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  • tmcgyver
    12/12/2019 at 8:20 AM
    Open Forum & Off-Topic Conversation

    Daisy, think about your old TV. You had at least two cords going to it, one for power, the other for TV signal. Tell me about the not-power cable. Was it round, with a nut on the end and a sharp wire sticking out? Or was it flat, two-wires, and two little spade connectors held to the TV by two screws? I'm wondering if you are trying to connect to an old 300 or 75 ohm antenna. If that's the case you may be able to pick up more stations with a smaller, more modern antenna, let's take it a step at a time.





  • pinky
    12/12/2019 at 7:50 AM
    The Walking Dead (Level 3 Preparedness)

    Most humans don't want to die. Humans are very adaptable and resourceful. Most humans are awful and full of bias. Most humans are delusional about their capabilities and knowledge. Most humans are lazy (which is actually a good thing, work smarter not harder) and choose the path of least resistance. This is because humans avoid conflict. Humans will work way harder to keep what is theirs than take what isn't, assuming comparable risk. The two greatest things that get humans to do what no other has yet is anticipation and adaptation. Desperation causes people to overcome their selfishness when they realize teamwork will help solve a problem. All humans know that success is more likely together than alone. But once the need has been met they tend to return to their selfish ways. And they are always calculating risk. Humans know that bodies carry disease. In war humans would bury the enemy. Even during widespread famine. This will not change no matter how dumb we are. Most humans, since they don't usually want to die, are fairly risk adverse. Even when desperate, the brain is working efficiently calculating risk. If you're "starving" are you going to stop at the house with a clearly visible orchard, chickens clucking, and the smokehouse cooking ... surrounded with a fence and a bunch of "no trespassing" signs with smiley face shaped bullet holes in them? I'm willing to bet even if you have a group of 30 you're going to make like a tree and leave. This is because you know that person has a plan and has been working it. Even if their plan is only "keep my crap" they still have the home advantage and naturally will try way harder to keep theirs than they would to take it from someone else. You know that even if you're 30 strong doesn't mean you're the first person person to stumble along looking for "free food" at this establishment. You already know the person likely has at least one firearm and likely knows how to use it. You already know they are likely a pretty decent shot. You know that there is a 13% chance that each pistol projectile will hit you when a unprepared and untrained person is under duress. So by shot 7 you're probably dead. Less than that if the projectile emitter is a rifle. Way less if they're trained. So your brain does some more math in realtime and realize you're 1 in 30 people. If the person is shooting at 30 people with a normal 30 round magazine they're probably going to hit 3 people even if they're spraying and praying. Still seem like a good idea? Probably not. A little birdy in the back of your mind might have already told you someone has you in their cross hairs before you even ran this risk calculation. You don't want to die so you move on.





  • Steve
    12/12/2019 at 7:43 AM
    Open Forum & Off-Topic Conversation

    Right now, this morning, coffee in hand and catching up with the people on this website. I learn a lot of great things here. Thanks for the website, Ken.





  • Ken Jorgustin
    12/12/2019 at 7:07 AM
    Open Forum & Off-Topic Conversation

    DaisyK, You just said, "I bought it because supposedly you can watch tv without having to subscribe to cable." Back when you were inquiring to the group about TV's, you never said that. There was an assumption that you already had cable or satellite (you never said which) and that your old TV died. So you just needed to replace it. Buying a new TV would simply be plug-n-play: 1. Connect the cable box to the new TV via HDMI cable to "HDMI-1" on the back of your new TV. 2. Select the "HDMI-1" input on your new TV via the Remote control. So, your current situation is confusing - at least to me. Given what you've described. I will be happy to help to the extent that I can - you can send me an email via the contact link at the bottom of this page. I'm very busy for the next 4 days, but perhaps an email exchange or two may help you. In your email, please be as accurate as you can about what you have... Do you have a cable subscription (cable box)? Do you have an HDMI cable (do you know what that type of cable is)? The model number of your new TV (to do an internet search for the TV user manual).





  • Modern Throwback
    12/12/2019 at 6:54 AM
    The Walking Dead (Level 3 Preparedness)

    One factor is known -- many of the people in NOLA were at or near poverty level and were dependent upon government handouts. These people have been conditioned to allow the government to manage their lives. One article I read yesterday was about people who had been moved out of the region and had not moved back. The study was mostly about past Louisiana residents. Lots of comments from people who were complaining that they were not 'home' and that they didn't have a 'way back' into Louisiana. Others found that there was no 'affordable housing.' What the study didn't say outright was that quite a few of these people were wanting and waiting for the Nanny government to literally give them all-expenses paid to move back and give them a new home with new furnishings. In the past work I did, I don't remember a large segment of the Florida population behaving in this manner before or after a hurricane. In 2005, THREE big hurricanes hit, one after the other. But of course, the demographics are different in FL than in LA. Those who were FL residents and had insurance were provided w/ settlement $$ to deal with their losses. Those who had no insurance were given FEMA assistance and their relocations weren't 'dead end' locations where they didn't come back. The Katrina disaster illustrates a segment of our society -- with dependent, low (no) income "gimme dat" mindsets. Many are city dwellers, and unless there is intervention w/ government, they're not going to travel far independently. "Golden horde"???





  • rb308
    12/12/2019 at 6:25 AM
    The Walking Dead (Level 3 Preparedness)

    Amazing to think the chaos something like this would cause. 100 years ago no electricity would just be any other day. Sad how utterly dependent the majority of people have become on the grid. Think we’ve finally hit the 3/4 month mark on food and water. Have a long ways to go but it’s scary to me how many people couldn’t eat for more than a day or two with what they have in their frig.





  • DaisyK
    12/12/2019 at 4:37 AM
    Open Forum & Off-Topic Conversation

    Note: The tv came with no instructions, no warranty card, no phone number to contact if there were any problems. All that was in the box was two sheets (one in Spanish) with diagrams showing me how to attach the little feet and hook up the HDMI to my cable box. Oh and a separate sheet in several languages warning not to touch the screen when I took it out of the box, and instructions to remove it from the box by using the handles. There were no handles. I bought it because supposedly you can watch tv without having to subscribe to cable. But when I first logged on to it, it gave me an opportunity to get a 30 day free subscription to something -- I forget what. I skipped that because I can't afford any more monthly payments and I assumed I would be billed when the 30 days were up. I also passed up the opportunity to subscribe to Alexa because I had heard bad things about it, and again I don't need any more monthly bills. So now, apparently because I didn't take up their offers of services I didn't want to pay for, I am being punished by being only allowed to watch that one unwanted program.





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  • DaisyK
    12/12/2019 at 4:21 AM
    Open Forum & Off-Topic Conversation

    Jane I posted here because Ken said that if I had any problems he could help. No matter who else I contact- Best Buy, Toshiba, Amazon - I get no help. Either their chat field is greyed out, or their phone is disconnected, or I get a message that "Toshiba doesn't support any products manufactured after 2015" then a hang-up, or a message to call 855-xxx-xxxx and an immediate hang-up before you can get the rest of the number. As it stands right now, when I turn on the tv, I get a screen that advertises a show called Chicago Fire, and down below a bunch of buttons (that don't work) that say I can go to YouTube, Netflix, Hula, etc. Whatever I try to do, "Chicago Fire" starts playing and it won't stop. It appears to be a reality show about the Chicago Fire Dept. The only way I can stop it is to turn the tv off. When I turn it back on, I get the same option, i.e. the option to watch that one program. There is no way to get real tv. And by the way, the picture is terrible, washed out and fuzzy.





