COVID-19 Coronavirus Pandemic | So Much Worse Than You Know…

Listen. There’s something very bad going on. Right now. In China.

Yes, this is my opinion, and that of MANY others. Based on what has leaked out from China especially earlier. Dribs and drabs of information has come through since, but not much. The communist government of China has shut down most real (on-the-ground) information leakage from that country. And in fact, Big Tech to an extent has been suppressing information as well.

But let me tell you something. I’ve researched this much more deeply than most others among the masses. I’ve read many, many reports and articles. And I’ve seen many videos. What’s happening in China is a major world health implication. It is a major human disaster, and the information we’re getting from their government is orders of magnitude less than apparent reality there.

There is no putting this back into the bottle. It’s out. And it’s a nightmare.

I have a new report, inside information from “on the ground” to share with you, thanks to one of our MSB readers…


Why the mainstream news is not talking more about COVID-19

They have been talking about it more, just of late. But not to any extent whatsoever of challenging so called “official” numbers from China, or addressing any of the reports, tweets, videos, and other information that has leaked out of that country. Nothing. It’s all quiet from our mainstream reporters in this regard.

Why? I can tell you exactly why. And if you ignore this, it will be at your own peril.

Again, this is my opinion. Based on information that I have seen, read, and heard. But this is why COVID-19 coronavirus is being suppressed in the media, by our own government, and by Big Tech controllers:


They CANNOT stop it. The R-naught (R0) is WAY TOO HIGH.

They know it. They are doing their best to manage the public. Putting off panic. Shortages. Disruption. Putting off market meltdown. Delaying the inevitable. Managing the release of information.

If you don’t hear that tree fall in the woods, then as far as you know, no tree fell in the woods. If they can blow the smoke from the fire another direction, then you won’t smell it. So as far as you know, there’s no fire. That’s what they are doing. Managing the breakdown.

Likely A BioWeapon

I believe the likelihood is high that COVID-19 is a bioweapon based on several seemingly scientifically legit and logical reports that I’ve read. Whether released by accident or on-purpose, obviously I do not know. One could support logical rationality for either.

Unless it is targeted at specific ethnicity (still a big question), it WILL infect the entire world. Humankind has NEVER seen this before. Our bodies immune systems have NEVER fought against it. There is NO CURE. It is VERY HIGHLY CONTAGIOUS. IT IS VERY DEADLY.

Try to wrap your head around what the government in China has done, and is doing. Quarantined hundreds of millions of people! Production in China is essentially SHUT DOWN. The R0 is so high, that even this will not stop it. But it’s all they can do.

Actions speak WAY LOUDER than words. Don’t believe the numbers from the “officials”. Do believe what is actually happening there (if you can find out).

This thing is so ridiculously bad, that not only might a person be shedding COVID-19 coronavirus to others for up to 24 days asymptomatic (yes, up to 24 days in some cases!), but listen to this… There are many reports that some of those who have seemingly semi-recovered from the virus, are being hit a second time! This time shutting down their organs and/or heart! A double-whammy.

Okay, enough of my “alarmist talk”. But is it really? I don’t believe so. It’s deadly serious.

A reader here on Modern Survival Blog posted the following inside information, today… I’m not identifying who it is, unless he wishes to do so himself. It’s someone I trust.

It is 100, or More Times Worse

Was having a rather (VERY) serious conversation with my Brother. His wife is Korean, rather well-to-do in SK. Brother is a Minister, they just spent 10 years in a Church/Ministry near the NK border.

Being in the Church there, one becomes very aware and informed from many other areas and Countries aka China. He tells me they know somewhere around 15 other Ministers in China, meaning they are well connected and the info is well trusted.

Brother had a conversation with one of these ministers this past weekend….

“Do NOT believe a single word coming out of China as far as how ‘bad’ this is, it is 100, or more, times worse”.

He went on to tell me there were literally people being locked up and tossed in jail for not wearing a Mask, or being out just trying to find food and water.

YES, just trying to find Food and Water…. Let that sink in….
Nobody is working, or traveling about.

There is zero help from the .gov there; all they are doing is keeping everyone in “Lock Down”. No services at all,

People are dying by the hundreds/thousands every day

Basically there is no escaping the infection.

This Chinese Minister fully expected to be dead within 2 months “at best” because of this Pandemic. In his area he fully expected that more than 80%-90% will die from this. We’re talking thousands and thousands of people, with ZERO help coming from anywhere. BTW, this Minister is in one of the “smaller” towns not directly in the HUGE cities.

When talking with Brother, I could hear it in his voice, the words of complete loss, knowing that a LOT of his friends and fellow Ministers will be gone within 6 months.

Anyone reading this, My brother is a very Honorable Man. I trust his words when he talks of what’s going on inside China AND North Korea.

So why am I telling y-‘all this? Honestly I’m not absolutely sure, for I know there will be those that think I’m full of crap and just telling a story, others may heed the words, and maybe just maybe ‘ONE’ person will start making plans to ride out this current disaster.

I pray this Pandemic does not take hold here in the US and the rest of the world, I’m NOT betting the Farm on that. I fear this is just starting. BTW, has anyone noticed the MSM and News are reporting more and more on this?

As someone I know often says “Up to You”, make your own decisions, prepare for this Pandemic, or maybe the next one OR just keep your head stuck in the sand and playing with your Smart Phone

Up to You.

Pandemic Survival: How To Survive

Do You Have Enough Food To Survive Pandemic | 90 Days?

[Ken adds: I wish I could come up with a logical reasonable explanation as to why we don’t need to be highly concerned about this. What we are being told does not match with actions being taken, and on-the-ground reports of what is apparently happening. Something is highly amiss.]

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Wow Mr. Ken, just wow!

Just read at Zero Hedge that the Chinese have sent a bunch of portable cremation ovens to Wuhan. More evidence to what you posted.

Stay safe, God Bless, Rom 8:28

Stock Market Rose today, because report of death was low. What in the Hell do they read, The black swan is upon us. Be ready the ride will be bumpy. Japan is on the verge of imposing restrictions…

Wuhan just so happens to contain one of China’s most advanced bio-labs, a grade 4, highly suphisticated infrastructure; which – only hours after said break out- was descended upon by the Chinese military. China has not been transparent about what is realy transpiring here. The sheer rapidity with which this virus exploded onto the global stage would lead one to suspect a less organic and much more insidious raison-d’etre, for covid – 19. Not everything is a conspiracy theory, but this one…. this one is a little strange.


Thanks for the report. I am an older man , 75 to be sure am at hi risk for for corona virus. Have my Berkey water filter. have food and meds sock pile. I’m ready, even have masks and all the rest of the protective gear. However I am finding it hard to isolate my self and so is my wife. We decided to wait and see if the virus shows up in our town before we shut it down. As I write this I know how stupid it sounds! Keep prepping and keep praying.


You welcomed me after I made a number of informative comments over the past 10 days. (I have been prepping for years and I totally agree with you that the coronavirus is a significant threat.) I am unable to post. I am posting this using a VPN. I really like this website and I think you have great things to say.

Ken, have a question for you. My husband reads this site everyday. We live in Michigan and have a daughter in Louisville, KY. There is a big gun show and a prepper show in Louisville this weekend that we were planning on going to. I don’t think we should go to the show. Too many people and you don’t know where anyone is from. I say, go visit the daughter and stay away from high traffic areas (loads of people). He says he still wants to go. Doesn’t seem like the smartest thing to do. What say you, or anybody on this site?

Would advise you eat before you go and avoid any concessionary food stands.

I have a friend who’s wife works in a hospital along with his daughter. And unfortunately I can assure you that this problem is much worse then it may seem in the US. I live in Arizona and my buddy has explained to me that they are already out of beds, meds, supplies, and so much more. They are getting robbed on a daily basis just for they’re supplies. 18 is the number put out by the officials, but he has informed me that there are over 50 just in the small hospital that they work in. And no there is no cure like they’re saying, and the death rate is according to him, over 50%

Sir: Something to think about adding to your stockpile are boxes of the ZICAM swabs. If you have to go out in public, use them. And don’t just swab your nostrils. Snort the gel so it goes up into your sinus cavities.
I work as a substitute teacher. When I am called into work, the last thing I do before I leave home is use the ZICAM as I have described. I am around two-legged Petri Dishes all day. So far(knock wood), I have not caught the flu or a cold.

Man on Foot,
You don’t sound stupid at all. Given the confusing, often frightening, often conflicting reports on this virus I think a lot of us are worried. It will be hard to isolate yourselves completely. Perhaps you have friends your age in a similar situation that you can talk to on the phone, or maybe a CB radio?? Lots of times just having someone to talk to helps. ( think of this, when doctors, lawyers, engineers get worried about something what do they do??? yeah consult their fellows and talk about it. ). You are always welcome to post here with questions if you have any. Ken runs a great site that’s why all of us are here. ( just watch out for that TP hording “Viejo” named NRP. LOL)

HEY I resemble that remark….
Man on Foot:
Please PLEASE, nerver be shy from commenting.
This is a GREAT BLOG.
With a LOT of good information.
Please add your knowledge, we ALL are Learning as we go

The name of the virus is now SARS-CoV-2 according to Wikipedia. The MSM doesn’t seem to want to admit it’s a form of SARS.

Man on foot, My DH is 70 and has a medical condition that places him at high risk.. I have some medical things that lower my immunity. We understand… By the time this virus gets to your town and you hear of it, you Will already be exposed. The incubation is so long and people expose others BEFORE they present signs of illness. IF it comes out- this virus MAY be within 200 miles of us we will begin using extreme prevention precautions and take antivirals daily or 2x daily… depending on if we think we have been exposed.. We may go out once or twice BEFORE it gets within 100 miles of us….as we are on limited , tight income.After that we will “be locking the gate”. ..We do not Need constant contact, to be secure in who we are and what we need to do. We have been telling our children to get stocked up… for several months, and they have done what they can…We have books and reading /study material, and communion supplies. so we can remain in our home and have all of our needs/ wants met. This is why we prep, to have the things we need when we need them, not when money is available. we are not near where we want to be…. If we are home and see no one, we know we have not been exposed.. We are rural. have a little room to move around outside. often stay home for 2-3 weeks at a time…especially when we are sick..last year we spent 8 straight weeks at home except for paying 2 bills and picking up groceries one time..while we were out.. Consider making a phone list of people you talk to once a week or those you already see or talk to at regular intervals. Make sure their numbers and contact info is right…Call them and encourage them to remain safe and keep in general contact. Be sure to decontaminate your mail do not touch it til it is decontaminated. pick up a new hobby. wood carving ,whittling., news gathering, gardening.. plant your own lettuce in planter boxes on the porch, patio or in a window. in a cake pan… get the seed now and get some garden soil get good soil and some good fertilizer.. suitable for what you want to grow….for wife? ideas… crafting, sewing, needlepoint, plastic canvass work.. get the supplies now. Make a list of 10 people and talk to one person or two every day… set up a phone tree to check on each other. do it now… before we must go into lockdown… take care of yourself.Boost the things that help immunity Vitamin c and D3 especially important.. zinc, selenium…magnesium.. While you are isolated from others choose this as a time you can do something daily for your spouse. Maybe a foot soak and moisturizer. or foot rub., cutting her nails, giving a pedicure. Now is the time to do all you can to… Read more »

I read the the other day NOT to use elderberry for Covid-19 or any other coronavirus as it INCREASES cytokine storm in the body. If fact, my question to others here is which herbs or plants are anti-viral and do not increase the cytokine storm in the body, causing organ damage or failure. Any one have more info to share?

Also, I agree that if it gets within 100 miles we self-isolate here on our homestead. I knew from the minute I saw medical workers in hazmat suits and the way governments reacted this was no ordinary flu. I have talked to family members to stock up and prepare until blue in the face. I’m done. Most people suffer extreme normalcy bias.

A bigger concern to me…economic meltdown. Although I think the US would be “last man standing”, it could be brutal. Remember, no parts from China, no production. No production, no jobs. And egads, what is holding up the stock market? I truly hope and pray it stays up until after the elections. Fake or not. Crashed economy, Trump loses, socialists win. THAT scares me more than this virus.

Just Sayin’, I meant to add in my post a thank-you for the info on sweet gum. I will see if it grows in my area. (Dogs keep interrupting wanting in and out; we had snow last night). I was thinking of more than just garlic and oregano, perhaps more of the wild plants. I need to go back and re-read some earlier posts here. And thank you for sharing your knowledge with all of us.

Thank you to everyone.

Good book. The Lost Book of Remedies by Claude Davis. Has a lot of natural remedies and tells you how to make them and what they’re good for.

DJ5280, I had seen the same info. asked the questions of someone who has been dealing with virals and cytokine storms…and understands how .why they occur…. elderberry stops replication and attachment in the body…IF IT is already/on board the body when viral s arrive.. If the virus is allowed to replicate with0ut interruption until symptoms arrive then a cytokine storm can result… when the cell die off is triggered…and body is unable.. to rid itself of the toxins released.
Herbals that are effective to stop replication of virals are the KEY…. one is elderberry. and i Know it must taste better than lomatium or sweetgum.

Cytokine storms are also suspected to be the main cause of death in the 1918 “Spanish Flu” pandemic. Deaths were weighted more heavily towards people with healthy immune systems, due to its ability to produce stronger immune responses, likely increasing cytokine levels.

Mrs. U, Ken, Just Sayin’ et al,
Sorry to sound like a broken record here. Just wanted to point out that in Stephen Buhner’s book, “Herbal Antivirals-Natural Remedies for Emerging & Resistant Viral infections”, on pgs 52-56, he talks specifically about SARs and related viruses, and treatment protocols not only the initial infection, but also gives herbs to help control ( & moderate) the cytokine cascades that can actually do more damage (like what was observed with the Spanish Flu). He gives a very detailed medical explanation about what is happening in the body during infection with a SARs type infection.(I have read it several times to try and understand it, but.. “Damn it Jim! You’re a miner, not a doctor!”) Maybe if someone with more medical training could take a look at this reference….. there appears to be strong herbal treatments specifically for coronaviruses that are available to treat this,…. beyond the elderberry juice, garlic, etc.

Very Interesting Ken I tried looking that up and found mention of B=6 reducing cytokine storm in auto immune diseases. However I did not find anything about doses suggested?

Have you found any site worthwhile for this Ken? Cytokine Storm is my great fear as once started really hard to stop.


Minerjim for what its worth you can read those pages on Amazon preview.

Some key notes I saw on first reading. NSAID’s are bad for cytokine storms. That includes aspirin which I remember being mentioned as a new drug used and found bad during the Spanish Flu. The normal give ASA or Tylenol etc. for pain and fever is actually increasing the storm. I would suggest use of cooling wet cloths for fever.

Sugar especially in the IV form is bad idea for cytokine storm. Scary part is that glucose IV is almost a standard medical procedure for sick patients. Hydration and some “fuel” for them. Seems it’s excellent fuel for the cytokine storm process.

His early onset protocol is easy: At first sign of flu, tingling, feeling achy 1 tube oscillococcinum every 6 hours, 3 X daily for 2-3 days. Generally stops it.

Herbal tincture of equal parts fresh ginger root, red root and licorice 30 drops or a full dropper full every hour until symptoms resolve themselves. This solution must be held in the mouth until saliva doubles it volume and slowly swallowed as to have maximum exposure to the affected throat tissues.

Contact treatment. Like sublingual use of colloidal silver and such. However so far I have not read about colloidal silver in this book all herbals. Personally as I can make colloidal silver and cannot expect to find that much fresh ginger easily I would think it’s actions used as described should inhibit viral actions like the tincture.

Good news is these herbs show up all over this reading for various ant-viral modes in many versions of the lethal flu.

Mention of preventive use of 200 mcg selenium and 25-40 mg zinc daily makes sense as modern agriculture products are often lacking these critical minerals and at least I know zinc is a virus inhibitor. Just tastes nasty.

Tamiflu and Just Sayin’s sweet gum tincture shows up often.

Key take away for me is the exponential rate of cytokine storm and how efforts to slow or stop it has to be massive.

After reading this I am stocking up on herbal teas that include ginger, licorice, elderberry in all forms, the recommended selenium and more zinc. Oscillococcinum I will look into. Prevention is far better than fighting that internal war of a cytokine storm.

I hope Just Sayin’ will read the Amazon page as herbals are not all that clear to me.

