US Nuclear Target Map
December 2, 2011, Submitted by: Ken Tweet
Since we’ve recently been talking about Iran, Israel, the Middle East, China, Russia, the US, nukes, WW-III…
Out of curiosity I searched for maps that would reveal nuclear weapon targets in the US.
Not that it will make much of a difference to most of you, but it may be interesting to have a look at your own location in relation to the various nuclear target maps, to see how you would fare.
The various maps are from various sources, and I cannot vouch for any of them. However, using the logic that the average of the various maps may be somewhat close to the actual reality, I decided to copy several maps so you could interpolate for yourself.
Potential US Nuclear Targets Map – Full Resolution
The last map is of my own doing, which indicates several very general regions where it looks to me to be safer (notice I didn’t say ‘safe’) than others based on staring at the nuclear target maps listed here.
A few of the maps take in to account the prevailing wind patterns (a very important factor), and I weighted them more highly.
In any event, I thought you might find it interesting…
Oh, and there is no way I would want to be living near the three large zones in Montana, North Dakota, and the corner of Wyoming-Nebraska-Colorado (indicated on the first map) where there are evidently numerous nuclear missile silos.
For most, I’m sure it’s a bit strange or odd to even imagine or think about a nuclear war while looking at these maps. But the fact is, it remains a possibility, even though we hope that it is a very remote possibility due to the fact that there is something called ‘mutually assured destruction’ in which an attacking nation would likely be destroyed itself.
The approximate world score…
12,000 (Russia)
9,400 (USA)
300 (France)
240 (China)
225 (UK)
90 (Pakistan)
80 (India)
80 (Israel)
10 (N. Korea)
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What a fantastic idea to show everyone, just in case, where would be the best places to survive. I have all these maps and they are really frightening to look at. I would add a 3 or a 4 in front of the world score card for China making it 3,240 or 4,240. In fact when I see this each year in the new World Almanac I mark this out and change it to what is more correct because this is an insult to my intelligence from a book that is suppose to be about accurate facts. Unfortunately with these maps the wind pattern is assumed by the NORMAL stats keep on them. After a huge exchange of weapons the very immediate climate is likely to change dramatically and therefor ALL areas within the U.S. should be considered dangerous and preparations should be taken everywhere just in case.
One item everyone should consider in a nuclear war is protection from radiation, and the more mass you have between you and the radiation the better. Also the rule of 7. After 7 hours the radiation is 10 times less, after 49 hours (7×7) the radiation is 100 times less, after 2 weeks the radiation 1000 times less. If you can stay away from the radiation the longer the better. Just look at the chart below.
Half effect of various material in reducing Gamma radiation:
Lead .8 inches
Steel 1.2 inches
Concrete 3.9 inches
Earth or dirt 5.5 inches
Wood 11.8 inches
Each 5.5 inches of dirt reduces radiation by 1/2, 11 inches by 1/4, etc. So 38.5 inches of dirt over a shelter would make the radiation 1/128 of what is outside. Big difference for just a little over 3 feet of dirt. You can survive radiation from nuclear war anywhere as long as you have enough material between you and it.
Ken is right about MAD, it has worked for USSR and the U.S., but I am not so sure about China. The Chinese have said that they plan what is called the assasian’s mace on the enemy in an effect to blind them. You know what scares me is the type of science fiction TV series Battlestar Galactica the newer one in which the Cylons used computer warfare to paralyze the 12 colony’s military defenses and nuked everything with no resistence except from the older defenses. World War 3 could start with some sort of nationwide cyber attack that confuses the systems of the whole country, including the military. I know the military is suppose to be separate and protected from a cyber attack of anything, but is it?
Then there is always the possibility that some country thinks they can survive a counter nuclear attack. Like that the Russian and Chinese have been for the better part of this century been digging all sorts of underground facilities like there is no tomorrow.
I think the most upsetting feelings is that people nowadays just seem more irrational than anytime since the last world war. It just seems like country’s leaders are doing what I call dumb ass moves on all fronts. Just look at the utter decay of the world’s financial situations. People have also forgotten the horrors of TRUE WAR. Everyone seems just fine with watching the air forces bomb the living daylights out of some country or the troops taking care of business in other countries. People and this includes leaders have no real idea anymore what TRUE WAR is, it has become more of a “computer game” than the harsh reality of the nightmare it is. Just this in itself could lead to World War 3, because it won’t be that bad mentality. Someone help us if the leaders have gotten to this point.
Ken, you just keep putting out valuable information that could be of essential life saving information for others. Two thumbs up again for Ken!
I am interested in the first map. Is there someplace I can view the map in larger format to see the detail. I notice there is a black dot on the map in the I live in West Virginia near Ohio. I cannot see the map legend as it is too small and it is distorted when blown up. Where can I see this map, please. Thanks.
Randy, I just added a full resolution link into the article. Enjoy…
One point; these maps are based on an assumption that military targets would be the only or the prime targets. It is unlikely that either Russia or China would choose to suddenly decide to complu with the Gevena Convention in a decision where not accomplishing a complete takedown of the enemy would guarantee the mutually assured destruction they fear the most. It is likely that any city with manufacturing capability, transportation hubs, airports, ports, and a long list of other attributes would be nuked as well.
Also the prevailing winds are just that. Where I live the prevailing winds are Westerly but we regularly get warmer and wetter Southwest winds or colder and clear Northeast winds. They are the exception but not even close to rare. So in addition to looking at the prevailing winds put a circle of about 150 radius around every target and it is likely that fallout will spread within that circle as well.
When you do these two things most of the map is covered.
Then the kicker that probably means we all die or at least most of us; if Russia has 12,000 nukes why wouldn’t they use most of them if they decided to attack? What would they gain by using 20% of them if that meant that we could both retaliate and build ourselves back up? Why not use 90% of their nukes and destroy every city every airport, every important infrastructure???
One last point: The worst thing any super power could do is signal their intent. Their one best hope is that they could destroy the enemy in a 90 minute salvo of missiles and bombs with very little retalliation. If China or Russia commits a massive cyber attack then it would put all our weapons on maximum alert and the decision to counterattack as soon as the initial attack is detected would be already thought out and decided. If anything it is more likely that a massive nuclaer war would be preceeded by friendly gestures and visits by diplomats then some kind of cyber attack.
