Ammo Shortage – It’s Gone – And I Mean Virtually Everywhere…

It is amazing. There’s a big ammo shortage out there right now. All the ammo is gone! Well, not “all”, but I might as well say all – just to make a point.

UPDATE: It’s now the end of 2020. I originally posted this during July. There’s no let up in site for this ammo shortage. Why? Demand. Why the demand? Apart from what I wrote below, now there’s even more uncertainty following the ‘Great Steal’ on November 3rd. Most all gun owners know what Harris/Biden are promising — >>they want your guns (which is what the Left ALWAYS wants).

>> Video Message from the president of Federal/Remington Ammunition

Ammunition Purchases Have Shattered Records

These many months have SHATTERED records for buying guns AND ammunition.

Do you remember the ammo shortage years ago when all of the .22LR disappeared from the shelves? And do you recall how long it took to get back to normal with just that one caliber?

Now think about our present day ammo shortage! Just about every caliber seems affected. They’re mostly all gone. Just for fun I searched several online ammo distributors and nearly every handgun caliber (for example) was gone. I searched on the most popular, 9mm, and it’s gone.

Like many of you, I enjoy target shooting from time to time. But nowadays, even though I’m well stocked with ammo, I hesitate to use it! Why? Because I can’t replace it! At least that’s what it seems.

Even if you have a thousand rounds of this and a thousand rounds of that (for example), it’s pretty easy to blow through a hundred rounds (and more!) during a session, right? Next thing you know – your stack is getting lower – while replacements are hard to come by…

Given the status of our probable bumpy future (putting it mildly), many of you are likely hesitating yourself with regards to using your ammunition to practice your skill, right? It really is quite remarkable what is happening…

UPDATE! It’s even worse now! Nationwide severe ammo shortages! Dealers are having extreme difficulty getting ammo deliveries!

American Citizens and Patriots KNOW INSTINCTIVELY that’s something’s coming…

Do you own a gun for self defense? I highly recommend that you read the following book. I’m glad that I did…

>> THE LAW OF SELF DEFENSE
(view on amzn)

Why the ammo shortage? Who is buying it?

Concerned Americans!

Who can blame them? We’re living through a time of madness, craziness, upheaval, revolution. Our destiny is uncertain at best. So people prepare for the worst. One’s security – perhaps defense of Country and Constitution- is of utmost importance, so people shore up their preps in this regard (guns and ammo). However the distribution systems can’t keep up. The ammo is gone. Guns too. To varying extents.

Message from Jason Vanderbrink (DEC-2020),

UPDATE: There have been MILLIONS of new gun purchases and new gun owners this year. Consequently, each of them require ammunition for their newly purchased guns. This in itself has put a strain on ammo manufacturers.

Here is a recent message from the President of Federal/Remington/CCI/Speer Ammunition:

I really don’t know how long it might take for ammo manufacturers to catch up, and resupply to the extent of being somewhat “back to normal”. Concerned Americans will continue to supply themselves with ammo as it becomes available. To what end?

I suppose it will keep happening until such time that those purchasing ammo feel “the threat” has diminished or over. Maybe that’s “if” Trump is victorious come November (UPDATE: You all know what happened…). Because the alternative outcome will surely continue to drain whatever is left of the supply chain for a very long time to come as the new Left Commie/Marxists will come for them. Heck, either way I don’t see this settling down for the foreseeable future.

UPDATE: As you know, “the steal” is underway. That’s now even more concern to prepare for…what may come.

Maybe these manufacturers can overcome this ammo shortage situation. But I’m not so sure about that…

Where can you find ammo today?

Okay, lets throw it out there to the MSB community. How bad are the ammo shortages near you? Are you finding much of anything out there? What about online (seems out-of-stock there too)?

Keep the community up-to-date with your comments below…

This is crazy!

>> Traveler’s Guide to the Firearm Laws of the Fifty States

[ Read: Self Defense Threat And The 21-Foot-Rule ]

[ Read: Record Gun Sales 2020 ]

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498 Comments

  1. Rifle ammo is easier to get than handgun. But not .223/5.56. If you have an off chambered caliber, it might be easier. But 45mm, 9mm, 40, .38, all gone. If you can find it, you’re going to pay 50 bucks for a box of 50 Wolf brand or worse.

    Pick it up if you can.

    1. About the same here on the front range. Pistol ammo very limited, 556/223/300blackout/762×39 gone. 3030 gone. 270 308 3006 etc available. 22 also gone shotgun no buckshot or slugs. Hope everyone here took care of this already. DOL RLTW

      1. Handgun ammunition in my area of southern virginia is really the one that got sucked up. I can still find .223/5.56 and other various hunting cartridges. Revolver cartridges like 38 spl are available but expensive. This makes me really want to buy a firearm in .38 super auto or .357 sig because thats all thats left on shelves.

      2. Yea! No buckshot in SC either. Gonna really suck during our already started deer season!

    2. Paid 375 for 1k rounds of Wolf 9 about 3 hours ago. They had 16 cases in stock. Now they have 14 😁

          1. You can remove that Anvil from your old primer, flatten out the strike indentation. Load with lead styphnate or even finely ground strike anywhere match heads and you will have a workable mix to acquire the real stuff from the ss.

          2. Also if you are having issues with your Varmint loads or are out of Remington Accelerator, try using a .223 out of a .308 or .300 Win Mag with a Cast Acrylic Sabot works like a dream and the velocities are fantastic. Actually, it works well across the board. Always check your fired primer. If it is getting sharply made edges from the primer being set back against the bolt face, your pressure is exceeding max and you must back off 10% of powder weight.

        1. Reloading components are difficult to find as well. You can recycle brass and cast bullets, but primers are nowhere to be found.

    3. sgammo still has tons of 22LR…It does me no good….my rifles are all chambered in 556,and my pistols are all chambered in 9mm…

      1. Joe ,,,,,,if you have a ar try a 22lr conversion, ,,the one from cmmg works like a champ

    4. AmmoSeek,com find ammo, bought 1000 9MM HPT its a search app that finds ammo from multiple of online stores, some with free shipping. (I do not work for them)

      1. I buy some through them, it’s expensive but is available. Some sites allow only limited boxes per order.

    5. I just purchased 5 boxes of 50 rounds of 9mm literally just two days ago. Not panic or hoard buying, just range ammo.. the prices were not shot up or anything. $9 a box.

      It might not be on your shelves right now, but it is coming.

      I went almost a month without purchasing a single round of 9mm. So i know how crappy it can be.

        1. Ammo in my area is hit and miss there are shipments coming in but very little on each. Being a reloader primers is what everybody is looking for right now! How is everybody else’s reload supplies looking like??

          1. Small pistol and small rifle are non existent in North Idaho. Bullets are hit and miss, plenty of powder right now.

          1. Just bought two boxes of 12ga number 7.5 low brass for 8.99 per box of 25 shells. Good for target shooting and clays.

          2. Academy has it 8.99 a box in east Texas. First come first serve. Longview Texas.

      1. Just paid $26.99 per 50 round box of target rounds. Was going to hit the range, but might be saving them instead since they had low supply and other shops in the area are empty. Owner of the shop says they can’t even get primers for reloads.

        1. Save your ammo right now is NOT the time to be burning up your ammo…. this is going to get lots worst before better!

          1. Minute Man,

            Shades of David and Goliath. Of course Goliath probably didn’t have an AR.

          2. Old man is great with a sling shot, but he did ask me for a scope for his sling shot for Christmas this year!

        1. Not me I was stocked up way before all this hit, I have over 500 rounds 9mm, 300 22 rounds for my son’s new .22 Glock Im good haha

          1. Norse,.

            That’s it?

            Haha

            Ya probably got, at the least, 3 days worth of food stocks, too?

          2. JC,,,
            Bwahahaaaaa!!!!
            LMFAO
            😂🤣
            thats what i burn when i go to the range!

      2. Its ridiculous, I bought a new gun months ago P238 & haven’t even had a chance to try it, I have been looking for 380 ammo everywhere, I live in East TN outside of Knoxville.

          1. JB
            Where are you located. I’m in Chatanooga and everyone is out of 380.

        1. Try GunBroker.com. It’s a little more expensive than usual, but probably more folks should have paid attention to Mr. Jeff Cooper when he said to always buy 2 boxes when going to the range; one box to shoot and the other to put in your storage locker.

          1. I bought 5 boxes for $14 each at Bass Pro on Christmas eve. They sell out quick

          2. I’ve been finding 9mm…223 and 243 (55 gr)…and scored some 30-06 and 30-30 (150gr), this week, but they are high. The 9 were 25.99 per box of 20, and the rest over $40 a box, but I found them and bought as many as I could!

    6. I have been on a ton of online sites and all of them are on back order or completely out. Most of the shops I have been to say they have limited quantities and for range use only. I do have the equipment and time to get licensed for full metal jacket munition manufacturing. Would anyone be interested in purchasing rounds? In time if output can pay for the licensing I will include hollow point and fluted as well. Just trying to get a feel of the market.

      1. Click-Click Boom,

        First thoughts on your query. Personally, I would not be a customer. Several reasons.

        1)-I do my own reloading. I trust myself, but few others. I suspect most other folks here would feel the same.
        2)-Where you gonna find primers? Like past times of ammo shortages, availability of components are thinning out fast. You tried to find pistol primers lately? Good luck. I have an ample supply for myself, a lesson learned from past shortages, but for a commercial endeavor?
        3)-Wasn’t aware that there was different licensing requirements to manufacture hollow point ammunition as opposed to full metal jacket. Is that a local restriction?
        4) Have you considered liability issues and the cost of insurance?

        I’ll close by saying, I might (in fact, I do) load for close friends. Most times the only payment is a smile and a thank you, knowing a similar favor is coming my way in the future.

        Good luck with whatever you decide.

        1. Dennis,

          Thanks for the input. Most people don’t reload like yourself and yes supply chain can be an issue as to one of many reasons why people don’t reload.
          The ATF has a bunch of different licenses. The moment a manufacturer has to import supplies or make there own materials like gun powder or any incendiary chemicals for primers or manufacturer certain types of munition-the paperwork, background checks and licensing costs skyrocket with the ATF. My state has zero manufacturing regulations. Currently the ATF requires $3000 application fee just for any non-FMJ munition for the general public and still doesn’t guarantee approval. Import any? $3000 and register with State Department and few other hoops to jump through. Make your own gun powder? $3000. Hollow point manufacturing? $3000. What to be a manufacturer for the government? Find a lawyer and few lobbyists.

          If you are loading for personal use-no fee or regulation. Anyone might find a supplier for hollow point or fluted but unlikely to find one for any bullet used for a military application like armor Piercing…at least one who is above board.

          1. Use a Cast Acrylic sabot, shoot a .223 out of a .308 or what ever combo you want to acquire very nice velocities for Vermin and Varmints. As always, start low powder loads and increase gradually, be careful, never use max loads, check everything after each round.

      2. Yes, I would be interested in buying ammo from you should you choose to make it available! What would a minimum purchase be for 45 acp fmj in 230 gr? Thank you

      3. Yes, I would purchase reloads as long as quality was reliably high. Once your rep is up you would do quite well. I shoot competition and am a firearms instructor. We are always recommending quality reman operators among ourselves. I’m always looking for new suppliers. If you start to reload 9mm, 556mm, etc hit me up.

    7. you’re right, its price gouging from these joints that do have some ammo. I’ll never overpay for it or ever buy from these companies ever again

      1. It’s not price gouging as nobody is forcing you to buy their goods! It’s called the law of supply and demand. So go ahead and sit on the sidelines, but I suggest you get whatever you can now at whatever prices you have to pay, because it’s going to dry up completely in the future. The globalists have planned it that way.

    8. For us old timers this is old hat. We have prepared years ago with reloading supplies with plenty of powder, lead, brass, and primers. With each vote for the left wing pinkos puts a little closer to a totalitarian government.

    9. Future. I just purchased a gen 5 glock. Love it. I ran around first day and bought up 6 boxes of +P+. Paid 1.50 a round. Put those in my extended mags and into my safe. I found one gun shop who has a couple pallets of browning 9 mm Fmj. 60 bucks for 200 rounds. They are limiting buyers to one box 200 per day. I live in eastern Missouri. I now have 1400 rnds of that.

    10. The fact is that when whoever gets in after the election it will be up to 2 years before we see a change in inventory or cost. The country is too divided!

      1. Chuck,
        Or everything will come unglued and the supply will never come back…
        Just sayin is all.
        Stranger things have happened

    11. Yes you are right, even my older WWll rifles I can’t find anything, .303 British, 6.5 Carcano, 6.5 Jap, 7.5 French. All gone !!

    12. Not here in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan….45, 223/5/56 are the last on the shelf. All other cals. including all hunting rounds unabailable. Sure am glad that I’ve been buying for many years!

  2. What is the problem?

    It may crimp our practice a little but most of us have thousands of rounds. So, the ones it affects are the pyjama boys who now are getting scared that most of the 300 million guns are in the hands of patriots.

    Like other shortages, when you are well stocked, you don’t need to pay the exorbitant price hikes caused by the rush of unprepared sheeple.

    1. @ hermit us

      I think you are making some big assumptions which aren’t fair. There are many reasons why some people were just able to buy a gun and now need ammo. Some of those reasons could be; were living in a state or where they couldn’t own a gun but have now relocated, were living in a college dorm and couldn’t own a gun, were under-age to own a gun, were outside the country an d couldn’t own a gun, lost their guns to a fire or theft etc etc. So maybe assume less and just be helpful?

      1. I speak to the people that have seen which way the wind has been blowing for many years and have prepped for as many situations as possible. I can not be held accountable for the late comers that have found themselves in circumstances of location, finances, age, …. Sometimes you can not blame the thousand for the loss of the one.

        1. Just an update to my reply to Ani as I had things to do earlier.

          The wonderful idea of our country is that the freedoms granted us by the Constitution allows us to address all the problems used by you as excuses for not being prepared. If you live in an area where you can not own a gun, then you have the freedom to move anywhere you wish. If you were under age or in a dorm, you could have a parent buy and hold your weapons, just like my dad did before I was 14 years of age. If you lost your property due to fire, theft, …. sad but most people have some kind of insurance to replace the loses.

          Most of us have had difficulties over the years working to become more self-sufficient and prepped – so don’t complain about my generalizations about people that could not, or would not rise to the challenge – yes life sometimes sucks for some. I can not carry the burden of all that may slip through the cracks.

          1. Hermit I have to agree, sometime we just have to pay the price. Sure would have been nice if I had been a little older and had a little better job back in 1964, when I could have bought silver, for a dime or a quarter or half a dollar, all I had to do was just throw my change in a bucket, but now I have to pay 15 times face. Don’t seem fair but that’s just the way life is. Trekker Out

          2. Mountain Trekker,

            Don’t feel too bad about silver costing 15X as much now as compared to 1964. You could buy a brand new Corvette for around $3,500-$4,000 in 1964. Now they cost more than 15X that. A 16oz Coca Cola cost ten cents out of a drink box, now they run 18-19X that.

            You catch my drift? I bought my first home, a 3 bedroom, 1 bath frame home on a half acre lot in 1971 for $7000 with a 10 year mortgage at $78 a month.

          3. You don’t have to go back very far to a time when 22LR was under 2 cents a round – about four or five years if memory serves. A decade or so, an Remington 870 was under $300 and bird shot was under $2 a box.

            However, if you are working a good job that keeps up with inflation, I guess everything is relative and you can still take advantage of opportunity buys. Retired people are getting hit the hardest by both, the virus and the economic squeeze.

          4. Ani

            It is a thin line between self determination/self sufficiency and socialism. I can see the indoctrination seed taking hold and spreading. The problem with socialism is that it never stops at helping a few but turns into “I deserve free shit”. You don’t know the number of people that I have tried to help, like the saying “teaching them to fish”, but many just want the fish without effort.

          5. @ hermit us

            No clue what you are talking about. There isn’t a thin line between self-sufficiency and socialism in my book. And no one is talking about gimmees and free stuff. I’m just saying that you are being mean spirited in your total dismissal of those who are either new to guns for whatever reason or those who need to buy now due to their particular situation. Having the attitude that “I’ve got mine, too bad about you” is the epitome of the prepper stereotype of a people hating loner, huddled in their bunker with thousands of rounds of ammo and cases of beans. Maybe that is you. It’s not me glad to say.

          6. Mean spirited? By telling the truth? Your complaint about “I’ve got mine, too bad about you” doesn’t represent what he said AT ALL, and yes, I know you’ll put a down-vote on this comment.

            There is a huge difference between being willing to help and being told you must.

            I guess you’re in the 2nd category, based on your comments.

          7. Lauren are you aware you posted on a 5 month old comment? A few more months and it could have delivered a baby thought :-)

          8. She repeated the same sentiment lower down. I guess I selected the wrong version.

          9. I’m using the American system of supply and demand. When I find someone that needs something more than their surplus of ammo we deal. I bought a lot from a friend that needed cash.

          10. @Ani
            I think you will find that most people on this site or preppers in general a going to have the same attitude as Hermit. I don’t feel he was being out of line i think he was being honest. I think YOU took what he was saying wrong. most of us are quite willing to HELP others but we are not going to do it for them. I always remember being taught ” an excuse no matter how good is still just an excuse” if you run into a road block then figure out a way to go around it was all he was saying

      2. Maybe they are just now buying a gun because of $900 a week unemployment… about twice as much as I make… Working

        1. Yup now that they are making more than they ever have, they can take up gun ownership and protesting.

        2. Lost my guns and ammo in house fire. Tough having to replace under these conditions. Would never think it should be so hard to get ammo for range shooting.

          1. Drew,
            450$ a week is good money in some areas of the country..
            Many people exist on $750 per month..i.t is hard for those to get things above minimal needs-is possible with diligence.No they are not able to work, they have done their time- rode hard and put up wet.

      3. The reasons you gave happen every year. If your reasons were true the ammo shortage would happen every year or at certain times through the year.

