SYSTEMIC RISKS

Skip 2 or 3 Meals And Tell Me How You Feel

empty plate hungry

I want you to try and understand the desperation that will unfold if “the people” were to go hungry. This weekend something happened that made me think of this…

We had no breakfast (Mrs.J and I). I normally eat later in the morning (brunch) anyway, so no big deal.

We decided to do a supply run over to the town that actually has a few ‘big box’ stores to pick up a few things that we can’t find here in our local area.

As it turns out, we were there a lot longer than anticipated as the clock ticked into the mid afternoon.

At one point, we suddenly realized that we were hungry! Really hungry! Having not eaten since the evening before, maybe 20 hours had gone by. Of course we weren’t technically starving, but when you’re really hungry you might say “I’m starving!” – that’s how we felt.

(Of course this happens on a semi-regular-random basis – as I sometimes get caught up in what I’m doing, or a project,… suddenly extra hungry since I’ve skipped a meal or two.)

It got me to thinking about “what if”. What if nearly everyone around you was really hungry! Do you realize how desperate that situation could become? (Analogous to a broad reaching SHTF event affecting distribution within our JIT system)

During the time span while I was really hungry that day, just about all I could think about was getting something to eat. Now imagine if that hunger went into day 2 without food? Talk about hungry…!

We in the modern world are so ridiculously spoiled when it comes to the availability of food. It really is a stunner to think about what might happen if the masses went without food for a day, or even two! Three? That would be insanity…

So the next time you’ve skipped a few meals or three, and get really hungry, think about that feeling you have — the instinctive desire/drive/priority to get something to eat (because you’re so hungry). Now imagine all your neighbors the same way, or worse!

It’s an eye-opener for the importance of having a decent food supply storage at home for preparedness. And, the importance of understanding the desperation that will be all around you regarding others who are really hungry.

Food for thought.

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47 Comments

  1. Had to do that recently. Had to have surgery on my foot. Nothing to eat or drink after midnight. I go to bed very early, anyway, but this time it was extra early since we had to go all the way to Casper. My friend insisted on leaving at 3:45 am, since we were supposed to be there at 10 for 11:15 surgery. (She wanted to be early in case there was a cancellation of one of the earlier surgeries.) Surgery didn’t happen until 2 o’clock due to delays with one of the previous surgeries. Then my surgery took 2 hours. Then my friend wanted to get back home as soon as possible, so we didn’t eat until we grabbed empty calorie snacks at a gas station around 6. I had tried to get her to eat while we were waiting for my surgery, but she wouldn’t. So both of us went more than 24 hours without eating. I was starved. She claimed she was fine.

    1. Maybe she snuck a snack during your surgery ;)

      But see what I mean? You didn’t eat for 24 hours. Remember how hungry you were? Remember how that’s all you wanted to focus on was getting something to eat? (Your body doing it’s instinctive job prioritizing and signaling). Now imagine going into Day #2?

      Our bodies can survive for a surprisingly long time without food. But we will get weak pretty quickly, and, our priority will become “Get some food”! Now imagine everyone around you in the same boat…

      People WILL come to your house if they know you have food.

      That’s “food for thought”.

  2. I think most of us have gone without eating or drinking water for 24 -36 hours and remember that feeling of weakness and muddled thinking which goes with it. But going beyond two days without food probably has not happened to a majority of Americans. I have traveled to many poor third-world countries and seen real poverty and hunger; it is heart breaking. The poorest American, whether homeless, mentally ill, or addicted to some substance has access to some type of free food and shelter. For whatever reason, some folks just choose to not to receive help.

    To bring this discussion closer to home; there are always a variety of answers on blogs as to whether we will help our unprepared neighbors when the SHTF; some say yes, some no, some give to the local church and some threaten death to anyone who comes near their property. I don’t think there is one answer on whether to help or not; I think it just depends on individual circumstances.

    When my elderly neighbor’s well went out, we provided water for all their needs. When their AC went down, we provided fans to help. When they get sick I take them to the doctor and provide appropriate meals for several days. When the SHTF I will take care of them; but, I will NOT take care of their lazy a$$ kids and would probably threaten them if they came near my property. Like I said above, it depends on the individual circumstances.

