SURVIVAL SKILLS

Direction Without GPS – How To Instinctively Know

direction without gps

In our modern world nearly everyone has GPS in their smart phones and GPS navigation systems in their vehicles. It can be really useful technology.

But how would you know your direction without GPS? Would you be lost without a clue?

When I was young there was no GPS (Global Positioning System) for public consumers. I had no choice but to learn how to navigate in other ways.

I can remember those years ago when my dad would teach me about having a “sense of direction” and understanding / visualizing maps for navigation.

A Sense of Direction Without GPS

Today more than ever, few people seem to have a natural sense of direction. If you took their GPS enabled phone away or didn’t let them look at the GPS in their vehicle, they would have little idea of north, south, east, or west.

Having a sense of direction is a very important fundamental attribute for navigation without GPS. So how do you know which way your facing or where you’re going?

It’s a learned technique which may involve a number of observations.

1. The Sun
2. The lay of the land
3. Familiarization with a map

Use the sun to know your direction without GPS

You do know that the sun rises in the east and sets in the west, right?

While the sun may not rise exactly in the east (dependent upon season and your location), it’s close enough to give you a fairly good idea of your orientation.

The earlier in the morning the easier to know where east is, because the sun is lower to the horizon.

The hours around 12 noon are a bit more difficult during the summer months because the sun is nearly directly overhead. However during the winter the sun is closer to the horizon so you know that it’s somewhere midway between east and west (south!).

Later in the day it becomes fairly easy again because the sun is lowering towards the horizon in the west.

Even during partially cloudy days you will likely be able to identify where the sun is located in the sky and use this technique.

The more you practice this, the more it will become instinctive. After a while you won’t even have to think much about it. You will just know what direction you’re going so long as you can see the sun.

Direction without GPS: the ‘lay of the land’

What I mean by this is to simply know or have an idea of the geography of the area you’re in.

I would suspect that even in the location where people live, many are not able to visualize the lay of the land in their own region.

Getting a sense for the lay of the land is multifaceted. It includes visualizing the roads network and 3D topography of the land itself.

The best way to begin to understand the lay of the land is to simply look at a map. Again, most people don’t use maps anymore. And a GPS unit is not adequate to fully understand the topography from a wide and effective overview vantage point. Detail is lost as you zoom out.

Direction without GPS: Maps

I suggest two things. A road map and a topographical map.

Many road atlas maps are drawn onto a topographical map (some better than others) giving you a sense of where hills, valleys, and mountains are located.

Road Atlas Map for each state

For even finer detail you might acquire US Geological Survey topo maps. However for the sake of general sense of direction and lay of the land, any map with roads and 3D features will be good.

It will take some study of these maps as you correlate roads and map features with what you’re actually observing in the real world. For example as you look ‘over there’ and see that mountain range, look at the map and identify where it is. Also identify what direction it is from your location.

After awhile you will imprint in your brain a general idea of the ‘lay of the land’ which will help your sense of direction without GPS.

I certainly recommend that you become very familiar with your own region of where you live. You should get to the point where you can visualize a road map and topographical features in your head for the area where you live.

Now couple this ability with knowing your direction based on the sun, and you will have a pretty good idea of where you are or where you’re going.

Nowadays people don’t even have to think – they just use GPS. Unfortunately this eliminates the requirement to “remember” or imprint a map in your brain. It eliminates the advantage to knowing the lay of the land. And it doesn’t require that you have a sense of direction.

Don’t let a GPS dumb you down. It’s good preparedness to know your direction without GPS!

Lensatic Compass, Phosphorescent

Related article:
How To Use A Watch As A Compass
Basic Map Reading (Latitude – Longitude)

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Easy for me! Not too easy to get lost in my AO, its either up or down, mountain up, ocean down!

Ken,
good article. We need to encourage people to use their God-given senses to function, and get away from all these electronic devices.