I guess you really should look at the whole chapter (2) he has written in that book. For Severe cases (and I would think any case of this would be considered severe) he recommends equal parts of the following tinctures:
Chinese skullcap, isatis, licorice, houttuyana, lomatium, red root,
yerba santa, elephant tree, and a couple of others.
There is a treatment protocol in that chapter also. He considers the first five on this list, as well as elder and ginger “the top seven antiviral herbs”.
Don’t mean to get all wound up about this. But here is a herbal protocol to treat this SARs coronavirus. If regular ‘allopathic’ drugs are in short supply or unavailable, these herbs could very well be the thing to keep you alive. Three of these herbs grow wild in the Great Basin of the west.(Isatis is Dyer’s wode, Lomatium is Fern-leafed Biscuit Root, and licorice). Lomatium is the herb I have mentioned that basically got the Washoe Indian tribe in N. Nevada through the outbreak of Spanish Flu without any fatalities.

Minerjim I read it twice this evening. I saw all those you mention and many more BUT I keyed into those items I could really get my hands on and items others on this list could also.

Maybe Just Sayin’ could find us a source for Chinese Skullcap so often mentioned as useful as well as the many others. I would thank her and go buy as much as I could. But I aimed my limited posting (could be a full article) to what I kept reading over and over as MOST Useful in my understanding of his chapters.

Just to treat one person with as much fresh squeezed ginger root would take over a kilogram of fresh root daily and treatment is until symptoms resolve. I *might* have a K of ginger growing in my ginger pots at this time and it takes 2 years to grow a harvestable root.

Thus my focus on preventive and available herbals and minerals.

I hope Just Sayin’ can shed more light on this as Herbals I am but a babe in the sticks.

Dumb question, but….”fresh” ginger and garlic is often mentioned as the best to use for various things. Where would frozen or dehydrated/freeze dried versions fall….need more to be effective, or completely useless? Would the ginger available in the grocery store produce section be considered “fresh”?

Also, received some elderberries from both Frontier and Starwest via the big A. Both are packed in mylar, but without an oxygen absorber. Can/should they be repackaged in fresh mylar with oxygen absorber and vacuum sealed to keep longer? Would like to keep some for potential future needs.

Frozen might be considered similar to fresh IF it was frozen fresh. With fresh frozen garlic, the freezing ruptures the cells so you may actually get more of the useful components. A garlic root in the grocery store is still considered fresh, but it may have been out of the ground for some time. Make sure it’s firm, and if possible shows signs of growth so you know it hasn’t been treated.

Dehydrated, probably not for these particular items. A lot of things dehydration preserves those substances, but with volatile oils they are either destroyed by heat or evaporate off once the cells have ruptured.

Minerjim a few thoughts before I head off to sleep. As this is a reportedly man made virus with segments of both SAR’s and HIV (from memory sorry if incorrect) included this gentleman’s excellent work is advice from “Natural” viruses.

So thus I was looking for the common elements in many of his various viruses and treatments for each. All may work, some may work, maybe some like Aspirin and the Spanish Flu will turn out a bad idea with this created monster.

Step 1 is Prevention. In this case an ounce of prevention is quite literally a pound+ of cure given the sheer volume of herbals to treat ONE patient with some chance of success.

Limit exposure, self isolate, if you must work and shop until folks start literally dropping like flies around us then at least carry a mask, eye protection (as it gets in through tear ducts also) several pairs of gloves and an understanding how to use and remove them properly. Wash your hands before touching your face or anything you care for like your wife. When you return from work-shopping wash your hands, do the whores bath, take shoes off outside home as not to track it in, place outside clothing into laundry or better washing machine for processing. Don’t bring that nastiness into your home. Wash your hands after placing clothing into the washer. Why sit on your couch in nasty flu contaminated clothing friends?

We ARE going to get exposed to this nastiness but we can HELP our Immune System by reducing how much it has to fight against. Our immune systems are always fighting a battle to keep some bug from harming you. Help it.

Establish a sick room, stripped down for less decontamination. Use a fan to create a negative pressure room. If you can get a good quality HEPA filter and UV stuff to reduce the viral load do so.

Enough for now my beloved said. I could retype everything I already typed out here on MSB before but don’t want to become a scold about it. Humans have been dealing with nightmare diseases forever. Read the articles, learn how to protect yourself and support your Immune System to defeat this corona virus.

But please remember some of us will die from it IF it’s not a targeted anti-Chinese man made nightmare. A relationship with your God is as important a prep as a pack of N95 masks.

All good points. Decontamination is crucial. Did it daily for many years when I worked in the nuclear weapons complex, and then doing environmental restoration. I am already starting to source some of these antiviral herbs. Once Spring comes I will wildcraft a number of them.
Your last point was the most important, being right with God. I’m there and ready to go at His calling. Have a good evening.

minerjim I applaud your intent to wild craft Lomatium is the herb I have mentioned that basically got the Washoe Indian tribe in N. Nevada through the outbreak of Spanish Flu without any fatalities. in the spring.

Please let me know what the dosages was as herbals are Medicine and can harm as well as heal. Please let us know how the Washoe Indians used this herbal as food? Tea? Tincture? (unlikely but) to protect themselves.

I’ve been unable to find any information beyond how it saved them from the Spanish Flu from my research. I am hopeful you will find some local knowledge we can share. I’d happily BUY some of your wild crafted materials.

That said I am hoping you will consider my modest suggestion. Get a 5 gallon bucket shred heads of cabbage and mix salt in it as per a good recipe for Sauerkraut add as much crushed peeled cloves of garlic, chopped hot peppers and maybe horseradish to this mixed well batch. Use a dinner plate and a gallon jug of water to put pressure on the future kimchee and allow to ferment for a couple of weeks. There are plenty of good recipes out there so scant on details here.

Make whole carcass chicken soup with some vinegar to get that bone broth benefits out of it. Heat daily a serving and THEN add your homemade Kimchee into it as strong a flavor as you can deal with.

Jewish Penicillin with a Korean Kick. Worked for me over decades of dealing with various flu and SARs and H1N1 and…

I want you around healthy in a month or more friend

The underlaying response of the body does make this worse than we know until the final gasps for air. The sudden loss of consciousness pictured on video’s brings that to forefront. …Cytokine storms and herbals..additional Book Minerjim pointed out…if you have access re-read Elderberry. it is only one of several antivirals that is effective against these “families of like virus..(like in manner of casing etc..)..”The important thing is : We can know how it works and be secure. No need to be scared- be prepared. pandemic dot news new site up today to post all information gathered. some interesting interviews and transcripts… when everyone else is awakening we need to be already set and settled in our minds and by our actions.
Numbers in US have been @ 15 for a couple weeks went up to 26 briefly yesterday and by majic reduced back to 15? Bet China wishes they could do that… Oh maybe they did(gasp)
Numbers of those under treatment remain low..constant for more than a week. Many under imposed quarantine, and many doing precautionary 14 days without supervision.
…..Now that time is known to be ineffective for SOME people. Years ago- they quarantined ships for 40 days….y’a recon we could learn from that? IT could be from a secondary exposure- that has NOT been proven.
Those in isolation in floating petri dishes, are constantly exposed until they are removed from dish and allowed to dry out. Those in rural setting would have easiest time to self monitor/isolate-because would be able to get fresh air…sunshine and heat are a good disinfectants.Heated surfaces would dry out virus.
re specifics-my experience.Colloidal Silver is well known for its antibacterial use. Many yell it’s good qualities, and ignore the fact it is highly antiviral. it does affect the gut flora. Woodland wild crafts has a good selection,herbals with word.I purchased from them under orig herbalist. wonderful ppl. good methods./instructions.pippsisswea and Usnea is used for UTI/URI small dose q4h. works,sublingual preferred -quickens response.have used effectively with ABT for resistant bacteria..Some herbals like elder and sweetgum are safe to take DAILY as a preventative.according to Buhner’s herbal book and the other sources. skullcap is available in capsule forms from herbal stores-they probably have a more secure storage than big A. put in startpage search where to purchase and the item name. seed can be purchased for many herbals. it may take some time to get your home supply stable and useable so IF you can get a good supply of several forms of several items….this is the time! I have no personal experience with skullcap- am one of people can take 1/4th doses of pharma /herbals. DH has taken to take edge off nerve pain.

In 1918, aspirin to reduce fever was a main stay. Let the fever burn itself out.

DJ5280 , It was explained to me… this way..( I thought it was conflicting info and I did not have the background to make both use and non use seem reasonable.)
Elderberry prevents the virus from attaching and taking over cells and hence replication. stop that and you stop whole process . no C storm will result…
IF one becomes ill, by the time they know they have and recognize symptoms the virus is entrenched…Elderberry is introduced and much of the now heavy-viral load dies. This is the C storm..Some hide in other cells and places and are not reached and replicate in new places. By taking daily at least dose of antiviral known to be effective against an organism can prevent the storm. WE will take BID for a while…after any potential exposure…and do a daily dose on days before and after those limited times. Remember many things beside elderberry is antiviral.. go read those articles Ken has published. oregano, garlic and colloidal silver are three others.Some people will not tolerate part of these. Choose your medicine and make sure you have plenty for an extended use.

JS, my thanks for taking the time for an excellent explanation about using elderberry in this situation. I have always had excellent results with using it in the past, and hope to continue using it but only if it is safe to do so. Oregano and garlic already very much in use here, and I will be researching other possibilities for us.

Last Sunday, Feb. 16, SurvivalBlog (not as good as this site!) featured a letter that had several links, explaining why elderberry might be a bad choice to use against Covid19. I have not explored any of the links. For those of you interested in this, this is one more place to research.

Just Sayin’

If elderberry tincture is successful at reducing the viral load then there is no chance for c-storm to develop. The key would be to take it as preventative.

Bam Bam, Exactly.
That is why I will use an antiviral daily, as a minimum.. I will rotate what we have, I have limited elderberry, but plenty of sweetgum , lomatium, garlic and oregano..Any chance i have been exposed i will do a TID for a day, then Bid for a few days as long as no symptoms… and then back to daily.
Per info in herbal book cited here earlier by Minerjim? Elderberry is effective against all of the families of virus that cause distress commonly., they have the same type coating/shell…causing colds, seasonal flu’s, herpes/ shingles and HIV, an d coronavirus’. IT stops replication… It does not get better that that when one could come in contact with a stealth carrier.
WEndy.. we are already there, at other site as well. That is one reason i have kept after trying to understand the Elderberry.. why it works, how it works.

If I remember correctly, elderberry is fine. But NOT the syrup, which has sugar added to it.
oscillococcinum was mentioned above. Homeopaths had good success during the 1918 swine flu. Also, so did chiropractors. Keeping everything working properly increases the immune system in general.
D3 works synergistically with vitamin k2.

It is the syrup of elderberry you need to avoid. It has sugar that feeds the virus.

What is PGA as you are referring to in making tinctures? Pure Grain Alcohol? I have make tinctures with Rum 151. Works but am wondering if boiling the alcohol out after it is made would ruin the medicinal qualities.

From what i have been told boiling will affect tincture.
Drops of tincture into a tea will be fine.
Personally am looking at tinctures like medicine, so an oz or two is negligible.

Farmgirl, the alcohol is removed dose by dose -as it is used to keep the medicinal qualities.If you remove the alcohol of an entire batch it will have to be used quickly.
to remove dose by dose… day by day…. just put the dose in some very warm water.. dilute with some warm water >> OR<< put container in another container…filled with warm water.leaving it open. it will evaporate off.. more diluted less so just by sitting a small container inside a big one filled with very warm water… stir well. or the dose can be poured. ready to take and left to sit in open air overnight. Yes i use Pure grain alcohol have not tried rum… did try vodka and not satisfied it is strong enough to keep for undesignated time frame. the sweetgum leaves are high in water content so one needs to use higher percentage off alcohol for extraction… Sweetgum musst be a double tincture to dose it like tamiflu.

They have shown video of police arresting people for not wearing and refusing to wear a mask. I believe it is shown to continue keeping people in line. I am a couple hundred miles from where it started (Wuhan). On the news, they talk about all the work their doing to save everyone and yet they are still mum on how this thing is spread. There have been multiple positive cases around where I am but no word on how they contracted the virus. For the first couple of weeks, the only businesses open were grocery stores and a couple of convenience stores. The pharmacies reopened later on. Even now with more businesses opening, every place the is a person at the entrance to take your temp and make sure your wearing a mask. Even the apartment complex I’m going n takes your temp and if you refuse to put on a mask will not be allowed entry, even if you live there. They also ask you where you have been as in what places you went to since leaving. They then write Down your name and number. I could go on and on n about the crap that has happened here.

The thing about temperature is a person can take over the counter meds such as aspirin to reduce fever. But that only makes things worse in your body. The fever needs to burn itself out, it is fighting for you to get better.

The numbers for all the other countries don’t support this opinion- lots of cases, few deaths, in countries supposedly without suppression of information.

Wow! From the way it sounds, with health care workers getting infected while wearing complete PPE gear to the increase in infected aboard that ship. I don’t see any other way to avoid the virus if it takes hold in the US but to completely isolate and not leave for anything. I pray it doesn’t happen. I’m still in the minor leagues when it comes to prepping.

Prepper Dan:
Sir, you are lightyears ahead of 90% of the sheeple out there… DO NOT give into the negative side

Thanks NRP,
I’m nowhere near negative about the situation. Can’t afford to be with a family. Staying positive and doing the best I can to help our chances if/when SHTF goes down bro.

One health official posted a Dr was seen interacting with possibly infected individuals without protective gear … and people in PPE, gloves were eating with them on. How stupid are they? those people in that ship are in a petri dish. and now they have released a bunch of them 500 to get on any flight and go anywhere they want… stupid -double stupid.

Problem on that ship is they are breathing the same air. It’s cold in Japan right now. Unless you crank up your heat and leave the balcony doors open (If you’re lucky enough to be on the outside of the ship) you’re breathing circulated air. (IMO. Don’t know that for sure, but most places don’t have air purification units in use.)

– Prepper Dan,
While Full PPE looks and sounds impressive, the simple fact remains that it call all be undone by Operator Headspace and Timing! it is not foolproof. Any fool can foul it up. That’s a fact we had drilled into us time and again. And in this environment, one tiny mistake is all it need to get infected. Normally, working with dangerous virus/bacteria, you change into and especially out of PPE with a partner who won’t hesitate to call you out on the tiniest mistake.
– Papa S.

The doctor who sounded the alarm to fellow medical professionals died from the virus. But not GeForce he was arrested by Chinese authorities and forced to sign a document admitting to spreading rumors. That’s totalitarian gratitude for ya.

I agree that the numbers coming out of China don’t make sense. I avoided all retail stores for the last 3 weeks, also filled my gas tank 3 weeks ago and tank it is still full as I have gone nowhere. Also topped off oil tank. The only place that I still need to go to is the laundromat. Then I hope to be able to lock down for as long as needed.

Please take a deep breath, relax a little bit. YES this is serious and the time will come to hunker down 10000%
Then the US starts to “feel” like the. gov is taking over, THAT is the time to hunker down HARD

Many are already in ( self)quaraneine here San Diego 5000 was number and place i heard… think that is enough to consider it not remember the channel…on you tube… might have been evolutionary energy art.s… .

Well NRP, I figured that there is nothing out there that I need. I looked over my supplies and filled in the holes that were starting to show a little. So why not just stay home. I have plenty to do around here to keep me busy until dooms day, which by the looks of things could be the beginning of it now. If I go to the store at this point, it would be for “wants” not “needs”. Frankly there is nothing out there that I want bad enough.

As of the new current info coming out, I’m starting to agree with you 100%.
No panic, but a LOT of concern, seems this Virus is popping up all over the place, even here in the States.

Look at it this way. The Chinese government lies about everything else. Why all of a sudden trust the propaganda they are putting out there.

Good Job!..we are not quite to that point-yet…getting close. thinking we will need to lock down fully for 3-4 months…since immunio compromised.Blessed to have plenty to do here already..
Things i have thought of.. When you go to laundry mat…be very careful, do not sit down,- go back to vehicle. use paper you can throw away to open door, consider cleaning lids and all “touch points” before you touch anything. take own paper towels and small trash bag, can be used as a glove then pulled over the towels and discarded.ppoint bag away from you as you close……. get coins before you go dump in container and soak in disinfectant water… rinse and drain…/OR use gloves even for those.
… use disposable bags to put laundry basket in.. remove it before you get back in car…. get a bucket and plunger set up to do small batches of laundry if you do not have now… laundry soda./soap. take care good to hear you are hanging in..and on.

A couple of weeks ago there was a long article in our local paper (The Greybull Standard) about a local couple who had relatives teaching English in Wuhan. They said there was plenty of food in town but the streets were empty. The few people who went out wore masks.

About a week later there was a follow-up article saying that they had been able to get out of China. I wish I had read it more carefully or saved the paper. I usually give my paper to a friend who doesn’t subscribe to it.

At the time it didn’t sound too serious.

My friend is not time yet, we all will know when TSHTF, thats why we all have been preparing for.
Breath my friend.
The next 2 months will tell.