@CG; You are very correct on your MAD assertions about the targeting (see simultaneous post with yours) being the population and production centers. Just FYI, there are certain things that have to take place prior to a launch and there are systems that keep watch over these “happenings”, so it would be difficult for the Russians to blindside us other than to do it while we were signing a peace treaty with them as you so eloquently strategized. The 12,000 nukes that they have, as well as our 9,000+, are not all ICBMs. Some are tactical nukes in the 5-30 Kiloton range that go on cruise missiles or are on short range missiles, torpedoes or anti-sub weapons. Some are gravity bombs that are throwbacks to the nuclear triad concept and the rest of them are junk, just like ours are. We reprocess old nukes to maintain our current stockpile of weapons…they get old! The Russians do the same. Just to give you some perspective, one Ohio class boomer carries 24 Trident II missiles which typically carry 10 MIRV warheads for a total of 240 per boat (sub is a boat not a ship) and the Ohio class subs (there are 14 boomers) carry about half of our current inventory of nuclear weapons (3400ish). The accepted strategy for a first strike is not to use your entire arsenal but to disable the ability of the enemy to strike back with 45% of your arsenal with 45% for a counterstrike and 10% in reserve (for what I don’t know, it’s just what they tell me). If all you had were land based ICBMs, this would be possible, however since most are SLBMs and no boomer of ours has EVER been detected by the Russians they can’t succeed at a first strike that significantly disables our retaliatory ability. This is the reason MAD works. See the other post this topic for the Chinese strategery (arrggh). You are very perceptive about this subject, you should have worked at the Pentagon. Enjoy
I did work for the pentagon for 20 years and very close to the command and control of our nuclear weapons (I saw everything they saw). I usually hesitate to say too much out of fear of … well, saying too much.
@CG, Well, that would explain a lot. You have a lot of (pardon my sexism) un-womanly knowledge in the “war arts”. Spent 11 yrs AD in special electronics and SLBM detection and sub tracking and fumbled around SEA a little bit, taking fire. I hesitate to say too much, but the info is past it’s prime in specifics but not in generalities, although I don’t violate any conf. agreements. Did a little contract work here and there for TLAs over the years as it was good extra money, and wound up being a combat engineer in the reserves. Reserves makes for good cover to work for TLAs as well as provides real retirement. Tromped around the SWA theater and made good money on both sides of the ID card. I love the cage fighter analogy, that’s funny! Retired last year, just wasn’t fun any more, as an E-8 with 6000 points. Yeah, I’ve sat next to the GOLD phone too, don’t know what color they are in the 5 sided house, but they go to the same person. Take care and thanks for your service!
Firstly, I am a father and my first concern is always that of my children. I am no different from a father in Russia or anywhere else. There could be nothing worse than countries with nuclear weapons being crazy enough to use them. Over the years and despite much chaos calmer heads have prevailed. The actual nuclear warhead count listed in previous comments are completely wrong. The Country of Russia does not have 12,000 nuclear weapons that can hit the United States. Russia has about 1400 warheads that can hit us via Ballistic missiles, however the number would get much lower due to failure rates, a few missile defense systems located in California and Alaska, targets in other countries, and the possiblity of early target strikes by the United States. There are are over seven hundred U.S. and Nato military bases that Russia has in their targets sites, many of which are not in the United States. The United States has about 1700 warheads that are currently ready for launch and our enemies are aware that many of them are on submarines. Despite all the rhetoric that continues by politiians a nuclear war is unlikely, but dont think for any reason that U.S. forces are not overly ready, they are. My grandfather, a high ranking officer worked for Strategic Command and actually created the first nuclear targeting maps for Russia, China, and other areas around the world. No one wants war and our leaders have thankfully been working hard to reduce these weapons of mass destruction. Thankfully since the eighties nuclear weapons have been reduced by over 80%. We can thank President Reagan and Gorbachev for believing that human lives are precious. So pray, believe, and work towards peace.
@Mrblue008; Have to disagree. We have 1000 (100 missiles optimal, 10 each MIRVed ICBMS) warheads based on land based ICBMs. This does not count the fact that we have 450 LGM-30G Minutemen III missiles that have the capacity of carrying 3 MIRVs a piece available, and their status is not known. By the START II treaty, if we had signed it, would have limited us to 240 SLBMs at 10-12 MIRVs per missile. We didn’t sign it. We have 14 Ohio class SSBNs loaded with SLBMs. They don’t swap them (the missiles) around. Each is loaded with 24 missiles with 12 MIRVs per vehicle, for a total of 288 warheads per boat (subs are called boats). We have a staggered cascade of boats out with a minimum of 7 and a usual maximum of 10 for a total output of 2016 up to 2880 warheads. We have at a minimum, 3000+ warheads up to almost 4000, available at any one time. Our enemies can know that they are on SSBNs, but they can’t do anything about that. As far as Russia goes, they would not attack. The Chinese are ape-sh**, so who knows. Their philosophy, as I have stated before, is that they hope we will blink because we would rather have our high (low) life style than stand up for our values and have integrity, as opposed to them sending over ICBMs that might result in 2-5 missiles that actually make it through. If we want to rule, then we should act like it. Survive well. Enjoy.
That is a great entry. Your grandfather was involved in the first target maps? Fascinating. I share you attitude towards abolition, if I understand you correctly. Anyone who thinks otherwise lacks imagination. I had some questions. Did you grandfather ever tell you anything about nuclear war being survivable in north america (including Canada)? What political/lobby forces were/are in place to actually keep building nuclear weapons?
