The thin veneer of civilization

Is Civilization Just A Thin Veneer Between Civility And Civil Breakdown?

The thin veneer of civilization. It truly is thin. Layered. When the thin veneer layers are peeled back, it’s not a pretty sight. In fact it can be downright ugly.

What Is Civilization?

The root of the word ‘Civilization’ is ‘Civ’ which comes from the Latin civis (CITIZEN).

‘Civil’, which is also derived from the same Latin word, relates to citizens that are ‘trained’, ‘refined’. It is considered the cultural development of man from barbarism.

Are we as humans, naturally civilized? No. We are ‘trained’ to be civil.

“Every civilization is, among other things, an arrangement for domesticating the passions and setting them to do useful work.”

— Aldous Huxley (Brave New World)

Civilization Is A Formula By Design

Is civilized society but a formula by design – of what we are supposed to be? (A thin veneer wrapped around us and held in place by training, indoctrination, and fear of punishment?) Yes. I believe so.

Is the bigger picture and construct of our modern civilization actually an imposition by a smaller authority who understands how to posses the systemic means to power?

How Many Would Behave Badly If The Thin Veneer Of Civilization Breaks?

If you look closely, the veneer of civilization appears to be remarkably thin.

How many would behave badly if they thought there would be no penalties for bad behavior? Would the ugly side of human nature emerge?

Are there triggers of man’s potentially ‘savage’ nature that could cause a breakout of this thin veneer, wicked and barbaric as ever?

How quickly might we transition from civil to barbaric, and what events could cause it?

Triggering Civil Breakdown Of The Thin Veneer Of Civilization

The normalcy bias of a ‘civilized’ people results in the assumption that things (life) will always remain civilized. However civil breakdown is never far around the corner…

Modern humans, modern civilization (society), rely on today’s incredible distribution systems as well as human creature comforts, entertainment, and distractions.

When life gets difficult…

Systems and Distribution

Remove certain things and services that civilization has come to depend on. It will trigger civil breakdown to varying extents. Dependence inherits systemic risk.

There is a higher risk of civil breakdown when the vast majority are so extremely dependent upon external systems for survival. Why? because systems do break down, sometimes catastrophically.

For example, if systems of distribution were to disrupt, it would hamper the means to easily acquire food, consumables, and other ‘necessities’. It could result in a peeling away of civilization’s veneer as desperation turns ugly.

[ Read: When The Trucks Stop, It’s Over ]

[ Read: ‘ Just in Time ‘ Food Supply Disaster is Looming ]

Bubble Economy

We live in a ‘bubble’ economic climate. Absolutely insurmountable debt. The mathematical certainty that it WILL break down, or collapse into a heap of misery. When this happens, there will quite certainly be civil breakdown to an extent – and a major change in ‘life as we know it’.

Remember, your own ‘personal economy’, can ‘turn on a dime’ (quickly)…

Very Opposing Political Ideals and Rogue Governments

We’re living in a time here in the USA (and around the world) of incredible differences in ideological opinion regarding who we are as a people, where we should be going (as a people), and how we should be governed as a people.

Tensions have been extreme at times and have flared into sporadic civil breakdown. This is just a tiny precursor as to where this ‘could’ eventually lead.

How many governments throughout history (and recent history) have murdered tens of millions of their own people? You can look it up…LOTS.

How many internal civil wars have taken place throughout history? LOTS.

The many nation wars throughout history. Conquest.

Regardless of the varying underlying reasons, I would call that “ripping off the thin veneer of civilization”, revealing our human barbarism beneath.

Given the global forces at play, I see this situation escalating as time goes on. I hope that civil breakdown can be averted. I’m not so sure how this eventually plays out without conflict.

How Thin Is The Thin Veneer Of Civilization?

What are your thoughts on the so called, ‘thin veneer of civilization’?

I typed this article a few years ago during 2019. Here we are in the 2nd half of 2021. I see it all getting worse. The veneer is getting thinner by the day.

As though we’re standing on a lake of thin ice in the winter as the splinters loudly crack and snap all around us while the ice begins to break…

The incredible and absolutely frightening tyranny all around the world, right now. Stunning. As we speak, Australia might be one of the most incredible examples. Though many others too. And it’s coming here…

I re-post this because I truly do not see a peaceful way out of all that is crumbling around us at this time. In this particular regard, I am going dark. The layers of the rotten stinking onion are peeling back… I advise that you recall the classic arcade game called ‘Whac-A-Mole’, and the consequences thereof.

[ Read: Survival Novels | Survival Fiction Best Reads ]

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87 Comments

  1. – Watch any class of Pre-K or kindergartners without the teacher present. just remember that is what humans will act like without adult supervision.

    – Papa

  2. Too many people think they have a right to things, like food, housing, and money.

    They go crazy when they don’t get what they feel is theirs, even if they don’t work for it.

    Hungry stupid people are dangerous

    They say we are 9 meals from TEOTWAWKI.

    I think this is true.

    You see it on the news every night

    1. Izzy,
      Yep… many think everything they are used to is a “right”… and I’m betting it’s a lot less than 9 meals. With so many people with so little food on hand, and total dependence on electricity and credit/debit/EBT cards I think there would be a panic as soon PDQ.