When I was I kid, I had a great Scoutmaster who always taught us to ‘find north’ the minute we stepped out of a vehicle to do a hike. 2nd step was to locate the ‘major landmarks’ in relationship to the vehicle and north. He would also stop us every 1/2 mile or so along a trail and take a poll among the group, ‘where is the vehicle?’, ‘Where is north?’. By this method he trained us all to constantly mentally mark our position. Occasionally he would deliberately get us off the trail and ‘turned around’, then quiz us. that was a great training experience. I want to thank my old Scoutmaster right now for doing this, it was a great gift.

I think that anyone, of any age, or sex, can develop this ‘sense of direction’. I have seen this working in the mines underground. No sun, no landmarks to speak of, constant turning of direction, yet somehow miners develop a sense of direction that is uncanny. so it can be done by anyone. (IMHO, the fairer sex (as a group) has a slightly harder time developing a sense of direction. Just an observation from years of working in industry with both sexes. So guys be patient, we may have to help our better halves by training them as Ken has outlined.)

GPS units are a great tool for way-finding and finding property ownership, but use them as a tool not a crutch. (The same goes for a lot of technological things, including my pet peeve AutoCAD. Great tool, but learn to draw with a pencil well first).

That’s interesting, because in my experience it’s just the opposite (just an observation from years of watching the…uh…hairier sex try to get ANYWHERE in a car.).

they have to be good (the hairier sex) as they won’t stop and ask for directions!

Lauren

I have NEVER been lost while driving, I just take the “Scenic” routes. :-)

Ladies,
My comment was ‘in general’, hope it did not offend. certainly there are women that are better at finding their way than a lot of men. I just think that women and men process things different ( thank God!). Perhaps I should have just said, “be patent with your spouse while they are learning”. For the record, I once used a GPS to go to a company Christmas party in a new town. round and round it took us but never got there, all the while I was screaming at the ‘somewhat feminine voice’ while my DW was in stitches in the passenger seat. She finally turned it off, looked at the map, and had me drive another 3 blocks, and there we were. Duh!

Minerjim

I doubt if the Ladies were offended BUT this “hairier sex” old fart is quite shocked at the idea that one could ever be lost just slightly misguided a bit….. ahhhhh now where are my keys?

Not only that, I know exactly where I am, “right where I wanted to be” HAHAHAHA

Thank GOD Blue has a good sense of direction…. :-)

I just like the term hairier sex!

From one fellow Draftsman to another well said. I was a Structural Detailer for 25 years in a previous era in my life.
Take Care and Merry Christmas.

Doc Jackson,
Back when I was becoming a mining engineer we had to take two years of drafting and 3d geometry, about 6 hours a week, and we had to hand ink all our mine maps too boot! It’s a great feeling when you can give a hand – drawn detail to a machinist or a fabricator and they say,” I don’t need a formal autocracy drawing, I can do it from this.” The kid engineers look at you like you are a minor deity. Keep a sharp pencil and enjoy your holidays too Good Sir.

Ufendid? Nope. Not this week.

As far as processing things differently, I used to teach dancing a lot. I used entirely different techniques for men and women. When teaching men I used long-short-short-long (spacial). When teaching women I mostly counted the steps. Men and women do think differently.

Look up “find north with analog watch”. Tells you how to find “true” north with a wristwatch. It must have hands, no digitals.

As Nailbanger mentioned mountains; I once lived in the Green Mountain State. Mountains ran north and south; find the sun and head out of the mountains to hit a trail or road. Always had the Gazetteer on me which would show topo and all trails. Prior to being in the pucker brush I would study up the area with the map; always carried two compasses. Have gotten turned around a few times, different feeling for sure.

Growing up on the west coast, I always used the ocean and visible mountain ranges to help me determine N,S,E,W. When traveling on the east coast, I always felt the water was in the wrong place, and occasionally got my directions 180 degrees out of sync. It was especially bad when I landed after dark for a business trip, and once I had things reversed, it was almost impossible to change in my head.
Now, without either an ocean or tall mountains to use, I’ve begun training myself to use the position of the sun to determine direction and time of day. Have to work some more on direction finding after dark, but it’s a start. I do well on main highways, but rural roads around here don’t follow any sort of grid pattern.
I’ve always considered north as “up” and south as “down” because of map orientation. However, folks around here talk about going “up” to the large city to the south, and “down” to the smaller one that is north. That’s crazy-making!

