PREPS

Medicines Best for Barter after System Collapse?

best-medications

Hypothetical situations for the sake of preparedness are good to ponder.

Let’s think about medicines. The medicines that would be good to have on hand for YOU, and/or for barter & trade.

Lets say that you are living in a time of societal collapse. People are no longer buying and selling with dollars as a medium of exchange. Instead they are looking for value in tangible items that may be needed.

The situation is such that whatever you have, is all you have. If you want or need anything else, you’re going to have to barter and trade for it.

Related: The Most Valuable Items For Barter After The Collapse

Which specific medications and medicines might be valuable or particularly useful for barter and trade?

This might include over-the-counter medicine or prescription medicines.

A few years ago I asked our readers here on Modern Survival Blog to provide their opinion on this topic. I have taken that data and have come up with a list of medicines based on those results.

NOTE:
This is not medical advice.
Be aware of expiration dates.
Be cautious of all warnings and potential side effects.

The Survival Medicine Handbook:
THE essential guide for when medical help is NOT on the way

1. Ibuprofen (NSAID anti-inflammatory, pain relief)
2. Imodium (treatment for diarrhea)

3. The following are tied for 3rd place:
– Antibiotic ointments
– Antibiotics
– Aspirin (pain, fever, inflammation)
– Benadryl (Antihistamine)
– Tylenol (Acetaminophen for pain, fever)

4. These were more or less 4th place:
– Borax (Anti-fungal, other uses)
– Caffeine (e.g. NoDoz tabs)
– Claritin (Allergy)
– Mary Jane
– Sleep Aids

5. Medicines in 5th place:
– Aleve (NSAID – longer lasting 12 hr dosage/tab)
– Antacids
– Aspercreme (topical pain relief)
– Burn ointment
– Decongestants
– Dramamine (nausea)
– Epsom Salts (muscle relief)
– Gas X
– Midol (menstrual cramps)
– Naproxin (NSAID anti-inflammatory)
– Peroxide (infection)
– Prescription pain meds

 

My Opinion on Best Barter Value Medicines

Modern medicine has enabled human lifespan way beyond what was once ‘normal’. You might say that we’ve doubled it. How many people comparatively lived past 40 “way back when…”? Some, yes, but many didn’t.

Antibiotics

Certainly Antibiotics may be one of the biggest factors, along with many other technological advancements in medicine and procedures.

With that said, if we’re talking about ‘value’ during a post-collapse period, I would put Antibiotics up there at #1. Why? Because it’s literally life saving under many conditions and scenarios. An infection can kill you. It used to all the time…

Life Saving Medicines

There are other life saving or life sustaining drugs and medicines too. Some require refrigeration (which may be gone or limited under a SHTF scenario).

So any med that may be considered life sustaining or life saving may be up there in the top spots for ‘value’ (for those who may need it).

Ibuprofen & Acetaminophen

If we’re looking at statistical demand (quantity) I would estimate that general pain relief medicines will be in high demand. In my opinion, Ibuprofen (e.g. Advil and generics) may be the biggest mover. Followed by Acetaminophen (Tylenol and generics).

Prescription Pain Meds

As far as value, prescription pain meds will surely be valuable. That would include for the addicted (who probably won’t last long after SHTF) and for those who genuinely may need them for pain management.

What Else?

The reader poll list above has Imodium up near the top. Given that there will be large scale ‘food issues’ and people not properly preparing foods in a safe manner, a anti-diarrhea medicine may be of value.

I do not disagree with any of the list above. I might shift the order a bit, but I believe that just about ‘any’ medicine will be valuable for barter after the collapse.

It is a good exercise though to determine what might be more beneficial or valuable than others after the system collapses (which hopefully never happens!).

What’s your opinion?

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112 Comments

  1. Ken nailed it! My thought is that this should be everyone’s checklist anyway, then have extras for barter. Not to be an excessive cheapskate or anything, but most of this stuff can be bought at the dollar store, whether for one’s own use or barter. Or get fancy and buy your own supplies from your neighborhood drug store, and the barter stuff at the dollar store. YMMV!

  2. I agree that antibiotics would likely be #1 item in demand after a ‘collapse’. Wonder how long after the collapse these items on the list would be available? At what point would people start returning to natural, ‘folk’, herbal remedies, and where they would fit on this barter list?

  3. We keep many of these on hand. I never thought of them as a ‘barter’ item tho. Interesting. But I have a son allergic to many antibiotics, and I would not barter anything he CAN take. Not for anything. And I would include powdered Gatorade with the diarrhea meds. Or at least a recipe for homemade electrolytes. Great topic!

  4. Im going to stick with the discussion the other day,
    NOT BARTERING
    Its like feeding a stray dog, feed em once and you will never get rid of them…..

    1. Understand your point, but respectfully disagree. If we are down to barter that means high likelihood that currency is no longer valid. How are you going to get stuff you need if you don’t barter?

    2. That is your choice of course.

      This article however is geared towards conversation about ‘best’ medicines to have on hand for after the system collapse (if it actually ever does – although hopefully not!).

      I used the bartering concept to help inspire discussion about perceived or real value of various meds. It’s not a discussion about whether or not one would actually barter or trade. Hope that makes sense… (a good topic for a separate article though)

    3. Tommyboy;
      Unfortunately some day you may be in the need for something, like ohhhhhh let’s say Antibiotics after you cut yourself with a rusty hunk of iron, yet you absolutely refuse to Barter….. ???

      But hopefully we all will never know.
      Just saying “Never” is a long time when we don’t know what’s coming down the Pike.