      4. …or just didn’t have the $ to stock up on primers, powder, bullets, and reloading gear.

      5. So when the food runs out and your neighbors (nice enough folks) coming beating on the doors because they were not prepared do you give them your food and let your family starve? Every man is accountable to be prepared. They chose the 65″ TV over a case of Ammo or a case of soup. Choices have consequences. Be good to each other, but don’t get caught in a feeling of guilt because you prepared.

      6. Ya, im surrounded by em, one who is a “leader” in our community said having a gun in your house will assure you are inviting violence if someone breaks in….,

        cant fix stupid

        1. Kula didn’t know AOC lived over there. What was it she said, If North Korea nuked us, Trump would probably get us in a war! Trekker Out

        2. The person breaking into the house is inviting violence. I am surprised more people don’t have 5 horsepower sausage makers or raise hogs in the country.

      7. Statistically, those things should not have increased significantly and should not affect the current “shortage.” The truth is generally not considered an “assumption.” Or mean, either.

      1. Kula and NRP

        Ani obviously thinks you should share all your supplies that you worked for over many years. This person does not understand that if all wealth was redistributed, all would have nothing. Kula you can keep 10 rounds of 22LR and NRP, you can keep one of your rolls of TP – would that be enough for the takers – not a chance.

        1. Well this particular comment thread may have scared away a newbie here on MSB. I have no idea whether or not “Ani” is a drive-by troll looking to stir it up (my initial thoughts were No). However I have a feeling that there were some early misinterpretations to what was written in the beginning of this thread. And then the ensuing bashing. I may be wrong (sometimes I am – I admit it, and will if it pans out that way), but I’m not so sure that this “Ani” is/was here as an enemy combatant.

          Newbies can be intimidated. Chest beating. I welcome the newbie crowd here whenever they do come aboard. They have many questions – some of which we had when we began this journey. Other newbies are already preppers – testing the waters here…

          End of message.

      2. KEN ,,,,, Ani is for real , is genuine. And what I know of her a good person ,she and I have different ways but would be welcome at my campfire ,at lest the one I know ,
        Troll not a chance ,,,,,

      3. With the way things are going, we just might need thousands and thousands of rounds. “Early bird gets the worm”, that’s how I’ve been getting my rounds. Constantly checking websites and gun shops daily for when they do restock, and believe me there going fast

    2. Ken

      Ani may be right about one thing. At times I can be “mean spirited” and it will take many more to opposed the hatred coming from the marxists/socialists. Sometimes movies do get the message right – when Mel Gibson was pushed too far in the “Patriot” I think it was, he got mean.

      1. Hermit,
        If someone is so bent because of a few comments on a forum they really arent ready for whats coming anyway, i doubt anyone knocking over statues, spray painting tags on everything and burning our flag gives a rats arse about anyones fragile feelings,

    3. That is the sad part of any crisis. Timing can be everything and in this case could be life or death. If anyone is just now realizing they need guns and/or ammo, it can be frightening to find nothing available. And understandable to wish the shelves aren’t cleared before you get there.

      But where there’s a will there’s a way. Mail order, order for in store delivery, order what you can find and afford. Bartering may be an option. Lurk in the gun departments and get to know staff. I got a friend who just loves tracking best deals and availability for his friends. Make the time to get it done depending on your risk assessment.

      Being prepared isn’t easy. It takes time and commitment.

    4. oldhomesteader

      You openly advocate for Rand’s beliefs set out in Atlas Shrugged. People that produce, obtain wealth and goods in exchange for their efforts. No where does it suggest that the “scabs'” should share in that earned wealth. So, when the economy went to hell, the people that could produce, did not stay and continue to support the takers but went the Gulch until the selfishness and laziness had taken it’s toll. This “mean spiritnes’ by Rand was founded on experience and knowledge of life in communist countries.

      Perhaps you could impart some history to your acquaintance about socialism or if you are so inclined, give this person several of your tractors – because this person thinks you need to share. I have no problem with charity if it is offered to someone in need but I have a big problem if someone demands something from others directly or indirectly by leaving goods you wish to purchase for your own survival.

      Sorry for the rant but remember the saying Galt required all that entered the Gulch to state and based their lives on.

      1. Hermit. ,,,,,,rant ok ,,,,,,i have had inerface with Ani before , she is in a learning curve she is not a enemy ,yet ,some come around with time and experience ,she has potential from her experience. And I like her willingness to speak out her thoughts in a civil maner
        I don’t agree whit you some times but your still welcome at my campfire. A lock step world would scare the H out of me
        I will continue to give Ani my time ,,,,,,no one cones to under stand Rand,s msg til they live it

        Till we meet ,,,tea and chocolate

      2. Ani –
        These are good guys. In fact they are exactly the sort of Preppers you referred to as needing in the community because they do freely share their wisdom and are helpful resources. I do not believe either one has a clue that you’re a SurvivalBlog contributor, nor that you wrote an article about “Reaching Out to Others May Save Our Lives” for JWR on April 30th. People are starting to move back and forth amongst different websites within the community now that the clock is ticking down, making it imperative that we gather as much info as quickly as possible. As a result, there are those of us who can see a comment from you here and link it to the broader context of what you’ve written about previously. But without that true definition underpinning the statement, it is left to interpretation. And that’s a little bit of a shame because there is merit in having the actual discussion that surrounds us here and now as a community.

        Case in point though, I wandered into a store one day and bought The Saint. Not for any particular purpose whatsoever, it just caught my eye and I wanted to own one. Fast forward a mere couple of weeks and these shortages began. Ammo for it rose in price very quickly, then depleted in stock. Great timing to buy something new and then be left with a question as to what to do about getting it loaded in the event it was needed. Your point would have been that others should have had empathy on me and left a couple boxes of 5.56 on the store shelf for me to buy. Yet to Kula’s point, how much will he need?? He has no idea what is coming, yet he knows it’s coming. Does it matter if he already has 6 boxes tucked away because he’s been diligent about procuring them as budget allows? No, I don’t think it does because I understand that all of us have an internal voice that nudges us to prep so we can defend our families. And until the voice stops nudging you, you still go out and get another bag of rice and another roll of gauze. So I don’t think he should have left it behind on a store shelf per se, although I do kind of like this new idea of a gun store keeping some ammo back in the stockroom for people to purchase when they buy a gun. Something about that rings true to me. But I missed that opportunity too, by buying a couple of weeks early. So I’m left with a couple different outcomes. I know a friend of mine would gladly take a box off his shelf and give to me to tide me over and I fully believe that both of these gentlemen would do the same for those they love. But they’d do something else that is more important – they’d give me names of other suppliers to check and they’d suggest a workaround. Both of them know far more retailers than I ever could and they would be helpful in passing those names to me. And each has enough experience to also teach me that an insert could be used, whereby a 22LR could be used in the interim until 5.56 came back to the market. Neither of which I might have known since I was basically a “new buyer” to the market.

        That knowledge transfer happens here all day, every day. I’ve been around for four years and I can tell you without equivocation that this group of people are indeed the best resources the Prepper community has. They aren’t the Lone Wolf type at all and they have tried to convert grasshoppers into ants along the way. Sadly, as you well know from your own experience, that isn’t always successful, even within your own family. Yet we will need a society around us when we get to the other side of whatever is coming. I agree with your premise that there are those that we can help save who will benefit us greatly because their survival will translate into increasing our own chances, as would be the case with a nurse to name one example. Yet much of that will rest in God’s hands in my opinion. Whoever makes it through is who we will have in our new reality. I can’t get them there personally. But I can assist with their journey to the best of my ability so they have some knowledge of skills, or ideas of where to look for resources, or even simply by offering encouragement. Everyone here will do that. They already have. And they’ll continue to do so, as the opportunities present themselves and as the situation unfolds. They will stand and fight from the beginning. And they will pick up the pieces and rebuild on the backend. As I said, this is an amazing group of people. And Ken is the epitome of a great leader, an incredible host, and also a wealth of knowledge.

      3. According to some, my not wanting to go down to stinking poverty, hunger, vulnerable, in chains, … with the unprepared sheeple is being “mean”. I guess Ken might as well forget about posting “Level Four” as it would be seen as glutenous and self-serving greed. Someone also has missed the use of the term “is 600 rolls of TP really enough” as a term for, try to be self-sufficient and cover your ass as much as possible against unforeseen disasters.

        Let me add one more virtue to be well stocked and prepared. When a disaster hits, we the prepared, will not be lined up with the idiots trying to buy bottled water at wally world. That irresponsible lack of foresight just taxes emergency response from focusing on helping the real people at risk.

        Ani, why do you think you should be the judge of how much we, the savers for our families, should be allowed to have on hand to sustain the lifestyle we worked to achieve. Sounds a lot like socialism/communism to me.

      4. Kula

        You are right that we do not know the true motivations of each other. But, I do know about human nature as recorded in history. When the disaster hits, some will step up to help others, as I have done in the past. I have also seen the other side, the majority of people that will step over you as you lay dying on the street.

        Ani may think that offering a little bit to the hordes in a crisis situation will ensure reciprocity when she needs help – dream along.

      5. Hermit,
        Agreed 100%
        People have a false sense that others will live by their values, rarely the case, especially in this day and age, perhaps in an area like N Id you can find a whole lot of folks of like mind, but in my area there is more of the collectivist BS running through our community and grows year on year, the problem is, these people preach their collectivist garbage and kumbaya but then are secretly or usually not so secretly watching out for themselves only and are not about to follow their own BS.
        Ive heard it all before,,,
        Why do yo need to buy all that TP,
        Then i go to the persons house to do a repair and low and behold, about double the stash of tp and canned stuff that i have,,,,

      6. She is 100 percent right leave some for other people if possible and that’s American all the way from 1776

      7. True but get real unless you have a full auto anything over 2500 rounds is crazy. I’ve known folks with a 100000 rounds . You really in sound mind think they need that much barring outfitting their own army.

        1. Also my Dad a highly decorated WW2 vet told me when I said I was thinking about buying a full auto “ you can shoot em faster than you can pay for em”

          1. Nothing gets a person killed faster than holding an empty weapon.

            Nothing empties a weapon faster than Full Auto, especially with the cycle rate of an M16, which is way too fast on auto.

            A full combat mag is empty in about a second and all your fired rounds, save maybe the first two, will have missed.

            Semi-auto is the only way to go, using sighted shots every time. You will kill more and use less ammo.

        2. A box of 5.56 M855 was $8.78 for 20 rounds. Today, that same box is $49.50. I only WISH I had purchased 100,000 rounds a year ago.

          Bullets do not need to be fired to be of great value, especially in bad times as these with worse to come.

          I have always invested in firearms and I have NEVER lost money…ever.

          Interestingly, in 1873 and ounce of gold could buy you a brand new Colt .45 Peacemaker. Today, an ounce of gold is worth much more than it was in 1873. But, that ounce of gold is worth is far less than the same 1873 Colt .45 Peacemaker, today.

          In fact, a new 2020 Colt .45 Peacemaker, direct from Colt, costs $1,799.00
          and an ounce of gold is valued at $1,674.00.

          A mint condition 1873 Colt .45, today, is worth several thousand dollars…

          Buy guns. Buy ammo for them. Make money and actually HAVE a tool that does something…other than look nice and hold paper down in the wind.

      8. Ani,

        Stick with us. We need all the input and perspectives we can get. Besides that…we don’t all sit around and beat our chests. Many of us have a perspective of self/familiar protection without going overboard.

    5. Interesting. Belittling others who are basically of the same mindset. Yes, I’m a conservative and a Vet, but not a prepper. I’ll take being a Pajama boy. But make dam sure you know this Pajama boy has years of experience in multiple modalities so you bust choose your words carefully if you want support in the forthcoming civil war. I have no problem putting smartass in the front lines.
      Try being respectful. It goes a long way

      1. Don

        Definitely your choice to prep or not. I also understand the numbers of people tied to the system for healthcare, welfare, social security, …. but how many in your situation, with no supplies, can be helped after day three of a disaster. Sorry, but I chose not to be in that Fema cage with the lucky ones that have not perished.

      2. Don

        People being triggered by a comment I made days ago was exactly why I said it. It goes to show how little regard some people have come to regard free speech. What did you sacrifice for, if not for our freedoms. The PC culture slowly rots away the core of our society and it will take many smartasses to fight back and take our country back.

      1. That’s the best approach of all. A friend of mine would buy one or two boxes at each gun show or whenever he went to a shop, and he accumulated quite a lot.

    6. Problem? If you shoot competitively and wasn’t reloading, you’re screwed. Reloading here I come.

    7. Ani, my local range is currently out of ammo, however, they are keeping range ammo for purchase with range time; that way you can practice your newly exercised right and not have to worry about burning through your own ammo. try any of the online websites that sell ammo. They will likely have some inventory, but the prices will be higher due to the current supply/demand. Based on the original article posted here, it is going to be many months before pricing/availability returns to normal…unless you are using your “ammo stash” at the range, backyard, or cave, pick up a 50rd box whenever you find one and you will be fine.

    8. Did you ever consider the millions of American patriots like myself who have for years owned rifles, shotguns, and revolvers but after seeing all this unprecedented nonsense decided it was time to ad an AR to the Arsenal.

    9. I have components enough for all the center fire I will ever need. I shoot 22lr almost exclusively –a lot of it. It ain’t available.

    10. Agreed. Not worried at all. People should have been stocking up the past 15 years when there was no crisis. I’m set…

    11. With the way things are going, we just might need thousands and thousands of rounds. “Early bird gets the worm”, that’s how I’ve been getting my rounds. Constantly checking websites and gun shops daily for when they do restock, and believe me there going fast

      1. Don’t you get it man? That would NEVER happen! Look up asymmetrical warfare against occupying forces,whether foreign or domestic.30+ standard cap detachable magazines fed into typical mid to medium-large N/ft-lb rounds (think .223/5.56x45mm, 7.63x39m, 30-30, arguably even 3.08, and others I’m totally missing) will be MORE THAN ADEQUATE or asymmetrical warfare. I love the second amendment don’t get me wrong, but while civilians having AR/AK-variants surely reduces interest in domestic/foreign occupation, I truly feel confident we could 99% get the “job” done simply with 12/20ga shotguns with slugs (vs. esp vs. typical police ll or IIa “handguns-only” armor with at least level 3-4 plate carriers, likely ceramic for convenience/cost reduction). Even with simply 0/00/000 buckshot, or maybe even repurposed “candle wax slugs” made from birdshot, it we’ll be enough Asymmetrical warfare explains it all. Not to be overly morbid, but don’t forget widespread knowledge to average civilians concerning ingredients as harmless as like gasoline (diesel supposedly burn more slowly), some other ingredient like lamp oi,l kerosene,butane, and loads of and loads of dissolved Styrofoam chunks from cups mixed in etc.

        All we’d need to end an occupation is minimally food, water, shelter, medicine, fire control, communications, logistical planning, and even rudimentary weapons like the 12/20ga or old lever action, maybe ~6-8 capacity, non-detachable mags for reload, and decently good options for medium or high caliber rifles. Just a few sparely used thermal/night goggles, going in and sparking quick engagements in and out with said “sniper” rifles (e.g. would 2-3 kill 2 then absolutely ditch and run with your life) when combined with 12ga :booby traps”/ shorter distance pot shots with kill 1-3 & slip into darkness s method,they’ll NEVER success it’s impossible. I hope they never have to.

        If North Vietnamese fighters can do it, so can we, simple as that.

    12. in 1979 there were 300 million guns in America we were told, then the smoke and didnt inhale president out lawed over seas weapons in 1994, 100 million were sold, 2001 till now has to be another 200 million or more, trillions rds of ammo,

  3. – All the bigger stores here are showing EMPTY shelves for virtually everything (surprisingly, there are a few boxes of .22 lr and .22 Mag available). I was able to find a little bit at a couple of smaller dealers, but very limited quantities. Prices are about double what they were back in February, and firearms, where available, are either collector grade and very few or well-used.

    I spoke with an acquaintance who owns one of the smaller stores, she tells me that burglaries of gun stores have skyrocketed in our area. Hers in on their own little compound on the edge of town, about 150 yards from her bedroom window. They have both multiple cameras, dogs, and a flock of geese on the premises. and her husband is a reserve deputy. Every little bit helps.

    – Papa S.

    1. – Sorry, got sidetracked. Meant to say she commented that even black powder firearms and accessories are bought out.
      – Papa

  4. Ammo Shortages
    One of the reasons, I don’t practice much.
    Can’t hit a starling at 30 yds with a scoped .22, but I can hit one at 11yds, out the truck window with a .45 compact.
    Maybe eye glasses are in order?

      1. minerjim

        Lol
        Yup, yup
        There’s a thought.

        Now, where is that shotgun? Which buddy has it?🤔

          1. blackjack22:
            No that was me….
            AND it happened with the Ammo also…
            Strangest thing..
            Go figure.

          2. Blackjack22
            Nope, nope not me.
            I sold all my guns, and ammo during the Obama years. Made a hellava profit, and bought many of friends.
            I just borrow said munitions.
            I’m just a defenseless, old man, that can swing a bat, corn knife and a sIcklebar.
            Maybe fling a few arrows from time to time.

          3. NRP
            Didn’t want to name drop, but I bet ole Blue is regretting that lake trip.
            Poor, dawg.
            But he did make it through, despite the loss.

  5. Still living off my 22lr supply from before the last shortage!! I did buys some 5.56 and 9mm defensive ammo a couple a weeks ago. Took all the 9mm and most of 5.56, now I wish I didn’t leave the last three boxes of 5.56 on the shelf. I didn’t want to be greedy you know!!! So, in my part of Texas it is once again tight on the ammo front.

  6. I posted a while back when I made a purchase from a small local ammo manufacturer, his issue is getting primers. Cant find them without paying through the nose. He told me primers are made in European countries (no proof on that). I did ask if made in China and he said no.

