Will SHTF Bug-out be Fun and just like Camping?

Will 'bug-out' camping be fun?

Here’s something to think about. Camping is fun, right? Untold numbers of people take a camping vacation each year. It’s a enjoyable experience to get away from work and out of suburbia – to relax while “getting back to nature”, feeding our “cave man” calling, right?

Maybe it’s the engineer in me, but for me, much of the fun is within the process of “setting up camp”. Even when it’s done, it’s never really done. I will find myself fiddling around with this or that, improving one setup or another – always something to do when building one’s castle – even if for only a week or a weekend…

I have lots of memories of camping trips, beginning early during childhood. There’s just something about the experience that resonates. I’m sure that most of you have enjoyable recollections too.

But here’s where I’m going with this…

A recent comment on the blog re-kindled what I’ve thought about before:

I feel some (not saying on this site) think a shtf would be like camping, easy, enjoyable, etc. but you’d have to factor in once rule of law is thrown aside, bad people are going to do bad things. Even people that one may think are good, may test and try that little thing that is inside them that they’ve hidden.

~ MSB commenter, ‘ Whiskey Vision

There are two points that I would like to address. And this is relative to a hypothetical scenario that so many ‘preppers’ hypothesize about: some sort of disastrous collapse event that brings it all down while everyone ‘hunkers down’ for a long period of time.

  1. SHTF ‘bug-out’ camping at some ‘campground’ or wherever, would end up (in short order) being exceedingly difficult, challenging, and maybe even disastrous.
  2. It will become dangerous, likely beyond your expectations while at your ‘bug-out’ ‘campground’ or other location.

Most people live in urban and suburban areas. A small percentage of them are preparedness-minded ‘preppers’. Some of them have thought through what they would do if a worst-case collapse scenario were to evolve.

Some will hunker down where they are, at their own home, even though within population-dense ‘suburbia’ or urban. I’m not suggesting one way or the other if this is a good idea (there are lots of articles on this blog which noodle through this notion).

Others are planning to ‘bug-out’. To ‘get out of dodge’ where it may be ‘safer’ with a better chance of long term survival.

Some of the latter group will go to ‘Uncle Joe’s’ farm out in the boonies. But others in the latter group are planning to ‘bug-out’ to some campground, park area, or other such rural or wilderness location and ‘survive’.

Bug-out to some Campground?

I’m not suggesting that it can’t be done (camp survival for a long term duration). But I’ll bet that most will not be successful at it, after awhile.

We have romantic notions of camping. The good times. How fun it was. But let me tell you, think about trying to survive for weeks upon weeks at your camp. Can you imagine the difficulties that will creep up? The things you will have to deal with in that environment?

Water! Okay, maybe your ‘bug-out’ camping area is right near water. Good! Otherwise you will NOT make it. I’m assuming you’re geared up with filtration.

Food! Here’s where it gets mighty tricky. How much food can you possibly take with you on your ‘bug-out’? Certainly not enough to last long-term. What are you going to do when it runs out? Fish? Hunt? Do you really think you’ll be successful keeping your belly full?

Shelter! Are you in a tent? How’s that going to hold up when the weather gets bad? Cold yet? What time of year is it? Maintaining a safe body core temperature is extremely paramount to survival.

Security! This was my second point. It’s going to get dangerous. How long until real danger sets in will depend on your location and vicinity to others. I’m telling you, “if” this hypothetical collapse actually ever happens, regardless of the trigger or circumstance thereof, desperate people WILL do desperate things. How are you going to deal with that? Got enough 24/7 security?

There are so many other additional challenges that will arise while bug-out camping. Sanitation. Health. OPSEC. Insects/bugs/snakes/bears/. It will be anything but easy. Not fun after awhile. Not like vacation.

Bug-out Camping may not be a good idea

I am suggesting for those who may be considering ‘camping out’ as their SHTF ‘bug-out’ plan, you might want to reconsider. At least look into other options.

“Uncle Joe’s” farm may be a better idea, so long as he’s alright with that…

Sometimes people that we know (who know we’re ‘prepared’ despite our OPSEC) may joke about staying at our place if it all comes down (similar remarks probably have been made to some of you too, right?)… and I’m sure that most are said simply in jest. However depending on if and when and who shows up, they might be in for a surprise.

Okay, lets try to generally stick to the topic of ‘bug-out’ camping. What do you think? How long might one survive while trying that? It depends, right?