  • LITW
    12/12/2019 at 1:19 AM
    The Walking Dead (Level 3 Preparedness)

    None of mine are regulated by FAA. There is built in geo fencing to "regulate" Altitude on most. But you can change those settings with a cell phone app. Usually 500 feet. And can't fly by airports. As to the line of site flight. I can fly without looking. Check out some utube videos. Some can fly 4 or 5 kilometers and return automatically easily.





  • Stand my Ground
    12/12/2019 at 1:00 AM
    The Walking Dead (Level 3 Preparedness)

    LITW Wow. They really THAT fast? 50 shots? You sure they were good on a shotgun? I know a guy that will take this challenge, so I'm gonna try it. Might be a eatin crow, we will see. Thanks Bud, I'll let you know how it goes. Anyone wanna bet?





  • LITW
    12/12/2019 at 12:57 AM
    The Walking Dead (Level 3 Preparedness)

    If you have all the standard prepper bases covered. Buy a drone. There is no other security gadget you can have, that will do what a drone can do. None....period!





  • Stand my Ground
    12/12/2019 at 12:53 AM
    The Walking Dead (Level 3 Preparedness)

    blackjack22 BUT, shooting them down is a 20yr jail term. Beating the snot out of the operator is probation. Normal times, I probably won't shoot it down, but, I will find the operator, and voice my dis-pleasure with the trespass. SHTF, I'll shoot that sucker down in a heartbeat. I have the capability out to 150yds, and, I'm a good shot.





  • LITW
    12/12/2019 at 12:47 AM
    The Walking Dead (Level 3 Preparedness)

    SMG. I am not an expert on drones or firearms. Everything has its own limitations. There have been articles here about security cameras, night vision, driveway sensors, scopes, firearms etc. I first bought a drone for fun. Quickly found out it could be used as a tool. I have other more advanced drones now. I don't use it for spying or anything. But now I can go out in the morning to feed the chickens. Launch a drone. Preprogrammed to fly over our entire property automatically. Then either watch it live or review the footage on an onboard SD card or on my cell phone. I can tell if anyone has crossed property lines on 4 wheelers or whatever. And also can see where the local deer/turkey etc are moving or hanging out. Once helped a neighbor find some pigs that had gotten loose. In so far as shooting them down. My neighbors have a private shooting club. They are In Law enforcement and ex military. Very good shooters. We had a little bet going one time or two. They said they could take out a cheap $50 drone I have. 2 shooters. 1 reload guy. 50 shells. I was able to out maneuver them, and get pics of them and their vehicles. And still do a kamikaze head shot run at one of them at the end of the bet so fast he had to drop to the ground.





  • blackjack22
    12/12/2019 at 12:07 AM
    The Walking Dead (Level 3 Preparedness)

    SMG, According to FAA regs. all operators of drones MUST HAVE A PILOTS LIC. from the FAA (it's only about 35 questions) and the drone MUST only be flown in an area where the operator can keep it under/in their view at all times. Also the drone can not be flown BELOW 400 ft. over any property.





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  • Stand my Ground
    12/12/2019 at 12:06 AM
    The Walking Dead (Level 3 Preparedness)

    LITW I welcome your help. I don't know much about drones.





  • Chevy
    12/11/2019 at 11:48 PM
    Open Forum & Off-Topic Conversation

    Sometime we ask each other what their favorite part of the day was. Fun to do.





  • Minerjim
    12/11/2019 at 11:43 PM
    The Walking Dead (Level 3 Preparedness)

    Me2, Jammers exist for this. Standard frequency for most drones I are microwave, some UHF. Gotta be careful about jamming, FAA controls the law on drones, dropping a government drone might be like shooting down an airplane. FCC will not like you jamming "their" airwaves either. Fair warning, keep her nose clean.





  • Anony Mee
    12/11/2019 at 11:34 PM
    The Walking Dead (Level 3 Preparedness)

    Stand Yeppers. Looked it up just a few months ago. Had a drone problem myself last summer. A few years ago a friend gave me a little box. When you push the button nothing happens. But then, cell and internet service is the pits down here in the bottom.





  • blackjack22
    12/11/2019 at 11:32 PM
    Open Forum & Off-Topic Conversation

    Ken, Thank you.





  • Anony Mee
    12/11/2019 at 11:24 PM
    The Walking Dead (Level 3 Preparedness)

    How would we know we’re in a Level 3 event? Only by the passage of time. After a week of grid down, no significant communication, no transportation, do we hunker farther down or venture out a bit? After a month? How gray can we afford to go? Prepared as we are, we still can’t afford to sit around waiting for either rescue or attack. Even at the beginning of a Level 3 timeline, it will feel like TEOTWAWKI. Out of an abundance of hope, or maybe fear, we will be doing what we can to maximize food resources. Using chickens for production rather than Sunday dinner, pushing broody hens to sit rather than eating fertilized eggs, preparing soil, planting extra seeds, foraging, hunting, fishing, preserving by various means. We won’t know whether help will arrive in a few weeks, a few years, or if ever. Likewise we won’t know if the stranger at our door is an angel in disguise or a scout for a predator group. I think the gate will stay shut for a while. Like others have expressed everyone out here is a hunter, and as a neighborhood it enhances all our security if we protect each others’ shared borders. And thanks me2. Do have a stock of the N95s. Will get peppermint oil, thanks for that info.





  • pinky
    12/11/2019 at 11:17 PM
    Location & Security (Level 3 Preparedness)

    The ones that can't see there is no conduit or wire going to a camera looking device are not the ones you have to worry about. The fake cameras that look real seem to cost $20. Or about what an OK real camera costs. The goal of the cameras is for them to work so you don't have to. Their logic (or separate software) do the work for you and notifies of motion detection. Expensive software runs realtime analysis for you and will track and index objects for post analysis. Motorola makes some really nice software that does this. The most value I have gotten from the cameras is the recording. The cameras have altered some people's ability to have continued freedom due to coming to my place, seeing the cameras, then being dumb enough to go to someone else's house and steal their stuff wearing the same clothes. It has helped me find out what happened to my critters. I know they are excellent deterrents because of the countless people that see the one obvious camera in my back porch then quickly get back in their vehicle and back all the way down my driveway hoping to avoid recording their license plate. There are multitudes of other uses. Downstairs and you want to check on the dog in the yard? In the back forty and a car pulls up? At work and you're having a package delivered you don't want your spouse to see so you need to leave work early to get it? On vacation and want to check in on the place? I only have a couple in the house normally. One points at the well pressure switch and gauge. I have a few cameras for the chickens. One PTZ, one fixed pointing at food/water, one pointed at the nesting boxes. In the case of poo hitting the fan I would much rather sit in the comfort of my abode watching monitors or viewing on a tablet/phone than having a gaggle of people standing around outside freezing or feeding mosquitos to stand watch.





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  • me2
    12/11/2019 at 10:30 PM
    The Walking Dead (Level 3 Preparedness)

    LITW I am more interested in how to JAM them and thus they "Malfunction" sorry to see that buddy.... Hard to deny you Shot it down.... Lawyers will have a field day over that. Any techies have any ideas that way?





  • me2
    12/11/2019 at 10:25 PM
    The Walking Dead (Level 3 Preparedness)

    BoneIdle respectfully unless your dealing with Government Supported Marauders historical evidence shows that modern folks are poorly suited for walking very far scrounging their food, water shelter as they go. Ammo is heavy and little salvageable resupply is to be expected. Even trained Military men would have a difficult time marching as you describe. Ammo, batteries and food was the bulk of the pack mule load out when dismounted patrol in Afghanistan. We had vehicle (mostly Helicopters) support for food, water and Medevac resupply. I don't expect too many unprepared Zombies to do as well. INSIDE the Cities where it's but a few miles your correct MOBS of dangerous folks. Once past the range of the vehicle fuel supply (remember those traffic jams from EVERY Hurricane) walkers that survive EACH others anger will be either very lucky or more likely VERY Hard DANGEROUS people. Small marauder groups is what history shows moving around trying to survive in Civil War-SHTF situations. Everybody else hunkers down.