      1. I don’t doubt you, 9 meals sounds right, but we can go much longer. Hunger striking prisoners typically die after 45 days, I’ve been on a 14-day water fast and survived just fine, still fully functional and capable of pulling a trigger. If you are really overweight you can go without eating for a very long time with just some basic vitamins. I’m not recommending it, but just understand it will not be quick.

        So while it might start on day 4, it could last up to day 45.

  3. Yes, definitely a very thin and delicate veneer on people. One example is the people making total asses of themselves on Black Friday shopping events every year.

    Most people do not want to take responsibility for themselves and/or their actions. I have traveled on many airline flights over the years and was often amazed by how short tempered,ill behaved and totally obnoxious people quickly became over really trivial things.

    If our JIT delivery system of goods around the country would have a some hiccups , people would just fall apart. It would not be pretty.

    Nine meals away from TEOTWAWKI , It would not surprise me at all.

  4. We already see things deteriorating, never mind the general public, just watch CONgress

    1. If younger readers have never seen the movie “Lord of the Flies” it is highly recommended. Shows how quickly “civilized” can turn ugly when put in a bad situation.

  5. There are lots of examples. The Balkans in the 90s was my first firsthand experience where neighbors of 20-50 years started killing each other over religion and political differences.
    Civilization only lasts when there is comfort or during short periods of extreme discomfort. When people become uncomfortable and lose hope of becoming so then civilization breaks down.

    As messed up as things are or we think they are here civilization hasn’t broken down because the majority still sit on the couch, watch tv, listen to podcasts, drink beer and type away without fear of reprisal in the means of death or torture, still fed and with hope.

    I’m no different from that description. I still feel that there is hope under current conditions for improvement. I’m not willing to scrap everything, destroy life and burn it all down because I still think there is hope.

    1. Matt on Oklahoma;
      I hope your optimism is correct, but the older I get and the more I see of this Country’s radical thinking…….

    2. Matt I too hope your right. However I suspect like many on this list you are closer to 60 than 20 years old.

      Seasoned folks tend to still have some well ingrained CIVILization in them, often from Dad’s belt. We knew that there is a winner and there are 2nd place etc. Most of our younger folks who got “Participations Trophies” so no one “Lost” and never had more than a time out are easily swayed by sweet words “YOU Deserve IT”. Whatever “IT” is.

      Note I said MOST youngsters. Happily there are some well raised Civil young adults BUT sometimes I wonder if we HANDICAPPED them having to live in a mostly ME FIRST Lawless World.

      If you accept that “Normal” is what the masses do then We are abnormal as is our civil children.

      Be aware that most of your troubles will come from a 20 mile radii of your area. Know your neighbors and stay alert.

  6. Human technology is the source of our power and the source of our weakness and, most likely, the source of our extinction.

    In the not too distant past, people needed to work closely together to survive and knew how they each contributed to a shared goal, like bringing in the crop, or building a barn. They knew to come running when the church bell rang, even in the dead of night, rifle in one hand, fire bucket in the other. We were all much closer to each other…as we had to be…and social behavior evolved toward cooperation and mutual benefit.

    Today, our technological wizardry has allows huge numbers of people to live in very close proximity without the need of familiarity, cooperation, joint defense, a common creed, to survive. Hermits may live alone in the midst of millions.

    The terms of the old “Social Contract” have changed and are no longer ubiquitous in our communities. The fire, which used to melt us all together into a uniquely American cultural melting pot, now burns low and cultural fragmentation is increasing. Why make the effort to blend cultural differences into some workable mixture, when there is no need?

    Instead of bringing everyone together and evolving common ground relationships, people are being encouraged to identify with some social faction, to remain apart and distinct, and to amplify their differences for political gain, and to justify the extension of special “Rights,” exclusive THEM alone, to the detriment of all others.

    When we are not trying to melt together, we are pulling apart, and becoming weaker as a Nation, to the point where we become unable to preserve our Liberty.

    Thus, this is the exact reason people are now trained in “Diversity.” Not to evolve commonly shared values, but to preserve our differences, and, thereby, turn every imaginable cultural characteristic into its own Balkanized tribe, to take part in constant squabbling with every other tribe, for power.

    Now, the Socialist is happy, as such a dis-unified society of assorted cultural clans, is easier to conquer and the people easier to stampede toward the promise of a new, unified, and totally Just society, whose cultural dictates are enforced with bullets and bayonets upon the people, for the good of the people.

    1. Ision,
      You make a lot of important points. You cram a lot of people with different beliefs and backgrounds into cities (in particular) and indoctrinate everyone to believe that others are “out to get” them… and everyone pulls apart. The very seams of societal fabric are so different than they were generations ago – already strained and one little cut and the entire thing would tear open – maybe not in some smaller, tight-knit communities- but those would be few and far between.

      1. People are naturally violent, and naturally uneducated. Most are quite emotional and ignorant. Many are simply mentally ill.

        If Government thinks its job is to encourage social fragmentation, that Government shall evolve into Mob Rule. The strongest Mob will rule and shall have no problem enforcing their culture upon everyone with coercive force…which is exactly what Government is.

        The Monopoly Of Force.

  7. Seems the more “connected” people get the further they are apart.
    This “civilization” we are growing into has disconnected so very many much from reality.

    Start with a newborns fresh mind, what do we teach this child? Look at the “Cartoons” the movies later, now look at some of the “Games” they are exposed through all their lives.