Continue reading: Bug-out in a Trailer or RV?

Camper or RV preparedness | What to bring?

When it Hits the Fan, What You Have Will Be All There Is

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33 Comments

  1. NO this would NOT be fun and for all the reason listed in the article sooner or later the sewage system would break down as would the water systems in most parks around here anyway and unless you have a four season tent which aint cheap come winter you would get a LITTLE frosty and if you have pets theres MORE food you have bring with you this would NOT be a good idea

    1. What do mean about pets and bringing them food… Didn’t you know they are the food ;)
      Best part rover can transport himself.

  2. It would not be fun, not for anyone, and i will leave it at that.
    Know your AO
    Know your neighbors
    If you think you are safe, think again, chaos has no rules

  3. Camping was fun when I was little and I didn’t mind trout every day for dinner. One reason have settled on the farm way out in the sticks is to avoid, as much as possible, any need to bug out. Can’t get much more remote.

    That being said, do tell those bugging out to the farm that they should oughta bring camping gear. Be much warmer sleeping in the barn in winter if you’re in a tent.

  4. Good topic, Ken. I believe the allure of camping, for most folks, whether they are aware of it or not, is a subconscious desire to return to a simpler life. A life of self sufficiency, a life less complicated, a life devoid of many of modern day pressures. I believe that’s why you often see posts from a few folks on prepper sites saying “bring it on!” when talking of shtf scenarios.

    When I was raising and providing for my family, working two and three jobs at a time, building our homes and burying us all in “stuff”, vacations usually involved, at least some, camping. Escape, if you will, of the life we had created. You might even call it “bugging out”.

    What I described is the “romantic” part of camping’s allure. It’s as far removed from the reality of bug-out camping after a shtf event as swimming in a pool is to being dropped into the ocean. In a pool, you can always see the safety of pool’s edge and ladder. In the ocean, you have no idea when or where you will find the security of dry land. It will be exponentially tougher if you are responsible for other folks.

    I’ve said it before, I will say it again, and I know everyone’s situation is different, but I will survive or die, where I am, with what I’ve got, right here. Of course, I live where many would try to bug-out to. Having a few supplies cached around in the woods surrounding my home makes sense. I’m not suicidal, hiding out close to home, regrouping to retake my home-place is as close to bug-out camping I will come. That’s assuming I don’t die defending against an initial take-over attempt.

  5. Answering the question NO. It will not be fun and not like camping as most of us think of it.

    Water and Sanitation: if your using a well I hope it has a hand pump as loss of electricity is often the first sigh of trouble. Even a water filter will get clogged and it takes but a few people to fail at field sanitation to make surface water supplies slowly lethal. Cholera and Dysentery anyone? A horrible slow death.

    Security: that water filter is pretty neat, MY 45 ACP is pretty neat too, GIVE that to me…. Nuff said. Gunfights are not your friend even when you have a Medevac or EMS handy.

    A “Friendly” person pulling a concealed weapon at close range makes your pretty AR not very useful. Someone wiser than I said “Stay away from crowds”. Under stress even nice folks will do evil to feed and protect their kids. Campgrounds are crowded.

    Food see security above. Share and share alike means everybody fights each other and starves alike.

    Tents… Not cover vs. weapons, not even decent concealment. Lousy weather conditioning. If SHTF right now with the nice spring weather a heavy rainstorm can wet all you have and the Laundromat is closed. Winter…burrrr…Nuff said.

    Some will point to the Indians. OK, they were an extended family. No real security or food sharing issues there. They knew field sanitation enough to not foul their water supply. And aside from warm climate tribes, lived in solidly built winter quarters as they were easier to heat. Only Hollywood had them living in teepees all the time. Teepees were for mobile hunting camps.

    Are RV’s that much better for the above problems?

  6. Bugging out when the SHTF makes you a homeless person. Trudging along through the countryside will bring some hate down on you – want proof?

    During the second world war, a very derogatory descriptor was used for the homeless, DP (displaced person). Many nations, communities, … fought to keep these people out of the area. Check your history.

    I will hunker down where I have some security, supplies, and some neighbors that can be organized for defense.