  • LITW
    12/11/2019 at 10:19 PM
    The Walking Dead (Level 3 Preparedness)

    SMG. Don't underestimate drones. Or overestimate your ability to shoot them down. I can elaborate if you have questions,





  • me2
    12/11/2019 at 10:10 PM
    The Walking Dead (Level 3 Preparedness)

    Anony Mee I am glad you brought this up. Dead people is a real problem if handled poorly. Protective gear is a MUST. your list PLUS M95 masks will do for most situations. We used peppermint oil on our surgical masks when dealing with gangrene. Outside the home common decency and sanitation is to bury them. I WOULD daily do a upstream check of my water sources to establish something nasty wasn't lying beside or IN my creek. Sick people instinctively seek out water so..... Bacteria with out a host dies off pretty quickly, viruses however can last for a LONG time. If you were needing to salvage from the dead (not my first choice) look at the need to WASH everything with soap and hot water before drying it in the Sunshine for even more disinfection. A BIG (as in cut down 55 gallon drum over a fire) boiling pot of water would work better. Items like Mattresses and such cannot be decontaminated and burning is my choice. Salvaged lumber, windows and other stuff that can be washed and sun disinfected can be reused. Carpet can be reused but I'd give that several weeks turning it over daily for sunshine to do it's thing. BTW Carpet is an AWESOME way to clear a garden plot. Put it over your new garden area and give it a few weeks to kill off the grasses, weeds, I've even killed off Poison Oak that way. No, I disposed of that carpet afterwards but SHTF I'd mark it as to know what side was contaminated with Poison Oak stuff. During the Black Death in the Medieval era they BURNED Plague homes often with the still alive but sick people trapped inside. Didn't work all that well. they had no clue about the Germ Theory.





  • Lauren
    12/11/2019 at 9:59 PM
    The Walking Dead (Level 3 Preparedness)

    Limited as possible, yes, but those buildings represent resources that will be needed in a long term situation. Fire is very final, and in a situation where there's no emergency response it can get out of hand very quickly.





  • me2
    12/11/2019 at 9:47 PM
    The Walking Dead (Level 3 Preparedness)

    Bluesman it sounds like your in a fairly decent situation IF you can avoid HUNGER turning your neighbors into Threats. Going to be a long post sorry. I'm going to address how to form effective teams from mostly non-preppers. Leadership is the issue as I see it. You need everybody to accept SHTF HAS Occurred. Normalcy bias can kill or enslave your neighborhood to Zombies or Thugs. Criminals are not all stupid, some have plans for SHTF as in heading for the rural areas and becoming a Warlord. Then you need to form up teams to block your road access and establish fighting observation points. Fighting OP's need to be able to support each other. Look over other ways to access your area and block them. Barbed wire is useful BUT ANY Obstacles WITHOUT covering fire is only an Annoyance. Everyday you improve your OP's. Never underestimate the value of a well made fighting position using sandbags and logs. Even a wheel chair bound person willing to AIM and Shoot can keep a LOT of able bodied attackers honest. Unless your facing Berserkers or Strung out Meth Heads having a effective shooter knocking down folks around you WILL stop the assault. If you stomp them properly they may choose to move onward. Communications. As simple as issued whistles and a laminated code card to say Trouble (3 long blasts)HERE, 7 people (7 short blasts) and such. Even the lowly 22 long rifle using cheap bulk 36 grain hollow points can stop a human if you put 2+ rounds into a leg. The IDF used Ruger 10-22's to shoot rock throwers in the shin, breaking their leg. Nobody can charge you with a crippled leg. A 22 rifle zeroed for 50 yards has about a 6 inch drop at 100 yards. That means aiming for center mass is a groin or leg hit. Night vision is nice but smooth tripwires at shin height (not barbed because YOUR folks might meet up with it and barbed wire injuries are dangerous with out an ER) WILL trip up folks even if they are wearing Nigh Vision Goggles. I used to treat Night Ninja injuries at Fort Bragg all the time. Research low light hunting scopes. Not Night Vision but Pretty darn good if you have any starlight or a moon unless your a smoker. Find out peoples skills and talents. Look to your assets. Do you have a Hand Pump well or a Solar Well setup? No water means everybody's dead in a few days. Establish Sanitation. Outhouses require proper siting and setting up even African style Tip-Tip hand washers will do a LOT to prevent disease from destroying your neighborhood. Establish a Sickbay as so to have Medical Isolation when someone gets ill. Helps keep the flu from over running your whole team. Bed Rest, tea and not passing it on is FAR better than keeping them at "Home" spreading it around. Not every neighborhood has a Combat Medic and a Nurse at hand but some folks have talent in treating injuries. Some are good with McGyvering, some are great gardeners. Some have the talent of handling Sanitation properly. To keep HUNGER from turning neighbors into Threats, If you were to have set aside a few barrels of horse grade feed corn, Wheat and dry field beans all around 10 dollars a 50 pound bag. Compared to Honeyville's 50 pounds of dent corn at 40.00 a bag well... Horses as you may know have delicate stomachs and horse people are VERY Careful what they feed them. I've eaten Horse Feed when south of the boarder many times. Mainstay of the locals there. DON'T buy Deer Corn, often moldy and dangerous to process into Masa and hominy with lye from clean wood ash as whole corn was processed in the 1800's. I just looked up the calories of dried yellow corn and it's 117 calories and 4 grams of protein per ounce so a 50 pound bag is 93,600 calories! At a nominal 2000 calorie man/day diet that's 46.8 man days, NOT that I's suggest eating only corn but a good basis for survival. Give us this day our Daily Cornbread? Cornbread made with ground beans cooked in was standard field food when I visited Columbia South America. Tasty. If someone has chickens and rabbits your even in better shape. A cow would be gravy as long as you have ability to breed it. AI straws as long as you know how to do it properly and a working freezer, otherwise a Bull is also needed. Bluesman with Leadership, enough food even if not steaks and establishing common goals (sometimes called getting Buy In) you can give yourself and your neighborhood a fighting chance.





  • Jane Foxe
    12/11/2019 at 9:02 PM
    Open Forum & Off-Topic Conversation

    DaisyK….that sucks. I have read of/heard of some folks having good luck with big companies by posting their concerns on facebook/blogs/twitter (most of these companies have twitter feed and facebook). If you post on their facebook/twitter feeds, you might well get a quicker reply /resolution.





  • Stand my Ground
    12/11/2019 at 8:59 PM
    The Walking Dead (Level 3 Preparedness)

    18 USC 32, WOW.! Maybe I need to re-think some of my choices.??? Less penalty to just find to owner, and beat the snot out of him. LOL





  • Kulafarmer
    12/11/2019 at 8:50 PM
    The Walking Dead (Level 3 Preparedness)

    Just look around next time you are out and about, all the people on their phones, dont talk anymore, Dont think for themselves etc etc,,,, Zombies, Not too far a stretch of the imagination





  • me2
    12/11/2019 at 8:48 PM
    The Walking Dead (Level 3 Preparedness)

    Good Ideas White Cracker, walking for 5 days and trying to hide and sleep 5 nights is crazy in a SHTF situation. Everyday things will get crazier as more and more folks decide it IS really the End of the World.... The bicycle is a powerful tool for this. Add a mono-wheel trailer for it and carrying 40+ pounds of gear in it is easy. I have used a mono-wheel trailer for bicycle camping many times in trail riding. There is no where I can hike aside from a swamp that I cannot ride. Please don't use a two wheeled bike trailer, I know you can get them cheap BUT your stuck on Roads and I want the option to go off road and forest trails. The mono-wheeled trailer will go through anything your handle bars can fit. I would add either Muffin Brand solid tires or tire repair kit and tubes all with slime sealant in them. ALSO a 8-10 inch bolt cutter for any locks or chain link fencing I need to pass through. Walking with that bolt cutter would be harsh as they are heavy.





