long term grid down

Timeline Of Events Following A Long Term Grid Down Catastrophe

People may have basic emergency plans for a short term power outage. Usually these things are fixed fairly quickly, thanks to electric utility company lineman working the affected region. However, “what if” the entire power grid went down here in America? A catastrophic long term grid down. Surely that would never happen, right? “Come on man!” No way…

What if one of several potentially possible events actually brought the grid down all across the country? Without debating the aspects of causation, I wonder what might be the cascading timeline of resulting events following a long term grid down disaster? I would like to present an opinion about what might happen versus hours, days, weeks, etc.. afterwards.

Originally published back during 2015, I decided to revisit this and re-post given the recent talk on the blog regarding X-flares, CME’s, and grid down.

Most of those who are preparedness-minded know and realize that they cannot count on government to ‘save them’ in the thick of a major and overwhelming disaster such as the aforementioned hypothetical long term grid down situation. Unfortunately the vast majority of people presume that there is a plan. And that regardless of the disaster, their government will step in and ‘provide’ for them. It will save them, so to speak. It will all ‘get fixed’. In the terrifying event of a long term grid down, this assumption will prove to be deadly.

Lets look at a potential timeline of events when the lights go out in America…

IMMEDIATE AFTERMATH

The cities would be the hardest hit.

  • Thousands trapped in elevators
  • ALL electrical appliances shut down… refrigerators, heating, A/C
  • ATM machines are inoperative
  • Banks and other businesses shut down
  • Gas stations without generators cannot pump fuel
  • For most, profound darkness

DAY 1

Some people are beginning to realize that this is very widespread, and could become a long term grid down situation.

  • Water faucets begin to run dry in some areas without utility generators
  • Toilets will no longer flush without water pressure
  • Law enforcement and responders overwhelmed by emergencies
  • Outbreaks of looting in the ‘usual places’
  • Batteries on laptops, cell phones, and flashlights are dying
  • Those with generators are using up their fuel
  • Massive ‘grid lock’ in the city regions, Some vehicles run out of gas and are abandoned
  • Conflicting descriptions of power outage, unknown expected duration, but looking more like long term
  • Officials disagree regarding recommended actions

DAY 3

  • Gas stations running out of fuel (those that could pump)
  • Water is at a premium
  • Some emergency generators assist in pumping water and sewage (limited)
  • Many ‘unprepared’ are running out of food already
  • Majority are beginning to panic, as reality sets in of this being a widespread long term grid down event
  • Drug stores and grocery stores being stripped in some regions
  • The “Oh $hit” moment of terrifying realization…

END OF WEEK 1 – LONG TERM GRID DOWN

  • Any .gov emergency rations are depleted
  • Hospital generator systems are running out of fuel, Renewed fuel delivery isn’t looking good
  • Some of the elderly and infirm are dying
  • Hospitals overwhelmed and struggling to perform emergency services
  • Martial Law is declared by the government, though most don’t get the message
  • Military attempts to maintain a veneer of order, but not enough personnel
  • Looting has become rampant, Desperate people join in
  • Millions upon millions are ‘on their own’

END OF WEEK 2 – LONG TERM GRID DOWN

  • People have become deeply frightened and fear for their lives, now knowing that this is going to be a long term grid down catastrophe
  • Most are now entirely running out of food to eat
  • Many are dying in regions without access to water and the inability to get somewhere else
  • Many are dying in regions /climates where there is no heat (if during winter)
  • Disease sets in (e.g. typhoid fever, cholera) from eating tainted food, water, poor sanitation

THE END OF THE FIRST MONTH

  • Many drug dependent patients are dying or are dead
  • The millions with severe psychotic disorders (no more meds) create bedlam
  • People and communities fighting over resources
  • Home invasions and violence related die-offs
  • Escaped prisoners, organized gangs, more violence related die-off
  • Communities are slowly starving

THE END OF THE FIRST YEAR OF LONG TERM GRID DOWN

90% are dead

The timeline of events following a long term grid down will vary based on population density, cities, suburbia, rural, season, and geographical circumstances. However it’s an interesting mental exercise to come up with a ‘best guess’. The process may help motivate more preparedness :=)

What’s your input? Would you add to the above or shift things around a bit?

[ Read: When The Grid Goes Down – It’s Going To Be ALL LOCAL ]

One Second After
(amzn)

200 Comments

  1. government first and main priority is to protect themselves.
    The general population is not even second or third on a priority list.

    I don’t think it’s the same in small towns or townships but they have little to no resources.

    1. Small towns and townships have shown remarkable creativity in balancing their budgets on the backs of motorists. I don’t believe for one moment they won’t go a-viking thru their countryside confiscating resources. “Government” looters are the worst of the worst.

          1. Everyone just take a deep breath. This is what NWO wants……all us minions to just shoot each other at the outset of all this and expend all our ammo on each other so we have nothing left to go after “them” who are the planners behind all this. Prepare. Hunker down. Protect what is yours of course, but wait. The men in their high castles can’t stay there forever…..

    2. I disagree, im in a small town.
      I have made my own off grid solar generator with 12v car batteries. Im a prepper. I buy meat from a rancher and nieghbors fresh eggs from chicken coops. Cb radios, body armor, and ammo.

      Maybe im a different cut of the cloth…

        1. So true. A small trustworthy group to work and defend vigilantly is the only way. Get good with God and one another. I’d say at least 18 people.

      1. Bubba tubs, you have the right idea. Minimizes to completely eliminates that…”OH S#@T WTF AM I GONNA DO!!” moment.

    3. “When” is NOW. Read all the comments. Seems most think there will be some form of “power” for radios, phones, hams and AM/FM, mers, etc. to remain in contact with friends/neighbors and the like. If there is power for such items or the ability to make power for those items then we aren’t talking about the REAL DEAL. If its a grid down for some length of time it will be awful for some, even most, but it will be a blip on the radar for the whole of humanity. People will make it through. If its an EMP event that takes us back to the days before electricity then we are really talking about catastrophy for humanity; at least the areas that have been effected. So we as preppers need to make the hard choices and act accordingly. At least that’s how I see it if we boil it all down to the bare essentials.
      continued…

      1. Our ancestors lived quite well, although not easy, but not with a system of electrical this and that. Small orchards (peaches, pecan trees, avacodo, etc), gardens, water, hand tools….these are where our money and efforts should be NOW. In all honesty at this day and age we prep for our progeny and those who come after us. All the can goods, dehydrated/dried and canned foods we have are but a spec of what will be needed….long term….zero electricity for an extended future. You are prepping and preparing for your kids and grands. This includes the education for sustainability when you are gone. Our ancestors were tough as nails; our grand kids and great grandchildren will need to be as well to survive in a decent fashion. Water was derived from windmills and hand pumps. Not solar powered pumps, which are great right now, but will be useless after an EMP. So invest in having the well dug now and a hand pump installed; money well spent. I think prepping for a worst case scenario will put you miles ahead no matter what the actual emergency.

        1. Always harken back to how our relatives “made it” in the 1700 and 1800’s. It was done with ZERO electricity. And that’s the main focus…how to survive without the use or availability of electricity. Our families achieved this but they knew no difference. We are weak and soft and mother nature isn’t kind to those in a survival situation. Do what you can now for your family members who will follow in your footsteps. Most of us will be maggot food shortly after the grid is down; do what you can now. And BTW, our ancestors made it by becoming proficient at gardening, etc. by learning from those before them and much trial and error. If you think that packet of seeds is going to help you, you are naive by a magnitude without trying to garden yourself. Those who make it look easy are not beginners. Try and fail at your “victory garden.” Next time you dig another plot for veggies you’ll have more experience and be a bit more successful. It’s going to take a few times to get it right. Get started for the sake of your future family members. They need you to begin now. They will thank God that you were ahead of the curve in this way. Good luck people.

        2. Hand dug well is not an option in some areas to have drinkable water. there are a few hand dug in our area, at least one ends on a slab of rock. @ least one other was filled in with concrete and red clay..The water table dropped for more than one during droughts in the 90’s… with no one who maintains these 4-6 ft diameter holes more than 40 feet is really hard to maintain and dangerous too! Have you ever tried replacing a curb that has broken half way down a 4o ft well. ..No me neither, My Uncle was present when it was discussed, 55 years ago… there was one person able to direct others to do this task.There is much more than digging or boring a hole.. Just Sayin’

        3. Years ago dug a 20′ well w/ a post hole digger. Just added 4′ sections to the handle. Got an antique pump, new leathers and it was great.

      2. 3rdOption.
        I very much agree. We have the modern conviencie’s that most have. But we also have everything manual to replace them.
        We have a small solar system for a few lights and to recharge the radio’s and other things.we don’t need power for water, we don’t need power for heat or cooking.
        We have been working on this for a long time. We are just waiting for the ball to drop. I pray it never happens. Hell, we have nothing else to do 😁 and I’ll have no excuses for not going to town.