      1. Ok, fine,,,
        So witch is it,
        A couple days ago everybody was saying barter bad, bad, bad,,,
        Some were ok with it
        So what is it?
        So you barter a few dozen cans of beans with a guy for a course of antibiotics, they follow you unbeknownst to you, later that night they kill you, take your sweety, and all your stuff and the antibiotics you traded for,,,,
        Good trade huh

        1. Tommyboy
          In a REAL SHTF situation, every single decision will be made at that time of decisiveness of need. Rather it is a barter situation, fight or flight, bug in or bug out, kill or be killed. Doesn’t really matter right now. Those situation will be dealt with as they arise in a SHTF. One at a time. Right now, all we have are opinions.

      2. Let that sink in for a bit,,,,
        Reality,,, WHO KNOWS!
        Perhaps a while after it will be a possibility, last time i took antibiotics was 7 years ago,
        Ive got some,
        IMHO, im going to sit this out because i dont know enough about them to say whats best, ill trade somebody i know a handfull of ibuprofin for some jerky or some squashes or something, but i really am not putting a whole lot of thought into the what ifs.
        My AO is much much different than anything yall are exposed to, people here, most people here will realize the full ramifications of a SHTF moment pretty quickly. There will always be bad, but overall i think we will be fine, people figure it out. I think ill sit thiese conversations out as i really dont have anything constructive to add so off to grout tile and do some shop work i go,
        Honestly, im sick of the news, am tired of the doom n gloom, tired of hashing over the what ifs,,, ive been doing this much before i discovered these sorts of sites, its a lifestyle.

        Its a beautiful cool clear day, 75, barely any clouds, i have tons of projects to work on, im not going to go hungry, so far the truck is still in my driveway and my shops are full of supplies to do whatever i feel like doing,,,
        I think ill dwell in the here and now and leave be the theoretical masturbation for a bit.

        1. Tommyboy;
          Hence the problem, so far “What/If” and hope like hell that don’t change.
          Really don’t want to see a “Light’s Out” in my lifetime, would be bad for the job… hehehe
          Other than that, as you said it’s a “Lifestyle” and yes it’s sort of interesting to see the input from others here.
          BTW, I’m betting I’ve not done the Anti’s for better than 30 years, but like you I still got a bottle or 5 sitting around, Why ya ask, just cause I can I’m thinking.

        2. Tommyboy;
          PS: I still think Bartering is a bad idea (especially Ammo), unfortunately, like taking a good poop, sometimes it’s necessary…. Thank GOD for Toilet Paper.
          Is 600 rolls really enough????

          1. 😎🤙🏻
            Its enough to cover you for 600 rolls worth
            Of silky smooth crack cleanin!

  5. I believe your ‘Poll” and subsequent Article pretty much says it all.
    If/When Over-the-Counter meds and/or Scrips are in short or nonexistent there is going to be a world of hurt.

    One might add O2 (Oxygen) to that list. How many hundreds of thousands of people are on O2? AND O2 can be refined if you know how. I’m betting 0ldhomesteader will confirm that.

    Let’s face it ‘When/If’ happens the entire Country that are presently on things like Insulin (Type 1 Diabetics), Heart Meds, Internal Diseases all or going to have a heck of a hard time.

    The “Best” meds for Barter? I still think you covered that, but what about “replaceable Meds?
    Huh???? Well we know through history that 99.99% of all Meds come from Plants. SO maybe, just maybe the “Best” meds AND Bartering will be knowledge on how to replace “some” of the Meds with organics, as Just Sayin’ would concur.

    Another thought might be Fermented and Distilled Fluids/Foods? Yes some good old Moonshine or Vinegars. Now before ya go “Sure NRP”, what was used so frequently 100 years ago for Pain Killer, Antiseptic, So-On? AND it’s replaceable to barter with, without dwindling your own Meds….. No it’s not a cure all for a LOT of problems, but… I’m Just Saying it’s not something to disregard.

    1. NRP ,,,,,your dead on right about O 2 only problem is the need for electric ,,,but a secondary by product is hydrogen that could be used to run a gas engine,, and no you can’t use the hydrogen to run a generate ,at least for very long ,, if you want to try ,there is a lot about how to do it out there ,,,
      ,,,,,,tea and chocolate

      1. Oxygen generators run on batteries and if you get a chance to pick one up. DO IT!
        It could the little extra that saves your life when you’re trying to survive a heart attack. In the hospital, oxygen is a medication and it is always the first medication given in a heart attack.

    2. Like in the book ‘One Second After’, people were ok for a short time and then when the meds started running out, people started dropping off. In the story, one of the major concerns was when people ran out of mess that had mental issues of various kinds. So, in a SHTF scenario, we don’t have to just deal with people desperate to feed their families but people off their meds that would normally keep them somewhat even keeled. I know this diverges from the article but some people would desire meds other than Advil or antibiotics just so they could attempt to somewhat function even in a world that has turned upside down.

      1. Some good ganjawould actually be perfect for most of those folks, friend of mine was on gnarly anti depressant anti psychotic drugs, hes a vet, he is now off of all meds, he eats home made granola bars that each have about a gram or so of weed in them and it takes care of his issues, VA is not happy with him. He doesnt care, he can sleep now, isnt having wild swings in mood etc and has none of the other side effects of whatever he was on,

  6. I agree that antibiotics and pain relief meds would be high on the list. A good companion to the antibiotics would be Colloidal Silver. I use it internally and externally for a wide range of medical issues and have the machine which includes the pure silver rods to make your own solution of the proper particle size. As an addition to aspirin, have access to Meadowsweet and White willow. A nearby wetland is full of Meadowsweet but I added numerous White willow whip plantings years ago which have established. These two plants are high in salicylic acid which culminated in the synthesis and manufacture of it as aspirin. They are not as harsh on the stomach as aspirin can be for some. Learning how to use them can provide for a near endless supply.

    1. I hope nobody has to go through radiation for cancer. It can leave a very deep sunburn. Silvadine ointment is a colloidal silver burn cream which requires a prescription. It is frequently prescribed along with radiation. If the bad thing is happening I hope you survive it (DW did). while going through the treatment you might want to get some extra tubes of the cream, Kind of like trying to get a little good out of the bad.