  • Anony Mee
    12/11/2019 at 8:29 PM
    The Walking Dead (Level 3 Preparedness)

    Out here on the dead end road we have a few who are medically dependent, and a few who are the other sort of drug dependent. A Level 3 event will probably not be survivable for either group. Some of these folks are alone. Makes me think of the scene in The Stand where folks are clearing houses of bodies. Have laid in some Tyvek suits, nitrile gloves, and face shields. May be needed for disposal, or dealing with contagion. Or should some places just be burned is they’ve been contaminated by decay? Want to keep exposure as limited as possible for the long haul.





  • DaisyK
    12/11/2019 at 8:24 PM
    Open Forum & Off-Topic Conversation

    Well, I finally got my Toshiba television and there are no instructions. I can't watch tv. When it comes on I just get a screen that advertises Hulu, Netflix, etc. No real tv. I called the cable company and the lady finally got my tv to work, but when I tried to use the menu button (to see if I could adjust the picture because it was not good), instead of the menu, I got that YouTube, Netflix screen again and not I can't get back to real tv. I called Toshiba and got a man who didn't speak English well enough to understand me. When I called back, I got a message that the wait time was 15 minutes. Finally hung up.





  • Anony Mee
    12/11/2019 at 8:19 PM
    Open Forum & Off-Topic Conversation

    Stand My Ground So sorry about your little friend. You take care of yourself and be safe.





  • Stand my Ground
    12/11/2019 at 8:10 PM
    The Walking Dead (Level 3 Preparedness)

    Anony Mee Ok, I did not know that, THANKS, I'll look it up. But, I probably won't change my MO much. Yea, It's snowing. 3" last night, decent melt today, but, now snowing,1/2 in and hour. Heavy wet snow, makes for a lot of compact snow and ice, for these IDIOTS to drive on. And, I gotta go to town tomorrow.!! One of my support dogs is failing, fast, so vet visit tomorrow. Gonna be damn hard on me, when she passes. I'm working on handling it, but, it's gonna be tough, I LOVE that little 9lbs of fur. She's never more than 3ft from me, and is a bed hog.





  • Anony Mee
    12/11/2019 at 7:56 PM
    The Walking Dead (Level 3 Preparedness)

    Hi Stand My Ground It’s a federal crime 18 USC 32, not a state one. Raining like crazy here today. Is that snow for you tonight?





  • CR
    12/11/2019 at 7:49 PM
    Open Forum & Off-Topic Conversation

    We are so close that we have to have 2A sanctuary counties.





  • Dennis
    12/11/2019 at 7:41 PM
    The Walking Dead (Level 3 Preparedness)

    A few threads back addressed the supposed advantage of living rural vs urban, to which I wholeheartedly agree. While I also agree that even rural dwellers will face threat from hungry neighbors, I feel that threat, at least early on in a serious meltdown, will come no where near that faced by urban and suburban environs. I also believe that by the time serious unrest reaches the more secluded, sparsely populated places, much of the "die off" will have already occurred and those left will be the tougher, more resourceful, and probably more dangerous. On the other side of the coin, in the days, weeks, and possibly months it takes for the "zombies, survivors, ravenous invaders" to reach our area, groups of neighbors will have seen the wisdom in assisting each other. Even more than they always have. Most everyone living within 100 miles of me are lifelong hunters. Guns are a integral part of their lives. Woods running, stalking, and ambushing game is second nature. They are used to being their own first responders. In good times law enforcement response averages an hour or longer. I do see local radio communication being a big plus. That's why I've been talking up CB radios to folks around me. Cheap, easy to store, easy to set up quickly. Even with limited range, a radio located every mile or so could relay messages and distress calls in minutes. Less, with a minimal amount of organization and discipline. The little FRS and GMRS radios will be indispensable for family and closer neighbors.





  • Joe c
    12/11/2019 at 7:34 PM
    The Walking Dead (Level 3 Preparedness)

    My take-away is this: We can prepare....for what? Any and all outcomes? We can sustain....for how long? We can fight...with what outcomes? We as individuals, as families, as communities, can and will strive. But to what extent? There is only one being that controls your fate. We can talk about survival and wonder, worry of such outcomes.... All we can do and what is required, is to fight the good fight. Prepare for those that may follow our beliefs of our Country, that follow our ideals WE are under continuous battles that fall victim, day by day, year after year. And by little means, small steps, maybe, we become the Victors. Lord willing





  • kevin
    12/11/2019 at 7:31 PM
    The Walking Dead (Level 3 Preparedness)

    the place we would be heading i have known the guy since grade school and we talk on the phone at least every other day he is one of my best friends and we have a pretty good sized suv so we a have a fair amount of room to carry stuff and i sure as hell aint gonna be walking all the way i have already plotted out diff ways to get there as i know this area like the back of my hand i drove for a living for some years i sure as hell WOULD NOT be taking express ways i have routes already plotted out in my head as for have supplies along the way im not so sure about that but its sure a good idea





  • hermit us
    12/11/2019 at 6:46 PM
    Open Forum & Off-Topic Conversation

    A while back I cautioned against the threat of growing monopolies. So, I am repeating what someone at the top of the control ladder said "Apple CEO Tim Cook says monopolies aren’t bad if they’re ‘not abused" How many people given absolute control will exercise restrain and promote ethical actions by their corporations or governments?





  • Stand my Ground
    12/11/2019 at 6:26 PM
    The Walking Dead (Level 3 Preparedness)

    AS far as I can research, In Washington State, there exists no RCW, or case law, on the books, that deals with aerial trespass over private property. Hence, If I see a drone over my private property, I will attempt to shoot it down. If, I and the owner, have issues, if he's on my property, he'll be asked to leave, just once, then, I will feel scared for my life, and the results will vary. I probably won't shoot him, unless he decides to go the lethal force way, as I am always armed, always. If he's on public property, I'm just gonna ignore him, and walk away. He'll call the cops, and it's anyone guess, what happens next. Private property, is just that, "PRIVATE", I don't want a drone spying on me, or filming my family, or my place. I will feel threaten, and I will deal with the threat, I will shoot it down.





  • Stand my Ground
    12/11/2019 at 5:49 PM
    Open Forum & Off-Topic Conversation

    Joe c Hey bud, I was gonna give you a shout out, to see how ya doing, broken ribs and all. You gettin by? Any improvement yet? Able to go huntin. Getin a nice buck, sure makes a guy feel better. I've never in my life took a step backwards.Always have, Stand my Ground. I can be a tough guy to deal with, when I think I'm right. But,? I'm gettin tired, physically and mentally. This was a very tough fight. I've been fighting since the 60s, full time since the late 80s, and I gettin tired. Nobody's listening anyway, so, I'm gettin to the conclusion, what happens, happens. My one voice has made no difference. Just caused me a ton of headaches. Is this IRS fight over? Don't know, they lost pretty badly, This decision cannot be appealed. They don't like having their ass handed to them an a plater, by a private citizen, so, I expect something else to come up. Wish I could say more, but I can't.