I use trees. Find a tree in an open area. Branches on the north side are not as thick and grow more vertically.
Branches on the south side are more horizontal and with thicker growth. Try it. Just walk around a suitable tree to see what I’m talking about.

My Father always taught me to look for the Moss growing on the older trees…. That was good till I hit Potland area, the friggen moss up there grows all the way around the trees UGHHHHH LOLOL

If you really want to get messed up, if from the Northern Hemisphere go to Brazil…. The dang Sun comes up from the West.. ???

I wonder if they make magnetized Ferro Rods?

What??? You must be joking NRP. To have the Sun rise in the west, you’d have to make the Earth turn in the opposite direction. If that happens, then we’re likely in for a lot of trouble, because the Earth is so enormously massive.

Doc Jackson,
I think Ol NRP must be thinking of the Coriolis effect, you know….which way the the hootch turns as it flows out of the bottle, that reverses south of the equator. He was probably filling up his supply of “natural solvent” again, heh heh!

I must admit I have that problem so I use a compass sometimes. I hate it when someone (mostly the hairier sex) says turn to your north or s,e or w. Just tell me right or left, especially when the turn is coming up! The traffic behind you isn’t real happy when you stop and get out trying to figure out direction,
My husband called himself a master tracker when he followed a walmart truck to walmart in a strange town,

old lady

I’m thinking your DH and I would get along GREAT!

probably, you both must be hairy

Thanks for the article Ken. I hate, absolutely hate GPS. Would rather have a paper map.
DH loves the GPS in his truck so much so, that he ditched the maps. Well it bit him in the azz yesterday.

We went to find a store in a different city. He programmed the address into his GPS and off we went. That darn program took us up, down, around and over every backroad and cow path there was. I normally have a feel for what direction I’m travelling in but not yesterday.

We finally found the store, dropped some hefty dollars and left. Then he tried reprogramming the GPS and he couldn’t get a decent route home. So he winged it. All the way home I could hear the GPS saying “recalculating”. Told him to put the map back into the truck or else!

I need to learn to use a compass.

kk

kk
Would love to learn how to use a compass but compasses and I have a major problem. Every time dh would ask me to get his out of the catch all draw by the time it received it…it would no longer work. Be it a cheap compass to a fairly expensive unit. Finally found one with a rubberized case that I can handle without killing the magnetics in the compass. Still try not to touch it unless it absolutely necessary. 😊

drawer by the time he receive it…

I can navigate the backwoods with the best of them. Finding North? No problem. I’ve never felt helpless in the back country.

Getting separated from the wife in a Super Wal-Mart, now that’s scary.

Very funny :) My wife is at ease in the big cities where I’m a lost basket case. In the woods it is a different story.

I can’t tell you how many times I’ve gotten phone calls saying “I can see your horses, but not your house.” That’s mainly because I don’t have horses, and their GPS took them to a pasture a mile from my house.

– Every once in a while, I get a kick out of “non-locals” whom I have told how to get to my house for one thing or another. (Sometimes Locals, often millennials) After being told how to get to my house, about 30 – 45 minutes later, I get a plaintive call on the phone. “You tried to use your GPS, didn’t you?” “Now just turn it off, turn around, go east eight miles and follow the instructions I gave you earlier. See you in about 20 minutes.” If they (.gov) ever fix the local GPS, I think I will cry.
– Papa S.

I’ve been teaching the skill of determining direction from the sun to my daughter since she was old enough to talk. Now at 8 she has a better since if direction than most adults.

