in their shopping cart. Here in Chicom country, people are super nosy. They will stop just to look in your cart to see what you are buying. When waiting at the elevator, they will ask what you have in the shopping bags. I see some walking around trying to look into people’s apartments to see what they are doing. I have seen people standing in dark spots in building entryways looking out and watching what people are doing. Me, I’m more private. I don’t care what folks buy or have in their bags.
      To me, it’s NUNYA–Nunya damn business.

      1. Correction:
        After pondering further, I might take note of things at times. If I see a person wearing a BLM shirt with an antqueefa sign on a hat, I would take note look into their cart and gander what they were purchasing. Ohhh it’s just the usual stuff in a shopping cart-milk, cans of spray paint, electric leaf blower, goggles, knee pads–you know, the stuff we buy when out shopping everyday. Then, the question becomes-where are they going with that stuff?

  37. made the mistake of giving my views on prepping to a good friend when I was new to the game he has mouthed off about it in many places since keep it to yourself let your friends and family know to ask for help in times of need but never be to explicit !
    As to the sub conversation if the only way you can feed yourself or your group is to poison whole ponds or lakes what do you do when all the lakes and ponds within a days travel are barren and you need to travel for at lest 2-3 days or more to get food leaving the group you care for (you know the ones that are unable to supply food for themselves ) unprotected and unsupplied .

    1. If I have to travel 2-3 days to get sone fish, I’ll say heck with that and drive 30 minutes to Kroger and get the fish there.


      1. lol :) or prepare now buy a net and an inflatable boat a small electric motor , or a dozen other ways to catch fish in bulk with out compromising the whole supply !

  38. Under any conditions, it would be very unwise to totally destroy a renewable resource, yes you may eat today but what about tomorrow. You know the old saying, give a man a fish and he’ll eat for a day, teach a man how to fish and he’ll eat forever. Just don’t teach him to use rotenone! Trekker Out

    1. MT
      …destroy a renewable resource….yes, except in the
      case of enemy bi-pedal carbon units

      1. k-bay, an enemy bi-pedal, is that like two Liberals on a tandem bicycle, or is that like one man walking up right? Just asking. Trekker Out

        1. MT
          Oh come..on.. that’s an easy one, it’s both, no, wait, it’s
          all three….right..oh hell, shoot ’em all.
          A little levity goes a long way in our world, ne pas?

          1. The definition depends on if you are speaking in normal USA English or freaky deaky libtard speak,,,,

  39. Social media is one place where people throw anonymity to the wind. I know of one bunch that posts of there whereabouts when they are on vacation or not home. Also all their toys and goodies.

  40. Chevy, I don’t know if you read about all the toys and goodies in my comment a little further up the column, you know the ones I’m not telling any of my family or friends about, well next week when I’m going out of State for a week, I won’t have to worry because I have a friend down the road that will be watching my house for me, he works nights but he’s pretty nosey and see’s everyone that goes down our road, so I don’t think I’ll have anything to worry about. Trekker Out

  41. I get the whole concept of OPSEC. This is such a fine edge though. How does one retain OPSEC and at the same time try to find others of the like minded persuasion while trying to build a MAG (mutual assistance group).
    There are few people that say lone wolf it. Others that say you need a group to survive. Once the cat is out of the bag, people know who you are and what you are up to.

    1. Jabba
      I agree it is a difficult choice, yet I seem to think you are leaning to the
      MAG side of the coin. I too would lean in that same direction. In example,
      three of you, is better that two of them. Besides, catching a small opfor
      in a cross-fire, is stacking the deck in your favor.

      1. k-bay,
        Not only that you have to sleep sometime… You have to have a small group to even have small chance of survival.

        1. Jabba
          I would submit that you are 120% correct in that. Recall our
          collective mantra, Two is one, one is none. Or in this case
          the more folks you have, the greater the division of labor.

          Two sleep, one guards, four sleep or eat for that matter
          while two guard…. you get my drift.

  42. Today I gave my son an EMP Shield for his truck. He asked, “What about the key? It has a chip in it. The truck will start and in a few seconds stop.”
    I hadn’t thought about that. Any suggestions?

    Stay frosty.

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