    Add to this the instant gratification of “Modern Society”.
    Top it all with unlimited lack of responsibilities and add unlimited $$$$$.

    Society/Civilization as we (us old timers) knew it 50-100 years ago is gone, we now live in a world of selfishness, give-ma-dats and truly hateful people.
    Take one single convenience from the masses………. Need I say more?

    Yes!!!! There is an extremely thin veneer of civility, and every day one can see this openly disappearing, read or watch the News as the number of blatant murders, suicides, acts of violence, so-on that are exploding across the Country and the World.

    Heck, just drive a crowded Freeway during rush-hour and see how many other drivers want to ”take you out” just for driving 2 MPH slower than they are…..

    Now imagine the Cell-Phone services (Smart Phones) going down for a week…… OR when Trump gets re-elected in 2020….

    1. NRP
      I had a 20 something lecturing me on how the newest thugga movies are no different than those violent old John Wayne movies….

      There are no words.

      I just walked away, not worth even engaging such stupidity.

      1. Tommyboy
        The word is “Ethics”, plain & simple.

        They will have to look it up in a dictionary IF they know how to do that.

    2. NRP,
      Good to “see” you!
      And could not agree more! People will get out of their cars and beat the crap out of one another over getting cut-off, or losing a parking place, or someone going too slow. Had guy flip me off the other day after cutting me off while I was driving full speed – because I just shook my head (which he saw in his rear view mirror and decided to answer after being the aggressor). Nice… his mother would be so proud.

      People are desensitized to violence – movies, video games, the Internet – heck, just watching the news. At my house, the local news is known as the “murder report”… and that’s just the local news network. A couple of kids (now grown) in the extended family grew up playing Grand Theft Auto and who knows what else… then their parents wondered why the kids would beat the crap our of each other and were super-aggressive as teens. Didn’t take genius to put 2 & 2 together on that one. Thankfully they both seem to be growing out of it.

      I know we’ve talked about it countless times here in the last few years – but turn off the power, stop taking credit/debit/EBT cards in an outage, snarl traffic and close the chain stores that rely on electricity to process purchases – and people will be in full frenzy in no time. Especially if no one is communicating to let people know the power will be back on shortly… it will get ugly real quick. Sigh.

  8. People are essentially animals. At the base, that’s what we are (I’ll leave the discussion of our spiritual aspect for another time). Civilization fights against that animal, but up until the last few generations there was always another place for the animal to go when under pressure. Always a new frontier for those who didn’t fit the “civilized” mold.

    There are just as many people now who don’t fit the mold, and the mold is tighter and more constricting, forcing even more to the fringes of civilization with nowhere to go. Yes, they lash out at the slightest excuse.

    The Roman empire put them in the army. The Chinese empire killed them. The British empire deported them. Our society seems determined to celebrate the animal, even while squeezing the trap tighter around its behavior. Not a good combination.

  9. Ken, We are on the brink of civil war in the U.S. 3 months ago me an my children were “victims” of a Road Rage -er…

    Long story short a SJW attempted to ram my $3k 89 suburban off the road with my children inside using his $40k+ plus new dodge charger.

    This SJW jumps out at starts to come out at me and my kids luckily we were at a standoff at about 25ft.

    Lets just say he went from “im gonna kill ya” mode to whining and groveling “I’m going to call the police on you” at which point i replied to the scum sucker” please do call the police! Back off I have kids in this car and I will defend them.”

    I think this guy flipped out on me because i was driving an old model truck and he thought that i was well just a ignorant (read my handle above.)

    It was a tough situation all because I made a mistake and got in his way in the pass lane to make an upcoming left turn off the highway. Talk about a thin veneer of civility it is completely gone as far as I am concerned!

    Also as he was approaching the truck I never took my truck out of gear 8000lbs aimed right at him with just the break applied could took my foot right off of it.

    – Blessed are the meek for they make easy targets!

    1. Kinda like the guy yelling at me shaking his fists and gassing his engine when i stopped at a yield sign the other day,
      It didnt make me pull out any faster, but i did click open my knife so when he stuck his hand in my window he would pull back a stump,,,, its happened before, pretty sure it will happen again, people are un civil and think they are the only ones on the road

  10. Working for the water department for a major city, i see it first hand. Things get real ugly in seconds after turning off the water to a customers house. It gives me a first hand experience and reinforces the mind set. And thats not a life or death situation yet.

  11. I work at Wally-World! Need I say more!! See the dregs of society everyday and yes the people of walmart do exist!! We are in a heap-o-trouble!!

    1. – But the pictures of the Walmartians are some of the funniest things on the internet!

      – Papa S.

  12. Thin veneer… and getting thinner all the time.

    There are so many people in metropolitan areas. Too many vehicles, too many people, and too many people wanting everything “right now”. One the whole, society is a group of spoiled people. People too young to know (and improperly educated) about the horrors of war, to learn about people who had to help each other survive against mother nature, too self-indulged to know what it is like to do without the basics. People who think everything they want is really a “need” and a “right”.

    All these people screaming for free health care are going to be most unhappy if they get their wish and are ill and can’t get care for days/weeks/months. People who think things are “free” and have no idea what the costs will really be (financial and otherwise). People too ignorant to know that if something goes really, truly wrong the .g o v will NOT be able to care for everyone.