      1. I am familiar with the Silvadine ointment as it is often prescribed for those with diabetic ulcers and wounds also. It worked excellent on a dog bite wound for a child when I last used it. Didn’t know it was used for radiation treatments. Hope “yours” received some comfort from it. My issues were mundane, nothing more than the occasional intestinal bug, cuts, rashes, but I will take a shot a day for several days after removing an attached deer tick. I should have said preventative medical issues eluding to those numerous symptoms associated with Lymes.

      2. Me, or ask your doc for a script for when you burn yourself you will have it on hand. It tends to be a smaller tube, but still handy to have.

  7. Ken,
    Your list has really got me thinking. What would be really cool is if someone would put together a Substitution list, based on this list, of natural or alternative medicines to substitute when the manufactured meds start disappearing. just a thought.

    1. Word of warning first: The herbs we use are chemical components in a plant form. They WILL interact with other chemicals. They WILL react to other herbs and pharmaceuticals. In many cases they WILL react with what you’re eating or otherwise consuming. Anyone who tells you that herbs are completely safe and can be taken in large quantities and any combination is either terminally ignorant or selling something dangerous. Note also that every herb has multiple chemical compounds so each one will interact differently with others in the same category. Turmeric, for example, is a pain reliever but also a blood thinner and reduces inflammation. It will react to items in all three categories, so if you’re using it as a blood thinner you probably don’t want to use garlic at the same time (double the effects—they support each other)

      Each category has MANY items, so I’m just listing a few, hopefully those that will be more familiar and easily acquired. I’ve tried not to duplicate–many of these work for other categories as well. Thoroughly research anything you want to start using. Although I have used most of these, this is not medical advice.

      1 Internal pain relief—turmeric, willow, wild lettuce, black pepper
      2 External pain relief—peppers, horseradish, tarragon, wintergreen
      3 Antibiotic/anti-viral/anti-fungal—garlic, thyme, honey, black walnut
      4 Antihistamines/decongestants—vitamin C, stinging nettle, elderberry, salt
      5 Stomach upset/gas—potatoes, ginger, peppermint, rice water
      6 Sleep—valerian, tryptophan (turkey), lavender, passionflower
      7 Burns—aloe, comfrey, calendula (marigold), vinegar

      1. Lauren, EXCELLENT ADVICE but you should have done all caps be cause THIS IS IMPORTANT STUFF!

      2. Yes Very Good info. Some natural remedies have a positive effect combined with other medicine.
        For instance Turkey Tail Mushroom is documented by science to enhance chemotherapy especially with Breast Cancer. If anyone reading has or knows someone who is battling this disease do your homework and decide if perhaps it would be for you. AS ALWAYS DO YOUR OWN RESEARCH TO HELP YOU DECIDE. I only read myself and am know where near being a medical professional.

      3. Lauren add to : List number one use black pepper with tumeric and others. cayenne for chest pain and internal bleeding. #2 arnica cream in wally wld now. #3 Oregano, colloidial silver #4 saline flushes, everlasting, Topical use of plaintain herb tincture for allergic rashes, bites and stings. #5 charcoal, gastric enzymes, #6 chamomille
        #7 colloidial silver…all forms silvadene is just name brand cream can make own with liquid silver, spray it on, leave open to air for 5-8 min.

  8. Misuse and abuse are two of the greatest medical problems related to medicines.
    Get off it and stay off it unless absolutely necessary. There are always side effects that can lead you down that path to dependency.
    Most medications have relatively short time frames for effectiveness so after a year or two, avoidance of illness and injury would be paramount.
    What could be saved and traded if one was desperate and foolish, could be honey, vinegar, sugar, alcohol. … in very small quantities.
    Have a cold, flu, headache, stiff joints, … and hundreds of other non-life threatening complaints – use what nature provides or live with it.

  9. As with everything else, the best items for barter in medicines will be things you can easily replace–willow for pain, turmeric as a blood thinner, honey or garlic as antibiotics, etc–and the knowledge to use them.

    Part of my plan is to grow herbals like astragalus, black walnut, horseradish–things that look ornamental but have some value in medicine. If only I could get elderberry to grow…

    1. Lauren and Just Sayin- have either of you read The Lost Book of Remedies by Claude Davis? I just picked this up and started reading last night. The author was taught by his father to use herbs to treat everything, including cancer, with success. Really amazing to me what plants are growing all around me that I had no idea were beneficial. This book not only says what, but when and how to process, dosing and methods. I’m reconsidering my flower beds to only have the plants that have value as opposed to just pretty,

      1. My question would be, which plants are just “pretty” without any other value? Probably very few. JUST a lily? JUST an iris? Just a sunflower, or a peony, or a rose? Research the flowers in your beds, you’ll probably find out they each have one or more uses. Then it’s a matter of determining which will be more important and learning to use them.

          1. Iris root is a topical painkiller and a dye. There are very few plants that do not have some kind of alternative use (I say that for others reading, since you’re already aware). Your daylilies are an antispasmodic–do you keep them for that, or do you use lemon balm and lavender, and keep the daylily for its other uses?

      2. Much has long been forgotten as big pharma made it all too easy. They cannot patent an herb. Many medicines are 1st found in nature then synthesized and patented. Nothing is really man made, just man rearranged.

      3. Montana Home,.. I have not seen that book, but am interested…, my book budget is too tiny.

        1. Think Foxglove for digoxin, a very important heart medication and fatal if too much is taken and useless if too little, Deadly Night Shade is also an important one for belladonna a barbiturate anti-spasmodic. Same caveats as the digoxin.

      4. MontanaHome
        After you have time to go through the book in its entirety please let us know what you think of it. I have checked the reviews, good and very bad. Since you have the book what do you think of its contents as a beginner.

