nuclear targets in the united states

US Nuclear Target Map

Out of curiosity I searched for maps that may reveal nuclear targets in the United States, and I’ve posted them here for your interest.

(See below for more maps)

The nuclear targets map shown above (source file) is one that I put together based on a number of factors — looking at other maps and data including military installations, nuclear weapons storage and silo locations, bases, cities, etc..

No doubt I’ve missed a number of them, as well as other probable strategic locations. It’s simply presented as ‘food for thought’.

Note: The three larger appearing target areas shown within Montana, North Dakota, and the corner of (Wyoming, Nebraska, and Colorado) represent known ICBM silos and nuke storage.

Note: It may seem like there are more ‘red dots’ on the map than any probable nuclear attack, but believe it or not, there could potentially be more – given the many thousands of nuclear weapons in Russia (for example).

Nuclear-Exchange Targets Map on the USA

(Update) I found the following nuclear targets map in the public domain from Martin Vargic of who makes info-graphics and various maps. Targets are based on data from the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) and Wikipedia. Interestingly, fallout direction is also shown. It’s based on general prevailing wind direction. Although obviously wind direction could be different, depending on ‘today’s weather’.

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Anyone who is concerned about radiation fallout should have these:
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Note: I have several related opinion articles on ‘nuclear targets’:
(the one you’re looking at now), and the following:

[ Read: Military Nuclear Targets in USA Mainland ]
“… a list of United States military targets likely to be hit first compared with others. Although there are lots of military installations, the following military nuclear targets logically seem more likely than others to be on primary target lists.”

[ Read: The First Cities To Be Nuked ]
“…a mapped illustration of the top 30 most populated cities (and metro areas) in the United States which could potentially ‘go’ first in a nuclear war…”


The nuclear target / fallout maps shown below are in the public domain. They were first published years ago. Therefore, they vary with regards to nuclear proliferation and opinion of the day.

Some maps are older than others. They might not fully represent some of the changes which have occurred since their publish. But they are still interesting to examine, especially relative to one’s own location…

GMC 300E Plus radiation detector geiger counter

A Radiation detector / Geiger counter , certainly an asset:

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[ Read: 5 Nuclear Radiation Detector Choices ]

No one will win a nuclear exchange. History has shown that there have been psychopathic leaders. Had they possessed nuclear weapons, they surely would have used them. Are there still such people today? Of course there are. Lets hope that none of them ever are in control of ‘the button’.

The real effects surrounding the nuclear targets on any given map will depend on the type of nuclear detonation.

A ground burst detonation

It will not only pulverize everything within a given radius, but will also pulverize many countless tons of soil and dirt into the atmosphere. This will create a very dirty nuclear fallout situation.

An air burst detonation

It will still destroy buildings and everything on the ground from its shock-wave (within a blast radius). However, it will not pulverize the soil and ground like a ground burst detonation would. Therefore, this will result in less overall fallout in the atmosphere. Though this fact is not to diminish the consequences…

In both circumstances, radiation (particles) will reach into the atmosphere. The fallout cloud will drift with the lower and upper level winds. While they will eventually fall out (some quicker than others), the effects could be long lasting as radiation settles upon the land.

Nuclear Power Plants?

There are many nuclear power plants located across the country. If the power grid (or part of the power grid) goes down during a nuclear exchange, there will additionally be a high probability that some (or many) of these plants will present a real and present danger if they cannot ‘scram’ in time. While critical systems are held up by diesel backup generators and dependence on a constant delivery of fuel to keep them running.

[ Read: U.S. Nuclear Power Plants, safe distance? ]

Concerned about nuclear fallout and alpha particles? I recommend a CE / CBRN approved full face respirator mask. The following product from MIRA Safety is one good choice…

CBRN Full Face Reusable Respirator-Mask
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The Russians, Chinese, N.Korea (and others?) are apparently researching and developing Nuclear EMP technology (electromagnetic pulse). Some believe that a nuclear first strike will ‘first’ involve a salvo of EMP detonations at high altitude. Potentially via orbiting satellites, or launched from submarines or even off-shore freighters. As a result, this may likely take down the power grid, followed by a first wave of nuclear strike. The primary targets will likely be military installations, while a secondary wave will broaden in scope. Next, a third wave. Strategic bombers would mop up what’s left. The first and second wave could be all over in minutes to an hour (point being – it will be fast).

Here’s a map sourced from Business Insider whereby Stephen Schwartz suggested the following nuclear strike targets, the highest priority of which would be Minuteman ICBM bases.

Okay, that said, lets look at a few target and fallout maps…

Nuclear Target & Fallout Maps


Nuclear war survival skills reference book

A popular nuclear survival reference:

>> Nuclear War Survival Skills: Updated and Expanded Edition
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Where To Survive Nuclear War?

I created the following map a number of years ago. It indicates a few general regions where it appears as though it might be ‘safer’ than other locations. Relative to observations of nuclear target maps coupled with radiation and wind fallout patterns via prevailing winds.

Looking at it again however, there are likely several additional (potentially safe) regions here and there. I plan to re-do this map one day…

Nuclear War Survival Map USA

How Many Nuclear Weapons In The World

The approximate official world score…

12,000 (Russia)
9,400 (USA)
300 (France)
240 (China)
225 (UK)
90 (Pakistan)
80 (India)
80 (Israel)
10 (N. Korea) (More? recent reports say 60)
? (Iran?)

Nuclear Survival Preparedness:

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Because of the inherent safety, the FDA allows iOSAT™ to be sold without a prescription for radiation protection. Its use, however, should be limited to radiation emergencies, and only when recommended by emergency response authorities.

Note: People should not take iOSAT™ who have a specific allergy to iodide.

iOSAT™ is manufactured in the United States under strict FDA “GMP guidelines”. It is the only product which can be purchased by local, state and federal governments – and widely purchased by nuclear utilities.

>> iOSAT Potassium Iodide Tablets, 130 mg (14 Tablets)
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  1. One point; these maps are based on an assumption that military targets would be the only or the prime targets. It is unlikely that either Russia or China would choose to suddenly decide to comply with the Gevena Convention in a decision where not accomplishing a complete takedown of the enemy would guarantee the mutually assured destruction they fear the most. It is likely that any city with manufacturing capability, transportation hubs, airports, ports, and a long list of other attributes would be nuked as well.

    Also the prevailing winds are just that. Where I live the prevailing winds are Westerly but we regularly get warmer and wetter Southwest winds or colder and clear Northeast winds. They are the exception but not even close to rare. So in addition to looking at the prevailing winds put a circle of about 150 radius around every target and it is likely that fallout will spread within that circle as well.

    When you do these two things most of the map is covered.

    Then the kicker that probably means we all die or at least most of us; if Russia has 12,000 nukes why wouldn’t they use most of them if they decided to attack? What would they gain by using 20% of them if that meant that we could both retaliate and build ourselves back up? Why not use 90% of their nukes and destroy every city every airport, every important infrastructure???

    One last point: The worst thing any super power could do is signal their intent. Their one best hope is that they could destroy the enemy in a 90 minute salvo of missiles and bombs with very little retaliation. If China or Russia commits a massive cyber attack then it would put all our weapons on maximum alert and the decision to counterattack as soon as the initial attack is detected would be already thought out and decided. If anything it is more likely that a massive nuclear war would be preceded by friendly gestures and visits by diplomats then some kind of cyber attack.

    1. I did work for the pentagon for 20 years and very close to the command and control of our nuclear weapons (I saw everything they saw). I usually hesitate to say too much out of fear of … well, saying too much.

      1. I was under a different understanding, as I participated in an impromptu AMA on the 4chan forum with someone who claimed to have been in a similar position as Countrygirl. He stated that contrary to popular belief, targeting non-military areas is not the goal. The object is to knock out the enemy as quickly as possible in order to negotiate a surrender, which would mean only military and communications targets would be hit. He also said the exchange would likely only last 30 minutes or so, and when people asked how at risk they were he gave an x/10 rating for their area.

        1. well. yes. and no. all 12000 missiles would be launched. many to europe and other strategic places. military and possible sources or retaliation would not get one, two, but twenty missiles to ensure complete destruction and if at all possible preventing counter launch. then, the citys, airports and what not are all secondary. the attack plan of the united states would read like this:all is well, smiles and handshakes politically, major treaty just signed (morals mean little when your about to hopefully be the planets only remaining people. THEN 0300 am while most are asleep and military has less brass awake, cyber attack nationwide. 0301 missiles launch in massive salvo. 0302 massive EMP from orbit.
          nuclear sites pounded with two dozen missiles each, some shot down, some burnt in atmosphere, some just didnt work, most intended targets annialated. minor targets… civilian airports, small to medium cities may escape damage from the random missiles interception.
          power out, welcome to primitive living. 200 million dead. 100 million burnt and dying. 20 million lucky sheltered, bunkered, mostly west texas, oregon, and a few scattered small towns.
          meanwhile, in the rest of the world… either by man, or by computer- operation spoiled sport begins. everything from germany to moscow is leveled, burnt, and massive fires consume all to bedrock. they get it worse. i promise. china no longer exist either except the high mountains.
          so then. as fallout encompasses the globe, the global population falls to a few million in a week, a million in three weeks, and perhaps 100,00 globally in a year. nuclear winter is very exaggerated but, it does exist. the biggest problem is long lasting strontium or whatever is sprayed about. 30-100 years later,
          a few tribes living like american indians from remote and untouched parts of the globe walk a new world and only the stories of the old world remain.

        2. Nukes are mostly Gamma rays now. You can come out after 30 days. Still not a good situation.
          But survivable.
          Nuclear Technology is 75 years old now. I think the Powers That Be have more devastating secret weapons now.
          Absorbing a 1st strike in the USA would only be used to destroy the Constitution & bring in the FEMA run continuity of Government.
          Babylon rises up out of her ashes, for a biblical ref.

          Food , water, shelter for 30 days. Then move out & keep moving or get rounded up for FEMA Camps.
          Now’s the time to set up secret resupply locations, urban or rural (geocache). Map out your area, get to know it. Learn to travel light & hide in plain sight.

        3. I wonder what the real government plan is. What other weapons exist that we don’t know about? Remember Reagan’s Strategic Defense Initiative (SDI), derisively nicknamed the “Star Wars program”? That has to be up and running. What if the US has the capability to annihilate any country it wants too. so many questions. my main one being around the fact that we have basically lived under the threat of nuclear war for 75 years and that there is likely something else more sinister.

        4. In the old days, Soviet leaders thought they could ride out a nuclear war in their bunkers. If there’s a “secret technology” on our side, it’s nothing too fancy. It’s that we let them know their bunkers aren’t safe. Back in the 60s we already had nukes positioned deep under the Kremlin and in other strategic spots. Easy enough to do that when most of the population in your enemy’s country already hates their insane dictators. And it doesn’t require any magical new technology, just good old human intel.

        5. US and Russia have only 1500 nukes they can use immediately; the rest are in storage. And most of those nukes would be air bursts, so little radiation. Most of the radiation would be gone within 2 days, so it wouldn’t be the whole map. Strontium would not be that prevalent.

      2. @ zappalives

        Must likely you will get a better response to “I am asking for some level headed responses to help ease my anxiety” if you don’t start with a statement like “…first step towards an ignorant madman getting us all killed … “

        That only sounds like you’re looking for a fight.


        1. You guys sure do love your completely baseless conspiracy theories…

        2. Its called exercising your mind considering possible and probable scenarios so that one can make decisions so as to not be caught off guard and un prepared,,,

          But mental midgets such as yourself dont have any understanding of things more complex than sniffing kids hair

        3. Guest,
          it’s sad to say but the conspiracy theories have turned into hard life lessons for most people.
          take care, i don’t see it getting any better anytime soon. hope i’m wrong again.

        4. Guest, I worked for both the justice and treasury departments in my career and they are biggest preppers in the world, their main reason for prepping was due to their fear of the American public and how to control it during any “crisis” We worked under executive order 12356 ( you can look up executive orders on the web) and everything was classified to keep out of sight of the public. You are either very naive or a disinformation analyst. black flag events are real and the planning responses and controls are frightening. Persons that wear blinders believe this only happens in the movies are same people that think government is there to help you. Grow up and smell the thorns.

        5. The good old liberal use of conspiracy theories that the left loves to use to hide the truth that shows their stupidity.

        6. Whatever man can think of, he will do. This is where probabilities come into play. Many of us hope for the best but understand the thinkings of man.

        1. Buy at a premium to support the fear mongers that sell them, or buy your potassium iodide tablets cheaper elsewhere.

        2. I often mention to people don’t be to obsessed with can you survive it to think of, do you really want to ?
          post-nuclear-world land is not going to be like a trip to 6 flags. You get to enjoy
          Famine, Disease, Injury, Predation, and a whole lot more during your visit to post apocalypse land. There will be no comforts, No joy. every day will be a raw struggle just to survive and the reward for success is a chance to do it all again on the following day.

          So you may want to look into an exit plan.
          Mine at the moment is live off the preps for a time then have a nice snack of lead jelly beans. Though I wouldn’t’ mind and would even prefer a few grams (3-4) of potassium cyanide in 8oz of water.

        3. Good luck with the iodine. It’s not the blast that gets you… unless you’re under it. It’s the collapse of ecosystem, and disruption of the food and farming.
          To survive and guarantee it, you need a very large private bunker in a remote area, ten years worth of food and water, and extreme competence in hunter gatherer skills

      3. I read Daniel Ellsberg’s The Doomsday Machine: Confessions of a Nuclear Planner this year. What struck me—and he worked hard to make this point in the book—is that there were and still are so many ways that a full nuclear exchange can start and be almost impossible to stop(runway accidents, wide dispersal of chain of command, breakdowns in communications, etc). The result would be a term he used called omnicide: the killing of almost every human on earth as a deterrent to the superpowers locking horns. I was so impressed by his presentation of these risks and their result that I have taken the view that God, Aliens, whatever, have kept the end of life on earth from happening. When you consider that only in the last 65 years of human existence(we think that modern man is the jewel of human civilization) that this has been possible, it is clear that this is aberration in history that must end. It will end, one way or another.

        1. The REAL nightmare would be NON-RETALIATION, after a 1st strike.
          Retaliation is not automatic. Clinton drew up plans to absorb a 1st strike & not retaliate.
          NWO matches in, if our Glorious Leaders plan to lay down.
          I’d plan for that scenario.

        2. Spot on – the “non-retaliation” possibility is far more likely than we think. Cyber attack would be part, actual coordinated t***orist destruction of critical facilities, and political/military assassinations just hours prior to the attack can be expected. Russia and China would coordinate the attack. The repositioning of Russian satellites would be a precursor – real-time battle damage assessment.

        3. “Clinton drew up plans to absorb a 1st strike & not retaliate.”

          Yea, that’s not true.

          Due to the fall of the Soviet Union the Clinton Administration changed the official stance on Nuclear Weapons from first use with the Soviet Union. Meaning we wouldn’t just use nuclear weapons immediately in a large scale war.

          ‘In this context, Bell explained that it is U.S. policy not to use nuclear weapons first against any state except in three cases. First, “if a state that we are engaged in conflict with is a nuclear-capable state, we do not necessarily intend to wait until that state uses nuclear weapons first—we reserve the right to use nuclear weapons first in a conflict whether its CW [chemical weapons], BW [biological weapons] or for that matter conventional [weapons],” he said. Under the second scenario, Bell said the United States reserves the right to use nuclear weapons first “if a state is not a state in good standing under the Non-Proliferation Treaty or an equivalent international convention.” Finally, he said if a state attacks the United States, its allies or its forces “in alliance” with a nuclear-capable state, then the United States reserves the right to use nuclear weapons first, even if that state is not a nuclear-capable state and is in good standing under the NPT. Because these three exceptions have existed for some time, Bell said “there is no policy change whatsoever in this PDD with respect to fundamental U.S. position on no first use of nuclear weapons.”‘

          You should bother to learn for yourself.

        4. Alan I’m happy to see you reference God or Aliens because there are, as you likely know, a number of accounts from military silo personnel of odd inexplicable events occurring during a missile launch exercise. I do believe there is an invisible hand that prevents an omnicron event.

        1. Just another liberal who can only make himself look better by laying his own stupidity upon someone else. In other words, a lying hypocritical liberal.

        2. Duke, All three branches, as military and not civilian or a contractor. Interesting. “The fallout will circle the planet and affect every single human.” Don’t think so. Most fallout falls out within a mile, some up to 30-50 miles downwind depending on lots of data points re the bomb components, the half lives of the fissile material, the explosion, the location of the explosion, the weather, and geographic features. Lighter particles that are picked up may make it into the stratosphere where they will stay. Maybe you should take your defeatist scaremongering and go home.

        1. Yes, they come in hear trying to learn reason, but their little liberal brain just can’t handle the truth.

        2. Until you learn to use the word “your” properly I wouldn’t be calling anyone an idiot if I were you.

        3. It’s getting close, Russia will retake Ukraine while China lies in wait.

        4. AMERICAN or is it American?

          It is amazing how so many come here to make a useless comment on something that was submitted 4ish years ago…
          One needs wonder whom is “your an IDIOT!!!!” HAHAHA
          I do need at agree with Squanto.
          Tis a good day to (fill in the blank)

        5. oof, “Oof!” is right. Responding to a comment more than two years old? Oof! Squint harder.

      4. No, a president alone just can’t push a button to launch the nuclear codes.

        1. Who says its gonna be the official nukes? Who says there isn’t already devices set. The Georgia stones are real. So is Bidens/Kamalas steps toward a great reset. Biden is responsible for millions of deaths in mideast, why wouldn’t they let say Russia or Chi detonate something to suppress a patriot uprising. After all depopulation is their goal

        2. Good lord…reading this as Russia opens up on Ukraine and China pining for Taiwan 😳😳

      5. Now four years later, a booming economy, lowest unemployment numbers in 50 years, and the most people off welfare, and all the scams and hoaxes from the anti-American left, the only one shooting off their mouth was the stupidity coming from yours. Wake up, Dembot.

      6. Granted the president isn’t compromised. I could see in the world today how a compromised person like Kamala could be apart of a plan B or C to a failed UN take over. Say if Covid lockdown fails, patriots rise up, UN/Chi military aid fails due to Canadian liberation/patriot actions.. EMP attacks fail, then onto plan B or C, detonating preplaced small nukes for such a situation, or simply all nukes from ships to make targets. Nation is ripe for a reset under whatever order they decided in the first place.
        Seems to be how its going. Biden is probably propped upd to be a fall guy or martyr for a false flag.

      7. wouldn’t they use what is necessary without being excessive – the more that are used, the more destruction that is caused to the earth, the atmosphere, water, (and the biosphere in general)…

        I realize this is an old post, but seems relevant given the current events :(

      8. You’re joking, right? The Don’t Say Gay Covid isn’t real Florida Gov and the Pillow Guy TV huckster conspiracy promoter? Maybe for a comedy series….

      9. With respect, Country girl has a complete misunderstanding of nuclear strategy. Suicide and complete is not in the interest of even the most sinister actors. The goal of a nuclear war is minimized damage to the “winning” side, and a negotiated surrender of the “losing” side. Carpet bombing the US or Russia would create more problems for the “winner”. The likeliest and best scenario would be a limited exchange. Both sides have set up their systems to rely on tiers of delivery systems so as to allow a deescalation before full exchange.

        Still bad. Still end of life as we know it. Call Covid a super mild dry run of what life would be like be after a limited nuclear exchange.

      10. CountryGirl,
        If what I read last night was accurate, assuming for the sake of this article it was unbiased real news, then the cyberattack possibility has been elevated. What I am hearing you say in your opinion if that occurs being outside of the country (being careful to choose a country that is not affiliated with any war) before it occurs is the best thing we could do for survival. I concur with you that if the worse happens the fallout would be greater and it appears from the assumptions and maps in this article the US would be dessimated. For those who have underground military grade bomb bunkers in this scenario the likelhood of long term survival is at best questionable considering the mass destruction of almost everything needed for survival. My knowledge is limited but I believe it would take a year to grow anything that is minimally contaminated. So if you are a bunker owner to increase your odds of survival stock a years worth of items necessary for survival. For the average person this type of expense will be difficult. This response is not intended to address other issues that may or may not be valid such as moral or religious beliefs.

        1. So to finish my reply above….if we believe that massive nuclear war is eminent then we should preferably leave the country now or build an underground bomb shelter with a years worth of all of the items needed for survival.

        1. Rocky=>How about you leave your opinion on politics out of a blog about survival. Your opinion is useless and unwanted. It’s also completely inflated into a non-reality take probably because you watch your daily dose of MSM. Reading your comment actually caused me to lose some brain cells due to how ridiculous your outlook on the world is. Save us and stop talking.

    2. Firstly, I am a father and my first concern is always that of my children. I am no different from a father in Russia or anywhere else. There could be nothing worse than countries with nuclear weapons being crazy enough to use them. Over the years and despite much chaos calmer heads have prevailed. The actual nuclear warhead count listed in previous comments are completely wrong. The Country of Russia does not have 12,000 nuclear weapons that can hit the United States. Russia has about 1400 warheads that can hit us via Ballistic missiles, however the number would get much lower due to failure rates, a few missile defense systems located in California and Alaska, targets in other countries, and the possiblity of early target strikes by the United States. There are are over seven hundred U.S. and Nato military bases that Russia has in their targets sites, many of which are not in the United States. The United States has about 1700 warheads that are currently ready for launch and our enemies are aware that many of them are on submarines. Despite all the rhetoric that continues by politiians a nuclear war is unlikely, but dont think for any reason that U.S. forces are not overly ready, they are. My grandfather, a high ranking officer worked for Strategic Command and actually created the first nuclear targeting maps for Russia, China, and other areas around the world. No one wants war and our leaders have thankfully been working hard to reduce these weapons of mass destruction. Thankfully since the eighties nuclear weapons have been reduced by over 80%. We can thank President Reagan and Gorbachev for believing that human lives are precious. So pray, believe, and work towards peace.

      1. That is a great entry. Your grandfather was involved in the first target maps? Fascinating. I share you attitude towards abolition, if I understand you correctly. Anyone who thinks otherwise lacks imagination. I had some questions. Did you grandfather ever tell you anything about nuclear war being survivable in north america (including Canada)? What political/lobby forces were/are in place to actually keep building nuclear weapons?

      2. Our enemy, clearly you’re indoctrinated, why is Russia/China an enemy, because they don’t hold to your corrupt ideals of what YOU consider to be right. All of the US and Europe would be destroyed, if not in the first instance then later by starvation. If the world is not totally contaminated by radiation fallout, then the survivors will be mainly the Third World, the Pacific, South America’s New Guinea Central Australia Africa ect ect. Fitting really that the corrupt should all die and leave the rest for a new start.

        1. @tonyp, Thanks for reminding all of us that our enemies have agents all around this nation who are part of the problem and we need to remember that not all the people living in this country are Americans in the true sense of the word. You are obviously one of the low information people that exists in every society that is equivalent to a human body having cancer cells present…always ready to corrupt and destroy if not watched for and dealt with before they can destroy the healthy cells around them. I feel sorry for you as I do to a child that thinks they are so smart at 12 but really is clueless about what is really important in life. You don’t know what you are talking about…but please keep spouting your venom so we NEVER FORGET that the enemy is always around looking for ways to destroy what they hate and will never understand…you are truly evil!

        2. I personally feel that misinformation isnt always the charector of spys or the unintelligent. That said, my personal experience and extra cirricular studies lead me to believe that a preemptive strike on the US isnt only possible, but very likely. First off, considering the state of the world economy and the Federal Reserve/US Dollar/petro dollar’s impact for gettingthe economy in such shape, destroying the US at an appropriate time might indeed be worthy of the risk to the right China/Russian leadership. Putin vrs Obama? And with a new Russia/China/Brazil (+others) in an alliance against the US, the timing couldnt get better. The US does the bidding of NATO. And NATO is as screwed up as the US. There is only 11 months left until elections and you can be certain NATO will get who they want as US president regardless of the vote even if Obama must declare martial law and run the US as a dictator for 5 more years( as per the Constitution). Its not a question of IF Russia and China launch…its when and indications are spring through fall 2016.