  7. You have to look no further than the Bosnian war. There was no “Mason-Dixon Line”. The fighting was house to house in many areas. Women and female children were raped by every passing armed faction. Everything you had was taken from you at gunpoint by those passing factions. And each faction claimed to be there to “help the people”. In some cases small villages were able to muster some defenses at times. Other times they fell to the preying armed faction. The resources were taken and the females were raped even down to young pre-teens. Larger urban areas actually had some protection. They didn’t have much but the armed factor that controlled those areas did provide some security. UN food drops were random, but they did occur. Otherwise, the underground barter system is how most people made it. The lessons learned from the Serbian War are shocking and difficult for most people to believe. If you ever get the chance to sit and talk with someone who lived through that war, well, you should. Most of them have a hell of a story to tell. Don’t be surprised if you find the survivors of that war to be callused and cold. They had to be to get through it. It’s hard to watch your neighbors raped and beaten to death over a few cans of tuna fish and a candle. The killing fields of Bosnia and the concentration camps are the stuff of nightmares.

    There are a few books and UN field reports out there that detail what happened to the people of Bosnia and Herzegovina. You should read them as I did. I see people say all the time that “we should just get it over with”. Nothing could further from the truth. Bosnia has never fully recovered. Her people are still broken. The Bosnian War should be taught to our children in schools around the world as to what happens when people can’t get along.

    1. BG
      Is there a defense against the horrors of human nature when the rule of law is disrupted – camping for a few in VERY remote areas may work as long as the weather cooperates.

    2. Camping in remote areas sound nice. Currently in Laconia NH is bike week. They roam every scenic road and most of the unpaved ones also in Eastern VT all of NH, Maine and Northern MA.

      If you can drive your bug out vehicle there someone else can also. And they might not be kind souls.

      Between ATV’s, Off road motorcycles, GOOGLE Maps, and hikers is there anywhere far enough out to be “Remote”??

      Get someone you trust to be your bug out location. Invest some time and money in that bug out location. Camping in the boonies is not a good idea.

  8. I once talked quite a bit of “Lights-Out” weekends or for a week.
    Wondering how many of y-all actually tried that? For a month or longer, how long will you need to “Bug-Out” for?
    And yes there are some of the Rambo types that can build a Shopping Mall with a Q-tip and a Knife (remember the movie?), but I would not count on them helping you, the wife, 3 kids, and Grandpa.

    “Will SHTF Bug-out be Fun and just like Camping?”

    Easy to find out without TSHTF, do it for a week, with NO outside help.
    One might even fill that F3500 to the gills, but how long will that last? Remember ya cant take that Garden and Chicken Coop with you.

    Is 600 rolls really enough? and how are you going to carry that to the Camp Ground?

    Bugging Out, no way UNLESS you have a BOL confirmed, aka Uncle Joe’s Farm.

    PS thinking I need to rethink the “Going to Kens” HAHAHAHA

  9. Camping is fun when you know it will be over soon. Bugging out in a tent would be my absolute last option. I don’t feel safe in a tent now… can’t imagine what it would be like with a bunch of angry, hungry, frightened and (1 in 10) psychopaths running around. Admiring my water filter, “can I borrow that when your done?”, nope, that person now hates you and will take your water filter if they get a chance.

    But, NRP if you make it to N. Carolina you know you’re welcome!
    luv ya’ll, Beach’n

  10. I like camping but I don’t like campgrounds, actually I don’t like the other campers. Some are new at it, some are “whoopers”, young drunks that go “whoop” at the top of their lungs all night. And some have to bring their dogs that bark non-stop while the campers have left. A lot of the bathrooms are disgusting, pit toilets are stinky, hot, and infested with flies. You can’t hardly walk down the road without a close call with a little kid on a pink bicycle. The water in many campgrounds is not safe, and is so posted. Previous campers will leave campfire rings filled with broken glass, trash, beer cans. Most rings are not installed properly and do not have adequate air supply and are two feet deep. Picnic tables are usually rotten, way oversized, on muddy ground and near impossible to move. Most of the terrain in most campsites is gravel and not level enough to set up a camper without considerable leveling. If you have to park under pine trees you will never get the pitch off. We just came back from a camping trip last weekend and we are both just recovering from patches of gnat sores. Since the campground was on the Mississippi river trains rolled all night long.
    But I do like the camping part of camping, McGyvering and tinkering, exploring. Just leave us alone.
    As a bug out option, probably not.

  11. I love camping!
    But to do it as a bug out option? No way.
    I like the security of walls
    One thing to consider, also, is that ‘camp’ fire used for boiling water, food, warmth.
    There will be other desperates out there and your continuous fire will be a homing beacon for them.