  • hermit us
    12/11/2019 at 5:38 PM
    Location & Security (Level 3 Preparedness)

    pinky I guarantee there are fake cameras out that most of the horde would not recognize - how do I know - ask any security person in a large retail organization. I think I am an average prepper and defender of my property with four cameras and one monitor. If you have dozens of active cameras, you can spend the rest of your life glued to several monitors around the clock. Better to live your life than to have fear make a prisoner out of you.





  • Joe c
    12/11/2019 at 5:28 PM
    Open Forum & Off-Topic Conversation

    Hey Stand! Was listening to Tom Petty. Reminds me of you: Well, I know what's right I got just one life In a world that keeps on pushin' me around But I'll stand my ground And I won't back down I won't back down) Hey, baby There ain't no easy way out (I won't back down) Hey, I Will stand my ground (I won't back down) And I won't back down (I won't back down) No, I won't back down





  • BoneIdle
    12/11/2019 at 5:26 PM
    The Walking Dead (Level 3 Preparedness)

    I think you might be forgetting the tenacity of the human survival instinct. The lower 48 states were populated by European settlers. They didn't drive to their destinations in motor cars, ride bicycles or ride horses or live stock. They walked. Walked thousands of miles often living off the land as they went. I propose that there will literally be thousands of zombies walking out of the cities in a survival mode. There wont be one or two turning up at your bolt hole - there will be thousands. The odd small group of marauders might be repelled but there are most likely to be huge groups and they are most likely to overcome your hide away. Either by direct assault at first or the age old method of siege. Your bolt hole needs to be invisible. Once you start defending your property the invisibility is moot. the marauders will know that here is a place that has something to hide and probably offer. You may have thousands of rounds of ammo but the invaders will have more plus patience.





  • Ken Jorgustin
    12/11/2019 at 5:16 PM
    Location & Security (Level 3 Preparedness)

    A big takeaway from your comment is this: "Most people don’t want to die. So you just have to make it appear to them that their chances at their successful continued existence unscathed is very unlikely." Most will move on to "easier prey". While there's perhaps the chance of an organized ambush, deterrence is a good thing. It will work for most. And that's a good thing.





  • Anony Mee
    12/11/2019 at 5:12 PM
    Location & Security (Level 3 Preparedness)

    Thinking about force multipliers. Seems to me the most effective force multiplier is to multiply your force. As NormlChuck recommends in Walking Dead comments develop a Mutual Assistance Group now. Or looking at it from another angle, location can be a good threat divider. Moving from city to suburbia to rural to very remote. Each of these relocations cuts immediate threats almost exponentially. Am on the cusp between rural and remote. Although currently living alone, except for the menagerie, MAG consists of 12 or so folks coming from various distances including close by here on the dead end road. Good location for a year’s wait, and laying in supplies as resources are available.





  • White Cracker
    12/11/2019 at 5:09 PM
    The Walking Dead (Level 3 Preparedness)

    Kevin Best bet is to create several caches. Think climate controlled storage lockers in small towns along your evac rout. Just a 5x5 locker ($35/mo.) will work. Take yourself a good crowbar along or any large rock will due. in most cases if we are in level 3, smashing in a window to get into an abandoned storage building (hopefully) will be no biggie. Get yourself a crappy / ugly sh_t-stained couch dump it in the unit. Then gut it and stash your supplies in there by concealing your cache within the storage locker. Do this in several locations Cache A B C D... etc. Get yourself a really good pad lock that is cut resistant. Yes your cache can be raided and stolen but it still gives you a fighting chance vs. just your wanker in your hands. This will help you get to where you are going and also give you numerous resupply options in your AO. Transport - 50 miles on a Bicycle can be covered in 1 day. keeping your bo bags to 20lbs would be best while on a bike.





  • pinky
    12/11/2019 at 4:53 PM
    Location & Security (Level 3 Preparedness)

    I agree that you can't be "gray" and be rural unless you own a square mile and have natural barriers. Then no one knows what a $500 drone and Google maps are. People figure stuff out. And the ones that can't you don't need to worry about. Most people don't want to die. So you just have to make it appear to them that their chances at their successful continued existence unscathed is very unlikely. Don't use fake cameras. Anyone that would notice a camera can spot a bad fake camera. By the time you go through the effort and cost of putting in a passable fake camera you could out in a real one. Fake ones just tell people that you have stuff worth stealing and it is easy to do. If possible, mount all cameras above 12' from the ground. Few people look up. Even fewer people look up more than 10'. Plus if the cameras are mounted high they are more difficult to tamper with and they are less probe to glare/starburst.





  • Jabba
    12/11/2019 at 4:45 PM
    The Walking Dead (Level 3 Preparedness)

    Kevin, I was in the same boat. If you live in the city I wouldn't be concerned with 1 years worth of supplies, you'll just be feeding the zombies. You couldn't possibly bug out with all those supplies, way too much stuff. We lived in Rochester for years and moved out 5 yrs ago. I was prepped to bug out (or so I thought). We are closing in on 1 years worth of supplies, now. There are many things to work out first, before you bug out. 1. 50 miles is a lot on foot. It can be done, but even if you can do 10mi. a day, that's 5 days on the road. During a weekend in the summer. Take your BOB and hike with it along the road. You'll see what I mean. That is a lot of food and water on your back. Do you have a bike and/or hand trailer/wagon, if the roads are blocked? Work smarter, not harder. 2. Think of as many routes as you could possible think of, to get out of the city (skip the highways). Rail roads, utility trails, all possible routes. 3. Where you are bugging out to: Are they preppers? 4. Do they know you are coming? Do they want you to come? 5. If they are ok with you being there, do you have any food/supplies stashed there, so you aren't mooching off them? Just some things to consider...





  • NormlChuck
    12/11/2019 at 4:26 PM
    The Walking Dead (Level 3 Preparedness)

    You will have to do what you think is best.Going under ground really scares me. It won’t take much for the scavengers above ground if they discover your bunker to turn it into your tomb. If possible try to put together a mutual assistance group .Now.





  • Seminole Wind
    12/11/2019 at 4:22 PM
    The Walking Dead (Level 3 Preparedness)

    We have lived in both far Northern states where the weather/cold and snow is a threat and now we are back in our home state of Florida where stuff like Hurricanes can cause havoc. We are out on the edge of a rural/small town. Most of the people here are ranchers/farmers/ preppers on account of Hurricanes. We just got a new DVD at Wally World today called "The Reliant" which is a total Prepper/Christian movie. It is based on an economic collapse of the dollar and like the Walking Dead depicts a type 3 SHTF world.





  • Ken Jorgustin
    12/11/2019 at 4:18 PM
    The Walking Dead (Level 3 Preparedness)

    Thanks for the recap and the researched numbers. Now can anyone imagine Katrina, but EVERYWHERE? Or even half of everywhere? I don't want to think about it. But for level-3, it's best to think about it.