    4. The category 5 hurricane Ian in Florida was an example of this EMP grid down and regardless the survivors survived the storm by God’s grace. I was one of them!

      1. It’s easy when less than one percent of the country goes down.
        It’s another when half goes down.

  2. None of us know, and that’s a problem. Lots of death for the unprepared, which is most folks. The most difficult transition will be ‘when.’ When do ya quit trying to maintain your previous lifestyle? For those of us who are prepped to some extent, when becomes a huge factor.

    Once the decision is made, the new normal begins. It will be challenging. NO MORE lots of things. Mental issues from some who won’t make the transition. A totally different experience for all of us. Likely for the rest of our lives. The first month or so will be crucial.

    In some ways, there won’t really be shortages. Fewer people acquiring the same amount of hard goods. Scavenging and re-purposing will become a thing. “When” does that become OK? When is an issue. Each of us will have to make that determination. I’m not a thief, but if my neighbors are dead and I need something I know he owned……………? Is it wrong? Difficult times are coming. Obviously, a rural perspective.

    1. Plainsmedic, That’s very thought provoking. Interesting angle to the topic… “when”. The point in time in which the decision is made (for the new normal). When exactly is that? Different for everyone I suppose.

      1. I’m tired and I’m lonely. Been doing this for a very long time, prepping, learning, waiting. Have all the things covered enough to survive. Most think the two of are nuts, including our children. I’m beginning to wonder if they’re not right. Thinking lately to sell it all and become nomadic. Wander until I find community with like minded people. I keep praying for guidance. Thanks for listening, since you made it this far.

        1. MarM,
          You are not crazy.(unappreciated maybe, but not crazy) You are aware of the growing probability of bad times ahead. 50% don’t have the brains to see past next Tuesday, another 45% choose not to acknowledge what they know is a threat. You are in the 5% that see, and prepare. You have like minded folks here at MSB, welcome, feel free to comment and ask questions, read all the back articles KenJ has archived for our use. We are here for each other.

        2. MarM: Just keep on keeping on. I’m sure many others have had the feelings you have, I know I have. However, I just keep on. It makes me wonder how Noah was able to overcome the ridicule while building the ark. Since I’m forgetful, I had to go back and read some of Genesis. Noah was about 500 years old when he was first mentioned. When Noah enters the ark, he is about 600 years old. It is speculated that it took him about 75 years to build the ark. Just imagine what was thought of Noah, working on that boat for 75 years. I’m sure he was laughed at, mocked, and had to endeavor years upon years of turmoil from neighbors and the townsfolk, until it started raining…………………… Thanks for posting what you posted. I believe we all feel the way you are feeling from time to time. Just heed the call and keep the faith.

          1. It actually took 120 years for Noah to build the ark. The book of 1 Peter tells us so.

        3. MarM. You are on the right railroad track, and it mirrors what most of us here believe. Noah was not nuts and neither are both of you, don’t know where you are…..but suggest you take the walk on the edge and find that path that’s right for you and yours. myself it took me 50 years to find mine and adding 25 more of doing, planning, the picture is getting clearer. Keep the faith, hang tough, you will be rewarded.

    2. Plainsmedic, agree 100%, and even more so it’s not when it’s a in your face premise that it’s going to happen. We are as preppers already past the point of “what if” and our prepping path chosen is already set in motion for that adjustment to a new social standard that we will survive or die based on the thrown of the dice on, location, timing, acquisition planning, our own event choices, and divine Provence (luck in another term).
      So anyone implying that it may or may not come to fruition in my book has their head buried in the sand, and also is definitely not in the category of being called a prepper or survivalist. I am Gods creation, and he is my savior, I plan, execute, and most of all accept what will be. I am not, a fatalistic person, I am the realist, are you.

    3. The homeless will become our teachers. Same for us older folks who still know how to live off the land. Money will be useless. Barter.
      When the power goes off, I’ll can the food in the freezer (gas stove). I can feed a few for a year, but they must learn how to grow food and hunt and fish.
      I have put off digging a well where I know a spring is. I have enough water for a week. There are artesian wells nearby but too far to walk.
      Eugene will be in trouble. Diabetic with high blood pressure.
      But you know we won’t need to prepare for even a few months. America will be taken over by some other country.

      1. LulaP, The homeless? Nope. They are 100% dependent on the nanny society to provide their tents, clothes, shoes, medical care, needles, food, sleeping bags, etc. The chronically homeless also exhibit some combination of mental illness, persistent criminality, alcoholism, and drug dependence. The only thing they have to teach is that if we are unable to care for ourselves, we are easy prey for the predators out there. They will be among the first to perish if S should HTF.

      2. Problem is look what happen at Katrina look what happened in buffalo NY this winter look at blm. We have standing violent army’s we call “cities” sprinkled all over this country and they have zero hesitation taking what they want with zero ethics. They travel in large packs as well..

        1. John Galt. You left off one sentence,with it’s inference…. If large packs are moving-one can guess they are part of that standing violent army. They only understand violence.

      3. LulaP, also consider,
        #1 having that water source tested.for chemicals and contaminants while this is available and getting best filter you can find for this and any more water sources. ..also consider bio-filter set up and have those things on hand./secured in multiple locations.
        #2 If you have food for a year for a few, how many do you think will/could find you.. YOU are that far behind in your preps. ( how many will come, multiply food need by number to determine how many more years food you will require to fill those..)
        #3 precious metals stash will help , and also can reveal location/possible supply point.
        #4 yes, there are things we can learn from homeless.- some of that will crossover. Many do not have the work ethic to continue in our present society, those who have skills and they are varied, may find those skills are once again in demand,ie find usefulness in helping others for regular meals… Things like making do with little, hiding a fire, sourcing materials from others trash or abandoned things being transformed into a useful and needed item. .
        #5 make stash(s) of needed supplies away from your main house/property.. possible underground hidey hole? having a dry place, where one can hole up comfortably could prove vital. #6 those who exist in quietness are often passed over and around by larger groups… vigilance when others move thru-necessary. quietness demanded til action is required.

      4. Not even close. Us Patriots will fight till our last breath. No one will just take over. We are ready
        Get jugs and tarps for rain water. Chlorine tablets
        You can fast for days. But you won’t last without good water. God bless you all if things go bad. WE CAN MAKE IT NO MATTER WHAT

    4. Plainsmedic,
      All of my neighbors have children. ..So what is theirs become the children’s and grandchildren’s,as things are normal… unless i have a current agreement with them to use things they have.would be considered “taking without plan of repayment from the next generation.”…we have those agreements in place now, for tools, and other equipment w/ a few ppl.. It is understood if i break it I own it and replace.

  3. I agree that this is the most likely “end” scenario. If you can, be in a lightly populated region. Build a reasonable food supply, as you are able. Have at least a little solar capability. Get involved with HAM radio. There are clubs most everywhere that would love to have new members and these radios work on 12V power. Have a loose idea of whom you can trust, but keep the extent of your preparedness to yourself. Know also which neighbors, relatives, and acquaintances are likely to be a problem. Be proficient with your weapon, but keep that to yourself also. Water will be one of the most important and the most difficult item to have a source of. Try to find an answer. Good luck!

    1. Our solution for water was to have a hand pump well installed, like on grampas farm. It works all year round, even in subzero temperatures. The peace of mind is priceless.

      1. police and military will abandon their posts and return home to protect their family’s at the first hint that this thing is serious/long term.

        after the truth sets in… the military and police forces will be more than 90% dissolved/went home 😂 anther three days and they have long since disbanded themselves 😂.

        after six days… you are free 😉.

        1. Personally… I think the method on an EMP is important.
          If Solar related… only part of the planet is affected… and perhaps other countries will help those affected… while others may take advantage of the situation (In sure you can imagine the actors).
          If deliberate attack… then expect a national draft against the ‘enemy’ whoever that may be..
          …..or with enemies within ‘Traitors’ (again Im sure you can think of many)… or as a False Flag by TPTB & MIC/Pharma… to institute a NWO with pretend enemies…
          Those not USED as pawns with be left to their own devices… and the scenario of the author will unfold for those not accustomed to prepping… and its related life-skills.
          Personally I love our In rural desert community… not financially Carpinteria of preping to the degree I belive is a baseline… but Que Sera Sera…
          I believe in God and exercise my 2A as backup…
          May the Creator grant you all the blessings of creation.

          PS If there is a EMP for everyone… but some how the government is still operating with resources and trying to rewrite the Constitution… then you know the face of evil… so get your Armor of God ready.