… Nrp and Daisyk… I think someone will know within 24 days.WE May not..

. I agree with Ken they are trying to limit the damage.. and ease this balloon down, instead of crashing it.. i think we will bad.within 2 months at most.. We need to be ready for months.. not weeks.. Use this time wisely.evaluate all possible needs. fill as many as you can.

Do not forget your oils.. you will need 3x what you think., esp if you are making biscuits and gravy and creamed meats for main meals….

…Is already in several states..

… They have not tracked down everyone those people were near.

…..a prisoner was released in NY that EMS and fire paramedics thought had this..” shrimp zoo ” posted(U Tube). and keeps posting. he is being attacked by news outlets..that means his info is spot on. he showed the back of hospital badges he has family who work in medical facilities and are scared to come home for fear they will transfer to their kids… Think about it. That would be horrific.

Last i heard the 14 off the cruise ship that were in the last set of 300ish.found to have virus after left ship but before transport completed…. used precautions they could to separate them….. went to Omaha to base there a special containment unit…for medical isolation.same one that handled the eboli.

I have said this before…
Have enough supplies to make it at least 3 mos.
Remember most people are only 3 meals away from having nothing. Most people are not prepared for anything longer than a week, some even less.
The first couple of months will be bad (civil unrest, looting, robbery, murder). Most will be dead or close to it after the initial period. The hard part will be staying “grey man”.
Stay low key. Keep lights off, or block the light going out of the house. Stay indoors during the day. Make it look like you are hurting just like everyone else. If your neighbor sees that you are “warm, fat and happy” they are going to know something is up and come knocking…


Here’s the link to the article you referenced.

The streets here were dead for the first week or so. Only saw a couple of people and a few cars every hour on the street outside which is normally packed. And Gaye’s, the people were wearing masks under threat of arrest. There are more people out but nothing what you would expect from a city of around 10 million.

Yup its gonna suck if this comes to a head here. Still thinking as soon as thing flares up in the cesspool urban centers Me and the fam go on complete lock down Im not gonna wait till our town gets infected.
Still need to head out and get more top shelf booze. Got enough popcorn for the show.

Only thing that worries me that as Ken’s intel stated there is a complete breakdown people are running around looking for food in the china cities. That means with the good ol USA disciplin there will be plenty of gimme-dats kickin in doors around town. May have to also prep for BOL as this thing draws closer. Call it plan C.

On the plus I won’t have to pay the mortgage anymore for a while. Everyone else will stop so I will too 😷

Possible RED ALERT?
The DW just had on order enloops from amazon 2 days ago on prime. Just got an email tonight that the order has been canceled.

I know being paranoid. the supply chain hammer is going to drop at some point.

White Cracker:

Eneloops are Panasonic, a Japanese company. The chargers are probably Chinese, but I think the cells are still made in Japan. Now… the fact that they are a prep-supply, currently unavailable, could tell a different story.

The city I’m in is now on semi-lockdown. Food has not been too much of a problem even when on almost total lockdown. A few shelves were bare but a couple days later fully stocked again. The big thing here is fresh veggies. They are a big part of every meal. People in the apartment building have friends and family who live in the countryside and so we are able to leep well stocked from runs to the countryside. It appears the govt here has been allowing produce and stuff to get through. Even still, the grocery stores were eerily empty. It seems that many people are buying things for several households where one or two people go out in public instead of 10. And YES, there is a security guard stopping everyone before entering the store checking temperatures. If you have a fever, NO ENTRY.

Where is this at? Just curious, doesnt sound like IN

Nope, not IN. Currently in Changsha, China in Hunan Province.

Stay safe

I have troubles viewing websites from the US. Especially ones that have an article or articles that criticism China. I can get on MSB, Survivalblog, and Fox sometimes. Most everything else is either blocked or the download is so slow that it kicks me out. ,eanwhile Chinese website open almost instantly. I can usually only get on MSB every few days or so. The last few days have been amazing in being able to access MSB.

Get a VPN. You can set it to different cities or even countries. Virtualshield is a good one. It dumps all traffic every 24 hours.

I suspected the worse from the begging. My nephew is a medical officer in the navy and he has relayed exactly what you are saying. The navy is very concerned over this virus. The dangerous mishap will occur if people decide to isolate themselves too late. If substantial cases begin to appear in the US, there could be many already infected without anyone knowing. This is not a situation to be taken lightly and should be monitored very seriously. Thank’s for the update Ken.


Completely agree. This moment feels like one of those weather service announcements that warn people in the path of a storm, saying final preparations to preserve life should be rushed to completion.

There was an article on The Epoch Times yesterday that said there were 712 people being monitored in Washington state for COVID-19. Haven’t read that on any other MSM. This news site is “known for general interest topics with a focus on news about China and its human rights issues” (per Wikipedia). And it does seem to have some insightful information. Not saying it’s true but nice to have that info available for my own judgement.

Mom in the Mitten,
The Washington State Dept. of Health has a website with the info listed that you mentioned . The number of people being monitored is 946 if I remember correctly. I am not sure what “being monitored ” really means.

Thank you AC for the site. I have a brother in Washington and will be trying to get ahold of him to see what if anything he’s heard and if he’s okay. If I hear from him will let you all know what he says. He works the ship yard refitting the Navy ships.

khq news , an nbc station in spokane posted almost 750 …have friend that sent me info.nothing confirmed but monitoring them.. link is still active.

my Spidey sense has been yelling at me.. something is happening.. now we know what we need to prepare for. and each roll of Tp bought today, is more than we had yesterday Don’t forget the mucinex with decongestant… ..

There must be some truth in Wikipedia. Otherwise it would not be banned in China just like the book 1984.

“Like all the other companies in China, we are confronted with a black swan event soon after the start of 2020, the novel coronavirus” Daniel Zhang, CEO of Alibaba, in a quarterly earnings call last week (as translated).

“What we have now is a very serious epidemic in China… but outside China there is very little but some transmission from person to person. Once you get multiple countries that have sustained transmission from person to person, then it’s beyond the situation where you can contain it. You can only mitigate it.” And: “What we are trying to do is to pause temporarily and give China enough time to put the lid on this to prevent it from becoming global, and to give us a little more time to prepare.” Anthony Fauci, Dir of Infectious Disease at NIH, in an interview with the Washington Post on 2/10/20.

I don’t know how many people in China could get away with publicly identifying this as a black swan event… but as the CEO of Alibaba he must have enough clout to speak candidly (at least to some extent).

And the NIH guy is clearly walking a fine line, you can see he was trying to say it can’t be stopped, but trying to say we weren’t quite to that point. But 9 days later (now) it already seems we have person to person transmission in multiple countries. So, it seems unlikely that it’s suddenly going to get better instead of worse.

Ken, thank you for sharing this, and to our contributor who stepped forward to share this vital on-the-ground info – thank you so much. As devastating as it had to have been to hear this, its vital that those who are willing to take action to prepare know how bad things are, and how close we are to sailing right off the cliff with this… perhaps we alread have.

It feels that time is very, very short.

Well written Ken.
We as preppers often say “If/When” as an indication of what may happen at some point.
I personally beleive we may now the “If”. Now to the point of “when”.
There is now the conclusion that this is a 28 day incubation period to show symptoms. We already know there are infected in the US and many other Countries.
Several here on this BLOG say they have already gone into isolation, to early? To late? How long will your preps last if it takes 6 months for the real outbreak to show it’s ugly head?
Or are we too concerned about nothing?
I believe we will know soon enough, our Reporters and Social media will be going crazy as soon as TSHTF on this.
I would very strongly suggest to everyone to stock up on ALL supplies ASAP.
I feel the economy is about to feel the blunt end of China’s economy and the shutdown of a LOT of supplies are become nonexistent suce as pharmaceuticals and a whole lot of other STUFF. If the factory’s are closing….. need i say more?

NRP is right. Stock up, keep in mind NECESSITIES right now. Spend your $$$ there.

Some food for thought, 500 Doctors are reported to have died, people in full Hazmat Suits are being infected, take a hard look at Kens Map, look see how big the area in China is.
AND it’s been how long, 4-5 months??? Look at the exponential growth.

Is 600 rolls really enough?
I’m beginning to wonder.

And yet I just read that Macau is reopening most of their casinos tomorrow. Plus all of the people on the ship in Yokohama are being released over the next couple of days. Wonder how all those folks are getting to their home countries and how many will be infected along the way.

And what about that Japanese couple that vacationed in Hawaii (Maui and Oahu I think). How about the unlucky folks who stayed in their rooms or had their rental cars after they left? And how many shops and restaurants did they visit?

I guess we’re supposed to believe this thing is about wrapped up? Next we’ll be hearing Disney is reopening in HK and Shanghai? No good news in my eyes.

So Cal Gal –

Pooh Bear was on the tele earlier, stating emphatically that the disease has peaked and is now waning. I know… lies and deception, etc.. But we will know very shortly if he is right or wrong. The ramifications of being wrong are huge for him. He might just know something we don’t.

So Cal Gal,

I have exactly the same worries. I read that there are 700+ people “being monitored” for the virus in Washington State. What does “being monitored” even mean? Either these people were exposed or they were not exposed. There is no way 15 is the number of infected in the U.S. The federal government is withholding information in the hopes of keeping the stock market afloat for a few more days–long enough for the “folks in the know” to sell off and to leave the retirement accounts of millions in the blank.

So Cal Gal,

Two of my biggest concerns right now are the Japanese couple that visited Hawaii and the Westerdam cruise ship.

600 is more than enough if ya fall over dead from some virus in the first few months of a SHTF!

Ohhhh hell yes, you’re a LOT of help… LOLOL

NRP for you and Blue probably 600 is sufficient.. if you have enough might want to get an extra case, but also gt he noodles and pasta sauce….I am concerned how long it will take to get supplies- re-supplied .

Here is the questions i have been asking self and others… long will it take to get the manufacturing back up across the water or in this country.?. Do you have nails, screws , cat or dog food, to last not only for this event but for the aftermath.Do you have garden seed and enough for at least 2 seasons.? ..How much can you stretch your stored food- with what you can grow. ?

first reported case symptoms were recorded on dec 1. so exposure had to occur in Nov. Dec 31 days. Jan 31 days.feb 20th is 82 days. and they are in MID crisis. People are being welded into apartments, they are starving without enough groceries.or supplies…It is illegal to buy anything to lower temperature or for cough.there. I also saw the info 40 more incinerators brought in.wuhan…

I was there mid-November and those fog-canon trucks were already in use. The car I was in got doused going to lunch, and on the return. Chem-Fog was all up in the vent ducts, filled the car. I thought it was dust control or possibly mosquito abatement. Turns out, the virus was first discovered in late September – they were in early crisis mode for my last visit. Massive sinus infection now, tends to be seasonal, I’ll run with that idea. 4am comes soon. Good night all and good health!

You can get old towels or t-shirts at a cheap thrift store (Or if you’re like us, your size has changed but you wouldn’t get rid of the smaller clothes!) and cut them into pieces . Rinse the worst off, then bleach and re-use.

In addition to the serious biological implications of this virus the feed stock for 70% of medicines, prescription as well as OTC, is from China. I’ve read that India, which is a major manufacturer of medicines, stated they have around a 90 supply of the feed stocks. It may be time to top off the OTC medicines and get prescriptions filled asap as well as things like band aides.

The supply chain of parts for various things that are in jeopardy. A major car manufacturer in the UK is going to shut down in a few weeks due to supply issues from China. This is snowballing fast as other companies in the US face similar issues. Best to get ready now before everyone cleans the shelves off. This will happen as soon as the MSM makes the first comments about shortages on TV. Pray that the schools are out for the summer before it gets a real foot hold here.

Yeah, I am worried about prescriptions. My old dog is now on 3 of them with none of them being optional -well, maybe (but very doubtful)the maintenance dose of Temaril-P. But the lasix and thyroid meds are not at all optional.

Lot of good data on this corona virus over at Worldometer dot info. they cite their references too.

Look at the numbers on the cruise ship to get an idea of the growth if it’s uncontained. It is a subtle j-curve, and the curve is starting to accelerate. That’s approximately two weeks since the first cases were discovered.

I know most folks here are set with food/water/necessities/tp/meds.

Consider other necessities:
Need to replace tires in the coming months?
Need a new carb for that saw/genny?
Need to replace the phone with a cracked screen?
Our non-essentials will be hard to get items. And it hasn’t even hit us or other countries hard….yet.
Most items a person purchases has China written all over it.

Joe C – Don’t worry about spare parts for generators and chore equipment. We have literally tons of them in the CA warehouse. They ship with new goods, as a fixed percentage. You might be amazed at how much of the small engine stuff is totally interchangeable with various ‘brands’.

I’m thinking about a dental visit to get my teeth cleaned early next week …

well we all knew it was only a matter of time before some virus or some new bacteria hit and would kill a lot of people it looks like this it and to be very blunt about it THIS SCARES THE SHIT OUT ME and there aint a damn thing we can do about it get prepped as well as possible we are in the eastern us and if pushed we will be bugging out to a friends place in a smaller town i just hope to god we have enough supples for us all

If you can transfer part of those supplies now would be the time to do it with the permission of your friends. Is there a place you can lock up what you are transferring on to their property?

Kevin, go to 2 or 3 different stores. hit the flavoring ingredients on the dollar aisle..If anyone says anything “getting ready for a family gathering”…. the place you are going will be your family… things like….. sweet relish, roasted red pepper, parsley flakes, onion flakes onion garlic powder. get powdered milk, canned/ filled milk, peanut butter, rice. canned meats. get a limited selection from several stores so you do not set off alarm bells. get 20 lb of rice w/ beans at one store w/ staple foods.. coffee, tea, hot cocoa , a big gatorade/or koolaide powdered. pasta and rice..
.add 2 more gallons of oils.. good quality oils.. olive , coconut, butter .not junk oils… try for 60 lbs total extra rice and pasta with things needed to convert it into meals … velveeta cheese ,canned meats- whatever your family will eat it .This will give a family of 4 basic food for 2 months. Consider getting multivitamins for every member of the family… and giving them every other day… also something you could do. If you know how to make biscuits and gravy …add 60 lbs of flour .6 baking powder and baking soda.get 2 buckets/ or large tote. to put it in. to protect from moisture and vermin.
Most people do not have enough meats in storage. seems to be the hardest to get a variety of.. make sure you get things your family will eat nothing new brands. If there is a garden area hit dollar tree for a variety of seed. garden tools. .. a good book..of wild foods…
Do not forget treats… supplies to make your favorite dessert a dozen times .hot sauce, and any other sauce you normally use…black pepper,

Just Sayin
I just wanted to let you know how much I appreciate your valuable posts and thoughtful advice. You go the extra mile to help all of us here. Thanks so much. Hugs❤️

Terra and All.
You all are welcome.
Glad to know it is appreciated. Sometimes i feel I am being too mouthy. Everyone does not always want advise..
I have been prepping from poverty for a long time.I know the “stretchers” that can be used for many different meals.
I am a natural empath…in that I often can sense stress/ needs of those i contact from the tone of voice and words. I don’t think there is anything more fearful than seeing a train and not knowing which way to jump. We all need a helping hand to encourage us once in a while.

Makes one wonder,
These worldly trade deals are the best damn thing ever.

Congressional Idiots

Our factory has been back to work for 2 weeks already; just got off the phone with them. All top managers are there, I’m not sure if production is back to normal yet. Regarding the ‘closed’ land border with Vietnam… not so much. So long as the correct number of US $100 bills (a LOT of them) are pressed into the right hands, those trucks cross.

Sure, but the Chinese government dont care how many people are “involved” they will produce the goods…
Sarcasm maybe, Fact probably.
BUT your factory’s are back in business…. cool.
And how many people are dead form the virus???
And how many more because of the Chinese government pushing goods?
Interesting for sure.


I’m not sure what to believe; it’s so surreal. Since I posted, two dead in Florida, and I came across an excellent source, corroborating what Ken reported in South Korea earlier. I’m not sure what, or if our guys are producing. I was working with engineers and management… didn’t want to be “that guy” and ask any details. Apparently nothing has sailed from any CN port for at least a few days. On the upside – the missus may be about to eat crow for nagging me over too many preps.


Where did you hear 2 dead in Florida?



Forgive me, I conflated two stories that were back-to-back earlier, one was reported infections-only in FL, the two dead were from the Diamond Princess cruise in Yokohama

Seriously I really REALLY hope you eat that Crow and not the little Lady.
Time will tell.
GOD help us all.
Please don’t fall into the trap of “the company ” blah blah blah…. you need to ask yourself what is right and real, not what other aka .bov, company, news, msm are saying.
Up to You

NRP – Most of my co-workers are from China. A couple of them were sharing grapevine info with me – until this week. Since Monday the chatter has stopped and the body language is palpable. Something’s not right.