    Ken, thanks for the hint. We will find a different rendezvous point, just to be safe. Doesn’t mean NRP won’t kid you about it.

  12. I will try to stay put for as long as we safely can. One of several options, if we had to bug out would be to secure our dwelling in the rock shelters that are relatively close to our house. I know the Native peoples used them during difficult periods of bad weather as I have dug and sifted points and other artifacts from inside them over the years. Some of the openings are such that a single deer hide could seal out the weather. This would certainly be an advantage over fumbling around with tents and gear all the while leaving a huge footprint and certain vulnerable exposure. Bugging out in a tent, RV or any campground would not even be an option.

  13. I would also avoid state parks, forests etc… Any where the general public visits on a regular basis. Most woodsy hippie dippies & weekend warriors will have some knowledge of these areas. Better to find a local that is uninviting to most folks. Scout for dry land in a large swamp to make camp (watch for flooding) this would be a good hide. Large orchards filled with trees (no fruit on trees out of harvest season). Gulches, Ravines, swells surrounded by hills well off of logging trails. You better scout your areas well before hand and if possible build caches.

    BG camping would be a last resort for sure. You wanna see how tough it can get, just wait until the wife calls out early morning do we have any more toilet paper? and you reply “sorry babe none left”…

  14. The thing people love about vacations (whether camping, a cruise, or whatever) is that they don’t have the same responsibilities as at home. Not only do you not have to work (paid work, at least), but you also don’t have to worry about what to eat (since you’ve planned it in advance), doing chores around the house, etc. The lack of stress is what makes it a vacation–not going back to the “simple life.”

    Even if you had the most perfect bug-out camping situation there is (no one else around, plenty of water, animals to hunt, etc.), there would be STRESS! There would be tons of jobs to do to keep yourself and your family safe (from predators, injury, disease, weather, etc.). The lack of stress is what makes a vacation. This would not be it.

  15. Camping is fun when you have all the supplies you need. To survive a long term SHTF situation you would have to become a homesteader in a hurry. A tent is not going to hold up for long. You would have to build a shelter with the means to heat it. Try cutting enough logs to build a shelter or constructing a fire place with your camping gear. Who has garden tools and seed in their bug out bag? How will you preserve food to eat in the winter. If you are hunting for all of your meat how many pounds of ammo will you need? How will you get meds if you have any medical problems? Are there any essential oils for diabetics? As others have said, what about security? Who will pull guard duty all night? To answer the question, no bugging out will be nothing like camping.

  16. Bugging out to a campsite when SHTF is not on our agenda. State/federal park campsites would be a nightmare in my opinion. If it occurs in the middle of winter with 2 feet of snow and 20 degrees , no way. When people get hungry and cold they will turn into thieving treacherous animals. I want nothing to do with them.
    Our ages also make bugging out ,out of the question .

    1. Camping is fun while there is peace and prosperity. If the bottom falls out, and desperate people are willing to take the necessary risk in order to acquire your things, camping transitions to survival, along with the accompanying modus operandi.

  17. Once, when camping out in Iowa, the campground lost its electricity for about 4 hours (at night).

    The water went down.
    The bath houses were immediately locked down also.
    It was dark out there !

    My cousin had to have a bowel movement. Luckily I had some baby wipes. She was so grossed out by the experience. She and I have had many, many conversations about how things will go when it HsTF. This was her wake up call. Now she always brings her own wipes and water whenever we go camping together.

  18. Of the years that I have lived off grid, I can say with some authority that it would not be fun at all.

    The most sad thing about large numbers of people living off grid are how quickly the resources would be depleted. First would be the dead and down wood, then the fish in the streams and lakes. Lastly, the game animals would be gone.

    All of the above scenario is dependent on: fresh water and lots of it. When the water goes, everything else follows. The region of the Sierra Nevada mountains I worked in was trashed every year by people. I worked there for 4-5 months of the year. the remaining 7-8 months of the year the snows came and the melt combined to keep people away. The land had a chance to replenish itself.

    I consider myself lucky and fortunate enough to live, work and traveling that area for about 5 years. If you want an area to stay pristine, block off the roads and keep the place a secret.

    SHTF situation means that the natural areas would be over run by hoards of people in short order. I hope this never happens because it means the survivors would be killing each other over the smallest things, living in caves trapping and eating rats.