        3. Your comment is very insightful considering it was written nearly a year ago. Things seem to be getting very serious. I believe in the Word of God that it is truth and that the prophets of old were given by God things which should happen in the last days. Of course just as things become 20/20 from hind sight it is only when things are fulfilled that the truth of how it all fit so well together makes it clear what the writer was speaking of. With that said I have heard of the battle spoken of in the book of Daniel to be compared to the war between Russia and the U.S. It does seem like we are indeed pushing at Russia both by destabilizing the middle east and then seeking to oust the Syrian government. Now it seems we also played a major part in the Ukraine and the separation there as well. Such a grave war our government pushes for. God help us all, I just want to pray that our country can wake up out it’s sleep and let US return to God and he will heal our land. He can make a way where there seems to be no way.

        4. While the world is watching this election, to be sure- the winning candidate will be guided by sage advice in these matters. The same is true with Soviet and Indian interests. The danger is the rogue nation. And well-placed intelligence in these scattered lands will warn quickly of impending attacks or launches. This seems obvious, I realize, but with pivotal elections and changes of power we get REALLY nervous and plan for the ‘worst case’ scenario

        5. You didn’t respond to his question. Why are Russia and China our enemies? Neither called me a white supremacist terrorist threat, and began preparations to put me in a gulag. That would be my own government. Russia is a fading power; it has 1/3 the population of the EU and 4 _FOUR_ of the ~27 nations in the EU have a greater GDP. China is only powerful because our government subsidized it with our tax money and our jobs in exchange for bribes.

          Our only real enemy and the only real communists in the world are those in charge of Western nations.

        6. You only need shelter & food for a month after a 1st strike. Then you have to move out to avoid capture.

        7. Hey tonyp –
          Destress, the term enemy is being used because when the time comes, everyone lobbing nukes at you is the enemy. It’s no longer about politics, religion or personal hygiene, it’s about keeping you and yours safe…everyone shooting AT you is the enemy.

        8. I would think that the fact that they have their nuclear arsenals targeted at us would be reason enough to call them an enemy. not to mention the cyber attacks and threatening dialogue. or are those reasons too much to consider?

        9. We have our nukes targeted at them too. Our threatening dialogue predates theirs, as we’ve been threatening them with expansion of NATO since shortly after we promised Gorbachev we wouldn’t.

      3. for anyone interested. fact check: there are layers of water where our nuclear submarines cant be detected. good luck finding them mr. enemy

        1. true but the subs have to come up to firing depth to fire and thats when they become vulnerable to detection

        2. You forget that we have sub’s that make their own oxigen and could be working without refuelling for 20 years .goes to tell you do ure homework ,you have no idea what the united States of America has and its secret weapons. We are the most powerful country in the world. Not to mention we have satellites that could do combat for many months. No nukes will get tru. Star wars is the number 1 defense this country has.

        3. One thing a sub can’t make is it’s own food, so no matter how long people think that boat can stay down there, eventually they are going to need to eat.

        4. Did you not read 20000 leagues beneath the sea?They fish in deep and grow vegies in the hydroponics section

        5. in response to star wars —- consider the characteristics of chinas wu-14 comes in horizontally at a low plane after being dropped by a plane and uses scram/ram jet tech as a nuke payload delivery package – other than lasers and radar tracking – we have nothing to stop it it comes in at mach 8 . no missile iron dome -patriot missile battery can catch it or adjust to track it fast enough -so its a nuke bypass weapon .

        6. aannndd good luck finding them if your surface fleet is under fire.

      4. for anyone interested. fact check: thier are layers of water where our nuclear submarines cant be detected. good luck finding them mr. enemy. the us wins again. yup

      5. The true threat being the insane groups and countries willing to die to win. M.A.D no longer works give one of these groups or countries ie isis or iran a red button and our generation will see a mushroom cloud. The sad part is weve hear since 9/11 iran will have a bomb in 7 years well is been 15. A nuke is not all that complicated. When doing some research for a paper in the 8th grade i learnt alot about it. Any half way smart person could build one given the right nuclear material. While arguing this fact with my science teach in the 11th grade i drew him said diagram in five minutes. So give iran the u 235 and they have a bomb lets see 7 years to get there 8 years to produce figure enough for 5 a year iran has atleast 35 nuclear weapons to let lose anytime they choose. Henze why we made the deal. It was look we got em go f yourself or pay us not to give em away

      6. Thank you, i think thats what most of us on this site were looking for…information. not political opinions and debates.

      7. 1. A total of 33 launches, successful launches – 97,4% so not that big failure rate.
        2. Russian current strategic arsenal – 1,600 also 6500 stocked
        3.There are are over seven hundred U.S. and Nato military bases – You very underestimate Russians why would be Russia striking military bases of NATO wasting rockets – i can tell you for sure – that the main priority for strike will be USA industries and Population – because if USA will be completely destroyed with no chance to recover military bases will be invaded by the people of those countries where they are – think of Japan, Germany or Iraq, Syria or Saudi Arabia – remember those bases without USA is trash

      8. That’s the weapons we know about.
        The real deal is the Clinton plan to absorb a 1st strike.
        This does not destroy the USA. It destroys the Constitution…forever.
        They we retaliate with all our secret super weapons to dominate the world.
        I’m sure China & Russia have them also.
        Whomever has the bigger one wins.

      9. Well said, Mrblue.

        I would add that Putin would have no remorse to launch if he is cornered. The Russian and Chinese attitudes towards using nukes is that they are a tool of last resort, but a tool they plan to use nevertheless. The USA treats them more like a “I’d rather die first” type of “so far past last resort” tool.

        I know your post was 10 years ago, and a lot has changed since then. I didn’t possess iodine pills 10 years ago. I bought them 2 years ago.

        I am putting all out nuclear exchange at 25% today. I hope it resolves, but there seems no way to extricate ourselves now, and our politicians seem dead set on doing the full monty.

    3. Here is the NEW problem, Russia’s EMP . The effect has profound military potential. An EMP attack could be used to cripple enemy nuclear weapons, missiles, bombers and even submarines (if they have deployed an antennae buoy). EMP destroys communications equipment, satellites, transformers, computers and the electric grid itself.
      This would allow Russia and its Allies to then use a vast array of weapon to annihilate every City in The United States of America.

      1. You are right about the EMP’s taking out everything electronic, but there are ways to shield some things. I don’t know if the government is prepared, though.

      2. With a nominal nuke detonation over Kansas at an altitude of 225 miles, the US power grid is toast…and so are we.

        90% dead in first year. A US govt projection, not mine,

        Scenario: Stage 1: A cargo ship off each coast and in the Gulf of Mexico “In International Waters” each launch a missile destined for the geographic center of the US. Only one has to reach it’s target of 225 miles.

        Stage 2: The suicide igmos then scuttle the ships in deep water, killing all aboard, along with all evidence.

        Against whom do we retaliate?

        Now, why would the attacker want to destroy the world when the US is back to the 17th century?

        Perhaps this is why the US Eagle is not mentioned in Revelations…

        No one wants to destroy the world…just the Super Power that is the USA.

        1. @Mustang- while an attack by Scud from a ship is probably likely, none of them (Scuds) are presently thought to have anywhere near the range needed to get a warhead to 225 miles over Kansas, if launched from a ship at sea. Would have to be on a barge on the Mississippi, up near I70, or in the lake at Chicago, and would have to be one of the latest N.Korean models to get the combination of range and altitude.

        2. You do realize the emp stuff is mainly bs right. We have known about them since the first test all military tech is protected air force one is one big ferraday cage forgive my spelling. Power grid nuke plants and cars put off their on electro radiation thus built to withstand them. This stuff of we only now know is bull

        3. Sad, but very true words!! One of the few comments that I’ve read that someone actually has their eyes wide open!!

        4. The US is mentioned in Rev. Chapter 18, that’s us. Also Jeremiah 50 and 51.

        5. Possibly, but as I have said in a couple of other replies, we have an extremely well armed citizen militia. Invaders would need to consider that.
          I don’t understand why so many Americans seem to feel so vulnerable, we have and will always be capable of defending ourselves beyond the need of a government ran and controlled military.
          Thank your Founding Fathers.

        6. Because generations of children have been taught that we’re the bully of the world, that everyone is out to get us and that we can’t defend ourselves. “Only the gov’t can defend us.”

          Obviously we’re from the gov’t and we’re here to help.

    4. scorched earth! What good is the land if it can’t be inhabited for decades but alas they maybe could care less as they may be ready to just kick off the next mass extinction. DARPA has invested millions of dollars on technology to print implantable Synthetic DNA. The European nations have built the worlds largest partical excelerator that is a 17 mile electromagnet that affects the earths own magnetic fields. At some point in the near or not to distant future fully a third of all mankind will die. Could it be through a full blown nuclear exchange or a pandemic of some kind I don’t know but I know something is about happen. I’m in Florida and based on your maps I’m screwed anyway. We may enter our shelters only to emerge into a world in the grip of the new world order with only the semblance of civilization being within camps. Food, healthcare, security through our generous world leaders. I don’t see scorched earth benefiting anybody.

      1. Such foresight! We’re in a PANDEMIC right now & the world is on lockdown & we have to wear masks.
        Social unrest. Everything except essential business closed & enforced.
        No jobs, no money, state HHR & Food Banks stretched to the limit, limited supplies, our movements restricted.
        Isolation from others.
        This is the SoftKill, getting is conditioned & ready for the Nuclear HardKill to destroy the foundations of the USA.
        Police State. Riots. Protests.

    5. EMPs are not a cyber attack. Its a Electro-Magnetic Pulse weapon. Its a bomb or missile that detonates in the air that disables anything electronic or electrical. Batteries in your flashlight or car wont work. Theres no electricity for communications, refrigerators or hospitals. Has nothing to do with cyber attacks.

      1. It’s been proven that battery operated things will work after an EMP. It’s AC powered things that will be fried. Keep away from long antennas or long expanses of metal as they act as conducters. This conduction over distance is what fries electronics. Most cars may not even be affected as they are rolling Faraday cages with insulated tires.

        1. Ken your dead right. My dad raised me to hope for the best prepare for the worst

    6. Really, ?????? 90% of 19000 nuclear detonations on US soil?? I doubt the Russians could survive the climate disaster that would cause. No food for years. 10? 20? A few Moorlocks might survive. That’s it.

    7. If a country were to attack they wouldn’t want to destroy the whole us they would inflict the least amount of damage as they could just enough for ground forces to take control they need are land and resources y create a dead zone if u don’t have to

    8. The reason a country would not use 90% in part relates to what 90% means. No doubt, if you obliterate the US with nukes, the fallout is going world wide plain and simple. The more nukes detonated here, the more fallout around the world..

    9. The reason the Russians won’t just “nuke everything” is that the point of a war is to win, something. If your enemy’s lands are utterly destroyed (along with your own), then there is no winner.

      A far more likely scenario is a series of small, proportional nuclear exchanges, which leaves room for strategy and brinkmanship, and the possibility of capitulation.

    10. Hi CountryGirl,

      Thank you for your post. I have seen replies, and comments on other sites to the point that the “southern” countries in the northern hemisphere, and the southern hemisphere would survive a massive nuclear exchange between the U.S. and Russia. Growing up, and serving in the Navy at the end of the Cold War, one of the favorite books to read was On the Beach. The post-apocalyptic novel written in 1957 is about the people in Melbourne Australia waiting for the prevailing winds that circle the globe to bring the radiation down to them from the war one year previously. It was a dreary novel, but highlighted the fact that in that scenario everyone dies eventually…

    11. CountryGirl –
      You mean like Putin kindly offering to come oversee the election process here in the states and being all buddy buddy with one of the candidates?
      The probes of our nation and our widely broadcast insufficiency with regard to security have already given them tons of data to chew on and I think that Russia, China and some of our other world neighbors might just decide that the time has come to say “Fairs fair” as the song goes…
      Our nation has beat its military chest across the globe for decades and expected everyone to cow-tow to us; but, the truth is… everyone is done with our braggadocios bravado.
      Weak leadership, weak citizenry and an overstretched military have set us up for an abrupt demise.

      1. Wow, sad, sad place here. I read somewhere about a prepper who spent something like $350,000 to try to insure that he and his family would make it through one sort of holocaust or another. Really? Folks, spend your money however you like, but wouldn’t it be more fun to spend some of those doomsday dollars on a trip to a warm, sunny place or whereever it is that represents paradise for you? After all, we are all mortal, we will die at some point bomb shelters notwithstanding. Why not have some joy? You cannot possibly stop all of the possible things that crazy people in positions on power might do. You also cannot realistically stave off every possible threat that the world has to offer. I mean look at the dinosaurs. They were totally on top of their world and then “boom” a friggin’ rock comes out of nowhere and bye bye Dino. Point is, life is fragile but we all have the capacity for joy while we’re here, so… buy a ticket, travel, see the world. You might like what you see. It’s OK, you don’t have to spend all your money on a pile of dried cornflakes and .22 ammo. Cheers

    12. I think we should talk.
      Message me before the election
      Shits about to hit the fan and your a very valuable asset stay safe and godspeed lord knows we’ll need it

    13. No idea who runs the site but thanks for the info very good stuff on here. Appreciate the efforts. Voted up!

    14. Well they don’t have all 12,000 nukes ready to go all the time, about 80% of them are in storage/stockpile, on airfields etc….

    15. ” The worst thing any super power could do is signal their intent. Their one best hope is that they could destroy the enemy in a 90 minute salvo of missiles and bombs with very little retalliation. ”

      That’s impossible with sub-launched missiles, while silos are placed as far as possible away from coastlines for this reason, i.e. the silos are always prepared to fire before sub-launched nukes could reach the silos.
      In fact I would wager that the silos are just decoys– and I can say that since I’m a civilian.

    16. Well, if you fly to Patagonia before the bombs start to fall you’ll be fine!

    17. unfortunately, it wouldnt matter if they used 100% of their nukes. We have an auto launch system that retaliates as soon as it doesnt get its ‘every thing is okay’ update. Which only happens when their are people in positions of government that have authority to make nuclear strike decisions. This is of course insane because there are many technical reasons why we might not be able to send that message if we did get attacked…but its all part of the MAD mindset…

    18. While the Russians have a huge number of total warheads, most are not mounted on deliverable weapons, and they would have to hit targets all over europe and N.America, not just the US.

      Even still, an all out nuclear war would probably see somewhere around 70-80% of the US population KIA within six months.

    19. USAmerican subs wait off of the arctic coasts of Russia and Western Pacific Ocean off China to retaliate and likewise turn their cities to ash.

    20. Well said CountryGirl, after years and years of deliberating this scenario, preparing for everything and having the knowledge, friends and means for survival, the best choice would be to either be a first strike casualty or to be out in the ocean away from shipping channels. Good Luck.

    21. It is funny that you try to single out Russia and China as wanting to nuke non military targets. That makes your whole comment ridiculous and scream ignorance.

      The U.S. is the only one to ever use nuclear weapons. They used them for no good reason on a non nuclear state and on civilian targets.

      1. Stopping WWII saved millions of lives(mostly Japanese). IMHO you need to study history, not totalitarian socialists’ propaganda.

    22. Most of the US cities are cesspools and don’t make anything anymore. Russians and Z Chinese would be smarter to hit the rural areas where the more patriotic and familiar with guns and many veterans are. The urban masses will fall into brigandage and savagery like after Hurricane Katrina, if not cannibalism. DC and NYC will be hit for the symbolism.

      1. Nah aside from the obvious military targets and major metropolises, the other major target will be the entire grain belt, where they’d use ground bursts to decimate the soil thus ensuring whatever population that’s left loses the ability to feed itself.

    23. Nuclear is only part of the “triad”. Think “NBC”- Nuclear, Biological, Chemical.. My Dad was what most call a “scientist”- worked for the gummint during the ’50’s and ’60’s, at often undisclosed locations. He was the kind of guy that certain “agencies” would consult if it was felt his input was needed, after retirement. During the last years of his life he shared a few things (not much, really, never details due to security oaths etc) about what was available in case of an all-out war… bio and chemical weapons, forget the nukes- he suffered from deep guilt over the work he had done, to the point of going to world “holy sites” to pray for forgiveness. One I remember was St Catherine’s in the Sinai to climb steps on his knees! Anyway, his major concern was not nuclear, but that all the pathogens and chemicals that would be released would not only wipe out humanity, but most life on Earth altogether, including plankton and other mini-lifeforms…
      What kind of craziness does it take to come up with this crap??? I mean in ALL countries, not just ours- comes down to MAD and the human MADness it is to bring this down on the Earth.
      “Come Lord Jesus, Come Quickly!”

    24. Although there would be a lot more targets in the U.S. one thing to consider is, does Russia and China want any assets(food, water, medical supplies, and more) from the U.S. so they can continue there way of life which contrary to events of the past 30 years the secret Russian govt. still wants a communist way of life, as does China. Even though Russia has stockpiles of the necessities as does the U.S., China, and a few other countries eventually they would need more that aren’t irradiated depending on how many of there people survive. The question is would Russia and China launch as many nukes as they can to completely destroy the U.S.? It depends. According to the latest research it would only take 100 nukes of current technology to completely destroy the surface of the Earth. I have my doubts if a Nuke war did happen there would be less than 100 exploded. I think that at least 3 countries have a base on the moon and possibly even Mars. The U.S., China, Russia. If there was a nuclear war and the surface of the earth was completely destroyed that would be the only way to assure the continuation of human life unaffected by the horrors of nuclear war. Even in a deep underground facility where people could survive would they be able to stay there for years?

    25. @CountryGirl

      You’re basing your argument on the assumption that Russia (or anyone) has the ability to fire every single nuke in their stockpile at the exact same moment. Or that they’d have the ability to fire every single nuke “under the radar” without any opportunity for retaliatory strikes. That is beyond absurd. Our SBIRS is capable of detecting missile launches in REAL TIME, calculating and updating trajectories and possible impact points throughout every stage of launch and flight. You’d think someone who claims to have worked at the pentagon would know this…

      Between our submarine assets, fixed-land assets, and aerial assets (which fly 24-hour patrols near areas of concern,) a significant portion of Russia’s launch capabilities would be crippled by retaliatory strikes. Couple that with our defense systems and only a relatively small number of those 12k nukes are actually hitting their intended targets. Would it still be enough to turn our country into a nuclear desert? Of course. But the lasting collateral effects aren’t nearly as severe as you’re trying to imply here.

    26. Why would Russia NOT use most of their nuclear arsenal in an attack on the USA? Perhaps, because they would leave their defenses depleted and be more vulnerable to an attack from another country? Might China seek to reclaim previously disputed lands on their border or see that as an opportunity for expansion, for instance?

      Besides, once our high priority military and government bases were destroyed, Russia would have no need to waste weapons on major cities. Urban areas would self-destruct with the ensuing chaos and lawlessness. Heck, that’s already happening in slow motion in many places here. A nuclear attack would probably just speed up the decline.

  2. There is another consideration that no one here, or for the most part, anywhere, has thought about or even knows about. For some of us old timers, we remember “The Philadelphia Experiment” conducted by Albert Einstein and the US Navy on a destroyer escort vessel decades ago. If you think an all out nuclear war option is strictly up to the discretion of the earthly beings as we know them, you’re sadly mistaken.

    1. Would you kindly expand on that comment concerning The Philadelphia Experiment & “other beings”? I have read of the experiment, but don’t recall ” other beings” connection.

    2. Einstein and the faux Philadelphia Experiment? Um, NO, he NOR anyone else was involved in that fairy tale!


  3. I still think the chances of a full out exchange is extremely small. However; the chance of a singe or multiple detonation of small yeild devices is very likely. Even more likely is the use of a high altitude low yeild EMP causing burst. This would result in a return to 19th century technology for quite some time.

  4. Here is the problem with any exchange of nuclear devices, including EMP devices; it is an attack using nukes. It changes everything. It probably doesn’t matter if it is Iran nuking Israel or Pakistan nuking India. Once that can of worms is opened everything will change. I would estimate that the chance of a nuclear weapon being used agains the U.S. today is 100:1 or so. The day after Iran nukes Israel I would say those odds go to 1:1. There are 100 reasons for this and some may be more convincing then others but it is unarguable that once a nuke is used anywhere in the world everywhere becomes a target.

    Second point is that the plan every super power has to retalliate against a nuclear attack is a massive nuclear reaction. So while a terrorist might use a single nuke against a major city now nuclear power would and that includes EMP’s No nuclear power is going to set off an EMP over NY City because they know we would set off 2000 nukes in their cities. And no terrorist nation/group has the ability to use an EMP device. So while a small conventional nuke that was bought from post collapse Russia or from North Koreas or stolen from Pakistan or built by Iran “could” someday be used in the CONUS the chances of an EMP are slim to none.

    1. “I would estimate that the chance of a nuclear weapon being used agains the U.S. today is 100:1 or so. ”

      I wouldn’t, because the chances of nuclear retaliation would be 100% or so, which would reduce it by 99%. So it’s more like 0.01%, which is still unacceptable.

  5. Any nuclear explosion has the capability to create an EMP effect but they tend to be weak unless the device is specifically designed to maximize the EMP. This is to difficult for just any nuclear power to create. It is so unlikely that a terrorist could even get an EMP device that it just isn’t a serious risk. A “small” EMP would be like slapping a cage fighter. It is a really stupid idea because it wouldn’t cause much damage but it would really piss him off.

    The scenario where a nuclear attack is launched from a cargo ship or any commercial type vessel just offshore is a very serious and scary threat in terms of gross damage and civilian deaths. Not very effective to disable our ability to retalliate though.

    1. I disagree. A strong EMP is rather trivial to achieve for a nation with a credible nuclear deterrent.

      For a strong EMP, sufficient to cause wide scale destruction on the electrical grid, it is only necessary to detonate a large fission weapon at high altitude.

      High altitude means an ICBM, but any credible nuclear deterrent involves ICBMs so this is not some special hindrance.

      Fissile material is needed in all nuclear weapons whether unboosted, boosted, straight thermonuclear or thermonuclear with a fissionable jacket (most of the yield in thermonuclear weapons is fission of depleted or natural U by 14 MeV fusion neutrons, which is why most thermonuclear weapons have rather a lot of fallout with few exceptions; e.g. tsar bomba which had only 3% fission yield). Getting fissile material is no special hindrance for a country with a credible nuclear deterrent.

      Thermonuclear weapons are inefficient for EMP as the detonation of the primary causes pre-ionization which reduces the efficiency of the thermonuclear stage in creating EMP.

      Large fission weapons are no more difficult to make than small fission weapons; the extra fissile material is expensive and the device is not particularly safe but these are trivial hindrances. E.g. the 500 kT mark 18 contained 60 kg HEU (about as much as little boy) and was not one-point-safe. If dropped by accident during handling, this could have initiated one of the explosive lenses; as the weapon is not one-point-safe this would have caused a fission yield on the order of a few kT. To combat this they stuck an aluminium-boron alloy chain inside the pit, which was only removed as one of the last stages of arming.

      To get that kind of efficiency as the mark 18, boosting is necessary; but if you can do thermonuclear weapons, a tritium-boosted primary is also trivial.