Thanks for your response. I was concerned since I had not heard of any infected in FL. Also thanks for all your overseas info.


Thank you Ken and all for a dose of reality. This thing has probably already gone global and is incubating. I saw an interview with a couple who left the cruise ship in Japan and lied about their infected status. You can bet that anyone who thinks they may have been infected is really infected and still walking around infecting others. This is an “all about me” society and those people who lied about their infected status are not the only ones. They just wanted to get home because they already “lost 2 weeks” of their life on that ship. I bet that there are many folks who think of themselves first and no one else…like whom they may have or will infect.

The question is….is it too late for isolation? Are we infected now? I guess time will tell. If I had the ability to isolate now I would. But my DH is still in the medical field, so whether I isolate myself or not, he is not able to.

I agree with many of you…this one scares the crap out of me. God bless and keep us all safe and healthy.

When he gets home have a changing station outside–clothes stay out in the cold overnight or are put right in a bag and go straight into the clothes washer. Shoes stay outside or are put in a box inside and sterilized. Then he goes straight into the shower.

We stopped travel into the US for a few days after 9/11, increased visa security, and continue to limit travel of nationals from countries where identity documents can’t be trusted. We take potential terrorism very seriously.

During the 2003 SARS outbreak and the 2009 H1N1 outbreak several countries initiated evaluations of passengers in airports. It was largely ineffectual.

The fact that we’ve pretty much closed our borders to travelers from China is a massive bellow that this infection also is to be taken very seriously. Though it is said that most infected suffer only mild symptoms, the deadliness of other-than-mild symptoms captured the attention of the highest levels of governments around the world.

Telling people to stay home if they are not well doesn’t work. Remember that during Ebola it was American medical professionals who got on planes and traveled around knowing they were possibly infected.

Those who manage their well-being responsibly will self-quarantine and self-protect to prevent infection when warranted. And it’s still cold, flu, and URI season. Bronchitis has been particularly bad this winter, it seems. Limiting exposure to others is prudent.

NB. Discovered recently that two times when stores are practically empty is during Super Bowl and on Valentine’s Day evening.

Well, it looks like, We the People, will be fighting the next war, with soap and water, instead of gun powder and lead. This is a lot more dangerous fight, you can not see this enemy. If a quarantine comes to USA, don’t expect it to be peaceful.

I’m a hard person to rattle. but, this Wuhan virus scares me. I’m prepped MAX-Q, family on-board, going into almost total isolation. God Bless us all.

Utter incompetence of Gov’t Health Authorities is gonna get alot of us killed. In reality, it’s being run by clueless, incompetent bureaucrats who seem to have little understanding of the very basic principles of how infectious disease spreads.

These bastards who keep the info away from us, well, they are gonna start the panic, because, if it really is this bad, there is no way that the scenario will be keep silent.

Why not just tell us the truth? I know, “the sheeple”, poor bastards, they go first, what a shame.

Stand My Ground,
Gotta admit that this Wuhan virus scares me a bit too. I tend to get “spooked” when I think of the consequences. Then I remember that Our Father in Heaven has got us covered. If we perish from this plague, our souls will be with God. That in and of itself brings me peace.
Off to read the Good Book and prayers. good evening all.

Great point, Minerjim. God bless

I’ve got HT’s show on in the background. I know, he’s a nutter…. but he is making an interesting observation. China – North Korea – and now Iran are at maximum alert with cities locked down. Hmmm. …. Nah.

Commander, US Forces Korea implements elevated health protection measures and travel restrictions for USFK pers due to COVID-2019 outbreak.

Noticed Walmart shelves are getting a little bare on items that they depend on from China. Found plenty of food but some non-food items were lacking and their place on the shelves were vacant.

BTW maybe it’s a good time to count our blessings and have a quiet night sitting in front of a nice fire in the woodstove sipping on a glass of wine with the dog, Blue, in our lap,embracing how good life really is???

Life really is good. Enjoy it as you may, thank you my friends.

Is 600 rolls really enough?

NRP and Blue good point to remember to LIVE. We will all die but how we live is the important part.

As Just Sayin’ said get your telephone list up to date. Encourage each other. It’s a kindness that rewards both the encourager and the encouraged.

Proverbs 18:14 The spirit of a man will sustain him in sickness, But who can bear a broken spirit?

1 Thessalonians 5:11 Therefore encourage one another and build each other up, just as in fact you are doing.

Spiritual prepping is as important as N95 Masks friend. No matter how much we prepare some will not survive this pandemic.

We’ve already posted about how to reduce the amount of contamination of your home from needed coming and goings to work-shopping by Whores Baths-leaving your shoes outside-placing your outside clothing into a plastic bag for the laundry. Don’t track this nastiness into your home as much as you can avoid it. Placing your needed shopping outside on a tarp for a little sunshine therapy will reduce the nastiness on it. Every little bit helps here.

Limiting outside exposure in general also limits how much your body’s immune system has to fight against.

We’ve discussed various anti-viral’s to strengthen our body’s #1 defense the immune system. We’ve discussed eating probiotics like yogurt and Kimchee for live cultures to support your gut the BASIS of your immune system.

The flu has killed humans forever. Normally .1% of those who get it fie from the common flu. However this man made monster has a much higher kill rate as well as a much higher infection transmission rate. If it’s not a targeted Chinese killing Bio-weapon then all of us are at serious risk. If it is a Targeted Bio-Weapon then I fully expect the Chinese will get revenge and that will also be a serious threat to all of us.

Maybe God will have mercy on the 3 letter agency fools that released this Pandora’s box of nightmares.

Thus limiting exposure, washing hands reading and understanding how to properly remove gloves and masks as not to simply contaminate yourself with nasty masks-gloves is critical.

To warp NPR’s line is 1000 pairs of gloves enough?

The most likely source of this engineered virus is the Chinese Bio-Lab, located a few hundred yards from the Marketplace, which specifically uses Bats and attempts to develop various vaccines. This lab has a documented history of leaking pathogens outside of its confines. This virus could have been engineered in this lab for the express purposes of vaccine research…and it merely escaped, without any malice on anyone’s part…but, simply because of poor procedures.

One of the workers in this lab carried virus out of it, after having some of his bare skin splashed with bat blood and became contaminated. This is just one of the documented leaks.

Most of the bio-labs on this planet have the same problem…they leak pathogens, some of which will be unique…as they are modified.

Just as the Spanish Flu killed most on its second wave, this COVID-19 seems to have this characteristic, also. One may become infected and suffer only very mild symptoms, possibly so to be confused with a case of the sniffles. Then, after the initial infection is overcome by the immune system, it becomes hyper sensitive to any new infection by the virus, over reacting to it…and causing chronic illness and death.

Imagine the problem one faces trying to develop a vaccine, which gooses the immune system to develop defenses against an inert virus segment, but which will not cause the immune system to over react and kill, when the actual live virus shows up.

When you see the videos of people walking along..then falling on their faces, unresponsive, LOC, without any attempt to lessen the fall, it shall be from a sudden drop in their blood pressure…or…their heart has stopped functioning properly, or simply stopped. The victims seem unaware they are in trouble and may be perfectly active and glib, before they suddenly drop. What alarms me is the speed and depth of the LOC. Switch on. Switch off.

I am beginning to think it may not be possible for our immune system to provide immunity for this virus, as a “cured” person is susceptible to again being infected by the same virus…and the second infection is when a person is most likely to expire from it, as it causes their immune system to kill them..attempting to “save” them from the virus.

If this is the case, the only solution I can see…is to develop a nucleotide serum can be developed, which alters the virus beneficially. Otherwise, there will be no cure possible, and people only survive each wave, until they do not, without extreme medical attention…but, then each wave makes a person weaker overall…and is easily vanquished by the myriad of other afflictions.

Maybe this is how one reduces world population without political suicide. It is, after all..the prefect mechanism.

What is LOC? Please break down the terminology for this please.


In context, I interpreted LOC to be “loss of consciousness” maybe?

Thank you.

Indeed. Loss Of Consciousness.


LOC = Loss of Control


I have just read a peer reviewed paper, which informs why, and how, this virus is much more dangerous the second time one is infected by it.

Since this is a coronavirus, and has been modified in the lab to include sequences from SARS-Cov, original infection may be survived via immune system response and its creation of specific, neutralizing, antibodies…during which, the symptoms of may run the same spectrum as a common cold, or mild flu. However, the level of COVID-19 targeted antibodies, which continue to be present after defeating the initial infection, reduces, and some of those antibodies become Sub-Neutralizing and NON-Neutralizing…meaning they are no longer able to fully function against a NEW infection of the virus.

But, most concerning is the FACT these old antibodies then actually INCREASE the danger to the body, during secondary virus infection of the COVID-19, via ANTIBODY DEPENDENT ENHANCEMENT, or “ADE.”

ADE allows the antibodies from a FIRST COVID-19 infection, to act as a “GUIDE” for the COVID-19 virus, for any following infection. The Sub & Non Neutralizing antibodies attach themselves to the COVID-19 virus, but…in doing so…act to provide the COVID-19 virus a TOTALLY NEW PATHWAY FOR THE VIRUS, INTO THE BODY, VIA ANY Fc-RECEPTOR-EXPRESSING CELL!!

The old antibodies bond with the pathogen, and in doing so, add the antibody’s OWN CELLULAR KEY for Fc-Receptor-Expressing Cells, NOT JUST THE ACE2 receptor cells!

We have seen this antibody dependent invasion mechanism in coronavirus for many years. SARS-Cov is an example.

So, instead of obtaining an immunity from COVID-19, our own antibodies will create an entry path into our bodies via the Fc-Receptor, on secondary infection.

Good luck with vaccines! Cure the common cold yet?

I do recall a lab or labs working on a generically modified enzyme as a “cure all” for the commons cold. Also remember a physician stating that it would be rather difficult do to the different variables which make the genome of what many refer to as the ‘common cold’.

It makes me wonder if the flu that the students brought back with them during the holiday break could have been mixed with the SARS virus. Because of the reactions to the flu at that time & the medical staff removing their semi-critical patients out to other rooms. So those that those who came in could be in a controlled environment.


Interesting info…do you have a link to the paper? Would like to forward to some alt-med friends working to figure out how to handle this thing.



I think I read the same paper. Please double check–I think this paper was about MERS and not COVID19. Please correct me if I am wrong. We may have read different papers.

BTE referencing to whore baths that I’ve used in many flu outbreaks as a Hospital caregiver my haircut has always been Marine Buzz and no facial hair.

Hair is a wonderful reservoir for viruses and bacteria to hide in. Do as you see fit but allot more time to wash your hair when your decontaminating.

Also fitted masks like N95 need clean skin to work properly. Facial hair breaks your seal as air like water flows the easy route and a tuft of a moustache outside your mask IS the easy route for air flow.

A sober topic Ken. I’m forwarding it to family in Laos with Chinese friend.

So I’m curious/wanting advice. I have plenty of supplies so feel ready to isolate when the time comes (if we can tell exactly when that is). My question is related to my financial situation. We are living on retirement income, much of which is still in the stock market. I think we can all agree that this is going to have huge implications on the global economy. So should I be thinking about moving my investments out of the stock market and into something less volatile, bonds?

This is a decision you will have to make for yourself. I too have a good bit in the markets and the only difference between us is you are living off of it and i will be in a few years. Just my opinion but aside from the fact that I have been moving some of my money into cash and bonds as a hedge against a market drop ( about 30% ) I am not really going to do anything. I had already move those funds before any of this happened. Again just my opinion but any market drop on this will do one of two things. It’s either going to take a hit that it WILL come back from in which case we will just need to ride it out or it will Go To The Bottom in which case moving it to a safer position isn’t going to make a difference. Hope this helped

You have to decide for yourself. Ask why you want/need investments or investment income. That answer might help guide you to your next moves.
We got out before the 2008 mess. We have intentionally stayed completely out of all stocks…it’s a disgustingly corrupt system. We’re so liquid that we slosh.
We’re retired, live within our income’s means (pension and SS) and we only use a credit union. We never planned to live on investment income. If the pension income drops/flops, it is what it is…. And that is why we live low, without debt, and have planned for economic collapse. Looks to me like Wuhan will be the ‘trigger’.
Good luck to you and your decisions!

I have all my assets buried in a Tin Can in the back yard….
AND in TP…


A big factor has to be your age. I hit the big 50 this year. I expect to work for at least another 15 years. That’s reasonable, given my profession. Still, I dropped some stocks (last week) that were heavily exposed to the Chinese market–Apple, Starbucks, Disney, and a few others. I sold the stocks and just told my agent to keep the money in cash. That will give me options.

I really hated selling Apple. I got in early and have made some money. I agree with what has been said so far that the virus has been spreading since at least September. Supply disruptions are the immediate concern. If factories in China remain closed through March, there’s a second problem that I think hasn’t been fully appreciated. The U.S. is too dependent on Chinese goods (and ingredients). If these factories remain closed businesses will begin to diversity supply chains. The trade war started this but delays in Chinese manufacturing will amplify the issue.

I think China will retaliate. Corporations that pull orders will not be permitted to sell in China. This would tank Apple as much of their profit comes from selling in China.

I would love to hear what the rest of you think. =

Just watching Lou Dobbs. Looks like the Chinese cover-up has delayed a vaccine. He has been warning about this virus from the beginning.

I live in North Idaho and was just watching our local news at eleven this evening and was surprised and furious to find out we have had five confirmed Corona virus patients that were just brought in to Sacred Heart Hospital in Spokane, WA. The local news says the hospital was not giving out info about who they are or where they were from. Supposedly a news conference is scheduled for tomorrow. To me this is a big deal folks. Be prepared, be smart and be ready!

I read about this today. Sounds like they are patients flown to Spokane from an air force base in California that were originally exposed on a cruise ship. I also read that Sacred Heart is only 1 out of 10 hospitals in the US with secured airborne infection isolation rooms. If their are only 10 hospitals in all of the US with these specialized rooms we are in a world of hurt if/when this takes hold in the US.

Look for Dr Chris Martenson (Peak Prosperity) or Dr John Campbell on Youtube. They both post daily analysis about the developments of the pandemic. They are not alarmists but still very worried about the situation.

I second Timo’s suggestions. Peak Prosperity and Dr. Campbell are two of my main sources.

Not IF Not WHEN. It’s here and yes it’s being covered up.

When it comes to light there will be panic. YES PANIC!

This shituation is not being handled correctly by our gov. So there will be panic and other issues.

Prepare as best you can.

I to have been following the corona virus with great interest. A friend who is a first responder was given this thru Homeland and the CDC. I was told there was nothing classified so I could share this.

The CDC’s working position is:

a. It’s a lab made virus, and it’s not ours.

b. It’s not a designed biological weapon. The death toll is way too low.

c. This is a potentially terrible plague in third world countries like China, Southeast Asia, Southwest Asia, Africa, and South America. If it establishes itself as local epidemics in those areas, tens of millions to hundreds of millions of people will die.

d. The CDC’s stated position for the United States is to “just let it burn itself out”. Their expectation of a death rate in this country is on the order of 0.025%, only 1/100 of the Chinese experience. Keep a patient hydrated (IV Fluids) and oxygenated, provide antibiotics as needed for pneumonia, and patients will probably recover. Certain “important” groups may be given antivirals which are working in some cases.

e. At the end of the day, the CDC doesn’t expect COVID-19 to cause enough “excess deaths” to make this look any worse than a bad year for the flu virus … if we keep clean and don’t unnecessarily expose ourselves.

f. All doctors and hospitals are required to review and update their documents related to reporting requirements and isolation procedures should the situation worsen.

Alrighty then!

Ahhhh…because it started in Asia?

Ision I notice your very careful in your speaking. I notice what you didn’t say about the rest of my post.

That’s Concerning as you have never been shy to speak of bad Troubles in your posts.

Well, I am under restrictions to what I am able to say in this forum. I am under these restrictions for life.

When it comes to certain topics found in your comments, I may not be able to legally address them, as doing so could result in my going…bye, bye.

All people with my history will be under such restrictions.

Ision Understood and I thank you for what you have been able to speak about.

If this is what the CDC is telling first responders…they are simply trying to keep them on the job and confident…so they are lying to them.

Since the virus was specifically designed to unlock human cells for entry (all of the splices relate to the spike proteins), and since no herd immunity exists, and no vaccines exist, and no serums exist..and it appears prior infection does not create immunity; to say the death rate is .025, is simply absurd on its face.

From what I have heard here in NY there is a 1st Responder gag order…

As I would expect.

No need to inform a fearful patient that their fears are probably not only founded, but their current level of fear is probably below what they should be….