In Montana, it is so easy to navigate because of the predictable mountain ranges, valleys and draws. I have taken people on long journeys cross country and they became totally lost much to my amusement. Later on I visited my wife’s relations in western Pennsylvania and went on a hike with them. The day was very cloudy and I suddenly realized this experienced woodsman, eagle scout had zero sense of direction. Very flat, with no sun, lots of trees, foreign vegetation and no recognizable land marks . I did memorize the features of the land and could have found my way back but damn those flat areas back east are tough to navigate in without a compass if the right conditions occur. New and different terrain can be a bitch.

Re: East flat areas. Wolfgar, where I live now the terrain is more rolling, problem is it rolls in different directions with no consistent direction. To make it more fun, very dense forest undergrowth; a 75 yard view is a long view, old logging trails were made following the path of least resistance, old stone walls that go nowhere (glaciers dropped a lot of big stones). Everything you have traversed looks different going the opposite direction, many thanks for broken trees, funny looking stumps, etc… I carry rolls of orange surveyors tape, tie a limb within sight distant of the previous mark (remove them all when leaving). Only thing worse is a swamp with cranberry bogs.

My habit of paying attention from where I had just came from saved me. Telling north from south, east and west with no sun, or recognizable land marks was a new experience for me. My father who grew up in Wisconsin warned me on how easy it was to get turned around in flat, heavily dense forested areas on a sunless day. He wasn’t kidding. I have carried rolls of tape to mark a quick access rout for downed game but I had never thought I would need it to find my way back. I’ll take your advice very seriously on swamps too LOL.

Don’t see read the stars on your list Ken.

So people have an innate sense in finding direction. Others are hopeless.
Some people just can’t be taught – without a compass.
Some are born without a sense of situational awareness.

I worked in tropical countries and was often off in the jungle. I have a reasonable sense of direction but some people who would go with me would panic when they lost sight of the road only 50 meters away.

There were a couple of guys I knew who did surveying for tree loggers and the oil industry.
These guys would go off into raw tropical virgin rainforest with a backpack of food enough to go in and get them back. Never took a compass.

Anecdote. Near 40 years ago a helicopter (Puma) crashed into the Kalimantan (Borneo) virgin rain forest.
12 passengers plus the pilot and co pilot. The co pilot and 7 passengers were killed on impact.
The pilot was French and ex special services and tough as nails. He walked out – took him 12 days. The rest perished. Asked what had happened, he said there was a dispute in which direction the survivors were heading – 3 went off by themselves – 2 came with him.
He ended up the only survivor. Asked what happened to the other two that came with him. Old proverb. “The man inside couldn’t keep the man outside going”
He had absolutely no doubt that he himself would survive.

Dh & I took a fall vacation to the east coast staying outside of Williamsburg VA. Finding the resort was no problem easy access although it was during daylight hours. The street signs were hard to find and were not very large compared to what we were use to, still no problem. We checked in, unloaded the luggage for the weeks stay at the Powhatan. Went to the closest junk food vender(ah taco bell), there an back yahhh…no problem.
Day trips were easy, we were back before dark set in so seeing where we were was easy and beautiful. Until the day we went out to Jamestown, and spent way to much time there. Yes, it was turning dusk…..no problem……we have the map the resort gave us. Stopped at Walmart to pick up food for dinner for the next few days, came out…it was raining. OK, they should have street signs like our area RIGHT??!! (NO)
In no time we were lost using the map provided by the resort, finally found a gas station the guy told dh to toss the map and he told us how to get back to the resort. The street we needed was the street behind the station. We knew we were close because our build in gps, after that we decided all trips would be in daylight hours from then on……NO we did not own a GPS.