    Most people have an incredibly strong sense of entitlement – that belief that they can do anything, have anything, and anything they want they should just be able to get… usually not through hard work or sacrifice… instant gratification is the order of the day.

    I really do hope for the best (at least in my lifetime) but in my heart I know that it would take almost nothing to unravel the entire thing. Dark thoughts at the end of a long day.

  13. Long ago and far away a group of young women at the church I attended went off to study at a very rigorous bible college. Caught up with some of them a year later to find out how it went. One complained that it was all rules, how bleak the daily routine was, and that the frustrations never let up. For her it was an external imposition to be resisted at every turn. Another told me that she accepted her responsibility for choosing to be there, internalized the discipline inherent in the organization, had a great time, and learned a lot. I was young then too and her words have stayed with me.

    I realized that I had learned to internalize the discipline at my mother’s knee. Chores come before meals. Private property is to be respected. Looking out for others should be my first response in any situation. Practice may not make perfect, but it will set a pattern. Thinking and considering the consequences should come before acting, esp before acting or speaking out of one’s frustrations.

    For many it seems civilization is a nearly transparent veneer, it’s so thin. For others it is a high quality finish that penetrates deeply, ages beautifully, and is very durable. And it’s our choice how we behave when we think no is looking or no one cares. To go all bible-y “By their fruit shall you know them.”

  14. In the 1980’s I found out how thin that veneer of civilization can be when I met 4 guys who had been hiking without food for the prior 2 days.

    They were hiking out of the backcountry after their food was taken by a bear within a National Park. They asked me for food and after tossing them a bag of granola I had, one of them started saying that they could bum-rush me and take all of my food.

    I agreed with them and reached back in and pulled out my 5 shot revolver and flat badge. I had them hand me their wallets and removed their drivers licenses prior to the long walk out to a waiting patrol vehicle. I also had a radio with me at the time.

    Tactically, I was a bit nervous knowing that I would have to make every shot count in event of the bum-rush so I told the mouthy one making the threats that I would gut shoot him first because it is a large target, he is the closest and we were 18+ miles away from the nearest road.

    No one liked the idea of being gut shot in the middle of nowhere to die a slow-lingering death. We all walked out with no further challenge to my temporary position of advantage.

    Since that time, I have tried to think about increasing my firepower in a small lightweight package to act as a force-multiplier. Thus today, I am a big fan of the Clock handguns and the Clock clones because I have been in situations where the threat comes in multiples. I just had to wait a few years for Glocks to be shipped over into the CONUS.

    Rural patrol also meant that I was solo in a car or truck with backup being an hour away or in the form of a second weapon on my person somewhere.

    All of these young men were from the 213 area code. I never saw them again and I never went to see them either.

    1. I hope you were munching on candy bars loud enough for them to hear as you hiked back to the road.

  15. Listening to a segment on Rush’s show yesterday, he played a clip of Joe Biden at a town hall meeting. This will not be verbatim by as close as I can recall her words to Joe. “I can not live in a country run by an unduly elected president”, then she goes onto spout how that man is not following the Constitution of the United States.

    It was sad to hear how indoctrinated this woman was, for she was well spoken and truly believe her diatribe. This demonstrates how the liberal media has slowly brought the lifeforms on this plant down to being ’emotionally controlled’, no longer using the ability to process fact from fiction. The veneer is thinner than most realize, as we approach the year 2020 I do believe it could possible become a chaotic mad house of violence.

  16. I worked many years as a paramedic, in a medium/large city. As all LEO and even firefighters know, there is a very ugly underbelly to humanity. The filth and chaos some folks choose to live in, is disgusting. The beast comes out for folks under pressure. Most don’t handle it well. When things “go wrong” it is never their fault and they are looking for someone to blame. Part of it is human nature, but much of it is entitlement attitudes learned over time.

    Please remember, in stressful situations where police/fire/ems are called, those folks have adrenaline too. Experienced responders learn to handle it well, but don’t push them too hard. Remember, you called them to handle a situation you were unable to handle alone. When you call police/fire/ems you are giving up control of the situation. Please act accordingly. Don’t begrudge them for doing things in a way you would not. They likely have considerations, you haven’t even thought of.

    Yea, there is a very thin veneer of civility. The beast beneath, is in all of us.

  17. Anyone who even remotely considers himself to be a survivalist or prepper agrees that civilization is merely a veneer. Anyone who even remotely considers himself to be a survivalist or prepper must be prepared to “roof Korean.” To not be willing/able to do so merely places the person in the prey category.

    “Lord of the Flies” involved young boys. With a complete breakdown of modern society, much of humanity will find itself reaching that same point, some sooner, others later.

  18. Is the veneer thin???
    Does Black Friday come to mind??
    The violence that happens to get their kids sale items on the new gadgets, the 72 inch TV, the newest phone?
    The violence that will occur in a real Shtf will be horrendous. And some, most here have seen it occur.
    What bothers me, is the “quiet” places, where things are not too off keel, when things happen. Things are fairly calm……
    What happens when the REAL Shtf hits??

    Prep on….not liking what I’m seeing/reading lately……

  19. I’ve noticed this about humans:

    They rarely want to die.
    They want to avoid discomfort at just about any cost to others that they think they can get away with.
    They want more regardless of what they have.
    They can justify nearly anything to avoid personal accountability for themselves and their actions.
    They don’t want an opportunity that they didn’t feel entitled to because they don’t want to feel obligated to act on said opportunity they didn’t explicitly want.
    They don’t usually realize that when they are trying desperately to be the good guy they may accidentally become the bad guy.