          1. DiMarco, An EMP from a nuclear explosion happens in a tiny fraction of a second and impacts a specific area of land largely depending on the height of the explosion. The timing, force, direction, and duration of a coronal mass ejection, plus the tilt of the earth, determine how much of the earth is impacted. It can take days for the earth to clear the path of a CME, thus subjecting most of the surface to devastating magnetic disturbances. We’ve been fortunate so far.

      2. Brand name? Seller?

        Would you recommend what you have to others or is there something else you would recommend instead?

        1. LittleRay i think he is referring to EMPshield. advertized and link on marfoogle news, u tube… and others.

      3. I added a Simple Pump on top of my well casing. It was easy to install and I am able to attach a hose to it and run it to my home pressure tank and have running water in my house. Put it off for years but finally bought one in 2021.

  4. When do ya quit trying to maintain your previous lifestyle?

    For most that will be immediately after the event, trying to maintain is wasting resources.
    Without power everything changes that moment it fails.
    Even for people that have fuel and power, conservation of resources will prevail.

    The longest power outage for me in the last 20 years was a couple weeks ago(only 16 hours long) and that really got me thinking.
    Thankfully for the cold, food spoiling was not a problem.

    1. Horse,
      I agree with ya. However, most folks will think it’s a short term thing. They will, as Ken noted, think the guv will come and fix it. They may have a generator and that gas can for the lawn mower. They will likely use it to maintain the only lifestyle they’ve ever known. Yes, it’s wasteful, but when has that ever stopped most folks? After all, ya can’t cook without a microwave.

      Woodchuck would get on-the-air and quickly determine this is a long term thing. Me too. 73 Woodchuck

      1. Exactly right. The public at large will be in denial. As the long term grid down situation goes on and on, people will ‘wake up’ to it’s extent at varying points along the timeline. Like Woodchuck and Plainsmedic implied, I too would fire up one of the HF rigs (ham radio) and discover the magnitude of the blackout pretty quickly. Staying ahead of the curve. Lifting the drawbridge…

      2. We have attempted to have three layers of back up and it still doesn’t seem enough when you think about the reality of no more grid electricity. The long term is more precarious than the first month of total outage in that China will be waiting in the wings to come and claim the continent for badly needed farmland. Live wisely and choose friends carefully and keep your faith in God. We will be needing miracles…

    2. Horse,

      Believe you nailed it…lifestyle. Giving it up…or failing to come to grips with the realization it’s never going to be normal again is probably going to be the death of the majority of folks.

      Food, water, shelter, and security. Primary to survival. Makes no difference whether a wild animal or a human, but most will fail to survive as they mourn over or try to recreate what they once had. A squirrel or a chicken…or primitive man…makes little difference…constantly in search of food, water, shelter, and security.

      Prepping and a stash of essentials may make the difference…buying time to come to grips with the new reality we will face.

    3. In August of 2020 we had a derecho in IA. Without power for 14 days. Had fuel and generators to share with neighbors. All frig and freezers ran and stayed cold. Experience no looting in our neighborhood and everyone worked together. A good learning experience for all of us. Found our weak points and upped our preps

      1. Zen,
        Yep, a good learning experience. You likely still had AM/FM radio to listen to. Music, weather, and news, so you KNEW it was a short term thing. You knew that help was coming, just a matter of time. Now, try to imagine the same scenario without AM/FM radio. How long do you and your neighbors do the socialist thing? You know, pool the resources and keep everyone going. “We’ll do it just like last time.” Animal Farm comes to mind. It works, for a while.

        I’ve been through ice storms with similar impacts. It’s a great thing to help each other (socialism) during a short term emergency. A “forever” emergency is a different thing. It’s difficult to imagine a time with zero news. We’re inundated with it on a daily basis. The NOT KNOWING would be difficult. There are things we can do (ham radio) to prepare for a forever emergency. If ya know it’s a long term thing, you’ll likely approach it differently. I will. Hard decisions for hard times.

        I’m not picking on you at all. Sounds like ya handled things well. I don’t have all the answers, but there are tons of ????? BTW what is a derecho?

        1. As neighbors we have communications set up and security protocols set up for longer term outages. We have gardens and home can most of our food. A derecho is an inland hurricane. We had winds for over an hour at 150-155 mph.

          1. Zen,
            I assume you’re talking about CB or gmrs for close-in comms. Excellent, for security purposes. I’d strongly encourage at least one of your group to do the ham thing. He/she could spread whatever news on your current comms network. Just my opinion.

        2. Plainsmedic, derecho is Spanish for straight ahead. To give directions in Spanish to go straight ahead, If memory serves (and it doesn’t always) it’s something like Sigue or Siga Derecho. That is what this storm did, flattening fields and more for many miles. We have two sons that live there (Ankeny, Polk City.)

        3. Luke 23: 30, says Destruction is recycled to include Rev.6:15 & Jer.4. WEF is on stage here @ Dan.8:25, as The twisted Rev. Pitts of 1857, Whitehouse chaplain in his 2,300 day ,solarized sermon put it! After thinking that we put Putin in a dirt nap, the price of admittance to grid 6uild 6ack 6etter, will be the Esau faustian yoouchi Fates pogrom! So, our sovereign dignity, peace as the world will never know, is to Noah style, plan on a two year seige, or the 3 year seige of City of AI, Jerusalem, Baby Lawn, 👶 😉

    4. “When do ya quit trying to maintain your previous lifestyle?”

      If you haven’t already transitioned, it will likely be too late for the most part. You have to know how to run wood stoves, your solar has to already be in, you need water source without electricity, you need to move and farm with horses or other way like no-till, know how to save your harvest and how to save seeds for the next year, how to raise livestock, butcher and cure meats, hay without tractor (horse or manual), etc. You need to know basic and not so basic medical, like how to help birth animals and sew up a calf that cut itself, etc. 20 years ago would be the best time to quit trying to maintain your previous lifestyle.

      1. Yep, it will go from growing 15,000 acres to a 6000 sf kitchen garden, necessity, maybe 10 acres of wheat and corn mixed

        1. It’s to hot here in our area for wheat but winter oats grow great.
          Corn does great here if we can get it in the ground early enough. It’s time to plant here now but it’s still to wet.

      2. So, everything you typed is fine, the horses are here.
        The largest problem would be the hay, cutting, hauling, bailing? stacking
        solar
        water
        wood stove
        have goats/sheep
        medical for animals.

  5. One must remember that any EMP attack focused on the U.S. does not effect the rest of the planet, directly, especially, the nation-state, who planned this attack. In addition, an EMP attack is not restricted to only ONE attack, but may be an on-going attack, carried out over weeks, months, or years.

    So, the first attack, coming from legally launched, and currently orbiting satellites, which were placed in polar orbits at 400 to 500 km height, and effect wide areas of an effected nation, could be backed up by surface launched devices, detonated at much lower altitudes, which effect only a much smaller, targeted, area, not already sufficiently crippled by the first attack. After all, the attacking nation, could still have functioning intelligence satellites in operation, which could let them know where to target these smaller EMP devices. For the smaller EMP devices, there are a variety of delivery options available.

    The probability of an EMP attack is made greater by it not requiring anywhere near the technologies, nor resources, required to effectively use ballistic nuclear weapons against the U.S.. Even small nations, with their own satellite capabilities, or who might “rent” the use of another, more advanced nation’s launching capabilities, can directly threaten the U.S. with an EMP attack. Such, nations as North Korea, or Iran, for example.

    Continued…

    1. China’s EMP weapons program utilizes a Helium Ballon Platform detonating between 80-120k feet. We are witnessing test runs and our Occupied Government is complicit in our takedown.

      Aggressive prepping season is here for newbies, final touches for pros. And don’t forget that some cultures have known “long pork” for millennium.

      Most attacks happen at dark…

      1. If an EMP is going to be used as an offensive weapon against the U.S., it had better be detonated at an altitude greater than 400 km, if not 500 km, or the effort will only effect a very localized ground area…which is NOT what you want, going after this country. It would be, ah…stupid…to use a balloon for an EMP vehicle for many, many, reasons. The first of which is it does not go high enough. The second is that there are already satellites in polar orbits..RIGHT NOW..which may already contain EMP devices, two of which could be used to completely take down the entire N. American continent…and result in the death of 90% of us within one-year.

        Even North Korea has at least two satellites in the correct orbits…at the correct altitudes..and of the correct size…to be EMP weapons.

        A stupid balloon is the last choice any attacker would make…for an EMP attack.

  6. I still put chances of complete grid down situation at 5%. That said, if it happens, it will be bad. One thing I did not see in the early stages is that of “mass suicide”. How many (mostly in cities) will get to the point of complete hopelessness and when? Given the lack of hope, how many will just decide to “end it all”? Not a topic most want to discuss, but I think a good portion of people in this country would be prone to this. So how would this effect us and our mental ability to cope and survive?