DH in the military was known as one meter, and he could figure out where he was but this even threw his gps off.
He once said that Atlanta GA, was an internal gps killer since the streets on their major through fares begin with the word PEACH. You had better know which PEACH street-ave-blvd you were looking for……lol

People in Australia wander off into the bush and get lost all the time. Emergency services get sent out to find them, sometimes in time, and sometimes not. Now as a rule towns and villages are situated on water courses, pre power and pumping you need a supply of water to settle. So the smartest thing to do is start heading downhill until you find a water course, even a dry water course will eventually have water in it, keep following any water course until you find a town or a city. You can survive without food for some time, but you don’t have long without water, and if you are following a water course at least you may find something to drink. Blaze a clear trail by marking trees or rocks in a line of sight so you can be easily followed and it will increase your chance of survival.

Now it’s a rule, and every rule has an exception, so don’t go doing it in flat country, or where you are near a desert, but in anything with hills and mountains it’s the best way to live, you make your own luck.

It is assumed by many that some peoples have a natural sense of direction, but they in fact had elaborate techniques for trailblazing… bent twigs, rock placement, aligning objects.

A quick quiz;
1. What is the difference between True-North and Magnetic-North?
2. Is the “North Arrow” on maps pointing to Magnetic-North or True-North?
3. Is there a difference in the two from the East Coast and the West Coast of the US, the World??
4. Why am I asking this at 2:00 AM ???? LOLOL

NRP,
Up burning the midnight oil again? here are the answers, though I think you were asking to get people thinking.
1) difference can be several degrees. need to look at the topo map for the area to see what it is at that location.
2) Top of the Map, straight up, is True North, by convention. magnetic north is shown so you can align your compass correctly with the right ‘declination’ between true and magnetic north.
3) there are magnetic declination maps on the NOAA website showing the declination for the area you are in. Changes all over the globe….and… it changes over time too. So if you are reading an old map or claim survey from the 1800s, you will have to make corrections for changes in magnetic north.
4) Maybe you were up checking your TP supply and these questions just popped into your head? I think your should check your ‘organic solvent’ supply earlier in the evening, maybe that will help.

A “how-to” on “instinct”.
Seems counter intuitive on the outset.

Hi vocalpatriot,
It might seem so on it’s face. But, to me part of instinct is it’s refinement, including allowing your instincts to guide you when appropriate and learning to listen to and trust your instinctive reasoning and responses rather than ignoring or suppressing them.
For instance, your fight-or-flight instinct may tell you to respond a certain way in a crisis while your logic and reasoning may be struggling to accept the reality of a situation and attempting to find a similar experience to use as a reference to process the situation. That’s one reason why people freeze-up sometimes. Their instincts are being overridden by a thought process and it creates indecision when action may be critical. Just my 2 cents.

Vocalpatriot,
Part of the ‘how to’ is realizing that there is an instinct there to explore and develop. People have many hidden talents that they never discover because they never look.

You hit the nail on the head about Atlanta. Grew up in California and for eighteen years never lost. Lived in Colorado never lost, city or back country. Raised my kids north of Seattle and worked half the year in Alaska and still never lost. Moved to the greater Atlanta area to retire and now lost all the time in the city. I counted eight name changes on one road in twenty miles,(why)? Now live over 100 miles out of Atlanta in the mountains and once again never lost. I was told by a native that I could get a street, road or bunny path named after me if I wanted to. He said it’s all on how much $$$$$ you donate to governor, state house members, congress or senate member. No capital letters is just my way of showing how I feel about these groups.

Forests, especially mountainous forests are tough for me. You can see quite a distance from the ridges / peaks, but climb down into draineges / valleys and it is very easy to get directions twisted because everything looks the same, especially in twilight hours. So you climb back up and wonder “Now where in Sam Hill was I standing before ?”

To NRP:

True North is in a different location than magnetic north because Magnetic North is the Laurentian Shield which is the world”s largest deposit of iron ore making it a geologic anomaly that allows compasses to work..

When I was working in Civil Engineering Dept of the Los Padres National Forest, the declination in Santa Barbara, CA was 14 degrees. ( declination being the difference between True North and Magnetic North. In order to determine declination in your area, obtain a local map published by the US Geological Survey dept of US.Gov. Declination for the map will be indicated within the lower corner margins.