You tell the gut shot guy, whose bleeding your cannot stop, “Don’t worry, Bud! It ain’t that bad!” As you are about to gork him on morphine.

old lady, This statement appears to be more of a list of notes turned into a brief message that was communicated to service employees outside of Federal agencies. It looks nothing like an official DHS communication whatsoever.

It was paraphrased, not exact words

I had ordered face masks about three weeks ago or so off Amazon, not knowing for sure they were made in China. I received an update that I should see them between 2/19 and 3/11. Another week went by and I received an email through Amazon from the seller that the shipment was stopped by customs and was to be returned to the seller. This is when I found out for sure that the masks were from China.
We hear about the supply shortages etc., and here is customs stepping in to stop a shipment from leaving the country. Just how bad are things over there?

So, this virus is probably a lab virus, perhaps one they would use to MAKE a weaponized virus? And it got loose? Just speculating here. Also, the very first thing I thought of when I heard this (and saw the hazmat suits) – was the Georgia guidestones. Weird. The one about reducing the population of the Earth. And then I think about China suffering pig ebola, and again the bird flu decimating their poultry production, and here is the big question: Can China feed its massive population anymore? The mind connection here is almost unthinkable. But what about all their ghost cities they’ve built? They’re still empty, aren’t they? This boggles the mind when you stop and consider the possible true numbers of people infected or dying. Egads. Especially if it goes all the way back to September. Does that mean we may not see numbers rise in the US until weeks or months from now? Even with spring and summer approaching…I don’t know. (With GSM approaching on top of this we will see crazy weather patterns and cooling temps over the next decade or so. I have garden seed, but am looking for more short and cool-weather crops to add to our garden). I join everyone here in praying this does not escalate further to a full-blown, deadly, global pandemic.

Too late.

I have to agree. I think the next 10yras are going to see some very turbulent times for humans…

DJ, Buy PVC and bubblewrap/plastic in very long lengths. Learn about ‘grow tunnels’. Read Eliot Coleman.

In the very near future, fresh produce will be considered too dangerous to eat or handle unless you or someone very close to us is growing the products.

Yep.. Santa was very, very good to me this year. My grow tunnels and row covers were under the Christmas tree. I also LOVE my greenhouse. My figs and lemon trees are in there, herbs, greens (for us and the chickens), etc. Its small, but fantastic!

DJ, So very happy for you! Can you share what Zone you are in? I am wondering if you use forced heat or any radiant heat in your GH.

We were cleaning ours out today to make room for the grow beds. I’ll be sowing in there very soon. Good thing because my dining room looks like an Arizona greenie’s Earthship home crash-landed in there with all of the plants, flats, and lights. HA!

Grow zone 6. I do use a tiny electric heater at night set on a thermostat. Just through the coldest part of winter. That and a wall exhaust fan came with the greenhouse, My greenhouse is double-walled which makes all the difference. The plants have not needed lights or lighting of any kind, and I wouldn’t want neighbors or anyone else to notice the greenhouse out back. Tho lights came with it I have not installed them. It can also withstand 80+ mph winds. I bought it from Costco. It was delivered, and we put it up in about 3 hours with the help of our grown son. I am now letting all of our winter greens, bok choy, radish, chard, herbs, etc. go to seed in there. I want to get better at seed-saving this year. Have dug out all my seed savers books to read shortly.

DJ, thanks for the info. I may experiment this next Winter to see what will live through a ‘cold spell’ in there. We originally built the GH for orchids so I had propane forced heat to keep the night temps around 58-F during Winter. The orchids did really well through the Winters here (Zone 6/7) but it was an expensive past-time. lol It made more sense to grow edibles. Ha!

We have ceiling lights which are handy after dusk/dark, but they’re not used much at all.

Good for you with saving seeds! It’s so fun to do, and there is a true feeling of empowerment when you save seeds for the next year. If you get more than you will use, try sprouting some of them to eat. You’ll really be hooked then!

Exactly what came to my mind, those damn georgia guidestones and the dreaded agenda 21. Even if this is not an engineered virus, it seems to be designed to remove populations quickly. Sometimes I think of the planet as an organism, perhaps this is the planets immune system at work. We know, historically, things like this have occurred, and we are past due for a mass extinction event, maybe this is it? The hubris of man in thinking we are in control of nature may be about to be bitch slapped back into reality.
Or, it is a bio-engineered virus that escaped, either way, the statement about hubris stands.

Some thoughts.

Seeing a lot of predictions of coming panic when “the truth gets out”. I’m not one to panic, never have been, don’t expect to start now. I would like to believe that you folks aren’t either.

Don’t have a clue how this COVID-19 is going to play out. Pretty sure we ain’t being told the truth. We seldom are. Is it bad? Well, it is for those caught up in the epicenter, for sure. For the rest of the world? That should become obvious in two short weeks.

We are preppers (or at least purport to be). That’s who and what we are. I can see no reason for panic. The basics for life and survival remains the same. Either you are prepared for an extended period without resupply, or you’re not. Sanitation concerns have either already been addressed in your preps, or not. If not, you have a short window of time to, not panic, but quickly and methodically going about filling those holes in your preps. Panic is what one experiences when death is staring you in the face and you know you have no way out.

Most of us have always known, and prepped for, the possibility there would be a time that we would have to isolate from society for unknown periods of time. This current threat may, or may not, be one of those times we expected could come.

Dennis, Thanks for the plainspeak.
Personally, I’m not in a panic-mode, but I am very concerned about trying to understand and define what COVID actually is. So far, this virus appears be a man-made biologic that we can’t clearly define, so I feel that I am inadequately preparing for it. More than likely, COVID will become a serious disrupter to our standard of living/lifestyle, too, by interrupting our economy, our financial stability, our consumer-driven Market, and probably more, especially if family members become infected. When I think of COVID, I think multi-disaster.

Modern Throwback,

I too believe that the one, indisputable, unavoidable (now) outcome of this current COVID-19 scare is the devastating economic impact world wide. Too many countries, definitely our own, have turned over production of too many items, to China and it’s much cheaper labor and almost non-existent pollution regulations.

We are dependent on China for parts to keep our food production, water treatment apparatus, transportation network,………(I could go on and on), going.

No matter what medical ramifications occur, if China suffers a long term loss of production capacity………..we, and the rest of the world are screwed.

I’m reminded of the old admonishment “don’t put all your eggs in one basket”. The world did that in turning production over to China and it’s cheap labor pool. We may be about to pay a huge price for that blunder.

And the merchants of the earth will bewail her?

MT and Dennis,
I am also thinking along the lines of a multi-faceted disaster – both medical and financial.

I think a lot of consumers have no idea how much comes from China (and Asia in general). DH tried to talk about this with MIL related to their investments, and she came straight out and asked him why one would have anything to do with the other. It never occurred to her that the economic impact could be anything from bad to severe.

So, I’ve printed off a couple of articles and will be sitting down with them tonight to try to explain that this is not panicking, but using logic and reasoning to assess risks. We’ll see how it goes.

Show photos of the docked ships over there.
And be sure to show some of the shipping charts.

Here’s a few paragraphs you can read her from a Bloomberg article today, “Commodity Shipping Costs Fall 99.95% After Virus Slams Market” says:

The coronavirus crisis in China has hammered many markets this month. None may have felt a bigger impact than freight.

Rates for giant Capesize ships, typically used to carry raw materials such as iron ore, plunged 90% from a September peak to less than $4,000 a day based on an index that tracks their earnings. A wider Baltic Dry Index more than halved in January to hit the lowest since 2016, as the worsening outbreak brought an already-weak freight market because of the Lunar New Year to its knees.

The plunge in shipping rates underscores just how much pull China has in global commodities markets, with the virus upending everything from oil futures to copper prices.

Good assessment of where we all stand at this point in time. You are absolutely right, now is not the time to panic.

Gee, whiz…

I wonder if existing pneumonia vaccines, already being given to those 65 and over, and the standard Flu shots, batched up, every year, might actually be acting to create ADE (Antibody Dependent Enhancement) reactions in those first infected by COVID-19, who advance to the critical stage? Note how the inoculated medical personnel, including the highly trained and protected, are dying from COVID-19…on their first infection.

Note too…how children, with inherently weaker immune systems are also being ignored by this virus to a great extent. Perhaps they are not providing as many pathways for the virus, as might someone with a “super” immune system, which may ward of the first infection easily, only to have produced a terrific quantity of left over sub/non neutralizing antibodies….which then act to guide a new infection directly into the cells via a much broader and diverse freeway.

What you are saying about the immune system over reacting upon re-infection makes me wonder what the is the susceptibility to initial and/or re-infections someone who is on a medication like Humira . I know that these meds reduce immune system function, but is it in a way that is completely unrelated to what you’re talking about?

There is no evidence to suspect Humira for acting as an ADE agent, which would enhance COVID-19’s ability to enter a cell.

You see, it is when a sub/non neutralizing antibody, which was created by the immune system to specifically attack COVID-19, attaches itself to this virus, during its SECOND infection, which enhances the virus by providing additional pathways into our cells, via the Fc-Recetor-Expressing cells.

Humira does not act in this manner, but acts to fight inflammation caused by various autoimmune diseases. It acts to block TNFa and will not enhance COVID-19.

Antique Collector…

I am familiar with current attempt to create a PANvaccine, which is designed to be able to be effective against virtually ALL viral flu pathogens, by targeting more commonly expressed genetic characteristics they all share.

This approach as shown to be possible in animal tests being conducted in South America, using pigs. However, the process involved in imparting this pan-immunity is quite extensive, and the work now is to try to reduce the process to a realistic level, so it can be accepted by the populace…and so it can actually be produced.

But, no testing regarding secondary infections are being conducted and whether ADE may result.

Interestingly, Bill Gates has involved himself in the funding.

Down goes Hynix. Wow! Ken your gut was 100% spot-on over Korea. 9 dead in Iran now, so maybe the ethnic affinity isn’t so. Now I feel the panic creeping. My tech support center is comatose this morning, call volume is literally decimated. It seems everyone is consumed with other priorities.

This is still mainly an asian thing concerning deaths.
It’s racist.. where are the SJW’s ?

It will kill compromised others, definitely but the “who” died is never detailed
as far as ethnicity.
Older, sick, respiratory issues, these are the ones going first.
I’m waiting for details of non asian deaths before I start to worry and specifically
here at home.

I can not worry because I have what I need.
In the medical field..

I do have a new hat coming from china that will arrive within the next week.
all excited.

I read from ISION above the (un)official death rate of .025 wasn’t stated
as world wide so I’ll assume it was national here in the USA.
That’s still over 8.7 million possibles.

tmcgyver, Please let your co workers know we are and have been praying for their people as they struggle with this illness and aftermath.

Just Sayin’ – This has to be the nicest, sweetest thing I’ve ever come across while handling a midnight wake up. Thank you! Some of them are genuinely frightened, not just for themselves, but one lady over there has been adamant that I not fly to Atlanta next week. She has been blessed with a strong, Christian faith; and she has been imploring me not to go. Surely the greater concern is that they will all catch my disease, then share it with them. But at lease a few are adamant that I not get hurt trying to fight the illness. She tells me to talk to Jesus and seek advice. Since I’ve been involved with the Chinese culture for many years, I can tell when the stated concerns are genuine; these are; and it feels good.

Thank you for your kind words of concern. Ahhh the Ambien is kicking in. I’ve now got 3 more blessed hours to sleep. Hopefully there will be more work, at work tomorrow. I don’t handle boredom well.

tmcgyver please eat a lot of fermented foods and wash your hands before touching your face. I want to hear from you in a month healthy friend.

Reeking of garlic maybe the sweetest smell of protection.

If you wish to have a chance, do it now. In a week, your options will may be reduced and the “optimal solution” will become, “Well, it’s better than nothing.”

The idiocy displayed by Japan is astonishing. If the Japanese are idiots, most of the world will be moronic.

I now believe this pandemic will pop every bubble and expose every weakness in our societies.

People will die FROM the COVID-19, and just as many…if not more…will die as a RESULT of it..But ALL OF US WILL SUFFER FROM IT.

And TPTB will use the fear of it to institute more control over our lives and the sheeple will beg for it.


You certainly shall be more controlled.

If I have a cure for this pathogen, possibly a cure I have had on the shelf for several years prior to the pandemic, I shall enjoy the power of life and death over vast numbers of my fellow human-beings. Nothing says I must provide this cure to all comers. Nothing says everyone shall actually receive the cure…and not a placebo, instead.

What power, eh?

Just make sure you do not help perpetrate the POTB.

If you placebo the ass hats that think they rule the world, I can die peacefully, knowing you have my six so my grandson has a better world to grow up in.

It seems to me there is really no way to be 100% safe from this pandemic. Yes were prepped, enough ?isolated from the masses enough?clean enough ?This thing could roll on for months, years,this maybe the beginning of the end, for most of us.No matter how prepared, careful,isolated, we are , everyone on this planet breathes the same air . The same water we use goes back to the clouds comes back to the Earth as rain. We have poisoned our planet into eventual ruination. Yet we can only do the best we can for ourselves and hope for the best. This is possibly going to be the thinning of the herd as we know it.Stay as well as you all can, and may God bless us.

Hey all concerned… I agree with you all.

Ision, Exactly all will suffer from the effects of this.

Here is my take… i also have been watching. trying to gather information, since it became public…It does not matter who started this crap pile.Whether it was intentional, accidental ..was with bad intent or not.

The working and working poor, the dissidents, the protestors, the dissenters, everyone but the most upper crust of the Chinese will be suffering immediately.

We see that in the postings of doors being welded shut and building s burning.. People with symptoms sitting on beds within 5 ft of another bed., no real barriers, roofs of “new facilities” leaking. “everything is ok …move along”..the Drs are doing the best they can,.. as are all the medical personnel.. they admit a huge number are sick-and they say only 5 have died… yeah, right..

The ripples will become gigantic waves.. as those exposed on the cruise ship were released yesterday.. those who are asymptomatic and were exposed in the day or so prior to their release will be shedding virus every where they go and everything they touch will hold the virus for anywhere from 7 days to 9 weeks depending on the surface.

If I know of those who have traveled on a floating or air based petri dish, i am staying away. Our final things are being done during the last week of this month….we will only go out for things that are necessary..until we choose not to… We fairly certain- that time will come within the next two months.. between now and that time we are doing what we can to ramp up our supplies… We have to be selective, and make the choices best suited to the projects we have in progress.

Yes supplies are already limited of certain things.. the pre treatment i have used for several years is no longer available in size i was buying…some of those shelves have big empty spaces.

I have based personal responses to…this potential crisis on my opinion. I have no ties to anyone or anything official in any manner… I believe.

We will not know the total effect of this until the history books are written… on the Chinese OR the World… WE all know who writes history books- the victors.

We will not be privy to the truth. Everyone who had anything to do with this will be sworn to secrecy and/or killed so they do not release information.

I am responsible to God, my self, family and my spiritual family. everything else follows those… I will do my utmost to serve each responsibly .Knowledge is power… will help me -keep our family safe… One of the reason i do research and come to this site… Thanks Ken

Amen Just Sayin’ Amen. Your last sentence is the most important.

I am responsible to God, my self, family and my spiritual family. everything else follows those… I will do my utmost to serve each responsibly .Knowledge is power… will help me -keep our family safe… One of the reason I do research and come to this site… Thanks Ken

Thanks Ken indeed! The best site for practical prepping.

Hope in a few months we can chat about better things.

Micah 6:8 And what does the Lord require of thee? To Do Justice, to Love Mercy and to Walk Humbly with your God.

P.S. Thanks Ken for all you do for the research and all your articles you and all the Msb family have helped me a lot to be more informed and I am better off because of all of you.I value what I read here more than Anything else I read daily.

If anyone has not seen todays MED CRaM they need to see it..Is about 5 minutes….Gov. reports..pictured… they are saying the people who are coming off the Diamond Princess will not be boarding any plane… for 14 days. That will help contain some.exposure..never-mind the fact there will be a percentage that shed virus after that time and those who have longer incubation/ and become active…. so-o-o-o not good.. but will buy another couple of weeks from that sector of exposure..
Now to get Public health officials to admit to how many people are under voluntary isolation and monitoring self for any symptoms..
One possible answer is… they have NO IDEA . They have not taken the manpower to trace down everyone who went to China to the area.
Responsible people will maintain self and distance from others for a minimum of 14 days and anything up to 28 days. We will always have people who are not considerate of others and show no responsibility. These are the wildcards. Our worst danger…Take care and be proactive. not reactive.

Yes, me too also.

Bam, and others who mentioned

Here’s how WA State chooses who gets monitored:

“The number of people under public health supervision includes those at risk of having been exposed to novel coronavirus who are monitoring their health under the supervision of public health officials. This number includes close contacts of laboratory confirmed cases, as well as people who have returned from China in the past 14 days and are included in federal quarantine guidance.”