    I figure once it starts as long as you have a fairly good supply to protect yourself, you may be able to just resupply from the bodies in the street. Just need to make sure you survive that long.

    A&O

    1. P.s. try ammo seek dot com. It’s a search engine specifically for locating ammo for sale online.

      A&O

    2. When I started on this journey, I mentioned to a friend of mine I wanted an AR 15. He asked me why and I told him in case the SHTF. He said to hold out until the 2nd day and I could pick one off of the street from those that didn’t know how to use them. He cracks me up.

  7. I can still find crossbow bolts, sorta kinda fits the ammo catagory, that and combustible liquids…

  8. A lot of weapons training is easily done with pellet-BB guns using a reduced scale range. Useful for training new owners about gun safety (keep that finger off the trigger!) and use of proper sight picture. Still can get good quality air weapons that simulate real firearms very well for training. Don’t need a range but a semi-private backyard or carpet lined hallway (Command Strips anybody?) will do and no neighbors should even notice. CO2 cartridge’s by the gross are cheap compared to a box of real ammo.

    If you can hit a ping pong ball at 7 yards and keep it bouncing with that BB pistol you can deal with a real problem very well.

    Keeps the hard to get stuff safe for real situations and keeps your training up. Maybe Ken has a link to some semi-auto pistols, Revolvers and even AR BB guns?

    1. Around me even the BB guns are gone I haven’t seen pellets in about 2 months
      Occasionally see bbs the only BB guns are the really cheap ones for little kids

    2. NHM
      So true on the use of a bb or pellet gun.
      The 10×12 chicken coop is infested with mice.
      I’ll occasionally go out with the BB gun and pick off several.
      Keeps the eyes trained on critter movement.
      Now if I only had a semi or auto BB gun…….

          1. I have an AR BB gun for the kids, they love it! It shoots single and full auto. Only issue is it’s a little finicky on the gas cartridges and BBs. It likes Crossman best. Uses a lot of gas too when you go auto. BTW, I’ve been reading this site daily for a little over five years

          2. I practice with an Airsoft Sig P226 (uses Green Gas).
            It is perfect for 10-12yds indoors….

        1. AZoffgrid,

          My experience, almost forever. Can’t remember the event, but several decades ago there was a shortage of ammo and reloading components. I was able to score several thousand “magnum” rifle and pistol primers. I used them sparingly by adjusting down the powder charges in my loads. Found them in my stores fairly recently, they still work fine.

          Same with loaded ammo. I’ve got several boxes of military (U.S. Olin manufacture) .45 ACP dated 1953, never had a failure to fire.

    3. – NH Michael,
      Most of my practice right now and for the past few years has been with a Crosman 1377 bolt action pistol. At 600 fps, a .177 pellet has a pretty good thump for varmints and such. Pumping that little gun 10 times (maximum recommended to protect the seals) may be slow, but it does encourage accuracy. You don’t want to do it twice, and I currently have around 10,000 pellets on hand. It will keep you honest! I do have a few of the PBA alloy pellets, they are suppose to give up to 800/880 fps. I cannot afford to keep firing several thousand .45 rounds per year anymore, and .357 is not much cheaper.
      – Papa S.

      1. Papa Smurf
        I have the cross man backpacker in . 22
        About the same as yours but with a shoulder stock I love it
        Have an area set up in the basement so I can go down there in the winter

      2. – D B Cooper,
        I have eliminated 3 skunks (hint – shoot them through the lungs to reduce the chance of them spraying) and four raccoons with that Crosman. I can’t begin to tell you how many mice, rats, grackles and other annoyances it has gotten rid of.
        And Farmgirl, just so’s you know – I have (years ago) played with my cousin’s full-auto BB gun. (actually, it was hand cranked like a Gatling gun; tore up paper targets real nice, but I wouldn’t have one)
        Actually, I have played with a variety of machine guns and sub-machine guns. None of them are something anyone would need to keep around. Most people are doing good to hit the broad side of a barn, from the inside with one.
        – Papa

        1. Papa Smurf
          I also got a skunk 🦨 with mine it was out during the day and acting really weird
          But mostly shoot almost empty spray paint cans and targets

        2. Papa Smurf

          Well, I’m embarrassed! I thought he was joking, sheesh… I focus on what I have to become as proficient as a can, and ignore everything else. Did not know there was such a thing. Hmmmm….don’t think I’ll mention this to the boys… Thanks for the education!

  9. I was told today that our local farm store is only selling boxes of their remaining ammo stock with the purchase of a firearm.

  10. Sorry too fast, 7 yards with a pellet pistol. I see the same accuracy as a real firearm with a decent quality Pellet Revolver but it’s NOT for self defense just small pest removal and training. If you can zap a squirrel with it a real revolver and a larger target should be easy.

  11. A funny thing happened while filling out the paperwork to receive a firearm at a local gun shop the other day. When the crowd seemed to be composed of folks who would probably not be politically offended, the individual overseeing the paperwork process got up and addressed us all. “Gentlemen, if you do not think you have enough ammunition, for whatever reason, NOW is the time to get it.” Then he sat back down and continued checking his stack of forms.
    A ploy to spur sales? Someone with his ear to the ground?
    Never seen that happen before, and being in my 60’s, I’ve seen a few things.

  12. Kevin in my area I can find mostly bulk 7.5 or 8 trap loads, I love it when I can find high brass #4 or so. Both are good for training and inside the home quite effective. Even at the gun stores I visit buck and slug is rare and expensive.

    1. yeah slugs are hard to find around here as well i stocked up 00buckshot so as far that goes im ok slugs not so much

  13. Posted yesterday about no 9mm or.40 at local rural king. Today they had small stack of both. Bought 2boxes each just because.saw one guy take last 20 boxes .270 thought to myself now that’s just greedy.I asked sales person when next shipment would come She said just a trickle now and then.Their sale add for this week showed 1600 rds.556 $800 she said they got 2 cases in both sold same day, no raincheck on ammo!

  14. One thing to help everyone with ammo conservation. Make sure to get yourself a good laser bore sight. They make them with a high visible green laser nowadays. This will get you on the paper at 100 yds. Which is good enough to temporarily deal with those 2 legged critters running amok … your not looking to go competition shooting any time soon so putting lead on the target is the main concern.

    You can try ‘Sight Mark Triple Duty Laser Bore Sight Green laser’ Attaches magnetically to the end of any rifle or pistol

    Make sure to clear your weapon first Darwins… Stay Safe Good luck!

  15. Ammo?
    Don’t need any since I lost all my firearms to Navajo Lake in a boating accident.
    I did call 4 of the local Gun Shops to see what they have or would have, I hate it when people I know just laugh at me and hang up…. UGHHHHH

      1. I’m offering up .45 Ranger T
        1 round per roll
        It’s a close relative of the black talon defensive rounds.

        Actually an even trade : )
        I like downy soft.

  16. Well….my experience is going to be the exception to all of the other comments I’ve read about ammo. It could be that the demographics in my area account for it, but I can still find ammo for anything I’d be interested in. Provided I were interested, of course, just speaking theoretically here. My area is an exciting blend of ‘woke’ progressives (what they call themselves) and families who can count back generations. The ‘woken’ aren’t into guns at all, to put it mildly, and the founding descendants are probably pretty well stocked up, for hunting and such.

    I don’t go in for those nasty gun thingys, but I have a friend who does. My friend said plenty of 9mm, 00 12 gauge shells, .22LR, and 5.56Nato/.223. Lots of other stuff, too, but my friend wasn’t interested in those. Maybe because it’s a shop located in a tucked away location, or maybe it’s a small community with demographics as described, but one can still purchase an AR-15 platform rifle here. My friend did that a few weeks ago. I tried mentioning that violence isn’t the answer, turn the other cheek, and can’t we just meet hate with love, and all that. To each his own, I guess… ;-)

      1. Chevy

        Just having a bit of fun. Besides, I cannot begin to tell you how much of a benefit it is these days for a lowly Farmgirl to be completely misread, misunderstood, and most importantly, underestimated. Keeps me safe.

        1. Farmgirl

          Yep. When they underestimate you, you’re invisible. They never see you coming.
          Soundtrack – wicked witch cackle

  17. While I no longer own or shoot those evil black guns, here is some food for thought.

    Ammo shortages yes, they are here and depending on the election, likely to stay with us for months. Some oddball caliber ammo is still plentiful and cheap. So is AK47 ammo.

    Not to step on anyones toes but we had three golden years of plentiful and stupid cheap firearms and ammo. THREE YEARS!

    A year ago today you could get 1000rds 5.56 Lake City ammo for under $200 DELIVERED to your door.

    Summer 2019 also saw a fully assembled 16” PSA carbine for less than $390 SHIPPING INCLUDED to your FFL.

    Ammo and firearms shortages, historically, have been as common as interns kneeling under Bill Clintons desk.

    We all had ample time to stock up. If not, we only have ourselves to blame.

    1. I am experiencing smug satisfaction in seeing those who waited until now to attempt to find firearms and ammo pay hefty premiums for their procrastination. I suspect that their woefully overdue efforts to obtain the means of self-defense are indicative of their lack of preparedness with regard to the other legs of the “preparedness triad,” beans and band-aids, too.

      In a similar fashion, Florida, for example, appears to be filled with plenty of people who wait until a Level 4 hurricane is barreling toward their part of the coast before they head to Home Depot or Lowe’s to buy plywood and generators. For a great many of them, it becomes a classic case of “If you snooze, you lose.”

  18. Just my own flawed opinion but ammo shortages will produce better, more disciplined shooters.

    Gone are the days of aimlessly blasting through 1000rds at the range, unless you have money to burn.

    If you learn to incorporate dry fire into your training, you can become quite a good shooter even with limited training ammo.

    Not all firearms training is ammo dependent.

  19. As I was reading this they were showing a segment on the local 6pm news from Des Moines on this subject. Iowa CC permit requests have tripled in the last 6 months over same time last year. They are good for 6 years here. Gun range owner they interviewed says most are new to “the second amendment “. My ex military husband who taught me to shoot at military gun clubs in Europe way back always keeps a good stock of ammo and our grown son came by to ask for a higher caliber handgun from our collection because his workplace is near where they have been protesting in Des Moines, although he lives on a homestead in the country. He got some ammo too. He’s also ex military.
    The weapon and ammo situation is the same here as elsewhere. I prefer a shotgun for home defense, although I have a nice 9 mm Sig for my backup.

    1. Now is the time to become an expert of manual of arms (how your gun functions) with your own personal firearms.

      Draw stroke, presentation and sight alignment/picture is not ammo dependent.

      Learning about and clearing malfunctions is not ammo dependent.

      Magazine changes and firearms transitions are not ammo dependent.

      Shooting position transitions and practice is not ammo dependent.

      You can do a heluva lot of high quality training with a shot timer, some paper targets, a few empty mags and zero ammo.

  20. Anyone ever heard of, cut shotgun shells, the homemade slug? Buy all the #8 you can.

    1. Stand my Ground cut shells are useful BUT use them only in single shot or double barrel shotguns. Also check your bore after you shoot them, My Grandfather used the deer hunting in the Great Depression and he showed me his old shotgun with a ring bulge as the shot parted ways from the cut shell and the second shot created that bulge. Shotgun still shot well but…

      Do not use cut shells with a pump or autoloader shotgun. If the reloading action stresses that cut you might have loose shot in your shotguns action.

      I also understand with a little work you can open a trap shell and replace that bird shot with something better? Lead casting isn’t that hard.

      Disarmed is a state of mind. The Jews in the Warsaw Ghetto were disarmed but with treachery and an iron pipe they acquired weapons from unwary German Soldiers to fight until they were killed by tanks and flamethrowers. A sock with a rock is still a effective weapon.

  21. Been buying 9mm and 30-06 a box at a time. My store has what looks like a lot, but is only selling it one box per day in each cal. An aside that you might find amusing; they also sell hand sanitizer and toilet paper by the case as an added service to their customers. When everyone was going crazy for T.P. (I had plenty) I picked up a case while I was buying ammo.

  22. I buy only one particular 5.56 Nato round with its penetrating projectile. I knew ammo was going to vanish, so I purchased plenty. I have more than enough ammo to outlast my life, once I begin to send it down range at the enemy. Should I survive the first 200 rounds, I shall be very amused.

  23. – When I was in the local farm store today, they had a line of about ten people buying firearms. Most were looking at the few handguns they had in the display case; a couple of folks were looking at AR- types. (I figure I am in deep kimchee should firearms ownership ever become an issue. I’m on way too many lists.)
    I have spoken with the clerk, not necessarily the one on duty today, and have been told they keep some ammunition in the back that is only available to those people actually buying a firearm (very limited quantity, like maybe three boxes)
    – Papa S.

    1. Yes, I ran into the that situation in Sportsman’s Warehouse last Tuesday. They are keeping some ammo back for customers buying firearms.

  24. Picked up a Mossberg .410 pump last month as a Critter Gitter. Looked at my usual source for ammo as the place I purchased the gun at did not have any .410 shells. My online source only had 6’s, 7’s, and 8’s, nothing for defense against BLM’s (Big Lying Marxists). Sure wish I hadn’t sold off all of our Black Rifles and Glock, dang it!

  25. I recently talked with a local gun shop owner who made the statement that with this ” pandemic “, that they can’t inventory on hand and when they order something, they might get it and then again they might not. Another thing he said was ” if you think things are bad now, things will be a lot worse if Biden gts in “.

  26. Bought 1 box of 9mm FMJ 115 grn steel case 150 rnds for $40, bought 1 box of 40SW 180grn JHP 50 rnds $40, 1 box of .380 çritical defense 25 rnds $26. They had tons of 12 slug, but no buckshot to be found. I was surprised I found any defensive rounds. The store owner was assembling AR 15’s but I think they were flying off the shelves as fast as he put them together. Store was crowded. Bought AR and G17 mags 2ea. and a weapon light/laser combo too.

  27. local farm store today central wi.
    hand gun ammo 4/5 gone.
    popular rifle ammo.. of 7 4′ shelves there is enough to fill a single shelf.
    wish I could post pictures, explains more to see it.

  28. Love that I own a .35 ! The Marlin .336round is still available , it’s one of the only ammo I was able to find due to its becoming nearly obscure.

  29. I have been observing ammo drying up since the start of the new year in my AO. ( Area of Operation )

    For years, I have purchased new pistol ammo for purposes of reloading the brass with a good quality hollow point bullet at later time. A good % is used for reloading target grade ammo for practice/tournaments or teaching other new shooters ( something I do through my local club on an increasing basis these days ).

    Several people who have purchased guns from me in the past calendar year: one is a rancher whose house burnt down. He works at my place of work for an in-town job and he raises beef cattle locally. He bought a 20 gauge shotgun from me with 2 boxes of duplex loads for anti-coyote repellent a week after his house burnt down. ( still have to keep the coyotes away with cows in the field.). He recently purchased a striker-fired 9mm from me (Ruger) and was gifted 100 rounds of 9mm FMJ and 50 rounds of JHP in the midst of the COVID19 Lockdown. Price was kept minimal as this was a used gun and he is a friend that is selling me beef later this fall.

    The other person that purchased ammo from me is a hip young urbanite that also works with me. He bought himself a Glock 19 and was able to find some ammo online but has been unable to buy hollow point ammo. I like working with this fellow so he was sold some hollow point ammo during the lockdown because you could not find a box anywhere locally. ( sensible young man that made a solid choice in handgun ).

    In both cases, one lost his home and belongings. The other was a young man that turned 21 not long ago, married and purchased a handgun for protection of his pregnant wife and self because he is genuinely frightened by what he sees happening in the world around them.

    It is easy for us older citizens to forget what it was like to be young and frightened enough to go out and make your first firearms purchase. I would encourage many on this site to not be too smug about our situations in regards to ownership and storage of goods because, as my rancher friend found out, you can lose everything very fast in a house fire.

    At my local shooting club- observations: Fewer participants at shooting tournaments. Those that do show up are those that reload and have components. ( powder, primers, brass etc.). People are still walking away from once fired brass in 9mm, 40 S&W and 380. Our range is right down the road from a recycler so the ground gets cleaned and the brass and steel shells gets taken there once a month to be sorted, cleaned and melted down. ( along with copper from bullet jackets ). The lead is gathered by several local bullet makers one of which has a deal with our club to sell bulk bullets with a member discount.

    I am not sure if this is a shortage of manufacturing or if it is another case of people out there hoarding again. ( I suspect the latter ) At least this time around, the kids can go out shooting with their parents or grandparents because 22 rimfire is still available. so…beyond being safe out there with our things-that-go-bang, pass on the gift of safe gun handling to our next generation.

  30. In regards to the use of a shotgun for defense of self from large critters:

    Look up: Death in the Long Grass by Peter Capstick. He is the only American author I know of that spent time hunting leopards in Africa and hunting jaguars in Central and South America using a short barreled 12 gauge and using buckshot. ( the shotgun was used to follow up on wounded leopards in the tall grass while guiding clients in Africa ).

    Capstick is the only writer I know of that wrote extensively on considering other sizes of shot in 12 gauge shotshells as well. He is now deceased. His books are worth obtaining in hard copy through St Martin’s Press, New York.

    Among his advice through his many books and articles:

    #1 Never underestimate the power of a 12 gauge trap or target load. though they are designed to take down dove, quail or break clay, at close range they will do terrible damage to the face of a lion. ( he was surprised by a snare-wounded lioness while hunting francolin in Africa ).

    #2 Americans have a love affair with the 00 buckshot round in 12 gauge. ( originally developed as an anti-personnel load to be used within a 10 gauge shotgun by the US Postal Service back in the day when mail went by train and Butch and Sundance were still taking down trains for their living ). Consider reloading your 12 gauge hulls with #1 buckshot because it stacks in layers of 3 pellets giving you greater number of lethal pellets within a given amount of space and you give up very little in terms of penetration.