    1. Farmmom,

      I live in a town of 1,800 where most of the people have some food stored (nearest large grocery is 55 miles away) and many have gardens. My plan is to contact the town and ask them if they will set up a soup kitchen for the poor, elderly, unprepared, disabled, travelers, etc. Then I will donate some of my food and other items, such as warm clothing, soap, toothpaste, matches, batteries, & other things I have lots of. I will certainly have some frozen food that will go to waste if someone doesn’t eat it (especially if the weather is warm.) I also have food that requires a lot of fuel and I probably don’t want to use an hour of fuel to cook a spoonful of beans.

      When I started prepping, I stored what the LDS said, but later realized that I should store food that doesn’t take a lot of cooking, such as instant beans, instant rice, canned food and dehydrated food. You can get instant pasta now. I have a lot of #10 cans with dry beans, regular pasta, regular rice, etc. to share, and in the summer I always have extra food from my garden. So I will start donating food to our soup kitchen — a little at a time after I see how many other people are donating and how dangerous it is to walk around town with a bag of food.

      There is a community center 1 1/2 blocks from my house and that seems to me the best place for them to have an outdoor soup pot. However, there seems to be an idea among our town fathers that aid in an emergency should be doled out from the senior center (5 blocks from me). There are also 3 churches within 2 blocks from me. So I will donate as much as much as I can. If there is a place where people can go to get food for their children, the whole town will be safer.

      I don’t think it is a good idea for an elderly woman living alone to give away food to individuals, unless it is to a very close friend.

  3. Missing a few meals and being hungry is one thing. Consistently missing is entirely another. Your mind will no longer make the right decisions, your dexterity and joints will suffer and fine motor skills will go downhill and your sleep patterns will disrupt. For those who haven’t been deployed or otherwise seen real prolonged hunger the TV show Naked and Afraid does a good job at showing numerous things with that downhill progression in just a few weeks. Remember we have to work, pull guard duty, collect water, grow/hunt/harvest, raise kids and even fight during these times and food is fuel.

    Your physical conditioning also plays heavily into it. Those on strict diets don’t fare well and neither do those who are fat. Those with 2% body fat and that take supplements all day usually struggle hard as well at the front especially with constipation. Your a vegan or fruitician or whatever that was that posted today your going to suffer more than the one who eats whatever and does the workload and works out on a regular basis. The diets will change to whatever is available and if it’s a mockingbird, dandelion leaves and a grub then so be it.

  4. The average Household has 3 days of food (if that), TSHTF and the systems go down, How long before those neighbors come a knocking? I’m thinking 3 days MAX!

    As to Kens experience of missing 2-3 meals.

    Try scheduling a Colonoscopy at 2:30PM. Nothing to eat the dinner before, drink a gallon of NASTY goo and staying within 5 feet of the Porcelain Thorn for 3-4 hours (thank God for that 600 rolls hehehe), Nothing for Breakfast OR Lunch (not even water), have a party with the Doctor that’s 2 hours late, THAN into recovery for an hour…….. 100% empty Gut, and nada a thing to eat till you drive to a local Restaurant for a Grease Burger. NOW That’s Hungry even McDonalds taste good at that point.

    Ok now multiply that by no food available for weeks/months on end………

    Hence I keep a fairly extensive Fat Layer to help out with those times   Helps with the cold weather also hehehe

    1. NRP
      I was going to bring up a similar experience. The prep and all doesn’t bother me as much as the week feeling. Had a relative go in for a colonoscopy, when he arrived was told to come back next day because of a problem. Said it was hell, partly because of the mental aspect of changing his mind set to wait another day.

  5. Back in my younger years, I would, several times a year, fast for 3 days. Nothing to do with religion, just to give my body a chance to clear out the bowels. The first two days were always tough, by the third day my hunger sort of disappeared. The caveat was that I knew this fast was self imposed, and I knew I could end it at any time. I fear that three days without food and not knowing when, or even if, there would be a meal in the future would send some into panic mode.

    It has always been a part of my shtf plan to immediately go to half rations for myself, at least for the first month, so as to extend my preps and to buy time till I get a better handle on what I’m facing long term. I’ll not ask those who depend on me to do the same, but I suspect they probably would follow my example.

    I would also suspect that if you keep yourself a little bit hungry, you will keep a more watchful eye to protect your stores from pilferers.