Ken,, thank you for all the information, suggestions and research you have given us. We are safer because of it. IMHO, the experience and knowledge level of the blog participants is very high.

We have not yet gone into isolation and self-quarantine; but we have implemented the do-not-wander-around-the store rule. We pre-order, pre-pay and pick it up – in-out, 5 minutes max. We are we are wearing masks, gloves and eye protection and once home are spraying down most items with a bleach solution left in the sun to dry. Fresh veges get cleansing protocol. Delivered packages are sprayed with bleach solution. While I normally pay cash for most everything, I have switched to card payments to avoid having to touch dirty, germy money.

The last of the orders are in and I am comfortable that these came from existing USA warehouse stock (1-2 day delivery times) before the the outbreak of the coronavirus in October 2019. We now have a comfortable supply of high use items, but much more of other items. When the virus gets closer to our state, we will initiate isolation and self-quarantine. Until then we just do the best we can under the circumstances.

Hello folks

Long time reader of this site learnt so much from you all thank you all so much. I thought I’d get the first post in while I still could .

Even if we agree disagree on the numbers infected/dead the effects of this virus have been staggering on global logistics

Since the end of the China LNY approx 1.67 million TEU, ( twenty foot equivalent i.e. Shipping containers ) have not sailed from China. Prior to the LNY approx 1,000,000 containers were not moved.

2.67 million shipping containers not moved to market.

There are now over 100,000 fridge (reefers) containers stuck in China

South American fruit/ veg growers already can’t export product to China. Fridge containers are still full in the docks in China with perishable goods
Shipping lines are diverting container ships to non Chinese ports to off load cargo

The gaps on your shelves will be apparent early march we will be about a week behind.

The cascading failure will be immense. I hope I am wrong I really do. I have always prepped for a supply chain failure and always expected it to be oil /fuel & the Middle East not the entire world .

Good luck & hopefully we will all be around to laugh at this in years time. On a zerohedge today 1 poster remarked he heard about the Corona virus a month ago .. …..

Over the pond:
Thanks for the comment.
I totally agree with the fact if the Virus does not get you/me/us, the upcoming economic crisis will…..
This is going to effect a LOT of people really REALLY hard

Your good with 600 rolls….
Unless of course the residents of the bunny ranch in Nv descend on yer homestead cause they rememberd you invited em….

Shame on you for giving up NRP’s secret. ROWFL

NRP was taking a flight on an airliner. Sitting next to him was a Baptist preacher. The stewardess approach them with a tray of drinks.

She asked NRP if he would like a glass of whiskey. “Sure”, NRP said.

“How about you, sir?” she asked the preacher.

“I would rather be assaulted by a pack of immoral prostitutes than to let whiskey touch my lips!” the preacher says.

NRP hands the glass of whiskey back to the stewardess. “You didn’t tell me we had a choice!”

I friggen LOVE ya dude

On a personal note,
Be a helluva way to go out though eh!

What flight was that and why wasn’t I there? lol

and 95% of the population will be like “Why can’t I get XYZ?” “Why are the shelves bare?”

Personally, wont matter much. If at all.
But for wallmart/ebay/target/amazon/etc hand to mouth shoppers? Maybe.
101 reasons why globull izm is a bad bad idea

But…but…globullism is the answer to everything! Need MOAER!

It sure would be nice to get truthful reports on this virus and still stay within the PC mode.
What are the nationalities of these infected people, all over the globe, out side of China?
Japan is now tied with Singapore with those infected. 84 cases I believe. Has doubled within a month?
We receive containers from mostly Japan, Philippines, A few from China, France.

Received second hand news today that our plant manager had been out, sick. Eight days with fever.
He is Caucasian… he a carrier?
Has he been to China since December? Japan? Has he had meetings with possible carriers? Hospitalized/ stayed at home?
I don’t know.

Sure would like to know.
I’ve got alot of $hit to do in the meantime, before I drop dead.

Just Sayin’
Thanks for All your info!

ATTN: FinallyouttaCA:

I have tried three times to provide you with the information on the peer reviewed study regarding ADE and coronavirus…and each failed to print. So, try seeking the following on a search engine:

The American Society for Microbiology,
Journal of Virology:

“Molecular Mechanism for Antibody-Dependent Enhancement of Coronavirus Entry”


I’m not understanding half the things your posting, but, I thank GOD, you are posting. Trying to protect and help each and every MSB Patriot.!!!

God Bless you.


This report is about MERS, not COVID19. See quote.

In this study, we investigated how a neutralizing monoclonal antibody (MAb), which targets the receptor-binding domain (RBD) of Middle East respiratory syndrome (MERS) coronavirus spike, mediates viral entry using pseudovirus entry and biochemical assays. Our results showed that MAb binds to the virus surface spike, allowing it to undergo conformational changes and become prone to proteolytic activation.

I know. But, covid-19, meres, sars, share this characteristic and are coronavirus. In addition, covid-19 was modifide using long seqence inserts from these pathogens, to provide modifide spike proteins to allow entry into human ACE 2 receptors. This paper is the first to settle the mechanism by which the coronavirus acheives ADE. This also explains why second waves of such pathogens are deadlier than the first, as we have observed in 1918. It is a very important paper, fully reviewed, which directly applys now, when the normal review process is too slow to catch up with this current pandemic.

This could have been mentioned before, but I read the Asian people had more ACE-2 receptors than the Europeans. Thus Asians get the virus faster, but the Europeans are able to carry the virus longer before getting effected, thus infecting more people. The Europeans also test negative for the virus several times before finally testing positive.
I have a friend who is a doctor and never swears, but when she read this she came back with a holy crap!

Thanks, Ision!

I found the link and tried to post it as a reply last night, but apparently my post went into cyber-lala-land.

Glad to see Ken also found and posted it.

I tried talking to my brother about the coronavirus again. He got defensive and said you can’t live your life in fear, the coronavirus isn’t even here yet.

So I told him, looking both ways before crossing the street isn’t fear, it’s necessary. Are you gonna look for cars after you get hit by one?

I also slow down and look both ways when driving over train tracks. If practical I’ll even stop and look. Just because the lights aren’t on and/or the gate isn’t down doesn’t mean a train isn’t coming. Wow, quadruple negative! 🤣

Dr. John Campbell on You Tube just did an inadvertent live Q&A while trying to figure out how to host an official one scheduled for Saturday, 22 Feb @ 2:00PM NY time.

He covered a wide range of topics, but it was rather long (1:37:56). I just turned up my volume and did some “auto-pilot” chores nearby while I listened. Wish I’d had professors like him when I was in school.

Scary stuff. I’ve been assuming all along the numbers have been skewed coming from a communist country like China but this info is really eye opening. Hopefully mainstream media will start focusing on it even more so that people really start to understand the severity. Amazes me how many people just shrug it off and are just 100% convinced the whole thing will just blow over. Great post Ken

I think I might have an idea how so many well protected by Personal Protective Equipment Medical personnel got corona virus. It’s not a ninja virus with sharp knives cutting through the gloves or such nonsense.

When we have a bad case and a patient died that should not have all of us gather in the break room cleaning crew included as fellow friends and share coffee, cookies, share the grief and often hugs for the most heartbroken.

ANYBODY in that group breaking PPE protocol or indeed PREVIOUSLY exposed could have been the vector.

I wonder if God will forgive those that created and released this monster that preys on our OWN Immune System and social grief systems.

I think it has more to do with PPE gear shortage and the doctors and medical staff being forced to reuse contaminated PPE gear. Or if not reusing it maybe they’re using it for longer periods of time than intended. Wuhan has a population of over 11 million and they’ve only tested 75,000 so far.

We have about 350 million in the US. Do we have enough gear stockpiled so doctors have a fresh set of PPE gear for each patient?

Grits the honest answer is NO. Our hospital is a good one well supplied BUT because of the bean counters Just In Time system we carry the amount needed for 3-4 Average Days usage. A nasty Nor’easter snowstorm here in New England can put us into conservation mode by day 2.

Now max out our ER, over fill our beds with scared sickly flu patients and suddenly our “Normal Supplies” for 3-4 days is done in maybe 24 hours.

Add to that some 50-80% depending on who you accept of our disposable medical supplies LIKE PPE comes from China well…….

Yes, my hospital is seeking other sources but a lot of promises given and a lot of non-delivery happening as we speak.

It’s not looking like a happy spring around here.

This is notice to all the posters in the NorCal area aka State of Jefferson.

Bless the idiots who transferred a ConV patient into the county of Humboldt. Apparently they were transferred from Travis over to that coastal county, an are staying in there home. Wonderful…(snarkey) might as well parked them on everyone’s door step!
Do not know about you, but I feel they are doing they best to share this wealth of destruction because of someone’s lack of foresight. (growl-yes I am ticked off)

Antique Collector — yup, they are genius for sure (not)..

just read this headline…”Hundreds infected with ConV in China’s prisons”…talk about fake news…Me, am thinking more like tens of thousands….Do not believe they took any care with prisoners, so to speak..

Just remember their Correction facilities aren’t like ours. If one of them has it they all have it. Guards too.. and their families…

Jabba — yuppers… My thoughts also. Even in “our” prisons, stuff spreads like wildfire. In theirs….well…..

Is this the person in Napa area or a different one?

So Cal Gal
They said this person came off Travis AF base–lucky us. Have a dowsing client over towards that area.
Will have to let them know it is in their general AO.

Where is the emoji with the hand slapping the top of the is how I feel right now, or the back of the head like NCIS’s– J. Gibbs.
At least his character has rules to go by, swear the med field is using the seat of their pants on this mess.

So Cal Gal
Dh said this couple came home on a private carrier(airplane).

”Not” off the air base, my mistake which I will own up to.

News article is very limited, but at this time tracking they looking for 13 others whom they exposed.

AC…it is here. Just tonight the MSM reported on 1 patient in Sacramento. It is all around us, unfortunately. SOJ may be a pipe dream because there will be no more residents….

Anyone keep an eye on the Markets?
Timing is about right for this little “dip” all awhile the Virus is devastating the China Economy.
Think on it… 1.6 million containers of goods sitting on the docks.
Might be time to stock on another brick of the allusive TP huh?
Just my 2¢ worth.

lol.. or 2, that is, if you are going, might as well make it worth your time…lol

I’ve read a couple of stories that gov in China are ordering people in areas with lesser outbreaks to go back to work. Since Wuhan and its province are inland, wondering if that means port workers are among those required to return to work.

And just read the highlights of CDC and who press conferences this morning. Will be going back to find the details for myself. And seeing the terrible news about SK cases, particularly tied to the one church.

The only way markets dismiss all of this is willful blindness. People simply won’t believe this is a threat until their local news tells them, and it will be way too late by then.

So Cal Gal;
“People simply won’t believe this is a threat until their local news tells them, and it will be way too late by then.”
With the new length predicted on the Virus being contiguous by the time the Local News let’s one know….
Personally I don’t give a Flying Fig what the “Authorities, WHO, CDC or any of them” say, I’m taking this as a full blown worldwide Pandemic, it’s WAYYYYY to early to know for sure.

PS; what is the predicted life of the Virus on surfaces? Sureeeee I want to now buy Chinese Stuff. Why should we believe that they say on the incubation period? What happens if it’s 2 months? 6 months in a container, and that container is shipped to Wally World and those goods sold to hundreds/thousands of people????

Ok, now how’s that for Doom and Gloom fear mongering?

Yep, good job on the fear monger I g, but with good reason IMHO.

This mornings w h o press conference was another exercise in trying to balance reality with calm, when the political hack running it refused to directly answer whether or not we are at the tipping point. Instead says the window of opportunity is narrowing so we need to act quickly before it closes completely.

So, does he really think this thing is still containable? Seems highly unlikely with SK and Iran having bad news and Italy having a small new outbreak, and some cases clearly person to person, not just direct traveler. At some point the w h o is going to have to come out and use the “P” word…. clearly they just don’t want to.

I am working my plan on a daily basis, prioritizing activities and knowing that at any time it may be time to depart suburbia.

And agree with not wanting to buy “stuff” from China… I’m getting the creeps touching almost anything in stores and other public places. I’ve become a germiphobe.

When that PERSON says “window of opportunity” and “we need to act quickly,” it’s a disguised demand for more funding. Maybe he needs a salary increase?

Doom & Gloom Mode is where I am at, not panicking but watching developments closely. My DH had one of those routine test at our outpatient surgical center yesterday and the first question was “Have you been to China or anywhere in Asia or been around anyone who has?” I was glad to hear it but, it was also a bit stunning that those procedures were already in place up here in our low population area. I am watching the Stock Market for evidence of just how nervous people are getting. We have very little that would be affected there. I am on one hand excited to see what PM’s are doing but on the other hand I know that the higher PM’s go the more trouble is headed our way We do not know what will happen from day to day, but I do have the comfort of knowing the Lifestyle we have chosen gives us a fighting chance. I owe this comfort to Ken and many of those on this blog who have guided me in ways I am truly grateful for.

PS; If the Virus doesn’t get me the hand sanitizer and disinfectants may.

I’ve really enjoyed reading Herbal Antivirals by Stephen Buhner. Whoever recommended the book, thank you!

My take on COVID, based on reading the book’s section on SARS and Coronaviruses is that we should decrease the impact of COVID if we become infected. We should also increase our T cell production to reduce the symptoms and severity of COVID.

The author uses SARS examples when discussing basic cellular behavior, and from what I have gleaned, the Interleuken 1-beta cytokine should be decreased for a more favorable outcome (symptoms and/or death)especially with older patients. This is because this cytokine is an important mediator of the inflammatory response. (Some of us have read about the cytokine cascades being detrimental to COVID patients and how the body’s immune response is harmful/deadly.)

One herbal that has been suggested to help reduce IL-1beta is Japanese Knotwood (Polygonum cuspidatum). I am still researching this, but the supplement, Resveratrol contains this herb. To use this supplement as COVID ‘treatment’, the dosage would be about 2 grams/day (2,000 mg). No known side effects other than thinning blood, so there would need to be considerations for those taking a blood-thinning drug (ie Coumadin), aspirin, or ibuprofin.

T-cell production is reduced with SARS (cited are lymph organs w/in the lungs), so the author notes the use of elder, zinc, red root, and licorice to reduce symptoms and severity.

Buhner also points out that the body’s cilia can be protected with herbals, and lists cordyceps, olive oil and olive leaf, berberine plants, and Bidens pilosa.

For me, this is the ‘meat’ of the book as it applies to coronavirus/SARS. I’m still researching, but in the meantime, I’ve ordered several herbals that I did not already have, because I’d rather be proactive than wait for that government bus.
(Please note that I am not a medical doctor, herbalist, or even a Santerian with high priestess powers.)

Began on the pages Minerjim recommended in this book.

Interesting article today on Pocket about Knotwood. May have some potential uses but overall a very invasive and damaging plant.

I am also scouring Stephen Buhner’s Herbal Antivirals. It is quite interesting but a lot to absorb and I wish instead of sticking it away with my other reference books over a year ago I would have taken the time to read it sooner than now. What is your (or anyone else) opinion of the Oscillococcinum he mentions.

NWMitten, The oscillococcinum has been used by teachers to prevent themselves from getting sick when working in “school petri dishes”. Teachers who work with younger children tout it’s benefits. I have not used it./can’t use anything that fizzes…. You having a supply and using as a preventative will not hurt your chances.
As for hand sanitizer make your own. look up DIY hand sanitizer… or room antivirals…. usually recipes use 3 essential oils. Can mix it up and use alternates if allergic to any one oil. If i were purchasing an alcohol based one i would add a cc of olive oil with 2-3 drops depending on size of tea tree or oil of oregano to the purchased…

Just Sayin

You know, years ago, I enjoyed perfume scents.
Now I just apply tea tree oil or oil of peppermint and anywhere I walk, I smell like my grandmother’s medicine cabinet….


NWMitten, don’t be too harsh on yourself. At least you had the book and you’re reading it now with real reason!
I saw some references to Oscillococcinum in the book. I did look up the ingredients and read a little about it. I haven’t added it to my ‘arsenal’. I don’t understand how bacterium from duck liver would offer any protection against a viral infection.
What say you?

NW Mitten, MT, Just Sayin’,
I’ll throw my 2 cents in here on “Oscillo”. I have been using it for close to 20 years or more. In my experience, if you take it at the very first feelings of something coming on, it works great. Not so much once you are sure “you’ve got it”. Once gave it to our Chief Engineer at the mine. He had said he was starting to feel “yucky”, so I gave him a dose. Got the old “stink eye” from him as he was also an EMT. He came back the next day wanting to know where I bought that “Oscillo-stuff”. How a minuscule homeopathic dose, made from the liver of a duck can do what it does, I can’t tell you. My guess is that it somehow triggers the immune system to start going after everything, including the flu.