    1. The reports made to Congress by the military address the “self-termination” of the population, in its estimates. Such acts will take place over the entire time-line after the EMP event. The factors governing this are many, but many citizens will perform this kindness to themselves, once they believe their existence is no longer tolerable and hopeless.

      I suspect many firearms originally purchased for self-defense, will be used, instead, to self-terminate…when the desire manifests.

      I would definitely chose this option, should events dictate. Alone, wife dead, food gone, sick, starving…BANG!

        1. KY – In all respect, honestly….. I’ve been wondering whether taking ones own life, under certain conditions, is a ticket to hell in and of itself. Maybe someone here might help me with a better understanding one way or the other. Those who know they are nearing “their time” might purposely stop eating to speed the process up…… sort of like what animals do. Humans commit to courses of conduct knowing it will result in their death…… as Jesus did….. and we as believers may have to do, as it is written. Could that be construed to be suicidal or a voluntary act favorable for ones demise? Does a “mercy killing”, under extreme conditions, relegate one to hell? Questions I have no answer for. The best I can come up with is maybe it would depend on the condition of ones heart at the time. I truly do not know. Maybe someone might help me better understand. Note: I have never entertained the notion(s). Jesus also demonstrated (in His obedience) that suffering draws us closer to our Father Most High. We will all suffer….. but to what degree is beyond our ability to tolerate? I don’t know…… but I do know life is a precious gift.

          1. SS,
            That guarantied straight ticket to hell is what keeps me around. That and my DW.
            I have to protect her.

          2. In my own world – …….and by protecting her (thinking of others before yourself as Jesus did), you glorify our Lord by following His example. The heart and mind of Christ. Thank you IMOW as your point lends some clarity to my thoughts.

          3. Nowhere in the king James Bible does it say suicide sends you to hell. What sends you to hell is not agreeing with God that you are a sinner and in need of the gift of Salvation provided by His son Jesus on the cross. I believe the catholic church teaches suicide sends you to hell. I don’t pray to Mother Mary. Just go straight to the Father. Hope this helps and doesn’t offend anyone.

          4. Ladyoutlaw
            Im a recovering catholic,
            That is on backwards religion,

            There is a huge huge difference between religion and faith

            I chose faith
            😎🤙🏻

          5. ladyoutlaw, and others..
            … problem is: with taking own life….How can one repent( turn away from-180 degree) of an act -that has NOT yet, been committed.?
            I believe the answer to this question is with the individual alone and with the Father. ( my take is:Those who ARE mentally ill – this is known by the Father and He will take care of them. Those who are trying to escape earthly punishment – should probably have made a different decision.)

    2. I have always thought about the bodies regarding these scenarios.
      Esp. in this cold weather with highs in the zeros –ground frozen in many states.
      I bet our govt(s) haven’t thought this through.
      Forget refrigerated trailers in a grid down. Not that many generators and those will be at hospitals.

    3. Minerjim, these are my immediate responses from my experience with life/death.
      #1 less challenge for any remaining resources.
      #2 disposal of bodies- which dotgov agencies have considered and stockpiled casket covers that will bury 3-6 in mass graves.in what is called a casket liner..
      #3 You and those close emotionally to you will be affected by friends, relatives and neighbors who make any such decision.
      It will be devastating that others we have assisted in the past have chosen this route.
      .. our individual(no one else can make our response, will be a personal one. we can help others, still won’t make any response FOR them.) response will depend on our experiences in life,and prior dependence and acceptance of God and the Obedience we give, and desire to give to His infallible word.
      NOTE: His Word is infallible, man who translates “The Word OF GOD” is NOT infallible.
      to survive with all our marbles,We Must know whom is “in-charge” in this Earth, and our relationship must be secure as We can make it. It is an INDIVIDUAL matter between Man and God, as it will also be @ judgement. Prep on..all areas of development.. mentally, physically, fisically and spiritually.

  7. Part two:

    Because it is legal to place a satellite in orbit…and it is not an act of war…and such is protected by U.N. agreement…the easiest and best way to attack any area on Earth with an EMP is via satellites placed in porlar orbits, at the precise altitude required for the maximum effect for such an attack.

    There is no need to give the victim of such an attack a launch warning, no need for ballistic missiles of any kind, no need of strategic bombers, no need of nuclear submarines, no need to develop MIRV systems and sophisticated re-entry and targeting systems, in order to achieve an effective EMP attack…which kills most everyone in the U.S..

    Just two, dumb, satellites, weighing around 400 pounds, legally registered with the U.N., and placed in the proper orbit via contracted services, is all that is needed. Such satellites are already flying above us…now. Two of them owned by N. Korea, which we know has the required nuclear devices needed…as we monitored their testing.

  8. Of course, the best power plant to have to survive an EMP attack is one using so-called, “fossil” fuels, such as coal, which are not as prone to being permanently knocked out by its effects. But, the main issue will be the ability to transmit electricity to the end user. This ability will be non-existent, even to those very close to a functioning power plant. Hydroelectric power is also less susceptible to an EMP attack. However, it is getting any power from a surviving plant…to anyone outside of it..that is the problem.

    Even if our government, along with other “nice” governments support, are able to effectively control our disabled nuclear reactors, and the EMP attack is brief, and ballistic weapons are never used, the chance of re-establishing a functioning electrical grid to the general populace is a long-term prospect…longer than most will be able to cope with. Islands of electrical power will manifest, at best. And, this power will be rationed to the most necessary needs.

  9. I live in a very cold Northern city. If this happened in winter, I believe fire would quickly become the dominant factor. People would burn whatever they have, wherever they could, to keep from freezing to death. No emergency services to stop the spread.

    1. MnRuby,
      yes, i can see that being a not if, but when thing in the densely packed urban areas. it would only take one fire to burn down an entire city.
      if there was no water, then the responders would have nothing to work with. Chicago in 1871 is a good example. San Francisco in 1906 is another.

    2. My wife and daughters would refuse to go out in the cold for pee. Luckily I am prepared to that because if toilet is not working.. – it (Shhh-) will hit the fan..

  10. Ken briefly touched on batteries dying in cell phones and laptops. I don’t see that as an immediate emergency as there are so many varied ways of tapping power from other devices, cars, AC, DC, neighbors generator, etc. I see the real inflection point coming when all Internet services go down, landline and mobile. When not even the guy next to you can get to Google or make a call – that’s when it’s going to hit the fan. Mental illness? The under-40’s are going to lose their literal minds.

    I have a stash of new, old-fashioned radios with hand-crank dynamos and batteries and external inputs; Sangean, high quality and durable. I look forward to bringing this ancient technology as a spiritual balm to soothe the shattered psyche of convulsing Gen-Z types.

    1. T mac
      Some of those dynamo hand crank radios have USB charging ports, i know we got one from HPR a while back that was a “Red Cross approved” emergency radio/light/charger

    2. We here have talked about this in the past several times.
      My thoughts was young people mainly teens to young adults won’t be able to cope or function without social media, the dependence is reinforced daily I think to some degree through subliminal messaging.

      I’ve been pooh poohed with claims people will just deal with it but the selfishness, self absorption.. the base need to contact people you don’t know is felt as an actual right and a need.
      It will be comparable to taking a person’s food or air.
      Some will just move on, most won’t, anger and violence will be the immediate reaction but the mentally weakest will likely self harm and who will care? no tictok to blab about it.

      My phone will work, or an older one will.
      I will have power for it because my main use/entertainment is audiobooks.
      I have thousands, yes I’m addicted but not to social media.

      1. Horse
        These generations you referenced will indeed be in big trouble and cause big trouble. But I know of several older, upper 40s into 50s people who start to freak out if they can’t get their people to respond quickly. Smart phones are an addiction for young and many older people. I asked a doctor some time ago, if he had seen patients who exhibited withdrawal symptoms from not having a phone. The answer was an emphatic yes. Mostly young, who’s parents had taken it as punishment, but I’m sure there are plenty of adults who would react the same. My thinking is withdrawal from anything will cause some very irrational behavior.

  11. What you speak of here will all come to pass, either by man’s hand or God’s as it is written. One’s longevity all dependents on the will to survive. As I have said many times here, comforts will only be a memory and that is why I have urged folks to build the skills to survive while you can. The only things necessary are the simple means of the ‘Seven’…… Shelter, Fire, WATER, Food, Hygiene, Medical, and Protection. The ability to potentially take “your show on the road” will be important….. even if not immediately…. as it is written. Have the simple tools and skills to do that. In these days coming, YOU are your greatest enemy for your survival in this life…. and the next. What is your reason to extend your life as long as possible through all the suffering you will face? THAT is your question to be answered NOW. God WILL bring us all to our knees as it is written. Some willingly…. others out of hopelessness and desperation. You will not survive this without Jesus. Jesus tells us to endure until HIS return. There is my reason….. and I WILL NOT QUIT on HIM or myself….. or even you. I want to greet Him upon HIS return. There will be many quitters…. and it will be okay to use what they leave behind. For those that quit on Jesus (and yourselves), there is a far greater terrible fate that awaits you….. and you will remember these words….. as it is written. The Bible is your greatest tool for survival……read it and be proactive, not reactive. God’s love letter from HIS heart to your’s. HE tells you what is coming….. and how to deal with it so you my might endure. This is HIS war. If you are with HIM…… HE will see you through it. Love HIM and have faith in HIM…… HE will not fail you, and you will not fail yourself. Eternal comfort awaits you. There is your reason to survive where others lose hope.