Jeremy
@BI; Hate to disagree with you friend but the numbers for China are quite correct. I realize that it seems very much askew but nukes are more expensive to keep and maintain than they are to make. See my post on previous topic WW III w/China so that I don’t take up space in duplication. While Ken’s theoretical premise is correct on radiation dispersion, the targeting is not following the premise of MAD. In MAD the military installations and launch silos are not targeted. While it seems intuitive to pick out those items as targets, they are not the most productive targets for Mutual Assured Destruction. The best bang for your buck (gratuitous pun intended) are the population centers. A device capable of taking out a missile silo reliably (it is probably already empty as the bulk of our missile forces are SLBMs) has to be very accurate with a CEP of 100 meters or less and be larger than is normally on a MIRVed missile. This is juxtaposed to the fact that the same device will take out hundreds of thousands of people when used in a MAD premise as a city killer. Now, having said that, pontificating as I have, I will say that China’s premise is not so much a MAD sit. as it is a “we will f**k up your way of life” premise and they think we will back down from the possibility of a nuclear exchange with them. If we ever do that the planet will be their hostage. I don’t see an exchange with the Russians as being a significant possibility at this time, although it is subject to change. The more probable event is 1. China/US or 2. China/Russia. I will certainly agree that you should have some sort of reasonable fallout shelter or plan to deal with radiation fallout. I will reiterate though that we will wax China’s ass if they try it and we have a real president with cajones, they will cease to exist. Best Regards
No one can prove just how many nuclear weapons China has other than China. Nuclear weapons are looked upon as deterrents and the grand equalizers. China exploded their first nuke in 1964 and had between 300-400 by 1980. In the 31 years since then all logic points to a mass expansion of their inventory. As in the first Gulf War saddam grossly underestimated the power of the United States, especially the far superior, and thus eventually ended in a spider hole after the second war.
I don’t want the U.S. military to ever underestimate a huge country with a poulation 4 and 1/2 times that of the U.S., a country with a large mass of land slightly larger than the U.S., a country that has enormous amounts of money to go shopping for all sorts of weapons and the technology to go behind it, and country that is completely secret. Surprises are ugly and have cost militaries the battle and the war. I hope that the U.S. military knows how dangerous China is and is simply not making this information public.
We use to do assessments in college of other country’s ability to wage war and substain it. China would be viewed now as extremely dangerous. Money buys technology and the know how to build and manufacture it. China was shamed during the rescue of Taiwan during the 90′s and vowed to never suffer such humillation ever again. The mass leap forward has unfortunately taken a very dangerous turn for the U.S. and the Pacific allies, especially Australia and New Zealand.
The Jericho TV series had 24 cities being nuked from terrorists and the demise of the U.S. from this. That is not too far from the truth. The country’s infrastructure could be devastated by 25-50 metropolitian areas being nuked. China could annihilate the country with what they have, this I am sure of. What worries me also is North Korea firing enough missiles over here to destroy the country’s ability to recover from such an attack.
It is not the U.S. military that I doubt in their ability to wage a well fought war. It is anything that does get through to the civilian population that just could not recover from nuked cities and the radiation. This country’s military is very strong, the country’s infrastructure is what is so weak. I agree with TripodXL, a MAD scenario would be aimed at that weakest point of the U.S. and this would not be at military facilities, it will be at the cities and the hubs of this country’s manufacturing sections. This is what I would aim at some foreign country if I was in charge of some military, the weakest point to cause complete collapse.
Many times throughout history countries have gone to war for the stupidest reasons, like the notion that a nuclear war is winnable. China and Russia would suffer terrible losses in a war with the United States, North Korea would be a parking lot, but it does not mean it won’t happen. Unfortunately the United States would win the battle with China or Russia, but lose the war because there would not be much of a country left to come back to. Thank the politicians and leaders of this country for selling out to China and India and allowing for the internal structual integrity of the country to fall apart so much so.
Too bad they dropped the Jericho TV series – I had really enjoyed that one… It goes to show you that the majority of folks don’t get into that kind of TV show or scenario – the ratings must have been low.
Jericho’s ratings were actually good the producers thought otherwise, they were just going to end the series halfway through the second season, this caused huge protests and boycotts by fans. the producers finally agreed to finish the second season but the ending left us even more confused. Due to the post -apocolyptic popularity in recent years they have actually considered bringing jericho back, it is one of the most popular tv showes streamed on netflix.
@BI; To be sure, only the Chinese know the EXACT number. Part of the point I was trying to make is that they don’t need to have parity or even fractional parity with either the Russians or us in nuclear weapons to have a viable (for them) strategy. They have a “spoiler” strategy in that they don’t think any country would “test their resolve” and risk losing their way of life to test them. And it’s a good strategy as long as no one calls their bluff. But you can only use that strategy for so long before it doesn’t work. China simply does not need 1,000s of nukes to “sell” their strategy, so they have a deterrent of sorts for 1/10th the price and upkeep. They are putting their money into a blue water navy, not nukes. There are only two ways to project power, one is with nukes and they have enough and the other is a blue water navy, which they don’t have. Also, just as an aside they don’t have the early warning infrastructure that we and the Russians have, another area that they don’t have to spend enormous amounts of money on. Matter of fact, if they became too much of a pain in the ass to the Russians and us we could burn’em to the ground in about 30 minutes if we got together on it. All their assets are ICBMs and thus subject to a first strike with a 98% success rate. We just don’t do that as a country, however it is a strategy that might become not only necessary but preferable in the near future. Also, the C3 systems (command, control and communication) that are allocated to U.S. strategic weaponry are not connected to the internet. All the launch control centers for ICBMs and tracking systems are computers to be sure but they are special purpose computer systems built years ago and are not connected to anything but Cheyenne Mt. The mountain itself doesn’t have any strategic computers that weren’t built years ago and they have no hard line connections to other computer systems. They are completely dedicated stand alone systems. But you are right about the rest of the military systems, they are vulnerable to outside cyber attacks and we better get them straight and soon. People are playing politics with our military computer systems doing some empire building. Anyway enjoy.
My point to was that someone, call it a treasonous person whatever, all computers no matter how well protected can be hacked and disrupted. This is why that Battlestar TV series was so much of an impact on me as that bimbo Cylon got to Baltar (the head of defense for the colonies), because there is no full proof anything anymore because of computers. This is of course science fiction but still something to ponder. I wonder if somehow the computers could be compromised without the use of the internet. It is something to be concerned about. Command and control is just a protected system from the outside, but not from the inside. That frightens me.
Anyway, I should have said in the previous remark that I am glad that you are okay from that cat, this was not considerate of me, I was just not thinking as I have a lot on my mind. I hope you are keeping your health up as lots of antibiotics have a drain on the immune system. Cat germs are something you don’t fool with, the bacteria in their mouths are powerful bad. I hope you continue to fully recover, it is no fun to get sick from an animal bite.