Good news, had purchased some in a reactionary moment and was hoping I had not screwed up.

NW Mitten,
Glad you are reviewing Buhner’s Herbal Antiviral book. Particularly pages 44-47. This is the tincture formulation that I am trying to gather up. A number of these grow in my area. I can’t seem to find Houttuynia herb for sale anyplace, but I have seen it for sale as a bedding plant several times in the past at the store here in Colorado. No matter, even a formula without it is better than nothing. Have been able to find the other main ingredients for sale online. BTW, elderberry (syrup or wine) really does keep the viruses at bay. Have been using it for about 1-1/2 years with no flu. did not take it during the holidays when we were travelling (dumb I know), and got a bad cold. However, I was able to knock that cold down to a much shorter time with about 50% of the normal bad symptoms. this stuff works for us.

MT, JS & Minerjim,
Thank you all for the comments. I had already flagged pages 44-47 and actually started gathering what I need. We’ve been taking Elderberry for a few years now and I am a believer.
My concern now is this cytokines cascade/storm and if you are building up your immune system, are you setting yourself up for that issue? I have a lot to learn.

As JS has been teaching me rotate the different anti virials for protection-jic.

I am hoping that someone who has actually had years of experience in treating contagious patients or working in a biomedical facility can explain an issue that has me concerned.

There are photos on the internet of thousands of Chinese wearing face masks. I can’t tell how many of them are wearing mere surgical masks, and how many are wearing N95 masks. The advice that “any mask is better than no mask” really isn’t all that helpful.

I see constant advice that people should wear eye protection due to the potential for infection via the eyes. Goggles are mentioned. Face shields are mentioned. The reasons usually given for wearing these devices include the need to prevent infection via physical contact with the eyes, i.e., rubbing, and touching. That is understandable. Yet, if viruses are floating around on tiny droplets of saliva and phlegm, whether or not a person touches their eyes, it would seem logical that the droplets that land on the wet surface of the eyes are a danger, as well.

Doesn’t it make sense that only those wearing swimming goggles are wearing devices that provide effective protection? Goggles with vents that prevent fogging would seem to permit the passage of droplets, although the passage would be reduced.

It would seem to follow that those wearing only face shields would be exposed to the passage of airborne droplets that float up the reverse side of the shield by normal air flow, or to droplets that are drawn there by the normal respiration process.

So, should everyone who is functioning in a contaminated environment if the coronavirus lands in a big way in the US well-advised to use ventless goggles that seal tightly on the face?

This “inquiring mind” wants to know.

Survivormann99 swim goggles are as you described a little better than vented safety goggles/face shields for the reasons you describe. But (and there is almost always a But) have you worn swim goggles for over an hour? Limited to no peripheral vision, use of eye glasses impossible. And fogging even with frog spit anti fog gel used. Also painful at least for myself. When I swim I choose a SCUBA mask myself but then again I am a qualified diver with a prescription mask.

If I was to use contacts instead of glasses, wear swim goggles with anti fog gel I would be removing them in less than a hour to defog them and likely to be bumping into things an maybe sickly people.

When I am in my full PPE duct taped suit I have a powered air filter to help keep me breathing well enough to do something useful as well as keep my helmet visor clear of fogging.

Currently when I leave the house for work or needed shopping I carry a ear loop flat mask, vented eye goggles, several pairs of gloves and a bottle of waterless ETOH hand wash as well as some paper towels to use in bathrooms with door knobs. I am very careful to maintain long social distance especially if they are coughing. I am very careful to be aware of what I am touching and to wash my hands before I touch my face. I don’t feel under equipped Currently as it’s pretty hard to carry a N95 in your coat pocket with out crushing it making it worthless. When I learn from my hospital that we have our first real corona virus in our state I will add a camera case I have to carry N95 masks.

We will have a limited amount of PPE given China is the worlds #1 producer of disposable PPE to include 3M N95 masks. Any mask is better than none, any way to reduce the droplet spray from coughing people is a better option.

I hope you have experience in proper removal of PPE as I’ve seen even Hospital folks contaminate themselves removing soiled PPE. Not very useful to wear a N95 for a couple of hours and then smear the contamination all over your hands, face and many home and family surfaces. I posted simple instructions on use and removal that I use to train and re-train Hospital folks.

Do you really want to burn up your best disposable supplies before corona virus arrives in your area?

I have to go to work at the Hospital. I don’t have to shop if I wanted to tap into my stored supplies for well over a year BUT if this situation gets really crazy in say 60 days just how deep into your PPE and stored supplies do you want to be in when the store shelves are BARE?

Just to be perfectly clear, what you are saying is that:

1.) infection can occur when droplets of virus-bearing saliva and phlegm come into contact with the moist surface of the eye;

2.) vented eye protection that is commonly worn can allow droplets of virus-bearing saliva and phlegm to come into contact with the moist surface of the eye;

3.) non-vented eye protection, such as swimming goggles/masks, will prevent droplets of virus-bearing saliva and phlegm to come into contact with the moist surface of the eye; and,

4.) wearing non-vented eye protection, such as swimming goggles/masks, for extended periods is uncomfortable.



#1 so far correct as frankly any flu like disease, access to upper respiratory via tear ducts.

#2 Possible but in my several decades of hospital experience not likely unless someone used a water hose of virus spray directly in your face. If someone is projectile vomiting corona virus nastiness at you, you are IN Trouble unless in a full Level 4 Biohazard suit with powered air filters. The normally worn face shield has more inner air movement as your question seems concerned about. Thus I feel my use of vented safety goggles good enough when I am not in my work zone the Hospital

#3 correct

#4 correct as well as tunnel vision making people quite clumsy and likely to physically run into unseen possibly sick people beside them in a store for example. Also even with good anti-fog they will fog up often forcing you to remove the now probably contaminated swim goggles and perhaps touch your face with said contaminates?

As I work in the Hot Zone aka Hospital I accept the hazards of my employment much like when I was a soldier that hostiles might try to harm-kill me. Outside the Hospital I already described my current immune supporting anti-viral’s and diet as well as what I deem currently acceptable PPE.

We all live, we all die, how we live is the most important thing. Spiritual preparedness is as important as plenty of N-95 masks and gloves.

With such a virus, unless you wear a complete level 4 suit, you will always be in danger of matter what you do. We are only talking about mitigating chances of infection, not eliminating chances of infection.

If you MUST venture forth into possibly contaminated environments, you should take the best precautions available to you…even if they only increase your chances of infection by a small margin.

False confidence is the best way to become infected. Just look at the foolish Japanese “experts” who got themselves infected on the Princess Diamond.

If you are over 50, you had better take precautions not to become infected. So, do not conduct yourself, so that you will NEED to leave your home, in order to survive a wave of this virus. If you increase your risk of are deserving of what you may receive.

pardon…”decrease”…not increase. Too much red wine.

Ah, that red wine sure does make reading this easier!

My wife is Asian so she is watching what is unfolding in China Korea and Especially Japan with great interest. She has family in Japan. Actually, she is too engaged in all the news. This morning I had to counsel my good wife,who under normal circumstances is rational and level headed to calm herself. This constant overload of potentially bad news takes its toll. I am already hearing and seeing mental fatigue in people.
While we should be “sprinting” to fill our gaps we also need to realize this will be more like a “marathon ” race. A race of endurance and pacing one’s self to get to the finish line.
We know the folks in China have been dealing with this at least 3 months but possibly 5 months.
The rest of the world really has only been dealing with this for about 3 weeks.
We really should be getting mentally prepared for this to go on for 12-18 months.
I’m not saying we shouldn’t be paying attention to what is going on. That would be foolish.
What I’m saying is temper this Information. Don’t let it consume you. Fear can be a great motivator or it can paralyze you.Act rationally.
Trust me ,we will see plenty of folks lose their minds(figuratively and literally) in the coming months. Let’s not be one of them.
Plan your work…
Work your plan…

Bill Jenkins Horse;
Extremely well said.
I 100% agree with the 12-18 months, with the exception of… How long did the Spanish Flu last? 2-3 years?
As far as people losing their minds…. Just take a look at the Debates and Election ciaos that’s already going on. Try telling some of those people they cannot go outside, and they cannot go to the stores for food, and their water will be cut off in 2 days…..
Food for thought.
Prepare my friends, and that TP will still be good if you don’t need it in 2 months.

Glad we live were we do. We can go outside to places and be ‘isolated’ from everyone else, but still enjoy God’s handiwork. Question for you: are you looking into herbs for this??? I am sure that isatis (Dyer’s Wode) grows down there along the Orange River someplace. Likely Lomatium also (Desert Parsley, Fern-leafed biscuit root are a few names it is known by). Might take Blue out for a walk and take a look when it warms up a bit. In the meantime, keep your stocks of organic parts cleaner well rotated, ok?

“Question for you: are you looking into herbs for this???”
Very much so, we have quite a few “interesting” herbs in the area…
Look up the benefits of Mormon Tea, some of the Cacti around are absolutely the best.

As far as area to live in, ohhhhh hell yeah, I can start walking due East and not see people for weeks, north about the same, except for that swamp DRO.

On an interesting side note. It seems a LOT of folks around here are stockpiling stuff.
Went to Sam’s Club for a few items, I would guess the overall store was down about 20% og normal stock…..
Needless to say I helped a little LOL

We have been buying meds and things online to keep from going to the big city where the regular flu is running rampant. We also buy from Emergency essentials and they have a note across the top saying their delivery time is much more than usual. Also they are out of stock of a lot of items. One surprise, their $2400 2 year food supply for 1 person is out of stock!

Facebook came up with a post, under it’s own name, telling you what you need to do for a corona virus outbreak.

Bill Jenkins Horse you have even more skin in the game than most of us.

No wonder you built a sickbay with it’s own septic system. Good Job.

Not to be a scold but a reminder that the simple things like washing your hands before you touch your face and anything you hold dear is more important than having cases of N95’s awaiting need. I hear so much Gear Talk here when the Basics it what MUST be done for the Best Masks talk means anything.

I’m sure you have taken thought about how to reduce exposure and limit vectors into your home and camp. Basics again. I have to work at my hospital and thus have developed protocols I have posted on MSB over several nasty flu seasons as well as SAR’s and such. Mostly simple basics but my Oxygen dependent 94 year olds are still kicking so maybe those basics works?

Train Before it really matters. It’s a bad time to learn how to safely remove a nasty mask and gloves in the middle of the real deal Corona Virus eh? Train with peers spot each other for errors.

I look forward to hearing from you and yours in good health in a few months.

And spiritual preparing is as important as N95 masks folks. We will all die someday, it’s how we live that counts. Micah 6:8

All the grandkids are homeschooled. We turned one of our cabins into a school and all the kids come here everyday. They can literally walk to school. The moms like a place outside of the home and all the distractions. Works really well.
They have been working on the kids and their hygiene.
The kids sing songs about it based off the song if you’re Happy and you know it clap your hands.
They all get to make up lyrics.
Like ” if your sister is stinky wash your hands “.
Of course ,the boys try to out gross each other so it gets hilarious sometimes.
But anything to get them to remember and up their hand cleaning is worth it.
We do practice. But ,if you’re tired or get distracted it is easy to screw it up.
My wife suggested we keep an individual plastic shoe box filled with bleach water and put our hands in ,then remove and discard the gloves. Then wash hands again in another bleach water filled container.
Not sure if that’s a good idea but I think it would work.
What does anybody think about that?
Just to assume you screwed up and dunk them everytime?

Bill Jenkins Horse in the Operating Room we have a saying “When in doubt, throw it out”. Updating to our “new Normal” of a potentially life changing virus I’d say “When in doubt Wash Your Hands”. Soap and water still works.

Dunking your contaminated gloves in bleach water before doffing them seems reasonable IF you managed a long enough contact time for the bleach to be effective. In general a 1 part bleach to 10 parts water solution has a 10 Minute Contact time required to kill the more stubborn pathogens. COULD be hard to keep your hands in there for 10 minutes I think?

However if you followed my simple removal technique and then washed your hands the same result maybe?

The question is how do you make sure you have enough bleach for this task over a year plus time frame? How do you know that batch of bleach water is still at effective strength? There is a salt+water+electricity homemade bleach generator on the internet and also commercially made. I am seriously looking into adding that to my Colloidal Silver Generator of distilled water (yes I have a small distiller) .999 silver (I use Silver Eagles) and 27-30 volts DC for I find about 8 hours for a pint supply.

Washing your hands in bleach water is a little concerning as damaging your bodies 1st line of defense the skin seems a bad idea in the long haul. An “accidental” wiping of an eye with a dilute bleach water hand MIGHT be Bad?

Even a 1-10 bleach solution has according to MSDS eye irritation, lung irritation and skin irritation with exposure. An actual eye splash or such in the eyes would be BAD.

Also as a side thought with easy replacement of clothing in doubt should we risk damaging-destroying our clothing and foot gear with bleach errors? If I dumped that shoebox of bleach solution on my shirt, underwear, jeans, socks and shoes could I get them rinsed fast enough to avoid damage? Kids will be kids and I see unintended errors for such roughhousing and such?

Did you see my posting about the care and feeding of reusable PPE like goggles? I had them doffing into such a bleach water solution with a metal Tongs to keep the often floating goggles under bleach water for a at least 10 minutes before being transferred by that tong to the rinse water. Then the tong is returned to the bleach water for next use.

Could be adapted to dishwashing gloves for caregiving where you’d go through a LOT of disposable gloves daily using same system but adding a drying rack like they use to wash zip lock bags? I’d have at least 4 sets of dishwashing gloves per caregiver for sickbay as to allow not trying to wear wet dripping gloves during healthcare work.

Hope this helps

Along similar thoughts…regarding bleach in the eye. Hydrogen Peroxide in the eye will cause serious damage. Even the fumes from Hydrogen Peroxide can cause a “burn”. I suffered eye damage from fumes in the 1980’s. Luckily it wasn’t my cornea! So, be careful and protect your eyes ya’ll, Beach’n

BTW BJH I’d love to be a “Fly on the Wall” listening to your kids Happy Song! :-)

Anything that makes learning fun works so much better with kids. Good ideas!

NRP, and all,
We know China lied and continues to lie about the outbreak. South Korea looks to take it in the neck over their lies with the cases popping up in their country.
Japan let local politicians get involved in the quarantine and that will cost many people their lives before its over.
Now it’s showing up all over.
We know that there are probably close to 10,000 people “self Quarantined ” in the states.
The question is, are their families Quarantined too or are they going about their daily lives? Kids going to school, spouses to work?
Are they staying in one room or are they in the kitchen living room, bathroom touching shared items? These houses will be mini incubators all over the place.
I think what the clueless expect self quarantine to be and what the reality of it is vastly different and potentially disastrous.
I have read the reports Ision posted. I did alot of reading on Ebola as well. Ebola can have a long incubation period as well. They found that patients were not considered contagious during the incubation period.
The same apparently cannot be said about this virus. They also did decade long studies on reinfection of ebola in patients and the mortality rates the second time around. Not a good outcome for most.
We can guess why they are playing this down. IMO, it’s about the economic pressures and some of it is the arrogance and ignorance of bueracrats in positions of authority.
I personally want to thank Ken for providing a safe,sane outlet for us to share ideas,concerns and solutions along the way…

It is a woman thing, ok.
I truly understand where your wife is coming from on the collection of data relating to this illness. Even more so since it effects her countryman and women, yes, we have no control over what occurs in that section of the world.
We do our best to care for those we hold dear to our hearts, and with the upmost do diligence. Give her a hug, that is the best healing medicine of all at this time of our lives.

Bill Jenkins Horse I was thinking about your marathon thoughts and a few thoughts came up.

As most all clothing and shoes come from Asia AND Children grow, clothing wears out etc. I think I’m going to pick up some more underwear, socks and such. Maybe look over my work boots and bite that bullet for a extra pair?

At valley forge General Washington’s some of his soldiers were marching with rags wrapped around their feet. That was because the continental dollar was worthless as British Troops paying in gold coin could always buy food and supplies. In our case the factories that make it *might* not be working well with the ongoing corona virus? Or our status as world reserve currency-petrodollar fails and our money is more like the peso?

Also thinking about pets from the discussions about *ahem* protein… My prime breeder beagle was quite the distance traveler. I’d get calls from the next county if I could come and get her. As hair is a wonderful reservoir for viruses and bacteria should we be concerned about our pets wandering around potentially sick people AND aside from the dangers of wild dig packs as described in Ken’s article maybe corona virus also? After all we DO worry about Rabies don’t we?