    1. Dennis,
      We already do several days a week of modified meals…( call it a snack.) for one meal most days. time varies, often delay meals for ??reason, trips etc.. . We also will drastically modify our diet…for same reason you state. May get tired of what we have, skipping meals for days will not happen intentionally-no tolerated well.People who are not conscious can not keep watch.
      This is why we prep! Those on special diets will suffer first, only if they have not stored sufficient supplies of what they require. Have a dietary limitation, require high levels of protein…? Modifying a diet slowly- CAN increase tolerance- to a lesser amount of food combination. This is easiest done by limiting what one KNOWS makes them hungry.- usually carbs+ increasing foods that signal satisfaction… ie meat/fats. this usually works well for those who are insulin resistant, hypoglycemic and can help diabetics adjust as their medication supply needs to be stretched. Those who are on special diets need to know how much they can adjust their diet to a lack of a certain food or food type.
      Notice in the news China is out of cooking oil they have purchased a huge amount of red palm oil to use as cooking fats.. I tried that stuff one time.. it stinks.
      . Having back ups for the backups…a necessary thing.
      flour and oil will make a lot of things from flat bread to gravy.
      Think fats folks… olive , grape seed , sunflower and coconut oil,pork and bacon fat, butter, ghee,.( and any other fat you normally use) Don’t use much oil ?? There are options! olive oil will store well for 3 years in freezer. butter , put in ziplocks or food saver bags ditto.Ghee has long shelf life in the cool pantry. Coconut oil has 2 year dates, some have said will store 4-5 years. Friend has hogs, makes own lard..stores in pint jars, with zero headspace. sterilized jars, sterilized dry lids, hot lard. clean rim and seal… cool room. currently up to 6 years in test./still tastes fresh.

  6. As a teenager my family did a 24-hr fast monthly (religious). It never got easier, by about hour 20-22 I always felt tired and kind of ill. All I could think about was eating… food consumed my every thought by hour 23.

    I cannot imagine how bad a person would feel after a couple of days of no food – or how desperate to get a hold of something to eat no matter what it would take.

    As an adult, I always had extra food in the house. Even before I adopted a more formalized preparedness-mindset, I could not relate to prople who could afford food but chose to let their cupboards go bare through laziness, disorganization, etc…

    I realize there are many people who do not have the means to eat regular meals, and food pantries and similar non-profits are always at the top of my donation list.

    And in an emergency, I believe desperately hungry people would be a huge threat. And we know it would not take much time for a lot of people to be desperately hungry.

  7. Apparently it’s “good for you” to fast once in awhile. Skipping food for a day. Would certainly help with weight loss too (if that’s an issue)!

    1. Thee is a lot of information on intermittent fasting.. routinely holding all food for 12-20 hours.. several days a week…not necessarily in a row… It has also been shown to boost immunity and stem cell production in healthy adults.

  8. Just think about the dad who has 2-3-4 children and they start to starve. I know my boys get squirrely after 5-6 hours without a meal. A dad would do anything for his family. This makes for a dangerous unpredictable person that would make very poor decisions under duress.

    A dude with a simple kitchen knife can be lethal. That 20 ft. distance to keep away from others would be highly advisable if the situation got bad within 48 hours.

    Ken had an article and video a couple of years ago on a study for police officers and their reaction & defense time for a person to lunge forward at them with a knife. I believe 20ft. was the minimum distance one should keep from a threat.

    [Ken adds: Self Defense Threat and the Tueller Distance 21-Foot Rule]

    1. A study by Sgt. Dennis Tueller (no relation) of the Salt Lake City P.D. determined that an attacker with a knife, on average, could cover a distance of 21 feet in 1.5 seconds, about the average time a police officer can draw his weapon from the holster including reaction time of 3/4 second.

      1. Dennis Thank you for the info 21 ft….not 20 although still way too close for a normal person who does not train every week.

        1. White Cracker,

          I left out part of the drill which includes getting an effective shot on target 21 feet away in that 1.5 seconds.

          A fun drill is to face the target 21 feet away with a buddy with a whistle back to back with you. Put a stake in the ground 21 feet behind you. Have the buddy tweet the whistle as a signal for you to engage the target simultaneous with his taking off running, tweeting the whistle when he passes the stake. You win if you can draw and hit center mass before he gets to the stake.