Mapping was my entry level job in Natural Resources years ago. It also led to my eventual jobs as a line scout on the wild land firefighting crew. I prefer the Suunto brand compass over the military compass or the silva brand. More features for less money. Mine has a feature in which I can adjust the reading to take into account declination depending on where I am/where I am being dropped off by air.

Best practice for land navigation: Practice at night in the fog with a compass. I used to practice in sand dunes as a youngster in the Boy Scouts. ( Girl Scouts can do this as well.). Many thanks to the scoutmasters out there.

All this was done in the years before GPS was available.

To Dennis:

At my local Super Walmart: Bathrooms and cash registers are in front. Sporting goods? : I scan the horizon for the tops of fishing rods. Women’s section? : follow the scent of perfume. Food court: follow the scent of McDonalds ( butt don’t eat there for health sake.) My wife? : she is outside waiting in the truck waiting to go eat someplace nice and spendy. She sends me into Walmart to pick stuff up.

CaliRefugee,

Got ya’. I can navigate inside a WallyWorld store, my kids say I can track a spider across solid rock, what I can’t do is find a wife on the move in a big box store. After a period of fruitless searching, I usually check the parking lot, then return to the old folk’s bench at the exit and wait to be found by her. She’s in her element, me……..not so much.

FYI to all you map readers.
The declination on the map may be old. True north drifts. A few websites can give you the current data.

Would someone please explain to me how that, if we are spinning round and round, Polaris can possibly stay in the same place for centuries? It’s been a navigational aid forever. Good idea to practice pace counting as well. It seems like Ken did an article on that. May come in handy to learn how to make a compass with a magnetized needle that you can easily keep with you.

Ty!

– Some years ago, when I was in the Army, we had occasion to take a group to the National Training Center (NTC) at Ft. Irwin, just above Twenty-Nine Palms. As part of my job, we were getting maps ready for the various leadership positions/officers, so I had reason and occasion to handle them a good bit.
Fast-forward a couple of months; we were at NTC and I had been riding inside a closed truck for several hours (asleep). We stopped, I got out with everybody else to stretch my legs and drain radiators at about 2 a.m. My boss called me over and asked me if I knew where I was. I stepped over to the hood of the truck and oriented the map by turning it 180° after looking at the night sky. And I put my finger on it. I said, ”Right about here.” I was about 1 klick off. I didn’t tell him, when he asked me I how I did that, but I will tell this forum. NTC is basically flat, with a central valley running east and west. There are three towns around it, putting light stains on the night sky, one to the north and centrally located. The other two are located to either side on the east and west; and one is on the north side of that valley, the other is on the south. By figuring out which way was north, and looking at the glow of city lights against the sides of my horizon where we were parked in that valley, I was able to make a pretty good guess as to where we were located on that map despite never having been to NTC before, and absolutely bumfuzzle my Colonel. That’s just one trick, and I am not a one-trick pony.
– Papa S.

– There is a military manual that covers that particular skill, and it is available on the ‘net. Look for ‘Terrain Analysis’.
– Papa

– P.S. get a ‘button’ compass that will mount to your watchband. That and a diver’s or aviators style watch will give you a basic wilderness dashboard, allowing you to keep track of when and where you are and a good idea of where to go and how long it might take you.
– Papa

PS, a while ago I picked up a button compass for the watch band. Won’t mention the brand here, but I’m not particularly impressed with it. Better than nothing I suppose. I see that Suunto has one for less money. The one that I have is not from a well known compass mfg. But still from a reputable company, which is the reason that I bought it. I’m not too far from Lake Michigan, so have been wondering why the location of Polaris doesn’t change? Wouldn’t it seem like it should change locations if the Earth is rotating? Also do you know why celestial navigation is done by using plane trigonometry, instead of spherical trig.? Just wondering 🤔

P.S., PS :) Thanks for the info earlier!