    #3 This does not come from Peter Capstick. This is from my own experience and Mas Ayoob has also advocated for: Smaller statured shooters that have trouble using a 12 gauge may do better with a 20 gauge shotgun that fires a load of #3 or #4 buckshot. ( pellets are roughly 22 or 23 caliber in size ).

    My wife is all of 5 foot 0 inches in height and her arms are kind of short. She shoots her 20 gauge quite well and has about 50 rounds of #4 buckshot rounds with her shotgun. She now feels safer within our home if bad things were to try to hurt her or her dog.

    Round ball molds in 30 caliber can be obtained from Blackpowder shooting supply ( I forgot the name of the company back east ). I obtained my #4 buckshot mold from Cabela’s years ago. It was manufactured by Lee. Buckshot can be purchased by Hornady in various sizes through Midway/USA.

    Hope this helps! A shout out there to Joe C and other shotgun shooters out there.

    1. Calirefugee,

      Good post. A good shotgun should be in every prepared home. It’s versatility as a homestead (and prepper) gun is only matched by a .22 rimfire rifle. Each have, what I consider, indispensable attributes.

      The third homicide I encountered in south Dallas (my second day on the streets) was a black man shot point bank in the stomach with a 12 ga. loaded with #6 shot. Very little blood due to the small intestines that had mushroomed out of the hole in his stomach sealing off the wound. He died before the ambulance arrived. Sounds silly now, but raw rookie that I was, I wet a cloth at the kitchen sink and draped it over the intestines to keep them moist as our training instructed.

    2. Calirefugee any thoughts about opening new bulk trap loads and replacing the 7.5 or 8 shot with something better? Any safety tips or tricks for new to reloading about how to open them up and reseal them for use again? I’ve opened both the paper and plastic shot shells with a jackknife before. I thought about resealing them with superglue but was afraid I’d raise the case pressure too much?

      I know in the Great Depression between the lack of OR cost of buckshot-slugs Deer were taken with cut shells and reloads were an oddity. Maybe for lack of the tools needed? I read somewhere about field reloads being done with very little equipment?

      Nobody I know has enough buckshot-slugs and bulk trap loads are everywhere.

      1. I have mixed silicone with pellets and filled the shell to good effect. I used 2 part, but if you mixed some cornstarch with caulk, it should set (otherwise, it won’t get the moisture it needs). You’re adding weight, so use fewer pellets.

    3. CaliRefugee,

      Thanks for the comment about your wife’s 20 gauge. I’ve been considering getting something smaller than the 12 gauge pump currently behind my bedroom door. What mfr/model does she have? Last gun show I went to had a bunch of Mossberg 20s, but they had the pistol grip and I think I’d rather have a regular shoulder stock. Not sure if there’s an aftermarket replacement. Have actually considered a “youth” model, but then barrel length is a little long for home defense. Any recommendations?
      Thanks!

  31. Blackpowder shooting supply company that sells roundball molds of various sizes: Dixie Gunworks

  32. Correction: Peter Capstick’s Death in the Dark Continent was the name of his book where he talks of taking the Big 5 of Africa. The Leopard being the 5th animal mentioned. He spends much time talking of firearms and ammo he used to do this work.

    Not many people made a living by putting down a charging animal. My own experience was with black bears gone rogue within National Parks. I have my own set opinions about what works these days too.

  33. I may have been buying ammunition throughout this.

    It is out there, but not as cheap as it was. $.24 for 115gr FMJ 9 or $.38 for 55gr FMJ 5.56 vs $.16 and $.23.

    The rest still exists but it is off its historic lows also.

    If you go up market it is easy to find. There is even rebates on it.

    We have a large portion of the population enjoying trumpbucks and an early credit on their 2020 taxes. Ammunition manufacturing doesn’t usually outpace consumption.

    The weird part is that it is a mid-term election year and usually things don’t get like this.

    The crazy part is … Parts. Have you tried to find a Austrian lower parts kit lately? Even Midway had them for $40 6 months ago. Now you’re lucky to find a Lone Wolf kit for $70. That is when you should be worried.

  34. There are no specifics about where the bottleneck is regarding the ammo supply chain. Lot’s of questions that haven’t been answered. We haven’t heard much about the status of U.S. ammo manufacturers, which are “essential businesses” during the COVID pandemic. Are the ammo manufacturers still working at full production capacity? If not, what is the reason? Lack of components (i.e., primers, casings, propellants, etc.)? Lack of labor? It all starts with the ammo manufacturers. The unless there is a lack of components or labor, the ammo manufacturers should be operating 24/7 to meet demand.

    1. JN, I have wondered this myself. What is the “specific” reason. Haven’t heard any reporting. However, in my opinion, it is an example of disrupting the JIT system (just in time) which nearly every business uses today. Here’s a related article on it – though about food:

      [ Read: JIT – Food Disaster Looming ]

    2. One reason was the EPA going after smelters. The Herculaneum smelter in Mo. was the only one in the United States that could produce lead bullion from raw lead ore- a “primary smelter”. It closed about 6 years ago? during Obama. I don’t know of any others now open in the US.

      1. Trey, I remember that – during the Obama years. Sort of forgot about that. Going after the ammo. That’s one sneaky way to do “gun control”. Additionally, I have a feeling that ammo shortages might have to do with the times we’re living in right now, with way more concerned Americans buying guns and ammo. Lets hope the manufacturers can ramp it up… !

    3. JN,
      I saw some numbers the other day that indicated that they are not able to keep up with demand.
      Are.gov contracts for billions of rounds being fulfilled at the same time?

  35. My wife and I both use Remington 870’s in 20 and 12 gauge.

    I helped the police armorer fix, maintain and replace worn parts on patrol car shotguns for several departments over the years in California prior to leaving. I never got a trade school certificate. I use been using and carrying Remington 870’s since age 11 for work and play in farm fields.

    I’m not saying one is better than the other. Rem 870’s are just what was always around at work and home is all.

  36. Just bought 100 rounds 38 spec full metal jacket for total of $70 from bulkammo.com. That’s going to have to last until this shortage is over.

  37. The discussion is OVER. Time to take action and stop bitching about the future. It will get worse. Plan on it.

    Brownells.com: Gold Medal Match (excellent ammo) .308 Win, IN STOCK…200 rnds for $268.99. $1.34 per round but it is available.
    I started reloading 3 years ago and am stocking up on bullets, powder, primers and new casings if I can find them. That’s the way to go.
    Keep your powder dry.

  38. Reply to NH Michael: by the way, I’m sorry to hear about your mom’s passing & dads status. I wanted to pass on my condolences.

    My reply is a day late because it required some research and confirmation. My source book for info regarding shotshells and reloading using buckshot comes from the manual:

    Reloading for Shotgunners by Kurt D. Fackler and M.L. McPherson.

    This is the same manual I recommended to Joe C. on this site. To make field-expedient buckshot loads from trap loads these days, I have done (as an experiment) and lived to tell the tale (no bulged barrels, I have all my fingers, toes and both eyes are intact and functioning) the following to trap or target loads:

    Most target hulls are plastic and they are sealed with a crimp over a measured portion of #7.5 or #8 sized shot. ( 1 or 1-1/8 oz shot weight ).

    #1 I cut the crimp off (carving forward toward the muzzle end of how the shell will feed). I use a sharp knife and go around the crimp of the shell in order to remove the crimp only. ( I try to not remove too much plastic.)

    #2. I remove the top portion of plastic, dump out the shot (I save the shot in order to melt down for later use) and replace with similar volume of buckshot. ( #3 or #4 buckshot in a 20 gauge shell. #1 buckshot in a 12 gauge shell. )

    THIS IS SAFE BECAUSE: volume per volume, buckshot is lighter in weight than a similar volume of smaller birdshot. As long as you do not try to overstuff the fingers of the shot cup on the wad, you are operating in safe pressure territory.

    #3. I seal the top with an overshot card made from either a paper index card or a piece of plastic cut from a old milk or juice jug. One can use a dime or a penny as a template to make lots of them with a marking pen and a pair of sharp scissors.

    #4 I finish the load with a single wrap of masking tape around the top of the shell and folded onto the overshot wad. ( I’m of Japanese heritage so origami is a thing for me.)

    Caution: these loads are not waterproof though most shotshells will not do well being total immersion. These loads will come apart in the washing machine and may come apart in the pocket of your field jacket.

    I have and use a MEC 600 Jr in both 12 and 20 gauge. I also have the MEC collet resizing tool for 12 gauge because I used to resize and reload buckshot hulls ( high brass ) from several police agencies. In using the MEC machine, it reproduces the factory crimp so I have to remark the exterior of my buckshot reloads to avoid possible confusion. ( sharpie permanent marker)

    Over the years, and to this day, most of my shotshell components are Winchester brand because I can find them and they always seem to be available. AA hulls, Win 209 primers, AA poly form wads, a big keg of Red Dot powder for both 12 gauge shotshells and lead bullets from all my handguns.

    A standard Trap load firing a load of buckshot is the basis of my “light buckshot loads” created for female prison guards and police officers because they rounds will put down larger dogs within 20 yards with less recoil than standard, magnum buckshot available out there when times were good. ( shotgun qualification for smaller statured female officers was and still is a painful ordeal ).

    This should get you started. Try to find a friend local that has a reloading press for shotshells and start saving target hulls and high brass heavy loads. ( I do not buy promotional loads these days because they are made so cheap that they will come apart within the action of your shotgun and you end up picking out parts of shotshell holding up your fellow trap shooters or the dove go flying by- in any case, NOT GOOD! ).

    1. Thanks Calirefugee for the information and the condolences. After 16 days my demented father finally asked “where is my wife?” and I had the sad duty to tell him she died July 4th. Hurts to see such a gentle old man in anguish. I feel the Angel of Death nearby.

      So in short carefully cut the top rim off, dump the shot for reuse, fill with better shot, place a wad over it and tape closed?

      How do I know it’s promotional loads with the lousy shot shells? Are the bulk trap loads ok?

      Always hug your wife and spin those cats friend.

  39. I have been visiting here off and on for a number of years and thought I might write. Re: ammo shortage. I think this is a cyclic event and this time is different because added to the list of regular shooters and preppers and ammo hoarders is the new group of 1st time gun owners. Hunting license purchases have not gone up. I was on travel near D.C. last month and watched a news feature (very positive!) about the huge number of 1st time black women pistol-buyers in the area. It was the only thing positive about pistols I have seen in the mainstream news in a very long time. Many people, even those that dislike guns of any kind, see their value when large groups can evade their space or threaten their life or livelihood. This shortage will run up until there is an abundance again and since more people purchased and more people hoarded, the amount of ammo and cost savings available during that abundance will be a good time to stock up again. Note. After that period there will be another shortage. And after that another abundance. This will be followed by a shortage.

  40. I understand that the episode with the Black Panthers in the 60’s & 70’s led to more gun restrictions in California.
    Will the NFAC result in the same thing? In GA., KY.?

    1. I’ll answer my own question.
      “ Open carry being blamed for violence in Atlanta “ on captainsjournal. 2A restrictions to follow ?
      Louisville, KY. Is next. July 25.
      Will open carry be blamed ?
      Will 2A restrictions follow ?

      1. JN 3:16 – Care to elaborate? Wife and I are actually right by the ‘ville. What am I missing? Haven’t been paying too much attention to the Breonna Taylor shooting hoopla nor any of the mess downtown. I do carry. Thanks much.

          1. MSG12B,
            Concerned about an outcome similar to the Mulford Act of 1967.

      2. So far, Louisville has to abide by Frankfort’s rules. They both have anti-gun Democrats in charge though so who knows. At this point I think we still have the majority against any new anti 2nd amendment laws. I have wondered about whether the NFAC would get stupid here when they return (assuming they do). I was actually a little surprised when the gun went off last visit that it was only them shooting at each other (ND).

  41. Reply regarding “promo loads”or promotional loads: Usually put out by major manufacturers like Winchester, Federal or Remington-Peters. Discount dove loads available by the pallet several days prior to dove season in the Southwest.

    I oz #8 shot with 2.5 drams very low price with deals like 4 boxes available for further discount. These have largely replaced people reloading their own trap/target loads out there unless and until you obtain a box/case of bad ones.

    “brass” base is cheap metal that is prone to being ripped by the extractor of pump or autoloading shotguns. The base of the shell holding the primer is a cheap composite of glue and cardboard and the plastic walls of the case are thinner. All this leads/can lead to a failure to feed/eject empty round after the shot has been sent downrange.

    While this can be irritating on the trap range, it is frustrating on live birds or other game. A jammed up weapon when you are hungry and watching dinner scamper or fly away has really made me angry in the past and I have never had that happen to me when facing dangerous animals that have charged me. ( Bear #3 I was purchasing my own ammo out-of-pocket because my backside was on the line )

    All the more reason to take a sample of the new ammo and test it to see how it performs prior to purchasing a case of the stuff. ( saves money ). Best to find out about ammo limitations before the bear is charging you.

    For the record, I have had good luck and no bad experiences using Estate shot shells from my local Bimart or from Farm Supply. I have grocery sacks full of 1x fired AA shotshells but it is cheaper to buy Estate shells than to reload at home.

  42. Great post Frozin_Chosin: I also obtained an AR platform when I left Cali and went to another state where there are fewer restrictions. I left some ammo, supplies and lead ingots to my local gun club before I left the “Golden State” for greener pastures.

    Most of us who got into reloading have done so years before Ken started this site. If you are going to hunt varmints year-round and/or compete in competitions, reloading becomes a necessity. ( I used to do both butt, given a choice, I would rather spend a day in the varmint fields as opposed to going to another tournament.)

    Ken did a survey months ago where asked us reloaders for data ( price of components and powder ). In the end, you do not save money by reloading because you end up shooting more.

    Some things have changed such that I no longer reload for some things: Standard trap loads because the price of lead shot has gone up so much it is cheaper to purchase a box from Farm Supply and you were always able to find these rounds during the last ammo drought.

    During the last ammo drought, I did consider obtaining a specialized lead melter that allows you to pour your own shot at home. Final analysis: I am not that hard core where I need or am willing to lay out the expense of pouring my own shot at home and creating a 2 story shot-pouring tower in my backyard.

    Reloading is much like gardening: The longer you do it, the more knowledge you accumulate. Among that knowledge is the observation of times of “feast and famine”. We are now in time of famine yet one can still find components available so I would say that now is a great time to get started in reloading. If a store does not have a component, come back another day.

    On the topic of saving the environment: Joining a local gun/shooting club that allows one to gather lead and brass is environmentally sound because: on a periodic basis, the facility gets shut down in order to clean the grounds more thoroughly and sends the heavy metals to a local recycler. Reclaimed lead in the form of ingots, shot and cast bullets are, once again put back in circulation for people to use. My local club does this. Every club I belonged to in Cali also had a recycle program going as well.

  43. WallyW, today still no canned peaches, did buy tp don’t yet need.no yeast, little flour, baking goods in general very low.still no Clorox wipes 4 months in a row. Finally mandatory mask rule, yet saw several without. Local Rural king farm store had few rifle shells bought 2 boxes each .308& 30.06.virtually no handgun ammo.Looks like you should determine biggest current stock of shells in whatever cal. Then buy new gun accordingly. Although I’m well supplied all the way around. Hmmm, maybe I could use a new .270 after all! It is a caliber I don’t currently own and they did have 20 boxes of .270 rounds🤔

  44. Stopped by Cabela’s today @ 1 pm to look for a 20 gauge. Was told that the waiting list to approach the firearms counter was closed for the day. Best to be there by 8 am Monday through Thursday to sign up for a time. And that the weekends were a nightmare so don’t even bother.

    1. Anony Mee:
      Excuse me, did I read that right?
      A “waiting list to approach the firearms counter”????
      Seriously????
      OMG people we’re so screwed….

        1. Anony Mee:
          Wow and I mean WOW
          For all those doubters out there…
          There is your sign.

          PS: Just try to get ammo for that firearm you MIGHT get.

          Anony Mee: Thanks for the reality check.
          Pay attention people, this ain’t Toilet Paper we’re talking about.

          1. NRP & Blue . . .

            Good boy, Blue. . . .

            Used to be take a number and wait to be called. Folks would still prowl the counter looking at options and getting in each other’s way while waiting to be called. . . .

            I presume it’s mostly overwhelming demand leading to excessive crowding and anxiety at the counter. The virus and guv’na’s requirement for social distancing in retail locations just reinforces the prudence of, and justifies the practice of, reducing numbers at the counter. Inconvenient to be sure, but I think I will prefer a quieter counter to the last time I was there for similar purpose. Nice to be retired and able to adjust to their availability; do not envy folks who are limited to weekends.

    2. Anony Mee and NRP,
      I’ll second NRP’s “Wow”.

      Many of us felt it coming, and now feel it getting worse by the day, some days worse by the hour.

      It’s waking up every morning knowing there will be more bad news that day, and knowing we are still in the early days of all of this.

      I can’t imagine how a person who is just starting to recognize what us going on around us would feel right now. Shocked, frightened, wondering where to turn?

      For anyone out there who is just starting to prep – you best get moving now. No more time to wonder if you should get started, or how to start. Get what you can as quickly as you can… the window is damn near closed now.

  45. There are 2 gun store within 1/4 mile of me. Haven’t been in one of them in a while as he is very expensive, but the other one has ammo. I just bought 2 100-round bags of bulk .357 Mag for $32.00 per 100. They have all kinds of ammo.

    The second store is an older store and I think they run sales to get people to come in and pull people away from the new store.

    Not that I really need more ammo (I must have 40K rounds) , but it never hurts to have it.

    Better to have it then to not have it and need it.

  46. I’ve gotta tell ya… the site AmmoSeek.com has worked out well. I’ve been able to do some substantial “topping off” (though can you ever have enough? ;) )

    1. Ken, ammo seek has been my go to for years when I needed 9mm. It was always as cheap to buy as reload. Sometimes I would have an oddball like .357 sig or 9×18 to shoot for test/eval purposes. Ammoseek is wonderful for a old man that cant’ spend his whole day searching the internet.