    1. My King laid down His precious life for someone as unworthy as me? When Jesus asked that the “cup” be taken from Him, He was not fearing the physical pain. Oh no… no! HE could not bare the thought that His Father, who He loved, was about to turn HIS back on Him when He took on our sin. “Never-the-less, your will be done.” Jesus was obedient to His Father in perfect love for HIM. That same perfect love He offers to us. All He asks is for our love in return. I envision Jesus on the cross. Behind the by-standers and the Roman guards were legions of un-seen angels with swords drawn…… waiting…. just waiting for an ever-so-slight nod from their Master to defend Him. That nod never came in obedience to God and HIS plan. I believe those angels are still waiting with swords drawn. They will soon get that nod to defend and protect God’s elect. That nod will be given in His perfect love for you and in obedience to God’s promise. Why should a believer fear? Be bold……. and speak of Him with the power you have been entrusted with. Jesus said you would do greater things than He. START BELIEVING IT !!! God will demonstrate HIS awesome power through you for HIS will, as long as your will aligns.

      1. SoulSurvival,

        Thank you for your encouragement. We will be facing unimaginable dark days, perhaps sooner than we realize. It is good to be a beacon of Light. I appreciate you sharing yours.

  12. I have two of the Dynamo/Battery/Solar powered radios.The AM/FM/Wx bands come in fine.The shortwave bands
    hardly at all.That’s probably an antenna issue on my part.Any thoughts on the best strait shortwave radio.We have
    several options for electricity when the grid is down.

    I think the only way to survive for any length of time is a well organized MAG.

    1. Chuck,
      You are right, your lack of SW reception is due to antenna. They do make add on antennas that clip onto the metal telescoping antenna with an alligator clip that should help. Or you can just string a long wire out a window to an insulator in a tree, wrapping the bare inside end around that antenna.

    2. AM/FM station will have same problems as anyone else – lack of reliable information and lack of power. Radio stations likely will stop 24h broadcast in few days…

  13. At some point the hoards of ‘looters and takers’ will be crawling all over the countryside to see what they can loot or steal. That is more of a concern of mine than running out of food, water, etc. They will most certainly kill to get what they want. Are any of us ready for that? Just two of us here. Why if there are 20 or more of them? Doesn’t look good………

    1. They will not live long in the country. It is unfamiliar to most city people. Everywhere they go dogs will alert to their presence. Everyone they meet is a sniper; many have night vision gunsights.

      Nobody wants the unwelcome stranger. They are only a threat to them and their family.

  14. DJ5280,
    That’s why people buy repeating shotguns and those evil black guns, for self protection. Hopefully you could drop one or two of the ones trying to break in and the rest would scatter. Your right though….it won’t look good.

  15. DJ5280 you pretty much nailed it. If an armed group of looters comes they will be hard to stop unless you have a armed proficient group with you. I have thought about this problem a lot because it is relevant to all rural property owner. The only solution that comes to mind is to move out of your house and if you have a woodlot is to set up a dugout cabin that can be camouflaged with natural material. It will only be found if someone literally stumbles into it. Not perfect but maybe would work. Most looters will follow roads to your door

    1. cliffhanger/DJ5280 – As a white man it is illegal and possibly a capital crime in this state to defend myself or my property. Yet I choose to remain here for now; I’ve never been keen on others pushing me around. I’ve spent twenty years turning this crap box house into a place that is comfortable and dialed in for me. When the hoards assemble, that’s when the naughty stuff comes out. And that’s when I will die – within seconds or within minutes – quite a few of them will lead the way for me – we’ll sort it on the the other side.

    2. Cliffhanger….very spot on advice, people try and compare a two or three day outage as a comparison, to a major grid down or other catastrophic event, unfortunately theirs is not a realistic evaluation. When the human critter realizes the social norm has forever changed and everyone has reverted to me, myself, and I, your scenario becomes crystal clear. Those lucky enough to have a remote, secluded location will have the best chance of survival, all of us need to be honest in our planning, most friends, relatives will never make it to you. Even here in Nevada in a very remote location, I understand the logistics that any bug out ideas especially with a road vehicle with a travel trailer etc won’t make it very far, and residence will be a target of opportunity by even “good people”.

  16. Agree with earlier posters that EMP is much more likely than nuke attack- much easier to come in and pillage and claim the “new frontier”. Plus expect follow up attacks…

    A Berkey is a preppers best friend…

    Even 90% of preppers that live within 100 miles of a metro area will be dead in 30 days-someone will pick you off, you just can’t defend yourself(s) for long… Only VERY rural folks who have secluded property who know how to hunt, etc. with long term ties to the area might make it…

    1. EMP is not a threat on its own. They’re not trying to burn out your cell phone. It will accompany a barrage of nuclear missiles to scramble any defenses present.

      1. White German Shepherd, If you’re a sincere participant in the preparedness lifestyle, and not just one of the trolls we get now and then, it’s time to increase your understanding. I suggest you start with this Congressional testimony (govinfo.gov/content/pkg/CHRG-114hhrg96952/html/CHRG-114hhrg96952.htm). Then maybe review these unclassified Congressional committee reports (michaelmabee.info/unclassified-emp-commission-reports/). Then take a look at this War College study (csl.armywarcollege.edu/usacsl/publications/InTheDark.pdf).

      1. KY, An electromagnetic pulse is one component of a nuclear explosive blast. The effects of the EMP associated with a ground-level nuclear detonation are limited to just a couple of miles. A targeted EMP attack on a large land mass occurs far above the earth. One that can cover North America from the Arctic to Mexico City including all of CONUS, would need to be detonated about 300 miles up.

  17. The DoD’s estimate of 90% dead in a year by starvation, disease, and societal breakdown was first promulgated in the early 2000s I believe. That’s when grocery store shelves were full, just-in-time delivery was working well, no one’s immune system was severely compromised by mRNA genetic therapy, and we had a national and global economy robust enough to recover from the 2008 financial pothole in the road to increasing prosperity. . . .

    Now people are more dependent on the guv to tell them when to evacuate, where to go, what to get. Now more than 80% of our population in the US lives in urban and peri-urban areas. Most sheep will wait a day or two for the power, phones, radio, tv, and internet to come back on. There might be a very short window – 12 hours or less – for folks with someplace to go to get there. I’ve advised my group that if the day comes where the power goes out, their cell phones don’t work, and there is no radio reception they are to move out to shelter as fast as they can. With what we just saw during the Buffalo storm, I think many lives will be lost the first day due to folks suffering from normalcy bias, venturing out to try to get groceries and other necessary items, and running into crowds of looters at stores and warehouses. House-to-house looting will happen later, but not much later. Lack of food and drinking water, declining health, shock, and confusion will, I believe, slow most folks to a crawl within a couple of weeks. No matter when it happens, it’s no more than six months to summer, or winter. I don’t think it will take a year. Too horrible to contemplate.

  18. The announcements of this week are even more reason to strive to be able to live like its 1799,
    Can you cook/heat/whatever without grid or gas?
    What about when the stormtroopers are going door to door?
    None of this looks good and none of it will be pretty

  19. Many of the items in Day 1 through week 1 resemble what happens after a major hurricane. People who know get ready. Those who don’t or who believe the gov will save them set back. Over the past few years FEMA has started saying three days response, prepare for three days before we come. Now you see PSAs on getting a three day bag prepared. How much longer before they move to a week? I think they are trying wean people off the “instant” response. Most won’t pay attention.

    When the grid goes down across the country by the end of day three it will all be over (except the dying) for 90% of the population (panic/chaos) and they realize help isn’t coming. It won’t take any more time than this for the end. Just my opinion.

    1. Deep S
      They already moved us out to 14 days, the state emergency management crew moved us from suggesting 3 days for each person to 14 days for each person/pet, so that was interesting, they did that a couple years ago with their annual hurricane preparedness announcement.

      1. Kula at least 14 days is muuuch more reasonable for any “minor” disaster such as a hurricane. You did say it was state ems so they have figured it out. Help ain’t coming soon if at all.