    I am old and experienced enough to not be cocky about being a survivor as there is always the element of luck involved.

  19. I totally understand and agree with many of the above comments. I do have a few other thoughts…

    If there’s a SHTF situation and people in urban/suburban areas feel the need to GOOD, “going camping” might be more fun than facing the reality of the city WROL. Besides, when you make the decision to bug out, it will be early enough that you might not know if it is truly a long-term or short-term emergency.

    It might help prevent a mind from panicking if it’s framed as “Things are getting crazy here. Let’s get out of the city for a bit and go camping at our favorite spot. It’ll be fun.”

    I live in a place surrounded by mountain passes with plenty of campgrounds. My tiny town has a surprising number of resources to deal with a long-term emergency. It would be a stretch to defend it. A sharing of resources with those who are camping in exchange for defending the passes seems like a win-win to me.

  20. My wife & I just got back from the Great Smokey Mountains. We spent time hiking and fly fishing. While we rented a cabin (my wife calls that camping), we brought everything with us to handle food, hygiene, gear, and protection for a week (and that filled up my SUV). The hiking was good but, ticks were everywhere. Our poor little puppy got tired of us sweeping her for ticks. The fishing was good until rainstorms caused high river flows making wading unsafe. After returning back to the cabin for a libation, I was surprised by the lack of wildlife. We did see one rabbit and one squirrel during our one week stay. When we went into the national park, we saw about a dozen turkeys but no elk (which is normally a frequent resident in the park near Cherokee) and no other suitable game. I’ve eaten possum & raccoon, but we did see any of those either.

    To stay on topic, I had three takeaways after pondering this topic:
    1) it would be very difficult to carry enough camping gear for long term comfort (even with a working vehicle). Surviving the seasons would be difficult and potentially life threatening. Have you ever packed in cook pots, utensils, camping gear, food, & water?
    2) food & water: Assuming there is plenty of running water (e.g. streams & rivers) and you have the means to purify water, if not your “camping trip” will be a short duration. Your next biggest obstacle will be food. When your camp food runs out, you are left with foraging & hunting. If, 10% of the population within 100 miles has the same idea as you, you could be looking at thousands of people trying to compete for diminishing resources. I’ve tried to forage for wild edibles and it is not easy to keep your stomach full.
    3) hygiene & illness: Hygiene products will only last you a few months. And, you can only carry so much toilet paper. Hand sanitizer, soap , & wet wipes will be a necessary evil that will only last some a few months at best.
    Even if you had a small stockpile of medications for family members, eventually (say in 1-3 months) you are going to run out. Without antibiotics, a simple cut or injury could become life threatening. Some medications need refrigeration (e.g., insulin). Without it, camping will be short lived.
    Lagniappe: Security will be a top priority since the entitled sheeple will expect you to share your preps and other goodies. I not suggesting that you start blasting away anytime someone approaches you. Whether you share or not is a personal decision that each of us would have to make. There is however, strength in numbers. I don’t believe that any of us could personally handle 24-hr security by ourselves. We have to sleep sometime. In this case, a community of like-minded people would be an advantage and might be necessary.

    So for me, camping would not be fun.

    1. Praetorian;
      Great responce and comment, thank you.
      As one that lives just south of the Rockies. I must tell you, you picked a bad time to camp there, Snow Pack is 200 to 300 % above normal, now maybe not where u where, but here, nada is moving north, hence no wildlife.

      I agree with your takeaways, seriously if you dont know the area, habitat, migration, so-on and try Camping out TSHTF well let’s just say “best of luck”.
      Hence the overwhelming thoughts of those OLD FARTS here…. Don’t expect to make it after TSHTF by camping in my back yard….

      1. NRP,

        The scenic state highway (paved two lane, no shoulders) that winds through my neck of the woods would lead one to believe there are few residents and miles and miles of unoccupied wilderness. The population is sparse and scattered, but not nearly as sparse as it appears. Every little narrow, two wheel trail, leading off the pavement into the woods…….well, someone or several someones lives down that trail, and they’re very protective of their privacy. I’m guessing that some folks driving through, enjoying the scenery, have toyed with the idea that this would be a good area to bug out to. I’m guessing that would be a big mistake. For every home you can see from the highway, there is probably five or more you can’t see. The maintained, but unpaved county roads like the one that goes by my property is much the same. But, desperate people will do desperate things. Let’s hope that our mind games never have to be tested for real.