  47. Left Marxists? Lmao what sensationalist BS. If ammo shortages continue post pandemic due to Biden winning, we only have ourselves to blame for needlessly panic buying.

    Especially considering Trump “Take their guns first, then due process” 2A record is shitty anyways.

    1. Jason

      Go crawl back under your bridge and squat in the darkness, you ignorant troll.

        1. tmcgyver . . .

          At your service. . .

          So sorry for the uproar the test results have caused you, your company, and your clients that need servicing. . .
          Here’s hoping you had no or very little exposure. . . Hearing that low viral exposure tends to lighter infection and symptoms.

  48. I can’t even find any primers for sale other than large rifle and shotgun. Not too mention the press I was interested in is also sold out. Last I knew my small local gun shop still had a decent amount of 9mm. I have plenty of ammo and magazines for a good gun battle, but I just want to target shoot!! Lol

  49. I think shortages are going to be the new normal for all kinds of products. Ammo being only one of them.

    I see this going on for several years.

    Plan ahead and be ready to buy it now when you find something you need or want.

    There will always be oppertunities to get things if you plan ahead and or understand the laws of supply and demand and are willing to pay a bit more then others are.

    I keep $500.00 in my van at all times to take advantage of spurr of the moment deals.

    1. Local gun store in Woodbridge, VA received pallets of ammunition, Barnaul 300 ACC Blackout, FMJ 145 gr (Steel Casing). $12.99 per box: 20 or $$324.75 per case: 500. I got 1,000 rounds to stay afloat during the shortage.

  50. My gun shop is limiting 100rds per caliber per brand a day so I’m just going daily 500rds a visit. American eagle 223 $9 for 20 and blazer 124 9mm for $14 isn’t terrible I’ll take what I can get.

  51. – In WW yesterday on unrelated issues; picked up couple more of last boxes of 16 ga. #6’s for inherited SxS. That puts that particular gun up around 100 or so rounds. Unfortunately, nothing but birdshot seems to be available for that gun. Didn’t have time to research anything else, but still seems relatively well stocked.

    – Papa S.

    1. – Probably should explain, never been a big shotgun fan. My only shotgun until a few years ago was my Savage 24-C; 20 gauge single shot with a .22 single shot barrel along for the ride. I do have a couple hundred shells for it, bird, buck and slug. Where I live is scoped rifle country, and I have a couple thousand for those. Just inherited that double a couple of years ago; DW and her brother neither one wanted it. So, maybe one of these days I’ll take it out and see if it works.
      – Papa

    2. Papa Smurf did you happen to see Calirefugees reply to me about changing out the shot of a shotgun shell? I was talking about the 100 rd boxes of bulk trap shot but he walked me though remaking them with whatever shot load you wanted. Seems the main pressure is how heavy is the shot replaced. Birdshot being smaller is by volume heaver than buckshot so no problem. I’d not run them through a pump action or an autoloader but otherwise I’d trust them.

      If you were closer I’d happily trade you for that Savage 24-C. I had one and it was a handy tool around the barn. No critter problem aside from a Grizzly would I be concerned about and happily I don’t live in Grizzly land :-)

      1. – NH Michael,
        In actuality, that 24-C is my favorite just out messing around/foraging gun. I have actually used cut shells in a previous life/locality, in Dad’s old single-shot 12 g Long Tom Winchester.
        The 24-C will happily put 3 slugs in the Ace of the Ace of Spades at 50 yards (or meters if you prefer), and will match a pretty potent centerfire rifle in horsepower. I really wouldn’t even be overly concerned for a grizzly with it and its stock cuff in place. I have practiced with it more than a little, and can manage a pretty quick reload.
        Mostly I was griping about not being able to find much of anything in 16 gauge, which I would like to have around as long as it is in my safe. I am just gradually adding what I can for that particular gun.
        – Papa

        1. – Oh, and by the way – I have done just what Cali recommended, long ago. Shotguns just are not my favorite thing to shoot. His explanation just didn’t need any input from me.
          – Papa

        2. Yep Papa Smurf you ARE one of my relations!! :-) Cut shells and all.

          I’ve actually looked at one of those pre-charged Pneumatic 50 cal rifles as a potential quiet game getter. Yes I am aware they are loud for an air gun but what a muffler might do for them? As they are not a firearm I hope the regulations about quieting them down is not yet written (but no doubt will be).

          I cannot find a dump valve to finish the 72 caliber smoothbore one I built. Nothing so far I’ve tried releases the charge quickly enough to be effective. Any ideas? I kind of like the idea of a Lewis and Clark style Air Rifle that all I have to do is recharge and melt recycled lead for. That musket sized bore could do shot and ball pretty well I hear.

          As far as 16 gauge ammo I have found new-old stock at various older gas stations around here. They tend to have a few boxes of older ammo in the back if you ask. Never had a misfire from them yet.

          1. NHM,
            The valve you are looking for is an airgun “poppet”valve. Search online, I saw a couple of articles just yesterday.

          2. – NH Michael,
            Actually suppressors for air guns are legal, in fact they are part of some of the over-the-counter air guns available. At least currently. You might look at some of the suppressor sites out there for a build-your-own idea for your homebuilt. I looked at them as well, but all the OTC versions I saw were just a little too pricy. I figured I would end up with Joe c.’s crossbow instead. I found a decent one for $150 that DW thinks she might want.
            Very few of the older gas stations around here even have .22 anymore.
            – Papa

          3. Papa Smurf a x-bow is actually the most realistic plan. With a blunt bird ball tip you can give small game a stunning-killing thump works like Rubber Bullets in other varmints wink, wink. With bow fishing gear it’s useful for fishing and other game. Making bolts is not that difficult if you have the proper materials at hand.

            Rate of fire hunting tend for me to be one shot, rate of fire for x-bows and most big bore air guns is one shot.

            Will still putter around with the air-musket so thanks for the poppet valve information, seems the internal dimensions are critical for proper amount of release for max velocity.

    3. Papa S
      16 g is pretty hard to find in my neck of the woods, also.
      I grab what I find…..birdshot.
      Slugs and buck seem to be seasonal, but very limited supply.

      My reason for buying the reloaders, both set up for 12g.
      I need to purchase the change over kit for 16 to have on hand.

  52. This a good time in the history of our country to get back to our local community self-reliance roots. In my city, the police were overwhelmed, and not even able to protect themselves, or their vehicles, even with mutual aid from several other departments. For the first time in their mostly liberal lives, families on our street realized that they would not be able to rely to respond to any kin of emergency at their home, including arsonists of family homes with family still inside! I have had conversation about family helping family, cooperation for security, and the ownership of firearms like at no other time in the 40 years we have lived here. 4 out of 5 nearby neighbors who had previously decided to not have guns have now changed their minds, and I am helping them to obtain and train with their first firearm ever owned. The best backup is not a second gun, but a human backup.

    And, frankly, i have more defensive quality firearms than I could ever use in an emergency, so, I am selling what I really haven’t used for a while. And, if i sell some ammo to these first time buyers too, what is the harm. Especially if this is repeated millions of times across the country, they will be a huge voting block to protect their family ability to defend their rights in the future.

    Yes, in so far as reasonable without hurting our own ability to protect our selves, it is a very good time to help others be better prepared too.

    Peace and good Health to you all

  53. Went to the local gun show this weekend. It was a madhouse. I had to go help a friend and family member pick out some firearms. Both first timers. The attendance was nothing like I had seen during obama or pre 2016 election.

    Cheapest AR platform I saw was a S&W MP15 for $900. Standard wait to get your firearm with a CCW was 3-5 days since the system is so overloaded. Ammo was available but pricey. 223/556 was .48 – .90 a rnd and the cheap stuff was Wolf. Only 9mm I saw was Wolf and Blazer. Watched a guy buy $8700 worth of ammo. Not as sure if he was going to re-sell it or just for him.

    By the time I left Sat. I was there from 9-2 there were tables completely wiped out of firearms. Over heard several people that drove over 2 hrs one way to come to the show.

    A&O

  54. Thank you for helping the first timers! Hopefully, they were able to find something suitable for their needs, and some ammunition. It is very important that we think more about helping those around us, instead of just being isolated and self-protective.

  55. Here in Lakeview Oregon there are almost no rounds for sale. If you’re looking for a common 9mm or 223 forget it. Hope everyone has what they need, this looks to be a long dry spell.

  56. It is to be hoped that those who have plenty of those common rounds (especially those who have an over abundance) are willing to sell or trade to those who are in need. Locally, new gun buyers may not be able to get ANY ammo at all for their new guns. That is where family, friends and neighbors can step in.

  57. It seems this Corona Virus pandemic and/or hoax has gotten to you all. There will be ammo but it will be limited. For those who already have a supply consider yourselves fortunate. Obama’s “slave” Joe Biden will most likely win the election. That is when the real problems will start. For the fence sitters it will get ugly, especially when ANTIFA and BLM march down your neighborhoods and torch your homes and trash your cars. God help us.

  58. If we lose senate/house/potus you can expect the filibuster to be gone immediately and major, crippling gun and ammo regulations day 1.

    1. I think whatever ammo one has now is all we’ll be able to get before long.I agree there will be crippling regs.day one.In my little burg ammo is severely limited the local rural king farm store which is the biggest gun dealer around here actually have more guns in stock with no ammo in that caliber than they ever have. It’s like check ammo availability and buy gun accordingly. I have enough of both but still buy box or two every trip to town. And no I won’t barter or sell either gun nor ammo.but if need arises I can arm someone taking refuge in my home for defense support.

  59. went online to see if any sites selling bulk ammo had any selections. all standard calibers sold out. Even the odd calibers where sold out. went to Bass Pro and Academy Sports and they were out. What got me was that even the Lodge cookware area was stripped. The air rifle section was almost stripped bare also. one online site had .357 125gr JHP @1k rds costing $1,179.99 before S&H and taxes. Also .40 cal/1k rds over $800+. It seems we had better be judicious about going to the range and plinking for 2/3 hours. Going to be tough to replenish. NOTE: this was about two weeks ago.

  60. Do not worry about the cost of ammo, only about finding any still for sale. We are NOT going to use it to put holes in paper, but in the bodies of the enemy.

  61. Got an email yesterday morning from MidwayUSA that the M855’s I was waiting on had arrived. I was running out the door. By the time I got back they were gone…..

  62. What is interesting is I have found ammo available in CANADA, where the prices have not changed and the stocks are high.

    However, being in the U.S.A., I cannot order this ammo. I wonder if it would pay to become an Ammo Runner…as if the ammo was Canadian Whiskey during prohibition?

    I wonder if an American can even buy ammo in Canada…in Canada? Does Canada require a special for Canadians to buy ammo? Can I put a few thousand rounds in my trunk and drive it to the U.S.?

    Anyway…lots of ammo in Canada.

    1. Forget Canada!

      I just spent some time trying to fathom the various laws in Canada, regarding ammo purchases, and there is NO WAY!

      They have rules which limit the amount of ammo you can buy, or own, to “reasonable” amounts. However, no one knows what this amount happens to be and it is subject to the individual opinion of random officials…which could change at any time..it seems.

      Oh, well.

      1. Jack Frost
        You can buy ammo in Canada with a Canadian licence called a PAL, (possession and Acquisition licence). We are not necessarily limited by the government in the number of rounds that we can buy but are limited in the amount that we can keep in one location by hazardous material rules where you cannot have more than the equivalent of about 250 pounds of powder. That allows for quite a few rounds! They have to be locked up and safely stored away from unlocked firearms. Different country different rules that so far work for most of us.
        LGS can limit purchases and many have done so but others have not at least to the extent that I see in the states.
        Ammo is becoming scarce, after all we buy it from your companies or Mexico or Europe. We are at the end of the supply chain but there is still stuff kicking around if you know where to look. Just picked up 3000+ rounds of 22 Blazer at 6 cents Canadian, about 4.5 cents US before taxes and shipping.
        Just as we can’t shop for ammo in the US you would find it difficult to shop for stuff here too and most companies cannot export to the US.

  63. Right On! Even Midway wasn’t accepting “pre-orders” They just has a “Notify Me” link to enter your email and they would let you know when something was available. If you get an availability email Jump on it!! :-) He who hesitates is Lost……

    On a better note, went to the range and they were allowing you buy 1 box of target 9MM and 1 box of defensive. Practiced with the 50 target and took the other box home.

  64. The child would teach the grandmother how to suck and egg?

    We know what is going on..and we have watched it happening for many years.

    The tyranny is spawned from your ignorance.

  65. Ision, when I posted about the ammo my intent was just to show how crazy ammo prices have become. I agree with you about the holes punched in paper. I am a member of a gun club and live close enough I can hear the rifle reports. I believe people are sitting on their stocks and just shooting to sight in scopes. Went to Academy Sports on the 6th and if one wanted .22wmr,.243,.270 and .308 then you were in luck. Every thing else was gone. On Armslist people were asking jacked up prices for their ammo. When none is to be had, then the law of supply and demand takes over.

  66. Ision,, as you wrote in a previous to me about not worrying about the price, just try to find it. From palmetto state armory, 1,000 rds, of .223 55grn FMJ @ $619.99 before tax and S&H. This a deal according to the ad. I will have to pass to someone with deeper pockets.

    1. 1000 rds frontier .556 nato $471.05 including shipping &tax Natchez shooters supplies . They got 50 cases today.

  67. SteelSoyboy
    . . . .
    You might find this enlightening
    . . . . billofrightsinstitute.org/founding-documents/bill-of-rights/

  68. If you feel that way you are one reason why everyone should have at least three,
    Dumbazz

  69. Yeah, I had friend text me a week ago about stack of 9mm at local store, 20 min later I was there they were all gone.Amazing . I’m pretty well stocked but still buy when I can!😷

  70. Spec5-
    Chad Prather made a video on YouTube titled “Coronavirus Takes The Suburbs” when the TP/Hand Sanitizer shortage began. I found it hilarious. And from what you just described, he’ll be able to make a sequel with the rounds in a baggie. 🤪

  71. Yesterday, at farm store was surprised they had more ammo than I’ve seen for awhile, most rifle calibers some handgun. Bought 40 rds .308 hornady whitetail and 100 rds 9 mm of some offbrand.didn’t need any of it but better have than have not. Who knows what Commie law and sleepy Joe will do about ammo prices or availability if they get in.

  72. There’s probably not a person of lower quality than someone working in the gun/ammo industry. Thieves, that’s all they are.

  73. Found this interesting, not offering an opinion, just passing on information.
    The Washington Post credited The National Sports Shooting Foundation as their source.

    “The foundation’s current surveys revealed that 58% of all firearm purchases were among Black men and women, the largest increase of any demographic group. Women comprised 40% of first-time gun purchasers. Retailers also noted that they are seeing a 95% increase in firearm sales and a 139% increase in ammunition sales over the same period in 2019.” –the The Washington Post

    Considering that black men and women make up 12.5% of the population, they seem to be, by far, the biggest purchasing group over the last few months than any other ethnic group.

    1. Dennis:
      GOOD!!!!!!!
      I want EVERY law abiding citizen to have the ability to protect and defend themselves.
      I could care less if Green Skined and Self Propagating.
      Gun ownership is provided under the Constitution for a good reason.
      Remember ” foriegn and domestic”.
      Enough Said

      1. NRP & Blue,

        I agree. When I posted this, I purposely deleted the last paragraph I had wrote saying essentially what you said. The devil in me wanted to see how people would react to this data. Congratulations, you didn’t disappoint me.

        This data comes from folks who passed the background check. Likely to back law and order, pro-2A politicians. Don’t bode well for democrat’s imagined grip on this demographic.

        1. Dennis and NRP

          Since I never had a background check done, do they really include the race, color, ethnicity, … on those checks, in those records?

          1. hermit us,

            Yes, they do. White is the last option on that line. Race is one of the identifiers necessary for the FBI criminal data base.

          2. hermit:
            To simplify the 8 page dissertation from others…

            Yes. . .

  74. People stock on guns and ammo when Obama was elected, now people stock up on them with Trump in office. Point being, people in contemporary USA feel the need to be heavily armed no matter who is in office. The sad truth is Americans now see each other as threats and enemies. Love em or hate em the Democrats have finally wised up and are now stocking up on firearms and ammo adding to the shortages…

  75. It really SUCKS I lost all my firearms and ammo in that boating accident on Navajo Lake
    UGHHHHH

  76. Just moved the family out of NJ to the Blue Ridge Mountains of NC in June 2020. I will never live under those conditions again. (And it’s getting far worse up there now.) Now I am shooting on our own property, both my .22 and my .45 flintlock longrifles. After reading these comments I just bought 500 more rounds of .22’s. I shoot my flintlocks more since black Powder isn’t in short supply and they are ever so cool.

  77. Visited the local gun shop yesterday, curious to see what the ammo situation was like. Last time I was there, it was one of a handful of places that didn’t require a mask, in fact, you couldn’t wear one in the store. Kind of makes sense.

    This time, the owner-wife practically ran over with a mask for me to wear. She said there was no need to go back to my car for mine, as I apologized and said I didn’t know about their policy change. Clown world: she pretended they had always required masks, from the beginning, because Covid-19 doesn’t discriminate between gun shops and grocery stores, etc… Very strange. I didn’t argue with her. I’m wondering if someone got a little visit from the mask police?

    Pretty good stock of ammo on the shelves, along with signs apologizing for the high prices. A box of 20 FMJ .223, what I consider practice rounds, was $20. The hollow points were $25. I asked owner-husband how they were doing, and he said it was just crazy in there lately. Their normal distributors are out of ammo for them, so they’ve been staying up late finding their ammo supply from various on-line outlets.

    This is a change for my AO, and thought I’d pass it on here. They may not be the only gun shop buying this way, so we’re now all competing for supply with them, too.