    2. Lauren, go to rain country you tube… she has a lot of things she makes…from common flowers/herbs. some as vinegars and some as tinctures…. having the knowledge to use will be of no benefit if substances needed are not available for them to barter…

      1. Which is why I selected the items I did–most of them are easily grown or commonly available in gardens or in the wild. Things most people would recognize even if they don’t know anything about wildcrafting. For people just starting this journey, their spice cabinets and flower beds are their first resource.

  10. I agree with Ken, antibiotics should be number one with immodium following a close second. Infection and dehyradration are both killers.
    Just a little side note. DH believes in pills for everything. Recently we ran out of ibuprofen (because he didn’t tell me we were low). He tends to eat them like candy because of chronic pain. Out of the blue he asked about the turmeric that I take. He was desperate at this point, so he wanted to try them. The next day he told me that they really worked, I said’ “I know, that’s why I take them”. So don’t forget the alternatives.

    1. No, No, No and NO on eating them like candy. they can set you up for ulcers and a kind of chronic diarrhea condition. Recommend dosage on all over the counter medications has been reduced from what we grew up with. Read the label, again.

      1. @ Me, he knows all of this but still chooses to take them when he feels he needs them. He says he will cross that bridge when he gets to it.

  11. Think about chocking down that opossum stew… If you run out of TUMS you will be in a world of hurt. :)
    That is a vital stock up for me and Mrs. even more so than TP. I can just take my neighbors drapes cut into small squares and have enough keester wipe to last many moons.

    1. White cracker,
      I seem to remember drinking a glass of a couple teaspoons of baking soda mixed with water wayy before i ever heard of tums, baking soda is cheap, lots of uses,

      1. Tommyboy and White Cracker,

        I seldom have heartburn, but when I do, I use the baking soda and warm water solution. Works like a charm for me. I would think that two teaspoons of baking soda would be a little overboard. I use one teaspoon.

  12. Not medicines per se, but as they say an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. And these items are kept in the medicine cupboard anyway.

    Soap, and lots of it – in a time of societal collapse we should probably be washing our hands many more times a day than we do now, especially if we are in contact with the public, members of our group that are sick, raw meat, body fluids, and animal waste. Routine, preventative hand washing revolutionized modern medicine and hospital survival rates. Families with young children in particular might be needing to trade for soap.
    Along with this, antibacterial hand gel, wipes, and other skin disinfectants like alcohol and thin bleach.

    Skin moisturizer – if one is prone to cracks and splits in skin that is washed often or, like me, split cuticles in the winter , etc, keeping skin pliable will reduce potential introduction of bacteria through breaks in the skin.

    Dental care items like toothbrushes and floss. Poor dental health has been linked to poor cardiac health. Gum infections can lead to bacterial sepsis.

    Condoms, not just to limit the spread of STDs, but to curb pregnancies during a time when adequate medical care may not be accessible. Complications of pregnancy and childbirth were a significant cause of death when our country was new, and is the number 1 killer of teenage girls today in developing countries.

    Procedure/surgical masks. In 1900 the top three causes of death were pneumonia/influenza, tuberculosis, and enteritis/diarrhea; children under 5 made up 40% of these deaths. Masking the unwell, and masking children around the unwell, could save many young lives.

    Multiple vitamin/mineral supplement. Societal collapse will definitely bring about a change in eating habits. A vitamin pill can go a long way toward preventing diseases and conditions brought on by a lack of something microscopic, and can help keep the system balanced. Big bottles at the big box stores are relatively inexpensive.

    As we prevent folks from getting sick, we will preserve our precious stocks of medicine for future use and trading.

    1. Anony Mee ,,,,,,,some thing about having lived a full life to put things in perspective ,,,,,,,,

      1. oldhomesteader

        Yep, been vaccinated against everything except Japanese B encephalitis and, ‘cause I got out of the sandbox when I did, anthrax. Got the rabies series and boosters as it was endemic where I went.

        Treated for TB in SW Asia, where beloved child also came down with dengue fever (thanks be to God the non-hemorrhagic variety). There’s nothing worse than watching your child suffer. They are lovely, but have no desire to ever live in the tropics again.

    2. Good list Anony ,
      Essential oils that are anti-infective… Lemon balm, tea tree, Oregano oil( to be diluted to 1/6th strength to make oil of oregano).frankinsence,

      … anti yeast/mold -to keep healthy by preventing disease,substances, like Borax, Apple cider vinegar, Oregano,Lomatium .

      … herbals for respiratory /urinary symtoms.. ..in tincture individually for sublingual use: Pippsisswea, Usnea, Hawthorn,Dandelion, Lomatium, Garlic, Mint family

      Adaptogen herbals, to address modulation/normalization of various body functions. astralagus, ..others.

    3. So I spent part of yesterday at the clinic. For a couple weeks had been thinking I’d pulled an abdominal muscle lifting something too heavy. Just didn’t clear up. Was also feeling low and attributed that to the recent sudden death of a dear friend and generalized concern about family in these times. Got a whole lot worse Saturday evening. Turns out I had a bad bladder infection without a lot of the normal symptoms. Given a couple antibiotics to take.

      Heard predators middle of the night. Jumped up to let dogs out for a run and to check on pigs. Experienced that wonderful lifted feeling that comes after the first dose of a powerful antibiotic.

      Those are now top of my “to get” list, if/when Thomas Lab has them back in stock. Had been waffling over the price when current crisis hit. Don’t want to be without during a long-term event.

      Since this took me to larger city, silver lining was getting to spend a couple hours with the millennials. Lucky auntie.