  21. Better to think of wilderness camping as practice. See what it means to live for a week with what you can carry on your back. That’s what life would be like after SHTF.

  22. We call the tourist area around here “urban camping”. Those are the folks who will be bugging out to the campgrounds – urban campers who are used to running water, electricity, and a place to go to the bathroom that is not dug down into the ground. There is no way a prepper would like to go and live with folks who have not prepped enough so that this is their option. There will be too many people, and what would happen a week, a month in when resources are gone? It will be survival of the most evil.

    Camping as a bug out, should it happen, would be camping where no one else will be, where no one else will think to camp. Then survival may be possible. But those places are far out in the wilderness or backcountry, and I would not attempt that unless it was the last resort.

  23. I have tent camped my whole life and in almost every camp out I was ready to go home and get back to normal life.

    Camping fun, forced long-term camping / survival probably not so much fun.

    I did buy a 34-foot motorhome, I converted to run of-grid so it would be more fun then tent camping. But it comes with it’s own set of problems.

  24. A shout out for good ideas is what NRP refers to as his : “lights out weekend”. where he goes out with his bug out pack and lives out of that sucker for 48 or 72 hrs.

    I did much the same when I lived off grid for years. The nature of my job entailed me keeping a 72 hr pack ready to go at all times whether it be for a rescue or a fire. My employer knew they could drop me and my pack into an area and not worry about me for 72 hrs before resupply was a consideration. If I travelled with a team, we all had 72 hr packs with similar stuff contained within.

    One hint for most of us that are older: These days, I would have my bug-out vehicle and I would pack lined paper along with pen or pencil to keep a journal every day you are on your adventure.

    Topics for the journal that really came in handy in later days and years: I would start the journal talking about my location, altitude and the weather. I would then take notes on what equipment I used that day and how it worked. I tried to keep notes on everything to include: medications used and how they worked. food to carry and what I would bring next time. ( hint: if you are living off of govt C-rations or the newer MRE’s, pack along a small box of raisins each Day to aid digestion and relieve constipation.)

    When in the backcountry eating freeze-dried or canned rations for more than 4 days, many people crave different things like: fried eggs, a thick juicy medium steak, glass of milk or serving of ice cream. Myself, I craved fresh produce in the form of a salad or fresh vegetables in just about any form.

    During my time in the Sierras, I still carried some extra stove fuel as a back-up to a water filter that may get clogged with sediment, I dumped the govt. issue Forester headlamp for the new light LED headlamps that are less than 1/4 the weight and the batteries last much longer.

    Whatever knife I carried, one of the knives that got the most use was a Swiss Army knife which was used to lift caps off bottles and open cans in addition to reaching peanut butter at the bottom of a big jar. ( Swiss army knife was used every single day on every single trip. During those off-grid years, I bought myself a new one once per year and gave my old one to one of my brothers.)

    Method of transport: During my time of govt service, I walked in at times, many times I was trucked in and other times I was dropped in by helicopter. ( this is why I am not a driver of 4×4 vehicles like Dennis. Somebody else drove me to where I had to work.) What ever method I got there, most of the time I had to walk out so…I spent a lot of time talking about boots and socks within my journals.

    The 72hr lights out weekend could be referred to as a: “shakedown cruise” with unflinching notes on what worked and what did not work. Do this every 3 months covering a variety of seasons and you will find out much about yourself and your equipment.

  25. I have a one-bedroom condo on wheels also known as a travel trailer. It is set up for “bugging out” by accident.

    It is more of a side effect of boondocking.

    Outside of food and boomsticks there is always enough stuff in it to last 3 months reasonably comfortably assuming you don’t need heat past what is used for cooking… or air conditioning. And worst case you can dig a hole to get water to filter. Washing clothes in the winter would suck.

    I have it pretty well set up. But after a week I’m tired of it. I always come back with a list to fine tune on it. I can’t imagine how irritating it would be to know I’m trapped in it indefinitely with no hope for improvement.

  26. We just got back from a short vacation. We sat in 2 different campgrounds. The first had rain and up to 50 mph winds and at the second it rained,snowed, hailed and rained again. It was never above 35 at night. We were boondocking in a 26 ft motorhome. It is not fun! If the Shtf I am staying home where there are much less people then there are in a campground!

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