  78. “Left Marxists”? Really? Can we *please* stop vilifying people just because they believe in things like national healthcare, affordable education, racial equality and *reasonable* firearm regulations (so we don’t keep having mass shootings)? These are not extremist views, they’re just quality-of-life issues that every other democratic first-world nation has already resolved (and I would honestly be surprised if there aren’t a decent number of more right-leaning folks who aren’t against these things). And it *is* possible to believe in this stuff and to also believe in the 2nd Amendment, as well as to enjoy shooting firearms. I’m proof of that. We need to start looking at the shared values we have and working towards a united future, not demonizing each other simply because of some differing views. Now if you’ll excuse me, I’m going to go clean my shiny new Dan Wesson A2 (ok, technically it’s a matte finish, but you know what I mean). Be safe out there during this pandemic, and let’s all try and show more compassion and understanding towards those we may disagree with.

      1. Because they’ve been taught that Marxism is hard right conservatism. Doesn’t make sense, but I have to keep fielding this from my nephew. Marxism, Antifa, PETA, all “right wing.” Socialism is different from Marxism (regardless of the historical similarities), and please don’t forget it when speaking to anyone who believes in absolute government control.

      2. I almost added that isn’t it redundant like short dwarf. Although I guess that’s not PC, I figure since I’m about 3 inches away from having to sit in a car seat again I can use it.

    1. David ,,,,,,well here how it is ,,,,i spent five years of my life killing commies ,so what’s changed now ,?those are not my country men riotting in the streets ,and this is not about black or white, it’s about being free ,being free to pee in the wind ,and follow ones heart ,to win or lose by my ideas and hard work , to keep the fruit of my labor ,OBTW my family is mixed race,there’s a lot I would like to say but Ken might not appreciate it ,
      As for the 2 amment I’m a direct descendant of a man that killed British red coats on the Lexington road ,wasn’t that about trying to take some guns ,?not on my watch ,,

      Have a ‘t’shirt ,says kill a commie for mommy

    2. David
      Gosh your example sounds like Canada. While we have our flaws and a different government then our friends to the south we are still able to buy ammo and, for the most part, the firearms of our choice.
      Good words and sound ideas!

    3. Boy,
      Thats a load of horsEsHitt
      These turds want to kill our country, this is why we have a 2A

    4. David – Moving my reply over to open thread, since this conversation isn’t really about ammo shortages.

    5. David (or rather Jason from 7/22 who first took offense to “Left Marxists”) –

      Based on your stated belief it is clear that you haven’t a clue who Karl Marx was as a man, nor comprehend what he believed.

      Marx was a horrific racist. To him, progress will only occur when certain ethnic groups are swallowed up by the more powerful ones. No racial equality within that sentiment. And say what you will, but that is the epitome of extremism. That’s how Jews found themselves in concentration camps and furnaces.

      This “United Future” that you speak of is in fact the process by which the workers of the world unite without need of countries, which Marx not only believed was inevitable, he also saw that all he needed to make it happen was to eliminate the backwards people or force them to join a worldwide revolution towards Communism.

      You’re fearful of mass shootings, yet mass extinctions should actually be what terrifies you. There’s no quality of life as you put it if you’re in the wrong group. And your supposed National Healthcare will be directly proportionate to how esteemed you are to those in power.

      There has been no moment in history where facts are more readily available at your fingertips, yet you show no grasp of ever having read history. You have less than 60 days before you cast the most significant vote of your lifetime. Hopefully you can use even a tiny fraction of that time to read even a tiny portion of factual information that you gather yourself, for yourself. You control the beliefs you hold. It is your responsibility to educate yourself, not blindly absorb what MSM, or a professor, or twitter want to give you as talking points. Stopping Socialism dot com, is the first place I would point you. Read about the real world reality that you seem to believe you’ll be embracing. Because I assure you, no one will feel like a bigger fool than you when the people you vote into office come for you. Not to give you a great 50 cent healthcare plan, or even to take away your gun, but rather come to take you to the prison camp where you will exist for the remainder of whatever your life becomes as you show compassion to your captors.

      Those from my generation – the kids who had nothing more than a pull down paper map in our classrooms and film strips and certain volumes of an Encyclopedia Brittanica set as our parents could afford to add to it – we will live free, or die. We had limited choices from which to learn, yet learn we did. You’ve got a bounty available to you, so use it while you still can. The clock is ticking.

    6. Ever listen to AOC and Bernie Sanders? That’s about as Marxist as it gets, so YES…the democrat party HAS embraced Marxism. That is a fact. Your so-called “national healthcare” is a perfect example of communism [Marxism]. Racial equality? Every person in this country has the EXACT SAME freedom to work hard for what they want. There are WAAAAAAYYYYYY too many black people who started from nothing and worked their way to becoming millionaires for this to even be debatable. “Reasonable firearm regulations”??? There is no such thing! When you give power-hungry buttholes the opportunity to regulate anything, they NEVER stop there. It’s all about ‘sliding it in, nice…..and….slow’, like the boiling frog analogy. “Affordable education”?? Whenever the government is granted power to regulate the price of ANYTHING, that is called Price Control. NOWHERE in a free market capitalist society, that gives maximum opportunity for people to become self reliant and prosperous, is there a place for Price Controls. That is Socialism 101, which leads to Communism. Find a Webster’s dictionary that was written before the year 2000, and look up the definitions of the 3 forms of economies: Capitalism, Socialism, and Communism. I’ll take Capitalism ANY day, as that is the ONLY one that can provide freedom, and that is what your precious Democrat party is fighting against….FREEDOM.

    7. It’s true that banning guns decreases gun violence.”
      That’s not true.
      It’s anecdotal progressive misinformation.

      The real study, based on Government statistics, was done and updated by
      John Lott, “More Guns, Less Crime.”

      It’s simply that criminals do not attempt crimes where there are known to be
      armed citizens, and especial those allowed to use concealed carry. Criminals actually leave those areas.

  79. Hah
    I show no compassion or understanding to those that want to destroy America and what the true America stands for and has stood for, for eons.
    Don’t like American values, pack your bags. I’ll help you and others of the like mindset, move elsewhere.

    2nd amendment:
    “I like shooting, hunting”
    That’s not what the second stands for.

  80. 1000 rounds in Ammo Can, $600, 25,000 rounds in stock, one can per person.
    400 rounds in ammo can, $299 has 40 ammo cans, 1 per person.

  81. All I’m looking for is 10 gauge ammo for fall hunting and nothing worth buying in any shot sizes that work, complete bullshit when I know it’s not because there are millions of these guns out there. Been that way going on ten years of shortages on anything useful…Trump 2020 or blood in the streets….

    1. Bryan, I was able to find 10 gauge at a local gun shop. It was turkey load, 5 or 4 shot lead, boxes of five, about a $1.50 a shell. Nothing in non-lead so migratory bird hunting is out. Also found some slugs and buckshot in five packs. Not very many packs on the shelf, picked a few of each over a few weeks, did not see any restock. Not helpful for you, but just info, I usually check small shops, i gave up on shopping larger stores and online.

  82. Town is completely out of popular calibers. Shops have no idea what will come or when. Bi-Mart, which said yesterday to come back this afternoon, today said that replenishment truck didn’t even show up today. Not just for ammo but everything. Did pick up more shotgun shells. In case of varmints, you know.

  83. Local store has a limit of 5 boxes for .223/5.56 plus 45 and 9 mm. Cashier said they get deliveries on Sunday and by Monday they are gone. There were empty shelves for other types this summer but the past couple of weekends, there seemed to be almost no empty spots on the shelves. Another cashier indicated there were a lot of cash sales unlike other retail establishments. I am presuming they are remaining gray with regard to their ammo purchases.

    1. Good to hear they are still making ammo. The shelves are still bare here in N IL. I’m surprised your even able to get those calibers. Those have been gone here for months.

  84. My gun range can’t get ammo from suppliers, that means that concerned Americans aren’t buying it; someone is diverting it directly from the manufacturers. Who? Police? Military?

  85. Stopped at local sporting goods store this morning. Happened to overhear manager tell customer service – no ammo came on the truck today. He said they are having trouble getting any. Just a couple weeks ago they seemed fairly well stocked. Also lead weights for fishing but that is an issue with non-domestic sourcing.

  86. All your panic buying is just making rich people richer. The world is not ending. The Proud Boys won’t be patrolling the street. Trump is not going to declare martial law. Portland is not on fire. Obama and Soros are not coming to get your guns. There won’t be any UN blue helmets in the streets.
    Stop and think! The big money boys want you panicky to get your money and your vote. Calm down.

  87. Even .22 shotshell birdshot is gone everywhere, and online too. That is completely strange to me as almost NOBODY uses that. I’ve got a bad sparrow problem in my barn, and although I ‘could’ trap them, it’s much easier to use 22 birdshot. It’s freekin’ weird out there right now.

  88. Checked with Dick’s in my area and was told that they sellout in minutes. Associate said it all goes to runners (10 t0 12) who line up before it opens and buy it all up. Seems they would put a limit on purchases but I guess profit is profit to them.

  89. I need SP 62 grain .22315.56mm and Federal-Tactical Bonded 62 grain .22315.56mm

  90. It took one day, election day, to end the ammo shortage in 2016. This time around is different not only being it’s not just a few calibers out but most, and add in how the left will react if trump wins, it will only get worse. Worse than that is a biden win where gun control will be priority number 1. Either way the days of affordable guns and ammo are over, honestly it’s been over since late 90s when i could walk into pawn shop and buy a new polytech ak for 399, or a romak for 189. But now this hobby, this love, this right will only be attainable to the rich and connected. I’ve said this a lot of times for a lot of reasons and I’ll say it again. It’s over for the little guy.

    1. I can still find some 9mm online but the prices are ridiculous. 500 rounds that I used to pay $188 for is now $399 at one online source.

  91. In Tucson, Arizona, Sportsman’s Warehouse is completely out of .308 and 10mm. Last week in Show Low, Arizona, I found some inexpensive 7.62×51 FMJ. Back in August I was in southeastern Idaho and they had a fairly reasonable selection. I was able to get a few different kinds of .308 (including the last box of Federal Power Shok which nobody else noticed because it was in the wrong spot on the shelf at Cabelas) and some Buffalo Bore 10mm hard cast (for bears). All of it was at normal prices.

  92. Traveled central Nebraska this past weekend with my sisters for the annual flea market/garage sale event. In several small communities, businesses advertise in the guide as well including some gun shops. I was able to obtain some 45 rounds for my husband. A little pricey but he hasn’t been practicing because of the shortage. The shop owner admitted he had 9 mm but wasn’t selling any as he needed it for his own use. I appreciated his honesty, but this event draws people from all over and who knew whether someone else in the shop heard his comment as well. The shop was a small storage shed in the owner’s yard out in the country. I recalled in some of my reading on other blog sites the recommendation to own weapons that used the most popular rounds because then those rounds would be available WTSHTF. It certainly doesn’t seem that is going to be the case. With these continuing ammo shortages, is it advisable to consider acquiring less “popular” guns whose ammo is available? Or wait for the supply chain to unkink?

    1. MamaLark, personally I suspect that the ammo supply chain might NOT unkink. Look to what you have, determine if that is what you need. Odd ball calibers are an option if you NEED more weapons but GET that Ammo as you get that weapon. Soon enough even those Oddball calibers will sell out and not be restocked. Odds are IF and When ammo manufacturers start catching up on it it will be the most profitable commonly desired ammos.

      Time might come where a “Shot” of Whiskey is indeed worth the trade of a 45 Long Colt Cartridge. Or a few 9mm a chicken. Self defense becomes MORE important when the scent of burning houses are in the air and Police are not responding.

      I never suggest folks max out credit cards BECAUSE History has shown Bankers and Government (But I repeat myself) ALWAYS get their Money-Taxes. But I do suggest looking at things you can do with out to buy MORE of what is important.

      I still take my 94 year old Dad out for a weekly lunch because at his age and dementia Quality of Life is important for him. He gets seriously depressed a few days after the “Normal” Lunch date IF MISSED. Happily a cheap BK burger and fries makes him as happy as a Fisherman’s platter at 12 times the price. I try to mix it up for him food and people watching wise.

      I HAVE with the agreement of my beloved stopped OUR weekly lunch runs to “get out of the house” for a picnic out of the house run. That gives me the ability to fill up a 5 gallon pail with beans and rice (for example) every two weeks.

      I really doubt anything will be as cheap or available in the near future than it is right now. Or as a friend of mine says “Buying food I will already eat next year NOW is never a loss”.

      1. Thanks. That is my concern in waiting. It’s unexpected based on past reading and limited experience. Fortunately we have been blessed to have the option to buy hi priced or buy other weapons for which ammo is available. I just need information to share with DH to start the conversation. He is generally suffering from normalcy bias thinking this to shall pass.

  93. I would have to disagree wholeheartedly with that sentiment, HI.

    God help YOU.

    No, really.

    You are going to need it, my friend, cuz a hurtin’ is a comin’ in his next term.

    And it ain’t gonna be purty. Not for y’all at least.

    In fact, it could get rather ugly. ‘Specially if ya ain’t got’ny muntions.

    But soldier on, troll. Soldier on.

  94. Big retailers like Sportsman’s Warehouse, Cabelas, and Big 5 are still getting ammo, but it’s hit and miss. I busted out my .17 and .22 cal springer rifles until this nonsense ends. Tons of cheap springer/airgun ammo available and it keeps my shooting skills sharp. The current price gouging by some retailers will be duly noted.

    1. Local stores including 1 listed above are getting ammo but not enough for the demand. Truck comes in and it’s sold quickly. A few will send out emails when it arrives. Wondering if anyone has used ship to store for online orders? Are you able to get what you want?

  95. Where pray tell did you find “Cheap Milsurp Ammo” friend? Aside from commercial 7.62X39mm Russian ammo there is no military surplus ammo I can find.

    1. NH Michael: I found a half a case of PMC .223 Remington on my front porch last night. A benefactor split his with me. Apparently there is no problem finding it in Arizona. Not quite Mil-Surp, but better than nothing.

    2. tmcgyver ammo can be found. I know where I could secure a few K of green tip if I was in the market. Price is the question isn’t it. Some argue it’s too expensive. What is the value of a fully loaded magazine when “Peaceful Protestors” are showing up with as a friend of mine might comment “Bottles of Flaming Peace”?

      So far they don’t play in NH because our DA’s are not owned by Soros. Sadly in 30 some days that may change.

      Buy it NOW folks, don’t max out your credit card but get it. An American Sporting Rifle makes a poor club, especially when Antifa is carrying firearms.

  96. For the first time in my life I can’t find premium hunting ammunition. I’m talking stuff that is normally $2+ a round in the cheap times.

    Have got to wonder why sleazy Joe wants to grab guns when clearly the population thinks they need them.

  97. Could it be the globaliztas with big bucks are buying it up so the deplorables don’t have it but Anti Fah and And Blond Little Marxists can pre-position it like the bricks on pallets for the riots? I don’t know any locals who been able to buy and hoard.

    1. Stocked after a fashion. Many stores are missing some calibres or are low on stock. Brand names like Federal for 22 lr are become less common at least in the east. You can still buy hunting ammo in most calibres and 12 ga is more available than 20ga.

  98. I live in East Texas and you can still get whatever you want but limit 3 at most stores. Limit of 1 gun purchase per day at most stores too. Ammo isnt always left out on shelves. Depending where you go you may have to ask for it.

  99. Well they can’t take are Guns but they took our Ammo so in the end they pulled a Dirty one on us.

  100. I was told at my Bass Pro Shop in IL. That someone has an underground App. That lists when the delivery schedule is for offloading deliveries of Ammo in the IL. Area I cant find any of such app… My local gun shops are selling 25 round boxes of 38 Special for 44 dollars and a box of 50. 40 cal S&W for 49 dollars that just seems crazy high for 38 special

    1. That would be news to management. They don’t know what’s coming in on any truck and lately trucks have been late.

    2. back during the last .22 ammo shortage I bought 38 special $45 for 100 round box.
      I bought some to hold and later resell and nobody wanted it back then.

  101. Between the shortage and anti-2nd Amendment stores like walmart A.K.A. Satin-mart and other bendover to socialism stores it makes it10x’s more difficult in Commiefornia. Even nearby states refuse to sell to out of staters. I reload since 1991 and spoke of these/this current situation for over 2 decades telling people it will continue to get worse and always buy 2 times your normal supply starting 2 years before another President election A.K.A. presidential Bias Selection. ( This is not hoarding but preparations for another historical inevitable trend of anti-American culture and to save 35% on components because costs rise every month if you watch ). We all have our reasons for our actions and by now we all know better than to sit idle during these times in our history.

    1. Mike
      . . . .
      re “stores like walmart A.K.A. Satin-mart”
      . . . .
      Satin? Really? Seems more like a poly-cotton blend to me.

  102. I normally go through at least 150 rounds when I go to the range and I normally go to the range at least 2 times a month. I’m worried about being able to keep replacing what a shot. For me a couple of thousand rounds is just a safety measure against times like this when it is hard or too expensive to buy ammo.

  103. michael bales wrote; “why do you 1000 rds for”…I’ll assume he meant “why do you need 1000 rounds?”

    Answer; Because as a Free Man I choose to! That is the beauty of freedom.

    Very sad that people think the way that michael bales thinks.

  104. If they can’t take our guns, they can take our ammunition, None available in my section of Texas.

  105. Crowson writes; You don’t need thousands of rounds of ammo unless you think your not ever going to get anymore. In a fire fight you might get off 10 rounds before your hit just saying.

    Dookie! responds; Crowson, You don’t need to be on your mom’s cell phone on the interwebs!

    Thanks!