  13. Did I see Mary Jane on the list ? What a bunch of enlighten people !! Pot has al kinds of good things in it CBD THC for the people off their meds this would help alot. I think one of the best barter items you can have its one of the no harm no foul items

    1. Another thing would be beetle nut or Ava root, both strong sedatives, both leave you still functional but way toned down

      1. I chew beetle nut all the time. One thing that it does not do to me is tone me down. To me, it is like a caffeine/nicotine effect. Wales me up when tired and warms me up when cold. Kind of help calm my stomach as well.

        1. Mr. said in Vietnam the Vietnamese chewed it and even when shot they would just keep coming!

          1. Wow, the stuff I chew is nothing close to that strength. To me it is like having a couple cups of coffee right after each other or a big dip of chew.

    2. Only problem I see for most on THC is they just are not very productive, key word being most.

  14. A little off thread, but………..

    Not for barter, rather a medical prep, is making sure your tetanus shot/booster is up to date. Many of us have livestock and tetanus thrives in pastures and barns where domestic animals are kept.

    When I was a child, we lost a horse to lockjaw (tetanus). He had stepped on a roofing nail that penetrated the frog of his hoof. He didn’t show symptoms for a couple of weeks after my Dad removed the nail. It was too late to save him once symptoms became apparent. Our family doctor recommended annual vaccinations for entire family for three consecutive years as a precaution. Only time I saw my Dad cry growing up was when we had to put “Big Boy”, his favorite horse, down.

    I don’t need a reminder, but I share because some might.

    1. Dennis, out of curiousity i looked up alternatives to tetanus shot, got this little blurb off newsmax,


      The best course of action would have been to clean the wound with a 50 percent mixture of betadine and hydrogen peroxide. This kills most bacteria, many viruses, and all tetanus organisms. Silver solutions are also excellent for sterilizing.

      This case illustrates that most doctors know little or nothing about vaccines, especially their contents. The tetanus vaccine is one of the more dangerous of the vaccines and can have very serious complications.”

      Was from a Dr. Blaylock
      Was just curious going to do more reading

      1. Tommyboy,

        When Dad discovered Big Boy’s limp, he removed the nail and boiled it out with “carbolic acid” immediately, followed by filling the puncture with iodine or merthiolate. It evidently was too late to stop the spread. I won’t get into the whole vaccination debate. I’ve had many with no side effects except having an urge to slap Hillary. :-)

        1. Dennis,
          I was brought up the same way,
          “Your gonna get lockjaw boy go get a tetanus shot,” grew up on a ranch, was always getting cuts and scrapes, was on fence detail more than not if i wasnt doing chores,
          You bringing it up made me wonder if there was an alternative cause we aint most likely getting any shots other than what the democrat storm troopers fly at us, so was curious is all, i still go and get tetanus shots regular because im around the farm and animals all the time.

          1. I too had to look up Tetanus. Not a very good outlook shtf as some folks would need help breathing and lots of intravenous solutions. 10% pass over even with good care. Muscle relaxers would be helpful in this case. Tetanus can show up months later as well.

          2. Mrs USMCBG
            I was pretty surprised how many different ailments are connected to tetanus,
            After the fact deseases and such are the biggest killers in any of the disasters that have happend. Pretty sure we wont be any different.
            I do think folks who are prepared, overall will fare much better, we tend to be more careful and conscious of what we are doing and what is going on around us.
            I hate to say it but the stupid factor has a lot to do with some mortality rates.
            God save us

          3. I was washing some sheep hair to spin and it had a thorn and of course It scratched me and i was sent to the doc for a tetanus shot. Something so simple and so dangerous.

  15. A good idea to have some on hand. Lots of drugs will still be available in most SHTF scenarios. But the ones you need probably won’t and when they are you will need to pay a lot.

    I bet the black market will still have a good supply of Meth…lol

    1. Hope not, I think most of the users will be leaving the rest of us in the not to distant future after TEOTWAWKI. Withdrawal can be a real bitch for those folks.

      1. I wish that would happen. I only see drug use increasing in a SHTF event. In a collapse SHTF event eventually drug addicts will “disappear”.

    2. Oh great having to deal with tweekers too. Now of course they have to have products to make it and that will rum out at some point. Sigh then there will more addicts to deal with………..

  16. Some of these surprised me. Not so much because I think any are not necessary, but I am thinking about those meds, like ones for high BP. People can get really sick really fast without some of these meds, so I was surprised not to see more specific things. I guess the point is, if you have high BP, you will probably only last so long anyway without the proper meds.

    I ahve been wondering just how valid expiration dates really are. I started “skimming” pills from mine and my wife’s prescriptions about 2 year ago. Every time we get them refilled, I “skim”7 out of each bottle and save them away. The problem is, I need to start rotating the stock, so I am not always saving the oldest ones. I am not very organized, though.

    How much are expiration dates valid and how much do you think they are meant to keep us buying stuff because we think that the products we have are gone bad?

    1. Most hard form pills can outlast you when stored properly. Their loss of effectiveness is negligible for most, such as 1 or 2%. If a hard form pill has turned to powder, it likely has lost a good portion of it’s effectiveness. However, it’s good practice to rotate out old stock, especially if you’re unfamiliar with the medication’s loss of effectiveness rate. With liquids, gels, and soft capsules go by expiration date. These are not as stable and are more likely to be affected by the environment.

      1. Thanks for the feedback, Dani. One of my goals this coming year is definitely going to be rotating out old stock. I could nto agree more that weed belongs on that list! It can help so many things. I had no idea that Type 1 diabetics had hope after SHTF scenario. You learn something new every day.

    2. lovelypoet, welcome back. what kind of pills are you skimming? It can make a difference. I might be able to make some suggestions.

    3. Lovelypoet, When you get the next refill on your meds, pull out an older bottle and begin using it…(make sure same med etc.)to rotate out oldest stock. doing this a couple times out of every half year should give you good rotation…on stored meds. Your new supply for each of you should be placed in a pint jar labeled with name…pop in an activated hot hands and seal in oxygen free enviroment.