      You could get fancy and try to optimize the gamma-ray transparency to eek out some more gamma yield, which is what causes the EMP; but it is by no means necessary. If you can use a better trigger, such as the flying-plate two-point-initiated design, you don’t need thick explosive lenses, only a thin plate surrounded by high explosives that deforms into a sphere over an air-gap and impacts the explosive which compresses the fissile material. If you use a thinner or less dense tamper such as aluminium or beryllium, you lose some fission efficiency, but you let more gamma rays out; that trade-off can be played with and optimized to create the worst EMP for a given amount of fissile material. None of these things would be mass produced anyway, so just adding some more HEU may be easier than making slightly more efficient use of less HEU.

      1. Was that detailed description really necessary? I mean, come on-

        1. I think the description was quite informative and proves experience in these matters…Don’t hate because you fail to create (understand) Thanks Soylent ;)

      2. Perhaps a reduction of the fogbank aerogel interstaging layer would reduce blast as well.

        1. Say about Frogger? I personally like Pacman.

    2. CG-
      Another alternative to the EMP question becomes one of terrorism against the grid.
      So far, the men with the evil intent have tried to amass a body count, but, if they turn their attention to true terror in the terms that modern day ‘Merica can understand, take away our MTV…(Sorry, I know I am dating myself here).
      By unplugging our TV/iPhone/Video game couch potato culture, i.e. taking out our national grid, they could through us back into the stone age (albeit temporarily) and set themselves up for some REAL fun.

      1. If they were after death toll rather than terror they probably would, but if there’s no grid there’s no media, which means no one knows who did it to them or why so they can’t crow their new status, or rely on the media to broadcast their success.

        The death toll is just a tool.

    3. As a physicist, I think that EMP is overrated for mobile devices- especially vechicles, rather than power-grids and microchip/radio based devices like phones and laptops near the blast; while this doesn’t negate them, it certainly does overestimate the predicted impact of knocking out generators, vehicles, powerlines and other non-fragile electric and non-electric systems, which would be simple to repair once the fragile parts were bypassed.

  6. I live in NH. If a nuclear war broke out, i would flee to northern Maine, as it is according to the map a safe place, the safest haven to my state. I’m surprised that NH wouldn’t be safe, though.. There isn’t anything worth nuking here.

    1. I have a hard time seeing that area escape fallout from Montreal, Ontario and possibly Halifax.

  7. Thanks for the info. I would like to respectively add a few comments. The big yellow area in central Idaho indicating the best place to live, unfortunately is roughly the boundaries of the 2.3 million acre River of No Return Wilderness Area. I used to outfit in there. There are no roads, so you can only get there by foot or horseback. Okay for me and other horse folks, but not too handy for the general public. Besides, without a special use permit, the Payette National Forest Ranger would be breathing down your neck after the two week limit of camping in one spot.

    Secondly, no one seems concerned about the INEEL in the desert east of Idaho Falls, it stands for Idaho Engineering and Energy Laboratory. It houses a whole lot of nuclear testing stuff and other secret stuff for the government. I find it hard to believe the a cutting edge place like that is less of a target than a 60 year old missile silo. I personally feel that the whole state of North Dakota is a target – there are hundreds of actively manned silos up there. Just try to stop and visit them – an Air Force guard will greet you very promptly. That’s all – thanks for all the helpful info.

    1. I think a ranger would be the least of your concerns in a situation where you’re hiding from nuclear fallout

  8. One thing I have yet to see in any of these fallout maps is one that accounts for drift out of Asia and Eastern Russia. Chinese dust has been demonstrated to accelerate the melting of the Colorado snow pack, and if the U.S. is throwing a few (or scores) of nukes over there, then that dust will be highly radioactive, and headed for the Western U.S.

  9. Jericho’s ratings were actually good the producers thought otherwise, they were just going to end the series halfway through the second season, this caused huge protests and boycotts by fans. the producers finally agreed to finish the second season but the ending left us even more confused. Due to the post -apocolyptic popularity in recent years they have actually considered bringing jericho back, it is one of the most popular tv showes streamed on netflix.

  10. The map can and will change completely if the US adopts a first strike policy decision. Since it’s just malarkey to tell the public that they have defensive missiles capable of destroying any incoming ICBM’s already en route. The odds of striking one of them is the same as two gun men firing their pistols at the same time and the two bullets hitting each other at the mid point. The US best hope is to strike the enemies missiles while they are still in their launch points. They have to hit them before they can launch any of them. That is our only hope to minimize the incoming attack and to survive a nuclear war. You can only hope to destroy enemy missiles while they are at rest, because once they reach altitude and supersonic speeds you can forget about it. And many of their missiles have their own defensive capabilities besides. With a barrage many are going to get through. They must be dealt with when they are at their weakest points on the ground.

    1. “it’s just malarkey to tell the public that they have defensive missiles capable of destroying any incoming ICBM’s already en route.”

      Well it would be unwise, given that they’re banned by the ABM treaty.

  11. I recall (working in a small hospital N of GT Falls, Mt) finding a evacuation map in case of Nuclear exchange from our location. Simply anyone was to head NW from our spot in a general direction of Glacier National park. Where we lived in this small town we had on MM-3 south of town 3mi just off I-20 and another east of town 5mi just on north edge of Hwy 2.

    The launch / command center for these and 8 other MM-3s was just out of Conrad Mt.

  12. Having received some training in USAF near end of Cold War (NBC) I have a dismal view of nuclear war survival. Don’t get me wrong, I want to live, even in a nightmare world it’s better than being at room temperature. I have seen several posts by folks who claim to be insiders of some sort. I was just NCO in TAC.

    Most of the time the casualty figures from our simulations and war games were appalling. I died numerous times from NBC during games in which we were sprayed with UV dye while in our NBC ensembles. They always blamed us for our deaths, of course, but my opinion was that the gear was pretty crappy. Most facilities were not nearly usable for fallout protection. I developed a bit of a fatalistic view of nuclear/biological war. I breathed a sigh of relief when the Berlin wall came down and they backed the nuclear clock a little further from midnight. I did not think that the U.S. could survive a nuclear war as a nation then, and I don’t think so now.

    So much said, we as a species are killers. Every day something has to die for us to live. War is a natural state within nature, and also with us. I do think nuclear/biological weapons will be used sooner or later on a large scale. Sorry, peaceniks, but the atom/Bio cat is out of the bag. I may sound like a warmonger, but I’m not. I just understand that those toys took a lot of treasure to build, and you just don’t waste those Roman candles you bought. I also encountered enough brass types that I thought were looking forward to WW3 that I have a hard time believing in just 25 years they have begun to reprogram them ( the brass, not the nukes).

    Folks who want to prep, go ahead. I think its a good idea. Peaceniks, I like you guys, you’re fun, though nothing in the animal kingdom that I watch gives me much hope for world peace breaking out soon. I have not changed my viewpoint on nuclear war survivability in all these years, it didn’t look good from my viewpoint then, and it don’t look good now. Really, such events are so far beyond the control of normal citizens that I’m always a little surprised when I see posts where folks think they can actually do much about any of it. For the folks speculating on how this or that bomb may be deployed, relax, we’ll cross that bridge when we get there.

    1. If there is a nuclear exchange i dont really think i want to be around to suffer through the results,

      Have been accused of not being a true survivalist because of this view, but a life where everything is contaminated and for who knows how long let alone the disease and hardship that will come with all of that doesnt sound like something i want a part of, so i hope it lands directly in my head!

    2. I’ll bring my lawn cHair and we can drink some rum and cokes and do drunk boxing while the world screws itself.

  13. I spent 20 plus years in army air defence working with the Nike-Ajax and then the Nike-Hercules.The Nike-Hercules was Nuclear capable.

    We were beginning to transition to the Sprint and Spartan ABM system when our training was halted because of the SALT 1 treaty.We know from tests that a ICBM can be intercepted long before it reaches its target.most of the people in uniform i know could never understand the reasoning that kept us from deploying.

    1. That must have been an awesome program. Those questions are my questions,.. why didn’t they ever fully deploy….funding perhaps ??? Or would the system upset the balance of power, was the ABM treaty in negotiation at the time ??? Look at our ABM system now. Russia is saying it upsets the strategic balance. Lets face it if the USA can knock out Russia’s missiles in Europe, the USA has the advantage. I think the best ABM system will be a space based system. Who knows maybe they have it in orbit now.

  14. Yes, I read about the 4 truckloads without paperwork being sent to South Carolina. THAT is a serious “flag event” setup by OUR present administration. Detonation “could” be blamed on conservative citizens , not the govt operatives who stole them !

  15. Isn’t it very easy for any nuclear power to smuggle an atom bomb into a freight plane and detonate it over an enemy city and leave the enemy on a total wrong track where the atom bomb has come from?

    Isn’t the major problem (after 911) that whenever a nuclear explosion occurs, afterwards you hardly can verify whether what the media says it came from is really true?

    Imagine there is an H2 bomb exploding over London City and nobody knows from where it came.

    1. Not entirely correct. In nuclear weapons you have a a primary and a secondary. The primary being plutonium and the secondary being some some hydrogen isotope usually lithium-6 deuteride. When the weapon explodes the nuclear weapon fragments that remain and the radio-isotopes, from these they can pinpoint the specific origin of the plutonium, location reactor….etc. So its not as hard as it might seem.

      1. I don’t agree with the assertion that plutonium can be traced back to its place of creation. Plutonium-239 is plutonium-239 (the isotope used in bombs), and cannot be tagged or traced in the way explosive residues are by bomb squads. Nor indeed can Lithium deuteride*: LiD2 is LiD2. It’s like saying you can take a glass bottle and identify the beach or sandpit where the silica was mined. There are no watermarks, no identifying microchips or tags, to differentiate plutonium produced at Hanford from that produced, say, in Russia
        * Lithium has two isotopes, Li-6 and Li-7. The 6 isotope is preferable, so often it is enriched in much the same ways as uranium is enriched in U-235 (only 0.7% of naturally occurring uranium, the net almost all U-238 [and a hint of U-234])

        As to who the “enemy” is, well, it depends on who wishes us (the US) ill. No one group, not to mention nation, is always and forever inimical to us. But the way the Obama administration has been going out of its way to irritate and anger Russia, I wonder how much good–or ill–will their leaders feel towards us. I think we know what Iran feels. And despite its leaders claiming friendship, Pakistan. So I feel things are in a more unstable and parlous state than they have been in the last 35 years.

      2. You are totally correct ,if any nukes are used on USA soil or anywhere in the world they know exactly where it came from. but like I said before if a nuclear war does happen don’t bother looking for a safe place to be ,you know why ? because nothing will survive ,maybe the cockroaches will they tend to be immune to anything lmfao.

  16. They might have one that they have not tested, as it takes a real test-fire to verify that it works

    Wasn’t that tried on the cruise ship and it worked?? The ship ‘Reagan’ carried them food.

  17. We enjoy our 1st amendment rights(while we still have them), in some instances restraint may be the prudent path. Remember ” loose lips sink ships”. Just a thought.

  18. Some of the strikes listed on these maps have probably been changed due to the fact that these maps are older , some of the military bases targeted are no longer open . As for areas in the Midwest , a lot of the silos have been decommissioned . But if there is an all out nuclear war such as these maps indicate as to what could happen , there are some difference of opinions about how the fallout will travel across the US due to the weather patterns in certain times of the year , I live in Mississippi , during the winter our weather comes out of the northwest , during spring it can change between the south and NW , summer it comes from the south then in fall it is just like spring from the south and NW . Where I am located we have Jackson to the NW , Merian to the NE , one not on the listing is Camp Shelby by Hattiesburg that is now a major training center for troops heading to the dessert countries , then farther south is Kessler Air Force base in Biloxi . One major problem to me though is Port Gibson which is on the Mississippi River home to a nuclear reactor , which will be targeted too as will all nuclear reactors , this just helps in the destruction which will be amplified with more radiation along with destroying more infrastructure . Myself I do not have qualms about saying that yes we will have a nuclear war in the future just when is the question , but it does look like it will be sooner that later as the politicians push more in the international arena . Be prepared and ready . Keep your powder dry .

    1. @Andy, You are very correct regarding the prevailing wind direction – and how it may differ depending on season or even short-term weather pattern changes.

      One of my hobbies is weather observation, and IF something like this were to ever happen, I would immediately know my own local situation with regards to risk from current prevailing winds upstream. Being aware is the first step to being prepared. Sounds like you’re there… Thanks for the comment.

      Oh, and I concur that it’s only a matter of time before these weapons will be put to use. God, I hope not, but will cool heads always prevail?

    2. Andy great comments, my observation would be the ‘unknown factor’ of the changes in wind patterns due to Nuclear explosions these safe projected places may end up being the dead zone. Regardless, the nuclear power plants would be an additional killing weapon and the 2 together would make any thought of travel to a sake remote Eastern Location a pipe dream, and probably not much better for the Western U.S. either. I worked for the Fed, have been inside NORAD and “other underground Govt shelters” (that were black program initiatives and do not exist)We all need to understand the Govt has been and will continue to be the largest prepper group in the world, while at the same time telling you “You should not be” Enough said

    1. I’m certain there is no Intel here That opposing forces don’t know.

  19. I was going to ask if there were a Canadian target map-but I see I will be in the most of fallout from the US-so it really doesn’t matter much!

    1. At least my basement makes for an excellent fallout shelter!

      1. A basement is not a good fallout shelter. If you want a good fallout shelter, you will need to build one, maybe off your basement. If you are near BC, Quebec or Ontario, you really need to dig in as they are close to hot US target zones like the Bremerton ship yards. And you need to stock it, make sure you have a filtered air supply, you have a source of uninterrupted power, you have considered sanitation and waste, and most of all, comfort. A lot of people use LRP’s but you will need water for that, so another consideration. Also, you will need to know how hot it is out there. You can find a RAD meter online. Thinking you might be in there for a week if there is a large scale nuclear war is very optimistic. Count on a couple of months.

        Just for laughs, start one calender month and note what you use for food, water, toiletries, etc and mark it down on a piece of paper. At the end of 2 months, see what that equals and that is what you should have at the very least in your shelter. It is probably more than you expected. It is like planning for an earthquake. You have to take the worse case scenario and use that as your rule of thumb for surviving a nuclear attack/fallout.

        1. I agree on food preps & shelter, but you only need it for a month to avoid the fallout. After that you have to be on the move to avoid capture.

      2. Or maybe ure final resting place .wake up if a nuclear war happens just make peace with your maker .iam reading all this comments and all this so called smart people, but let’s keep it real if this ever happens and I hope it doesn’t we are all going to die .stop being ignorant people there’s no technology that will save us from this nuclear war no one its going to win .it’s just what it is .every one will die .they might be a few survivors but sooner or later they will also die. the planet will die and so are we .the sky will be dark for years all plant life animals germs will die .just pray this never happens just make peace with your maker.

  20. I don’t think nukes are in the future. I always thought a EMP was something to prepare for but after looking at the recent news. Why would any enemy of the US use any kind of nuke on us. That would pollute our soil and lots of the world. Plus get alot of other nations angry.

    All they have to do is just wait and watch the USD collapse along with our economy and then they can do whatever they want. Invade, wait till we exterminate each other etc.
    Ocrappo has set us up for the biggest failure.

    Be well and stay the course.

    1. I lived in the Ivory Coast for 3 years in the 90’s…if moving to Africa is the only option…well I hope the missile hits me right in the nose!

  21. I am going to pretend that I am a loony tunes character who wants the U.S. destroyed. But I don’t want to lose all the natural and man made assets that the U.S. has. My best bet would be to launch an EMP attack so our electrical grid collapses. Then I wait until we finish killing off most of us and then I come in with troops to “save” the U.S. My humanitarian help would be applauded by other nations and suspicion that I was the dastardly villain who attacked the U.S. would be nonexistent. I wouldn’t want to even remotely get into a shooting match with nukes with the U.S. as we could turn any country into glass.

    The attack would be fairly easy from an offshore container ship. We could scuttle it as soon as we launched the attack. Never know who launched the attack. The people doing this would martyr themselves without fail to take down the “Great Satan”.

      1. …one of the best survival-preparedness related novels ever written.

    1. Like I mentioned in another post EMP. EMP is not a separate weapon from a nuclear weapon. They are one and the same. To generate large scale EMP you need to detonate a large yield thermonuclear weapon high in the air at about 250 miles up.

    2. I agree on food preps & shelter, but you only need it for a month to avoid the fallout. After that you have to be on the move to avoid capture.

  22. With a porous border, who needs ICBM’s to attack the US. They can just walk them across and set them up wherever they want, limited to small yield devices, but can set them next door to the target. Even better use shipping containers and shell companies. Just deliver the containers anywhere you want, have a timer set them all off at the same time of your choosing. Again, next door to your target. As for good targets, there are so many. But to shut down the country for years, spread radiation over the largest area possible, take out the infrastructure, bridges and dams, take out the military response, by setting them off next door to installations. don’t even have to have missiles to do as I have outlined above and it is far cheaper and simple to perform a first strike. Without a few dams in the southwest, it will return to a complete desert, destruction of that farmland will starve much of the country. But I don’t expect anything from Russia, they already see us as a receding nation, socially and economically, and they have patience to watch us destroy ourselves trying to take over the rest of the world and they are now stepping in to prove our weakness. My worry is that we have neocons who are running the military and they might start something to save their “slavery system” of petro dollars and banking(money creation) with interest.

    1. So the left wing will save us correct? All of em are the same,wise the hell up and stop spouting that BS!!! You think just how they want you to it seems,their is no left or right anymore ! all that is a Game!!!

    2. pissedman, I agree. However, I felt safer during the height of the cold war than I do now. The times we live in now are much more dangerous compared to the cold war. Ironically, the Soviet Union and the United States were poised for immediate nuclear war with each other. The same safety concepts and systems that saved us from nuclear war during the cold war no longer exist today. Even MAD mutually assured destruction is not the same now. They are relying on deterrence and counter-deterrence. And these nuclear concepts aren’t even the problem. Ever since the NEO-CONS started to rise to power in the Clinton presidency things have been going downhill ever since. The neo-cons truly believe they can fight and win a nuclear war. In fact they would like to have a limited nuclear war in the Eurasia region. They want Putin gone, and want to control Russia and China. These are dangerous games to be playing. I don’t think either China or Russia want a nuclear war, nor do I think they are looking for new countries to conquer or to reassemble the Soviet Union. Now Russia is warning against any kind of NATO/US military intervention in the Ukraine and Russia said they will respond with nuclear weapons if need be. The neo-cons keep trying to provoke Russia into battle. They want war and want to blame Russia for starting it. Personally I wish the United States would work with Russia and China instead of against them. Imagine what the world would be like?

    3. HMMM? Am I the only conservative that doesn’t feel enslaved by the Petro dollar?

      Take over the world? Really?

      Man, I sure am glad that we took all that oil after invading Iraq, et al. Yep, that world domination thing is sure working out well, don’t you agree?

      You are an igmo. Igmo is a contraction meaning “Ignorant Moron”. If you look up those 2 words, you may find your picture.

      Yassa Massa. I is so enslaved by that nasty petro dollar…and, of course that world domination thing.

  23. I don’t believe we “know” where our enemies are actually targeting their proposed nuke strikes. I tend to think(in my Western way of thinking) that the Soviets/Russkies aren’t going to actually pop a nuke on us, when an EMP would do far more “damage” but still allow access to our agricultural production capabilities.(They would come in to “help” as would the Chinese “helpers”)
    An actual nuclear attack OTHER than an EMP, I don’t believe that either the PRC or the Soviets will do it. The swarthy Allah-Ahkbar shouters? In a heart beat IF, they can get their hands on one.

    1. First, there is no such thing as an actual standalone EMP weapon. Regardless what the mainstream news media, internet or alternative news says about them. The concept of EMP has been glamorized and promoted as this powerful destructive weapon. EMP is not a weapon per se, it is a side effect of a nuclear explosion. When a large yield nuclear weapon explodes there is massive amounts of gamma radiation and x-rays produced at the point of detonation. The radiation is so intense, that, in the air (or any other matter) on the atomic level, it literally rips the electrons from their orbits and produces what would appear like dropping a rock in water, ring of electrons moving outward from the point of detonation. Behind this ring are positively charged atoms (ions). So you have negatively charged ring moving outward in all directions. Meanwhile the positively charged atoms left in the wake are trying to re-stabilize and capture any electrons they could. Hence the electric charge produced. This causes secondary induced electric fields on conductive non-EMP hardened materials with voltages in the hundreds and thousands of volt range and currents in the hundreds of ampere range depending on distance. At these electric field intensities very few if any non-EMP hardened materials such as electronics, communications and computers will be operational. EMP can travel hundreds and thousands of miles and can travel around the earth several times before atomic and electric field stabilization occurs and the EMP diminishes. It’s very easy to protect against EMP using a faraday cage earth grounded. Even wrapping your device in aluminum foil and grounding it gives some protection. Disconnecting any antennas and AC mains power cords will help. As far as electronics and computers are concerned it is a very destructive force, but you CAN completely protect against it. They have created NON nuclear devices that will generate EMP but only on a very small scale and area. There’s only one place EMP occurs, the only place it can be produced, by a large scale, large yield nuclear weapon detonation. Nuclear strategy during the cold war was for the Soviets to detonate a 20 megaton thermo-nuclear weapon 250 miles above the center of the United States to disable all electronics and computers. Paralyze the enemy’s communication and military then strike with one massive blow using thousands of nuclear weapons….bye..bye !!

  24. Let me see if I have this right…Nukes fall on US…knock out electricity, kill many of the Nuke people who work there…the nukes in the US all 61 of them with 99 REACTORS…go full FUKU… and the whole world DIES…PERIOD…OCEANS DEAD forever. FOLKS there is no coming back from a full out strike…Dont care what you say or how you say it…

    1. True… it makes me think of Tom Lehrer’s frighteningly funny song “We’ll All Go Together When We Go”…

      And we’ll all go together when we go
      Every Hottentot and every Eskimo:
      When the air becomes uraneous
      We will all go simultaneous…

      You will all go directly to your respective Valhallas:
      Do NOT pass GO, do not collect a hundred dollars!

      Even though it is almost thirty years old, everyone, I think, should read Jonathan Schell’s remarkable book, “The Fate of the Earth”– which not only discusses the technical aspects of a Holocaust, but the moral, ethical, and practical concerns regarding it. I also recommend two great Philip Wylie novels, “Tomorrow!” (early ’50s) and “Triumph” (early ’60s). (Wylie was also the primary author of “When Worlds Collide”)

    2. You are correct. First strike will create N winter for several years and second strike retaliation will be automatic Doesn’t matter much where you aare.

      1. ARM only goes off when a certain amount of launches are detected.
        Under that threshold the response is up to the President.
        Thus Clinton’s document on how to absorb a 1st strike in the USA.

  25. Only God himself knows what’ll really happen but there is so much corruption,evil and stupidity in this world I’m surprised we’ve lasted this long.The U.S. is coming apart just fine according to the criminal elites plan,won’t have to fire a shot.The Fascist in chief is calling a great game.Iran or other terrorists will be the ones to use a nuke as they want their 12th “immam” to show up.Just snip the grid and we’re back to the 1800’s…………………..

  26. You were correct when you stated 80% of the nukes or gone thanks to Gorbachev
    and Reagan but thanks to Mr. BJ and a couple of Bush’s and “him”, the totals are now 30% past the 80% destroyed. This is what I do for a living ya’ll…ha! Sub-contracting is a very lucrative hobby. Do each of you actually think you know how much, how many, where, when, or who? Seriously kids, “Nuclear” will only be used by 3rd or 4th world countries. You don’t even suspect that the most intelligent people on this planet have gotten past “Nuclear?” Compare a flintlock to a 5000 degree laser, that much technology and goobles more has become fact. Remember, if you can dream it we can build it! And that is fact to the Enth degree. BTW, if everyone’s calculations or comments were on tract you would not be here to make more comments tomorrow, and that is factually a spot on fact. Happy dreaming sci-fi’ers. :-)(:

  27. It is an error to assume that all “12000” Russian nukes will be used to kill America and pound our cities to dust. As pointed out in the comments most are not capable of hitting the U.S. To defeat us they would target our ability to take them out too. Fixed installations would be the first strike targets. Missile silos SAC bases would be high on the list. As for your average citizen an emp strike, that would be the first thing done, would end in the death of most Americans Ina few months. Our cities and our land would be ripe for plunder. Most estimates place our dead at that point around 300 million. Leaving pleanty of nukes for other tactical used and limiting nuclear clouds dropping fallout on the homeland.