  • Modern Throwback
    12/11/2019 at 4:09 PM
    The Walking Dead (Level 3 Preparedness)

    The most recent large (natural) disaster that we can examine is Hurricane Katrina. In New Orleans alone, about 80% of the 1.3 million residents evacuated when the govt made announcements. These people were moved to other areas, many went to other states. For those who chose to stay, Mayor Nagin offered several shelters for people to seek refuge -- among them was the Louisiana Superdome and it housed about 25,000 people (maybe more because we all saw over-crowding). Evacuation notices were too slow for nursing homes to arrange for the mandated bus services. Many of the people in those nursing homes were left, unattended. Prisons and jails were abandoned because staff wanted to get to their own homes. how many prisoners died from being jailed and abandoned?? Tens of thousands of displaced residents were bussed to other areas (Texas, Kentucky, West Va, etc). The Katrina migration, after the disaster, is probably the largest migration in America in 50+ years. Here's an excerpt from Wikipedia: "Two weeks after the storm, more than half of the states were involved in providing shelter for evacuees. By four weeks after the storm, evacuees had been registered in all 50 states and in 18,700 zip codes—half of the nation's residential postal zones. Most evacuees had stayed within 250 miles (400 km), but 240,000 households went to Houston and other cities over 250 miles (400 km) away and another 60,000 households went over 750 miles (1,200 km) away." The Katrina death toll was around 1,800 and about 150 people still remain 'missing. Wikipedia states these figures: A 2008 report by the Disaster Medicine and Public Health Preparedness journal indicates that 966 deaths can be directly attributed to the storm in Louisiana, including out of state evacuees, and another 20 indirectly (such as firearm-related deaths and gas poisoning). Due to uncertain causes of death with 454 evacuees, an upper-bound of 1,440 is noted in the paper. A follow-up study by the Louisiana Department of Health & Hospitals determined that the storm was directly responsible for 1,170 fatalities in Louisiana. What we can take away from Hurricane Katrina is that the government systems were too slow to "act" on the possibility of this tropical system becoming a Category 4-5 Hurricane -- their delays cost lives. We also know that tens of thousands of people chose to shelter-in-place, for whatever reason. This decision cost lives. We saw that the temporary conditions at the Superdome and Convention Center were sub-human, and there were 10 deaths that occurred in that short time period (one was a homocide, one suicide, and one drug overdose). No doubt there was violence such as assaults, rapes, etc. My takeaway from Katrina was that the vast MAJORITY of disaster assistance activity was completely led by government systems of 'authority.' From the evacuation announcements, to the refuge center assignments, to the medical and rescue assistance, to food and water, and the basic care of almost every disaster victim -- all services and 'plans' came from somewhere within a government system. VERY FEW PEOPLE COULD FUNCTION INDEPENDENTLY. In general, people have been TRAINED to look for some type of authority figure or government Nanny to tell them what to do. This takes place in daily lives and during times of desperation/disaster. Katrina is a perfect example of how government officials failed because they were NOT well trained (or well versed) to handle a natural disaster. Herd management cost lives because a disaster was not managed as effectively as it could have been. And many people were not prepared to think or act independently with a Hurricane (in hurricane country!). After Katrina, many people became the walking dead -- except many were stranded dead, on their rooftops, or in their attics. They were WAITING for help. Without water, food, and any means to use the bathroom, the rooftop-dead were waiting for someone else, and they were putting every bit of "rescue" into the hands of someone else, someone they didn't even see or know! Once again, these people were helpless to help themselves





  • pinky
    12/11/2019 at 3:56 PM
    Location & Security (Level 3 Preparedness)

    I have largely switched to Reolink brand POE cameras. Probably have 40+ of them now. If they have a camera that is outdoor and not cellular I probably have it. If it is indoor and wireless and has PTZ I probably have it also. All of the POE cameras can be run off 12v also. All of the outdoor wireless cameras (that aren't oddball cellular/solar/vattery) run off 12v or with a wallwart transformer. I recommend the RLC410 and RLC420 in the 5MP format ($32 on sale). The 4MP are fine but you lose vertical pixels and the SDcard slot. The RLC511W ($65 on sale) is a nice wireless zoom camera. The C2 Pro ($55 on sale) is a nice indoor wireless PTZ camera. The NVR8 recorder is fine. I don't use the POE ports on it because they aren't bridged with the LAN port. I prefer to use Blue Iris and iSpy software. I do not use any of the "cloud" services or push notifications from the cameras or NVR. They are isolated from the Internet. I have tons of other cameras. Even antique X10 cameras (some people might remember them). Amcrest before they were Amcrest and were Foscam US. It has been a weird hobby of mine for decades. Best bang for your buck is probably Reolink or Hikvision. Quit buying Hikvision when they got caught up in the security issues. Tendelux makes decent 850nm IR illuminators that run on 12v. I use POE adapters to power them. I have tried other IR illuminators but I can't recommend them.





  • Ken Jorgustin
    12/11/2019 at 3:45 PM
    Open Forum & Off-Topic Conversation

    Sounds like good topic for an article. I've had various VPN's over the years. Maybe I'll work something up for tomorrow's article rather than providing a quick statement here...





  • tmcgyver
    12/11/2019 at 3:17 PM
    Location & Security (Level 3 Preparedness)

    I like hermit's idea of adding fake cameras to the real ones, but never use just fake ones. Case in point, a neighbor approached me last night. Actually, he's a bit of an addled indigent living off my neighbor, but who's counting... Anyway there was a power outage yesterday afternoon while I was at work. Neighbor guy approached me after work to tell me about it, and to tell me of some nefarious activity going on in the alley during the outage. He had to tell me you see, because the power was out and he 'knew' my cameras were down. Actually.... the cameras are on a robust UPS.... So I pulled the video and found the situation as described to me, to be utterly fictitious and fabricated.





  • NRP
    12/11/2019 at 3:06 PM
    Location & Security (Level 3 Preparedness)

    Minerjim; Ohhhh not to worry, this old boy's got 4 months, doing a company project for a friend of mine, but end of April...... Back to Propane though, I would also recommend having a cpl or few of 100 pounders around, just cause. Just read Ken's uplifting Article on Zombies..... having extra EVERYTHING may not be such a bad idea..... Remember the PM's Brass and Lead.





  • DJ5280
    12/11/2019 at 2:53 PM
    Location & Security (Level 3 Preparedness)

    I just read this. I am so not prepared as far as security is concerned. No 2+ preparedness for me. Rats. Back to square one.





  • Bluesman
    12/11/2019 at 2:43 PM
    The Walking Dead (Level 3 Preparedness)

    We are rural, nearest neighbors are 1/8 mile away. Most people on our dead end road are in the older age range, 60-90. There are couple of gardens and 5-6 couples in the 35-60 age group. Nearest larger (33,000) population is 45 miles away. It is difficult to comprehend a zombie scenario but it is definitely a subject for discussion with your spouse.I would not want to shoot a neighbor, or anyone for that matter. Better to discuss it now in a time of calm and try to develop some plan to work through a situation like that.





  • blackjack22
    12/11/2019 at 2:43 PM
    Open Forum & Off-Topic Conversation

    Ken, do you have any info on VPN's? Which ones are good/bad?





  • Bluesman
    12/11/2019 at 2:21 PM
    Location & Security (Level 3 Preparedness)

    hermit us, Good idea on the dummy security cameras. Some folks have a beware of dog sign but no dog and some folks store barbed wire in coils in the brush on the inside of their fence line and some store pebbles in tin cans on a wire . It helps to be creative. I know we cannot stop a determined thief , but we may be able to slow them down while we get our welcome committee ready .





  • kevin
    12/11/2019 at 1:31 PM
    The Walking Dead (Level 3 Preparedness)

    my girl friend and i live in a city FOR NOW and IF something like civil war breaks out we are bugging out asap i mean in the middle of the night if need be to a friends out in SMALLER town we live in west ny state so water aint a problem and its around 50 miles away from the city we are in now WOULD we survive nobody really knows for sure but we are a LOT better supplied than many thats for damn sure do we have enough to survive for a year or better nope hopefully we never have to find out





  • hermit us
    12/11/2019 at 1:29 PM
    Location & Security (Level 3 Preparedness)

    Going grey in a rural environment is almost impossible. Most of your neighbors know what crops you have growing, what animals you feed, where your water comes from, where you get your firewood, .... So, short of having a secret bunker or bugging out to a very remote location, I suggest you make security look as tough as possible - the obvious security that is. Add a bunch of dummy security cameras to you real system - ever walked through a store and looked at the cameras and wonder if they are watching you? No one wants to become an obvious target.