    Lastly, boolits change perspective on all the above, mostly due to the first one.

    So basically I’m saying yes. And to buy boolits. Haha.

  20. Many will say we never saw the violence coming. As tax payers continue to leave certain urban centers and as each faction of society continue to group in with their own, political, financial, race, religion, … the animosity against others increases.

    What we end up with is a population that will erupt in violence in certain urban areas while most others in the country sit on their couches and watch tv. It will be the greatest shock when the breakout occurs and rampaging gangs come looking for their share.

    The time when there is enough critical mass to get 10,000 or so, motivated to violence is the big question but inevitable.

  21. This is no joke what I am telling you it was a story which happened in area I grew up in recently on the radio news.

    One vehicle was tailgating another vehicle, so the first car tapped its brakes letting the driver behind know they were to close. Vehicle #2 goes around vehicle #1 where by they slow down causing Vehicle #1 to be the tailgater. Then Vehicle #2 pulls into the secondary lane so they can pull up long side of vehicle #1. Apparently words were yelled at each other all while driving. Yes, I know dumb arses…. OK… It gets even better!

    Vehicle #2 pulls out a pistol(thankfully a pelt pistol)shoots driver of vehicle #1 in the side of his face. Then speeds off. Vehicle #1 goes home calls the police and medical services, the local leo’s request security camera footage from the neighboring homeowners since vehicle #2 went down that street.

    Yes, they found the vehicle & the driver who shot the other person. We are not finished while arresting him, his girlfriend comes up to the police yelling & screams nasty words—spitting on them. Telling them they had NO right to arrest him, it was his RIGHT to shoot the other person for being an idiot.

    Yes that is the SJW’s(social justice warriors) that have been raised by our educational system, video games, an lack of parenting under the welfare indoctrination. We are in deep pooooh. 🤦😣

  22. This article from 2 years ago, and look where we are now….
    Imagine 2 years from now.
    Good luck World, you’re going to need it.

  23. What if….

    What if the chaos in Afghanistan was not because of Biden’s ineptness? What if this is going as planned?….

    It appears to me that everything Biden has done since taking office has weakened the U.S. both internally and abroad….and benefited China…

    The dollar is on the verge of collapse….our borders are overwhelmed…our military is in disarray….our infrastructure collapsing (the $3.5 trillion infrastructure bill spends money on everything but infrastructure)…now, this Afghan debacle has destroyed the trust of our allies….

    China has been preparing for this day…and are poised to step in with money and promises to deliver stability…and why would anyone trust the U.S. anymore?…

    Maybe…just maybe…everything we are seeing was planned out and going as planned….

    1. I think you may be on to something here. We can only watch to see how it plays out, and pray. The time will come to remove the corrupt from our government.

      1. if we can hold out for 15 more months things may change for the better. i don’t know. thats a long time for false flags from the Gov. to happen, and false info from the MSM . but the leftists dems. everywhere are already doing face palms on Biden and Harris. the Dems are in full damage control now and it’s not working out well for them. people on both sides are seeing them for what they are now. totally inept. most people have short attention spans and only look at today. in 15 months most will have forgotten what is happening now, unless things get worst. some just don’t care about anything but their own government subsidies and entitlements.
        they sit at home and eat cheeto’s and watch TV and post on sites like this all day when they are able to go outside and make a contribution to society.
        patriotism is going to be the new “woke” in our country, i hope and pray.
        people are tired of this stuff

    2. Dennis:
      With all due respect Sir.
      Your “What/If” is wayyyyyy to close to the truth its frightening.
      BUT. With that said I would agree 1000%.

      Life is good on Lightning Point for sure.

      1. NRP & Blue,
        While the world in general is going through major changes, there will be isolated places where all this change will not have much affect. These places are where most of us here have established ourselves. For good reason. What change does happen here, we have either prepared for, or will be able to adapt too without much effort. Life is good and we should be enjoying it daily.

      2. NRP & Blue/Dennis/Minerjim/nyscout
        Dennis hit on the beginning of the subject matter.
        Now I pose a pondering question to all of you. Why did they make our military leave all the infrastructure such as planes, guns, ammo, hum V’s, and other working military equipment for the ripe taking of the Taliban?
        As I heard today on the radio, Ol b’s buddy in the land of porcelain possible gave him orders to leave it in place that it would be well taken care of & used. Who cares if it was our money that purchased said military equipment. The least they could have done was torch it, by disobeying an illegal order from a lying bag of dung. mho What happened to the scotched earth policy???

        1. AC
          I think they screwed up this retreat so they could create a bunch of hostages. That way they can ” ligimately ” give billions to the Taliban “as ransom”, just like Obammy did with Iran. Leave it to the democrats to find a way throw other people’s money away for the “progressive cause”. I better stop before I say too much.