  28. I seem to remember reading about the Soviets test detonating some of their first devices in the 50s off of one of their coastlines.The blasts EMP knocked out all electrical power to major cities on the mainlands coastline for many miles inland.IIRC it took a long time for it to be restored and was a surprise to even the scientists and military.(maybe someone else can find/remember more facts about that incident.

  29. Sleepy Kat, we agree to those with both nukes and ICBMs to deliver them with there is nothing of intel value here. However, there are many non-players struggling to be able to play. I therefore suggest discussions of design, PALS, reflectors, neutron emitters, ring arrangements, yield modification, amounts of fissile material, or anything about that stuff simply be not discussed. If someone already knows about it, then it is redundant to discuss it anyway. If they do not possess that understanding or knowledge, then there exists no need to know. There exists very little true (as in approved for release by DoD/DOE) publicly released information about those devices. Such is the intent of Congress and those agencies involved. If DOE doesn’t release design details or speculation, why would we? Let what is esoteric, stay esoteric.

    Moving on, two or three thoughts.

    In the early 60s we had Davy Crocketts, possibly to be in Germany someday. There existed an unauthorized field modification worked out by some of the young men who were going to be playing with them, if the balloon went up. For unknown reasons these men were not keen on self immolation. One day a bunch of them came up with a plan. Why not pre-select your firing point, pre-position the device (or 3 or 4) where you expect the Soviet tanks to go, attach an electric gun firing solenoid pulled off a different weapon, a half mile or so of field wire, and a PT 312 field phone to generate the current. Voila. Instant remotely fired nuclear IED. All you needed was an observer to signal you when to turn a crank. Now you could wait till the enemy tanks were really close to the ‘abandoned’ firing position, zap them and live long enough to do it again and again. This field modification was of course both unauthorized, not known or talked about above the silver leaf level and since it was never done in real life also theoretical. It did work well with the practice shells though.

    Anyone remember the 60s war game where on paper we dropped so many nuclear shells the entire Kasserine Pass was way hot to an altitude of 40,000 feet and planes for the duration of the game had to detour around it?

    Getting back to the map.. LoL, how does Battle Mountain remain untouched? Also Site IV? Was someone really so naive they thought the Soviets wouldn’t bomb those places? Or was the thought that by not showing a red dot there on our map, maybe they would forget to bomb there in real life?

    Back in the mid 80s we had a computerized war game with the computer generating cable traffic and also real world units replying. Somewhere around hour 8 of the game SAC/NORAD began taking hits and was pretty thouroughly obliterated by the end of day 1. So too were many of our bases such as Offutt AFB, Norfolk, San Diego, etc. Mainland Europe had effectively disappeared with only some camp fires being reported by aerial recon by evening of day two. One of the big flaws in the game program was the computer insisted on continuing to send traffic from obliterated positions. So one the one hand you had NORAD mountain taking several direct hits from fusion devices, but the messages from it continued without pause. Likewise SHAPE/NATO was still sending messages from their smoky crater hole. Eventually this lame computer program decided we had won WW III. At final tally as the winning side CONUS had experienced over 4,800 nuclear and thermonuclear hits dispersed throughout and across the CONUS. Not a single depot, base, major city, major hospital or port capable of handling deep water vessels was intact. Most were destroyed/dead. We had “won.”

    Will we ever see a real world total war of that type? I hope not, and doubt it too. You no longer need to blanket a base with 20 nukes if you can lay in one well aimed one. Also the rhetoric between us and Russia isn’t as crazy as it used to be. Plan on something involving not more than 20 nukes hitting CONUS. Yes, that is bad, but trust me, 4,000 is worse. More likely just 2 or 3 with an expectation we will immediately surrender rather than experience more of that horror. Get the wrong President in there and we will. Yes, surrender is illegal. So we will call it negotiation for ceasefire. That is legal.

    China, India, Pakistan? They can’t be predicted. Just cross your fingers. Same with Israel and Iran. Question: total exchange between Iran and Israel, or India and Pakistan, where does the fallout go? Europe or China? If we nuke North Korea, aren’t we also cooking Alaska and Eastern Russia?

    Frankly, if ISIS can have French citizens go to Syria, fight there, then go home to France to kill some more, I am not understanding what isn’t happening with Ebola. Why aren’t dead from Ebola people’s clothing being carried into Europe or the US as luggage? A suicidal gets the clothes, puts them on then rides the subway at rush hour touching as many as possible. Stimulants to keep going as long as possible. Why aren’t we seeing this?

    1. All that so called info is on Wikipedia anyway.
      It’s probably DISINFORMATION.

  30. Sleepy Kat, we agree to those with both nukes and ICBMs to deliver them with there is nothing of intel value here. However, there are many non-players struggling to be able to play. I therefore suggest discussions of design, PALS, reflectors, neutron emitters, ring arrangements, yield modification, amounts of fissile material, or anything about that stuff simply be not discussed. If someone already knows about it, then it is redundant to discuss it anyway. If they do not possess that understanding or knowledge, then there exists no need to know. There exists very little true (as in approved for release by DoD/DOE) publicly released information about those devices. Such is the intent of Congress and those agencies involved. If DOE doesn’t release design details or speculation, why would we? Let what is esoteric, stay esoteric.

    Moving on, two or three thoughts.

    In the early 60s we had Davy Crocketts, possibly to be in Germany someday. There existed an unauthorized field modification worked out by some of the young men who were going to be playing with them, if the balloon went up. For unknown reasons these men were not keen on self immolation. One day a bunch of them came up with a plan. Why not pre-select your firing point, pre-position the device (or 3 or 4) where you expect the Soviet tanks to go, attach an electric gun firing solenoid pulled off a different weapon, a half mile or so of field wire, and a PT 312 field phone to generate the current. Voila. Instant remotely fired nuclear IED. All you needed was an observer to signal you when to turn a crank. Now you could wait till the enemy tanks were really close to the ‘abandoned’ firing position, zap them and live long enough to do it again and again. This field modification was of course both unauthorized, not known or talked about above the silver leaf level and since it was never done in real life also theoretical. It did work well with the practice shells though.

    Anyone remember the 60s war game where on paper we dropped so many nuclear shells the entire Fulda Gap was way hot to an altitude of 40,000 feet and planes for the duration of the game had to detour around it?

    Getting back to the map.. LoL, how does Battle Mountain remain untouched? Also Site IV? Was someone really so naive they thought the Soviets wouldn’t bomb those places? Or was the thought that by not showing a red dot there on our map, maybe they would forget to bomb there in real life?

    Back in the mid 80s we had a computerized war game with the computer generating cable traffic and also real world units replying. Somewhere around hour 8 of the game SAC/NORAD began taking hits and was pretty thouroughly obliterated by the end of day 1. So too were many of our bases such as Offutt AFB, Norfolk, San Diego, etc. Mainland Europe had effectively disappeared with only some camp fires being reported by aerial recon by evening of day two. One of the big flaws in the game program was the computer insisted on continuing to send traffic from obliterated positions. So one the one hand you had NORAD mountain taking several direct hits from fusion devices, but the messages from it continued without pause. Likewise SHAPE/NATO was still sending messages from their smoky crater hole. Eventually this lame computer program decided we had won WW III. At final tally as the winning side CONUS had experienced over 4,800 nuclear and thermonuclear hits dispersed throughout and across the CONUS. Not a single depot, base, major city, major hospital or port capable of handling deep water vessels was intact. Most were destroyed/dead. We had “won.”

    Will we ever see a real world total war of that type? I hope not, and doubt it too. You no longer need to blanket a base with 20 nukes if you can lay in one well aimed one. Also the rhetoric between us and Russia isn’t as crazy as it used to be. Plan on something involving not more than 20 nukes hitting CONUS. Yes, that is bad, but trust me, 4,000 is worse. More likely just 2 or 3 with an expectation we will immediately surrender rather than experience more of that horror. Get the wrong President in there and we will. Yes, surrender is illegal. So we will call it negotiation for ceasefire. That is legal.

    China, India, Pakistan? They can’t be predicted. Just cross your fingers. Same with Israel and Iran. Question: total exchange between Iran and Israel, or India and Pakistan, where does the fallout go? Europe or China? If we nuke North Korea, aren’t we also cooking Alaska and Eastern Russia?

    Frankly, if ISIS can have French citizens go to Syria, fight there, then go home to France to kill some more, I am not understanding what isn’t happening with Ebola. Why aren’t dead from Ebola people’s clothing being carried into Europe or the US as luggage? A suicidal gets the clothes, puts them on then rides the subway at rush hour touching as many as possible. Stimulants to keep going as long as possible. Why aren’t we seeing this?

  31. Fukushima is Radiating your whole West coast line! Killing all Sea life and we have people here debating where to move to on a Nuke War? Time you remove the Idiot in the White-House who would be Insane enough to even contemplates using Nukes is Now!

    Russia nor China are the Enemy USA are the Threat they Caused this problem in Ukraine not Russia or China? Iraq Syria Libya Afghanistan are not enough blood letting for this Nobel Peace Obamination?

    God Help us all from this madness!”Give Peace a Chance”

  32. I can see a strike that will be an anonymous one, it would be in a major city and will be from an off shore sub(s) that will be remotely piloted and not be able to be traced to any one nation, the delivery system will be generic, the missile will be generic, they might recover the ship, they might shoot down the missile in the nick of time or not but it will not be able to trace it back any time soon to the perpetrator. This could also happen en mass, what better way to attack your opponent than not to have to take responsibility for it.

    1. Cant happen_every ship at sea has a Sat trained on it. As I said, name tags on uniforms can be read.
      A nuclear attack on the USA won’t happen unless our Leaders want it to happen for their own agenda.
      Which brings us to 9/11. An excuse to trample our liberties & the Constitution.
      Those buildings were imploded with preset demolitions.
      The planes looked real, sounded real but were Sat VR images.

      One new secret tech. Sat VR so real, we won’t be able to tell it apart from reality.
      We might see alien invasions or the 2nd coming…millions will believe it.
      Well I’m hopping off now. Good Luck.

  33. Note to self: Places to be in a nuclear exchange:

    1. Small scale exchange targeting key military installations: Central Idaho or Northern Maine

    2. Large scale exchange targeting key military installations and populations centers: Downtown Washington D.C.

  34. Speaking of “One Second After”, the sequel” One Year After”, comes out soon.

        1. I agree. I read it, and although it was ‘okay’ (in my opinion), it certainly was nowhere near the impact of the original…

  35. Our Coast Guard & Navy check or interdict ships that approach within 200 miles. Big deal. Even an ancient Scud C has a range of 340 miles with a 1,200 lb warhead. A more modern Scud D has a 620 mile range with a 2,100 lb payload.

    Way back in the 1960s our Honest John rocket could loft a W-7 warhead of 40Kt yield weighing only 1,100 lb. That’s twice the power of what we dropped on Hiroshima.

    We are supposed to believe all of our enemies are too stupid to take advantage of modern technology, advances and dead ends recognized in the past 50 years to build something equivalent and fit it to a Scud. We are supposed to believe they give a damn about single point (and in fact there are a lot of reasons they may wish the ability to command detonate with only a second or two of warning). We are supposed to believe that 12 foot long Scud can’t be fit into a shielded shipping container and loaded underneath other shielded containers to hide it onto a container ship (or fish trawler) headed to the US, be hauled out when 300 or 500 miles off our coast and launched. Yeah sure, a 1/2 kilometer CEP. So they miss Wall St and nuke downtown Newark instead. Like they would care. Or, miss Beverly Hills but nuke Santa Monica or Brentwood instead. Again, like they would care. A 40 Kt nuke makes a nice mushroom cloud. We no longer have a radar net around the continent. We might not even know where it came from for a day or two. Meanwhile they may sail on to San Francisco or Boston and do it again. Or maybe there is a second ship enroute. Nothing coming close enough for legal interdiction.

    That’s just one scenario. We are so wide open I can come up with a dozen, some not even needing the nukes.

    1. SCUDS have a maximum range of 100 miles. The original SCUDS only had a range of 25 miles.

      1. @Mustang75, fyi…

        Range of a ‘Scud’
        Scud-A 180km (111 miles)
        Scud-B 300km (186 miles)
        Scud-C 550km (341 miles)
        Scud-D 700km (434 miles)

        1. That is my understanding of the ranges also. A nuclear tipped SCUD C or D inside a shielded shipping container would be a serious threat.

  36. 300 or 400 nuclear and thermonuclear, much less a few thousand, detonations all in a single 24 hour period should just about do it for land based life on Earth. The issue of countries will be truly unimportant by the end of that week. Noting also with bemusement there are more potential players in such a game than just the 3 named, and those countries missiles will probably fly too if they see an advantage in doing so.

    Comparing the relative size of two alley cats to a dead mouse, when the cats are facing someone with a machine gun is kind of fatally dumb on the side of the cats. Even if they are lions and manage to inflict fatal wounds with the attack, they are still afterwards quite dead.

  37. Nah, China has maybe 50 ICBM silos. Figure 10% of those down for maintenance at any time. Their super ‘secret’ underground stored rail cars of missiles are not ‘Secret; at all. Neither are the others. Your idea of what US nuclear targeting plans are is pure speculation. I suspect they are also wrong. :)

    The US has been psychologically ready for a war like that for 60 years. We call it MAD. Mutually Assured Destruction. “act as a deterrent and killing hundred s of millions of people doesn’t appall the policy makers ,nothing will.” True. It may appall, but it certainly doesn’t deter them. What will be, will be. Let it be so.

    You need to look at the map at the beginning of the thread. We have expected our population centers to be hit for decades and decades. There is nothing new in what you write.

    I don’t understand all of your ramblings. Would you prefer a regular war with only a few dozen Americans winning?

    1. I expect you will get a ‘Yankee Imperialist Dog!’ or two if you don’t go along with China’s point of view. lol

      1. LoL, he did one more rambling about court martialing whoever orders the next Tonkin Gulf with a carrier to incite China, than vanished.

  38. I agree these are much more dangerous times than the Cold War days. Back then at least both sides understood who the threat was, what tactics would probably be, and all of the players were known and identifiably on one side or the other and everyone watched for the attack.

    Today, no we don’t know all the players. We can expect both the kinds of attacks we planned for in the 60s – 90, but we should probably also expect attacks from outside that box, and involving other forms of WMD. Asymmetric attacks too, such as economic or viral. Possibly in concert with old fashioned fission bombs, possibly not.

  39. Wow.. Our government using nukes against its own people. Quite a stretch there Ventura.

    I think based on what the people in the know have said, we are as well prepared for a nuclear war as need be.

    I know this is a nuclear weapon discussion, but has anyone also considered the size of an Army the U.S. can raise if needed. Let me drop a rough estimate on you 100,000,000 man army. Thankfully the right to bare arms has not been totally infringed upon and there are enough weapons to arm that many men.

    1. You believe that there will be one hundred million people left alive in the US after a nuclear war? Really? I doubt that there are that many people in the country *now* that are military capable for one reason or another.

  40. Fallout is a great fictional game series for any of you interested. Also, I intend on doing cyber in the Air Force through the ROTC program. I will likely be stationed in Texas or Colorado, according to a few personnel I’ve talked to. How plausible is it that I as an Air Force personnel in the future would survive a said nuclear war?

  41. Much of the supposition discussed here is based on assumed accuracy of delivery systems.

    I believe that a myriad of unforeseen factors in the atmosphere, equipment and defensive tactics will so affect the precision of incoming missiles, aircraft and satellite launches, that most detonations will appear to be random.

    Hopefully, some random people, in some random places, will survive.

    BTW: I was one of those kids doing the ‘Duck and Cover’ thing back in the 50’s. Both the Soviets and USA knew what a nuclear war meant.

    Today is far more dangerous as terrorists, grossly uniformed peeps and just plain wackos have or will get the ‘bomb’.

    Midnight’s not creeping, it’s at a gallop.

  42. AFROTC – I doubt whether or not one is AF or Marine or Coast Guard or even civilian will mean much to a 20,000 degree Fahrenheit fireball. You are either where it is not, or you are a memory.

    1. I did not mean literally surviving a nuke dropped on my head.. I meant according to the targets and overall feasibility of the enemy targeting said Air Force bases.

      1. AFROTC, this has nothing to do with feasibility. The reality is all military bases will be targeted. A high state of alert would result in a lot of equipment being moved and put airborne, but most personnel on the base would remain. Don’t worry, by the time you see the flash, you will be gone.

      2. As far as launching a nuke from an anonymous ship & then scuttling it…sorry but every ship at sea has a Sat trained on it & they can read the crew name tags.

  43. The government will have a strong notion when this is about to happen. There will be a trigger event and that will set the gears in motion. Could start by Israel making a tactical strike against Iran. Iran has probably secured nukes from Russia. They might launch high yield warheads against Israel in retaliation and maybe UAE for good measure.

    At this point, once there was initial launch detection, the US and Russia would move their subs into an offensive posture. Phone calls would be made to try to de-escalate the situation. Additional launches would more than likely occur over the Strait of Hormuz to try to destroy any possible US/Israeli strikes. If any US warships were to be hit, the US would more than likely fire back with the kitchen sink. Israel would launch (if it was able) against remaining targets in the Middle East. By this time USAF and Russian bombers would be airborne heading for their prospective targets. Russia will activate that boat known as Doomsday towards it’s detonation area. If this is not stopped at this point, all the small theaters of war will go nuclear, like Pakistan. You will then know who really is nuclear.

    There are over 20,000 warheads of various flavors somewhere in Lebanon under Hezbollah’s control that will be launched at Israel. If Israel can fire it’s 200 nukes it will. This scenario will probably take place in a Window of about 2 hours. Bad travels fast. Next step would be determined by the US and Russia.

    The federal government would declare Martial Law. Gun ownership lists would be sent to local AR/NG groups. I don’t know how much of an effort the government would make to warn people as most would take this as the end and anarchy would ensue.

  44. I think the best chance of surviving a nuclear war would be to live in southern Chile, Argentina, or south Africa, perhaps somewhere in southern Pacific islands. btw, aren’t most ICMBs directed to go over the Arctic in an exchange between Russia and the USA?

    1. New Zealand. But the locals would off you as you were competition and an illegal. And yes most ICBM’s are, that’s the shortest route. Russian bombers also would launch cruise missiles from Greenland and the Bering Sea. SLBM’s launched off the coasts, now that’s different, say if you are in D.C. or San Diego you may have 5 minutes.

      How long will our luck hold out? By all rights we should not even be here, 1962 and when in 1983 Petrov refused to launch an overwhelming strike from the USSR as their version of NORAD was freaking out in total bedlam convinced they were under attack. Petrov was only on duty as his replacement, a hawk, was down sick for the first and only time in 30 years.

      Given a 1% per year chance of doomsday, either by accident, miscalculation, escalation or otherwise the odds are not on our side given enough time. We have been very fortunate to say the least and take it for granted.

      The question is, would you want to survive? We can say yes, having never gone through it and having no precedence. The reality will likely be very, very different.

  45. That’s quite a script. Perhaps Hollywood should be calling? As to “what harm are a few hundred more” well, where to start.

    On second thought never mind.

  46. First, I think the idea of the govt. deciding to do house to house searches for hidden firearms all over the US (including the inner city neighborhoods even the police won’t go into in packs of smaller than 5 or 6) AFTER nukes have begun flying in the Mid East (as postulated above) and us being at Defcon 1 is hilarious. Good luck getting the soldiers to follow that order with a nuclear blast imminent.

    There is also an entire escape from reality for anyone who imagines a local NG or Army Reserve unit would be effective at confiscating weapons inside their normal AOR. Those believing that should read America’s Armories or a similar book of militia history. In the post Civil War era there were many riots for various reasons (mostly about railroads Right of Way and coal mines). Governor after Governor activated their local Militia units (pre-NG) in the towns where riots were happening only to have them refuse to fight against their uncles, nephews, or neighbors. Indeed in several towns during the various riots the militia members simply switched sides or surrendered their firearms and armory keys to the rioters.

    The militia was the ‘People’s Army’, not the army of Cornelius Vanderbilt or Carnegie or political hacks they put in power. This is part of what led to the disbanding of many Militia units and their replacement with a new force called State Police in most states. The concept back then was the State Police upon hiring would be sent to the other side of the State where they knew no one. They would have their own barracks (and they did) and like the military only the most favored would get to marry and leave barracks life, and they would not have local community ties.

    That worked for a while, but it ain’t like that anymore. Neither is the National Guard. Like the Militia before it, today’s NG is mostly folks from the community around the armory. They join to help their neighbors in time of disaster (not run off to Iraq for 6 months and come back minus a leg or something and with no more job and a wife pregnant with someone else’s kid). Yes, you could in theory fly the Colorado NG into Philadelphia to do the house to house searches (like we did in New Orleans during Katrina, but the Colarado NG arrived without bullets because American Airlines wouldn’t allow bullets on the planes, so until Fed Ex figured out how to get the crates of ammo to them, they borrowed it from PR’s NG (who had their own transport) or raided Walmart’s supplies), but trust me it would not be a popular assignment. Even less popular once little sister calls on the cell phone to tell he NG brother a PA National Guardsman kicked down the door of his Denver home and Dad was shot trying to throw them out of the house, and btw a Russian nuclear missile strike in Philadelphia is expected any minute now. Yeah. LoL to that whole scenario.

    Someone else complaining about the smell of bodies burning in the cities after the strikes and Mad Max gangs running around seizing supermarkets. Yeah, for a week or two. I am not sure why someone would come out of their shelter to see that though. Yes, I know ‘fallout shelters’ are nowadays politically incorrect and also some zoning authorities started denying them in socialist parts of the US. However, those same zoning agencies would usually approve installation of a fallout shelter if the submitted rough sketch called it a ‘root cellar’ or a ‘tornado shelter’. I know several folks with such ‘tornado’ shelters, well stocked, more than one way in/out and with air filters based on Kearny’s long ago designs. So really what we read here is, ‘if I am unprepared I would be happier dying rather than hear the wails of folks burning or be forced to slave out my wife to the Mad Max gangs in return for a bite to eat’. Okay. That’s an opinion.

    Let me say this, anyone running around above ground in the two weeks afterwards, probably won’t be there 4 weeks later. So don’t worry about them. Also forget the scenario where we all 80 million survivors hop off into the woods and feast on Bambi. We tried that during the Great Depression and by the time of the first deer census in 1932, deer were almost extinct in America. Someone needs to read Kearney on Nuclear War Survival and learn some agriculture. Get set for lots of bugs though because the birds go first when things are radioactive. The good news is bugs are edible too.

    LoL to all the tin foil hat stuff about Jade Helm. The military and FEMA response to Katrina was a disaster of it’s own. JOINT OPS is how we wish to do things. Truly hard when no one local has the same radio frequency, different computers running incompatible programs, no prior briefings on how things will be done, no tested pre-disaster plans in place, etc., etc.

    The paranoid tin foil crowd thinks JH is about them. Nah. There are disasters coming. It isn’t an if, it is a when. You can pick one. Another Regional Category 5 Hurricane, a sudden 6 inch drop in the New Madrid Earthquake Zone, a stronger repeat of the 2012 Eastern Seaboard quake, the Yellowstone thing, or (popular this year with Hollywood) the San Andreas fault finally moves. Any of the predicted mega earthquake or volcano scenarios will probably destroy housing for at least 30 million, commerce will be zilch, roadway overpasses and bridges will be gone and an unprecedented in history mob of refugees will need food, water, medical, transport and shelter. A Nepal type scenario on one coast line or the other. How to cope with that, IMO that is what Jade Helm is all about.