PS, al l do have to admit that you have to make sure that the compass is flat, so it’s possible that it may not necessarily be the compass so much after all 😯

gps will mess with your mind if you don’t know where you are going in the first place ( it’s a suggestion not a trueism ) ‘ the first thing to do is pull out the ole map, put it on a semi flat dry area- the top of the map goes north ( using compass if have or using sun orientation if available ) ,figure out on the map what your final destination is – then look for the long lines that are highly recognizeable -water course ,power lines, roads, and pipe line railroad tracks . use these guide line to help with orientation – ie.north of road, power line to right, left turn where power line crosses creek ect: above all, before the first step is taken STOP,LOOK,LISTEN -observe all land marks and how they are orientated to the map , listen to any sounds -road noise,railroad sounds ,industrial noise ie: chain saws heavy machines kids playing ect: above all don’t get lost and get a sat phone.

– ,CR – Sorry to be so long getting back to you, but it has been busy. I work 12-hour shifts in an Urgent Care Clinic and we have been covered up. Even watching the news is difficult as most of the TV’s are tuned to kid’s programs, and we don’t spend much time in the individual rooms not talking with people. In the 24 hours (36 with Friday) I worked this weekend, we saw over 160 patients with two docs and myself and eight or nine support staff. We sent nine of those to emergency rooms for higher level care; four of those never went past me, as I had to tell them they needed higher level (and more expensive) care. I also got to deal with the grandmother who thought I was abusing her daughter and granddaughter, who thought I was ‘refusing’ them seeing our doctor because the baby had a high temp (102.8°) and was having febrile seizures, because they “didn’t have insurance”, rather than needing higher level care. If anything, I was trying to save the baby’s life (and only incidentally save them our costs on top of what the E.R. three blocks away would cost. If I see the baby and send them on, there is no charge.)
You asked about Polaris staying in one place. Do you remember the Harlem Globetrotters and the player spinning the basketball on his finger? The earth as it spins is doing just what that basketball is doing; if you imagine the player himself turning around in a circle you will come even closer, with his head as the Sun.
Polaris just happens to be in that ‘sweet spot’ where the player’s finger is touching the ball. It has been in that spot for literally thousands of years, and barring some major incident will remain there several more.
As far as GPS goes, I have several stories. I remember two lost lieutenants arguing, and one of them literally pointing and saying that they, right then, “are standing on that mountain over there!”
Sometimes it’s hard to be respectful, much less keep a straight face!
– Papa S.

PS, keep up the good work in the clinic. Have a cousin that’s a paramedic, about 15 yrs. on the road, now in ER. Don’t know how she does it. A lot of good people in the medical field that do great work. Actually I’m one of those flat Earthers! Probably catch flack for that. But when you see PhD scientists onboard, and the authenticating tests, and commercial pilot testimonies, etc. Plus Biblical references. You begin to realize that there is a lot of truth coming to light. Actually for Polaris to stay in that spot if the Earth is orbiting , the Earth would need to be orbiting around Polaris. Polaris centric, if you will. Yet we’re told that we’re orbiting around the Sun. Can’t be both! YouTube: Great flat lake test. Lake Erie, from end to end, 213.47 miles, totally flat, That doesn’t even scratch the surface. No pun intended :)

CR,

Your comment on explaining how the North Star, Polaris, is always more or less stationary to the north. Think of the earth as a seat on a merry-go-round and the center axle of the ride as the sun. Your seat is tilted so your head is pointed directly at a light representing the North Star suspended above the ride. Even though you are rotating around the center axle (the sun), your head is always pointing towards the light due to the tilt of your seat. Due to the angle of our orbit around the sun in relation to the position of the North Star and the center axis of the earth always pointing towards Polaris, the 365 day trip around the sun slowly changes, slightly the distance and surface exposure to the sun on either side of the equator, bringing us our seasons. Maybe a highly synchronized tilt-a-whirl would be a better analogy. Hopes this helps. This is from memory from my school days, so please don’t beat me up too bad if I missed something in the explanation. Order out of chaos like this reaffirms my belief in a creator God. Stuff like this don’t happen by chance.