@BI; No, no, I’m pretty well healed by now. But the rapidity of the infection was STUNNING to say the least. In 23 hours I was at a point of sliding into the danger zone, dying in a few days or being pulled back to health. I started to just go to bed instead of get a friend to take me to the hospital that evening, you know didn’t want to bother anyone. Another 10-12 hours probably would have been the diff. between life and death as fast as the infection was going. It would have been a push at least. Anyway God takes care of me, even though I don’t deserve it, in the grand scheme of things. Appreciate your points of view, more input. Be well. Ed
@ CountryGirl. You are right about not tipping off an enemy, but the United States intelligence is definitely in the top 3 of the world and any type of friendly gesture and visits by diplomats would be seen as a warning, this is an old trick that doesn’t work well anymore, at least you would hope not. In what I was referring to as a cyberattack is something never seen before, a type of complete shutdown of everything, where military equipment just doesn’t work at all. I know this sounds farfetched, but military equipment is dependent on computers, and IF an enemy country could cause some sort of disruption in which nothing would work, including in the U.S. submarines that are still linked back to a command and control center then a cyberattack would.
I know it is a total science fiction series in which the Cylons paralyzed everything, but science fiction has proven to be science fact in many cases. When I first saw this on the Battlestar pilot episode, I immediately thought could this happen with the United States in regard to China or Russia? I started to think about because of accidents or some crazed sub commander, that ALL U.S. defenses are linked to some central point for safety reasons. If something could cause a virus of some sort to spread from that central point to ALL U.S. military sources it could happen like the TV series. Which nothing worked, everything was scrabbled, all missiles just sat there unable to fire, even in the subs. No viable launch code, no launch. Manual launching would do no good because targeting is dependent on computers and satellites that would be unusable also. Computers are a funny thing, they can all be defeated by the proper means.
Just a thought as you know the enemy is trying to accomplish exactly this, and is probably TESTING the United States’ defenses, with these recent attacks from China and Russia as the countries to blame for these. Enemies test the waters before the main attack, have since the first fortesses would contructed. I hope this is farfetched, but I don’t think so as technology now could overrun any computer system a generation ago.
There is another consideration that no one here, or for the most part, anywhere, has thought about or even knows about. For some of us old timers, we remember “The Philadelphia Experiment” conducted by Albert Einstein and the US Navy on a destroyer escort vessel decades ago. If you think an all out nuclear war option is strictly up to the discretion of the earthly beings as we know them, you’re sadly mistaken.
@ chiller. I thought The Philadelphia Experiment was an attempt at making some sort of cloaking device or some force shield for a the parameters of a ship. I saw the movie in which it caused some sort of time warp, but as I can remember it was more for a defense purpose that did not work as it gave the people aboard the ship all sorts of cancers because it realigned their cellular structure. I don’t understand what you mean by Earthly beings, do you mean that some alien beings control what the humans do on this planet? Do you mean that this has to do with some multi-dimensional universal law or God? Please clarify, I am curious.
By the way one other thing I forget to mention about China having as many nukes as possible comes in one word, INDIA. While Japan, South Korea, and even Vietnam have beefs with China, I think one of the best reasons for China to have as many nuclear weapons as possible is the United States and INDIA, and the success rates of nuclear devices. The country of India and China have long been thought to fight a major war someday over the Cashmir and Himalayan regions that are very rich in minerals.
I still think the chances of a full out exchange is extremely small. However; the chance of a singe or multiple detonation of small yeild devices is very likely. Even more likely is the use of a high altitude low yeild EMP causing burst. This would result in a return to 19th century technology for quite some time.
Here is the problem with any exchange of nuclear devices, including EMP devices; it is an attack using nukes. It changes everything. It probably doesn’t matter if it is Iran nuking Israel or Pakistan nuking India. Once that can of worms is opened everything will change. I would estimate that the chance of a nuclear weapon being used agains the U.S. today is 100:1 or so. The day after Iran nukes Israel I would say those odds go to 1:1. There are 100 reasons for this and some may be more convincing then others but it is unarguable that once a nuke is used anywhere in the world everywhere becomes a target.
Second point is that the plan every super power has to retalliate against a nuclear attack is a massive nuclear reaction. So while a terrorist might use a single nuke against a major city now nuclear power would and that includes EMP’s No nuclear power is going to set off an EMP over NY City because they know we would set off 2000 nukes in their cities. And no terrorist nation/group has the ability to use an EMP device. So while a small conventional nuke that was bought from post collapse Russia or from North Koreas or stolen from Pakistan or built by Iran “could” someday be used in the CONUS the chances of an EMP are slim to none.
@ CountryGirl. The old Pandora’s box being opened, yes this is probably true when one nuke is used all hell begins. I do not feel it would be difficult for a terrorist to set off an EMP from say a freighter with a mobile launcher positioned most likely off the Gulf of Mexico. The altitude would only have to be a couple hundred of miles high or so, the distance would be more the problem. I am not familiar with what size would have to be used to cause a large scale EMP, and this would also be an issue. Anything over 80 kt would probably have to be thermonuclear, which would be much more difficult to obtain. Do you know if a Hiroshima type explosion 20 kt or so would cause an EMP? If so then I would say that a terrorist could do it. If an EMP would require a 1 megaton explosion to do it, then I agree with the chances of a terrorist EMP are slim to none.
One other small issue that I have noticed about the world nowadays is the bizarre seems to occur more now than anytime I have been alive. The weird and the unexpected have been happening more often. This is why I kind of think outside the box at the strange that could happen. I think that a small scale EMP event is more likely, a science show I saw went into a lot detail on this, can’t remember the name as it was on TV about 3 years ago.
Any nuclear explosion has the capability to create an EMP effect but they tend to be weak unless the device is specifically designed to maximize the EMP. This is to difficult for just any nuclear power to create. It is so unlikely that a terrorist could even get an EMP device that it just isn’t a serious risk. A “small” EMP would be like slapping a cage fighter. It is a really stupid idea because it wouldn’t cause much damage but it would really piss him off.