      Blood sugar./ type 2 specific, and prediabetes…very effective. alternatives..Bitter melon, 60 capsule bottles cost about 8$ a bottle and 8 bottles will be enough for 2+ years…regular dosing.. 15 dys on and 15 days off. takes 2 cycles to be effective.doseage ranges from 450 per capsule to 950 depending on manufacturer….other’s include… cinnamon… fenugreek,..chromium, gymnea sylvestere, selenium and diabetics often run low on magnesium so should stock several magnesium caplets and vitamin K2. epsom salts for back up /topical absorbtion.(foot soak)
      Blood pressure. either high or low….. herbal tea from leaves and small twigs of huckleberry/ sandberry/ even blueberry will work in a pinch. 3 tbs of leaves in cup of hot water steep 30 in. drink 2 x dauily- takes 8-10 days to kick in and be fully effective. it also modulates blood sugar.

      Medical for armed forces did tests on old medicines, very few are toxic when they get old…. one of antibiotics..is on this list.( one i don’t stock). Asprin, when it is bad smells like vinegar. and gets crumbly…Liquid medications go bad close to their dates, do not retain strength/ effectiveness. Natural news had peice on asparatine today ..It is added to many meds as a sweetner/flavor enhancer- should go there and read it, if you are not sure of its properties.affects cognition.
      Some are liver toxic at amounts considered close to therapeudic level..one example of this is tylenol/acetaminophen.

      1. Just Sayin,

        For the last 3 weeks, I have copied your posts in a Word document for future reference and guidance. Your information could save many lives when SHTF.

        Thank you Just Sayin

    4. Aspirin becomes toxic when it is old. Don’t use that after the expiration date.

      Tetracycline is another drug that should not be taken after it’s expiration date.

  17. I’m also wondering why alcohol and antivirals aren’t on the list. Not only did antibiotics help us live longer, but proper sterilization and sanitation did as well. Alcohol can also be used to clean a wound and numb the senses to pain. Seems a bit more versatile to stock and barter with than other items on the list. And, influenza still kills kids and pregnant women every year.

    My top items would easily be antibiotics, antivirals, ibuprofen, alcohol, then weed. This allows me to cover bacterial infection, viral infection, fever, sterilization to prevent infection, then pain relief/mental health/sleep aid all in one. Sleep and relaxation are extremely important for mental health.

    My personal stash also includes extra insulin on hand for hubby to transition to his SHTF Type-1 Management Plan we designed and tested. Despite what many think, Diabetics can live without insulin injections and be healthy with rigid control and management.

    1. From what I understand the antivirals do have a short shelf life but I really am not positive on that. I do have a course of Tamiflu stored but I really don’t know much about the antivirals.

      I have a lot more to say on this thread but it is late and I’ll post again tomorrow.

      1. As we have mentioned here before. Tamiflu literally comes from the Chinese Star Anise seed. Not Japanese variety!!! They process the seeds and for the pharma it takes about a year. You can buy Star Anise and make tincture. If you live in an area with Sweet Gum trees they also have the same properties against the flu. The Sweet Gums in the south are just now dropping their mature prickly seed pods. Get some clean quart or half gallon jars and some 190 proof alcohol, Take a hammer to the pods put in and let soak for at least 3 weeks longer is better. Just Sayin got me going on this because of all of the pandemics this would seem the most likely. Did you see where the little girl 7 or 8 died from the flu. HAD BEEN GIVEN the vaccine!!! She did not QUALIFY for Tamiflu because she was over 2 and under 65. As I understand it there is already a shortage?…

        1. It’s called MURDER BY PRESCRIPTION. The flu vaccine is engineered to target people with certain skin tones and ethnic backgrounds.Each Ethnicity has a different resistant to core virals.Many virals have a very high mortality rate with in certain age brackets… who will not have any natural immunity form exposure to “groups of virus’.
          When some people tell what is happening others are incredulous and get all puffed up. Read. learn. Watch. Pray for this travesty to be stopped.

        2. I thought the green immature pod from sweet gum should be used… ?
          Thanks for helping to clarify for me!
          Beach’n

        3. For those interested, Japanese and Chinese are two entirely different plants. The Japanese Star Anise is toxic. Chinese Star Anise is the seasoning.

      2. me, Hope this helps.
        …antivirals I have use most effectively oil of oregano( works great on fever blisters, shingles and flu),colloidial silver is anti viral( hold dose sublingual for 2 min then swallow.) as is food grade peroxide.
        sweetgum tincture, is a DOUBLE tincture, 3 weeks first batch and second part of tincture to same fluid requires 3 MORE weeks.( stores life of alcohol- 10+ years..just make and rotate every few years. can be used as prevenative daily dosed same way as liquid tamiflu. download instructions per internet now.adult dose 10 cc. accord to what i found. daily dose as a preventative. For active flu case I would use Q4-6 hours while awake. not taken flu shot since.2008 and have not had flu.

        1. Do you have a website or blog to follow? You seem to know a lot about naturals and I want to learn more. Please advise