    1. Ken, do you know who is fighting the wars in the Middle East? It is AR/NG. It has also changed their TOE. So, you can quote from the past but the current speaks volumes. There are combat ready troops at your back door, not just the neighborhood weekend warrior. They already probably have lists out to these units. And the government is really good at control. Anyway…

      1. Really? Tell that to the 10th Mtn.Div. or the 25th Inf Division, et al.

  47. All of this was foretold. Remember to love thy neighbor when it happens…

  48. Reading up on all this I cant help but wonder how many of the deactivated silos are still targets. It wouldnt do either side any good to waste one on a deactivated target. The fallout wouldnt deliver the needed effects alone due to time. Youd want to kill as many as possible as quickly as possible. I wont say what i did while in the army but I know I never heard a word about deactivated targets or what the secondary targets would be. I assume they would be civilian targets.

  49. I spent 20 years in the army and i know what PALs,defcoms etc are . If we went to Defcom 1,the politicians would be heading for cover but the military would be ready to strike.I felt safer when we MAD with Russia.We both knew that we could destroy each other. Right now our government scares me more than any of our enemies. Our do -nothing congress and our power mad president are out of control. The good old USA is no more a democratic country. The government has forgotten that they work for the people !!! Good luck everyone !!!!

  50. Relax. Jade Helm is almost done and no roundups yet. Just earthquake response practice.

  51. Clearly some of you have very old information… the US did sign the salt II, agreement and all ICBM’S are SRV (single reentry vehicles) there are no multiple WH ICBM’S anymore.

    1. I always think about the weapons classification tables. Just because something isn’t standard A doesn’t mean it’s not standard B

  52. Wow! In the big safe circle in Oregon, I’m literally in the center! I have a feeling I’ll be safe!

  53. The map does not include any attacks likely in Canada, which is part of NATO or any other country that allies itself with the US. I highly doubt the US would be happy with just Russia either, it will likely also hit China, North Korea and Kazakhstan. In e meantime, India and Pakistan will hit each other with a few nukes each, and Israel will attempt to kill off all of its arab neighbours. It seems the safest thing to do is to head south to survive the nuclear winter. Mexico and Canada should seal their borders to prevent the scourge of American Refugees fleeing for their lives, just as the US has blocked people entry from Mexico in years gone by

    Europe will be likely heavily targeted if ANY nukes from any one European state land into Russia from the west, be sure theyll be no winners

  54. 46170/2w091 – LoL, a little knowledge is a dangerous thing. :)
    Yes, the US & the USSR had some agreements called SALT II and START 2 and they both honored SALT II (the US Senate never approved it though). LoL to the presumption that means there are “no multiple WH ICBM’S anymore.”

    Perhaps a more accurate statement would be: ‘The US has no ‘active’ LAND BASED multiple WH ICBM’S, but our Trident SLBM fills the role nicely, and we still keep about 450 land based Peacekeepers with MIRV capability in storage and now that we have abandoned most of the Start 2 agreement we may put them back on-line again, and also of course Russia was not required to abandon her MIRV capable ICBMs, nor even her tactical nukes, so the Russian Strategic Rocket Forces have 369 ICBMs able to deliver 1,247 nuclear warheads (in addition to their submarine launched SLBMs), and of course since China was not a part of either agreement, China still has model DF 41 ICBM missiles which can carry 10 warheads each (and of course at least 5 Type 94 nuclear submarines, each capable of launching 12 JL2 SLBMs with MIRV (3 or 4 WH, at about 90Kt each) capability), and meanwhile Israel’s Jericho III missile can be equipped with up to 3 warheads apiece. And then of course because of our egos, no one had ever invited India to the weapons talks, so India now fields her own AGNI-V ICBM which is very much MIRV capable. And of course, least we forget England has 4 Vanguard subs each armed with 16 MIRV capable Trident missiles with 12 WH on each (192 WH per sub in theory, but the UK has promised to not put more than 48 WH on each sub), and of course France has 4 subs, each carrying 16 SLBMs with 6 to 10 WHs apiece (i.e., MIRVS), and of course the wild card of Pakistan enters the game as she already has ICBMs, but their MIRV warheads aren’t scheduled to be operational until the end of 2015, which is not that far away.’

    That is what you should have said.

    1. @ Ken 20
      Well that sure makes me feel all warm and fuzzy, Thanks :-(
      The truth be known, if Nuke war starts, we are all toast no matter what or who starts it. Sooner or later it’s our destiny as the human race will fail itself.

  55. Way back in the early 60s it was accepted as dogma that in the event of a war going nuclear, the survival time of the continent of Europe was 3 days maximum. Europe is small and when you start drawing little 5 mile circles around key cities and military bases, shipping points, bridges, broadcast towers, rail yards, oil fields, airfields, power plants, and even hospitals (because soldiers will get treated there and returned to combat), lo and behold the uncovered places soon vanish and fall out soon covers the not struck places too..

    In our own war game scenarios, once the number of nuclear strikes on the US exceeds 4 or 5 thousand (which is somewhere in day one) the scenario result is similar. Being inside South America or being deep inside Australia may briefly allow longer life, but then we get into world wide fallout, disease, a cessation of international commerce (no more imported food, no more oil), and of course nuclear winter.

    Then of course you have those subs, some of who get orders to go to the bottom and just sit there for a week or two (or three) before surfacing to launch. That way the folks who sat in the shelter for two weeks and now think they are safe and came outside, well they have a surprise heading their way.

  56. Tonyp – “because they don’t hold to your corrupt ideals of what YOU consider to be right.” Is that not the very definition itself of a potential enemy? And also of course, LoL to the thought the third world will somehow happily survive. You think things are bad there now? Let a global nuclear war happen and watch how things get much worse for everyone.

    J Franklin – by thermal means, I agree. Not so much by moving distortions in the Earths electromagnetic field or even the newer deep radars.

    Soylent – Even if some is wrong, you say too much. That being said, there are plenty of good articles about creating a serious EMP available online as open source. Fact is, to knock out the US you would need way more than just one EMP detonation. Square of the distance rule kicks in. The US is big. Even the 50s test that accidentally fried part of Hawaii’s grid only knocked out some of it. Additionally the ‘Hawaii effect’ was not that long a lasting event. If you wanted it to be effective you would also need to disrupt and displace the ionosphere (that also disrupts the orbits of satellites due to increased friction changing the orbits), bur to cause that kind of disruption you will indeed need a few of the detonations to be thermonuclear. At least 20 launches I think. Add to that we do (still) have some EMP shielded launch sites and control centers. Do you imagine for even a second that the launch of 20 ICBMs would not be detected or that the generation of (or even the attempted generation of) detonations followed by a massive EMP would not be answered within seconds by 200 or so MIRVs going in the other direction?

    Soylent – Another minor point. The US avoided single point devices. After the Cold War paused (some say ended, but I am not so sure) we confirmed many other members of the nuclear club did and do still have single points. No PAL equivalents at all. I know we several times tried to convince the world it is needed, but I do not believe all parties listened. Has that ever caused them problems the US didn’t have? I am somewhat confident from time to time it may have. Maybe someday they will discuss their own accidents.

    KD – No they don’t. They can follow the newer models and simply release a device that floats up, then automatically launches the missile by itself at the proper depth. The release itself would be the launch from the sub’s perspective. Once released the device would do the rest. Like winding an alarm clock with no off switch.

    Mescalero1 – In this day and age why would a submersible launch platform need to be manned? Stick a NOAA label on it and call it an experimental deep water habitat or something similar. Alternatively, there are what, 5 nations with nuclear powered subs out there? [I am including China’s plans to make it’s 4 nuclear MIRV equipped subs go operational this year (finally).] Are you truly 1,000% convinced no one has cross wired their launch panel so that after some are launched everything else on the sub except a count down timer goes stone cold dead, and whether or not the crew starves or runs out of air is unimportant to the next mission of a repeat launch in a few weeks or a month? After all, once a half dozen nukes have left the sub the crew is expendable anyway. It isn’t like there will be a home left to sail home to.

    1. Human nature, Ken, strives for survival. When it comes to subs, you are making an assumption that no one will be able to bypass systems in the sub. This means the current fleet, when they get in trouble outside of warfare do not have a manual systems bypass like blowing the ballast tanks to surface. If there is a war and the controls “go dead”, the first thing they will do is surface that sub, period. Not only that, once the birds start sailing from under the ocean, it’s not hard to see where they came from. Everyone here has talked about land based warfare and some underwater warfare, but there hasn’t been a lot of talk about air warfare. We always assume because out of stupidity, we think we are the only supreme ones that can wage warfare against anyone and come out successful. As it turns out, a bug can stop the most sophisticated piece of equipment. Just imagine what a person could do.

      Also, any vehicles that are running from remote signals can be jammed. Ever think about that? When I was in the Army, back when we were still using TTY, my first MOS was cryptograhpics and radio. I ended up becoming a Ranger but I had a lot of experience. Even in this day and age, it is not hard to use radio telemetry to find signal sources. So all of this RF controlled warfare can be stopped easily. And, if you are thinking about the subs computer taking control away from the crew, don’t forget the crew’s systems officers know the control on the boat and remove a few cards and you have a stupid sub. You can pre-program the warhead but you can’t the launch time since you don’t know when a war is going on. And I doubt there will be many heroes that are going to say let’s give it up since there is no home anyway. The will to survive outweighs the will to wage war and quit. Whatever. I think anyone that thinks that we will reign supreme in a nuclear exchange has bought the ticket. We will not know until we get there and then it is too late.

      It’s funny when I think back a few generations in my family, when the elders believed we were here to take care of the earth and the animals and we had respect for this. Then when the Europeans came here, they just raped the land, killed off animals for trophies and have taken us to the point of MAD. Good job.

  57. Mescalero1 – Regarding the subs, I agree to your basic assumption that an alive crew on a sub suddenly dead in the water would be working frantically to bring the sub back to life. That said, I think you have to agree that making the sub go dead in the water is a kind of cold hearted thing to do to a crew. With planners that soulless might they also not pre-program in a step to prevent the crew from doing much of anything as the sub receives an action command and switches to automated dive and wait until day X before launching? Yes, I see problems with having the sub computer blowing the hatches and flooding the compartments. Mostly electrical problems with the salt water. Nerve gas in the ventilator systems? Maybe. It is all speculative fantasy of course, but if one can envision a planner cold blooded enough and possessed of a little ingenuity, how the crew felt about the sub’s little black box suddenly taking control probably wouldn’t be terribly important 2 seconds afterwards. A HAL9000 scenario on steroids.

    1. I just saw this Ken. That is something no one has considered, a HAL on steroids. Did you ever see that movie, what was the name? Julie Christie, oh yeah, Demon Seed. Who knows how close we are to something like that happening? Like I said in another reply, a nuclear war is the least of our worries. Terminator is a fantasy, but smart machines figuring out that the clowns were running the circus might not be far off. I think a nice bottle of Perrier Jouet Rose would cut the edge on these thoughts right now…..

  58. Dear sir,
    A long time ago, circa 1986, I was searching for a reference book and came across another one, nothing to do with the subject of my search, showing a global map on top of which possible atomic bombs targets were indicated. I was terrified with what I saw, mainly because, at that time, an attack to Libia (I do not remember well) was happening (or about to happen). Unfortunately I did not buy that book, what I regret much today. During lazy times and when I remember, I go into Internet and search (as I am doing now) to see if I can find similar maps. As I understood from this web page, the map you portrayed refers only to military targets. Would you be able to indicate possible references (books, Internet addresses, etc) where I can find such indicative maps? I was much surprised that there were, on that map, many civil locations in non-nuclear and non-beligerant countries that would be targeted if a global war was initiated.
    The purpose of this message is purely for personal knowledge and update of knowledge.
    Many thanks

  59. Cutler, Maine is the location of US Navy’s VLF antenna array, used for strategic communications with the Atlantic submarine fleet. It will be one of the first targets, if not the first.
    Happy hunting.

    1. Another VLF location on the other side of the country.

    2. there’s nothing left in Maine to do with the military period, I know I am a born and raised 50 year old Mainer!

      1. Maines population is all in southern and western maine. We have plenty of room for anyone who need to hide out. 9/10ths of my state is woods

  60. Does anyone out there have any data on the survivability of places like Central America, assuming a large or all-out nuclear war in the U.S.? It’s true that one will have to get out of the country before the Treasonist-in-Chief uses a false flag to declare martial law, but it’s better to have some sort of plan in any case.

    1. Teaman, as much as everyone would like to profess they know, no one really knows because you can only think what we would do and no one really knows what the other nuclear powers are thinking or will think in this scenario.

      Most people don’t mess with Russia, because, unlike other countries, they don’t need weeks of ratification to take care of some issue. They spend the time planning instead. It was really stupid of anyone to claim that they blew up that Russian civilian jet. You can see that by the attack yesterday by Russia on Syrian targets. And now it looks like Iraq wants to take advantage of the Soviet intervention and wants to invite them into Iraq to rid them of ISIL.

      The reason I bring this up is because as much as propaganda would like us to think the Soviet Union is done, they did a pretty good job of fielding their supersonic bombers in large numbers and bombing targets in Syria with impunity. We might have stealth capabilities, but you can find stealth aircraft. However, we have not done anything in the way of high speed bombers in a long time. We have gone for covert. And, a B2 has already been downed, so that should give you an idea of their vulnerability. Technology always catches up with other technologies. But you just can’t beat good old speed. They just have to get close enough to fire nuclear tipped cruise missiles.

      So, no one knows really where the safe place is going to be. The Russians showed what they hunt, and those are military targets to hinder the ability to operate. The US seems hellbent on destabilizing he Middle East. Odd, ISIL is exporting oil. I wonder who is curious who the buyers are. Seems Putin knows and he has no problem exposing the truth. Recipe for disaster? Who knows. A lot of conflicting messages in the world. In one breath, he is putting down the corruption of the US government, in the next he is aligning with them. The Middle East makes a great test bed for weapons development, though.

      You can’t let other people’s madness rule your life. Live it to the fullest and stay home. Maybe nothing will happen. Maybe the way we destroy our planet won’t be nuclear. Maybe we will just ruin the oceans, or the atmosphere. So many choices…..

    2. Teaman, how do you think the locals in Latin America would feel about NorteAmericanos moving in, especially after something we invented had just destroyed much of the world?

  61. All’s I got to say is as of now 11/28/2015 We are as close to WWIII as we ever have been and I’m thankful for being born in Maine atthis point and never moved.

  62. Let’s pray guys,and hope for the best,cause things are not looking good at all right now.Here In Moscow the media is much more alarmed and says scary things about possible nuclear conflict.God give them wisdom to those guys in charge (Putin and co.)

  63. Most know the Russians figure, after living through WW2, they could survive a nuclear exchange. Some interesting tidbits about that. Stalin starting building planned industrial cities, east of the Urals, as a way to put some capacity out of the reach of the Nazis. The Urals form a good barrier, because there’s a basin to just to the east of them that’s basically 100 miles of swamp, water & rocks.

    In the 1950s, the USSR continued to build industry in Siberia, with well spaced-out ‘major’ cities. Minor cities were planned, and built, in a ring around the major industrial cities, at about 60 to 100 miles distance, and another ring of much smaller cities another 60 to 100 miles out.

    The motivation, at least according to Farley Mowatt’s “Siberia”, was to give the cities inhabitants the ability to have rural farming cottages (dachas) in the greenspace rings. But it strikes me it’s also a perfect way to space out the cities to increase survivability in a nuclear exchange.

    We demonize the Russians a bit – I suspect they’re more peace loving than some in the US give them credit for. And Mowatt wasn’t dealing with the issue of nuclear war, and further is given to embellishment. Nonetheless, you can see on a map that the Siberian cities are spread out – and most of them are the new planned cities.

    Scary how close we came. The USSR took survivability seriously, and was ready to call our bluff.

  64. Knocking out electrical communications/systems/and grids is what is going to happen. It will put us all back in Mad Max times. Man will turn on man at a local level and more casualties will come from this. Those who prepared will become targets of those who did not. Martial Law will replace the laws as we know it. Life will change. Currency will be useless. Gold, most likely have $0 value as well as looters and thieves seeking the easy way to survive will be exterminated. For some maybe for the better. For others; not so much.

    Generations that were born into the “technology and internet era” will not survive as unlike generations before all that; we actually have some instinct on survival. Basically; without a smart phone; they are doomed.

  65. Dont you all know that talking about Russia and their EMP’s might give them ideas? quit while you’re ahead man.

  66. I don’t know exactly what to think anymore. What I do think though is that the majority of comments are off track. #1, why does everyone think that “they” (Russia) will hit every nuke plant in the US? Tactically it makes no sense to even try. A couple of EMP’s will take down the grid and nuke plants are not a danger to any other country. If our grid does go down you can bet the reactors will be shut down by us. Let’s get past the WW11 scare propaganda mentality. The people in command and control are not insane mad dogs, hollywood is not real life. We have to wake up to the fact that there is massive PsyOps going on against the American people. We are being manipulated by our own out of control government. Love your country always but your government only if they deserve it, and at present they don’t. #2 Russia is not the aggressor,we are. But that being said, our government has been hijacked, it does not in any way represent the will of the majority of Americans. Who is it that has hijacked our government? IF 15 of the 19 hijackers on 9/11 were from Saudi Arabia, why did we invade Iraq? Why did General Wesley Clark say that we would topple 7 middle eastern countries? From the standpoint of the security of the United States, what we are doing in the middle east makes no sense whatsoever.UNTIL, I read the document “The Greater Israel Project”. Now, it makes a lot more sense. #3 I don’t believe for a minute that Russia wants to destroy the United States. I believe that Putin is a very sane,intelligent and thoughtful leader who actually cares about his people , unlike our own government leadership that shows its’ disdain for its’ people daily. I believe that our military leaders are on the back channel with Russia, doing all they can to counter the insanity that is our current administration. Lastly, I pray that our military leaders will intervene at the proper time to save us all from annihilation.

  67. Texas Michael – You are correct today’s generation of Americans has been raised without many basic survival skills. There are a lot of reasons this has been permitted to happen and I don’t believe any of them were intentional.

    There was some silly comedy movie (Cast Away with Tom Hanks) a decade or so ago about some engineer marooned on a desert island when his plane crashed into the water nearby. In the movie he was lost about how to build a fire when all the while his mostly intact airplane was plainly visible in the shallows a few hundred yards off the beach. About his struggle to make a spear for food or his inability to signal for help, gathering leaves to build a thatch shelter, etc.

    Yet the audience accepted the scenario. I blame that as much upon over specialization of occupations as I do upon poor upbringing and education. Any 5th or 6th grade kid I went to public grade school with in the 1960s would have instantly seen the mostly ignored downed airplane as a gold mine.

    Sharp metal for points, struts for spears, salvaging of fuel in the tanks for fire fuel, the batteries in the wings for a spark, miles of copper wire and OMG even sparkplugs off the engine. Surely there was at least one magnet somewhere in the plane or it’s engines.. Wing panels or other scrap for a shelter roof. Is there no nylon thread usable for a bow string anywhere on the plane? I think most of the 5th or 6th graders of my generation would have had their spark gap radio operational by day 4 and probably some kind of working generator (to recharge the batteries hauled out of the plane) up by day 10. Surely there is something round somewhere on the plane that could be configured to make a “music box cylinder’ and something else that could be configured as a comb, so that as it spins 3 short, 3 long, 3 short bursts of sparks could be generated over and over with a 5 second pause between each string? That would allow automation of the SOS process leaving time for better hunting and learning how to make some decent wine out of the local flora. Instead we have this trained “Engineer” reduced to scratching HELP out in the sand.

    Compare the incompetence of the engineering character portrayed by Tom Hanks to a real life 19th century engineer like George Whitehouse and his other engineers who planned and built from scratch the Kenya Uganda railroad putting in miles of track, designing trestles to cross rivers that had never been bridged, dams and generator plants to power communications and all that.

    Sometime in the 1930s Engineers began to specialize. So from then on you had electronic engineers, and civil engineers and no longer was an engineer expected to know something of all. And it continued with each class of engineer breaking down into new specialties and again the cross education and training across specialties is minimal. So by the time of the Tom Hanks movie, the software engineer he plays has no concept of what untapped potential survival tools lay inside the downed airplane.

    That’s one factor. Then you add the bulk of kids today are raised in cities where everything is handed to them. They know nothing of hunting, nothing of skinning game, nothing about salting or drying meat, nothing about raising crops, nothing about canning, nothing about working metal, forging, making alloys or tempering steel. Not 1 in 50 can pick out the penicillin mold from the other molds on a slice of moldy bread, much less have a clue of how to culture it. Give 100 HS graduates today a few U magnets, some fine wire and basic parts and see if any of them can come up with a generator or even a motor. Odds are not. Oh sure they can teach Grandma how to surf the Net, but fewer than 1:1,000 realizes that if you take a big pile of cow manure, stick a lightning rod into it, then come back after the thunderstorm and pick out any little white crystals you find you are halfway (okay 1/3) towards gunpowder. The education system has fallen flat on it’s face.

  68. Dear Americans,

    1) I would like to inform you that the only country who until now used nuclear weapons against living humans was you
    2) and I would like to inform you also, that you detonated over 1000 far bigger nuclear warheads in the distance of only about 100 miles from your Las Vegas – you can see the craters even today on your Google Earth
    3) your National Security Archive revealed on 22.XII.2015 the list of your nuclear targets in the part of world where I am living and also the intention to kill as many humans as possible – what is embarrassing because we always estimated that your targets will be military command, production, communication and transport centers and not civilians
    4) there is no other country in the whole world which is storing its nuclear weapons on foreign soil – even in potential dangerous countries like … find by yourself – I am sure you can operate your Internet and your Google
    5) because of you astronomical foreign debt (source: your you will be most probably the first country which will use nuclear weapons in future conflicts – simmply because of economical reasons
    6) wake up Neo – You are the villain :(

    Anyway – Happy New Year 2016 !

    1. Oman – He is correct, you do seem immature. A nuclear war will be fought with all of the savagery the war makers can add to it. Both sides will borrow from history. We now know what weather conditions can cause an inversion and a fire storm. We will seek such as targets. “your targets will be military command, production, communication and transport centers and not civilians” Whine.

      Clearly you did not bother to research the bombing campaigns of WW2 or look at the collateral damages of the Korean conflict. Take a look at the targets chosen by the US Army Air Force between Atom bomb one and Atom bomb 2. If it was more than six inches tall, it was a target. Did you not notice how Soviet Submarines sank ships full of refugees? How silly to expect the rules to magically change because now you (by your own words) live in a former target area.

      You have made presumptions about what is and isn’t a valid target. You also ignored many good targets. Medical centers, agricultural centers, mining centers, etc. If you are nuking communication centers, how is it you did not foresee that includes cell phones and their towers or the little radio station at the back of the firehouse? Did you not realize an attack on transportation may include bombing an oil yard or a harbor?

      What is a civilian but a soldier who has not yet picked up his gun?

    2. @ Oman, which I’m sure will never see this post.

      Dear Oman
      What do you think would have happened if Hitler’s Germany would have developed the Nuke first? remembering that it was German scientist that developed it here in the US. Would we all (the entire world you included) be speaking German or Japanese? The US used it twice (two cities), to stop a world war, what would Hitler have done with it?

      What will Iran, N-Korea, ISIS, you, do with it?