        2. AC,

          I’ve seen it suggested that it was left for the Afghan fighters we trained. Not so sure I buy that story. Closing the base that could have provided support for evac, ahead of the evac? Stinks to high heaven. More to consider: We can’t manage to get our people out, though other countries are going through the city rounding their’s up to get them to safety, but we can bring 20some thousand Afghan nationals to a few military bases stateside. One group will be taken to Ft. McCoy, about an hour from where I used to live in WI. And then what? Wonder how vetted they are. I’m sure they’re being extra careful, just like they are at the southern border. Our government will make extra sure not to let any dangerous people into the country, I’m sure. Just like they’re being very careful to keep the cartel out, right? Spicy times, indeed.

          1. Not to butt in Farmgirl but if the GOAL is to reduce America into a mass of violent Chaos what better than to bring in folks who have been raised in Violent Chaos and at least some of them given the pictures I see of Military Aged Males in those plane loads ANGRY with the Great Satan America?

            Seems I remember us discussing Iranian Terror Cells some years ago on MSB. We were quite concerned about how soft a target we were for a few well motivated terrorists.

            The Sock Puppet’s handlers seem determined to reduce the USA into a 3rd world or worse situation defunding-demoralizing the Police, catch and release of violent criminals (DID you Notice that the Taliban ALSO releases criminals to enlist them?) and making our military into the laughingstock of the world.

            Go short US Dollars, go long trusted friends, skills, tool, seeds, Chaos Kit repair items like sheet plastic, nails and such, go very long storage foods and medical.

            I doubt very much we will ever see as much useful foods and stuff at the prices we complain about Today before this Fall.

            Winter is coming and the storm is here. Wish you were my neighbor Farmgirl. I’m not half the market gardener you are. I’m probably better with street dentistry and ditch medicine but not the best gardener.

            Pray for wisdom and ACT on it. Tempus fugit.

        3. I read a quickly disappearing blip a few days back that they brought in a LOT of supplies in June.

        4. AC,

          Could be the total ineptness of the generals in charge…could be the Biden handler’s orders to cut and run on too short of notice…could be…and this is the most chilling thought……

          Remember way back during the U.S. intervention in Balkan civil wars…Clinton unveiling the super secret stealth aircraft…one of which mysteriously, somehow got shot down by small arms fire…and crashed in the back yard of the Chinese embassy…was quickly whisked off to China…and suddenly, China has it’s own versions?…

          Read yesterday that at least one Apache attack helicopter (the most advanced helicopter in the world) has been abandoned in Afghanistan…I just now attempted to confirm that again, but find no mention of helicopters left behind except a few CH-46’s…but if the report I read about the abandoned Apache is true…that is a huge gift to help repay the 5 billion dollar “forgivable loan” the Bank of China made to Hunter Biden’s “company”…..a bungled retreat ordered by a bumbling fool serves as good cover….

          ….of course…as always…take anything I say with a grain of salt…I’m just a simple minded old fool living back in the hills…..

        5. They always leave that kind of equipment. They say it’s cheaper to replace it than ship it back

          1. Poorman
            ACDH saw to it when gifts were left behind before N came to a close. He was always kind enough to leave a gift package for the repentant. He wanted to make sure that they got a bang out of their surprise packages.
            This was pure poppy cock about cheaper to leave behind. It could have been given with the intent it was meant to be received, and that is all I will say. The rest I will leave for each of you to surmise.

          2. AC – Yeah….. that little dose of c4 in the random case sure gave pause to the surviving clowns wanting to trip a trigger from that batch.

    3. NRP, Blue, Minerjim,

      Ever wonder what it would take to knock the total disaster going on at the southern border out of the headlines?…

      OK…maybe that one was too easy…

      Wonder what it will take to knock Afghanistan out of the headlines?…..

      Scared yet?

      1. Dennis:
        In a week Afghanistan will be yesterday’s news. Just as the Border and Covid is now.
        What will it be???? Think of the stupidest thing the gov can do and poof there ya go.

        1. NRP & Blue,
          Oh! You mean Bidet is going to negotiate with aliens to bring world peace with their UFOs? “Bread and circus” is not working great for them right now. Like Dennis, I suspect this ‘clown show’ administration may very well have nefarious underpinnings.

          1. I wonder if something else is up.
            Something so big they think they need all those soldiers back fast.

            Yea, billions in weapons just left behind.. that will be used against us and allies.

    4. Dennis – I agree. Problem is….. folks don’t know who the ultimate Planner is. They didn’t read the Book.

  24. For me, the veneer is gone; lies, slandering, fighting (both verbal and physical), ignoring laws, doing what you want when you want, public kangaroo courts, on and on…to name a few things.

    The only option is be ready to survive when the ill-intent come your way.

  25. My wife and I spent this morning at the range sighting in a new rifle and making sure others were operating properly. My sphere of give a sh#t has shrunk to just my county and the surrounding mountain area since there is no need to waste time worrying about where this country or the states are headed and the average, ignorant, oblivious citizens will soon get what they justly deserve. Those that have prepared, planned, trained and live in remote rural areas will have a chance to weather the coming storms. Those that haven’t and live anywhere near a suburb, town or urban area will be thrown into a horrific nightmare they could have never imagined.