  • Touchofgrey
    12/11/2019 at 1:27 PM
    The Walking Dead (Level 3 Preparedness)

    Scary to contemplate indeed. Do you have any thoughts on abandoning your home and hiding out in a secret bunker on your property for 3-6 months after a SHTF event? I feel like defending a home against a potential onslaught would be impractical / unfeasible for most people. Perhaps making it appear that you bugged out, but actually being safely hidden underground and out of sight right on your own property until the coast is clear may be a good alternative.





  • Mrs. U
    12/11/2019 at 1:05 PM
    Open Forum & Off-Topic Conversation

    So true Plains, so true. Where do we get our electric? Coal, Nuclear, Water Turbines or lets see, ahh Lightening perhaps. It is free right...…………..





  • Mrs. U
    12/11/2019 at 12:55 PM
    Open Forum & Off-Topic Conversation

    In todays 'instant' world I have found that kids shut you out after about 5 minutes. If possible get your point across in that time frame. Their idea that is so true. At least you know they were listening!





  • Ken Jorgustin
    12/11/2019 at 12:53 PM
    Location & Security (Level 3 Preparedness)

    @me, yes it would.





  • Mrs. U
    12/11/2019 at 12:50 PM
    Open Forum & Off-Topic Conversation

    Thumbs Up.





  • Bluesman
    12/11/2019 at 12:24 PM
    Location & Security (Level 3 Preparedness)

    Regarding the "gray man"comments, There are obviously different shades of gray. I know we cannot be invisible but we can be as low profile as possible. People see that we have a large garden and a small orchard, we cannot hide it . We do try to shield it from the road by planting trees and shrubs. We never say how many quarts we can, never. I cringe when I hear folks brag about how many quarts of beans or peaches they have canned and put aside. People listen and remember things. Security of our property is our main concern when things go over the edge.We cannot guard 24/7 . We try to know our neighbors as best we can and build relationships.





  • Minerjim
    12/11/2019 at 12:22 PM
    Location & Security (Level 3 Preparedness)

    NRP, Ah, you see you have nicer folks across the border from DRO, give seniors a discount. Yup, I could have gotten a good rental price on an above ground tank too, but Italian DW and I decided we wanted a big buried tank out of view. It works for OPSEC in our area. Points taken on life and responsibility if you own your own below ground tank. That's why I recommend that everyone install sacrificial electrodes when they have a below ground tank installed. that will keep corrosion away, and our new local supplier will do an electrode test every year for us to make sure they are still protecting the tank. Likely ours will last 20-25 years in our area, maybe more. Could not find FRP tank anywhere around, likely it would be very pricey. Who knows, it might be cheaper for some in their area. I just gave the info I did so that CA_X2B would have a starting point. Glad you chimed in, was beginning to wonder where you were.(likely strapped to that "last project" before you retire. Take a breathe Ol' Son. You don't want to jamb your neck when you stop to retire, ya' want to just wanna "slide" into home plate gentle like.)





  • Bluesman
    12/11/2019 at 11:56 AM
    Open Forum & Off-Topic Conversation

    Our "side" needs loud voices to counter the socialist extremists . Most of us do not have the volume to do it as Limbaugh and others do.





  • Paleo
    12/11/2019 at 11:42 AM
    Location & Security (Level 3 Preparedness)

    Underground storage tank considerations. Ground water level - tanks can become bouyant and float out of the ground. Concrete deadmen with fiberglass straps can compensate for this. Tanks are not static in the ground, they expand and contract with temperature. This will scratch the protective layer on the outside of the tank and cause corrosion (about 5 years where I am). Electrodes may help. The tank can be periodcally tested and zinc packs placed to extend the life of the tank. If anone is thinking of storing gas or fuel oil underground, fiberglass tanks are the way to go. A leaking UST is a very expensive clean up.





  • me
    12/11/2019 at 11:30 AM
    Location & Security (Level 3 Preparedness)

    Just my 2 cents worth but wouldn't using an IR illuminator be like shining a flashlight that says here I am to anyone else with NV who has their illuminator turned off? Really don't know very much about it except for the ones we used 50 years ago. Water buffaloes were what we saw most.





  • Ken Jorgustin
    12/11/2019 at 11:07 AM
    Open Forum & Off-Topic Conversation

    That's kind of you. Thanks for making the effort!





  • me
    12/11/2019 at 10:56 AM
    Open Forum & Off-Topic Conversation

    Good to know as sometimes I put stuff in my cart and don't buy immediately. In the future I will delete and re-shop before purchasing.





  • Antique Collector-ACDH
    12/11/2019 at 10:41 AM
    Open Forum & Off-Topic Conversation

    SMG Pump FIST, as the golfers do when they sink the ball into the hole. HOLE IN ONE!!! yahhhh. Awesome.





  • NRP
    12/11/2019 at 10:37 AM
    Location & Security (Level 3 Preparedness)

    minerjim and all about Propane Tank Rental; I have been with the same Propane Co for probably 25 years. And yes I have moved 3 times in that time. Do your homework, find the least expensive Propane Cost to begin with, 99% of the time NOT one of those nation wide Co's. I did talk with them recently about buying a tank..... First question.. How old are you. "well NRP, as soon as you hit 65 the tank rental goes from $75 per year to $1. Senior Discount kicks in" AND you get a 10% further discount on fuel. Also remember you do the maintenance on the tank if you own it. Yes the Valve can go bad and drain the tank. Talk to your supplier, ya just never know. And no you cannot "rent" an underground tank.





  • poorman
    12/11/2019 at 9:40 AM
    Location & Security (Level 3 Preparedness)

    Something to think about is how to keep any insulin you have fresh also. I no longer need to do injectable insulin ( I am type 2 ) but when I did I kept a cooler that was designed to plug into a 12 volt system so I could use a deep cycle battery and small solar charger to keep it at the 40 degrees it needs to be for storage





  • poorman
    12/11/2019 at 9:35 AM
    Location & Security (Level 3 Preparedness)

    Just my opinion but I would spend some time in that small town getting to know other people as well as your friend. You never know what can happen to them and small town people are NOT going to be friendly to strangers in this type of situation. Spend some time at the local restaurants and feed stores meeting people. Go to the local church even if its not your faith. get to the point you are not a stranger





  • Ken Jorgustin
    12/11/2019 at 9:25 AM
    Open Forum & Off-Topic Conversation

    @LP, Yes. The amzn links that I put up, all have a unique identifier to my amzn associates account - so I get commission (at not extra cost to the buyer) if purchased within 24 hours (though it goes away if you click and purchase instead on another website with an amzn link during that 24 hr period). Thanks.





  • Lonely Peanut
    12/11/2019 at 9:07 AM
    Open Forum & Off-Topic Conversation

    Ken, I know you have the link at the bottom of the page to go to Amazon to start my shopping, but what happens when you put up a link to a certain item. If I click on the link, do you still get credit for the purchase?





  • Plainsmedic
    12/11/2019 at 9:00 AM
    Open Forum & Off-Topic Conversation

    Minerjim, I haven't purchased solar panels lately. Several years back, $1.00 per watt was a good price. Hopefully, things are cheaper now. I'm sure Ken has several suppliers for solar stuff. Solar is not hard and you'll have no problems with it (diy). If ya have access to wire, even used will work, gather it. As ya know, dc takes big wire, to avoid losses. My main suggestion for solar panels, buy a common size panel. 100watt is fairly common. It is best to match what ya have, if ya decide to get more panels. I have 12vdc system(s) because I put it together slowly and added panels when $$ was available. 24vdc is better, 48vdc is better yet. Good luck!