The scenario where a nuclear attack is launched from a cargo ship or any commercial type vessel just offshore is a very serious and scary threat in terms of gross damage and civilian deaths. Not very effective to disable our ability to retalliate though.
@CG & All; She is exactly correct. EMP is very hard to produce and I would be very surprised if even China could produce one. They might have one that they have not tested, as it takes a real test-fire to verify that it works. EMP does not model well on computers. As far as France, Israel, Pakistan, and India (the UK uses what we give them) they have not put the resources into this like the USSR did and the U.S. did. You sort of have to hold your mouth right to get a good EMP. It really is not achievable by a terrorist state. It would have to be given to them by Russia or MAYBE China. Also CG is right about the cage fighter analogy. A small nuke detonated over NYC (as an aside CG, this is where you or I could be arrested as terrorists, never to be seen again!!!FYI) and take out NYC but nothing else as far as EMP…it really would be like pissing off a cage fighter. The freighter attack is a very real threat but the EMP would require significant national resources. If we were ever attacked that way the list is short and the people that can do it KNOW that. I don’t think they dare. IMHO. Survive well, enjoy.
I live in NH. If a nuclear war broke out, i would flee to northern Maine, as it is according to the map a safe place, the safest haven to my state. I’m surprised that NH wouldn’t be safe, though.. There isn’t anything worth nuking here.
TripodXL or CountryGirl. This article I want to know if is it inaccurate about EMP? http://www.naturalnews.com/034344_EMP_weapons_electronics_modern_civilization.html
There is some sound advice about survival about trying to go more low tech in this article, but as what both of you have said about EMP it seems like a question whether North Korea would be able to produce any EMP. Again, I know little about this and I would like to know more as I am sure others would to. Aside from a blast from the sun or space, can a country other than Russia or China actually threaten the U.S. with EMP?
@BI; I went and scanned the article. One, I have my doubts that China has perfected an EMP device, but even so, so what. Two, could we be sent back to 1860…a resounding yes. But there are some caveats to that. A; who would do it? Both China and Russia know that any such attack would be no different than any other nuclear first strike and would be responded to as such. In other words they could plan on an EMP device coming back over the North pole in their direction. It’s not like they can just whistle along and walk down the street like nothing happened. The EMP would have no effect on our strategic ability to respond. If we were hammered back to 1860 do you not think that we could do anything other than respond in kind? To maintain parity we would have to. The big question on most people’s mind is “can terrorists do this?”…NO they can’t. It requires extremely sophisticated nuclear technologies that cannot be built anywhere but in the upper tier of world class labs and facilities. That creates a very short list of “who dunnit”. There are only 1 or 2 on the list, Russia and MAYBE China. Now, N. Korea. First, they have not had a successful launch of the No Dong (who names their missiles, just sayin) missile that has covered more than 1/4 the circumference of the earth, without problems. I think you need at least one to actually work before you can threaten anyone. Also as far as an EMP device they have no hope in hell of creating one on their own. They have had two detonations that were piss poor both times. The estimated yield on the first one was 3-4 KT and like 6-7 KT on the second one. In other words they didn’t make as big a bang as they should have. Plus that is just a bomb that goes boom, on the ground, not an engineered device that can be flung over half way around the world and work. Having said that, China could be an “agent provocateur”, and be providing them with ICBMs and a device, and letting them be the “scape goat” as it were. “Yeah, don’t let the U.S. push you around, go get’em”. I would hope that if that happened that the PTB would cold-cock the Chinese, without reservation. So, if you are worried that terrorists or N. Korea could do this, the answer is NO. Could China or Russia do this, Russia yes, China maybe, unless CG knows something I don’t. The point is that if N. Korea has been helped to this technology, it will probably happen, Kim ‘whatever-his-name-is’ is crazy. That the Chinese think that they would have deniability in this action is also crazy and I think they would suffer the consequences. Furthermore if the Chinese become such a worldwide pain in the ass, the US and Russia may go in together and get them a surprise present for Chinese New Years, IMHO, and just wax their asses.
If you want to survive EMP, you should get a diesel P/U truck, the year escapes me, but it is like 89 or 87 and before and buy a spare “electronics set” for it (alternator and/or diode set, VR, etc., check with a mechanic) and store the parts properly. Diesel is also good in that in this sit. diesel is what runs military vehicles, farm equipment, and 18 wheelers to get goods to market. It would be easier to find it than gasoline. Also, any radios or electronic equipment, for survival, should be stored properly as well. What is proper storage? If you have a metal building so much the better, it will shield everything from most of the EMP, but the skin should be earth grounded. In the building put a metal filing cabinet and inside put all your electronics on a piece of wood (non conductive) wrapped in a static bag or foil. This should stop all EMP or CMEs that don’t kill everything on Earth. Actually the filing cabinet, board and foil should be enough, just being super cautious. Hope this helps BI. Enjoy.
@ TripodXL. Thank you for the information, I liked the article about prepping and getting ready for what could happen by going back a few decades and getting used to using yesterday’s tools and materials, that I have always thought was a good idea. I was a bit suspicous of the rest of the article. With an EMP I am much more concerned about the sun belching up than some country. The sun is enormous and previous EMP’s have occurred and will occur again. Nature has a way of often showing us just how tiny we are and vulnerable to it.
Diesel engines make a lot of sense and so does the storage of diesel fuel as it is much safer to do so. Diesel fuel only has one drawback as it tends to collect moisture in it and needs to be protected from this. Thanks again for discussing this, I and others continue to learn and enjoy new information.
@BI; You’re welcome. Any knowledge that can be gleaned from the rumpled grey matter should be used for the edification of others to pay for my past sins. Also, even though diesel attracts moisture, it never goes bad. We’ve had heavy equipment at the unit that has had the same fuel in it for years and every month we would go out and crank it, do a run up and an ops check and shut it down until next month. Yeah, the sun can put out more ionic sledge hammering than we ever can with a puny EMP device. The actual truth is that many devices will still work after EMP and some won’t. You just don’t know which ones. The earlier diesels had no computers and only had a voltage reg. and the alternator and one other part that I can’t remember right now, might be a resistor, I think. Anyway, check with a mechanic. The Air Force tested some non-tactical vehicles (cars and P/U trucks) with EMP and found that some worked and some didn’t. This was done in the early to mid 90s. Of course now there are even more electronics in them than then. Not to confuse the issue, there are also non-nuclear (chemical powered) EMP devices that can produce a focused EMP effect with a range of 1/4 to MAYBE 1 mile. These devices can absolutely only come from the Russians, us or the Chinese maybe. They do very little conventional destruction but in the right place could create tremendous chaos, i.e. Wall St. at mid day, or any other sensitive place. I would worry more about the sun and a CME/solar storm than anyone else. Take care and survive well, friend.