    1. Romeo Charlie,
      i agree 10,000 percent. they have made their beds, let them lay on them. the sad thing is that they will wonder (what went wrong) and have no clue.
      can anyone imagine living in a coastal east or west coast metropolitan area in the next few years. i can’t, ill just watch the carnage on the news and laugh at the fools and hope they don’t come into my area” it won’t end well”,
      if they come here they were lost : )
      popcorn and peanuts watching the circus. if you think the last year and a half was something, you ain’t seen nothing yet. it’s just getting warmed up

      1. nyscout,
        So true. They had the opportunity to prepare for the coming winter but instead chose like the grasshopper. I have zero sympathy, empathy or care for their dismal future. Those that put their faith in the government to take care of them will be screaming the loudest when that government is gone or can no longer provide. Just like the Afghans that were assured, believed and trusted the US would take care of them if they helped us fight the Taliban which the US created. Now they are being abandoned and considered collateral damage by an evil and corrupt US government bureaucracy that considers it’s own military as toilet paper and cannon fodder.

        Rule #1. Never, ever trust any government
        Rule #2 If you think the government is offering you something good…reread Rule # 1.

  26. I find it a little worrisome that our military is so..inept. How did this happen? And I think it is far too late to end the corruption in government. Not now, not ever. The swamp owns it.

    1. DJ5280,
      Any organization especially the military is only as good as it’s leaders. Unfortunately Obama purged the true senior military leaders and promoted select politically correct and liberal junior officers to replace them. This Afghanistan debacle is just the tip of the incompetent iceberg and the real showing will come when China invades Taiwan while Russia invades the Ukraine and Crimea. At the same time, China and Russia could take down the US telecommunications and power grid for a couple of weeks which would completely devastate the US economy and threaten to turn North Korea lose on South Korea and Japan if the US tries to retaliate. America has been shown to be a toothless, corrupt, paper tiger with a geriatric, incompetent moron at the wheel.

      1. RC,,,,,,,you nailed it ,,,,!! USA ,RIP ,,,,,those of you dependent on the government trough had better shut up or find a way to make do ,what will life be like without uncle suger,,will you kiss the ring ? THE NIGHT IS COMING ,

          1. AC , what will be the name of the new independent country ? That Jefferson will be in ,,,,with Seattle area and Portland vaporized by someone ,restarting of life will come with a fresh new air. And anew capitol in how about in lewiston , I can hear it now ,,crackpot ideas ,,maybe not ,things are going to end badly,after its over what we do will matter,,,,,,I CAN REBUILD ,,,,THEY CAN’T ,,,,,,more from atlas shrugged

  27. Next thing you know…the way Biden is going…we’ll be negotiating with terrorists……

    1. Dennis,
      Seems we already are. I just watched a snippet of today’s fiasco of a press conference. We are talking with the people who have taken over Afghanistan, and relying on them to allow our countrymen to pass through the checkpoints and get into the airport. While other nations are out getting their own people picked up, we are saying we don’t have the resources to do so ourselves (even though we have brought 1000’s of troops back to the area)?

      We sat down at a table with Iran and tried to restart the terrible agreement we had with them. They have got to be one of the largest state sponsors of terrorism on our planet.

      I’m just beside myself at this point. I knew this was going to be a weak administration that would damage our nation, but I had no idea we would be so humiliated on world-wide mass and social media as we run from a bunch of guys using our equipment to chase us. There can’t be a single world leader who trusts the word of anyone in our administration at this point. Who can blame them?

      All I can think about is how to prepare for whatever comes at us next. We look weak, confused, disorganized and untrustworthy. We are in big trouble.

  28. TPTB have realized over the past couple years that proclaiming a “public health crisis” is an effect imposition of quasi-martial law and a very effective end run around the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution, and the aggregation of federal and state law. In the name of “protecting” they install themselves not as the murderous tyrants they really are, but as compassionate parents doing what’s best for the broken children in their care. .. .. .. ..

    In some places, “racism” and gun ownership now fall under the purview of public health. You-Name-It-phobia will be declared a public health emergency soon. Failed, failing, or nonexistent infrastructure will be given an expanded definition that incorporates it as a public health crisis. Education, roads, health infrastructure, child care, everything that they crammed into the infrastructure bill will be redefined as a public health concern. But not failed small businesses, rampant crime, or bloated government. .. .. ..

    If we think they have been abrogating free speech, as well as other freedoms in the Bill of Rights and the other amendments, just wait. It will take the Supremes, or perhaps even a constitutional amendment, to ensure that “public health” cannot trump endowed rights. And thus they set themselves up as gods, dismissive of the Creator’s intent. .. .. ..

    Gonna get spicy, and that on top of a looming years-long global famine. Get prepared.

    1. AM,
      Not counting on the Supremes for anything. And, even if they take a constitutional tack in rulings, who knows if this rogue group running things will pay any attention. Like the rent moratorium ruled unlawful but still continuing.

      Spicy indeed.

    2. Excellent comments Anony Mee.
      For years now there is a “soft” Martial Law in place and is getting worse. Prepare, yes but prepare for a gradual, slow-moving march to Martial Law. When the local LEO or private security forces start posting armed security guards at the local Kroger Food Market, we have arrived. I trust that it is already happening…you can’t see them…they are blending in. Martial Law is when “all” individual rights and the Bill of Rights are suspended. How can the Bill of Rights be suspended? I thought that our rights are guaranteed under the U.S. Constitution. Silly me.

      The Department of Homeland Security thinks otherwise and is preparing and/or prepared for Martial Law. In addition, the current Marxist government in place right now is preparing for Martial Law. You can tell by their body language, the choice of words when speaking and their general attitude toward the public. Remember 6 January 2021.