          Pick a young friend in good shape. It would take me 3 or 4 seconds to cover 21 feet……with the wind at my back………on a good day. One of the reasons I practice my pistol skills every day……..running is no longer an option.

          1. Aww jeeze, Dennis.

            Feel the need with your every day training posts.

            I got ammo burning in my pocket.

            Got the swivel target set up yet?

  9. I do that on the weekends, usually one meal. More or less 24 hrs. But further than that, no way. Being a diabetic, I should eat regularly. I can’t, I don’t.
    My mind on tasks get me thru the weekend, but the work week, I need a small snack, small lunch, then FWTB makes supper.
    But why is it when you have to fast twelve hours, for surgery, blood draws, etc. You can’t or is nearly impossible? What? NO COFFEE?
    And those damn food commercials, hit about that time, every time.
    Turn and walk away…..

    1. Joe c:
      Just as a side note…
      When ya going to turn the FWTB into DW?????
      A lot less typing ya know.

      There is never a better time than now 😁😁😁😁

    1. Joe C,
      Hung? When I butcher deer or elk I get hungrier than the dog. Usually take a break and fry up some tenderloin with garlic and butter. Yum!

      1. Minerjim
        Lol
        Yuck
        Me appetite diminishes.
        No rabbit with my rabbit
        No chicken with my.chicken.
        Venison backstraps? Ummm, Give me a few hrs. to clear me head…..
        Just my way

        1. Of course, I remember my much younger years….
          Me and my cuz collecting/bb gunnin’ frogs, for my Aunt to clean and fry frog legs….
          Butter, little bit of flour and salt/pepper
          Yummy.
          …. wasn’t this article about doing with out?

  10. I only eat when I’m hungry. I’m one of those people who, “eat to live, not live to eat.” I don’t like store bought food, allergies to all the crap they put in our “FOOD”.
    Even when I was a baby, I’d eat once in a while. Drove my Mon nuts. Doc told her, He won’t starve, he’ll eat when he gets hungry.
    I have gone as long as 8 days (on purpose) without food, but I had water, there are dramatic changes that occur. Mostly, you run out of energy, and purpose-able thought go to [email protected]

    Fasting or starvation, either way, your body makes changes, quick too, some, cannot be undone. Dehydration kills alot faster than starvation, a LOT faster.

    1. There’s a reason that the pepto-bismol aisle is in the middle of the store, surrounded by aisles of pre-packaged foods. : )

  11. NRP
    Lol
    Yes I know!
    Even my best bud in highschool was asking the same, recently.
    As a side note:
    Start harping on Kula.
    He’s in the same boat as I, I believe!
    ROFL

  12. So best to start now, hm? Make sure you don’t eat anything after 7, or before 7. It’s called intermittent fasting. Then once a week stretch it to 5 and 9. Some people prefer the longer time, they feel better after. When you can do 5-9 consistently, you might try longer periods. I know people who have lost a great deal of weight this way. But drink (water, not soda or other yuck) if you can.

    I find that if I’m hungry staying active (mentally and/or physically) helps a lot. For me it’s the first few hours that are the worst.

    1. I used to live on $15/ month for food when I was a student back in the early 70s. One chicken for the whole week, one meal a day. Now I don’t eat breakfast, sometimes skip lunch, but 5 pm I gotta put something in my stomach or i am gonna have issues. Point well taken Ken. Modern man will be reduced to dealings after missing a couple of meals, and animals after a couple of days without food. Very dangerous to deal with at that point, imho.

      1. Minerjim,

        Good point you just made that many preppers don’t take into account. All those family dogs, many of which will be reduced to fending for themselves. I’ve witnessed myself, as a police officer in a big city, packs of feral dogs fending for themselves in poor neighborhoods. After a few generations in a feral environment there is a transformation into a more primitive breed of their own, with pit bull characteristics evident (probably due to the large population of pit bulls in depressed areas). When running in packs, they are a bigger threat to humans than wolves because of their lack of a natural fear of man.

        1. Dennis — You forget, in many cultures they eat dog. Even the family dog. I love my dog. Greatly. But if I had starving children and SHTF, ………

          Strong suspect those packs of feral dogs would become easy pickings for many.

          1. – Going back over an older post, came across this and thought I might have something worth saying. Several years ago, when I first got out of the Army and moved into a house in town, I heard one night a ruckus in the street out front.