Not buying into this. Also not being rude, I hope.
I read something; in a far away place, a long time ago.
Thanks for the info. I would like to respectively add a few comments. The big yellow area in central Idaho indicating the best place to live, unfortunately is roughly the boundaries of the 2.3 million acre River of No Return Wilderness Area. I used to outfit in there. There are no roads, so you can only get there by foot or horseback. Okay for me and other horse folks, but not too handy for the general public. Besides, without a special use permit, the Payette National Forest Ranger would be breathing down your neck after the two week limit of camping in one spot.
Secondly, no one seems concerned about the INEEL in the desert east of Idaho Falls, it stands for Idaho Engineering and Energy Laboratory. It houses a whole lot of nuclear testing stuff and other secret stuff for the government. I find it hard to believe the a cutting edge place like that is less of a target than a 60 year old missile silo. I personally feel that the whole state of North Dakota is a target – there are hundreds of actively manned silos up there. Just try to stop and visit them – an Air Force guard will greet you very promptly. That’s all – thanks for all the helpful info.
One thing I have yet to see in any of these fallout maps is one that accounts for drift out of Asia and Eastern Russia. Chinese dust has been demonstrated to accelerate the melting of the Colorado snow pack, and if the U.S. is throwing a few (or scores) of nukes over there, then that dust will be highly radioactive, and headed for the Western U.S.
Hey folks,
Let’s just get this straight. Your country, the US, gets in a nuclear scrap with Russia or China. Is that what were are talking about?
Did you ever stop to think of the effect on other countries??
I mean, there is a serious hole in the American psyche. You are totally preoccupied with your own navel without concept of the effect of your actions on others.
Frankly, if you ever use those nukes, you take down billions of people in bystanding countries with little of anything to do with your dispute. Did you ever consider that?? Huh??
Consider going out to dinner with your family and seeing your loves ones shot by a couple rival gangs in a firefight. — THAT’s your nuclear war.
If you have any respect for the other 6 billion people on this planet you’d factor that into your egotistical chest thumbing.
And by the way, you think you and the rest of the nuclear club are the only ones capable of weaponizing. Think again. ALL of the industrialized nations have had the capacity for nuclear programs since 1945. In fact, the very first nuclear weapons program involved cooperation from a many countries and people from many countries in order to end WWII. Yet the vast majority of us are smart enough to know that it’s not worth developing and maintaining mass stockpiles. It just is not worth risking global annihilation for the sake of global power and influence.
To hell with your conceited mentalite. Always looking for someone to fight. Don’t you see it’s in your blood to seek confrontation and that is why you always find it? Look, and ye shall find. But if you think about BIGGER things, like the world you should WANT, you may actually achieve that.
Hey Jeremy, I believe you’ve entirely missed the message of the post. That is, having a look at ‘likely’ targets versus where one may be currently living. Your comment, although nuclear in topic, does not contribute to the message of the article. This is a survival-preparedness blog, not a pro-nuclear-war blog. Who are you shouting at and why? I’ve allowed your comment to be posted, exemplifying the visceral mentalities that exist out there. Perhaps you’re a troll looking to stir up $hit…
Ken,
First of all, thanks for posting my message. You must be the site moderator, so hats off to you.
But, do you honestly think I am addressing the threats header in isolation? It’s obvious from half the posts where the real enthusiasm lies. With some, survival. But with too many, power and superiority. And let me ask, why is American survival the one factor to eclipse the survival of all others? It is these visceral mentalities that need to be addressed rather than ignored. I want people to think twice about the reasons for their interest, and to broaden their concern to everyone.
Sorry if I offended anyone. Have a nice day.
@ Jeremy. I am not sure if you were addressing some of your anger towards my comments months ago. I personally want to try to show everyone that there is a threat from nuclear war, just like someone living on top of an earthquake fault that lives in denial about the potential of a disaster occurring. I have personally seen people prepare for practically anything other than the horrors of nuclear war and this disturbs me. I like the people on this site and unless people understand the dangers of World War 3 they have a big problem if and when it should ever occur.
I personally feel that war is something that one day odds will catch up to everyone. I personally have expressed myself about the dangers of nuclear war happening because I don’t want people to have to go through it without at least having read something to at attempt to survive it. I have truly asked many times for people to just become fimiliar with it like understanding how to survive a tornado or other disaster. I would love to see everyone on this site be able to build a homemade Kearny fallout meter so if and again when something does happen they can at least get an idea how many RADs there are and whether they need to stay inside a shelter or not.
The target map Ken put up is just like an earthquake map that shows the most dangerous areas and where someone might or might not want to live. Where the safer areas are to possibly relocate to. I to have become overly passionate about some of my views and had Ken edit them. I guess when people feel strongly they like to express them. I have become “too much” sometimes also but later realized I could have said it a little differently.
Jeremy, I have all sorts of concerns that I feel will befall this planet, and nuclear war is number 2 on my list. A plague is number one. I just hope that people when they prepare do so for ALL reasonable scenarioes for where they live. I have long wished that people address the whole spectrum of survival, especially nuclear war survival because it is the most detailed and difficult. It is survivable though. Don’t you feel that people can survive World War 3 with the proper preparation? I do!