    3. Omen,
      Greetings.I am assuming that you may be Russian,though I may be wrong. Anyway, “We” know it is true. The majority of Americans have been put into a coma,a fantasy world created by the global mega-corporations, induced by television,other media,the intelligence agencies, the American Psychiatric Association in conjunction with the global pharmaceutical companies and an army of brainwashed minions pushing the propaganda. However, you seem too young to remember your own “communist” era,same thing. Totalitarianism is totalitarianism. Actually it’s the same players it has always been. Your country has been through the horrors of it and has emerged back into the sunlight,now it appears to be Americas’ turn to enter into the darkness. There are many good Americans who are somewhat awake who are trying to put the brakes on this downhill slide by waking others up, but it may be too late. We may need outside help to turn the tide and shake off these evil parasites. Make no mistake though,we will not exchange one form of tyranny for another.

  69. So many things to worry about like surviving in this continually changing economic environment. Nuclear war, if and when it happens, will be swift. You won’t hear any news as the government already knows that news of such and impending disaster would on result in immediate anarchy and be a waste of what will become precious resources. When they see the birds flying, they will first move to shield the government and military.

    If multiple launches are detected, the US will probably get ready to launch an immediate counterstrike. But it won’t just be the Soviets, it will be any other country that would be deemed qualified for neutralizing as a possible threat. ICBMs are fast, MIRVs are hard targets. You will know there is an issue if you live near some missile range.

    1. That’s a little ‘space cadetish’ in my opinion. First, there are no more Soviets so we won’t be targeting them.

      Second, if the missiles begin to fly the reason you won’t hear about that in the news is because the missiles are fast and there simply won’t be time to put it on the evening news before the missiles land.

      Third, what are the precious resources you imagine a panicked populace would consume? Walking Dead television show to the contrary, the gas in their cars only has a shelf life of about 6 months anyway, so let the panicked populace use it.

    1. @BE PERPARED!
      If we have an all out nuke war…… I’m thinking Mars :-(
      Seriously, if we ALL let go of everything we have, this planet is toast.

  70. I plan to build a ship to go to Andromeda, if I can ever get the drive to work. :)

  71. Nuclear War! It could happen with so many scenarios. Terrorist, they don’t care how effective a device is, as long as it causes death to Americans. I wish Hollywood would make a very descriptive and disturbing movie of the true reality of a nuclear confrontation. Remind everyone in the world there is no safe place and the destruction of our beautiful planet. Some great books on nuclear war stories I recommend are: Long Voyage back, Alas Babylon, One second after and follow up One year after, Ghost fleet, The last ship and The cave 3 books (ok but not as good as others).

  72. These include renewable liquid fuels, climate change, the financial system, and corrosion.

  73. My personal opinion is that the most likely scenario is a Third World country, such as Pakistan, detonating a single nuclear weapon against an iconic (rather than military) target.

    I would like to recommend a book, “The Transformation of War” by Martin Van Creveld. He thinks that nuclear weapons make large-scale war between superpowers non-viable and we will move to low-intensity conflict involving guerrilla armies, terrorists, and bandits that blurs distinctions between civilian and solder, individual crime and organized violence, terrorism and war.

  74. If it all goes to shit I probably would move to Fiji, Tasmania, the Maldives, or Africa These places have very little if any strategic value, and contrary to this map nowhere in the US would be safe… Greenland although not likely to get hit will most probably get hit with fallout, same goes for Switzerland, norway, and Ireland. Unlike most I feel that South America IS a target mainly due to Brazil, and Argentina.

  75. Most of these maps are from a different era when well armed adversaries had fleets of planes, subs and missiles ready and waiting. Currently, the world’s nuclear weapon posture is simply not up for a significant exchange. Russia’s capabilities are horrendously degraded and PRC hasn’t built enough mirvs. Furthermore, modern nuclear weapons are lower yield due to improved accuracy. An emp event is not particularly likely due to the acquisition of moving parts that are closely watched by everybody with basic intel. The most likely nuclear event for the continental USA is a low yield device stolen/liberated/purchased from Pakistan delivered by a truck painted in delivery trim parked downtown at a benign location.

  76. A bunch of people posting here did not live during the Cold War Era and they did not serve military service during this period. I did. I was a Tactical Intelligence Officer for T.A.C. People on here refer to opposing forces as enemies. We called them threats to our very existence. And once the pandora’s box was opened, it couldn’t be closed, meaning nuclear weaponry is here to stay until something more efficient and effective is created. With that being said, threats are not the economically dominant nations. It’s the terrorist nations that we have to worry about now that these nut jobs have access to nuclear material to be used in their ICBMs. North Korea wants to extort with their nuclear arsenal while Iran wants to bring in Armageddon! If either decide to provide nuclear weapons to small terrorist groups, this will raise the bar to a new level never known before. None of the world powers want that to ever occur, but it will happen. Kim Jong Il has already made nuclear threats which upsets the Far East. If Iran does this, it will cause a nuclear arms in the Middle east that will entail 7+ nations as well as Europe and Eurasia. Every sovereign nation is obligated to not allow this to occur. Enough said.

    1. I was and still here one of the most even scarier times was during the 1980s when there was NO communication between the U.S. and the soviet union and old ronnie just made matters worse by dubbing them `the evil empire’. who knows ? it may not even be russians or the u.s. doing battle that could end the world, it could be those goofy jokers at that cern haldron collider doing all of those `experiments’ and get us and the rest of the earth if not the entire solar system vacuumed into a `black hole’ that it created itself.

  77. Possible scenarios for nuclear attack:
    #1 – A single dirty bomb from the top of a large building in a big city.
    #2 – A single TN explosion by terrorists in a big city.
    #3 – 10, 20, maybe 30 containerized nuclear scuds delivered along our ocean
    and Great Lakes coasts by Iran and/or N. Korea.
    #4 – least likely, an all-out attack by the Brick and rogue states. But
    this serves no real purpose for them, and they know it will also
    destroy their own countries.

    1. @ David
      Something to remember, Allah/ISIS/NK/radicals do not care if one kills their own people, themselves, or “destroy their own countries” just that they kill the infidels at any cost.

  78. I disagree with this article.

    We have resources. We have intelligent people… and we’re going to nuke it all into oblivion? The doomsday clock is a masterful propaganda piece, that, I’ll admit. But an EMP attack alone would be far more effective. Keep resources intact, throw the people into chaos and swoop in like a hero.

    I’d also like to say I refuse to live in fear. If Russia wants to murder my four year old daughter and then justify it by saying that a dying generation did it first then… Putin really is a coward.

    Find a new hobby. Fear pushing is only for the lowest in the world.

  79. I firmly believe that the people who have visible bunkers, display gun power or have huge fences are actually attracting attention. The best way to not be a target is not make yourself one. Keep your shelter a secret, don’t buy huge amounts of supplies at once. Remember the three rules of survival I was taught by a military father, water, shelter, food source. Weapons can be acquired and sometimes primitive weapons are best especially the art of using a bow, and making one. Learn skills for hand to hand if it becomes necessary but hope it doesn’t.

    The worst enemy of all is panic, the next is invasion from within which is already occurring. Find land to build your safe place where you do not have to relocate. In the event of a disaster you won’t get there. Why take a chance.

    I know many feel they are prepared, but most have never shot a man or worse yet a woman pleading with you to help her and her children. America is a compassion based country we all need to remember no other country is. Therefore do not allow it to be a weakness. I’m not sure how, because I know unless my family was threatened I could not harm anyone.

    Learn to build a good hidden greenhouse, keep seeds, make sure you have a water source. Chickens are easily kept and provide protein in more than one way. Game hunting will not be safe if a nuclear event occurs. Stockpile in ways you do not rely on a generator. Water catch before the event, if at all possible find a place that has an underground stream where the water will remain safe. Do not share that information. Caves provide natural shelter. So do earthern built homes. Underground is best but remember you need a sunlight source, you need a way to maintain sanity being locked underground without natural light can be a killer.

    Think back to the way our ancestors survived.

    Also get rid of any addictions, smoking, drinking or drugs. Those things will lead you to be a danger to others and yourself. Find natural sources for pain relief, and diabetic issues and make sure you have them available for a long period of time. There will be no drug stores. If you need glasses to see, be sure you have multiple pairs, same with hearing aid batteries. If it almost impossible to stockpile medications so there will be a heavy blackmarket, don’t rely on meds if possible, learn yoga, meditation, breathing techniques, diet control. Rarely are vegetarians diabetics, but they do have issues with iron and protein levels, keep your diet balanced.

    Lastly but probably should be first; however, you believe, be in God, Buddha or trees make sure you have the comfort of a place to utilize those thoughts. If you have no beliefs, I firmly believe you will be among the first to go, having a higher power to believe in is comforting.
    If you are single, elderly or handicapped, find true friends and family that can be with you. Do not trust easily.

    1. LP, all pretty good advice but why the unnecessary shit in the last paragraph? You speak of things you do not know. How about you let the unbelievers speak for themselves. Perhaps they have a strong enough constitution to get through hardships without need of a crutch of “comfort” from an imaginary higher power. Perhaps they have a resolve and a will to live that has already been proven through past hardships.

      To those of you who keep asking “why would you want to live through a nuclear war?” Well, perhaps you wouldn’t if you believed in an afterlife (i was religious once). But from the perspective of someone who doesn’t, and sees inherent worth in humanity… someone has to at least try to continue on and rebuild. Perhaps enough knowledge can be preserved so that if there are any future humans, they can learn from our mistakes.

  80. Four years and four months since the first comment was posted, and in spite of all the doomsday predictions, none of us are glowing. Happy, happy, joy, joy!!!

    1. @No Name, You are exactly right – and we here at this blog do not wish for ‘the end of the world’ – although we prepare for it…

      1. Most of you guys haven’t thought about nuclear winter multiple nuclear detonations on the same place, there’s no way to fully prepare for a nuclear exchange. I think most of the world will be uninhabitable for at least a century and if some countries save a few nukes for future attacks.

        1. @ ClockWork
          Yep, you’re exactly correct, but guess what, if you don’t at least try than….. well give me the Silver Bullet right now, because I prep for a lot more than just dying or what you’re demonstrating.
          If they (whoever They are) are going to drop “multiple nuclear detonations” well then drop them about 100 feet above my head and get it over with….

  81. Well hey to all. I have been reading the majority of your post since. So with that said yup I believe it is way closer than we think. However I am starting to wonder if it might start out as a world black out. Cut all power sources. And I don’t believe our enemy is Russia per say nor China. It Iran and ISIS. Those bastards are infiltrating in on us as we speak. And we’re giving them flippen permission to do so. I am not prejudiced at all. But they only have one mission in life and that is convert or destroy anyone that does not believe as they do. Somehow i dont think putting calls out to allha I have my spot picked out to go. Actually 2 and the biggest things I need to survive for awhile. but the little things may be missed. I wont say I am not scared cause I am. I hate it’s all getting ready to happen most likely my life time or sooner even. What would be the little things. I can work quite a bit with nature to stay fairly healthy and clean.

  82. Question, what is there to stop a device hidden in a standard cargo container insulated in a way as to not give off radiation, that is then detonated some where on our coastline, or in a port ? Either hiddem in a giant cargo ship, or on a common small or mid sized fishing boat ? I have no idea really but I would guess we have some sort of radiation monitors far enough out on the coasts, but I have to believe the container could be insulated fairly easily. If someone like N. Korea can manage to use 7 or 8 devices in coordination eather in major ports, or just on the coasts they could do substantial damage. No need for them to develop an ICBM.

  83. Well i live in england and i think i’m in s,,t lol i have a air base 1 mile away from my house.
    That puts me in the crispy chicken zone of a 500kt flying barbecue.
    I have been reading all your posts and found it very interesting, i myself am getting
    the feeling that things are going sour and fast, I feel the us gov has put its people in a very dark place. if we are all drawn into a full all out nw the uk will end up a lifeless chunk of rock. This will not make me very happy and will certainly put a crimp in my day. After all the hard work i have put into my garden ahh. im afraid to say that this world is being held to ransom by a white house full of loons with there finger on the red button its twisted soul laughing at the american people and indeed at all the nations of the world. may god save all you true american’s and a swift death to the NWO
    ps plz take that box of large matches of them befor we all get burnt .

    1. @ sad-day

      You’ll not get a single argument from me on the state of the US politics and its stupidity. This new regime that’s trying to get in… is the Best the US has??? OMG!!!! Maybe we can trade with NK?
      I guess if a Nuke war starts, I’m hoping the first one hits my house, just get it over with. For this “Third Rock from the Sun” will be just that, a worthless rock.


      1. The sad thing about it all is in taking themselves out they take out our beautiful
        planet as well.Maybe if we pack all the seats of power with tnt and give a button to every other power, they could just blow up anyone they disagree with and leave all of us sane people alone.
        How the hell did humanity get to this

        1. well, i think that it’s in the advice that one of the Founding Fathers by the name of Thomas Jefferson gave the rest of us that has been ignored too many times over the past in his letter to william smith … ” god forbid we should ever be 20 years without such a rebellion. the people cannot be all, & always, well informed. the past which is wrong will be discontented in proportion to the importance of the facts they misconceive; if they remain quiet under such misconceptions it is a lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty.”.

  84. Oh i may have wondered of the thread so here is what to do if you fined yourself living under ground zero
    (1) Get yourself a deckchair
    (2) get yourself a bottle of scotch
    (3) get yourself the biggest cigar you can fined
    (4) sit on your deckchair under sed ground zero, light your cigar drink your scotch and say to yourself “well they said smoking would kill me WHO’S LAUGHING NOW ”
    (5) sit back and enjoy the show.

    1. @ sad-day

      HAHAHA, that’s GREAT idea sad-day, but can we make that a bottle of Bombay Samphire?


  85. For those who believe the propaganda that Russia would start a nuclear war with the USA… you need to review your reality.

    Everything that has been done over the past 20 years has had the US govt as the aggressor.

    Russia collapsed in the late 80s/early 90s. Then collapsed again in the 90s. They barely got their footing back in the mid-2000s.

    At no point in the above time frame could Russia do anything as they were bankrupt. While this was happening NATO was constantly encroaching on their borders with each new member state. Then the EU and NATO started pushing closer via their Ukraine strategy. At that point, Russia made a move to ensure their gas pipelines and buffer space was not further encroached. Then the USA pushed the EU to put sanctions on Russia.

    It is a strange world when the rapist (USA) is considered the victim.

    1. I agree with you the usa gov seem to want to wined up Russia for no reason well almost no reason. not being able to control there oil and not being able to install there precious bank may have something to do with it lol.

      1. ya probably have to talk to old rothschild and rockefeller about that.

  86. You know…after reading all these commentaries here, I had diarrhea. Thanks very much guys.

  87. I just have to say, that as scary as nuclear annihilation sounds, I just don’t see it happening. I do see them using nuclear weapons for a horrendous EMP. These people… Russia, China, Iran… all want us dead alright, but why make the land unusable? If they just do the EMP, the majority of the people will be dead within a month from starvation, no medication, others who will kill and rob them for what ever they have etc… If they just play the waiting game they can just come in and take over, meanwhile all the dead bodies will be creating the best soil known to man. If I was them that is what I would do. They hate us so much and when I say us I mean our government, that I think they will take their time and take the spoils. Why do you think they would be stupid about it. The United States is one of the most versatile places on earth. If I were Russia and the others I would make it my home. Just throwing it out there. Just my opinion.

  88. no nuclear weapons would have to be used to hamper any type of living conditions, just launch a EMP weapon that would be set to airburst in the atmosphere that that would cause more chaos than one could imagine.

    1. An EMP, or probably several WILL be detonated over America in the opening minutes of WWIII, but they will be swiftly followed by a MASSIVE SLBM nuclear barrage, followed by the even MORE MASSIVE ICBM barrage.
      NO NATION is going to light up an EMP, and that’s that.
      The USA would know who did it and the retribution from the Boomers
      would be mind-blowing.

      The first strike will not be to knock America down.
      It will be to OBLITERATE the USA.
      There will be NOTHING left for the Boomers that are left out there
      or the whole far-flung US Military to fight for OR
      come home to. It will ALL be gone.

      If Obama was still deep under the White House, he would declare
      unconditional surrender, if the military didn’t kill him

  89. I don’t think those maps are small enough. I can almost tell whether or not my town is in one.

  90. Took a closer look at the map for Oregon, they have the Medford area marked. There is nothing strategic in that location that I recall, with the exception of population.

    Boise Idaho the same, it must be for the population.

    1. antique collector: The Medford area has nearby national guard resources as well as an armory.

  91. The EMP from a nuke will will kill any thing electrical even most grounded things. It will kill most things even if they are not plugged in. 40 to 90 nukes would most likely bring down evey nuke in the air and kill it. WW3 is going to be a long and slow war and lets not forget 50% will most likely not work at all.

  92. The globalist are pushing for a war. A reduction in population by 99.5% that would leave 500 million, a manageable number, living just like the dark ages for everyone except those in the mega shelters. A hundred years from now the elitest will emerge to the world they want. The elites in control of all the world’s technology and resources. All that is needed at this point is for someone, anyone to push the first button and as they say, the rest will be history.

    1. Wayne g, you’re not suggesting something like a New World Order are you?! That would be crazy. Ha, the g is your middle initial isn’t it? You don’t fool me, I bet your surname begins with B…

  93. The actual Russian nuclear war plan holds nothing back on the assumption that even a limited exchange on the US an and Russian homeland will be impossible to contain.

    They throw everything they have in a two step, about 60% targeted aiming points, the balance 40% is more geometry providing blanket coverage over our major population centers.

    It is unlikely that any populated area would be unaffected.

  94. No matter where a nuclear device goes off..the effect will be catastrophic on society worldwide.. none of us will be unscathed.. I will be out in the yard trying to catch one on the way down to make sure I’m one of the instantly vaporized so I don’t have to live with the aftermath of such an event.

  95. Well…. this week I FINALLY started collecting goods in case of “The Emergency”. I can see the enemy first just knocking out our electronics which will throw us into utter chaos. I personally hope that it is all out nuclear so the I can just be vaporized. Very very few can survive the fallout of an EMT. We will be plunged into darkness. Few know how to start a fire, hunt and build shelter as you will swiftly have to get on your feet and flee your area because of mehamn. Limited communication, no fuel, no food or water…. but alas, I did start my stockpile of the essentials I guess just to make me feel a bit in control. Hope it will benefit another as they stumble upon my stash… focusing on simple foods, preventative supplies for infection/disease. There is no time to build fallout shelters now and quite frankly, who wants to emerge from one?

  96. One planet with multiple nations competing for the exact same natural resources. It’s only natural for conflict to arrive out of that situation. Unfortunately, the situation in Syria is about this at its core. The bravado and spin by the media in all nations muddy’s the water. Syria and Russia have a strong oil and gas relationship. Russia clearly fears the ouster of their ally and business parter Assad. If that were to happen Russia fears the US and NATO will take control of the resources they depend upon. This situation IS unfortunately one that could go Nuclear. Gorbachev recently said in Sep./Oct. 2016 that we are closer to Nuclear war now than we were during the Cold War. Right now, Russia feels backed into a corner. Regardless of what the US’ true intentions are, it’s a huge risk for them. Furthermore. You can never forget that Putin holds the US personally responsible for the demise of the USSR which he claims was the worst travesty of the 20th century! If he can continue forcing the US to spend money it doesn’t have on the Middle East by continued conflict, he may very well be able to accomplish forcing America to have its very own Dec. 26th 1992 moment with the collapse of our economy.

  97. In todays arsenal nukes are not to play with they come as big a 500 kilotons if not more i hope they can come to some kind of agreement and cooperate at destroying common treat like isis and other terrorist oragnizations. Believe me when i say this im saying it from a first hand experience by being bombarded and shelled for three years it was hell everyday being nuked im sorry wouldnt wish upon anyone i mean it havent experienced it God forbid anyone does.

  98. The U.S. is the only country that has been crazy enough to ever used nukes on a civilian population. With our current situation that the U.S. is fighting many wars in the middle East, and is currently trying to do another regime change like they did in Iraq, Libya, and Syria, I would hazard to guess if Clinton gets into the White House, she would be crazy enough to think she can win a nuclear confrontation with Russia.

  99. Just a daydream… The true enemy is the globalist, bankster and multinational corporations — not other nations!! USA/China and Russia should join forces to destroy these slave masters. Since the dark powers aren’t a nation, but the dark powers are in every major city, war to be completed door to door.

  100. dude, putin literally said that if hillary wins, he’s attacking. wake up people

  101. So… nuclear weapons. None of us on here would be having this conversation if Governments (or much of ‘humanity’) stopped acting like dicks towards each other.

    For example, what if no natural resource existed in the Middle East? Does anyone honestly believe Western Governments would have given a damn about Iraq invading Kuwait? Three guesses.

    Another example, some countries that invade others for natural resources/land they want, tend to try and have a good reason to do it, so they don’t look like the bad guys. However, it’s easier said than done. Or is it…

    Hmmm, let… me… think…

    Option 1. Friendly Country (depending on your opinion) helps some total MAD ASS to power in ‘soon to be invaded country’, feeds them drugs and leaves to simmer…

    Option 2. Friendly Country (depending on your opinion) recruit locals from ‘soon to be invaded country’ fund and train locals, get them to pick a fight. Then step in to ‘help’ the (soon to be deposed) Government. However, there is a slim 100% chance that the locals that were originally trained by Friendly Country (depending on your opinion) will probably turn on them at some point. Then FEAR will be struck into all as full scale military action is unavoidable. Friendly Country (depending on your opinion) will become great friends with the newly ‘elected’ Government of the New Friendly Country (depending on your opinion). We’ll help you, by taking those resources off your hands, at a reduced rate of course (cos we’re such great friends now) so we can make even more MONEY, then we’ll have even more POWER! Happy days!

    WAIT!! Don’t forget those pesky little locals still running around with weapons (who knows where they got those from!). Hmm, I’m sure we can use them somehow…

    Option 3. Friendly Country (depending on your opinion) doesn’t give a s*** and just invades, regardless of what the rest of the world says.

    Sound familiar? It should do, it’s been happening throughout human history. Invasion, either by stealth or force, for the good, or bad. We, in the UK were good at it. Then we got bad at it, ironically around the same time Germany became good at it. Then we made new friends and are good at it again. Don’t get me wrong, I’m certainly not comparing any historical individual to any current world leader(s). That would just be crazy!!

    So… nuclear weapons. I think we should disarm all of them, turn the warheads upside-down and use them as lovely flower pots. Or alternatively as a nice hat, if you have a really, really bad haircut…

    Cup of tea anyone….?

    1. yes please …i need one after replying to Zebra LOL and i can use few of that nice flower pots…

  102. Current Russian doctrine on nuclear weapons treats nukes like any other weapon. In the event of war, they will use them. Moreover, like us, Russian doctrine uses an “overwhelming force” model: Devastate the enemy with little regard for Russian casualties.

    Khrushchev had a famous exchange with Kennedy that went about like this:

    Kennedy: “A nuclear war between our two nations would be terrible. Millions of your people would die.”

    Khrushchev replied: “Well, then, it’s lucky we have so many people.”

    The real problem that no one seems to address is this: War plans on each side are scripted, formulary, and designed to follow the SIOP. They do this–we do that.

    When the human element is figured in, we have Putin–who thinks, like Khrushchev, that two or three million dead Soviet citizen, a few ruined cities, and a couple of years of nuclear winter can be survived by his nation–after all, he thinks, look what happened to Stalingrad and Leningrad in WWII: total devastation, lots of deaths, and a protracted winter; no problem, we’ll just rebuild.

    And with a little luck, he reasons, the US will not retaliate in the first crucial few minutes with a total response because, well, no non-military US president wants to see a total nuclear war.

    So we either hesitate or launch a limited initial “package” that the Soviets know is meant to send them the message: “OK, Putin, we’re responding, but we don’t want this thing to go total. So please stop with the nukes already.”