  29. This previous in response to Pioneer Woman’s comment: “I do believe we are all intelligent enough to make our own decisions. That being said, the warning I gave about another lockdown coming still stands. I got the info from an extremely reputable source asking about an impending public health ORDER.” .. .. ..

    A friend just called to say there is a planned state-wide gathering of first responders and the public up at Snoqualmie Pass (WA) tomorrow to work on a plan to address the guv’s mandate for all of them, and educators as well, to be fully vaccinated or lose their jobs. Prayers up for cool heads and effective plans.

  30. When we were all “Americans” and not the multi hyphenated sub cultural people we have become we had a common culture. Yes there were sub cultures but the common one was how we all got along. Now the subcultures have become the way we are divided and that division is used for power. (Politics anyone?)

    I have met good people of all races and ethnicities and bad ones too. I have met good people married to other races and have no issues with them. Nor I hope them with me. I have made mistakes and so have others, that is to say I am human and so are they.

    If/when the shtf for real we will sorely miss our “American” common culture. Tribalism really not a good thing for a society to be based on, IMHO. It allows us to “de-humanize” each other and that is a very bad thing.

  31. Have not posted in a while, just been paying attention to what is written.
    Oldhomesteader,sometimes I have to read your post two or three times and then light dawn’s!
    Dennis, wish our mountains were closer!
    Not trying to say everyone else are not as well respected. All here post the same intelligence and good advice.
    We are in a bad place and it is not getting any better. I hope that we will all be here when we come out on the other side and with luck and good fortune we will find this group again.
    Good luck to all,I feel we will be shut down soon, in the meantime I will still be here picking up all the tidbits of knowledge that you put out!

  32. A thin veneer of civilization. We’ve all been blessed to live in a country that was founded on Biblical principles. As long as we lived in a society built on that foundation, we all benefitted regardless of whether we individually followed Jesus and lived according to the scriptures or not. With the dismantling of anything connected to God’s laws, there is an opening for corruptness, and a void to be filled by those with selfish motives, whether it be for money, power, or prestige.

    A free society can only by maintained by self- restrained individuals, those with a strong sense of right and wrong, high standards of morality, or those transformed by the power of Christ and compelled to live a life pleasing to Him. When we lose self-restraint, it will be imposed from without.

    So, first our leaders will allow law breaking, and when we cry out against it, they will have created the opportunity to come in with a heavyhanded approach that will strip us of our remaining freedom. There’s a reason for everything they’re doing.

  33. There are many people here that think differently than me in many ways, yet many of the big ideas that most of us agree on seem simply universal. I was always sure that, should I run into many of you in real life, most of you would not give me the time of day. Because I am non-Christian. A hippie. Because I am a lesbian. Because I go to Starbucks every weekend, believe that white privilege is a real thing, stand up for the underdog…the list goes on. I pride myself on constantly reevaluating my own thoughts and belief systems, and realize my own biases. I believe that “civilization” NEEDS to fall away to some degree so we can all get back to our true selves. So much of civilization dulls us, makes us “comfortable” and reliant. Although differences obviously exist, nature or God saw to it that we were born with skills that help us survive, but the system doesn’t want us to know how powerful we are, so it flashes ads and mind controlling messages in our faces to make us simultaneously believe we have little power and that we need all kinds of things that we really do not. Despite our differences, I hope others can see how much the world is changing for the better, despite current BS issues we still have to fight, we all have things in common. We can challenge ourselves when we think someone is stupid because they think differently than we do…while we do not and should not allow just anyone into our inner circle, I hope we are all seeing that we all struggle with this thing called being human. Although I sound like all love and light, trust me, I also believe that the planet needs a massive cleansing. I proudly like my dark side too. I guess I’m just asking everyone to take a moment and appreciate that lots of folks these days, coming from very different backgrounds, mindsets, and categories, are closer together in base values than some recognize. Sending blessings and thanks to all here.

      1. Because so many of us seem to refuse to take BS. Because we need to “reveal” (although it feels blatantly obvious to some of us) the disgusting things the system is doing. Because, in my opinion, we need to do away with “the system” and get back to more natural life. Obviously, there is a lot of pain and suffering. I never mean to discount that. But, to an extent, some folks are choosing that, whether it is conscious or not.

    1. lovelypoet,
      you are right about one thing- we would not give you the time of day or offer any help.
      good luck with your lifestyle, your gonna need it

    2. Hello lovelypoet, I respectfully disagree that “white privilege” is a thing. There is no “Puerto Rican” privilege, Colombian privilege or black privilege in Africa. The concept of white privilege is used to destroy economies and countries from within, without firing a shot. Make the different groups of people attack each other, the elites need only sit back and wait.

  34. Ah, yes, people awakening, that is definitely better, and true awakening, not woke BS. Like lots of folks say “red pilled”

    I didnt think you meant all the crazy stuff going on being better, wanted to make sure though, never can tell now.

    Back to basics or KISS, it can be difficult, so much and so many around us want to exert their beliefs on us, its sad really

    1. That was for Lovely Poet,

      I want to add, anyone not aiming for a more wholistic/natural life is going to be in for a rude awakening. Its a lofty goal to aim for but progress not perfection is good enough.

      1. Had to look KISS up….had not heard that one. Progress toward a more natural lifestyle is exactly what I have been working toward. Thanks Kulafarmer.

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