  106. Basicly the same here in SD, hit or miss and where you might find it. Big box sporting stores have a better chance of having it verses the smaller gun shops.Was in Cabellas the other day, lots of shotgun shells, no handgun ammo and very little rifle shells. Was in the other big box store just down the road from me, had 223/556, and 308 in several different loads ( it lasted maybe a day ), the only .22 shells are the .22 shorts ( round nose and hollow point ), they a boat load ( so to speak ) of wolf steel case ammo ( 762×39, 223. 308, and nine ), it didn’t last much longer. Just my two cents, but why is this happening, you have the wuhan virus, you have all the political bull going on , plus all the rioting and looting ( and nobody is being charged withit ), and don’t forget that Obama and Obiden shut down two lead refineries and a copper smelter that supplied the shooting industry for health reasons, plus you have all these young people that never had to work a day in their life ( my niece, 7 yrs of schooling, cried for 8 to 10 hrs straight because Hillary lost the election ) and there are others. Sorry everyone, I get going and don’t know when to stop

  107. Of the last two times I looked first the handgun ammo section was completely bare, the second visit I noticed about 15 boves of 10mm on the shelf and nothing else.
    shotgun ammo very low but available, long gun ammo only the most expensive or very odd caliber available.

    There was plenty(as in over 20 of the 50 round boxes each)17hmr and .22magnum available but I haven’t gone and looked in over a week.
    Central WI

  108. Sitting in bed reading this blog..
    Remembered the bast box of ammo I bought was still on my desk.
    So shiny and pretty Fusion Winchester 30-30 150 grain flat nose.
    writing on the box calls it “skived” tip
    Picked that up several months ago.

  109. SGAmmo has some 9mm Luger. You will have to decide if the price is worth it. I’ve gotten it there several times but that was a few months ago and at a better price. They had 22L yesterday but all gone now.

    1. I’ve been looking for the kids, in several places.
      I did snag a box for the boy’s GF.
      $2 a round. Wow.
      Nothing for what he uses.
      The well known sporting goods shop was wiped…of dang near everything.
      Handgun, rifle, .22.
      Limited shotgun.
      Still no reloading primers.
      Before the scarcity, their 8×20 display shelfs were always loaded. Handgun and rifle rounds on one side, shotgun on the other. Just a few scattered boxes here and there.

  110. In our rural county, for all practical purposes, Wally World was the primary source of in-person ammo purchases. There are no other “big box” stores in the county and only the one Wally’s. Local gun stores are pawn shops that never carried much ammo to begin with, and their prices were never competitive. Other than a few boxes of shotgun shells at Wally’s…the ammo shelves have been dry for over 2 months. Ironically, I had never seen 28ga shells offered at our local Wally’s before…now they have more 28ga than any other.

    Being a lifelong recreational shooter, I’ve learned from past lessons of ammo shortages, and was not caught unprepared for this one. Hopefully I’m wrong….but I sense that this one will be with us for a long, long, long time.

    What’s scarier? …………the looming food shortage…..it’s coming….it will be more than a minor aggravation……….

  111. Years ago I purchased 2 flats of 22LR (about 5000 per flat I think), two cases of 12ga 00 buck and a case of 12ga slugs. They were cheap and plentiful. I did not think of it as hoarding.

    So, now the prices seem sky high and ammo is very hard to find. But the lesson I learned was, buy it when available because the price will certainly be higher in the future and the gov may ensure more tax on it as well as more restrictions.

    1. Yea,, i picked up about a bunch of cases of shells, was a deal through a clays place we shot at, he brings in a big shipment every few months so about 10 years ago picked up a few k each of fiocchi 00buck and slugs, i think cost ended up about .30 per shell,,,,

      1. I was in my local mom and pop gun store yesterday, they had 5 boxes of Federal 12 Gauge shotgun slugs for $9.99 a box of 5 rounds! They had NO 5.56/223, or 7.62X51/308 at all, nor did they have any 7.62X39. The only handgun ammo they had was 2 boxes of 32ACP FMJ and 6 boxes of 20 rounds each of 454 Casull. As far as guns for sale the display cases that most of the time had 30, to 40 handguns in each, now only had 1 handgun in each case. The racks behind the counter that held rifles and shotguns were now empty with the exception of 1 cheap over and under shotgun made in Turkey.They did have a very good section of Magpul second, and third generation 30 round P Mags (with, and without the window) for the AR15/M4. They also had a good section of Glock mags for all their popular models. One last item I’d like to report, i went to my local reloading shop about a week ago. They had a good supply of 22 Cal. and 30 Cal. reloading bullets in many different weights, They also had both small and large rifle and pistol primers for 80 dollars a 1000. The funny thing was, none of this stuff was listed on their web site, It’s only for sale to local customers who walk in their store.

    2. I highly recommend that all of you watch “The Battle of Athens TN” that took place in 1946.

      That is when the citizens finally had enough of a corrupt government and sheriff.

    3. hermit us. there is a difference between preparing, stocking up and hoarding. When the shelves are full and everyone can buy all they want, and the next guy in line can buy all he wants, and there’s still more on the shelf, that’s stocking up and preparing. Now when the shelves have been empty for weeks and you know there is a shortage and you walk in and the clerk puts 5 boxes on the shelf and there’ two guys behind you and they want some and you take all 5 boxes that’s hoarding, as well as being selfish. We’ve seen this with TP, just a short time ago there was very little to be found anywhere, now the TP aisle is full, time to stock up, cause hoarding may be back in a week or two. Trekker Out

      1. Trecker,,,,,,,,,,BRAVO ,,,,,,,,,very well put ,,,,,,,,if you were close that would get you a box of ammo as a gift ,,,,,,,,,,,,

        1. Oldhomesteader, that’s very thoughtful and I Thank you, but I did prepare when it was available. Even though I wish I could go back and buy more at the price I bought it for, because it was a very good price at the time. Trekker Out

  112. where i am deerslugs are damn near impossible to be had even the smaller gun stores dont have any and it projected that IF this slows down and it HIGHLY looks like it will only get worse some gun store owners say it will take into june or july be it will be caught up with expect thing to get MUCH worse

  113. Just a suggestion when as you say the “threat” either perceived or not, is over or calmed down to where people believe it is over, those who go out and buy guns, that have no idea or education regarding guns, they by a large majority, now can’t wait to get rid of the gun they bought, They tend to sell them to “Pawn Shops”. So, after things settle down and you want to get a great deal on a gun, go to a pawn shop and score a deal. But of course if you can not buy ammo, your SOL.

  114. Just in the last few days I have seen some of the on line dealers starting to have ammo, and it’s only quadruple the normal price. I’m sure they wouldn’t hold back on us just to make a few buck. Free enterprise, the hell you say! What amazes me, is that my grandson works at a sporting goods store in Jackson Wy. one of the biggest tourist traps in the country, and when they get ammo in, it’s marked up very little, go figure. Trekker Out

    1. Sportsmanguide had 12ga 2 3/4. Slugs 80 for 123.00
      You can also sign in for ammo notification on popular rounds.
      It’s worth the 20.00 for membership. Did that sign-up on number4 buck and they came through.
      MERRY CHRISTMAS!

  115. The upside is that Americans DO see the threat and ARE arming themselves! Unfortunately, this leave little available ammo for these people to practice and get themselves up to speed.

    As for the ammo shortage affecting the likes of us,… we knew this was coming… We SHOULDN’T be surprised, and SHOULD be ready… already…

  116. Bought FMJ target 9mm rounds for .72/rd then email came with offer from another company for .60/rd got 500rds each. If don’t have it can’t go to range with no ammo. Next year should get worst with Biden, IMHO

  117. Checked 4 gun stores and there were almost no ‘common’ rounds available. Visited with two of the stores and they are getting their deliveries normally. What isn’t normal, the two the stores don’t shelf the ammo, they just put it on the counter and it’s gone. One store splits the deliveries in two, and tries to slow the frenzie. Prices are near normal, no attempt at gouging. One store started a list of people that were buying the ammo and reselling it at exorbitant prices…those were being limited to what they could buy.(as in give people a break)

  118. On the current gnashing of teeth over ammo shortages…..wonder how many of y’all took advantage last year of the excellent deals on 12 ga 00 buckshot I passed on to readers…..as I recall it was $64 for a 250 round case (25 cents a round) ?

    Pretty sure I remember NRP and Kulafarmer taking advantage……know I did…….that old sayin’ “Make hay while the sun shines” would apply…………..

    1. Dennis:
      Would not say I “took advantage of” but did pick enough to conquer France.
      All four shells.. LOLOL

      1. Hey Blue tell NRP to give you some gravy on your dinner! NRP I think I can find you some French Rifles nearly new, only dropped once. Maybe that odd 7.5 mm French ammo is available eh?

  119. On December 22, I checked my preferred supplier, SGAmmo in Stillwater, OK. They had 1,000 round cases of Lake City, 55 gr., FMJ available. Seven cases were available then, this morning, 12/26 there are still 3 cases available. They provide prompt shipping and fair prices.

  120. Here is my question to the general public….
    How many rounds do you REALLY believe you will get off before TPTB decide to take you out of the picture? People need to get real.

    1. Pioneer Woman –

      This is exactly the discussion I try to have with my son, the hopeless ammosexual. As civilians, defending our life and homestead, I really don’t see the benefit to having cases of ammo lying around; it becomes a liability past a certain point. That and all of the super high-tech ghost sights and lasers and tactical crapola. I mean that’s nice if you are a super hobby fan. But in a WROL condition, you simply won’t be able to accurately IFF at a great distance, through high powered optics. Nor would you be able to convince a jury of an imminent threat.

      To my mind, any kind of legitimate self-defense actions will happen at close range, with blade sights, if not just a straight hip shot. Under those conditions, you’ll be lucky to get off a few rounds before attracting all sorts of terrible attention your way. These conditions could continue awhile, so a few hundred rounds might be prudent. Anyone recklessly sending cases quantities downrange will either suffer a weapon failure, or will be promptly turned to paste; perhaps by others who aren’t quite sure what you are doing, but need to eliminate the threat.

    2. Pioneer Woman,

      That’s a good question. If the object of stockpiling ammo is in prep for all out civil war….you’re probably correct…if you become a combatant, you better be an expert at escape and evasion, or become a statistic very early on…..but…..

      Everyone that maintains a good stock of ammo is not contemplating the end times. Many, like myself, are recreational shooters. I probably shot up more ammo this past year than the average “gun owner” would shoot up in 20 lifetimes. Some men (and women) play golf for recreation and therapy….I shoot guns. Much like a golfer, every session is an attempt to better my last one.

      A golfer without golf balls is akin to a shooter with no ammo. There is no therapeutic value, no chance to improve your game…….I’ll not share how many rounds or what type of ammo I have on hand no more than I would divulge how much food I have in stock…..but what I have might be considered way too much by some standards….not near enough by someone else’s……

      1. same here Dennis, i have what i have and load my own because i live on an island where supply is spotty and inconsistent, if i want any consistency to my ammo for hunting or whatever, i need to control the quality and specs. For the longest time i thought i was just a lousy shot, then i started researching and reading on the interwebnetthing and discovered there is more to stuff that goes bang than point, shoot, swearwords.
        Now can repeat conditions to get predictable results. A whole lot less frustrating.
        Not all guns are equal, not all ammo is the same. Theres a reason why F class guys are so persnickety about data,

      2. Dennis,
        Seems as those, in my workplace, once were hunters, now turned golfers…

        Those of which, have no balls

      3. Dennis,
        I too am a recreational shooter. I have easily gone through a thousand rounds on a weekend….and I DO IT REGULARLY. Because shooting is a perishable skill AND because you really need to know how a particular weapon handles a particular ammo.

        I just do not believe that many folks truly understand the time, place, use of the weapons they buy and wish that more would educate themselves. I also do not believe that many will actually handle the scenarios that they are speaking of. Until you have been forced to make the decision, does one really KNOW how they will react?

        Those of us that are LEOs, may have been there. Those who have had life altering threat to self and family may have been there.

        As for barter value….once folks know you have what they need……well…..
        I have nothing against “prepping” for the scenario, but that takes MORE than just stockpiling and talk. That was my only point.

    3. Pioneer Woman,

      I’ve heard some folks talk about using ammo for barter, with trusted associates, and also to supply trusted friends and family who were unable to secure enough of their own. Many people have a prepper perspective that’s tribe/community focused. If so, that’s a good thing, as the left certainly outpaced us in community organizing these last several years. When communist organizers buy supplies, including ammo – yes, they are getting ammo, too – they buy for the group. I’d rather have a lone constitution loving patriot sitting on more ammo than they presently need than see it fall into insurgent hands. The patriot will most likely resupply other patriots at some point, assuming they’re not incredibly dense. I’m not speaking from personal experience – unfortunately, I’m not in the position of needing to explain why I have *so much!* ammo. Just some thoughts.

      1. Good Morning Farmgirl –

        I should have expanded my remarks a bit, as I was only addressing the how much is enough for critical defense. You bring up a very important consideration about intrinsic value. I’m not lucky enough to be able to practice like many do here. Back in March, minimally half of my office mates stood in line for hours to purchase their first firearm, then again 2 weeks later to pick it up. Imagine the surprise when there was no ammo available. .. I took care of them, very nicely. A little goes a long way. So from your perspective and scenario… Yup. Back up the truck.

    4. PW
      I get what you mean.
      I several rounds of various calibers.
      Been ‘hoarding’ since the Clinton years.
      I have no panic, to this years shortage. I’ll have no panic in 2021 or years to follow.
      Defences, food(meat) sources are covered.
      Barter, probably not, but I did regift 50 rds to my boy.
      I have no gold. No silver.
      But I do have that, is now hard to come by.

      I.
      Am. (have been)
      Getting.
      Real

    5. Pioneer Woman
      . . . .
      Prepping for a grid down WROL event means I expect my MAG to be TPTB in our neck of the woods. Hunting, running off poachers, taking out predators to preserve the livestock, and (if lights go out in summertime) dealing with remnants of outlaw biker gangs would be primary uses.
      . . . .
      Don’t hold truck with those with some muddled idea of a CWII, violent western secessionist movement, or nationwide confiscation program.

  121. Farmgirl has stated why I share knowledge of my experimentation and past experiences on this site. Like Dennis, I like to shoot but, for me, it is also a research project and my local range is the location where I find out what works and what fails prior to going out in the field. ( or hit the streets driving a black and white as I also did in my younger years.)

    This site is a gathering place for which I go to learn from others and to share knowledge I have gleaned from the past. That is why I have been talking less of guns and ammo in the past weeks and sharing recipes in the past month. I still look forward to the gardening hints and learning about herbal remedies. I hope regular posters will continue to share their knowledge and wisdom on this site as it is what keeps this a wonderful and informative place to come to each week.

    I had a job where I was paid by tax dollars to put down dangerous animals within the CONUS. Locally, people know me and come to me for advice and assistance. To a very limited degree, they ask if I have ammo for sale and I am particular about who I will sell to at cost of components + a charge for my labor costs.

  122. For the past month, I have been purchasing 2 boxes of 17 HMR and maybe a box of 12 or 20 gauge Winchester AA trap loads from my local outlet. I still like to shoot trap at least 1x per month when the rains is not blowing sideways and i still have to get ready for my Spring Hunting Trip on the burrowing rodents of Eastern Oregon. Cattle ranchers and alfalfa growers simply love me for high high ratio of hits to shots fired.

    Shooting small targets at far distance and hitting a moving target with a shotgun are perishable skills yet it does not take a lot of shells per month to maintain your edge. In the meantime, remember: During ammo shortages the hardcore get into reloading their shells. The longtime hardcore shooters heat up the bullet/shot molds and cast their own bullets and shot.

  123. Ammo..
    I found actual ammo on the shelves at my local farm store, central WI.
    Not a lot but around 30 5 shell boxes of slugs, lots of various loads of 12guage.

    odd long gun calibers available, popular ones -empty.

    Zero handgun ammom plus the .22mag and 17hmr as overpriced as it was is gone.
    I’d post a picture if I could but it might make some cry.
    I didn’t get any, not feeling like lightening the wallet today and I have my three 9mm rounds : ) gots all I need.

  124. I’m an old guy living in a state that’s fairly easy on shooters and collectors. About 20 years ago, I started buying small amounts of ammo that were on sale or in bulk. I had started a small weapons collection, so every time I bought a new weapon, I usually had to buy ammo for it. My wife wasn’t happy each time a mail order ammo package came in, or I grabbing 45-70 Government ammo on the way out of local big box stores. The only caliber back then that cost me more than $1.00 per round was those 45-70 Governments. And I did buy ammo in small bulks. Now almost all calibers are $1.00 per round….and I’m not buying at these prices, or wasting my valuable time looking online. I have all I need in each caliber. Bottom line: always buy over the long term and find a nice dry place to store your growing ammo stockpile. I do feel bad for first time buyers who recently could not find ammo at any price. Maybe we need a federal law that requires every firearm come with 2 boxes of ammo, instead of silly “safety” locks, useless state quizzes, and waiting periods that get unarmed women killed by stalkers, rejected suitors, etc.

    1. Like you, I too collected a little at a time. Sometimes case lots as it was cheaper per round. Living in Alaska during the cold war, we knew from the war games, our military then could not hold off an invasion for more that 72 hours. So, along with growing up hunting, we were armed to the teeth determined not to go down without a fight. Now here we are, losing from within. Went in to a gun store the other day looking for a taper crimp die and saw bare shelves. I had more ammo at home than they did! I reload mostly for self enjoyment but will share with personal friends. I owned a pistol in Alaska before legally allowed. I couldn’t even buy ammo at that time but I could by the components so I reloaded from the start after my brother bought me the first two boxes of .41 Magnum ammo.

    2. Best way to buy. Often and over time . Agree that I have sympathy for those getting into firearms for the first time, for what ever reason, are short on ammo. You may have been too young, too poor, unemployed at the time. Then again there were other that were just too stupid until reality gave them a smack!

  125. The obvious concern that is not being mentioned is we all know confiscation is absurd. No ammo to use in a firearm is an excellent way to get to the end by a different means. The Federal President says he’s making ammo ‘every day’. Where is it going? Cabelas, Brownells and Midway haven’t had a round of 30-30 in months. You can get it at Alamo for $100 / 20 instead of the usual $20 or so. He’s ‘tired of hearing rumors’? We don’t trust you.