            On investigating, my son’s pet cat was facing a Pit Bull that was the apparent culprit in killing my youngest daughter’s cat a couple of weeks prior. The only thing immediately at hand was my Crosman 1377, being as we were in town, and I was reluctant to release a .357 in a built-up area where I barely knew anyone.

            Long story short, one .177 air rifle pellet from that 10″ barrel quietly put that dog on the ground. The cat, all 14 pounds of him, first stared at the dead dog, cautiously sniffed him, then strutted off like he had had something to do with it.

            The dog ended up in a black plastic trash bag, and it was pretty much all I could do to consign him to the dumpster. No backlash from neighbors/community, and when I told the local Police Chief what I had done, I got an attaboy from him; evidently the dog was a well-known problem.

            Point being, if a puny little pellet gun can put a 100 or so pound dog down with one shot, I’m not going to worry too awfully much about packs of feral dogs or food for the masses in the short term. JMHO.

            FWIW, I have eaten venison taken/poached with a .22 pistol more than once.

            – Papa S.

  13. many years ago i had just turned 20 i was living down in texas at the time and was in one of those young and stupid periods i was also right in the start of addiction to drugs as well which didnt help any i went for a week without food
    it wasnt fun i finally gave up and went back home to ny state when i did get back home i was so hungry it wasnt funny but my stomach had shunrk i could only eat a little at a time that time messed me up in a big way now i plan WAY ahead and bring some traveling food every time i go more than 50 miles from home

  14. There’s a lot of folks here who seem to regularly on purpose/by accident skip a meal or more. Some do it a lot.

    I am curious, what sort of foods you eat before that meal skipping/after that meal skipping? I am thinking the type of food (on either end of this) will/might make a big difference in one’s lasting ability/willingness to do it again.

    I have the general thought of my own experience (not something I’ve paid much attention to, just trying to recall)…that if I eat some type of “non” processed foods, including protein and veg and maybe potato, on either end of this, I had much more easily gone without a meal or two.

    Which brings me to another thought….Half the population mostly lives off of one type of processed food or another. If SHTF, besides the masses craving the prescription/over the counter meds no longer available, I think they will also be craving the processed foods (full of various chemicals).

  15. Is it just calories, or perhaps specific nutrients? I notice that if I go for a while with not a lot of protein, or miss several days taking my multi-vitamin/mineral pill, I feel hungry. One protein-heavy meal will usually do the trick, if that’s what is lacking. But it takes a few days back on vitamins to feel tip top. Extending either scenario brings a struggle to think clearly.

  16. Anytime I know I’m going out all day on a long trip I pack a lunch with food and drinks just like it’s a work day. Saves money and I know the food is safe. If you ever had food poisoning and had to drive home for 2 or 3 hours sick you why I pack my own lunch.

  17. I am thinner and leaner than my wife so I tend to get colder faster in my body core. I still walk or hike a lot in place of the running I used to do. I find I have to eat something within 24 hrs in general or I get grumpy as all heck.

    I agree with Matt in OK in that vegetarians will have a tough time in such a scenario of extended periods of no food available. We had 1 vegetarian on our fire crew in California. ( vegan – not even ova-lacto.). He ended up quitting within 2 months. I remember one time there was a break in the action so the folks at headquarters choppered in some KFC to us who finished cutting line around a spot-fire. You could hear the cheering on the radios. The only unhappy camper that day was…the vegetarian. He quit the crew the following week.

    I still carry snacks in my truck these days at all times in the form of pretzels and sprite to keep on hand for those people with intractable nausea due to pregnancy and chemo. When I travel with my wife, I pack much the same foods with us when we go on a big city expedition. The ice chest in the back of my truck also contains lots of bottled water in addition to the soda and gatorade.

    When coming off of a fast such as after a colonoscopy or the first no-fever day after the flu, I make white rice for my wife and we have some soup mix from the asian market that makes the rice with hot water into a bland but serviceable porridge. It is easier on your stomach than even Ramen Noodles. By the end of the first 24 hrs, I will sneaking small amounts of lean, cooked chicken or maybe some well-cooked beef or lean, cooked pork. My wife will eat at least 1 small cup of yogurt to help get the beneficial microbes back in her gut after and during antibiotic therapy.