  • FinallyOuttaCA
    12/11/2019 at 8:52 AM
    Location & Security (Level 3 Preparedness)

    pinky, Can you recommend any of the security camera systems you use, or pros and cons of those you have had experience with? There are a couple of us on this site looking to find decent security camera coverage for our properties. Initial cost is, of course, expensive, but have you found something that does not require a monthly "cloud storage" contract/plan? Ability to see what's going on from inside your home? Wired or Wi-fi? Camera power (electric/solar/?) requirements? Thanks!





  • Ken Jorgustin
    12/11/2019 at 8:39 AM
    Location & Security (Level 3 Preparedness)

    Related: Security Against The Unprepared





  • Modern Throwback
    12/11/2019 at 7:56 AM
    Open Forum & Off-Topic Conversation

    Kudos to you Stand! So much for "Don't Tread On Me" -- but at least you are the Victor!





  • Modern Throwback
    12/11/2019 at 7:55 AM
    Open Forum & Off-Topic Conversation

    chevy, I heard about 20 minutes of his show a few times during the past week. He is becoming more and more outspoken. He no longer measures his every word. He doesn't use his typical cautionary methods, and says over and over again, "These people are nuts!" Rush would not have said that 8 years ago. Yesterday, I heard Rush say that Schiff is a liar and Nancy is downright crazy yesterday. I don't believe that Rush is 'acting' or part of the theatrics to confuse or betray people -- Rush sees what WE see. Thankfully Rush realizes the power of his audience, and he knows that he can create a movement if, or when, he needs to. i am glad that he is speaking more freely because the days of "diplomacy" and "decorum" have ended.





  • pinky
    12/11/2019 at 7:35 AM
    Location & Security (Level 3 Preparedness)

    I have an old gen1 night vision setup. It is fine. In reality I am better off without it but I will not get rid of it. I am blessed with really good low light eyeballs. Like if there is any moon even with cloud cover I am fine to navigate. I know it is likely to fade as I get older as it already is way worse than it used to be. I went the other way and use cameras and IR illuminators for everything. I have 100% coverage of human face identification-quality realtime redundant motion-activated recording for at least 125' away from all the outbuildings and house. I have some areas that go out 300'. At night I am essentially covering 2 acres. During the day it is more like 4.5 acres. I have 3 different recording systems that overlap in 3 different buildings. Most of the cameras have SD cards in them also. My long term dream is to get coverage for a ten acre perimeter. So essentially a 660x660 box. It will be expensive. I also would like to record at a higher frame rate but so far I have found no value in going more than 2-4fps. I believe level 3 preparedness would have to require the ability to defend extensively through the end of your stored supplies, preferably with armor. Those that live to a level 3 event as described here are going to be of two types: those that are prepared like you and those that are experts at taking what others like you have prepared.





  • Mountain Trekker
    12/11/2019 at 2:47 AM
    Location & Security (Level 3 Preparedness)

    JM you are so right, I use to have a company owned 500 gal tank and had to buy my propane from them, so I bought a 1000 gal tank and now I can shop around and it's large enough to take me through the winter from summer rate to summer rate, it soon paid for itself. Most times the difference is 30 to 40 cents a gallon. Trekker Out





  • Mad Fab
    12/11/2019 at 1:53 AM
    Open Forum & Off-Topic Conversation

    Stand my Ground, Congrats on your win today!!! Hope it is just the beginning of all going your way! Nice Christmas present for ya, lol PEACE MadFab





  • Just Sayin'
    12/11/2019 at 1:25 AM
    Open Forum & Off-Topic Conversation

    Stand, That is great news!





  • Antique Collector
    12/10/2019 at 11:08 PM
    Location & Security (Level 3 Preparedness)

    Joe c You are probably sleeping when Dr. Walsh is on Coast to Coast. The pharmacist Dr. Ben Fuchs that works with Dr. Walsh spoke about those that are diabetic. As I recall he had rather interesting information which you might find informative. You can find his pages of medical knowledge using his name in the search parameters. Good luck, hope there is something there they may help you with your medical needs.





  • Kulafarmer
    12/10/2019 at 9:48 PM
    Open Forum & Off-Topic Conversation

    When they build an electric truck that can tow a goose neck with 18,000# of equipment on it up a steep grade thats at least 23 miles long at the speed limit or above and that can Go from zero to sixty in 18 seconds with the bed carrying a pallet of Portland or feed and if it is under 75k Ill think about it, Till then, ill stick with my super duty Power stroke Deisel F series trucks or Dodge heavy duty trucks, Yea, aint going to happen anyway





  • Kulafarmer
    12/10/2019 at 9:38 PM
    Open Forum & Off-Topic Conversation

    Ken, Like a kevlar supplier told me, Best thing to dois test it yourself, Make up the laminated blanks, take em to your range and do controlled testing, different distances, different thickness and combinations, its really the only way, The guy told me most manufacturers specks etc are proprietary info, other than their ratings and basic specs they will never reveal all of the engineering details, it would be pretty stupid to do that, spend perhaps millions testing and developing then give any old schmoe the blueprints just because they want it,,,,, Yea, not happening





  • Not so sure
    12/10/2019 at 9:37 PM
    Location & Security (Level 3 Preparedness)

    Regarding your Grey man theme, if you live in a rural farmhouse, it is obvious that you have your own water, septic and in my case animals and solar panels. You are already marked as a target. The only option you have not covered is automation for security. Keeping a 24/7 rotating watch is not practical for any small family and the logistics to support that is not practical. Security has to be augmented by animals (peacocks and dogs), and electronics. Boat radar intercept function works for long range to see vehicles and rifles. Six inch wave length tuned above ground clutter can see through corn stalks. Short range thermal can identify a human, but not the person. The radar also helps with storms. Hope this helps.





  • Kulafarmer
    12/10/2019 at 9:34 PM
    Open Forum & Off-Topic Conversation

    Thats why i say let em starve, and let em live in the dark too, This coming winter should do the trick





  • chevy
    12/10/2019 at 9:22 PM
    Open Forum & Off-Topic Conversation

    Modern T: brings to mind today's Rush Limbaugh show. I've listened to Rush for about 12 years now and I've never heard him say the things he said today. Not everything completely new to me, but to hear him, a big voice in media, say it was quite dramatic.





  • Calirefugee
    12/10/2019 at 8:32 PM
    Location & Security (Level 3 Preparedness)

    Response to Out Of The Box: regarding brand of night vision: These boys brought their own night vision with them and I believe it was gen 4. They barely let us touch it and definitely did not let us play with it. The mounting hardware was made by a company called A-Square, a company developed and run by an Army Colonel by name of Alphin. ( he was an engineering graduate of West Point some years ago. ) Good stuff to work with, very heavy duty and very tight tolerances. Gen 4 was not available for sale and still is not allowed for civilian use. Each NV scope cost several months worth of paychecks back then so...I never got into it myself. Good quality optics for daytime are expensive enough for me. There is another area to consider within the US: Night hunting in the Southeastern US and Texas using thermal vision scopes. This has been growing in popularity and there are some excellent U-tube videos out there explaining the use and limitations associated with each type of optic you are thinking of purchasing. I think I will stick with conventional preps in other areas because this technology tends to become cost prohibitive in short order.





  • Stand my Ground
    12/10/2019 at 7:40 PM
    Open Forum & Off-Topic Conversation

    tmcgyver Thanks for the SHOUT OUT. !! 6 months, 11 trips to federal court. 6 months of stress, no sleep, PTSD stress, 80 mile round trip, absolutely a ton of research and paperwork, time well spent, but I can think of better options. Yea, I'm the winner, right.?