          1. Interested Party,
            No I don’t have a website or blog.
            .. I am a learner, I have had the opportunity to learn because of resistant bacteria and various family members being sent home to die…yet, chose to live.
            Intestinal upset/diarrhea and Urinary and respiratory infections are common learning to treat having medication, pharma old school and herbals to use together can be effective. To do this you must know what each item you choose to use does… it’s expected reaction….Information I posted above was learned thru herbal walk information. I have Lyme and many bacteria are used in the manufacture of flu vaccines… including the one that causes Lyme. taking the flu vaccine would GIVE me a relapse of my Lyme signs/symptoms.
            The computer search .. start page or duck duck go pages are your friend…. I go to herbal sites…herbal companies, and look at their products and what they blend for each problem i have- i need to be able to treat…then i research each of those individually.
            Avoid “pharma sponsored” sites…use herbal, holistic and natural sites…more information on what substances CAN be used for will be listed in these places.. Pharma sites generally will be discouraging one from trying anything because they can make no money from herbals/natural substances.
            Herbals have been used for thousands of years. They are to be used with knowledge, carefully. Many are toxic. Knowing your herbs/plants is vital., to be able to use…
            You need to do your own research for your particular problem.
            Look up “natural” or homeopathic remedies for ____ Urinary infections, urinary stones,respiratory infection, asthma,..
            Look up medicinal uses of____ garlic, oregano.peppermint, usnea, boneset,..then read about parts of plants used and how prepared. several herbalists have books. General tinctures instructions are easily available.. Some herbs like oregano and peppermint can be used topically on the feet/diluted and on chest..and internally all in limited amounts…for decongestant, respiratory ease.
            .. Many herbs can be used as tea for one problem and smoke can be breathed for another… Rabbit Tobacco, Everlasting is one example of this. tea works for gastritis and IBS symptoms..also is a decongestant. smoke breathed in about 3 puffs acts like albuterol for asthma…and does not give the jitters, like the pharma version.. is one herb our entire family ses for one cause or the other.
            One such resource is video’s of”herbal walks” on you tube… for now.. put it in you tubes search bar and binge watch with a note book….lots of information. There are several.herbalists that have informative materials on video… Darryl Patton /Has one.. labeled” Desoto plant walk”.. a good place to start. turn up the volume…they are recorded in open air..
            . Hope these ideas help in your search.

    2. Dani,

      Please tell me more about the SHTF Type I Management Plan. My grandson is newly diagnosed Type I (four months) and I have a real concern and worry.

    3. Dani, can you please post what the plan is for post insulin.
      I am not diabetic but know several people who are insulin dependent.Who are already baredly eeking by and can not get extra meds.
      I am thinking tight diet.. and heavy exerice. combined w/, tapering of insulin use, as diet kicks in… need specific limits/guides…We realize every Body is different…and may respond different but need a place to start for each individual.With testing of this method for your hubby- and him knowing it works for him, this would give others a place to start.

  18. We buy/store Neosporin in large packs at Costco…multiple uses….seems to have a really good long shelf life making it storable for future bartering

  19. My list:
    1. Antibiotics (different kinds, tablets, injections, liquid, cream)
    2. Ibuprofen and paracetamol (tablets and anal capsules)
    3. Infusions (NaCl and glucose)
    4. Surgical equipment (tools and gauze etc)
    5. Serious pain killers (tablets and injections)
    6. Dental care equipment (tools and materials)
    7. Fungicides
    8. Vitamins
    If you know how, with this equipment, you can do what ever you need to do concerning your health issues.

    1. Veteran, You know that all oral capsules can be given rectally or vaginally, for best absorbtion would break apart and put in honey.instilled with small dosing syringe used for just that purpose.

        1. Veteran, You fit in well here. We had all rather have original meds for those near and dear to us. My children are grown. I have grands but they live far away. I do not routinely stock childrens meds because I have no way to rotate. Knowing appropriate doses and how to achieve that safely, with alternate ways to give to a vomiting child, all have the potential to save others who live nearby should emergency occur.

  20. I am rich!!!! I have several very large bottles of Ibuprofen that i can’t take because they give me migraines. The older I get the more problems I have with meds.

  21. Epsom Salts (magnesium sulfate) for soaking and laxatives. Last indefinitely and inexpensive.

    1. Mrs. USMCBG,
      I soak with Epsom Salts for my neck problems. I’ve had 2 neck surgeries in 3 years and very sore muscles. It works so well with warm/hot water. I put some bubbles in for fun.

  22. The bottom line is– in a SHTF situation– what do you need?
    What can you share?
    Deals can always be made

  23. Most meds are obvious, and I’m glad you included anti-diarrhea meds. There’s going to be a lot of unprepared folks drinking and eating a lot of stuff that they shouldn’t. Not too necessary for me personally, but a good barter med for the others.

  24. Terra, You are welcome, Next part is to print them off in sections so you can find the info you are looking for. Possibly take the notes and separate out on index cards for each problem. That is why I post. It took me a long time to find the best products for my family ‘s needs. They are common needs.Just wanting to help others ..learning curve can be time consuming. and when sudden symptoms start there is no time to play with trying to find info. Be sure to get garlic and prepare for allisin release( i used 40 small toes)mash allow to sit for 10 min then smush/dice. , put in vinegar.12 oz. as long as cloudy is good, can addvinegar a couple of times to same garlic peices… keep handy for flu season., keep in refrig…when sinus and lung issues/infections occur.8-10cc awful dose q 4 hours but works well and quickly.. Is commonly grown in lots of palces so widely available.

  25. Beach’n,
    Don’t get hung up on which parts you are using.Just make sure you are leaving each half of the tincture at least 3 weeks. There are several very good you tube videos on the use of the sweetgum tree. Just go to you tube and put in sweetgum tincture…and sveral will come up. Most do show using the green balls. Parts are an antidiarrheal and also anti inflmmatory. I have seen recipes that called for both dry and green seed pods. It is important for you to know the acid is in MANY parts of the sweetgum tree, higher in the male seed in the dry seed pod, but ingredient needed is in smallest twigs, all bark, green seed pods and also sufficiently high in the bright green leaves that put on first thing in the spring.( since I am acutely aware of my supply in the spring is a good time for me to make tincture) Green pods are available in mid year, but often difficult to harvest( high up, and attached well?)they would have the acid as well and be high enough for making tincture..(as is the first leaves). .The leaves are sufficient to use for a double tincture,( do not stick, and I usually use mostly those w/what ever other plant material I have available. when pulling leaves for sweetgum tincture. I gather at least 2x what i think i need, and put half in a ziplock, collapse it to flat, freeze for second half of tincture.That way i am assured i have enough to complete the tincture. By making in spring, there is no rush to finish it…ie last half of tincture will be able to pull all available requirements from the plant material contained, to liquid.
    Hope this helps.