    1. If that were true, dealers would be getting MORE, or at least no less than before.. but they say they are getting next to none! Who are they selling too?

      1. Imatreke2

        The Ammo manufacturers are running at capacity, they are selling to distributors based on what the distributors bought over the past X number of months of Free Supply.

        The Distributors are then allocating the ammo to the dealers (gun stores, big box stores etc). Some Big Box stores buy from manufacturer direct, others from Distributors

        Since the local gun stores depleted most of their inventory a few months ago, any new shipments that they get go out to either “preferred customers” or first come first served customers.

        That is my understanding of it from first hand knowledge from a sales manager of a large national ammo manufacturer.

  126. well, here in southeast missouri most shelves are bare except for few boxes of shotgun shells.. I just can’t believe this stuff.

  127. Does anyone remember Oboma supplying all government departments with extraordinary amounts of hollow point ammo? Does anyone know where all that stored ammo went? Just a thought.

    1. Melted down. They bought millions of rounds of ammunition and destroyed it because they didn’t want we the people to get it and Biden was watching

      1. Chris, with 7 million new gun owners and assuming they only purchase two boxes of ammo….that is the explanation for the shortage. Then calculate how many people practice regularly….and how many want reinforcement on their supply. Just not physically possible for the shops to keep up.

        unfortunately, oblowme’s right hand is going to rein in everyone’s ability to get more. Just well utilize what you have on hand until there is more available.

    1. Black Powder weapons. A high-tech black powder rifle, can be breach loaded, and ignited by an electric spark, instead of a flint…or a cap. Made of stainless steal, if you have lead and powder, you will have a rifle capable of taking down just about anything and will last as long as you live.

  128. No ideas here Annie ( other than sit back and wait it out ). Primers are needed for all modern firearms and caps are needed for percussion blackpowder weapons. Most of us regulars must sound a bit like the Ammosexual so aptly described by tmcgyver.

    I been called a lot of weird things in my day mcgyver. That one is one to remember!

    I have faith in the short memories of many people. I also obtained some powder from estate sales during the last ammo drought. If you have a place to store it, these commodities are worth a lot in modern American Society today. Makes me glad I bought years ago when the price and availability were there. Along with these components, get the reloading manuals so you can reload and shoot safely. Materials are worthless or dangerous without the knowledge to put it to good use.

    In a world with no primers, I would get a fletching vise, epoxy and materials to make my own arrows or crossbow bolts. Small game would be the realm of trappers, Use of nets and game drivers to capture birds.

    1. Calirefugee – Oh no my laundromat befouling friend. YOU are clearly a firearms enthusiast, which is several grades separated from a “Gun Nut”, which in turn is far removed from the habits and behaviors of a true Ammosexual. If you ever spent 5 minutes in a room with him, you might emerge in a state of shell-shock from the crap you’ll hear. … Most of it is accurate, which is really scary. Given the tenor of society right now, I hope he outgrows his fetish quickly. I’ve tried introducing him to the satisfying, lawful practice of cat spinning. We have this really fat one, with short stubby legs and long wispy low friction fur. Can spin that sucker on 3-axis and she’ll find balance, like a corpulent feline gyroscope. He’s not interested. Not enough recoil.

  129. Reply to Ision: Thank you for reminding me of my faith in human ingenuity to either reinvent the wheel or resurrect an idea that was tried and shelved years ago. (I believe it was Remington that tried to introduce the idea of electronic ignition within a deer rifle cartridge in a bolt rifle platform decades ago.) Other ideas include caseless ammo and polymer casings in some weapons systems. ( the caseless ammo idea was from the Military. The only innovation I have seen recently has been the new generation of low-residue ammo that burns cleaner and hotter in the past 10 years.

    tmcgyver: I’m still laughing about being an ammosexual though I do not derive stimulation, excitement or orgasm by the discharge of a weapon. I hope your son wears safety glasses and has a good dental plan because recoil can be fierce enough to loosen fillings and bring on migraine headaches. He just has not reached the point where internally he say: “enough is enough.” Repairing and adjusting sights on an elephant gun for a client headed to Africa was where I finally had enough recoil. It is a young person’s job much like doing the rodeo circuit.

  130. @tmcgyver: Fat cat spinning is a job you retire into after building up your herd at home. I am not sure which has a lower friction coefficient: polished wood flooring or linoleum. My new addition that was temporarily named Dweezle ( cross between a Dweeb and a Weasel ). is eating a lot of every-type of food and is plumping out. He no longer resembles a weasel in body shape and is more of a bowling-pin profile now. He also gets sleepy after eating a lot so there is good spinning potential developing at this time.

    My first cat was an indoor and outdoor cat so he would hunt down and bring me presents and leave them on the doormat. ( dead mice ). One time he was there with a gift as I returned home from a varmint hunting trip. The family that slays together stays together.

  131. My apologies to Ken for taking this serious conversation and taking it sideways into decadent and deviant lifestyles of those darn Southern Californians ( of which I was one of them ). and bringing in other topics like the spinning of fat cats on hard smooth surfaces.

    When I typed this and entered it, I pictured Dennis, Kula and NRP shaking their heads saying: “You boys ain’t right!” I chock it up to being a Left Coast thing.

    They have bumper stickers up here sayin’: Keep Portland Weird! Los Angeles Residents don’t need no freakin’ stickers. Weird is normal. Harmful to others is not…

  132. I’m trying to get my granddaughters into shooting so I built a 243 cal AR-10 so it wouldn’t have to much recoil. I find all kinds of ammunition except 243. The stores say they never get that caliber in. I understand y’all are busy, I’m busy at my work also. I’ve called every place within 100 miles. Are y’all making 243? Thanks for all your hard work.

    1. Try ammoseek.com or gunbroker. Apparently Midway has some Hornady now, but will likely go quickly. Not cheap.

      I’m sure someone else will chime in on the reloading aspect.

  133. What Bull crap I search the web each week for many calibers and except for a few that have crap ammo you don’t want, everyone is out of stock !!!

  134. Not just hard to find .GONE. As well as primers and Casings . Has anyone seen walking dead . They didn’t even have to take our guns

  135. I’ve used ammo as currency. Owed this guy $50. He’d rather take 50 rounds of 45acp instead. Done deal. Hmmm…on 2nd thought I might have gotten the short end of that stick. lol

  136. If its really a demand issue, then why can’t the dealers can’t get any? Its not that they’re getting their orders in and selling out right away. They’re not getting any in to start with.

    1. The auctions are overflowing with ammo it’s just 7 or 8 times the prices pre Covid. I went online last night and couldn’t help but laugh my head off at the ridiculous gouging taking place.

      I believe in capitalism but those folks are robbing people blind and they know it. They are the ones that went out and hoarded thousands of rounds that they never intend to use kinda like the paper towel and toilet paper hoarders.

      No thanks, lol l’ll hang onto my limited supply and hopefully wait this out assuming Biden doesn’t go full gun grabber on us which is looking more and more likely to be the case

    2. Greg, many dealers are only selling ammo if you purchase the discharge unit. They limit you to one or two boxes. Others will let go a box here and there if you have been a good and continual customer.

  137. I’ve heard reports that the shortages might last six months back in early December.

    Now that Biden has all branches of government and the Supreme Court is weak and set to be packed by more of those gun grabbing wanna bes it might be 4 years if it ever gets back to some level of normalcy of stock on the shelves and prices. Not kidding. All you have to do is read the outline for HR127 they just submitted. The whole bill is geared around crushing supply

    1. I found a store with a Bergara B-14 HMR in 6.5 that I’ve been wanting to add to my collection. I put it in the online shopping cart and started to check out but I decided to add some ammo to my cart first. Not one box of 6.5 available so I started checking everywhere online that I could find and nowhere has any available. Not much use in buying a new rifle if I cant find anything to shoot in it. I guess I’ll stick with my stockpile of 9mm and .223 until this is over.

  138. I dont know not planning to being a self reliant company as best you can. Is just bad buisness modeling. You would think you would want to create as much as possible to keep control of the supply of materials to make your product, and be so reliant on the supply chain. To where you only really need a few raw materials to end up with the end product. You could also sell the excess production for operation costs, or a profit. Personal opinion.

  139. Nothing is available now, no rifle, no pistol and that includes cases, primers, bullets and just recently powder. You cannot tell me anyone is producing anything, I called local stores, out of state stores nobody has anything. Where is all this ammo if it’s being produced?

    1. Empty shelves means it isn’t being produced? Interesting illogical conclusion. Reality is, it can be found.

      1. 12 gauge ammo still readily available in the south. As of last weekend you still could find a Mossy Maverick 88 in the low $200 range.

  140. Hi all:
    Just for the heck.of it I stoped in the local Pawnshop/EVIL-GUN-SHOP, yesterday ( now remember that I lost everything to a boating accident on Navajo Lake)
    Anyways the place looked like a ghost town. NADA… Some oddball stuff (very little) so I asked JFS&G the pricing of typ ammo.
    5.56 $1.03 per
    M855 $2.00 per
    9mm $0.90 per
    40 cal $0.80 per
    22 $0.50 per HOLY SHIT
    12GA $$0.50 per
    Guess I won’t be replacing anything soon….
    PS:
    Normally the shop has from 50-150 boom-sticks in stock. I saw 8……
    Walked out empty handed. Just shaking my head. DAMB LAKE!!!

    1. NRP,,,,, I’m packing to move ,dam shot shells are heavy ,,,,so was going to donate part of my stash to a training program for kids ,,,4,000 rds ,12g trap stuff ,with clays and thrower ended up selling for ..75cents per ,,absurdity ,nuts ,unreal , and just for fun said wanted silver ,blank looks on all but one ,got silver !!! ,,,,,,, he told me was going to ask a dollar per,,,,
      A world gone mad,,,,, ,oh well who is John Galt? ,,,,,,,,,,,
      Got more for the kids too ,,,,,,,,
      Tea and chocolate or hot chocolate and cookies?

      1. Old-Fart:
        $o.75 ?? Holy Crap
        Absolutely frigging NUTS!!
        BTW thank you for helping you the “kid’s” good man.
        Who is John Galt…. got that right, it’s coming BIG TIME

  141. Hi all:
    Just a word, got home from a quick trip to the Evil Big Box store.
    On way back stopped by the local Boom Boom Shop….
    Ready for this???

    223 (not 5.56) was available…
    $37.99 per box of 20 Plus Tax.
    Yeppers…. $2.056 EACH!!!!

    1. Oh my freaking word! 2$ a round! That is insane. Maybe it’s time to sell the arsenal and retire! (just kidding… i don’t have anything…)

      1. Ken & All:
        Remember when 223 was $o.23 a round, thought it was high back then…. ohhhh yeah, that was 2 years ago.

        Think foods not going to do the same?
        Gas here is up 15% in 10 days.

        Was yacking with a “friend”, someone who I trust. He’s saying even if the Republicans break the monopoly in 2 years, it will take close to 15 years to recover from these past 10 days…..
        Something to think about.

      2. $200 for the average therapy session????………finally getting close to what they’re worth

  142. this ammo shortage is unreal. I bought a 40 cal. handgun last year and a 50 round box of shells, there isn’t much out there now, never imagined things would ever be this way. Some folks are doing a lot of hoarding, also gun buying for self protection and I don’t blame them. I got an email from CTD just recently and certain handgun ammo was going for $80 for 50 rounds, unreal. Just ma\ybe somewhere down the road things will get back to normal, hope so.

      1. 223 mags were one of the first things I stocked up on. I figure anything holding more than 10 rounds will be banned soon.

  143. Stopped at 3 places today (2 big box stores) looking for M1 friendly .30-06 and nothing at all. One place had a few boxes of .25-06 and a box of .380. The coffers really are bare :/

  144. It is only going to get worse. He in our future the government can’t stop you from owning a firearm but I bet they are going to restrict what ammo you buy. It has always been a ” what if” happened so how do you keep yourself in ammo? Reloading!
    It doesn’t matter what caliber you have if they limit or stop the sell ammo that 3000.00 rifle is nothing more than a paperweight. Stocking up on reloading supplies is a good thing!

  145. Reno Nv all sporting good stores have nothing it’s all gone. And I mean all gone you can’t even reload if you have the means and equipment to do that. Can’t go hunting because there is no ammo available to go and put food on the table hope this will end soon for all the hunters out there. Online everything is gone as well. If you do find ammo it is so highly priced you can’t afford it. Don’t know what is going on but me personally think the corrupt government has their hands in this. That is just me. We have seen this before with Obama in office with the .22 lr. Hope thing will go back to normal soon.

  146. As of 2-11-21 all ammo suppliers got stocked up this week. WHAT? Yep Stores, online and they are starting to sell with penny auctions. Seems to selling for $1.00 plus/round. I sure would like to know what up. This smells to high-heaven.

    1. Tracking? Do the feds finally have systems in place so they can track who buys what without a warrant?

  147. Well now in the middle of Feb the ammo is gone again. The 9MM and 22LR ammo is out of stock. Don’t know about .223/5.56 have not looked for that.

  148. Ammunition manufacturers say they are working overtime. But WHERE is the product going? Several stores in my general area can’t get shipments in, and their suppliers tell them it’s not available. I don’t subscribe to conspiracy theories but some things don’t look right. There are many new gun owners that are “blamed” for buying it….so then where are THEY finding it when I can’t, and when I am probably much more familiar with places to get it?

    1. I have no problem getting as much ammo as I wish. It is just the cost of doing so is very high, compared to what it used to be a few years ago.

      If you can pay just over a dollar a round, you can get just about anything.

  149. John,

    Tell us how you really feel about the price of ammo! :)

    Just wondering, what will you do if prices double again and then double again after that? Today’s prices will seem like a heck of deal, won’t they?

    I suggest that you cost average; BUY regularly especially if you shoot regularly. That way you will always have a supply as well as be able to feed your hobby. Better yet, reload!

  150. – Stopped in the local farm and ranch store yesterday, glanced over at the ammunition shelves and saw a large stack of boxes there. When I walked over to look at them, realized I was looking at over 400 150-round boxes of .22  LR Aquila (made in Mexico) evenly split between solids and HP. The only other thing on the shelves was a dozen boxes of 12 ga 7 ½ shotshells, which I didn’t need.

    They were continuing to stand by their policy of only one box per caliber per customer per day to make sure everyone who needed ammunition could get some,  but I did leave the store with a few additional rounds, even though they were out of what I had gone in for. (They expected a shipment Thursday possibly)

    – Papa S.

    1. Papa Smurf I’ve got friends that have successfully opened and reloaded those 7.5 shot shells to make better rounds. A little knife work and glue job. As far as I can see pattern same as normal buckshot shells. I’ve found you can still get #4 buck pellets or as I’ve seen it in the Philippines’ you can make them yourself with a molds, a steel can and heat. At least you’d have primers.

      This was discussed earlier as reasonably safe given that lead is lead and the space inside the shot cup would actually hold LESS Weight of Lead due to air space between pellets.

      1. – NH Michael,
        Sorry I wasn’t clear. I am currently adequately stocked on shotshells, I didn’t need any more. And I am one of those who has reloaded shotshells with “more useful” size shot before.

        I was just really pleased to be able to pick up .22 LR (won’t mention price, because reasonable went by the wayside several years ago)

        – Papa

        1. Chuckling older Brother I am not surprised you’ve redone shot shells. :-) Reasonable price for ammo is a very relative matter. I suspect that the “Old” prices will not be seen again in our lifetime.

          Wasn’t a Shot of Rotgut Whisky so named because a cowboy might trade a single 45 long colt round for one? Even then that round was very close to a days pay for some workers. Cowboys like Sailors often went months accumulating pay with no where to spend it until it was Saloon time eh?

          Someday perhaps a few 22 LR *might* get you a laying hen. Time will tell :-)

          I understand Aquila is good but dirty 22 ammo? Perhaps corrosive primers maybe? Maybe a report sometime please?

          1. NH Michael,

            I’ve shot quite a bit of Aguila rimfire ammo starting back during one of the previous shortages. Never had any problems with it.

            Dirty? I put it in the same league with Remington or Winchester. Pretty sure it’s non-corrosive. I’ve never run across any modern manufacture ammo that is, mainly just older manufacture military surplus from communist bloc countries.

  151. NHM- regarding Aquila .22 ammo, I receive a monthly magazine from USCCA, Read an article last year or the year before about Aquila ammo (all) was dirty due to using inferior gun powder. Indicated firearm required cleaning after 50/100 Rounds fired and possible pitting of barrel requiring repair. That’s all I recall, I stopping buying their ammo. Hope that helps.

  152. Just got off the phone with an old buddy, former co-worker, and competition shooter. Talk turned to the ammo shortage. He shared that he had just ordered 100,000 primers from Europe, a brand called GINEX.

    Price you might ask? 25 cents each…..you read that right…..$25,000 for 100,000 primers…..and he’s on a waiting list.

    Still think that a $10 loaf of bread is not possible?

  153. The ammo doesn’t even hit the shelf, when the f will the American public fight back against the democrats? They stole the election and now all the firearms and ammo. Impeach biden (not the president now)

  154. I stopped by Bass Pro Shop today and they had ammo on their shelves. The shelf was only about 1/2 stocked but it was at more or less normal prices.

  155. Now that some time has elapsed. The ammo shortage is more a reality than it has ever been. Depending on the caliber, and type ammo has gone through the roof, and reloading is no longer a “pastime” that you can call affordable. The reality now is that if you have ammo KEEP IT, and if your trying to get ammo, GET IT WHILE YOU CAN. If your going to buy a firearm consider what it is your going to shoot it with and see if it’s practical to buy a gun in the caliber you can’t find ammo for. Until things change my estimate is that this shortage will only increase the prices for persons who wish to buy and shoot guns. So, keep on networking with friends, and share resources when you have them, and pay it forward when you can. For those of you who know what I’m talking about, you know this is the only way we can even try to keep up with the shortage. Good Luck to all who exercise their second amendment rights to bear arms.

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