Keeping our pets secured, our livestock protected and our kids safe from strays (animals and Humans) might be important?

Maybe more 22 mag ammo is needed?

Don’t know who was asking about skullcap, but I take this herb BID for pain along with tumeric. Both work well for reducing the inflammation. Do not know about any benefits for virus reduction. I’ll have to ask the “Witch”( her words not mine) about those benefits. Will report back with any info she has.
Scary stuff about the Baltic Dry Index. Been watching that since January. As Dennis said, we put all the eggs in one basket and then the basket fell over and broke most of those eggs. Can’t even make an omelet from them.
Chuck Findley, so sorry to hear about your dad. From your posts, I know ya had a good relationship with him. Remembering the good times and knowing you were a good son to him may help ease your sorrow.
PEACE to all

Just came across this interesting update from ZH. THeir source was “The Star Adviser”.

“Update (1645ET): Earlier this week, we reported that a Japanese man who had recently visited the US state of Hawaii, a popular destination among Chinese and Japanese tourists.

Since then, things have been oddly quiet. For those who have been hoping that this is because authorities found no evidence that the patient was infected in Hawaii or spread the virus to anyone else he came into contact with, well, we’re sorry to disappoint you.

Because journalists with the Star Advertiser discovered that the reason that officials haven’t had any news is because nobody has been tested.

And nobody has been tested, because the state doesn’t have any kits.

This report hit before today’s CDC press conference, where the agency once again noted the shortage of tests, and the lack of preparedness among most US states (only three: Cali, Texas and Illinois are sufficiently prepared they said). Until this changes, the CDC said it will centralize ‘surge’ testing at the CDC.

More likely than not, this means there’s probably a huuuuuge backlog of cases from around the country waiting to be tested.”

Only 3 Sates are sufficiently prepared?????? You cant make this crap up.

Also via New York Times at least 34 people are infected in the US. With 21 repatriated individuals as well as 13 U.S. cases.


Could China’s air quality be a contributing factor in the infection of the lower respiratory system?
Causing the tissues damaged from excessive particulate intake to become compromised?
Has anyone else read that people with COVID-19 often recover when treated for the AIDS virus?

Just a note,,, i dont think China gives people flu shots?
Just curious


They’ve cleaned up air pollution quite a bit in most cities. All the 2-stroke engines for scooters are banned; all are electric now. Some places are still bad from industrial pollution, but overall if this was related to air quality, I think it should have turned up years ago.

One thing is clear, it is an individual’s own “air quality” that is a contributing factor. Chinese smokers, who are very disproportionately male, represent an overwhelming percentage of the victims.

Anti-viral drugs are sometimes effective, and that means HIV drugs as well, since anti-virals work in different ways–stop the virus from replicating, stop it from getting into the cells, boost the immune system so it activates and recognizes the intruder faster. So yes, HIV drugs can work. That doesn’t mean the virus is related to HIV.

I was wondering if diet plays a factor, as in nutrient deficiency…but then I abandoned the theory, as the center of infection seems to be large urban centers…hmmm

The main centers of infection are also the areas with the most industrial waste in the air–i.e., pollution. For a lower respiratory infection, that would seem to be a bad combination.

As of Wednesday, 479 people had been tested. Yesterday that number dropped to 414. Take that for what it’s worth. The CDC has changed the format of their reporting. I believe it’s to hide the real numbers.

Cruise ship: 18
Wuhan: 3
Person to person: 2
Travel related: 12

They supposedly sent out test kits to five sites in the US–Texas, Illinois and California were three of them, if I remember correctly. So only those states with test kits (provided by the CDC) are sufficiently prepared? Sounds like a short circuit. And only 400+ have even been tested, while thousands are under voluntary quarantine? Shortage of test kits–sounds like it’s the CDC that was unprepared.

I realize that Americans would like to see more manufacturers stateside, would it not be more plausible, in the interim at least, for major manufacturing to be shifted to India.
Would such a move possibly avert a major ” glitch” in the economies of the world that stand to be impacted the most by a Chinese shutdown?
The last I read, China was avoiding shutting down the military, and industrial cities, in an effort to prevent a major impact on the economy. Anyone have an update in that area?

India is already a major industrial center, but most of their raw materials come from China. Until that changes, it won’t be a useful change. We would still be reliant on China, just at one remove.

It seems that, if necessary, the industries could source from elsewhere. I would like to think that would be the case, at least before any major slowdown of Indian industry.

I was chatting with a good friend at work today, Chinese national, I was curious about the bank runs and cash confiscation. She said both are quite true. She said people “on the street” over there are of the firm opinion that this will be the end of cash in China. They are using ‘disinfection’ as the reason… but with 99% of the population already using their phone or watch to pay for things, this is their opportunity to move quickly and end cash entirely. Surely the our FedGov is watching how this goes.


What you just posted about the end of cash is the .Gov final goal. Watch it spread across the world including the U.S. More control. I believe I read a article the other day where the Fed mentioned creating their own electronic currency. Called it Fedcoin. It’s coming. Makes one wonder if the virus is just the means to the ends.


Just out a interview. of “Brother ” by Dr Paul Cottrell on you tube. You need to listen with full intent..
WE have NOT been overreacting. we are being played by gov./cdc /powers in control and first stock sell offs are happening NOW. 1% is minimizing their exposure. Virus is the catalyst.
Gov.’s everywhere are doing the best they can. goes from stage to stage. trying to limit panic ..80% will b combative.about accepting .
have protection many will make stupid decisions. minerals fruits veggies, protein…says there are. 3000 in US and 2000 in Canada. they are not allowed to release info..til they get approval.

Deleted comment…..


I was supposed to go to the east coast next week for an important meeting with a large retailer that just picked up our line. I was rather concerned about it. But then, a couple of days ago, one of the logistics ladies from the China side stopped me to inquire about my plans. She encouraged me to not go, saying: “If you aren’t concerned for yourself, how would you feel if you brought it back to all of us?”

-Wow- that left a mark. Yet she was exactly correct. What the heck good is a mega-million order; if there might not be many consumers… or many goods that actually get made?

I’m not going. Sales can cover it, then go home to their state. I’m available by phone or Skype.

Good call.! Did you pass message to co workers.?
did you see the interview by dr john cottrell last night?(u tube)…. of …someone only known as “Brother”. briefly he thinks will peak and he has been following each country…early april to mid to late may.. and that will only e one of the many waves..says all of the sudden pneumonia deaths are part of this… already here…and has been a while-passed with the other flu varieties… I stopped the video and set it back to catch details several times. I usually watch/listen to videos on a higher speed … 125% ..watched this one on .75%..

One of the issues that troubles me is that we are all essentially in the dark. News coverage is spotty, and not reliable so we hypothesize and try as best as we can to understand how to approach this 3-headed disaster. The MSM hasn’t made enough effort to warn viewers so they’re about as ignorant of COVID as can be.

Our govt’s LACK of concern for our Nation’s citizens has been obvious for generations, but now there is an extremely serious pandemic, and as we are concluding, the virus is a tough man-made beast.

I re-read The Johns Hopkins Center for Health Security Event 201 public documents again this morning. Their proposed recommendations from the Event’s exercise are troubling. There were 7 itemized recommendations that this ‘think tank’ of governmentals concocted. Three of those 7 recommendations were concerned with economics, but there were only 2 recommendations that concerned the ‘human element’. The stark reality is that the result of this Exercise Event focuses more on economic stability than human lives.

At least we see it coming. At least we have a bit of time to brace for impact.

Modern Throwback,

You are correct in your assessment. I would only add this advice.

No matter whether we are being lied to (I’m sure we are) about the human toll of the virus, now, or what’s coming, some things are certain. All the world’s economies are about to take a huge hit. This cannot be avoided. No matter whether you contract the new corona virus, no matter whether it’s man-made or natural, no matter what else may happen, folks have to eat. Folks have to drink.

Whatever it takes for families to survive, now is the time to purchase, if you can. Commodities are about to skyrocket. By commodities, I’m speaking of the basics. It’s that pesky supply and demand thing. Demand is always there, supply is tumbling.

Not only does that affect availability, but as everyone well knows, price. So many things will not only be in short supply, but they will cost substantially more to aquire.
Sorry, not trying to be a rider but i would bet some folks dont get that, yet….

I just stumbled on a Fox 11 news story saying that the city of Costa Mesa here in So Cal has filed for a temporary restraining order as they were just notified of the possible transfer for 30-50 virus patients from Travis to a nearly-closed facility built to house people with developmental disabilities. WTF!!!

This facility is old, not a real medical facility (no biohazard use before now) and is walking distance to a large community college that also holds a massive swap meet every Saturday and Sunday. This facility is on a very busy street right smack in the middle of a neighborhood. I hope to hell this does not happen!!!

As an important side note, in the above article, the mayor of Costa Mesa says “… was surprised to learn yesterday (Thursday around 5:20 pm that Fairview Developmental Center was being considered for use for 30 to 50 patients WHO HAD TESTED POSITIVE CORONAVIRUS”.

This facility is not for biohazards. The feds are telling us we only have about 35 infected people in the entire country… including the ones in quarantine in Omaha… so:

a) how many infected people do we not know about?


b) if they are looking at a non-biohazard facility, how desperate are they?

So Cal Gal,
My guess is the “30-50 patients” aren’t necessarily ones who have tested positive yet. They may plan to move a few in now, and then more as time goes on and more people have the disease. They definitely need to plan for more than what they have, and I’m glad they’re thinking ahead. Unfortunately, this plan to move them to this place doesn’t necessarily show a lot of brain waves working real hard.

The mayor of the town says it was put to her as 30-50 people who had already tested positive. But even if it’s just a few this facility is a run-down, slated for closure campus for people with mental and/or developmental disabilities. I can’t imagine what it would take in time and money to get it up to biohazard protection capabilities.

There is a hearing on Monday, hopefully the leaders in that city and the county can make a compelling case. I noticed the story has now grown big enough to hit ZH. I’m sure people on both sides of this will be looking at it as a test case. If things continue down this path, infected people will have to go somewhere. But military installations or similar facilities in more remote areas seem much better than plunking down people smack in the middle of a very busy metropolis.

Seems the people in charge learned nothing from SARS, MERS and Ebola scares.

So Cal Gal
Those building were not good enough for the homeless without a 25 million retro fit. Yet, those building would have been good enough for these people who were exposed and carriers of the WuFlu.

Happy to hear & read that they found a judge willing to stop this spreading of the virus. Nothing like sharing the contaminate with the rest of the state.

Do not get wrong, I do feel sorry for those that are ill and suffering, but if it is contained within a small area, the better for the nation as a whole. mo

Yes… you are exactly right. In a past life I worked almost directly across the street from that facility. It was not in great shape all those years ago… and is nearly closed down now.

But what’s really frosting my butt is that if the mayor there spoke correctly, they are talking about 30-50 people already tested positive. Yet, our published head count is still the same 21 people plus the 14 new people in Omaha.

Our g o v complains that China is hiding their numbers (on a mass scale no doubt) but our g o v is no better – they are hiding the truth as well. Making it more difficult to judge how things are going and/or choose a point of needing to go.

I just posted a comment with a link to a news article that says that the Feds notified the City of Costa Mesa of a possible patient transfer from Travis AFB to a care facility right smack in the middle of Costa Mesa, near the community college… if it goes into moderation will you please look for it. Thanks!

Info from a Physician friend. CDC told them (2 weeks ago) that if someone presented with a “febrile illness” that did not test positive for the flu, to notify the health department. Nothing more than that and a little too late in his opinion. They saw a patient that fit that description 1 month ago in N.C. The office is also bringing people with flu-like symptoms in through a back door. No more allowing those people to wait in the lobby.

seen lots of headlines today and yester evening warning that WHO is on verge of actually declaring this a Pandemic…..

so, if they do, practically speaking, what does THAT change?

does it allow more enforced detentions/treatments (in the more “free” countries)

does it allow more confiscations of supplies (for the common good)


“Remdesivir and chloroquine effectively inhibit the recently emerged novel coronavirus (2019-nCoV) in vitro”
2020 Nature dot com (link will follow if Ken posts it, otherwise search title)

Clipped portion:
An efficient approach to drug discovery is to test whether the existing antiviral drugs are effective in treating related viral infections. The 2019-nCoV belongs to Betacoronavirus which also contains SARS-CoV and Middle East respiratory syndrome CoV (MERS-CoV). Several drugs, such as ribavirin, interferon, lopinavir-ritonavir, corticosteroids, have been used in patients with SARS or MERS, although the efficacy of some drugs remains controversial.3 In this study, we evaluated the antiviral efficiency of five FAD-approved drugs including ribavirin, penciclovir, nitazoxanide, nafamostat, chloroquine and two well-known broad-spectrum antiviral drugs remdesivir (GS-5734) and favipiravir (T-705) against a clinical isolate of 2019-nCoV in vitro.

Remdesivir and chloroquine effectively inhibit the recently emerged novel coronavirus (2019-nCoV) in vitro

Are those antivirals sourced from China?
If so, for how long will they be available?

CR, there are very good ones , from local.. elderberry, and sweetgum tincure( home made tamiflu). Lomatium from Utah herbalists.. and i am sure other places, stateside… as well. Garlic, onion and leek also grown locally. shipping s the key..
. having distilled water to make colloidal silver and some batteries or power unit to produce with .9925 or better silver.look up diy colloidal silver generator.

Just Sayin’ what’s your thoughts about colloidal silver used in nebulizers for lung and upper respiratory treatments? I have the gear with O2 dependent 94 year olds but unsure of the concept?

Any thoughts welcome. Cannot GOOGLE unless you know the right questions


Me 2 re: your request on CS use. It works, same properties, need to use distilled sterile water to dilute….. separate atomizer for cs. so would the herbal mentioned above.. so would rabbit tobacco tincture./for decongestant, is mildly antiviral/ causes good expectoration even with copd. DM used it on Dad enough, for me to know…LOL.. do search darryl patton and last herbal. will pull up article for info on that herb known as everlasting.RT and Lomati. can be mixed in same atomizer. stinks and tastes bad but works well. small amounts..

wonder what the odds are, this “outbreak” is at least somewhat directed to gathering DNA?……Tests for it appear to be a cheek swab, same as for DNA sample. China has long (so I’ve read) been keen to have DNA of all its citizens, as well as all foreign visitors. Not so sure “other” countries are not equally keen…

DNA swabs, elimination of cash, collecting dissidents under the guise of quarantine, then they end up dead(supposedly from virus)
Will see what we see. Could be the gloBULList last ditch to grab control, or just a bad azz sickness

The test is at least partially DNA sequencing. They separate out the human DNA and test what’s left. Whether they do anything with the human DNA, I have no idea but I suspect they at least store it.

However, if they were doing something of this kind I think they would be sending out MORE test kits rather than fewer.

FYI, having “biometrics” for all human beings on the planet is part of the UN agenda. I think that one was Agenda 2030, but I’m not precisely sure.

South Korean total infection rate is doubling EVERY DAY exponentially. For the last week, the known cases of COVID-19 have doubled every 24 hours.

U.S. hospitals are ALREADY rationing protective masks to their personnel, and CANNOT get re-supplied.

The U.S. Government has already been caught in deliberate lies regarding the number of COVID-19 infected in this country. They were stopped from transporting 30-50 infected people from Travis AFB to a residential housing site in Costa Mesa, CA.

Basically, the government wanted to move MORE infected people, in just this one move, than the total number of virus infected people, we are supposed to have in the entire country. And, they wanted to move them to a dilapidated housing facility, not rated to handle the COVID-19 infected, located in a busy place, in a crowded city… It is as if their mismanagement, is deliberate…as if they WANT to spread this lethal pathogen more effectively.

Young, strong, healthy…and medically trained..people are being killed by this virus, no matter how much treatment they are given.

I have NO HOPE for a vaccine for this pathogen…as it may not be possible to create. The idiots yelling they have FOUND ONE…are all liars, fools, and frauds. WE are STILL waiting for the vaccines for the SARS coronavirus after EIGHT YEARS. THIS COVID-19, or SARS-CoV-2, is not SARS…IT IS WORSE.

You will not see a vaccine in 18 months…and most likely not in 18 years. Because of ADE, it is probable no vaccine can be created, which does not increase your chances of dying from the infection.

IN fact, a vaccine can allow the virus a better chance to kill you the first time you become infected by it will use the antibodies created by the vaccine to open new pathways into your cells and not just the ACE2 receptor path..but the Fc – Receptor – Expressing cells, too.

If the supplies we need to survive this pandemic are already short…and the government is lying and inept…when the CDC and WHO appear to be run by disinformation experts and liars…kiss it.

They know the truth…it is just that the truth is too horrible…and they know what is coming.

They are just trying to delay what they cannot stop.