        1. Deep South
          The most troubling thing about that, when the article came out on a local news website, there were a number of people grumbling about having to keep that much stuff on hand.
          Just cant fix stupid.
          One solid tsunami and there may be no way to get anything here for months

  20. After reading ‘Tango’s’ comment about mass panic. I have a question for all of you how have posted on this current topic.
    How many of you have gone without power for two weeks possible a little longer? Your home is it what this nations governments wants you to have an ALL-electric home? Ever lived in one?
    I have, and living without electricity, except for the generators backing up our power source was
    a living hades.
    Until you have gone without electricity for over two weeks. Please put on your thinking caps and try to walk that path. In the dead of wintertime, the saving grace was our wood pellet stove for heat that we ran via the generator. No bathing, no washing dishes, no cooking without the propane cooking stove, no water for anything as the well is below the level of the home. Our saving grace was I had store water in one-gallon containers.

    1. Antique Collector
      I’ve practiced “lights out” many times. But I knew the power was just a switch turned on. Never pulled my meter and went totally power gone. The longest I’ve practiced was 7 days, and it was tough, very tough.

      I’ve set myself up with a wood cook stove, well is artesain now plumb so I can get fresh water, I live on a septic tank system, so that would still work. In the event of total grid down, I have that covered for a short time, at least enough time to save as much out of the freezers as I can. I have plenty of choices for heat, lighting, cooking, security, bathing, washing clothes.

      What bothers me the most is, what have I not though about, and neighbors/strangers showing up, just can’t get my thoughts straight on how I’m gonna handle them.

      1. Stand my Ground,
        we went a month without electricity and a week without water in 2005 when Katrina paid us a visit.
        we missed our A/C and hot water but that was it.
        DW and i have always been fond of primitive camping and we knew a week ahead of time it was coming. nobody,,, gas stations, stores had any way to do business. other than the damage done in our area, we thought it was just another camping trip. we are about 150 miles from the coast.
        i have since upped my prepp,s quite a bit. our neighbors have done so also, i have some good ones, mostly family and we are all on the same page.

    2. Survival is all about your location at the time civilization ends.

      If you must worry about freezing to death in winter, move to a warmer place.
      If you are worried about water, move to a place where nature provides more drinkable water than anyone could ever need.
      If you are worried about food, move to a place where the fauna and flora abound with edibles, possibly near an ocean shore, were there are many expanses of flat wild lands, wet lands, and lakes, surrounded by plentiful natural plants and forests.

      If you think you may need to “bug-out” until most of the zombies die off, move to an area, where it is possible to live out of your SUV, with only a short drive…even walking distance from your home…to wait it out for two weeks. This makes things much simpler and quicker, than if one needs travel hundreds of miles…if you have time and do it early enough. Best to have everything you need IN THE SUV…as there is always the chance your “stash” will be compromised by others, who got there first.

      I chose to live in a place which meets all these things and provides everything one needs…all within less than five miles from me…

      Live…where you can live, and make it easier on yourself.

    3. Do whatever it takes to stay healthy, the people that come for your stuff won’t be, and will be easier to “handle”. Once your supply is gone, taking from others may be your next reality. Stay healthy. Prepare for an “only the strong survive” life. Destroy others that come and…stay healthy.

      1. MikeS –

        Nope. I’ll go to sleep and not wake up before I am reduced to stealing supplies from a fellow human. I suppose that makes me less than the fittest. So be it.

        1. In shipwreck survivor incidents without food, the survivors are usually drawing straws after a week to see who gets eaten next.

    4. AC,

      we spent 23 days without grid when we were on the mountain! It was Jan-Feb….very cold.
      We learned a LOT. Ran the generators no more than 4 hours a day. Oil lamps for evening and night time entertainment. Lots of socks and sweaters and throw blankets everywhere.
      We made it through, but I would be lying if I said it was easy. Like I said…we learned A LOT.

  21. We live on 5 acres as do most others in our area. Not counting the actual farms. What I have pondered much of late is, without gas/diesel or perhaps some other fuel…..
    Mother nature will begin very quickly to over grow the yards and fields. Perhaps more so in states that get more rain. Even with a scythe or battery powered mower/saws all you can charge with sun or an old rotary push mower it will be hard to keep an open area around your home. Critters can help of course for a while till they are consumed for food.
    So how will a safe perimeter be set up as in our situation with thick grasses and small trees sprouting… Well we could hang skeletons on poles and in trees…… Post warnings yeah right.
    Many books and movies can be written and filmed about HOW but the reality is when it really happens the real answers will come.

    1. I agree with Horse. Get some goats, they eat anything and everything. When I was working in the oil patch, our field would “hire” a flock of 250 goats to clear out brush. Came with 3-4 big Newfoundland guard dogs and a two legged goat wrangler. IIRC they could clear out 1/4 Sq mile in a week. Really helped cut the brush fire danger alot.

          1. geese are nothing more that giant noisy rats that crap in any open water source, but rats you can eat.
            They are good for alerting you of strangers, they will also let everyone within a mile know exactly where they are.

    2. Mrs. U,
      They make glow sticks that can be activated with a trip wire. May not be the answer for every situation, but it’s an option. Noise makers too. A bunch of empty tin cans strung together. We’ll likely have to deal with much less civilized area around our homes. Dogs are excellent about warning.

      1. Plainsmedic,
        You are right on about dogs. Our 2 yr old pup will hear someone walking up our gravel drive 500′ away or a neighbor coming home late 3/4 mile away. She is a must have for us folks with older ears (or deaf in one and can’t hear out of the other, lol) That said, even with hearing loss I have trained my ears to detect sounds that are out of the ordinary at my AO. I am still contemplating stand alone camera for various acces points around the farm. You can never be too watchfuk.

      2. Plainsmedic,
        there is no better protection for your property than dogs. mine let me know when someone leaves the road and comes up the driveway, they can hear the gravel crunching a half mile away, and they keep the deer and rabbits out of the veggie gardens.
        they live for that. that’s their fun. they are not real aggressive to people, but Lord help a critter.
        they earn their keep.

  22. Scorched earth?
    Herd of sheep and goats.
    Dunno about feeding them during the winter but summertime sheep will clear a confined area.
    3 or 4 can clear an acre in time.
    Breed them all and you have milking goats and those sweet, cute sheeple can be eaten along with the older goats.
    Don’t name them, don’t get attached.
    You can’t eat maybell or sally.

    1. Well…We had a steer named Stewart…he became “Stewy” when we put him in the freezer. (Just sayin)

      1. Pioneer Woman,
        You ranchers sure give your stock funny names. My rancher neighbor has two cows in the close in paddock right now named “Hamburger” and “Meatloaf”!

  23. I am going into approach this scenario a diff.way. We all know there is a master list of all purchase’s made from companies selling long term survival #10 cans/5 gal buckets. This list has or will avail. to most likely all state gov./ police depts./ CERT teams etc. will you be raided probably. The congressional report re: EMP/CME/grid down analysis was released I believe in 2008 & again in 2012.(Dr. Peter Frye). So, if I am a survivalist sheriff/chief of police etc. I’d be well aware of said report & would be a couple of yrs into planning what to do. I would have already set up a action plan contacting LEO’s, retired vets, docs/nurses, carpenters. Mechanics, electricians,farmers,engineers, ranchers, etc. all of like minded people. I would immediately take control of a Costco warehouse, a medical plaza, Pharmacy and farmable land all within close proximity. All members would have motorcycles or pre 1960 operational vehicles stored, a way to make bio fuel, well drilling knowledge & equip., stake out Home Depot, everyone armed with stored ammo. LEO’s would clear out the armory, head to Costco, families in route w/bags packed, police dogs as well. All involved will be following opsec protocol. Water/food-rations/sanitation/security/ communication/reloading ammo/ road blocks all planed ahead. Population of area would become involved, vetted, but no work, no food. Marshall law within the city won’t work cause no one will show up, they are with their families. Law & order is a must. Religion is a must, education a must, homeopathic med a must, food prep/laundry/lighting a must. This will take great planning/organizing of course, is this harsh, yes but so is survival under critical conditions. Figure out what you would do in a urban area w/o a bug out/in place to go. Would this work? Food for thought.

    1. You arent going to be be “taking control” of any Coscto Warehouse, SIMP after collapse. This will be immediately controlled and taken by the federal government and military in the event of collapse. Nice dreaming though LMAO

  24. Addendum: no political persons, liberals, woke kooks, bankers, corporate CEO’s/executives, or elites, radical clergy, racist peoples. Just salt of the earth normal hard working persons may apply. Will have hard – nosed police detective determine IQ if questionable. No stupids, just can’t fix ‘em. Common sense and critical thinkers a +++. :)

    1. Sounds like a plan for medieval serfdom. What price survival? Not saying you are wrong, possibly right. I would hope that LEO officer would have a plan for not being a tyrant after a period of time but human history doesn’t support it. An interesting take on the aftermath though.