    1. Just Sayin’

      Is there a specific book you recommend for getting started with herbals? Also, MSB only retains Saturday’s What Did You Do for about four weeks..

      1. Anony Mee, The primary thing you need is an identification book, with basic information. ..how and what parts of plants are used in preps for which area of concern…I have several books of Natural healing. On is called the complete book of natural healing by bottom linebooks.Gary Null.. Another one i have is Nature’s Medicnes by Rodale /prevention magazine.Gale Malesky and other editors.
        Most of my information is off of Herbal sites I have gleaned from the internet. You tube for now has a lot of herbal stuff. it is being removed slowly… so if interested go to those and listen and take notes while it is there. I also go to various herbal pharmacy pages and research the same herb on several sites… look for common and uncommon use, properties, cautions- esp with children and pregnancy. This info…I cut and paste info necessary.. into a word document..with a type size discernable…often put source with the info..(.author/article/ or cite 3 sources with this info)., then put all info on that herb together… print when ready and put in a notebook. Another way is to start with a problem… ex. Lyme, Put in ( search bar..start page, or duck duck go) Herbal natural remedies for Lyme… should pull up several articles. go thru all of them writing down their methods… then research each one separately…Remember just like pharma meds. as no one drug works alike on every person, no herb is right for every person either.. have fun with your learning. You will remember more of it.
        This is how I have found answers for my family. We had trial and error herbals for antibiotic resistant bacteria several times..If you have the herbals on hand you know are effective. You do not have to search. when illness strikes… Like MRSA. oil of oregano. confirmed by lab results is effective. confirmed in real life is effective.
        If you have a particular concern… send me a question, If i do not know the answer , will help you seek the correct answer.

        I have gotten on various Doctors mailing lists, especially if they are specialists in one of my areas I have intense interest.(lyme, factor V Leiden, alzheimers,URI,antibiotic resistance) They often quote and cite sources with research I need/am interested to know.
        The info on K2 came from one of those letters.( The fact it has been researched and it’s major function is to move minerals and balance them within the cells which require increase .. ie moves magnesium, calcium and zinc to the bones our of the blood vessels, .. the obvious result would be less cardiac occlusion and stronger bone…)

      2. Anony Mee
        I started with Mary Gladstone’s books, and one by Penelope Ody “The Complete Medicinal Herbal” it has photos with what parts that can be used. My niece still has that book, she has read it cover to cover so for her birthday purchased the Gladstar’s books but will have to add this one.

  26. I wonder if having milk of magnesia in tablet form would also be good to store in case the opposite of diarrhea happens. Have a grandson that had an issue,due to him not drinking enough fluids, getting “bound up”. The psycho would give him meds instead of making sure he drank enough. I store the pepto tablets as well because I have been told to do solid tablets rather than liquids or gels because of the length of storage on the solid tablets.

    1. Granny O,
      Liquid MOM keeps a long time if UN-opened. liquid can be flavored with essential peppermint drops, I put about 10 in a big bottle. and add 2 -3 teaspoons of either sugar or stevia powder… shake very hard to mix thoroughly. really helps me be able to take it. We don’t like the flavor or the asparatine in the flavored ones.I have enough hunnger without taking something that induces hunger.

      Magnesium comes in a mag citrate caplet..intestines absorb it better and is best used for muscle camps to avoid upset.. If needed for constipation, a liquid magnesum or magnesium malate might be a better choice. 2 TBSP. of MOM contains 1200mg of magnesium. the citrate form comes in 200mg and 400mg that i have found… is effective in smaller doses for cramping. If you have freezer or cool storage area gels would be ok at least to their expiration date.( i have used some a full year past expir. date.)

  27. Cayenne can stop a heart attack according to many herbalist. There seems to be some backing to this. I had a heart attack 12-years ago and now take a few heart health mix of herbs every day. Have not had so much as a single chest pain since.

    A capsule machine ($16.00) and a few thousand empty capsules ($14.00 per 1,000) would be worth having. I’m not going to say how many empty capsules I have on hand as I would likely be called a hoarder…

    You can also make herbal balls (the size of a pee) by mixing the herb with honey, powered chocolate rolling it in your hand to a small ball and letting it dry. (Rosemary Gladstar talks about this in her book “Medical Herbs, A beginners guide”) All her books are well worth having.

    The capsules can be loaded with many other herbs that provide benefits to people. Garlic is a mild antibiotic, lots of other herbs are handy.

    The study of herbal meds is well worth the time and effort in doing it for your own health and possibly as a barter thing.

    But I would not want to do any herb / medical bartering while the government is still around as it could easily cause a lot of bad things to happen. Like court / jail time.

    But after a real bad SHTF It may be OK. But doing it in any situation short of a full-blown Mad Max World is not good for you.

    Governments for the most part don’t like the dispensing of herbs by people it feels are not trained to do so.

    A good thing to understand about herbs is that they differ from most modern meds in that they normally don’t offer the instant results like modern meds do. They are more gradual in that it takes time for them to work. 2 exceptions to this that I’m aware of, Cayenne works fast to stop a heart attack (some reports are that it works within a min or less) and Ginger Root capsules work within 5-min or so to settle my stomach when I take one.

    Ken an idea for a future article may be what herbs to have on hand in a home and in an auto first aid kit.

    1. Anon, Lauren just posted a beginning list on this thread. I added some to it. Cayenne has also proven very effective to stop both internal and external bleeding…. enabling the saving of a life when help was more than 30 min away..knowing the amount to put in a cup of water and give to someone is crucial. would be a hard dose to take, but better than dying from a bad accident.

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