@”BEE”, Always the gentlemen… ( re: J’s anger as a general scenario… ) Allow for those entering the dialogue, they may hear and react, rather than research prior to posting. Stay centered and w/ the breath, here & now. It may take time and true effort to SEE one such as yourself. ( As with anyone that speaks truth; “Our Truths”… ) There is a justifiable reason to research a biographic. Honor and difference should be guidelines that responders make use of learning to communicate through common courtesy as with M.S.B. edification “Policy”. It’s easy to put a foot in one’s mouth. Access to this gift to freely express should approach a do onto others mentality as a given… You are more than words and deserve respect as a human. Anyone could research your worthy thoughts entering, search-posts by “Be informed”… which is becoming quite the book… Be well “BEE”… Otter… P.S. Ken very well stated response above. I see the Jeremy’s hopes and dreams coming to court in the future. Kudos for posting as it’s technique is useful in teaching. I have myself retracted and apologized early @ statements I made. Survive-All… Awareness-Prepares-The Way of Action… The Tao of Survivalism… Read between the lines…
@ otter. I have stuck my foot in my mouth on too many occasions to count, I just have to have the sense to pull it out. Writing here has helped me a lot to learn, though I make plenty of mistakes. Again, when someone makes a mistake you only learn by attempting to correct it. I just hope that with the way the world is that everyone will at least read up on nuclear war or at least radioactive fallout. Doesn’t have to be an attack, it could be an accident or some natural calamity that causes dangerous fallout everywhere. Don’t like the earthquake activity that has been occurring lately.
I know a lot of you are not part of what I am addressing and I’m sorry if I put my foot in my mouth.
I’m addressing certain tones in what was posted said above, not all of it. And the general mindset around nuclear development to begin with.
This is a good site and it makes sense to educate people everywhere about the dangers of nuclear which are still, clearly, very real. Until we abolish these weapons and, further to this, abolish emphasis on pride and ego in major power foreign policy, the world remains at risk.
So I’m not disagreeing with most of you, just the influence of Dr. Strangelove, which is no one in particular but something in all of us.
@ Jeremy. Until mankind finds a more powerful weapon, nuclear will not be dismantled. Until humans find a way of getting along with each other and working towards the betterment of everything, wars will continue to be fought and always when one side is losing they will result to using their most powerful weapon. I watched one of the most horrible movies the other night about how these sickos were paying big money to torture and kill people just for the hell of it, and this made me almost vomit. The movie and these other programs that depict suffering of people or animals is bad enough, the fact that there is a market for it is truly what is so disturbing to me. It shows that humanity has not growen at all spiritually.
I detest defending myself in a battle and inflicting injury or worse, but I know how to not because I enjoy hurting someone. I know how to because I detest someone hurting me or someone that matters to me. War is a result of so many factors, more often than not it is what can be taken from a weaker opponent. If I was the leader of a country I would defend that country will whatever was available, and most leaders feel the same way. Russia feels boxed in and IF the United States with its Monroe Doctrine was in a similir situation it would have blown up the world by now. It is a miracle with Russia encircled by NATO forces that it has not started a world war by now.
This will not last, Russia will not allow further encirclement. The Caspian Sea region is off bounds for the United States, Russia will blow up the world before allowing it to fall. The problem is that most of the easy access energy resources are there, and the U.S. wants it instead of coverting all the natural gas resources right here in this country to consumer use. I know it is endless and much of what you say in pride is right, the other is greed and not willing to work for the sake of everyone.
What I like people on this valuable site like you said it is, to try to prepare for all reasonable potential disasters. Like you said the dangers of nuclear war are very real. People that practice survival I have found know nothing about nuclear war or the dangers of fallout from any source, like an accident from a nuclear powerplant. This worries me. It reminds me the movie Testament or the British cartoon When the Wind Blows. As I have said before I like the people that visit this site and I don’t want them to ever have to go through some holocaust with no knowledge of fallout and how to protect themselves from it.
Back in the 1950′s up until the 1970′s people were given classes and taught what to do with radiation and fallout. Some of these teachings were outdated and not accurate, but at least the effort was there. It stinks now that there is no civil defense, and with the death of civil defense was almost the death of learning and preparing for diasters. Thankfully now there is a slow resurrection of the survival and prepping movement that was so vibrant 2-3 generations ago. I would not call it like a Phoenix type of rebirth, YET. At least there is positive movement with some people in the right direction though.
Jeremy, your opinion is valuable just as everyone that comments as it makes us think and reason with our own views. I to have become overly passionate about certain issues. I personally cannot stand how Nat.Geo. has sort of exhibited the good people of this site and other preppers for showmanship that sells TV air. I came up with all sorts of colourful metaphors that became unappropriate eventually. You like me and others thankfully comment which makes this site so much more interesting. I wish more people would comment out of the thousands that visit this site each day. That would be fun.
BeInformed, you seem to be on board with the essence of my complaint. You have to admit, it may not be pretty, but I did get your attention.
It’s rare to hear the viewpoint from Russia articulated in the West, certainly the Western media, being encircled by NATO, India, China, Japan, Australia/NZ as they clearly are. I agree the US would never tolerate those conditions, at least not willingly. We get distorted when when cut off empathy and consider our own pespective only.
Horrible movies are just that — movies. They don’t even reflect a fringe minority, let alone base human nature. And it has to be base human nature that has kept the world free of nuclear war for over 60 years. Being rational, not wanting to kill, not wanting to be killed.
Of course we have all kinds of negative traits within us: fascination with death and destruction, especially mass destruction (“what would happen if—”). Desire for power and influence. Need for security. Need to believe in the ability to preserve the ability to defend oneself even if this is (ironically) a suicidal act. Most of these dangerous traits are male.
In my view the darker aspects of human nature have always threatened our survival and frankly have been successfully kept at bay for 10,000 years of civilization, 50,000 of homo sapiens, and the millions of years of our predecessors. Have we not always had to contain our darker impulses in order to work together as a group against the elements and gather food? Ultimately our better selves win out. We act rationally. We have always had the ability to destroy ourselves. Evolution cancelled out most of those genes, which is why we are so good at survival.
With a hair trigger nuclear option, it only takes a momentary slip to end it all. But such a momentary slip is far from inevitable given our fear of death and desire to survive individually and as communities. Consider all of our major wars, the political forces that started them, and the leaders who perpetuated them. Always the leadership, no matter how brash and cruel, acted in their own interests, for the sake of their own power, never to be destroyed themselves. We can go down the list.