    2. Great grand, your concept I agree in principle, in reality our society norms have changed(not for the better) society has evolved or descended as you prefer into a selfish, untrusting, godless mass. If the last two generations had to go through what those that lived during the depression and WW2 (which was self sacrifices and helping your fellow man) the result would be maybe the end of times scenario. There will be no Costco or Walmart warehouses they will have been emptied by the hordes long before any local group could attempt to even get to one of those locations. It will be a major miracle to retain your own supplies and just survive. At this point we are all armchair quarterbacks, as we can only theoretically understand the realities of a “what if’ let alone plan for one. Sorry for the rant

  25. Great Grand,
    Looks good on paper. Might work to some extent in an urban setting. I won’t be participating in this scheme. Maybe something much smaller and far less organized for the rural setting. None of us will survive for long on their own. Rural folks are, for the most part, individualists. We help our neighbors and they, in turn, will help others in need. Yes, all the skills you mentioned will be important. I just don’t see it lasting very long.

    Going back to the way ‘it used to be’ isn’t everyone’s goal. Can’t imagine the way things work now, being anyone’s goal. I doubt we’ll have any choice in the matter, A NEW NORMAL. Who knows?

  26. Wood Gasifier,
    if anyone is interested i found a good printable source of how to guild a wood gasifier…
    .build-a-gasifier.com/PDF/FEMAwood_gas_generator.pdf.
    hope it helps

  27. Mrs U, Old times around here people didn’t have grass yards they had dirt. Bare dirt. They swept it and the chickens ran in it. Larger areas were grazed by live stock. Messy but effective. No mowing necessary.

    1. Deep South, Yes grassy yards were for the lazy…One of my Great Uncles had the swept yard.They had flower beds with veggies interplanted.Holly hawks, Petunias, moss rose,zinnia’s, He did not have chickens…that i can remember,but DGM did and she was his closest neighbor, down the hill across from the well.. I can barely remember DGM taking them eggs…And he fixed some fine peanut butter and jelly sandwiches.LOL

  28. I have a sump pump with a six foot pvc pipe attached.
    Add on a short hose and I can drain two of the three septic tanks behind the house.
    The solids tank can be let go for years with little problems, I did that at the last place I lived.
    The two overflow tanks are liquid only.
    No drain field at all.
    Takes 1/2 hour to pump each liquids tank out +/- a few minutes.

    1. Horse,
      So you pump the 2 liquid holding tanks where exactly????( hopefully quite aways away from you house, well and gardens) Just trying to understand why you have no leach field.

    2. Back in 1950s central Illinois, the sewage was pumped directly into rivers and creeks, used to watch the toilet paper and things floating downstream in the Illinois river that ran from Chicago to the Mississippi. There was an old saying Chicago flush your toilets Peoria needs the water. Smaller towns had runoff ditches of raw sewage headed downstream would see catfish feeding on the raw sewage, to this day I would not eat catfish on a bet. My parents had a septic tank for the home built on a hill, no leech field, just an area which was wet all the time. Tree huggers today would be in the stratosphere over that event.

  29. I don’t do it often, just that the ability is there.
    I pump the water about 50′ to the north behind the wood pile.
    It spreads out and some drains further north, another 20 feet into the sand covered horse arena.
    I have done it several times to find the best method and hose placement.
    Lots of sand-clay dirt here.
    Holding tanks are an option for anyone who doesn’t want a mound and or drain field.

  30. Having lived in several places where, due to weather events, power was out for up to 6 weeks. The first time on my own was in New Brunswick in November of 1986-87, I had a small 1.5kw genset I ran periodically to keep my freezer and fridge cold. I used a oil lantern for light and heat( not too much of that) and cooked on a BBQ while I had the gas. As other’s have said here it was not easy. There was no rioting or looting as there was outside support from areas unaffected by the storm. Today I have a 2Kw genset, a 1.5kw PV battery and inverter set up(A solar generator) and a Canadian product called the WaterLily, a wind or water powered 12 volt generator capable of 2.5 amps DC charging system. I use this to recharge my Solar Cube when overcast or at night. That ‘s not a lot of power but properly used it can keep your furnace running, some lights on and a bit of entertainment/news/ updates. Having a plan first is what is required to survive these event.

  31. Just discovered this blog and read every one of the comments. Excellent information. My husband and I have been researching “earthships” (ideally not using tires) and “primary water” to be completely off the grid and not necessarily have to collect water. If anyone here is familiar with these concepts, do you have any advice and/or experience to share as far as what worked and what didn’t work for you?

    1. Vanessa,
      i have seen many articles on the subject and i have always thought that the hay bail with either ‘cobbed’ or stucco type interiors and exteriors looked to maybe be the most efficient.
      i have absolutely no experience on the subject. but i have always found it an interesting concept.
      here is a link that may help. codylundin.com/codys_house.html
      best of luck on the project and keep us informed on how it goes and what you have learned.

    2. Vanessa,

      As stated below the hay/straw with cob works but so does earth bags which don’t require you to find and haul a bunch of bales. You can simply fill them with the dirt you have on hand around you. Lots of YT videos on the subject.

  32. My solution to the hungry neighbor problem. I got books from the local library on local edible plants and color copied some of the pages. I can hand out booklets. If people show up I will send them off to find something to cook for all of us.
    When people get desperate, for a couple months there is going to be a lot of bullets flying around. Medicare/medicaid usually allow 30 day prescription. Good bye to any one with a transplant on antirejection drugs, the elderly, dialysis.
    Doctors are dependent on electric powered diagnosis equipment. No xray, no MRI. No special testing if production and shipping shut down. No pharmacy and most doctors will be limited to setting a broken bone, catching a baby or sewing up a wound without anesthetic.
    90% die off means 270 million+ dead bodies lying around.

    1. Medical will be a problem. A LOT of things can be handled the tried and true way with herbs. Best start looking for anyone in the area who knows about it and make friends FAST.
      I’m still learning. I have the complete Master Herbalist course which I am about 1/3 way through at the moment. But at least I have the resource and know-how to research through it if I need to before I get there.

      1. The Patriot Nurse has a medical course. on line . self paced reasonable price.find by u tube channel.

  33. DocFont,
    Agreed, lack of medical care, potable water, and accidents will take out half within a month I’m afraid. Lead poisoning within the large metropolitan areas along with fires that get out of control.
    Something as simple as a abscess tooth could become life threatening.
    Good hygiene will be very important.

    1. Why would that happen?

      As a pilot, I know the law requires that my aircraft have ample fuel and be in good working order before I can fly somewhere.

      1. the reference was about emp and non hardened equipment.
        It’s a thing in stories, could be in reality.

  34. I’m prepared for me and mine to survive the first six months, after that it’s in God’s hands. The hard part will be watching the sheep die off and not being able to really help them without endangering my group…I can only hope that I exit this world with my soul intact.

    1. They are not your responsibility. Your family must be protected, fed, cared for, encouraged, led if anyone is going to survive.

      The sheep will die without understanding what happened.

  35. Without Repentance for Sin, and without returning to God; we are doomed. My advice; repent of your sins and sin no more.

  36. I’m surrounded by national forest, have 1000’s of gallons of gas, diesel, kerosene, propane & tons of cut & uncut firewood. Also, have multiple power generators, water well, septic, 40KW off grid solar power, Kratke grow system w/Masterblend fertilizer, food for 10 years, firepower security system, etc, etc etc. But guess what? I’m still mortal and will die. So, my most important prep is my belief, worship & dependence on my heavenly Father and His Son without whom what the hell does all my preps amount to?

  37. A few random thoughts here.
    In the northern winter climates, grid down, the snow blows stop working, the roads become impassible. In a blizzard people will have no rescue in their vehicles and be found dead in the spring. Transportation will grind to a halt the rest of the year for non-nimble vehicles until obstructions on the highways are removed.
    Modern apartments/houses turn into well insulated ice boxes. People try to heat these places without thinking and die of carbon monoxide poisoning. The surviving remainder, home invasions will skyrocket especially targeting those with working wood stoves and fireplaces.
    Forget the days of walking dogs, the zombie like masses will view them as free range protein. Cats also fit in that category along with chipmunks, squirrels and whatever else has meat on its bones. In a battle of the zombie hunters against the animals, the animals have very good odds, reality isn’t as easy as console games make out.

  38. The question is ‘when’ does the lifestyle change? No more than a couple days in. Anyone with a shortwave radio will know its game over the day it happens. All the earth goes radio quiet. “When” has now occurred and YOU need to get moving.

    Get home, and or, get to your bugout location. Delay will clog your escape route. Game over for you probably. If you make it that far dig in and go quiet for a bit. Remain and hidden till the initial die off occurs. Be real, you don’t have supplies for the unprepared. Letting anyone know you have food to give out just made you a target. After a week or better two you can begin to secure around your local area and see what’s around you still kicking. This is now your local community.