    By the time the mushroom clouds are fully formed over, perhaps, one or a half-dozen, Russian military targets, a number of our Boomers (ballistic missile subs) are dead as they come to launch depth, our carriers would be pre-targeted and overwhelmed and sunk, our overseas nuclear-capable bases would be the first to go, our allies in Europe have been warned that if the invoke Chapter 5 of NATO and launch at Russia, they will be tuned to cinders (so they back down and don’t launch), and Putin is in a position to strike a devastating follow-on attack to get our bomber bases, nuke storage sites, etc.

    B-1s, B-2s, and B-52’s would either be downed by area-spread air bursts or shot down by well-prepared Russian air defenses. Would we follow the script early on and launch a full retaliatory response? Don’t know. But even if we did, Russia is so vast an expanse that nation would likely dig out and be prosperous in a decade or two, while we, because of our comparatively smaller land mass, would be devastated beyond reasonable quick recovery.

    The US would have a big radiation sign on it that said: “Uninhabitable until 2116.” Europe and everyone but China would be under Russian domination, especially Europe. After the first decade or two, when Europe began to get a handle on radiation-induced problems from US fallout and a few years of hazy sunshine and cold winters, the world would readjust to the new world order.

    Unthinkable? Clearly not, since I, and lots of others, are thinking it. The question is: Is Putin thinking it?

    1. The one thing we and the USSR have going for us is lack of proximity, which can’t be said of North and South Korea, Pakistan and India, or Israel and the rest of the Middle East.

      Nuclear (or any other) war is far more likely when it can be triggered by a border conflict.

      We have yet to find an effective strategy to deter terrorists from triggering a nuke, “dirty bomb,” or an EMP. MADD won’t deter a terrorist who believes he (or she) is achieving immortality by committing a terrorist act, if he or she has no fear of death. That’s part of the reason the world feels more unstable now than it did during the Cold War when the conflict was between superpowers who recognized they had something to lose.

      1. Or whole countries whose leaders believe they can usher their entire population to heaven by getting them killed. Yes.

    2. Zebra…AMEN AMEN AMEN…plus Russian did not respect- do not respect -and will never respect any peace conventions… look at Krym … if they saying …’Well we have only 19 nuclear toys” they have 38 for sure…IF they saying…’we never ever attack u” BE READY WATCH YOUR BACK… You say to them “Chernobyl” they answer”What was in Chernobyl? och it was just malenkiy(small) leak nie pierizivay tak mnogo( do not worry that much)” but u have to be born their neighbor or have huge historical and political knowledge to be aware of it… unfortunately most Americans are not because believe or not…of blocking information by White House.And because we do not care about learning helpful language like German or Russian s- we can not read internet news in other languages… ZEBRA my deep respect for you.

  103. “Only the dead have seen the end of war”

    – Gen. Douglas MacArthur used the quote in a farewell address to cadets at the U.S. Military Academy at West Point, in 1962, attributing it to Plato. No one has found it in any of Plato’s dialogues so far.

  104. Discussions of EMP, Nuclear fallout, and nuclear winter are extremely frustrating for me. I really wish that people would read Cresson Kearney’s “Nuclear War Survival Skills”, originally published by the Oak Ridge National Laboratory, and at least the executive summary of the EMP Commission reports, available at empcommision dot org

    There are a huge number of misconceptions being passed around about these issues that are likely to get people dead if a nuclear situation ever comes to pass. If one were to read these two works, they would gain a useful grasp of our current understandings of EMP and nuclear war effects. If one has a burning scientific curiosity about EMP, the underlying reports on EMP are amazing. Don’t worry that you don’t understand everything in these reports. Nobody does. Just skip until you run into the next thing that you do understand. A person would need advanced degrees in physics, economics, business, and electrical engineering to hope to understand all of it.

    On the topic of nuclear winter, I will just give my observations and guesses:

    I have studied both US and soviet civil defense doctrine. My observation was that the soviets would have their people come out of the fallout shelters at twice the radiation level that the US recommended at the time.

    Before the Monticello Nuclear Generation plant was built in Minnesota in 1971, there was a symposium at the U of M, in which a number of people, including Joe Lieberman, before he was a Senator or vice presidential candidate, presented papers on the potential risks of the plant. The funny theme which seemed to run through the whole thing was that the soviet nuclear scientists considered radiation to be magnitudes more dangerous than the western scientists did. There were even a few joking remarks about this.

    When Reagan was president and the “Nuclear Freeze” demonstrations were going on in the US, Reagan claimed that they were all organized by the soviets. I laughed at this claim at the time. I stopped laughing years later when the retired soviet ambassador from that time was on TV saying that they had done just that.

    Carl Sagan worked with a team of soviet scientists starting in 1982 to come up with the “nuclear winter” hypothesis. The world detonated somewhere around 2400 nuclear devices during the cold war years. We didn’t see any signs of “nuclear winter”. I think that Sagan was an unwitting dupe, carrying out the propaganda agenda of the soviets. I don’t believe that a “nuclear winter” could ever happen. This work was also published before volcanologists figured out that the huge cooling effects of major volcanic eruptions were most likely caused by sulfuric acid in the stratosphere, and not by dust being “kicked up” into the atmosphere. This is supported by the observations of Benjamin Franklin in his letters to Thomas Jefferson of the yellow skies over France due to the Laki eruption in Iceland in 1783 and the subsequent freezing over of the Mississippi River at New Orleans and the ice floes in the Gulf of Mexico.

    It seems clear to me that the soviets/russians had and have two different standards as to the dangers of radiation – one for internal use and one for the rest of the world. I believe that they wanted to make the rest of the world very much afraid of nuclear weapons so that they would consider nuclear war unthinkable. They could not economically afford to keep up with the arms race that they were engaged in with the US. They also wanted the US to have less civil defense capability than the soviets, in case it did come to hot war. I believe that fortunately, Reagan was able to hold off domestic and foreign opposition to the weapons build up, and ultimately force the soviet union to spend themselves into bankruptcy, thereby winning the cold war without any nuclear weapons being exchanged in battle.

    Peter Pry perplexed a pack of pixelled preppers.

    1. I remember driving by the prototype Monticello Nuclear Generation plant countless times as a child (en route from Minneapolis up to Royalton, MN, to visit my grandmother). First time I’ve ever seen anyone mention it. When was it dismantled, do you know?

  105. Holy cow people! It does not matter who starts what or where it starts? There are no “winners” in a nuclear war!! If there is a nuclear war….we are all dead regardless of prepping, bomb shelters, where you live, safe zones on the map, retaliation this retaliation that etc. Unless you have stockpiled years worth of food and have a sanitation/air filtration system the size of New York, well, you are SOL. Besides, even if you did live through a nuclear blast, why would you want too and what would be left when you came out of your shelter? You, your wife and your kids!! Sounds lovely so far. Are your kids going to breed and repopulate the earth are you going to make more children? Um, don’t think so. There will be no Starbucks to run to, no Burger King, no Costco, no hospitals, no neighbors, no wildlife, no plants…..only cockroaches and my grandma (she’s 92 and I have always joked about her and the cockroaches surviving a nuclear war. She’s a tough old gal!). Let’s say you did come crawling out of your shelter into the nothingness that used to be planet Earth…you would most likely die in a few months from radiation poisoning and I am sure that is not a pleasant way to go. You would be wishing that nuke landed on top of your head as you would have been instantly vaporized instead of suffering from an agonizing and painful death. Now I am no expert, but really, all you have to do is watch a little bit of the history channel on nuclear bombs….unfortunately MANY people have to experience stuff like this first hand to get a really good taste of what happens. Hell, most people aren’t prepared if the power goes out for a few hours and god forbid a natural disaster hits….like large scale flooding, tsunamis, earthquakes etc. They expect that “help will be on the way” and it usually is! As a whole, the human race is ill prepared for any kind of disaster let alone a nuclear war where no one is going to swoop in and save your ass.

    1. I hate to burst your bubble, but many more people will survive a nuclear exchange than wanted to. Many, many of them will not be prepared for their survival.

      The real danger is not radiation, but unexploded fissile material. Only some of the uranium, plutonium, or other nuclear explosive, will explode. The rest will be scattered by the blast. Those hit by the blast almost certainly have some of the unexploded metals blasted into their bodies. The unexploded metals are highly toxic, and ingesting even only a tiny amount is enough to cause diseases, cancers and death. Many of those who are irradiated, as long as the radiation is below burning levels, but manage to avoid contamination, live long and healthy lives.

      The information above is taken from experiences of survivors in Hiroshima, Nagasaki, and other nuclear accidents and inadvertent exposure to radiation.

    2. when i am pretty ready for most of natural disasters except breaking Mother Earth on half…i cannot afford to build a shelter for me and my kid…i am now barely surviving lol so…hell with bombs radiation ect… lol bunch of sleeping pills for me and my daughter will solve our surviving problem( and shortes time in the very long line to Gate of Heaven) when i get a message
      ” we are under nuclear attack….go to your shelter. God Bless America”shshshshshshshshs

      1. oh i did not mention why it will be so long line to the Gates of Heaven…after a message it will be only shshshshshshshs in all face book no cell phones…all teens just die right a way not being able to use their precious toys lol

  106. May our irradiated descendants forgive us for seeing this coming and not removing “The Fellowship” administration instantly.
    -A Historian

  107. Iran has no missiles capable of reaching the US. Also, Iran has no nuclear weapons program and never has, except when they were afraid Saddam had one at which time they had a “feasibility study”. They’ve never had a development and deployment program.

    Anything you read in the mainstream media to the contrary is complete BS. Since Saddam is gone and Iraq is run by Shia political parties, Iran has no interest in nuclear weapons and no use case for them, and they’ve repeatedly acknowledged that.

    North Korea, as far as anyone knows, has no nuclear weapons made small enough to fit in a ballistic missile warhead. They might have them some day, but that’s not now.

    More importantly, NK wouldn’t initiate a first strike on anyone with nukes because it would mean they would be obliterated by a US counterstrike (or even a Chinese counterstrike, although that is less likely.)

    The real threat of North Korea is that some US President moron might launch an attack on its nuclear facilities which might result in a full-scale war with the US. That would, according to Pentagon war games, result in 50,000 US casualties in the first ninety days, with a potential for 250,000 US casualties before the war ended, and would also involve at least a million civilian dead on both sides of the border.

    Not to mention that China will not accept US military bases in a unified Korea – which we all know the US will do if it wins a war with North Korea. Which means China is likely to enter the war on NK’s side as it did in the first Korean War. And China DOES have ICBM’s with at least 200 warheads which can hit the mainland US.

    President Clinton negotiated an Agreed Framework which shuttered the NK nuclear program – until he reneged on the agreement, as did Bush. The proper course of action instead of sending aircraft carriers and subs to Korea is to resurrect the Agreed Framework and get NK to stop its nuclear weapons program.

    The real threat of nuclear war comes from the US moronic attempts to confront Russia over Syria, Ukraine and the Baltics (which, BTW, Russia has absolutely no interest in.) And no, Russia did not “seize Crimea” – they defended it against Ukrainian neo-Nazis and subsequently Crimea voted overwhelmingly to rejoin Russia – where they had been for centuries until the 1950’s.

    Putin has no interest whatsoever in resurrecting the Soviet Union, regardless, again, of what you may have read in the mainstream media – or various right-wing blogs.

    1. “Putin has no interest whatsoever in resurrecting the Soviet Union, regardless, again, of what you may have read in the mainstream media – or various right-wing blogs.” – This didn’t age so well.

      1. I’m coming across a lot of comments on here that haven’t aged well. Lol

  108. Richard Steven Hack,

    Wow! Your passionate post really enlightened me as to the real enemy to the U.S. The only salvation for our country is to become a socialist-communist-anarchist soviet satellite. Please calm yourself, reality sets in at about 29-30 (earlier if Mom kicks you out).

    Please excuse me now as I’ve got responsibilities in the real world that need tending to.

    I apologize Ken, if I stepped out of bounds.

  109. All Russia has to do is shut down cell phone coverage and America would cry itself to death. The first to go would be anyone 12-25 years of age.

  110. Why would you attack missile silos? They would be gone before your missiles got there. The map should be reviewed with this in mind.

  111. Jade helm was a practise run to round up US citizens and place them in camps. Don’t worry about
    chinese or russian boots on the ground as it is too far and too costly to transport that many troops
    to the US. Same goes for us invading either of those countries. Worry more about your own butt as the federal gov. has no intentions of helping the regular folks on the ground. They already have hardened bunkers for themselves and their families. Likewise the military. Its called COG or continuation of government. Best to start on a shelter now, stock food, geiger counter, and potassium iodide and medicines. Most important of all stock a variety of seeds. I suggest bok choi and beets as they are easy to grow and healthy. You will need drinking water, some kind of toilet facility and sanitation facility as well and a way to bring in scrubbed air. Primitive hunting implements since eventually there will be no more ammo. Trading goods like salt, sugar, flour and coffee or booze are a good idea.

  112. Interesting that most of those survival zone maps don’t look to take into account the one 100 mile area where a) more than one warhead (more than likely several) would likely target because of the command control structure and number of military installations and b) the same area has a large number of warheads stationed. As I live in that area, and grew up with “bend over and kiss your ass goodbye” drills to dive under school desks during the Cold War (wow, a school desk is such great protection against radiation) I’ll refrain from giving anyone on the other side who isn’t smart enough to figure it out themselves any ideas, but to a note for those of you who are in the US and wondering, if you have more military bases (the ones they do let you know about) than fingers on one hand in 100 mile radius, you are probably not in the optimal survival zone.

    1. I can only laugh regarding the advice that was given back then… “Get under the desk”. I suppose I don’t need to dig that bomb shelter – all I need is an old school desk ;)

    2. To clear up a misconception, your desk is protection from flying glass. Despite a surprisingly *small* bump in radiation induce cancers and other medical issues, most Japanese victims lived most of a normal life span! Most of the casualties that weren’t burned, crushed, suffocated or killed outright by flash radiation actually died from flying shards of broken glass blown out by the pressure wave. Most people will have a few seconds after the brilliant flash to “duck and cover”. They will then have several minutes to find shelter from falling debris, and a fair amount of time to seal up the building against airborne fallout. A day or so later, the isotopic half-life will have reduced airborne and ground fallout radiation levels to less than leathal levels.
      We all need to go back and study those Civil Defense survival materials and understand what really happens in a target area, because it’s based on the studies of Hiroshima, Nagasaki and the Marshall Islands. If this can’t save you, nothing but the afterlife will.

      1. The Japanese were hit with lower volume nuclear devices. However, you are right in a way. The sirens and drills are ‘Air Raid Drills’ which means they may be using conventional bombs or you are simply close enough to ground zero for the shockwave to shatter glass (up to 550mi at 100mt iirc). Ofc after the glass shatters, everyone should be evacuated to shelters etc. Still, if a modern ICBM 25-50mt hit within 1.5 miles of you, you WILL die without a fallout shelter. IF detonation is within 1/16mi. of the surface, fallout shelters fail in a 1/2+mi radius if within xFt of the surface x radius from absolute zero. Within 5 miles, you have a 90%+ chance of mortality if not fully sheltered and protected, underwater included, rad exposure is approx 500-750. Mind you, heavily built concrete structures within 6.5-10 miles will collapse, and most other buildings collapse over 15 miles out, all due to pressure change. Exposure to fallout will kill you VERY fast right after detonation depending on wind-speed and proximity to detonation. Essentially, you need a fallout shelter or other reasonable substitute, quickly. Within 50-75 miles downwind (more if stronger winds), even in a partially sealed basement, you could have serious rad exposure and die within 15-90 days. Just hope to god that no-one is using fusion based triggers and U-238 tampers. Pure fusion devices are possible now, but they have less overall kill potential, which is one of the purposes of WMDs. However, a hybrid fusion-fission WMD is truly the apex of human evil at our current level of technology. Really, its not that simple. I am a physicist, The technology exists to create WMDs that would shake the world. I truly believe that only china, russia, india, and the US can feasibly do so now or soon, but there’s no way to test the device. There is no location on earth that can contain the destructive force that these post-modern devices can yield. The detonation alone, even completely contained underground, would change our world in ways we cannot contain. On the surface, it would be devastating, even if detonated in the middle of the ocean, away from every island chain. That is why I continue my research, for self preservation (and knowledge of human capacity). I do not build or promote these devices in any way. The science however, can lead us to a better future.

        Note- The chance of Iran or North Korea launching a large salvo of nuclear based ICBMs is much higher than Russia ever was. There is a significant lack of welfare associated with both regimes (Iran being more complicated). The devices will be lower in volume, due to scarcity of uranium, difficulty extracting, and the ability to process it. In 5-10 years, however, these attributes will change. It seems that the US has put itself in a position that no country would ever like to find itself. The full defense of a 50 ICBM strike is extensively difficult. Any mainland hit from even a 25mt device is simply devastating. Infrastructure can be crippled by only 5 of so detonations. That is why our missile defense is critical.

        I’m not here to worry anyone, I am here to inform. I do not mean to say that a nuclear strike or detonation is a certain fact at this time. I only want to inform people of the possibilities. I do not favor ignorance.

        On the bright side. Fusion Technologies can lead to advanced matter transmutation. They have in the past, although it is currently very inefficient. Mind you, they made gold. All foodstuffs and clothing have far less metal, and typically lighter ones. Mastery of Fusion technology can lead to devices that can create anything. Like a wheel of cheese, from a lump of semi-radioactive waste. Or a can of soda, from a bucket of sand. All 100% safe to ingest, in fact, safer and less radioactive than current products. I hope you all live well.

  113. Sorry, I did not mean to undermine the advice you had given mystic, you are quite correct. I did give a semi-correct disposition of the effects of modern nuclear devices. Hopefully, no additional study should be required beyond the basic reading of my post for most people. It is not completely correct, The numbers are not absolute at all. Not even in an ideal detonation of a 25mt device on a plain at same sea level for 250mi. I mixed 25-50mt statistics with 100mt ones to help indicate the possibilities. Typical WMDs from NK/Iran would be in the 25-50mt range. There is a lot more information that people need to research, I am not at liberty to divulge that information here and now due to the fact that it may have a negative effect on our actual ability to defend ourselves. I ask that all good people who read this should perform their own due diligence.

  114. There are some very ignorant people making comments on this site, so don’t expect a rational forum here. The people who are in control of nuclear arsenals hold 7 billion people hostage to the threat of totally destroying the eco-system of the earth. There are probably less than 2000 people on this earth who control whether the 7 billion live or die, these are the enemy of the world. There are still foolish individuals who think that their skin color gives them a special blessing or something against the perils as the result of nuclear destruction; your skin, teeth and hair will roll off your body just like anyone else. The same people making these caveman mentality comments were the same idiots who were proudly proclaiming, “nuke’em” when this country was the only one with them. Yes, and when the bombs start falling Alaska would be a good place for it to start.

  115. The president–by himself–cannot order a nuclear strike on any country or target. Nuclear weapons are governed by the “two-man” rule at all levels, including the presidential level. The president must act in concert with the secretary of defense to launch nuclear weapons. Read “National Command Authority” in Wikipedia for more information.

  116. I think MAD is highly unlikely anymore. I mean the reason why we had to worry was that in the past it was warring ideologies. That’s not really the case anymore with the major powers. Russia and China are dictatorships through and through now and dictators can’t risk loosing their sources of power which are the people. Not to mention that neither Russia or China is part of a network of alliances anymore.

    Both of them would be sending nukes out to anyone they had a problem with if the shit hit the fan. I think nukes would hit every major population center in the world I mean look at Russia they have enough nukes to hit every major city, small City and big ass town in the world and so do we. So I think our entire nation getting turned to glass is less likely now than it was 30 years ago. Then you have China that would probably hit a few key spots in America attacking out financial power base completing the destruction initiated by the Russians. Then they would hit everyone else they have a problem with like most of Africa. I could see the Brits and the French nukeing each other, with India and Pakistan doing the same Iran and noko would try to join the party but noko would really be able to only do so much damage with their limited arsenal, and Iran would most likely see this as their chance to get away with turning is real to ashes and knocking out Saudi Arabia.

    What is more likely I think would be upper atmospheric detonations to mess with out infrastructure and then an invasion into what ever the main target really is. But the two greatest threats to our safety when it comes to MAD are more or less dependent on us now. China can’t survive without our trade making up for their deficiencies else wear and Russia is being held together with duct tape. North Korea would realistically be more concerned with conquering soko and Iran as mentioned above has two closer more likely targets it would rather deal with. What I see as more likely is one country trying to do something to keep us out of a fight rather than get us embroiled in one. I mean shit if the worse that happens an emp most Americans would be happy licking our wounds and we would be so damaged to the point where we either couldn’t retaliate in any way other than ending the world, and out troops would be to valuable fighting to keep America sane.

    1. Hi Tig

      I think mutually assured destruction is as effective a deterrent as ever. However, over the decades the form has evolved. The idea of carpet-nuking nations and destroying not only their populations but their utility for the future began to fall out of favor, if not out of the rhetoric, in the late 50s/early 60s with the development of the neutron bomb. The neutron bomb is no longer held by the U. S., according to public sources. Now the rhetoric has moved on to targeted EMP and cyber attacks.

      While most state actors are pragmatists these days, there are still demented ideologues out there. Iran, North Korea, and uber-socialist Venezuela come to mind. While EMP requires significant funding and very sophisticated components, cyber weapons are cheap, the playthings of disgruntled youth. Non-state ideological actors include al-Queda in its myriad forms, IS (ISIS), and their dozen cousins around the globe – all made up predominantly by unhappy young men and led by crazies who promise retribution for perceived slights and rewards thereafter.

      Why would another nation be crazy enough to attack the U.S.? Because together the United States and Canada have 5% of the world’s population and 40% of the fresh water. China, by contrast, has 20% of the people and just 7% of the water, most of it badly polluted. Canada and the U.S. respectively have 13 and 5 times the arable land per capita than China does. Fresh water and land. And because some nations look well past the immediate future when making plans.

      The DOD has been hardening its critical infrastructure for the past ten years. A response to an EMP or a catastrophic cyber attack appears to be well within its capabilities. DJT’s threat of “fire and fury” also seems to have slowed some of the rhetoric.

  117. Here is the psychology that can lead to nuclear war.
    1) US convinces itself that enemies will back down when threatened and are basically cowards. All that is needed is a resolute show of force.
    2) Misunderstanding of vital interest of the other side. Like Stepping into Crimea
    and Ukraine, and expecting Russia to cave. — They Won’t behave as expected by item 1.

  118. let me clear up something for all the ignorant ones, a confirmed launch code is matched to the code that every submarine, sac, missile silo and mobile ground launch and air base. it is only the authority to launch. now, every command is also given instructions that in the event that all communications are lost, then the worst is assumed and then authority to launch is a given fact.

    the only thing that prevents the launch are the persons in direct control of their weapons and their launch packages. usually 2-3 persons must be in full agreement to commit to launch. Not all packages are designed for full immediate launch. some are partial, some delayed for second and third wave, some are first strike and then a wait and see for a second launch.

    the only thing that prevents a confirmed launch code to go into effect is that communications are fully functional and the cancel code is authenticated and then the clock stops and Devcon 2 is initiated where strike packages are able to be restarted with in one hour, Devcon one is all weapons are ready to launch within 15 minuets

    the reason for all of the above is that if all branches of government are lost,
    and no one available to take control, then the worst is assumed and the gears go to full throttle.

    I have seen this country personally go to Devcon One four times, the last one that i was a part of was canceled with only 15 seconds to spare to stop an all out launch. It was one of the reasons why I left.

    And Trump was not president either. Take your pick, democrat or republican president, both did it.

    1. dragonslayer,

      At risk of being called ignorant, what the heck is deVcon? Familiar with defcon, never heard of devcon. Is that some super secret “eyes only” designation? Or was it a typo?