But true enough, we have one single major exception to the prevailing influence of self-interest, and we see it everyday on the news. People who believe in ever-lasting life who are willing to die for their religous-inspired cause. THAT is what we have to fear most. Today it is Muslim terrorism. Tommorrow it could be some other form of extremism. But clearly the human ability to cast out reason itself and sacrifice oneself and others for a cause poses a realistic threat to nuclear peace. Should relgious state leadership ever acquire a nuclear program, we are in real danger. Individual terrorists acts even if nuclear are unlikely to start a full scale war as long as states retain ultimate control.
Including Iran. The leadership of Iran is no more willing to sacrifice themselves than any other government. Watch them and it’s clear their goals are strategic.
Jeremy
why is michigan a target? can someone please explain it to me. all of their major cities are gone now
As with any other state, it probably depends on population centers, critical infrastructure, missile silos, military bases, etc… This is part of the reason that I dug through several of the maps that are available on the internet, in order to see if there are areas within the country that are not near target areas. There are a few…
I am currently constructing a home with a fallout shelter in rural Maine roughly 12″ under a concrete slab that will sit below a three car garage. It’s about 20 miles outside bangor. As far as i am concerned anyone who belives the soviets have been “Reducing” thair nuclear arsenal is a fool.And China in producing ICBM’s at an alarmind rate as well as constructing underground bunkers by the hundreds, not to mention a sub base inside a mountian that can withstand a derect hit. It seems that everyone is preparing for a nuclear war but the U.S. government. But let me be clear, the Soviets and Chinese have enugh nukes to hit every thing that is now or ever was any kind of military installation including long abandoned airfields in the desert to national guard riffle ranges. Any government or state ficillity and all state capitals as well as major cities of any kind. They will not obide by any geoneva convention rules and we don’t have the missles to decisivly hit them back 90% of our B-52′s are moth-balled at Davis-mothan AFB. I recently began stock piling and I have a few tips to pass on. #1 use military riffles and handguns, the m-16,m-4,ar-15 all use the NATO 5.56 mm or .223or the ak-47,sks that use the 7.62×39 for extra stopping power or sniping I recomend the m1a1 ,m-14 .308. for handguns stick to a 9mm or .45. #2 I would also recomend a fallout shelter, any is beter than none. If you cant get to one find someone with one or find a big basement with a large building atop, prefferably away from ANY military base or city. #3 stockpile as much food and water as possible, with 12,000 nukes headed our way the fallout will be devastating the longer you stay underground the better. Experts say two weeks but plan on 3 to six months, you don’t want to come out too early and be exposed to deadly radiation .#4 make shure to buy two sets of NBC suits for each person , you can buy surplus suits brand new for $75.00 on-line and the NBC masks for as little as $15.00.
Hoping you get some good engineering help on the underneath the slab idea. A monolithic slab is not intended for structural support. Intended to use the ground for support. Garages and the like.
Really don’t think that large scale nuke strikes are the issue. Small, high altiude strikes for the EMP effect seem more likely.
Three to five could kill 90% of us, meaning USA, in a year.
Be well.
What would be your top ten apocolyptic & post apocolyptic survival tips?
@jimmiv77, I do enjoy lists, although at this moment I would simply say the best thing is to not limit yourself to 10 things. In reality, if speaking hypothetically regarding survival tips for apocalyptic events, the single most tip is to change your way of life such that you are not entirely dependent or reliant upon modern systems. It is a very broad and general tip, though nearly everything else will come underneath it. The degree to which you define “entirely” is up to you and your risk/comfort threshold.
The map can and will change completely if the US adopts a first strike policy decision. Since it’s just malarkey to tell the public that they have defensive missiles capable of destroying any incoming ICBM’s already en route. The odds of striking one of them is the same as two gun men firing their pistols at the same time and the two bullets hitting each other at the mid point. The US best hope is to strike the enemies missiles while they are still in their launch points. They have to hit them before they can launch any of them. That is our only hope to minimize the incoming attack and to survive a nuclear war. You can only hope to destroy enemy missiles while they are at rest, because once they reach altitude and supersonic speeds you can forget about it. And many of their missiles have their own defensive capabilities besides. With a barrage many are going to get through. They must be dealt with when they are at their weakest points on the ground.
@Jake: I would respectfully disagree with 1. your assessment of technical prowess on our part (as well as the Russians) and 2. the strategic conceptuality of of a “first strike” posture. First there are 4+ different ABM systems that CAN and DO stop incoming ICBMs. Hitting one has been possible for 30+ years and the probability of success has gone up with time. The probabilities of success are orders of magnitude greater than two bullets hitting each other (which can be found with regularity on civil war battlefields). In a limited exchange (typical first strike concept) there would be a reasonable probability of stopping most (not all, minimally 80%) incoming RVs. RVs typically don’t have have much in the way of defense other than some modest chaff releases and some jamming, but most of that is done in the last stage of the missile release and is not an active response of the RV coming to target. The RV is in straight ballistic mode (it is a falling rock with very small guidance fins) without any power and is trying to hit a target, so it can’t dance around too far and do it’s job. The first strike concept, while not new, has not been a part of the US stance on nuclear weapons doctrine since the 50s and early 60s. MAD (Mutual Assured Destruction) has been the foundation of all strategic planning and doctrine for both sides since then. It is still the current military strategic doctrine acknowledged by both countries. For a first strike to work you have to be 99.99% successful on the first try (the fly in the ointment) and despite what you said missiles in silos (or where ever they might be, who knows for sure? the Russians like mobile launchers) are not easy to kill with any certainty (the other fly), at least not at a level that would make a first strike a viable strategic option. Any other stance, e.g. first strike, is a much more dangerous policy (the Cuban missile crisis comes to mind) and carries a significantly higher risk of accidental nuclear war (the Cuban missile crisis comes to mind LOL) than MAD ever has. You are right though, about the point that SOME RVs will get through and any number over zero is TOO MANY (that’s why MAD works). The US would not adopt a FS posture without some very significant destabilization or political disruption in the Russian state AND some very credible and astounding intelligence to the contrary of the current accepted doctrine. Also, there are OTHER experimental but FUNCTIONAL, limited capabilities available, for stopping the incoming warheads and I don’t think anyone would risk not using them to prevent public knowledge of them regardless of what treaties it violated. (FYI we did withdraw from the ABM treaty for a reason) IMHO. Survive well. Enjoy.