    Warning note that many of the asian foods contain MSG. so you may want to keep on hand some low sodium broth packets or bullion cubes around instead.

    1. Califrefugee, Bullion has MSG,in heavy amounts. Yes i keep use sparingly. They have changed the names of MSG, is divided up as the individual chemicals. FOR those Sensitive, still should be avoided.(lip tingling after eating is one sensitivity) There are few replacements that do not have any form of glutimate..
      I make and keep bone broth, it would serve well. White rice is one of my staple foods for chronic gastritis. pro and pre biotics are helpful.. and available over the counter in many large box pharmacies.Greek yogurt, Bulgarian buttermilk.. avoid low calorie ones they have asparatine in them and interfere with bacteria regrowth in balance. I don’t tolerate milk products well but greek yugurt and one cup of buttermilk a day apart help.

  18. Response to Jane Foxe:

    You are correct in bringing up the topic of: “what constitutes a meal prior to a fast?”

    These days, extended road trips to the Outback are rarer for myself. I still remember what I used to pack as an impromptu “meal on the road” that would keep me going and something I still use to this day:

    Stop at a grocery store and pick up some individual wrapped string cheese and either dry salami or pepperoni sticks. This fulfills the fat and protein requirement in the emergency food kit if you do not feel like stopping in the Fast Food outlet in the dodgy part of town.

    If you are in the habit of carrying an ice chest in the back of your car or truck, this is an easy thing to do. I still like to have a sit-down meal at least once a day and I will have a good sized salad or bowl of soup as part of the meal which aids my digestion.

  19. – I have been out of pocket for several days. Get back and find out NRP’s pocket-picking opportunity has been passed. LOLOL

    On this subject, I have been doing this without thinking for most of my adult life. Military life will do that for you, especially when you are by yourself and not in barracks or supported closely by higher headquarters. Eating sometimes is just not a priority. Water on the other hand, is an absolute essential.

    Spoke with one of the docs I work with (since I am now a non-insulin-dependent diabetic) and have now gone to a formal fast day once a week of 36 hours with nothing but water, and a few (not more than 16, not more than twice a day) almonds. Had originally been doing 3 24-hour fast days (Monday, Wednesday, and Friday) but have found it easier to do the one 36-hour day (usually Friday and Saturday) per week. DW informs me she has been doing this now for the past couple of years, following reaching the point where she “weighed as much as I did.”

    She has lost 63 pounds but has been at it for longer than I have. I have lost 14 pounds over about six weeks of formally following this diet. I stalled at about minus ten pounds , which was when I went to the 36-hour weekly fast.

    For both of us, weight gain followed a change in lifestyle. She had to quit activities when she had gotten sick and was forced to sharply reduce her physical activities. I quit having to run daily and moving back to home, felt it to be unsafe to continue bicycle riding after a spate of car-bicycle incidents in which the bicyclist was usually killed, in our new/home area. Actually, I had originally continued to run and after a couple of close calls, decided that was not an ideal solution either. I just gave up in the interest of not getting run over by our inattentive drivers.

    – Papa S.

  20. Without food but not without water.

    Done that since I’m young, on and off.
    When I started working and living with others, we always go without food. Sometimes, a portion of the lunch or dinner shared among us. Before long , big ‘brother started “scavenging so we followed.

    Flash forward years after that, I was on a ‘ trial’. To walk.. 8pm-start, 6pm-stop, the next day. Just water to drink at three stops.. A Raincoat, my trusted te Va and a very small, barely filled 15l backpack. Big ‘brother asked.. How’s the walk? My answer was… I’m starving!!

    Chew the food slowly (longer), it will help. Especially when we’re very hungry. Haha..

    Then, the time when I have to cook for many others. Found out that I can’t really eat much when I’m done in the kitchen. Once, to cook food that I’m used to and another, never cooked any of them. It was where “acquired taste came to me.

    A friend recommended eating dates (that sweet small fruit from the middle East 😅) if I want to go further with this medium. Took his advice and never regret it.

    These days, I’ve been doing this more and more frequently. Take it as a conditioning for the coming of the world-gone-…. sideways. Fasting and cleansing along the way while doing my daily grind and finding the best recipe that can get me going longer between meals.

    Hunger. Get used to it. It won’t kill you… Sometimes.

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