    1. Those who live rural and know it’s a done deal from the start who might want to contribute to the community, the best (safest) place to ‘hit’ would be your local school. There you will find canned foods in large containers and quantities as well as some meds from the Nurse’s office. GET IT ALL. Then when things settle a bit, you can offer all of it to the community to share and maybe (especially if they don’t know how much you have personally, they won’t come knocking at your door should the need arise to search out more food to ‘share.’

      1. So, you don’t think any of this food and meds will be missed or recognized, possibly by the people who worked at that school, that moved it/stocked it/used it to feed those school kids then shoot you for stealing needed resources from their town ?

        If I found out someone stole from me only to trickle my resources back to me in some deranged attempt to garner good will I might remove your fingers one at a time.

  39. We had no power, heat or electric at homes for 10 days after hurricane Sandy in 2012 Those who had generators faired the best, but the gas rationing was difficult. One elderly man died at home, likely due to not having heat. Most people were pleasant and worked together but the difference then was, everyone knew it was temporary and you could go out to certain warming centers for some contact and the gym was allowing people to come takes showers free once every 2 days. It was a taste for many people of how disorienting their life would be when ripped out from under them. The mental process of knowing everything was down for everyone with no place to go? I’m afraid if and when that hits it would be a completely different situation.

    1. Ratty, Don’t know who your “they” is but official guv estimates have been that 90% of the country would perish within a year in a grid down scenario. Those estimates are a bit dated and there are more folks waking up to prepping and creating mutual assistance groups. I’d guess 80-85%.

      1. Anony Mee everybody has their own crystal ball, the survival rate will of course vary by region and population density…..we all should factor in the location of the 100 plus nuke power plants in this country, they are not hardened which means backup generators are also toast. Seriously doubt that there will not be enough time to power them down even if there was personal responding and even if they do the cooling ponds will not be operating. With approximately 84 of those 100 east of the Mississippi the mass contamination will most certainly run in the 90% or higher range. As far as another country stepping in, why would they, it would be a hell on earth for those areas affected. With the current social mindset of the bulk of this nation, coming together is a fools dream, get right with the lord and pass the ammunition.

        1. I don’t remember what the system is called but some nuclear plants have been fitted with a system that operates off residual heat to fill and circulate the cooling pool waters.
          I also have no clue how many had this specific back up installed.

          That type of system could possibly operate long term as it takes months to years for the rods to cool.
          Lacking knowledge here.
          For all I know it may have been an R&D thing in testing on one site or many.
          I would like to know more.

  40. Okay, people. You better understand one simple things: solar isn’t forever. Battery life (if there is anything available to use them with) is finite. You only get so many charges out of it and then you’re SOL. SURE our parents, grands and great grands lived without it and we can as well BUT, they were used to it so it will be all the more difficult for us. Kids? Young adults? HOLY COW! They are going to go NUTS! Precious few even have an imagination now which is the basis for ingenuity and critical thinking. Hardly any want to learn anything because they can simply go to Google for the answers IF they need it. WHAT are they going to do? Who has ‘how to’ books anymore? It’s going to be a nightmare!

    I agree with a previous post about small towns going around and collecting everyone’s supplies. Some will try and succeed. Other’s will find it a bit more difficult. I believe the best option for that would be as they did in the book “One Second After.” Those in town who were non preppers pooled their goods for distribution and sharing but those who WERE preppers were allowed to keep their food but not able to take from the town’s larder. That is fair. But there will be those ‘have not’s’ who will try and INSIST that we share with everyone else. While I wouldn’t mind doing it with some and once in a while, I’ll be dadgummed if I say “Yeah! Come on and we’ll all eat off what I have worked, scrimped and saved for just to be able to make it through because I have foresight and you thought I was nuts.” And NO! I don’t want to see anyone starve. That’s why I’m going to insist that they go away so I don’t have to watch.

    1. You can operate things directly from those solar panels if you know what your doing.
      If you managed to protect an inverter or several you still have limited power while the sun is out.
      Definitely 12v items.
      There is no definite yes or no as to what will work after a shtf until it happens.
      I have a metal box with several solar charge controllers in it, that could survive an emp.. or not.
      I just don’t know.

  41. The EMP will destroy all unshielded electronics. Your cell phones will be bricked. The cell networks will all be destroyed. Your Ham radio will be destroyed if you don’t have it shielded. I use a large Ammo box as a faraday cage to house my emergency radio and gieger counter. You can use an all metal trash can as a faraday cage as well. Many cars will not work because of all the computer controls.
    You will know its an EMP attack when all the cell phones won’t turn on.

    1. BJ
      It is a myth about cell phones, they will initially shutdown but, as long as they are not plugged in to the grid, the antenna is not big enough to absorb the electrical pulse and should reboot. The towers are another issue. I have multiple faraday cages and faraday bags of military grade. My vehicle is protected by an EMP shield. I tested a freezer off of my solar generator and in 24 hours it only dropped 20%. Running gas generators in the initial 90 days is not a good idea as they will attract a lot of attention.

      Solar power, if the panels are not hooked up at the time of the event should survive, however the solar generator needs to be protected in a faraday bag or cage.

      1. I love those all or none people.
        So many variables to consider concerning emp.
        The faraday cage is just one.

  42. Quite honestly I really don’t see much difference coming…. 90% are already “brain-dead stupid” their hearts just have not quit pumping yet.

  43. I don’t really wanna be a “danny-downer” but remember “faraday cages” works (on paper), and hopefully in real life. But have any electronics in cages ever been subjected to “Super EMP” weapons – I’m not aware of any! Make a plan “B”, also!
    I’m sure any nuke attack on this country will start with EMP weapons first, and they’ll use the best “they” have.

  44. All you have to do is get away from people for probably about three months (with enough food). The others will kill each other off mostly.

    The real problem starts when the survivors start fighting the Chinese and Russian army’s… battlefield USA.

    Enjoy everything now while you still can.

    1. The proper scenario, for the best outcome for our enemies, is to use a small nation as a shill, such as N.Korea, or Iran, to take the blame for the satellite EMP attack, which takes out the U.S.. In fact, the enemy could arrange for a coordinated EMP attack, using more than one small nation, allied together, as being responsible for the attack. This would allow the primary enemy to escape direct responsibility for the attack in order to avoid any obvious retaliation from our surviving forces, as they loudly condemn the attack, while offering serious, life-saving, aid to our population…which would include the emergency managing of any LOCA nuclear reactors and nuclear fuel holding facilities.

      In this, most probable, scenario, our enemy will not “invade” the United States, they will be “invited” into the country by the desperate requests of our own government, the controllers of which, having been properly briefed on this matter years before.

      Once the EMP attack has taken place, dealing with the “responsible” patsy nations in retaliation, may take place, using whatever still functioning forces our country may still possess, but this fact will remain unknown to our powerless population, perhaps for the rest of their short lives, which will be short, indeed, if all those nuclear facilities are not properly brought under control in time.

      If such retaliation takes place at all, due to the possibility of not exactly knowing who was responsible for the EMP attack with enough certainty. It is even possible the actual enemy backs up their claims of innocence and aid, by attacking the rouge nation’s capitol city themselves…while apologizing for the slight amount of fallout drifting over Soul, and the Sea of Japan.

  45. Please revisit article, Day One, …. How are police and/or first responders receiving calls/emergencies? …. Phone will be nocked out. ….

    1. At least until batteries and methods of recharge runout, emergency services utilize VHF radio communications. Handhelds, mobile, and base stations. Provided there’s a source of 12-volt DC power, they will continue to function if the grid is down. (However, EMP would present additional probable difficulties, if that were to be the causation of grid-down).

      1. Ken
        Im thinking it may be worth looking into how to refurbish batteries, have heard it can be done, not sure the process but might be worth a gander.

        Of course, none of us really know who that 90% die off might consume so it may all be a moot point

  46. Without banking for payrolls, all law enforcement and many military will simply go home stay home and protect their loved ones, simple!

  47. Well…
    Some good comments…
    pretty much what can be found at other “survival” sites
    Still have not seen any real long term survival solutions.
    C’mon guys…… its right in front of you.

    Thank you.

    1. YKW, if you like the other sites better, you need to B there. We don’t have time for snarky mess here.you are welcome.

    2. YKW, Modern Survival Blog has been around (check me on this Ken) since maybe 2010. Determining the depth of understanding shared here by perusing one article and its comments is like using a mud puddle as your grid-down water source. Take a few months, read thoroughly, if you’re sincere about living a preparedness lifestyle. Alternatively, move your trollself away from our community. We may not always agree, or even get along, but we watch out for each other here.

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