    2. Thanks for your insight into the inner workings of “go”, “no-go” for launch. Interesting. I had no idea we were that close (15 seconds to spare). Wow.

  119. The US is the strongest country with an immense number of nw
    enough to destroy the world thousands of times.
    Yet it says working to prevent a nuclear attack on the US.
    Stop the bs. After attacking China/Russia and NK with nm,do you expect those countries to be passive and roll over. They will retaliate with nw.
    That’s why Trump despite all the bluster didn’t attack NK because the price for destroying NK will be unacceptable.
    With China and Russia it will be better not talk about it.
    The best is live in peace and not use nw. But that’s unacceprable to the hawks in the US.
    The American people must get rid of the hawks to get peace .Otherwise the US will be mire in endless wars

  120. in my opinion, cities themselves will not be targeted simply because of population. yes, major cities do tend to have some priority targets such as military installations, international airports, and communication hubs around them. sure, they may nuke DFW airport, Love Field, Alliance airport and the joint Reserve Base, but they aren’t gonna rain nukes down on the DFW metroplex just to make sure they kill all 8 million of us. that wont be their priority…..
    the first strike will solely be thrown at our counter strike and command/control capability. all the silos will have multiple warheads targeted and will all be ground detonations.
    nuclear storage facilities will be hit
    all military command centers and radar stations up in Alaska and Canada.
    any SAC Airbases or Civilian airports that are large enough to land/takeoff/service any surviving SAC Bombers.
    submarine bases.

    a secondary wave would then hit secondary military bases and command control targets such as capitals of states and washington DC, or our ability to wage a continuing war by taking out financial centers, ports, and military/aircraft manufacturing plants.
    taking out population centers, hitting nuclear plants and the power grid or laying waste to every industrial area just isn’t a logical priority. and its not just us they will have to deal with. nato sites will need to be hit as well
    they will also have to leave enough missiles to fend off china and any other nuclear power. im not sure many know this, but china and Russia are not allies or even friends, and Russia will suffer devastating calamity, something china or even india may find tempting to exploit.

  121. In the not distant future,the Taiwan problem will have to be settled once and for all. Taiwan can be independent if the US stands behind risking ww3.No doubt the US can prevail and destroy China but suffering unacceptable destruction.
    As China gets more powerful and has more nw,future US leaders will have to ask themselves whether it is worth getting dozens of US cities destroyed to preserve Taiwans status.
    This is not appeasement if the US concedes the Chinese their demand.O f course many US elite leaders accustomed to other nations deferring may not be happy.All good things must come to an end.

  122. During the cold war,US planned to destroy every town and city in the
    Communist world.The US outgunned the Soviet Union by a massive no
    in nm.
    Little did these policy makers think of the return fire. The Soviets wont be passive. They would destroy Europe and maybe some parts of the US.
    Since then you can bet even with the missile shield,the US wont be 100% immune . Putin and the PLA will make sure the US will have to absorb punishing and massive damage if the US tries to destroy them.
    Best live in peace but the mic wont be making money.
    Hence the constant provocation and irritation continues.
    There will be winners in ww3. Make no mistake. THaad aint going to save
    the US.

  123. The US has enough nm to destroy the world many time. Yet it aint satisfied.Its embarking a on trillion dollar nm upgrade.
    Now if the US by its actions is deemed hostile,can you blame the PRC and Russia for not taking the necessary action to shore up their countrys’ defence?
    This is deemed aggressive and a threat to world peace. Stop the bull shit.
    The US cannot have it both ways/In a perfect world,the Pentagon wants 100% security when attacking these 2 countries.
    Until the American public wise up to the politicians who have been conning them,expect ww3.Tell these elected officials not to hide in bunkers when the US launches nuclear weapons.
    There is another way. Live inpeace.

  124. I refer to tye, about cities. China is outgunned by the US in nm.Assuming US can destroy China,the PLA will make sure the biggest cities all over US will
    be vaporized. They have the capability. Even if the missile shield can limit some of the destruction,it will still be immense.
    US policy makers will have to come with other means short of nuclear war to
    cope with Russia and China.A zero sum game aint acceptable to the 2 countries.
    A one sized glove wont be the solution. Get the best brain in the US to work out how to deal with the 2 giants.
    A trade off is necessary otherwise there will be war.
    As one American said make sure policy makers and their off spring serve in the front line ie Poland and Taiwan Straits. No soldier is to be allowed a transfer in wartime

  125. What are some good targets in Indiana? I want to be at ground zero when they hit.

    1. they are more interested in NYC or D.C and maybe, maybe L.A (full of liberated hippies ) not that i mind being an independent, but I digress. So move to one of those cities guaranteed you would be bacon in 1 microsecond lol .

  126. It appears our new administration believes “nukes are not our enemies worst option” to strike against us, which is worrying. Anyone have a good idea of what this means? Judging by how corrupt the biden regime is, my first hunch is that they will detonate a nuclear weapon(s) on the own American people and blame it on Russia to get us fully engaged in war with them. Curious if anyone else has other hypothesis on this new nuclear threat that has allegedly emerged 3 months in to the biden regime.

    It was a nice four years of peace under Trump, back to being highly vigilant again..

    1. Considering the US government backed the World Trade Center attacks, it wouldn’t surprise me if they detonated a precision nuclear strike to further their schemes. The hawks certainly got what they wanted by supporting the conflict in Ukraine. Billions of dollars in weapons sent to Ukraine and just think of the money to be made in the clean-up effort. Anyone remember Haliburton?

  127. Let’s hope there are at least a few people who are in charge who are not that stupid who will “push the button”. They and all of us know pretty much if that ever happened, it would surely be the end of us. If not immediately, time will do the rest. You know how long it would take for food chain to collapse? Less than a year. Well, that’s about how long we would have left as a species on this planet.
    Ask yourself one question about a post nuclear exchange: Who in the right mind would want to “move in” afterwards?
    For that matter, who would be left who isn’t already being shadowed by death?
    We don’t need a nuclear exchange to thin out the world population. We’re all doing it foolishly and well enough on our own. Call it “civilization” and it will fall as it always has. History itself shows this in its repetition if you only take the time to look at it. The present turmoil is a sure sign of it and it is only going to get worse.
    Our most pressing problem is population and believe it or not, we’re at the root of all the problems and nature will take care of that for us for the simple fact that we cannot control it. We are subject to it and there is nothing we can do to stop it.
    Given enough time without nuclear intervention (barring an E.L.E. such as a major impact), we will thin out to just over a hundred thousand left of us worldwide. (If we’re fortunate). But guess what? We’ll start doing it to ourselves all over again unless we wise up.

    1. exactly !! When I see it dropping i will raise my two middle fingers at it and yell Fk you Putin !!

  128. I’d love to see an organized list of targets by state. Does this exist?

  129. On the brink of WWIII. Russia is about to invade Ukraine, China about to move on Taiwan and the rest of the South China Sea. I see in this intellectual wrestling match as to how we die. It wont be a full strike against us. It wont be China or the Russian forces. What if say North Korea strikes us in the West Pacific. Targeting Japan, Diego Garcia, Most Island bases, to include the Hawaiian islands and any Navel fleets in the Pacific. And the South Korean forces would be busy with the one million N. Korean soldiers streaming into the south. They would survive the retaliatory strike by U.S. forces. At the same time hitting the U.S. mainland is hit with a satellite based EMP. What would we do? Hit China? They didn’t attack us, North Korea did, Most defiantly North Korea. But what then? With the mainlands electrical grid down, we would be hard pressed to be able to coordinate the military in our own back yard. Within three months massive riots and starvation will hit the major cities. China could just say they are moving onto those targeted locations under the flag of the U.N. to assist with humanitarian aid. What could we do about that? Nothing but, say thank you China, for your charity and caring for human life. We would not be able to bring any aid from the Atlantic theater quick enough. China operates the Panama canal. They could just shut it down. Our troops in Europe would be concerned with Russia going to the Coastline of Norway. Whats the NATO forces going to do about it, Not much without the U.S. involved. The E.U. would be suing for peace and India just got bought off by the Russians and there Military hardware. At the same time what if Turkey double crossed us and invaded into Syria and the middle east. Not much we could do there ether. The only thing we could do is try and not tear ourselves apart, but which will probably happen. Divided we will fall.

    1. Gene:
      I agree with nyscout 100% on your comment, a very well thought out “What/If” scenario indeed.
      One thing I would caution about;
      “Within three months massive riots and starvation will hit the major cities”
      I do believe that it would take nowhere near 3 months for the Continental US to fall into complete ciaos, more like 3 weeks if that, look at what happened to the Supply Chain/Stores last year with this Pandemic thing going on, imagine no power at all.
      An EMP Strike and total Grid Down aka “Lights Out” would bring untold and unimaginable destruction to the US. China nor Russia or anyone else for that matter would have no need to invade the US, for there would be not much left after that 3 months you speak of all alone one year.

    2. Gene, i hate to break it to ya, but the department of the state spent 5 BILLION to bring a pro-American government to power in Ukraine back in 2014 and took a blind eye on all the atrocities, corruption, and other crimes perpetrated by those guys. Because they were “against Russia” and it justified every tortured and murdered Ukrainian in opposition to their policies and the roaming neo-nazis. After that, Ukraine rebuilds its army (into the 3rd LARGEST IN EUROPE after Russia and Turkey) while robbing its citizens of education, medical help, decent retirement paycheck and so on. Once done, the POOREST country in Europe (Ukraine that is) president openly stated at the Munich security conference back in 2021 that Ukraine is about to revive Nuclear program (they already had ballistic missiles). And… “great humanitarian” Putin took the dawn bate..

      So does it justify all the madness? – Not to me. War is war: the tragedy of the living and the stink of the corpses.
      Should this be resolved peacefully? – Absolutely, but neither of the sides has the interest of the Ukrainians in mind (definitely not the Ukrainian regime as after all Putin’s demands weren’t that crazy VS the tragedy unfolding now).
      My home country needs peace, but they get – more firearms and munitions to kill “those damn russians” :-(

  130. Gene,
    this is the scenario that i have been prepping for, for 30 yrs, the worse case.
    i’m still not their yet but i’m working on it. i’m not sure that it is even possible to survive that kind of thing. but we have to try.
    if we could survive that situation, there may be hope for us. and to “not tear ourselves apart” is the key phrase.
    it was a very, very good post and very well said, thank you so much

    1. I gotta say, worrying about the total annihilation of the human race is a fool’s errand. I hate to break it to you, but everyone perishes. To me, the question is, “do I want to live 10 more years knowing every year of my life was approached from a position that you need to fixate what time and resources you have on surviving those additional ten years, or do I want to spend your time and resources rejoicing in your existence and thereby celebrating all dimensions of life on earth?”.

      You decide. It’s your life. But remember, while you are storing up potassium pills and building bunkers and hazmat suits, I’ll be considering my neighbor’s needs, helping who I can, working, spending my time on music theory and analysis of great pieces of literature, enjoying nature, taking in what I can and giving back what I can.

      It’s all temporary folks.

      Have any of you ever listened to Bill Hicks? One would do well to become acquainted with his viewpoint on life.

  131. From the book of Michael Riordan…

    (based upon studies of the RAND corporation, McNamara, Edward Teller, John Forbes Nash, etc.)

    The purposes of a FIRST NUCLEAR STRIKE are the following: (considering that it is waste of
    nukes using too many nuclear warheads to destroy ONE WARHEAD, or a few ones)

    1) Destroy the nuclear capability of the enemy and rapid nuclear retaliation (destroying airbases,
    military harbors, but… ICBMs, TELs, SLBM decentralized depots of nukes are a hard target)

    1.1.) AIRBASES are the easiest target, airplanes in bases are very vulnerable and flammable.

    1.2.) HARBORS and SUB-PENS… really an easy target, and possible pre-positioning of nukes.

    NEWPORT VIRGINIA; BANGOR; DETROIT (Lima modification center); PHOENIX (Raytheon); etc.

    1.4.) In order to AVOID NUCLEAR WINTER… a massive use of nukes must be avoided. So NO
    attack against ICBMs an NO attack with ICBMs will be done (keep as a menace and reserve).

    1.5.) Probable attack with STEALTH CRUISE MISSILES.

    2.) Attack against OIL REFINERIES (easy very big target, highly flammable… lack of fuel brings
    to a total paralysis of the enemy economy and war effort. Ships, tanks, airplanes all stopping).

    3.) Attack against NORAD & WASHINGTON should be avoided, in order not to precipitate a

    4.) Some minor HARBORS could be attacked. In order to stop any possible deployment.

    5.) Demoralize the enemy with a symbolic target destruction? Dangerous because also
    the enemy could do the same.

    Conclusion: using nuclear weapons against a massive super-power like USA or RUSSIA
    is always irrational, because too many of their warheads will survive. Giving to the panicked
    victim the credit of being rational is irrational. The desire for revenge will be overwhelming.

  132. Even a limited exchange say 100 to 200 warheads going off is enough to wiped everyone out. Radiation fallout around the world will kill everyone in time along with plants and wildlife. The term coined was M.A.D.

    These governments know what the real effects really would be but will never tell you because it would scare the hell out of everyone and lose there value a weapon.

    Sure hide in a bunker for how many years and then what come out to a dead world where even the plant life is gone?

    A pretty good movie to watch is: On The Beach from 1959 with Gregory Peck for all those who think you can survive.

    1. no, 100 to 200 warheads is not enough. Over 2000 have already been exploded since 1945. Chernobyl and Fukushima meltdowns both spread more radiation than nuclear weapons do. “On The Beach” is fear propaganda. They didn’t know too much about it back then. Now, the biggest risk and wild card is nuclear winter, and we do not know how bad that will be, or for how long. Most people would be gone, but not the whole species (not for sure anyway). Did you see “Threads” film from 1984? That is pretty accurate.

    2. or “the 100” on Netflix with the remaining humans finishing one another anyway

  133. Putin needs a good green tip through his head, as does anyone who is willing to carry out his evil will.

    1. For the record I didn’t post this. Perhaps another Tom, or someone using my alias.

  134. So here we are.. Putin will use limited nukes to take Ukraine, correctly assessing the cowardice of Biden and allied Nato. However in so doing he lays the groundwork for massive isolation of Russia and his desperation first strike attack within the year. Fiction?

    1. Tell me your entire political personality is attributed to fox news without telling me. LMAO 🤣

      1. Iraqvet: Tell me what Putin’s endgame is then? It seems like he wants to escalate the war in Ukraine to the point where a Poland, UK, or France, under public pressure, intervenes in some way. Then, Putin can claim that NATO attacked him and he can escalate in response. The rest of NATO, following their own stated Red Line “We will NOT engage Russia militarily.” has an out, and can choose to sit back and not engage. NATO is effectively neutralized. Then, the Baltic states are up for grabs and Putin can achieve the legacy that he’s dreamed about since coming to power.

        In the above scenario, Putin has no incentive to not use tactical nuke in Ukraine to achieve his goal.

        If the above scenario is not correct, what is the next most-logical explanation? Insanity? If so, why not escalate to nuclear? Not insane, just made a massive miscalculation? Well, what option does he have then except to go to any length to win? Because if he loses in Ukraine, he’s done. If he ONLY takes Ukraine, he’s subjected Russia to China for generations and again, he’s done.

        What else makes any kind of sense?

        1. SS, your perspective is spot on. This “Ukraine Missile Crisis” has been the subject of much talk in Russia, by common Russian folks for
          months and months now. Although we didn’t get that read here in the west, thanks to american MSM. Putin is doing what Kennedy didn’t, he’s being pro-active, unlike Kennedy who backed down and pull missiles out of Turkey.

        2. You are correct vs the military logic: it is 450 km from Kharkiv to Moscow (short-range missiles can get there and those are technically unstoppable – too little warning time plus Russians always had a “blind radar spot” around the Kharkiv-Belgorod border). Not that it makes it any better for an average Ukrainian Joe dying from the convential missile strikes these days.

    2. The problem is with your knowledge of the situation: there are 11 million relatives on both sides of the Russia-Ukraine border :-( It makes this war a biblical crime except that both sides are Cain to one another to a degree :-(

  135. Hi we live in Penrose& I see that there is a nuclear plant up above Denver! So how would that effect us down here, even though I read the tie we would need to stay hibernated about 1-2 weeks if I read it right! I do have family up in north part Thornton area! Thank you, Jess

    1. Jess,
      Relax. Ft St.Vrain power plant has been closed for over 30 years, maybe some old rod storage now. Rocky Flats Weapons plant closed in 2003, now just fields.

  136. What’s with that one target in the Canadian Kootenays just north of the idaho/washington border? Seems like empty terrain, I can’t find anything there to explain why that mostly uninhabited region would be target?

    1. Just wondering,
      I believe that target is a bunch of Canadain hydro dams.

      1. More like airports and the seaports (only 19 major on both sides of North America
        – say if Toronto gets Pearson + Downsview hit – it looks bad enough with the surface detonation simulation

  137. These maps have a FATAL flaw, none of them show KUMMSC as a target (one Russia has admitted is a top US target). One map even shows it as a “civilian target” LOL (Albuquerque). Not only are three-quarters of our bombs held in reserve here (as well as decommissioned units), it is heavily armored, so it will very certainly be hit with several multimegaton bombs.

  138. “Get Ready Bal”

    How many are here in response to the invasion of Ukraine? Mad Vlad is losing his mind he doesn’t care. China is scheming to take Taiwan and other islands in the chaos. Sleepy Joe wants his ice cream.

  139. Think as a Globalist and you’ll have a much clearer picture of the why and when of things, than the MSM is providing us with their endless propaganda. The Goal is to reduce our population to about a half billion, but not by destroying the planet. The Globalists are also environmentalists, they don’t want the Earth glowing in the dark, and they’re in charge.
    They united to take over our media, steal the Presidential election, foment the current war in Ukraine with Russia. They’re behind the Covid epidemic and the Killer Vax. They promote homosexuality and the Trans nonsense because both result in zero childbirth. They took down Trump for being a Nationalist. Now they’re taking down Putin for the same reason. Nationalism must end if Globalism is to succeed, but nuking everything is contrary to their agenda. Expect the bird flu outbreak in the Eastern US to be the next reason to take a “vaccine”, as we’re likely to be told that it’s crossed the animal/human barrier and become infectious to us. That outbreak may not be a coincidence, it’s wiping out our poultry industry, threatens to do so nationwide, and spread worldwide, causing famine and death by starvation. Don’t forget, if it becomes infectious, that it was Bird Flu that killed millions during the 1st World War.

    The Globalist are out to decrease the population by any means necessary including war, famine and disease, but not by destroying the planet we live on, and again, they’re in charge. If you doubt this, start researching Klaus Schwab, the WEF and Blackrock Corporation.

    1. Jerry Mander,
      Spot on and unfortunately most people can’t or don’t want to see what’s right in front of their face.

  140. Shut the hell up! You stupid SOBs! Hunter is the smartest person I know! No joke! This isn’t globalism its good old fashioned thievery. Pay offs, kickbacks, crony capitalism. I’m not a globalist I’m a kid sniffing thief and so is Hunter, although Hunter is a real hit with the sister in-laws and teens mmmmm. BTW what shampoo do you use? Come here so I can get another whiffff mmmmmmmm.

  141. Great comments, but outdated info (I wonder). So from the person who grows up in the Soviets and now lives in Canada for a very long while. Also from someone whos kindergarten was in a place with its “personal” Pershing and a 4-minute warning :-)
    – USSR had targets such as continental plate joins; San-Andreas and Yellowstone (obviously). All ground detonation and probably in multiples to maximize the devastation.
    – Read about a specific island in the Atlantic, which if correctly detonated could produce a tsunami wiping most of the eastern seaboard ~ 50 miles deep.
    – START treaty stipulates 10 warheads per missile, while the latest Russian S-28 can carry up to 50 warheads (depending on the yield). The question is how many they could launch of all models and types and if whether they had already buried the treaty by now.
    – 12000 warheads must include ~5000 tactical (not sure if right) and not all of them will be used in any case.
    – total Russian launch must be 200-300 missiles (so how many could be shut down before hypersonic warheads are released and we get times 5-10 or more targets count multiplier); 50-60 are mobile launchers on patrol “somewhere in Siberia” – no silos to watch for.
    – Worst part (in my opinion) – Russian claim to have unmanned deep-ride subs with 2MT payload of Cobalt-60 (making it up to 130 years of shelter living in the affected areas if not mistaken)

    Please tell me I am just paranoid :-\

  142. Nuke warfare is not just a losing proposal it’s an endgame recognition by most countries. In the world with over 700 nuclear reactors none of which are hardened to any degree they would be a secondary layer of radioactive contamination. Even a limited exchange would be insurmountable worldwide. Here in the United States east of the Mississippi there are about 80 plus reactors and a major emp event would be by itself be a overlapping tale of destruction for the eastern half of the U.S. Even the western half of the U.S. would be highly contaminated, our governments own estimate of 300 million deaths here I think is low.
    I only have questions and concerns, not negative, just realistic, prepare for whatever, and pray that time will not come.

  143. Well, anyway, everyone…
    It’s very hard to know the impact, period.
    Worst case scenario, unless you move to South America you’re dead. Few can or will do this.
    Best case scenario, there is no nuclear war.
    We’re looking at the middle cases.
    Probably, avoiding living in one of the country’s major metro areas is a good strategy.
    The more isolated of a location in the USA you can tolerate, the better. Stay far from big metro areas and nuclear plants. Consider a basement fallout shelter (secretly). More importantly, know your neighbors and be friendly and on good terms with them.
    Probably nothing will happen, so you don’t want to live a miserable life just to be safe in the case of nuclear war.

  144. The FEMA map by Martin Vargic is excellent for the lower yield post-Cold war nukes. But it left off some things, like the VLF transmitter in Cutler, Maine. Where did they get those nuke numbers? They are pretty far off.

  145. I used to wonder why the last battle in the Bible was fought on horses.

    The overarching fact is that throughout human history, someone has always coveted what someone else has and is willing to destroy their civilization to take it.

    The fellows who worked on the first nuclear weapons were ashamed of what they wrought. For good reason.

    Lately, Boston University was boasting about merging the original C19 with the Omicron spike for an 80% kill rate.

    Nuclear or biological. Or both. We all got it coming. There is only One who took the sting out of death – Jesus.

  146. Lots of interesting theories and ideas and maybe real (or not) scenarios…
    The assured reality is that Russia has up to 3000 or more nukes on “ready alert” which can be launched at any time. Most of them are 800kt type set for ground burst for silos and hardened targets in the northern Midwest and airburst for major population centers and other soft targets. Nuclear war will be hell on earth in N. America and the first wave will take out those priority targets. Smaller towns with old military structures (old and former airbases or military bases) are also secondary targets. It won’t all happen in a day either, in an all out nuke war, nukes can go for other unexpected targets weeks later as surviving subs and unknown bases lash out at targets they may suddenly believe to be important. The Earth will go into a deep freeze and humanity will die out almost completely over the next couple years. Those who are prepared AND lucky will face times of the ancients without technology of any kind at some point…and modern history will become a legend and people will kill each other for anything they can.
    I’d rather fry in an instant to “survive” that.

  147. Would it really take more than nuking one city and threatening another unspecified city in 24 hours, to destroy a nation from within as everyone flees into the surrounding countryside, destroying all food, water supplies and other infrastructure? What government employee is going to hold a roadblock against masses, knowing they could die if they stay there? Would that blockade guard shoot? Would they have family too? I think it more likely a dying regime would self immolate after retreating to shelter, and blame a foreign adversary, and sadly we are seeing signs of there being such people in power. C19 did not achieve their goal, the manmade climate change hoax is failing everywhere, people are asking up to the brainwashing by the media, they are losing control, that is when the ruling elite become the most dangerous. When rats flee a ship is when you expect disaster.

  148. every comment on here sucks and has little to do with prepping lol

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